personally as a type 4, the action of moving away from the group almost feel like it is not within our control. In a sense it is as if the emotion called sadness or the feeling of rejection is guiding us towards that kind of anti social behavior even though deep down we want to do the opposite. What we want is for someone to notice that we are perhaps not feeling like ourselves at the moment and bring us back in the group because they want us to be in the group and that any emotions (especially sadness and melancholy) we are going through will not effect the way they treat us. I guess in a sense we want someone to be persistent in bringing us along even when we say we're not feeling it. Eeyore from Winnie the pooh is a great example. He feels deep shame for feeling sad and wants to sort out his melancholy because he feels like that energy will be a burden to be around, yet his friends still persist to be around him through his intense emotions. There's not a lot of people in our life that can handle the intense emotions we have and it can intimidate most people. For the people that can, we cherish them deeply for life.

@denisedaigrepont132

2 жыл бұрын

I identify with this so much…you couldn’t have said it better

@monicawoodwardcreative

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with wanting to be brought back in when being anti social, but only on occasion. I find I lean towards the need to remain separate, many times, to get back to a place (mentally) of wanting to be a part of the group. That’s my 5 wing in action for sure. However I always do want to be understood, even when I’m pushing away, which I get is a very hard thing for people to do. Your last two sentences are so true - the ones that can fully accept and “handle” us are rare and a saving grace that helps keep us 4s connected.

@Recep007

2 жыл бұрын

Ty

@KeepCalmandThrowStuff

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Personally, as a 4, if the invitation to come along doesn’t feel authentic, it doesn’t seem worth it. It doesn’t seem like it will be a true connection.

@munkami

11 ай бұрын

Excellently put. It can't be a rational decision and especially as time goes on and we learn that rejection comes when we're in an unhealthy emotional state. Its damage limitation. It's better that we have a good version of ourselves to bring to the table, especially as others are fast to judge us against their ideas of normal.

I think we’re trying to make connection by letting others know that we see their difference, but we love them anyways. I think 4s just want the same from others.

@greenlimabean

2 жыл бұрын

I point out people's uniqueness, their virtues, and offer my observations as comments as response to whatever they are saying, with smiles. They seem to hate it. I haven't learned to stay surface .

The part about seeing the beauty in everyone and broken things but not in myself really speaks to me. Thank you for helping me so much.

The most hurtful thing ever done to me as a 4 is to be compared (unfavourably) to someone else.

@giveme24hrs72

2 жыл бұрын

Yes I think that would be the worst. I don't consider myself as envious tho. But if I were compared to someone, that would hurt

@kaylaoliverthebohemianlife

2 жыл бұрын

Seriously! Hahaha 🤣

@amelian9677

2 жыл бұрын

Yep!

@greenlimabean

2 жыл бұрын

So boring to compare. Useless

I loved when you said that seeing the best in everybody is actually a gift. That really encouraged me as a four to celebrate that gift and use it for good instead of using to tear myself and others down. Loved the checklist -thanks!

Yea, "just having pizza together" isn't going to come anywhere close to the level of connection that 4s are after. It's entirely possible that 4s, as the most emotionally deep type in the enneagram, are wanting something that other people don't have the emotional capacity to provide. The sharing of these deep painful things is the sharing of what feels like the most "real" parts of ourselves. We are trying to see if someone will accept us in our authenticity, or if they will abandon us for our truth. I am fortunate enough to have experienced people accepting me at my worst. So I know that what we seek, while rare, is absolutely attainable. Its just kind of a "white whale" experience.

@greenlimabean

2 жыл бұрын

See the bad parts of me, the shameful, the obvious low, recognize that part in me with neautrality. meanwhile, focus on the good of me and respond to that. That is my dream of a person. You have experienced this?!

