I feel as though my battery is the same size as everyone else's. The difference is that while other people are willing to drain their batteries down to 40% or 15% or even 0%, whenever I get to 95% battery I say "Woah, I've used a lot of battery. I better back out. I'm going to need the rest of this for when the inevitable crisis hits." I recommend you watch a 5 during a time of real, acute crisis. We tend to be indefatigable. It's because we always make sure to save so much in reserve.

@angela777K

2 жыл бұрын

Yesss!

@ahmedhisham6483

2 жыл бұрын

Accurate!!!!

@sylviaowega3839

Жыл бұрын

Well-said!

@ranamoghanam6156

Ай бұрын

Very deep explanation 👌😍

When you said "we want to love you" my brain automatically said "no you don't" lol.

So clear that 5’s are commenting on this video with paragraphs of responses. Gotta love ‘em!

@macoeur1122

Жыл бұрын

That would be mostly me, I think, with all of my "dumps". Yes, I'm lettin' my 5 flag fully fly! ...and look! 45 likes, and countin'! I'm going to assume that means y'all "like me!...Ya, really like me!" ...and more importantly, maybe you understand us 5's just a tad better. - Grumpy Old Curmudgeon 😠

We don't lead the group because we don't like people and don't work well with others. I acknowledge other people's ability to do that part better and I support them.

@meeshchief8416

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with this, and also want to add as a 5, I will only take charge if I feel the current leadership is incompetent or non-existent. I hate it unless I know exactly what I'm doing (in that case it can actually be fun to lead). But at the end of the day, I want to get a good grade or be successful, so I will take lead if it's necessary to achieve the goal. 🙂

@darthlaurel

2 жыл бұрын

@@meeshchief8416 Yes. I agree with this extension of the idea.

@GUWO0O

2 жыл бұрын

5w4 and I agree with y'all

@amandacornwell4554

2 жыл бұрын

Leading is a huge space, time, and energy sink, and requires more than just knowledge. As a 5, I don’t think the leader needs to have all the knowledge but they should know how to leverage everyone on the team to their best effect. I can and have taken lead if needed or motivated to but simply because I may have the most information doesn’t make me best suited. But I understand this is about moving into action which is one of our growth opportunities.

@meeshchief8416

2 жыл бұрын

@@amandacornwell4554 I agree, the most knowledge is not always best suited. I was meaning more that if I know exactly how to do that specific thing/activity etc, it can be energizing and fun to lead, even if I am not necessarily the best suited for it other than than having a large knowledge base. It may not be the case for all 5's, but it's been my experience. Teaching others and seeing their success is rewarding for me. This is also coming from a 5 who has done a lot of work toward growing and moving into 8. I would not have said the same thing earlier in my life. Leading can definitely still be stressful when it is something I did not sign up for or can't remove myself from the role easily.

"Fives, we love you! But not when you're talking! And not when you don't play like we do! And not when you're overwhelmed!" You're saying that you love us but don't really LIKE us.

Dump #4 :) I really and TRULY feel this perspective you're sharing here is a "valid perspective" but just speaking for myself here (not necessarily all 5's) I would actually rather be alone and connected to myself and my world in a deep way than to lose my depth and be someone I'm not just for the sake of "appearing" to be happy" from someone else's perspective. Or, put another way, this idea of becoming an "old curmudgeon" all alone and unhappy is coming from the assumptions of other types that everyone wants to be something like a "social butterfly". Because that's not the desire of a 5, we would not actually feel the same kind of "lack" that other types would feel. Does this mean we don't want connection? No. It just means we're more likely to be perfectly happy with one or two people who we can truly say we feel more deeply connected to. The projection of unhappiness onto 5's that comes from other types is actually more likely to TURN US INTO grumpy and lonely old curmudgeons than anything else!....because we all, I believe, need to be understood....and nothing breeds a feeling of loneliness like the feeling of not being understood. Needing a good balance between space and "real" connection does make us different enough that maybe we're NOT understood by types that crave more broad and shallow relationships. Just something to consider....

@catercoz2491

2 жыл бұрын

Being a 5 isn't all negatives, as many recent books portray us. I was trained to use the positives of being a 5, be proud of being a 5 and balance so as not to turn ugly. I do feel as you do, that we can be pressured by other's needs for us to be more like them and that we are not respected because we are not the same. All numbers can fit into a whole, healthy circle. Let us all play our part while being kind to others and kind to ourselves. And no, no current fashion on how the enneagram is seen is going to make me like being a 5 any less. You be you, MaCoeur, just do it with love.

