Interesting concept to address the downsides of todays slack bikes. I'd put this on par with RevGrips for interesting tech with dubious and/or minor benefits to performance with relatively significant cost/complexity penalties.

@charleshazen5779

Жыл бұрын

The race series revgrips are a steal for the price. You. also have to factor the rebuildability into the price

@quban79

Жыл бұрын

nail, head

@Swodie_Jeetin

Жыл бұрын

How else will they convince doctors and lawyers that they need a new $5000 bike?

Can't say I've ever suffered "wheel flop" I'm not riding a chopper!

@hummer694life

Жыл бұрын

what's wrong with flop going dh? Helps with turning

@cancer8343

Жыл бұрын

I love wheel flop for trackstands. When wheel is turned 90deg it becomes super easy to balance and correct.

The main drawback is 110g added to the bike, more stuff that can break, more stuff to faff with. Benefits seems unknown yet.

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

The extra weight and complexity aren't great. But the potential benefits are interesting.

@user-rp2fe4rk4i

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf stop shilling

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Who's shilling? haha. Unique innovations that we say are interesting is far from saying "you have to buy this it's a must-have product!" We pride ourselves on being open-minded and having the ability to having our opinions change after we ride products. If we didn't we'd still be riding 26-inch wheeled bikes without suspension or dropper posts with inner tubes.

@TeamCykelhold

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf yep, I'd love to try it. Thanks for doing this vid, pretty interesting stuff. Maybe it's not the next greatest thing, but maybe it is. Who knows? :)

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

@@TeamCykelhold Yeah we're not totally convinced it'll be a new industry standard, but without trying weird stuff out, we'd be stuck in a rut.

Wonder whether a proper steering damper wouldn't have been a better solution but I guess it does address a slightly different issue.

@jokermtb

Жыл бұрын

an undamped spring is not a damper....as this system clearly shows.. I'll not bother

What type of rear hub does the spectral KIS equipped with?

Are you sure Canyon didn't just see a marketing opportunity for the space available in modern top tube voids?

Taking an idea from the moto world. It may have some benefit if you are doing some sustained high speed and really rough trails.

@_Jake.From.Statefarm_

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think it might help a few things in the air too where your wheel isn't planted. Whether it be whipping and bringing it back.

@janeblogs324

Жыл бұрын

Motorbikes do not run a sprung steerer, they run a damped steering damper.

@Swodie_Jeetin

Жыл бұрын

@@janeblogs324 the concept is exactly the same, regardless of the implementation

@_Jake.From.Statefarm_

Жыл бұрын

@@janeblogs324 Yeah we know that but a hydraulic damper would be too much for a mtb. It achieves the same thing for the forces needed and at a lighter weight, and it's adjustable. I'd prefer to see the adjustment on the bottom of the toptube and instead of a slider just a turn key... like a winding. Which is very doable..

@janeblogs324

Жыл бұрын

@@_Jake.From.Statefarm_ they do not do the same thing, this device literally does the OPPOSITE of a steering damper. KIS adds force to your steering all the time except straight ahead. Steering dampers removes force when steering quickly and doesn't remove force while steering slowly.

I was wondering what gap is canyon trying to fill in, untill I remember my experience on my propain tyee 29er and other bike I have ride on. No matter how slack was a specialized head angle (from old/new stump, old/new enduro, status) I was always feeling stable, lets say able to steer no hands. On my tyee I am unable even to leave the house when pushing the bike (one hand on saddle). Bars always fell to one side if I am not focused. I might seem crazy as this should be mostly question of head angle but I believe there is some magic behind it. KIS might be a solution. Whats your thaught on this pls. Tnx

Sweet. More mass added to my 35# carbon enduro bike. /s

When will it be available on a flight attendant EMTB?

Definitely looks interesting.

Interesting - just yesterday I had a crash on a trail I've ridden hundreds of times. As it's cold I was wearing thick winter gloves and they don't give the same feel or grip as my summer gloves. I think this contributed to the handlebar whipping out of one of my hands when the trail got a bit squiffy. Result - front wheel turned 90 degrees and I went over the bars! I've never had this happen before. Now, I know most people would say grip the bars harder and that probably would have helped but I wonder if something like this would have prevented this?