4w5 here. Why do I move away when I want to be accepted by others? I want to be accepted AS I AM, not just because I act like you. Do I seem moody? Care enough to ask me what’s going on. It’s not a trap, you just get all or nothing from me. Either I trust you or I don’t. Was it Marylin Monroe who said, “If you can’t handle me at my worst, then you don’t deserve me at my best.”? The idea of being blindsided in relationships terrifies me. And yes, I feel fatally flawed and I’m hard on myself. I’m just laying my cards on the table so you know what you’re dealing with. If you go running for the hills, well I’m glad I found out now, before I got attached. Offer the love first, and keep offering it. Be patient with us. We’re just scared and wounded. We respond to sustained effort. It seems so simple from my point of view, but I see your points. Approach us as you would a wild animal: move slowly and earn our trust. It’s not impossible.

I feel like the 4's tendency to push people away while longing for connection is often a preemptive strike. In a sense, we fear being rejected by others, so we try to reject them first by pretending like we're too different to share anything in common. We want connection, but find the humiliation of being rejected too painful to seek it out directly. So we play hard-to-get. If I reject you and you want nothing to do with me, fine, I didn't want to hang out with your anyway. But If I reject you and you still reach out to me, then there's a possibility for forming a genuine connection with someone, as opposed to merely being tolerated.

@greenlimabean

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a 4. I don't feel like i want to avoid rejection. I can handle rejection. I push people away for another reason. Hmm, what? I'm so in the habit if being feeling alone. I like it. That and I believe no one has the ability to connect with me and to accept my faults. see the bad in me and focus on the good. I want someone to do that, and I think no one can .

@kackareznickova5431

Жыл бұрын

Yes!! That's exactly what I do!!

@momentmal5248

10 ай бұрын

This is what I do. Before I knew about the enneagram my statement at the beginning of a relationship was always…I don’t NEED you. I think it was preparing myself in the case of rejection. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I’ve only been able to see this recently.

@mariamkokaia2093

9 ай бұрын

This is so accurate... Can't add no more. But I am working on myself everyday to hold positive attitude towards people, no matter I like them or not. I say no to judging, focusing on how different they are from me. That enables me to feel connected. What I found out is that if I feel connected on surface level on a daily bases with my co-workers , lets say, I have less craving of intimate relationships. I don't feel isolated, as an outsider and it is less painful for me to exist. Yes, it requires from me an effort to be present with people, to be engaged with them but overall I feel better about myself. In the end I had to gave up the idea that I am different thats why I keep distance with them... Truth is even if you deep down believe you think differently you can still find common issues, common interest with people to have a small talk and stay connected. Because, well feeling isolated is not good for your mental health at all.

About the moving in close, I believe the subtype effects that a lot. I would imagine a social 4, absolutely would move in on people in their social sphere with desirable traits. I don't do that. But I'm a sexual 4, so I have learned to watch out for falling in love with the idea of a man who has traits that I wish I had in myself... in my youth I was absolutely prone to unrequited love and pining that was based more in wanting to have someone that validated me, by proxy. The thought that "he is charming/talented/intelligent, if I can get him to love me then I will have proven I am lovable and good."

@christinadonnelly781

2 жыл бұрын

I was going to say as a self preservation 4 I would never move on close to someone who is popular. I would distance myself and most likely convince myself that anyone that is popular in that way is likely not being true to themselves because pleasing that many people means you are trying to be pleasing by changing yourself somewhat and being even associated with that would be off putting for a self preservation 4. So we would likely in an unhealthy state ( or as a child in my case) deem it an unworthy endeavor to try to get to understand a popular group dynamic.

Having envy doesn't mean I want others to fail. We can both have the same things. That doesn't mean I want to STEAL from you. I just may want what you have.

I think the 4-logic of seeking connection by presenting themselves in ways that read as the opposite is this underlying hope: "I want to be an authentic me but don't know how to be that with others, so now I try to present myself in every ugly detail. Then, perhaps, someone will recognize my wreckage and know how to lead me in a better direction." So - kind of doing it almost to show where on the map they are and hoping someone will send them directions to where they are - or even better, come and pick them up. Often, though, it presents to others like arrogance and "diva" attitude and it's just too hard to figure out what to do. The 4 senses this as rejection and then they might lash out. "Hey, here I was giving you my gift of transparency and you just react by shutting down completely so I get less than nothing in return, so help yourself, I'm done with you." I get that they would benefit from not needing to always seek "true, authentic" connection. On the other hand, others might feel help in knowing that it's not really a demand that others be perfect - sometimes even the opposite: "please show me your flaws so that I can relax better in my own". Learning to see beauty in ourselves is demanding to a 4 because the beauty in the good things is too easy - the real beauty is seeing the beauty in the flaws, and they will see the beauty in others showing their flaws. But of course, that must be a challenge for a 7, to engage in that "celebrating failure" game 😄