@macoeur1122

2 жыл бұрын

@@catercoz2491 Thank you! While I would never dream of being anyone but myself, it's always wonderful to get validation from someone who "gets it"!

@KendrixTermina

2 жыл бұрын

This 100%

@waxhero8878

2 жыл бұрын

agree. 5w4

@MsJRose11

2 жыл бұрын

Yes all of this! I was telling my husband to that the Grinch and Scrooge were hurting men they were grumps because they had been vulnerable and were hurt and misunderstood. When the select few formed a deeper connection they softened. No one wants to be a Grinch it’s usually a symptom of a life of others expectations upon us or not being understood.

The childhood story of the 5 always breaks my heart. It wouldnt hurt so much if there wasnt any truth to it.

@MsJRose11

2 жыл бұрын

Me to hurts to hear from someone else

Hey Tom, I feel like the spectrum of how an unhealthy 5 through to a healthy 5 needs to have been presented more clearly here. Your grief for your father came through and tainted your portrayal of all types of 5s. Many healthy 5s are connected and actively working on their curmudgeoness. A chart that demonstrates how to identify the unhealthy versus average 5 would have made this more objective and less like a conflation of all 5s into a distant father and a grieving son. I am sorry for your loss - this was a palpable, emotional video that tugged at this 5, who hates emotion 😂

@thissunchild

Жыл бұрын

I agree wholeheartedly. I felt he was talking too much through his experience with his father - God bless his soul🙏🏾 I'm working on an infographic depicting healthy 5 v.s. unhealthy 5.

@aaramse4329

Жыл бұрын

very good point'!Missed that too!

5w4 here. Most of that checking out socially is how we adapted to dealing with social anxiety. Lots of noise and chaos makes it even worse.

As a kid I was very idealistic, and for me growing up was the realisation I didn't want to connect with most people.

Your information on 5s is perfectly competent (any 5 that tells you otherwise is just being nitpicky or purposefully argumentative). I would just like to add to your point about 5s making friends by saying that I think it's probably moreso the Self Preservation 5s (or more stereotypical 5s) who just "never thought" about making friends. I don't know if it's more my Sx instinct or my 4 wing or both but I'm always aware of making friends, or rather my inability to do so. It does make me sad but no amount of social tips or tactics can help this. It just comes with the territory of being who I am and seeing the world so differently from everybody else. It's only a matter of time before I bore them with my interests, or we land on some hot button issue that makes the other person think I'm a monster for daring to have a different opinion. Like everyone says about 5s, I don't relish in being different like a 4, but I'm constantly aware of it because that's what inhibits my ability to make connections and necessitates my being okay with being alone. I can only lean on my 6 wing long enough to make a shallow work connection before I realize it won't ever go any deeper and I'm exhausted and embarrassed from even trying. I've only found one person (my 4 partner) that I want to be around all of the time and who always wants to be around me. He can't make friends either because he's also "just too weird" or "feels too much" or again, "has the wrong opinion". It is strange to see how we both got like this after being very extraverted, bubbly kids but y'know...people suck (and they don't deserve our friendship anyway)

@MsJRose11

2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree with this as a 5w4 sx I always am aware of my inability to make friends despite wanting them. My 5 husband who is a SP could care less about making friends ironically he gets along fine with people and could make friends easily he just doesn’t seek it

@katel19

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for this comment. Made me feel like there are other 5s who find the 6 wing difficult. The 5w4 is a tough one it seems. I’m bad with small talk.

Type 5w4 (Sexual 5, I believe), my earliest memories of myself were of me wanting to connect with others on an emotional level. I kept getting hurt emotionally and feeling like I was abandoned over and over again, It's useless to have emotions and to feel. So I sought to distract my mind from worrying about my father, who was an alcoholic, by reading. I found comfort in learning about new information and imagining the world that were in the books. When someone needed information and I shared knew, and they found the information be helpful this reinforced within me that I can make people feel good by giving information which also makes myself feel good. Coming out of my head to the world of people and their emotional states was draining because I was never able to deal with my emotions. As I have grown older, and as I have dealt with my emotional trauma, I am able to come out of my head a lot more and participate in interaction and connections without feeling so drained. This does not mean I don't get drained, but when I am interacting with a group of people I may have to look at my phone to read information to help me re-energize.