Can we completely turn the K.I.S. system off? But still have it to turn on whenever needed?

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

You can remove the tension from the system to the point that its influence is essentially zero, yes. 3 or 4mm hex key on the adjuster in the top tube.

Can you test how it does with whips? I see it having a pretty big impact there being that the bike will follow the bars and also on the landing if you land on your front wheel?

@TheDexDrive

Жыл бұрын

i guess an option is to go for more of a motowhip

@_Jake.From.Statefarm_

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDexDrive my favorite kind =) Goldstone and Iles does them so buttery.

When I was a kid we turned the wheel ourselves

It is 1 april?

I don't understand value other than slowing steering during high speeds. Can you do any contrasts? For example: are **track-stands easier or harder** to perform?? and Isnt the real issue: does it help one have **more natural body-english** ? Rake and Trail would need to change to compensate.. right? Is this of greater value on e-bikes? Or is it more of a heavy, slow handling, and DH bike thing?? Also, would you be likely to engage it during the downhills and turn it off on the climbs? I'm really just trying to expand on your final thoughts or summary. p.s. Loam Wolf does EXCELLENT videos and product reviews THANKS THANKS THANKS

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoy the channel and thank you for your questions! Theoretically there's the stability improvement for high speed scenarios yes. As well as aiding in reducing the effects of wheel flop and helping to keep the bike upright, which is only notable at low speeds such as when climbing (or trackstanding). And the third main benefit they're suggesting is the connection between front and rear wheels helping to keep each wheel in check in loose terrain. It'll apply equally to eMTB and regular bikes most likely. The climbs are arguably where it's most useful from what I've experienced so far. Yes, if a bike is designed around the system you'll likely see the geometry change to make the best use of it. It'll be interesting to see where this goes. In terms of natural body english...that'll really depend on the rider and how they adapt to it I'd imagine. It blended into the background and didn't really influence the way I was riding the bike, but like I mentioned a few times, it could have done with being more stiffly sprung for me.

@captnhuffy

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf Thank You. Very well explained.

Tl;dr, it’s a steering stabilizer.

@ZenoGy

Жыл бұрын

No damping to it either , just the cheapest possible spring . .

@coreyrowe5424

Жыл бұрын

yes it is .its amazing they take all the technology from motorcycles and then charge so much for these bikes

@janeblogs324

Жыл бұрын

@@coreyrowe5424 zero tech from motorbikes. This is a self centering spring that adds force to the steering. Motorbike steering dampers slow the steering the faster you try to steer (speed sensitive) it does not self center

Interesting to see how it will hold up to sweat going inside

@rodrigopages1054

Жыл бұрын

@Zangief ☭ you’d be amazed the places sweat gets into on bikes … and water during rainy days and or during washing

Seems like an expensive solution to a problem that doesnt exsist

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Does it need to solve a problem to be worthwhile?

@skinnyslide

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf for the most part yea

@captnhuffy

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf Yes. It always has to offer at least one improvement if it isnt free.

@parkinkevin

Жыл бұрын

@@skinnyslide Good point 🤣🤣🤣

@z33r0now3

Жыл бұрын

@@captnhuffy a solution to a problem and an improvement are not the same thing. Strange that I have to spell that out. Let’s judge inventions by their merit, but can’t do that with the moaning brigade.

Never mind this, when's the 2023 Norco Fluid FS full review coming out?

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Soonish, we're hoping for end of next week but still have a bit to film and mother nature isn't making it easy.

@hambo76

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf I'm really looking forward to it! I don't suppose you're testing an XXL too?

It could be just me missing it, but was there ever any picture or scene showing the entire bike?

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps not, but there's a few in the written review here - theloamwolf.com/2022/10/25/first-ride-and-release-k-i-s/

@slowridemtb4712

Жыл бұрын

@@TheLoamWolf Thanks! Keep up the good work!

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

whats next? a bike that never falls over?