I can only speak for myself (4w5) but I long for deep connection, not just any type of superficial connection. To become healthy, I had to seek that deep connection with my higher self and with God. I stopped looking for it with people and learned to accept what they have to offer, even if it feels a bit shallow sometimes.

Not feeling melancholic is like trying to write with your non-dominant hand. It can be done, but you have to give it constant focus (feels unnatural). Opinion from a 4w5

I heard an interview with Christine Yi Suh last night on living her life as a four that had disintegrated into an unhealthy 2. Neurotically caretaking everyone in her church because that was what her church/culture expected of her. She wanted to be a pastor but it was unheard of for a woman to be a pastor in her Korean culture. This hit a nerve for me - living my life as a disintegrated 2 because it was what my dad/southern culture expected and valued, and I desperately wanted him to remember how much he loved me as a little girl before the courts forced me and my sister to live with my mother who was mentally I’ll and an addict. I was desperate for him to rescue me. I can see clearly now how we can misidentify with a type for so many years. I finally feel understood and seen for the first time in 50 years.

You are really good at analyzing people and putting it in words that really speak to our soul. Thank you for all that you do. You are making a real difference. What I have found is that I can give what I am seeking to world. If I am seeking total acceptance and love, instead of waiting for others to give me (many don't know how and it's unfair to expect this of people who are struggling with their own issues and vices) I give it to others without expecting anything back. This makes me happy as a 4.

Tom, I just wanted to say you make amazing video's. Your work is really appreciated and the way you explain is really clear. Thanks!

That’s so cute Madison is writing songs!!!! ❤️

This is me. It hurts so badly though, because I realize that nothing is wrong and that I only FEEL like something is wrong, but that doesn’t bring me comfort it only makes me angry that I’m feeling something that isn’t actually happening.

Thank you so much Dr Tom! This is so very accurate🕊️🙏🏼

Envy isn't worrying about fitting in - Type 4s are frustration types + withdrawn types - frustrated and withdrawn, that means they're frustrated with others and seek to separate themselves from others. Being an image they, they want their separateness known, seen, and acknowledged. That's very different from 'wanting to be understood', and they certainly don't want to fit in. Fitting in would be evidence against their uniqueness - 4s will often intentionally alienate others so they don't fit in which reinforces the sense of being unique and individualistic to type 4. envy is not looking to what others have and feeling 'envious' in the colloquial sense. it's a deep frustration that things aren't deep enough, that the world is shallow and artificial. Think about the images types, with 3, in particular, most exemplifying the drive to be valuable - 3s are attachment types, they seek to embody what's valuable to be seen as valuable. 4s are frustration types, they're frustrated with how people create value and what others value. Their whole personality is setting themselves apart from what others value - 4s often don't know exactly how they are, but they know what they are definitely not. They define themselves out of rejecting the mundane. the worrying what others think and wanting to fit in - that's an attachment type (9-3-6) issue. people confuse attachment types with 4s all the time. Chestnut's "a child named 4" is describing 9. So many people who go through her work or the narrative tradition's work who think they're 4s are actually 9s. People trivialize how complex, dramatic, and creative 9s are, so when someone's stormy and experiencing inner conflict, "oh they must be a 4". here's an article on the topic: www.johnluckovich.com/articles/the-confusion-of-type-nine-amp-type-four-or-nota4

@karissahammond4587

3 ай бұрын

I'm still reading and thinking about that article--lots in it. However, I think I can say it's one of the most useful 9 vs 4 things I've ever run across, and I think Chestnut's work really did confuse me (I think she does so much good writing too though!) Thanks for sharing!