I'm chagrined that 5s have made you so wary! 😟 I realized young that I need to be pushed to be with people so I got married (it helped that I was in love, too.) Now there is always a kid, husband, relative, friend or dog around. They are all very independent (except the dog, he will not learn this trick. Haha), so I have company and the level of involvement I want. It's nice.

I was trained in the enneagram 12 years ago and it was presented to me in a positive manner. Yes, the pitfalls you talk about for a 5 are indeed pitfalls we 5s can fall into and we need that balance. I appreciate being reminded of these things but I am perplexed at how the enneagram is now mainly presented as a set of problems to overcome. Being a balanced 5 (which does happen from time to time,) brings great joy to me, has been a blessing to others and much of the work and study I have done has benefited non-profits.Can we please seek some joy in who we are as well as being aware of the negatives? I am more likely to balance from seeing a positive opportunity to reach for than to see all the pitfalls. My abusive family background gave me more than enough of that to overcome. Thank you for another thought provoking video, I enjoy your work. God bless you.

@GUWO0O

2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes it's important for others to see the negative sides as they be unaware on what needs to be addresses. There are other videos talking about the postives of each sign

Man, Tom working through a lot of issues with 5s on this one. 😂 When he exclaims "WE WANT TO LOVE YOU!" at 34:06, I'm wondering if he's talking more to his late father than to 5s generally. And then he talks about how "love is intrusive". 🤦‍♂️ Listen, if your love is intruding on someone, then I think you might be loving "at" them and not loving "with" them. If your love is intrusive, I'm sorry, but I think you might be loving in a selfish way! The same is of course true for 5s, if our way of loving is neglectful, but thinking of love as intrusive is maybe not healthy a mindset. I appreciate your videos and your spirit, just had a difference on this one. ✌

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. As a five, I’ve had to learn that you can never be more pedantic than a five receiving feedback they’re not ready for. You’ve got a clearer read on us than I want to let on.

Ew you sound like my brother. He's also a type 7, and everything you have elaborated about fives are the exact things he says to me. This whole video gave me emotional whiplash; one minute I was laughing hard about the accuracy, the next I'm questioning my entire existence lolol

I need to stop this video and come back every so often so I can sit with bearable amounts of attackage at a time

@ceonataliemangrum

2 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

@clarry9266

Жыл бұрын

Same 💀

@akazicool87

Жыл бұрын

😂 same

I could easily write you a book as well but I think it boils down to using our energy in a focused, laser beam way for maximum efficiency. We are not all Scrooges. I always felt my purpose or contract with God was to save the world from itself. Ego, greed, cruelty, etc. At 62 my heart is huge not small. I love... My youngest is a 7. Funny stuff.

I have a friend who typed me (correctly) as an INFJ and as I began to explore that he suggested I also look into my enneagram type as well for further insight. Having just learned that I am a 5(sp) I have been digging into the information available more and more and wanted you to know that I have really been enjoying your videos. In fact I laughed out loud when you said "We're going deep! Well... we're going deep for a 7, we may not be going deep for a 5." This is something I had to learn and eventually I put strategies in place so that I don't overwhelm or annoy my non-5 people by wanting to dig deeply into everything. It still seems quite weird that so many people just don't care about knowing how everything works. They somehow just trust that it does? What a bunch of overconfident weirdos (kidding! Sort of...)

I am a 5 + find it hurting to be classified as "sinner of avarice". My heart is very deep. And so are my emotions. Probably my 4w is quite strong. I can cry when feeling overwhelmed by beauty or seeing noble deeds in a film and I can feel looots of empathy w/ other people. Even feels to much sometimes. Yet, I am highly sensitive. So many times it's much easier for me to be on my own, then to be overwhelmed w/ whatsoever. Yet - very true: my home is my castle. It's my savings-place to recreate, to reload my batteries. And: yes - my original mission was (+therefor IS) CONNECTION!

5s would probably have more relationships if people empathized with the fact we are deeply introverted and social interaction drains us and needs to be done in bursts. I know that I try but I can only handle so much, and that much isn’t much at all. We want people, but enough people we can count on one, maybe two hands. If people met us halfway we would be more engaging

@ichbinnichtich

2 жыл бұрын

So true, 5w6 and intj. I feel like this is why many connection don’t work and my friends, feel like I go missing at times or don’t care. But they don’t understand I try but I am not going to force and spend my energy forcing my self to socialise, feels like they are intruding or demanding my energy and space too much. Lol I need my space but still love them. Wish more ppl understood that!