Where is this in France looks mint ?

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

The area surrounding Nice 🤘🏼

on a longer slacker bike is it difficult or tiring to bring bike back to center? On a longer slacker bike is it easier to flop tire and bike? If so, maybe this helps... (?)

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the wheel flop effects are greater on a bike with a slacker head tube angle, so the system will help more. We may see the head angles of bikes using K.I.S. get very slack...

Interesting, great for both the pros and beginners

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

It sure is!

@finroddd

Жыл бұрын

and so simple

@Swodie_Jeetin

Жыл бұрын

Pros probably aren't going to accept the weight penalty for something they are already quite handy at dealing with. Plus if it (hypothetically) really works well it'll be outlawed by the sanctioning bodies

When you thought bikes were "ready". Could be interesting. Perhpas in future this could be integrated also to the Flight Attendant and it could then control the stiffness.

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

That would be super interesting.

Interesting. Kind of like a steering damper for dirt bikes.

So basically a type of steering damper as seen on superbikes and others for decades?

guess this answers the question "has modern bike geometry gone too far?" 🤣

Must be built into the headset! Like the concept but much more engineering needs to be done here.

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

It will be on prodution models (see the integration on the Canyon). The model you see externally is a demonstrator unit which allows for the system to be fitted to allow for quick turning on and off for comparison sake.

Looks like something my local shop won't be able to fix. I"ll pass.

They've been on motos for years and help. This is a very crude design and should be external working off the stem with easier adjustments on the fly.

@humzilla707

Жыл бұрын

@@parkinkevin I run a Scott's on my dirtbike, this is the stone age version. I doubt it would do anything on a dirtbike, sounds like it barely does anything on mtb.

@_Jake.From.Statefarm_

Жыл бұрын

@@humzilla707 I don't think it's supposed to be as strong as the steering damper on a moto. The forces and weight and extremely different. I can't really see it being dangerous though.. if anything it might help in certain situations and you'll never even notice it, which I guess is a plus. I see it this way, if it works well it shouldn't be a charged add on. It doesn't cost enough in parts to warrant any rise in price and if you can just turn off the system with an allen key, no harm no foul...

@jokermtb

Жыл бұрын

@@humzilla707 you could do the same thing with duct taping your handlebar stem to the head tube of the bike - with equally useless effect

Thanks for the video! Please tilt your gopro up, it's too much "stem cam".

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback, we do agree. Not easy to get the perfect angle with constantly changing bikes and terrain, will try harder! Also wanted to show the system in action somewhat.

Sounds like a bad idea to put a spring loaded force that'll effectively change the force required to move the bars X distance depending on the position of the bars. 'Stabilization' will almost 100% surely effectively be 'unpredictability' and 'inconsistency'. Not for me - leave the steering undamped and unsprung for perfect predictability.

Big Boab must have a sore hand with how much he uses it to talk.

Lol even my old stiga snowracer had this tech

@doyablola

Жыл бұрын

Except this must cost 500€ or something 😂

Can't see this catching on imo. Marketing depart I guess have something new to work with at least..lol

It just seems like they’re inventing stuff to continue to sell bikes.

@ricodvorsky3844

Жыл бұрын

yeah that's the entire bike industry. if they didn't try to invent stuff to sell bikes you would still be riding your first mtb

@z33r0now3

Жыл бұрын

You mean like any industry ever?

@janeblogs324

Жыл бұрын

Its called innovation. Maybe you should stop using wheels and knives if you want to go prehistoric

@HUKIT.

Жыл бұрын

@@janeblogs324 There is a huge difference between innovation and marketing gimmicks.

@janeblogs324

Жыл бұрын

@@HUKIT. feel free to link any other self centering device on any forked 2 wheel vehicle that you've seen. Since motorized electric scooters became popular our emergency rooms have had a 10 fold increase in injuries. It only takes a pinky finger of effort to steer onto full lock at any speed. There's no steering feedback unlike cars with caster

I ride a lot of technical low speed stuff on my hometrails in the alps. I mean this is not realy helpfull for my ridingstyle!?