Very helpful

Well this just changed my day 😌

i am pretty sure I am a four, and i wouldn't blame my parents more than my childhood friend i grew up with since before kindergarten who randomly abandoned me and payed my other friends to hang out with him over me

Envy isn't my gig. But I swear I'm the center of the world. I'm kinda paralyzed and struggling at 40 yrs old Pain doesn't register or something the world could should would have been my oyster. This is the deepest connection I've had in years.

Maaaaan, dude. This one was hard to watch. I revisit all your videos, and this one had moments where I felt sooo called out. I know it's not your fault, but damn. Hearing how a 7 might perceive me just brought up all these memories of growing up with my 3 father, 7 sister, and 7 mother. Feel like I got the wind knocked out of me.

@JonasAnandaKristiansson

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this series and all your videos! You continously help this 2 love herself, and love her 4 spouse better. Your insight has helped so much!

Never clicked on a notification faster lol

I am a 4w5 and as a young child, I was very melancholic and already felt separate from family members. I felt a longing and a need to connect with someone on a deep emotional level. Isolating from the group was a coping mechanism because the loneliness I felt while trying to "fit in" with the group was unbearable. As an adult, I can look back and relate a bit with my inner child, with the knowledge that this ingrained need for connection can be achieved. Sharing our dark secrets or "ugliness" is a way to finally be able to connect with someone on an intimate emotional level, not to scare anyone away and be REJECTED again and again. Now I know that I am in a constant search for authentic and intimate relationships. As long as I have a few people in my life with whom I can share my inner world I can be satisfied. I believe I have found peace and joy in practicing non-attachment.

42:52 checklist

Thanks once again for a great video - for me, it isn't about being 'ordinary', as a child it was about being 'invisible'.... and thus disconnected from my care-givers. The' new child' was my parents 'ministry'. My mom shared things with me that confirmed how their focus changed the year I was born. From a regular family unit - we became a family in a glass house with their focus on the community. I was the born as this changed and felt this from the time of my birth. So - just a little view from another 4!

50:30 I'm a sunny sp 4w5. The way you swallowed the pill of "you're familiar with the experience of sadness, no thank you *drinks last sip of water".

@keencrookston

Жыл бұрын

You said you're an enfp, I am an infp.

@keencrookston

Жыл бұрын

I love you're videos, thank you Tom, I would really enjoy chatting with you sometime.

I think you'll also find that most fours are introverted, deep, intense, odd. And being told we're weird for most of our lives makes it much harder to just casually meet up with people. It takes alot of work and a vwry healthy state to do that. That's why friendships can't always last too long. Most people think nothing of going for pizza or coffee but I think 4s want something deeper and more rewarding than that. As a 7 person, and a 7 mother, I think it is hard to repate to the depths and complexities of fours.

I love that you have difficulties with 4 and say all the dark stuff we dont want to hear about ourselves and, at the same time, we love hearing hahah. Hope we get better with all this info

I really dont want to anybody to fail. I always So happy for my friends when something good happens to Them. I think this is maybe only in very very unhealthy Fours. So we shouldnt think it is for All fours.

35:06 This helps me not only understand myself as a 4w5 but also other 4's and how to relate to them! 😅

@twlahue

3 ай бұрын

Great

The longing for the illumination of God's love within, which I became blind to. So trying to artificially create the appearance of illumination on the outside. Searching outwards instead of turning my attention inwards.

Thank you for your empathy, compassion and talking sense into me :)

This is straight up hard to listen to. But true.

Maybe 4s thrive when others remind them of what's so good about them, why you're liked and accepted and cherished. Being with a 3w4, they are probably the best at doing that for us. And we need alot of it.

There’s a little George Carlin in your comedic delivery. Love your content!!!

@twlahue

6 ай бұрын

Wow, thanks!

In my case, my parents divorced when I was four. Then my Dad remarried a widow with four children. I guess that is similar to the “new baby” example.