I was really touched by this video. It was exactly what I needed to hear as a type 5 mom of type 2 and 4 kids. Painful, but spot on. (Now to work on DOING something about it!) Thank you.

For me I find that my 5 traits are routed in a fear of rejection or antagonism. Things like embarassment, disappointment or harassment are especially awful experiences to me. I quit a job once upon a time because I broke a stack of plates early on in kitchen work. Nobody was even really mad I was just so embarassed.

@sylviaowega3839

Жыл бұрын

I know that as an INTP 5w4, I have had this unconscious fear of rejection.

As a 4w5 I can tell you that you aren’t really living until you start hearing voices.

Dump #5! It's heartbreaking to hear about your dad (my dad died last year too, in November) Those missed opportunities you were referring to...yes...I can almost imagine certain people in my own life "seeing" things that way...and who knows...maybe I'm a different kind of 5 than your father was...but I TO have my limits and I WILL shut down once I've reached them. That's not a choice...it just "is"...and it has nothing to do with how much I care about or love others...even family...and as I stated in previous "dumps" :))))), I don't believe the connection 5's are looking for are of the same "type" that the majority of others consider "connection", and so I would really not assume that your dad "missed" anything due to the current "story" that's out there regarding 5's, I believe that story truly is a bit "off". For myself, it's as if I live way down deep in the ocean...where it's peaceful...and beautiful...and I can look up and see all of the activity at the surface and the way others enjoy interacting, and because there are folks up there I know and love, I come up and do my best to join them for short periods of time, but it's very draining and my true home is far deeper and is what feeds me. This is not "sad", any more than a 5 might think it sad that other more extroverted types will never know the beauty and peace of my deep sea home. I'm personally not afraid of connection, It's just that I can't live the "surface life" for long...I need someone or two who can actually "enjoy" meeting me halfway, and allow me to return home alone occasionally.

@giveme24hrs72

2 жыл бұрын

Was thinking something similar when he mentioned his dad and missed opportunities.... I doubt his dad saw it that way....

@miainelom1104

2 жыл бұрын

as a 5 I enjoy these dumps lol

@amandacornwell4554

2 жыл бұрын

I think you stated this really well. I wanted to address this concern but lacked the words. I think everyone feels a hole when they lose someone, a realization of missed opportunities real or imagined to know them better and do more with them. I know my smaller thresh-hold for interaction hurts people I love and I try really hard to engage with everyone in my life as often as possible so they know how important they are. I would add Im better able to process my feelings while viewing from a distance. I don’t think watching from the sidelines means a wish to be a part of the action and feeling apart. spectating can be beautiful and fulfilling especially if its watching people you love.

@macoeur1122

2 жыл бұрын

@@amandacornwell4554 I agree and would say that's also well-stated and a perfect completion to what I was getting at.

@LeftTheMatrix

Жыл бұрын

Beautiful! A 5’s life is not “lesser” just b/c they are not engaging in the shallow patter that makes up the “interaction “ of other types-total projection on their parts. My closest (a few fellow introverts) friends go deep in terms of authentic emotional intimacy. Most of my family engages in topics such as: weather, negative gossip, super negative politics, racism + entrenched bigotry, etc. - a total energy + time suck for a sensitive 5 who is exhausted by being the voice of reason and compassion in arguing w a mentally lazy and deaf “herd” who think that the bread+ circuses of entertainment news is worth bantering about. I simply do not owe them that level of energy investment. What about the value of withdrawal into the deep end b/c that’s where life becomes a life well lived? I enjoyed sitting w a hospice patient b/c they no longer live in pretense and self-promotion. The world needs those of us who can go deep. Quite happy to do my “dump” here about being an aware 🐢 and an 🦉

This is my second "dump" here! lol... Just want to say that that desire for deep connection has been with me for my entire life. I haven't lost awareness of it. However...I would say that my need to preserve my energy and time feels like it's all about my perception (or "awareness") that the lack of understanding certain things...and the general inclination of most people to just skate on the surface of what's actually available to us in this world just "appears to me" to be an obvious "dead end" which I know will not lead me to what I'm after....probably in the same way that my inclination to go deep into details "appears to some" to be a "dump truck" of information. Neither is "wrong". We all just want (or need) what we want(or need), which is what studying the enneagram can help us understand...and ideally help us to meet somewhere in the middle with those we care to share relationships with.