Hmm!!!!!!!!

The real test is using it for a week, then swapping back to a regular bike. If it instantly feels like your confidence has changed you know its a winner/loser

I expect this is going to be annoying to repair

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

It's quite simple, but certainly isn't the easiest thing to access if it does happen to go wrong.

@jokermtb

Жыл бұрын

you can add a guitar tremolo whammy bar to it next week

@ronaldreaganhateaccount2839

Жыл бұрын

@@jokermtb haha what?

"Blends in to the background..." So it's useless xD

They should’ve given us a different KIS… Keep It Simple…. You wonder how people successfully traversed trails without this groundbreaking technology 😂

@ricodvorsky3844

Жыл бұрын

Well they are trying to innovate and without innovation there wouldn't be any mountainbikes. People said the same thing about dropper posts and look where that tech is at now...

@Acrore

Жыл бұрын

@@ricodvorsky3844 100% ill always have a dropper if im able to, love em and glad someone took the risk to invent it

@quban79

Жыл бұрын

@@ricodvorsky3844 did they though??

@ricodvorsky3844

Жыл бұрын

@@quban79 time will tell, maybe it truly is a groundbreaking system

@quban79

Жыл бұрын

@@ricodvorsky3844 this idea/ tech has been in the motocross world for years.. I'm sure canyon aren't the first bike manufacturers to dabble in it, dunno but seems like canyon are riding the motocross wave (piggybacking off the mullet) a little too hard.

I'm just not seeing the benefits of this and it was not clearly explained here. I am keenly aware of when my bars are not straight. I don't need a spring to tell me this.

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Not disagreeing with you, but can you tell when the bars are straight when you're struggling for grip on ultra-loose terrain? This is when the proposed benefit should come into play

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

@TheLoamWolf

Жыл бұрын

Some innovations don't make sense until you ride them. We're not sure about this one yet, but it has potential and we're excited to see where it goes.

@janeblogs324

Жыл бұрын

So you still use v brakes? Non clutched derailleurs? Threaded headsets? Stop being a monkey

@quban79

Жыл бұрын

@@janeblogs324 no, but I'm not buying products to solutions that don't exist either hey

@christiandruan

Жыл бұрын

@@janeblogs324 I've never once been on my bike and thought, hmmm this could steer better. A solution to a problem that doesn't exist. You're the monkey lol.

@janeblogs324

Жыл бұрын

@@christiandruan if you only drove a car with zero degrees of caster you would probably think "this is perfect, why would I need a solution to this" but in reality its extremely dangerous and mentally taxing to have to manually steer 100% of the time. If you tried 0-4° caster in a car you'd understand the zero feedback steering feeling, its like driving on ice with no feedback to the tyres grip levels + no automatic counter steer. Once canyon incorporates increasing the steering spring rate as the suspension loads their product will take over the entire market. This is how every 1950s onwards car is designed, its so intuitive to drive that even 5 year olds can drive a car with no practice.

We don't care about steering stabilization, we're freaks.

🎃

Canyon; pushing the envelope for "semi useful" mtb tech paired with aggressive marketing.

Bicycle innovation seems to mean taking something that already exists, applying it to a mountain bike, then acting like a genius inventor. This is just like dw link, an old technology that should never have received a new patent just because you hung it off a different vehicle.

Ehh, very janky looking. Try to fix handlebars in place and let it roll down a hill and then the same with freely turning bars…

Lol..this is just some gimmicky shit..

sooo....it really doesn't do ANYTHING, and it's effect is only really noticeable at really low speeds......I'll pass. At high speeds you're not even turning the handlebars..... At high speeds you're not even turning the handlebars.....

How about Keep it SIMPLE. No thanks.

@jokermtb

Жыл бұрын

Keep. IT. Stupid

Canyon, solving problems that don't exist by adding overly complex proprietary pieces to the inside of your bike that will be expensive and difficult to fix. No one asked for this. No one needs this. How dumb.

@jokermtb

Жыл бұрын

prolly the same guy who invented the Syntace Vro stem came up with this turd

What f#$king joke!!!!!