4w5 here, t=22:40, Thats so weird! the Juice is in the contrast! yeah its easy to find connection in similarity, and it usefull to have common ground so that you're speaking the same language but, the fun and the learning, the expansion, is in seeing and understanding the difference, the uniquness of the individual which one is engaging with! "oh you like chocolate? yeah me too. ( and eveyone else). Oh you DON'T like cholate?? thats so interesting! please tell me more!"

@bevansieber7133

Жыл бұрын

35:00 and if they're still by my side after that, i can know that They're authentic in their love! (they dont run away but come closer, they see my pain and empathise with it, they *bother* to tell me 'oh you're not so horible' - but dont gloss over the negitive trait - accept that negitive trait! wowzer! they legit! maybe they can actually care about lil' ol' me) telling of the negitve trait is honesty - authenticity ( albeit onesided) "others only talk about their positives - a unique thing about me is my brutal honesty" (exageration for emphasis) ex-girlfriend: " you're too honest for your own good sometimes" me: "would you prefect i hide it" her: "well no...but..."

@ZeniaLarsen

Жыл бұрын

True! I have a good friend who really won me over one day when he told me how she just really loves rain. I just never imagined that people could enjoy rain but now, when cursing the rain, I think about her, and then I find myself appreciating the situation even more. There's power in contrasts.

I know this is old. Hopefully nobody sees it. But I’m just writing my thoughts on being different and still longing for connection. I think if there is a good group, you have different roles. You might have a good medic, someone who heals and keeps everyone at the top of their game. A defender, someone who deflects incoming blows. And an attacker, someone who can fish out some points, or damage, and give your group a win, but with all these important roles, if I’m not fulfilling my own unique role in the group…then what good am I? So if the group already has a healer, a hero, a thinker, then where do I fit?

@FlipYourCarIntoTheTornado

10 ай бұрын

Those are pretty narrow roles. Maybe you don't need to fulfill a specific role, but you just being you will be able to add interesting insights/ provide good company without needing to label yourself or others with specific "roles" within the group. I think you could be pre emptively cutting yourself off from connections by thinking "oh this role is already taken", when most people don't even think like that. It's not like the group will be like "Um sorry, we already have a 'medic', bye", like people literally don't think that way and it's an overly simplistic way to view group dynamics and human interactions in general. People are so much more than one trait

I've always identified more as type 9, but this video really resonated with me. Some of the things that have usually made me think I'm not a 4 are not feeling comfortable showing emotions in front of others (unless I'm especially close to that person) being highly agreeable like a 9 would be, and being able to see everybody's perspective not just my own. I definitely have a huge inner critic that 4s have, and compare myself negatively to everybody else, but I'm not sure if that's actually just depression lol. I usually try to stay positive, which seems more 9-like, but I've always had a grass is greener mentality where I have a more positive view of other people and their stories/situations but feeling shame around my own. I also introspect a lot more than most people, and have always had this nagging question about who I really am. Especially when I was a bit younger, I purposely wore clothes that weren't very fashionable, because it felt more authentic and didn't want to blend in with all the other girls. I also didn't really like makeup, partly because I didn't like the idea of fakeness and looking like everyone else BUT also because I was just unmotivated to put in much effort (more 9-like). But I usually haven't gone out seeking big emotions, like watching a bunch of sad movies or listening to sad music all the time, but very occasionally the situation calls for it. I spend more time watching sitcoms and listening to calming relaxing music, which I think a 9 would do.

23:08 yes

Thank you, Tom for pointing out all the important points, trully appreicate the video!!

Envy counts others’ blessings rather than your own. 4s had a deep connection with the entire world.

@ashleyching7894

2 жыл бұрын

Felt unimportant, alone, and ordinary

@ashleyching7894

2 жыл бұрын

Got used to feeling sad, melancholic

@ashleyching7894

2 жыл бұрын

Comfort that other people feel sad too

@ashleyching7894

2 жыл бұрын

4s long for connection.