Very accurate on so many points and yet exactly as inaccurate as an extrovert trying to explain the energy flow to an introvert: it is the lack of understanding that the energy does NOT come to 5s from outside sources, it fills from a little trickling source within. And the energy container is smaller than others’ . So the winching and withdrawal and shutting down is a pure necessity, we are dinply running dry. And extrovert energy infusions, however well-meaning, does not help nor fill anything up. However, as a 5 I also need to not become too content in my own ways 100% as that will just shrink the inner container even further, true.

I believe that at 49:12, you're a little biased. Both parties need to see their respective responsibilities then try to compromise. But when you say "you think that it's us but it's instead you" it only seems like for the sake of connecting with you, the 5 should just live as you wish but you don't have to temper a little bit for both to enjoy the connection. No surprise that the 5 prefers to isolate than connecting only on the terms of others who don't want to reciprocate the investment.

I waited 2 weeks for this since the 4 checklist, lots of appreciation to your work DrTom.

Tom!!! I've been waiting patiently for this list... You truly kept us waiting. Lol.

Please make a video about that email! It must have a lot of info! Cant wait!

Dump Addendum: ) I can even say...regarding the "sharing in a manner that's "compliant"...that I can look back and half-remember that when I do get to a point of "dumping information out" it's usually when I'm at my breaking point and I actually "know" people are going to think "oh my goodness"...and then be happy to let me recede. It's as if "I can't win". I'm being asked by well meaning people to share what's on my mind...but people don't have the patience for it, and I already KNOW THIS...so I just get the whole thing over with quickly by overwhelming them, or "awkwarding them out of the room"! ...and then the pressure is off! There's a part of me that can become a bit resentful of always having to meet the "shallow world" where they are, and rarely do I find others meeting me in "my" world. I'm "expected" to make this effort only because I'm outnumbered...not because the "shallow world" counts more! ....and there is no longer any cultural "expectation" for people to connect more deeply. That is, if there ever was one....I do feel that patience and attention spans have become progressively shorter over the past (20?) years. I'm thinking "compliant????"...."To what? The new and shiny social media sound-bite culture? No thank you"

@angela777K

2 жыл бұрын

Spot on!

When you describe what a 7 looks like when they're focused, it sounds like they're focused on not being focused.

The part of connecting is so spot on. It literally feels like its never right. I actually have quite a big group of friends getting smaller though and all to do with my 6 wing. As I grow older and am more comfortable with not just follow the herd, I really lose friends and struggle to connect. Feel like some people make connections easily but not me, my curiosity makes me want to meet others but I am happier when I don’t have to spend my energy on others or feel like I am going out of my way to maintain friendships. Lol even at work I would rather work on my own and then having to deal with people/colleagues. I don’t mind spending time with my dear ones but everyone else just seems like a waste of energy and could impact my life by allowing more people to intrude on my space/life. EDIT: I literally wrote this before even watching the whole video when your first mentioned connecting in the beginning and now half way through the video you pretty much said exactly that what I wrote it’s how enneagram 5 usually feel. Never felt so understood Dr.

Thanks Dr. Tom! Love the video series and your channel. You always put so much thought and energy, it's much appreciated.

We need the distance to maintain inner stability NOT feeling drained or overwhelmed ..😚😁🤩🤪

@isa-manuelaalbrecht2951

2 жыл бұрын

No sense to bark at us dearle..😁🤣🤩😇🥰😊🤗

We love you too Tom. ❤ your alright in my book. So far I've been watching your work here on youtube and you've been a huge help. Thank you 😊

I'm a 5w4 and what you say resonates with me..Thank you, Tom, great videos❤️

Loved this video! I am a 5w4, and a lot of what you said is accurate. Keep up the good work! 🍪

Thank you!! I’ve been waiting for this one :D

Great video Tom! Tap into the painful sensitivities of a 5 (help others recognize, appreciate, and emphasize with that deeper side to a 5) and try to focus on the average/healthy 5 as much as you do the unhealthy 5 and I think you'd get less emails 😊

As a 5, I tend to find the most interesting and cutting edge and useful info to be the least known. I’m into holistic medicine, not big pharma, I’m into the constitution versus how the government is run, I’m into the prophecies of Daniel and revelation. In these things are the most logical and natural answers to all that goes wrong. I would prefer the world was over run with this and I could just follow along and enjoy easy stuff. But diligence is the alternative if I don’t want tired dogma and useless conversations

Thank you for sharing this :) Very interesting channel. Recently I 'discovered' the Enneagram and the fact that I am the 5, which makes me happy, good company ;) I would like to note that "We want to love you but first, you have to change" is not about love, it's about control.

Thanks for calling me out on that; I laughed about the "Dump trucking information" part. I do that often. Also, when you spoke of the "MIssion to connect with everyone and everything". I remember as a child, I would go outside and even try to be friends or "connect" with the bees, bugs, etc. THANK YOU, truly, for helping see myself more clearly.

9:55 - 10:20 Or fear of connecting too deeply to *everything* so that it becomes overwhelming. Not having a natural filter of what is important to connect to and what is not important, so it creates a very detached base in which we are in control of what we 'let in'

I had so many things to respond to in this video, but I took a look at the comments and they pretty much took care of it. I can say that, as probably a 5w4?, that if I were finally forced to go out with people that I truly love to “do things”, I’d be sitting on that park bench too and probably having a decent time if I don’t have to pretend I’m feeling overly jubilant or act in a way I am uncomfortable with. I’d probably remember it fondly. It sounds like maybe you don’t understand how 5s show love and appreciation because it’s not obvious. Maybe 5s need to learn that what they are putting out doesn’t look clearly like affection or attention and other people need that from them, especially children. That’s why I don’t have kids. I like being a curmudgeon because it saves me the energy of having to interact with someone until they figure out I want to be alone. And I like to learn for the sake of learning and I’m not trying to achieve anything at all. Why do I have to achieve something to be happy?

I'm so incapacitated by my fear that I'm often afraid to try, so I fail for lack of trying.

I wonder if a lot of fives have sensory issues 🤔 Noise is physically painful to me when I'm either in a health flare or over stimulated. I don't want to be that way, and I excuse myself a lot because I don't expect others to conform to my sensitivity issues. I wait until my brain calms down, and then go back to the social circle. It's not that I don't want to connect, it's that my brain has a limited capacity. I will push it past the limit often because I want to be included. I dunno if this is a normal issue for 5s or part of my health struggles, but I feel like I was this way before becoming chronically ill. In my teens, I would go to a party, try to connect, then I would come home and recharge for a couple days before going out again. I feel like my brain is a computer or phone with way too many browsers open that drains my battery. I leave my phone behind when visiting with others because I want to focus on them without becoming distracted by the temptation to research. I mostly research my medical condition to hopefully be able to help myself and others heal.

@susankruger7890

Жыл бұрын

Yezzzz!!!! I am a 5w4. My husband sent me to get my hearing checked bc I was frequently asking, “What?” or saying, “I can’t hear you…” Well, as it turns out, my hearing is exceptionally good! I don’t have a problem hearing things, I have a problem tuning extraneous noises out! Looking back… I left my profession (elementary teacher) after 4 years bc I could not take the noise in class (but also don’t believe in strict silence/obedience). In my last year, I saved one of my students from a diagnosis of “emotionally impaired.”He had already, officially, been diagnosed as “EI” in 2nd grade.I had him as a 3rd-grader; he had a few (reasonably severe) emotional outbursts in my class, but I soon noticed that he was always the first (and sometimes only) one to hear the timer when students were active in learning centers. (The timer would signal to get ready for lunch, gym, art, etc). Once I noticed his supersonic hearing, I then realized every single “emotional outburst” he ever had in my room happened at a time of excessive noise! I then went downstairs to visit the classroom where he spend 1st and 2nd grade and where he received the “E.I.” diagnosis. It was a “multi-year room”, housed in a double-sized classroom of 1st-3rd graders, where multiple teachers held mini-lessons in four corners of the room, all at one time… in one open space with NO CARPET to absorb sound! It was a crazy loud space!! After I shared this observation with his parents, they started managing “noise” at home and soon agreed with my hypothesis! They were overjoyed to have this understanding and soon had his “EI” diagnosis removed. Years later, his parents tracked me down, nearly decade after I moved to a different part of the state, to invite me to his high school graduation party and reiterated how helpful my insights had been. Ironically, it would take me more than a decade to learn that everything I observed in him applied to me! But both of our stories support your notion of sensory overload!