@ashleyching7894

2 жыл бұрын

4s feel worthy for being rescued For being pursued

Dude, you missed that by a country mile. First, you sound not so mildly hostile to this type. Perhaps prejudicially hostile. I could swear the envy is yours. Second, you appear to reduce the artistic impulse to a confused emotional response, from a misinterpretation of an innocuous, well meaning upbringing. Why is it that wickedness never enters your sketches? Artistic output is literally the driving force of cultural evolution, the beauty, truth, and goodness humanity exhibits, and the best part of a legacy a society pays forward to its children. Third, if I disagree with your enneagram, in your mind i affirm it. If I agree with it i also affirm it. Now that is fundamentally problematic in the most basic and dangerous of ways.

This is accurate but most of it was solved when I was diagnosed adhd and autistic and it was affirmed that my brain is neurologically different than most of the population, I wasn’t faking it as purely a psychological complex. However, these personality traps still occur so thank you.

Wow, this video made me realize that I’m quite a healthy type 4! Definitely because I started going to an amazing therapist when I was still young and I stuck at it for a decade. Interestingly, I WAS the literal “new baby” of my family. The problem is that I was born years after all my siblings were and my parents were already old. I was truly just born for their entertainment because they got bored with just three kids. I mean, honestly. That is the situation. My emotional needs were severely undermet which was my early on “loss” that you describe.

Oh my heck I’m a 4. Or at least I have a very strong 4 wing or subtype. 😂😂 So much of this hit home in so many ways.

I'm 3 days into finding out I AM a 4 and finding this brilliant and your presenting of it fabulous. I'm glad I use a little humor in my personal growth, having chuckled out loud a few times. Thank you Dr. Tom!!!

This was great. Thank you so much.

Watching this just because of how many 4s there are in my life lol

Im always searching for the wrong in me… I admit it. Im a 4 sp.

Really enjoyed this video. Looking forward to watching it through again. Not sure I agree with the part about wanting others to fail going hand in hand with envy, this seems more of a 3 trait, as a 4 I think we tend to keep it in the arena of our own yearning to be more.

Enduring is a good quality to have. So many people want to run when things get too intense. The last few years have been hard for everyone to push through and endure. Enduring was my word for 2022. Great information! Thank you for sharing!

Im up next, cant wait!😁

great video!

Wow, this is why I take comfort watching the news 👁

I'm in tears. Thank you ❤️

When intuitives try to connect with sensors, they don’t feel like they’re connecting

I'm a 7w8 entp and my boyfriend a 4w5 infp. I do belive he sometimes sees me as shallow and I see him as a mood killer. But we are drawn by our differences and I feel so accepted when I don't want to be upbeat or happy for a while. You're point on with your description.

@jdt8983

Жыл бұрын

I'm a 4w5. Read we're supposed to be compatible with 9s and 5s. I have a brother in law who's a 7 and I like him but he sometimes annoys the shit out of me. He seems way more dramatic than I am upfront but he gets it out of his system. As a 4w5 I can say I go with stoic mode most of the time but occasionally have exploded in the past and done crazy like fight 3 guys at once in a road rage fight in a poor neighborhood. Kind of death wishy stuff. So basically you might be dating someone who has a big heart/could also be a serial killer if he felt like it helped a solid cause. Have fun!

holy wow this is so real!!!

I am a 4w3, self pres. The early childhood part about having a deep connection with everyone, and then losing it, is very true and sad... As a young kid, I was everyone's favorite friend, cousin, sibling, niece etc, and even had many very deep and real friendships with several adults.. As I grew to be moody, dramatic, melachonic, teenager, who pushed people away, it felt as though I lost them all one by one. Some of those relationships I permanently damaged. I didn't get others back until I was well into my 40's. I can reestablish as the "sunny" 4 who can sit with anyone going through anything. The need to individuate from any group is like breathing, like a necessary lone wolf, but we do like connection.

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for that insight

47:40 - I don't want people to fail

Awesome as always, can't wait for Mambo No. 5

Oh wow! A very fresh perspective. Thanks ❤️

Thank you for telling us what is good about 4s. So much seems negative.

13:08 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Funny how you often come back to the idea that Fours will try to avoid sameness and common points in conversation As a kid and teenager I remember really well being excited by sameness, the idea that I can share something with someone, and then moving on to how we experience differently the things we have in common

4 checking in here. I am fairly certain that what happened to cause disconnect in my case is that my mother showered me with love until I got old enough to demonstrate personal volition. Sometime between the ages of 2 & 5. After which point she became domineering and critical. I don't remember having a loving, emotionally safe relationship with my mom as a child. But I can assume at one point it was there by the way she is with babies.

Love love love!!!!! Thank you!

Wow. Always identified as a 2 for longing to be loved. But this is ringing so true for me. 😯

@monicadehaven9753

2 жыл бұрын

I compare myself with others ALL.the.time.

I always thought that this sensing of connection and disconnection was a 9 thing. I notice for example if my parents had a dispute immediatly whithout having heard anything. It could be a fresh new day, I go to breakfast with my family, my parents enter the room and I'm immediatly like: "ew, okay there happend something." They don't even need to say something, it's just the tension. While my brother is suprised that I noticed it, because he noticed nothing. I also immediatly sense how "good or bad" it would be to talk to the person (I'm closed to) right now without having to ask; just directly judging on first impression. But I thought it's 9s abbility to sense the atmosphere and their connection to their closed people. If it makes sense?

I'm curious if anyone else has this experience-- I got 4 on enneagram, but I don't necessarily perceive myself as different from other people; I perceive everybody as different. And when I tell other people that I'm a 4 and just perceive everyone as different, people consistently tell me "no you're differently different than other people". LOL

Love connection through shared experience, the pain comes when the other person needs the spotlight and just wanted to be heard. It doesn’t make them heard for me pipe up with how I might understand. It makes them feel I’m trying to switch attention to myself.

12:22 -14:46 read like a personal attack because I have been behaving like that recently...thought it was because I had a crush on that person...nope, I just envied them. the need to study someone, or their work process, so I can imitate it and improve my situation is real. T-T

What your missing is 4 have been deprived emotionally , they cant feel gratitude for “ objects “ like money , cloth , shelter etc because objects are dead they only give shallow and temporary feelings Does it make sense now ? its not about being special more like a call for having warmer “ REAL “ connection as a 7 your way of showing love is through goofiness i assume the more 4 ask you for authentic emotions you amp the goofiness just as a way to defend again feeling vulnerable otherwise why would your girl would feel the way she feel There is no love without intimacy and there is no intimacy without vulnerability

@Neoteny374

2 жыл бұрын

Fours can't feel gratitude for objects like money, cloths, shelter... I've never realized this until you pointed it out. So true.

@zychoo6245

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a 4w5. was a proud minimalist. After years of inner work and therapy, now i'm going after money and things. And it makes me happy! HAHA!!

@zychoo6245

2 жыл бұрын

@@Neoteny374 Unless you are a healed one.

@siryoucantdothat9743

2 жыл бұрын

@@zychoo6245 are you sure because you might be 3w4. 🤪

@zychoo6245

2 жыл бұрын

@@siryoucantdothat9743i'm definitely 4w5, with very strong 5. I even tested as 5w4, in a paid test, but eventually figured out that i'm actually 4w5. i used to reject money and materialism, preferring my books and music. I only started going after money and things after a lot of therapy, inner work and healed my traumas. It is very healing for me to pursue money because i had been rejecting money and things all my life.

I do recognize the overall responses or behaviors .

Man, that hit hard.

I choose anger over despair for fuck sake spare the happiness rant "doctor."

Great video. Really helpful for me a 2 married to a 4. Question: how can I best help my 4 to be he best self?

@e.l.lucychiron

2 жыл бұрын

Helping others with their personal development is difficult, and I commend you for wanting to do that for your partner! If he is actively working on himself, I would say one of the best things you can do is to be present, in a loving way. Listen to him & love him in demonstrative ways. We 4s have a tendency to retreat into our minds and our emotions when we're struggling. Personal growth for us is very much about learning to stay connected to the world... to stay healthfully responsive, to learn what is our own emotional "stuff" versus what is actual input from the environment, how to process things without getting lost in rumination. We need people who can give us perspective when we may be lacking. We also need people who continue to love us when we are in an emotional storm. When I was in a rut, I also could have used someone who would take me out of my comfort zone to have experiences that were just good for the soul- trips in nature, music festivals, poetry shows, things like that. Things that remind us there is a world outside of whatever hardship or troubles we may be experiencing in the moment. I hope this helps.

My brother is a jerk He used to degrade me and my emotions

Every one was too busy being selfish abandoning the child 4 once he was no more a funny new toy and bothered too much because of his sensitive demands. That was my case as a 4.

im a type 4 and the story hit hard

42:00 🤍

😱 the broken glass. Dead on.

51:00. big time, since early childhood!

❤️❤️❤️

As a four i always just wanted this connection but had the feeling like iwould not get it anyway so i stayed away but deeply i hoped somebody would recognize me anyway. It's Hard to gain this connection you are longing for when you have the feeling to always be an outsider no matter how Hard u try.

It’s interesting for me since I try to find my type and that’s pretty hard honestly, to learn more about what I can and cannot relate according to each type. I know I’m “unordinary” and even strange, I always knew I’m different from the others but at the same time the way I’m being different suggest me that I’m really not a four. And even here it’s interesting for me that the story of the Four actually is what happened in my life. My sister was born when I was 2,5 years old, it affected me. At the same time from what I remember and what I was told my reactions were a lot different from what happened in the story. I was an violent and aggressive child. I hated my sister and I was always fighting with her. There was sometimes when she ended up harmed badly because of me. At the same time I don’t remember anytime in my life when I was dealing with envy. I do remember jealousy, I do remember how possessive I was when I was a kid but I don’t remember envy. Most of the time I don’t care what others think about me. If they’re right - they’re right, if they believe something that I’m not - they are wrong and it’s they’re problem. So yeah it still looks like I’m totally not a four after all

the prefix extra means outside of. extraordinary means out of the ordinary. like extraterrestrial, outside of terra, not from earth

Hi, I’m a 4. I’m in my late 40’s now and my 4 looks way different from the stereotypical Goth of my youth. Anyway, thanks for seeing us.

Does she address this to all three sub types? Because, that withdrawal only occurs when I feel unwanted. If invited for shopping Or tea, I would be overjoyed!

We aren't Machiavellian manipulators Tom, we just want connections that are genuine and complete, with the good, the bad and the ugly. That's why we might push away if you try to approach us at joyful times, we're just waiting for the other shoe to drop. At some point we'll inevitably show "our true colors" (ie our dark side) and you'll just walk away. We don't want you to walk away! We just know that it's going to happen sooner or later, because it keeps happening over, and over, and over again, and it hurts. You bet it hurts. Maybe that's where the self-deprecation comes from? I mean if everyone else thinks I'm terrible, then it's probably a good idea for me to give you a heads-up so we don't have to waste our time? And sure, at some point we may even begin to believe it ourselves... One of the worst things you can do to me is shut me down by saying "We all have problems!!". Make no mistake, I'm not mad at you for "trying to steal my thunder", what I am is really hurt that you don't value our relationship enough to want to share your troubles with me and you are only bringing them up now so as to hammer the point home. Mind you, I know that my path to health includes finding other outlets for those negative emotions, but those relationships, to me, are irrecoverable (but maybe that's better for the other, non-four person, idk). On another note, don't make the mistake of conflating "uniqueness" with "authenticity". Sure, they overlap, and by A LOT, but they are not the same, and what we strive for in general is authenticity. Being unique is (for example) saying No just because everyone else says Yes. Being authentic is saying Yes when you want to say Yes, and No when you want to say No. The fact that a lot of times we end up standing out from the crowd because we are the only ones to say No when everyone else says Yes (even though some of them would actually prefer to say No) is a collateral effect, not the intended result. As another comment mentions, we can be really happy when our _genuine_ interests align with the rest of the group. The keyword here being genuine. That's my experience at least, YMMV. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

tom i am rolling in the grass

Could you maybe talk about the tritypes in some upcoming videos? :)

I can't wait for five.

(minute 51:00) wouldn't that be more related to social instinct?