Dumping info and dominating a convo is something I had to learn the hard way to become self aware of my own behavior. I was publicly embarrassed by someone who I did that to. They called me out in front a group of people in a demeaning way. I will never forget that person and that moment when I realized I did that sometimes. Never again!

You have nailed all the numbers incredibly well. I'm a 5 and agree with everything you say. The Enneagram has been the most useful tool to help navigate life. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

The pain and grief in your eyes pushed me to drop my arrogance and reconsider the impact I may have on others. For personal reasons I especially appreciate the input of a 7. Heartfelt thank you from a 5.

This was very helpful, Dr.Tom As a 5w4, I really needed to hear this Thank you

LOL 5mins in and its already amusingly accurate

Wow! You have me laughing and crying over here. You got my curmudgeonly ass with the ' real talk' vibe. I appreciate a straight shooter when it comes to conversations like this. Subbed!

Now I did see this in the abyss of my unconscious, the fear that the people that I need will not be there, or not being competent in certain things, or being inadequate.

Heavy repetitive traumas at an early age can make anyone withdraw from wanting to establish deeper connection with others, especially for a type 5.

I was so confused and you explain it so well! Thank you ❤️💡

heart remains guarded, because it is too sensitive to take the chance of trusting others to be gentle.

So, as a female five, with the six wing, according to taking this test, several times over many years and many years in between each test, I can relate to this. There is a stigma with women that seem detached because it’s biologically and evolutionarily uncomfortable for most people, because women are supposed to be more motherly and comforting. As a female five, which I really do you think I am by this time of my life, it’s really difficult to fight that feeling of wanting to be alone all the time. The older I get, and the more I look at how I have barely any friends I’ve had to confront the reason why I don’t have them, and it’s exactly what you said: fear, selfishness, lack of self prophesized competency to deal with relationships. I want to connect with people but it’s like there’s a cat that has my tongue and I will do well for the first five minute presentation, and then get a nervous feeling and just give up, the other thing is I feel like I’m doing really really well and then I overthink it and don’t follow up with the people I’ve met and then nothing ever happens. But truthfully, I really don’t know why they don’t work out longer. It would be really helpful to understand the blindspot, because I think fives hide their blindspot because we always want to look competent but at our core we’re really not sure how to navigate so we project an image of super cool, super smart, I’m a higher being that actually doesn’t need. The distance is harming us but I honestly don’t think all of us know what to do did not do it. I think we not know how or why we objectively come off as so detached. I wish I wasn’t like this. Really. I just think people don’t like me that much usually but maybe that is years of prioritizing my intellectual interest over relationships unnecessarily.

Interesting that this video talks so much about relationships. As a five relationships are definitely hard for me. You talked a lot about how people want to connect with fives, but it's hard to love a cactus. I can definitely be a cactus, but I feel like I try to connect with people and it does not work. I could definitely be overestimating how much I try to connect with people, but I feel like I try.

Tom - Thank You for introducing me to Beatrice Chestnut's book. She is the Only one I have come across...so far...who recognised the Child Desire to Be Connected....Deeply. Why Else get a Relational Injury that results in Detachment, if not for Deep Wounding in one's Deep Yearning for Connection? As I've healed and grown and healed and grown my Very Confusing innate ability to Be Connected and Bring About Connection with and between others has grown and deepened. Beatrice Chestnut finally Explained that to me. Now I understand the Deep Yearning and can work with all the ramifications of it whether unhealthy or healthy. Love That Book!!! Its Awesome you are teaching it :-D! You Rock!

Thank you for sharing some of your relationship with your dad. As a 5w6 I can relate. Even though I lean on my 6 and 4 wings, I find myself disconnected from others at times. This is not who I want to be. I will always be working on that part of me. Even this last Christmas with family was not optimal and it was obvious to me that a change was needed. I tend to look for root causes and the related solution. I believe the best thing will be to figure out how to invite others into my world and to be in theirs as well. I am also an INFJ and a Sigma. I will be using what I find out from those specs as an aid as well. Wish me luck.

Five here. Thanks for the insights. I try hard to stay in the moments when I’m around people and not be like the examples you gave of your father. I usually am not in situations where I cannot see the finish line of interactions though. I’m trying to put myself in the shoes of your father and thinking that if someone close came to visit me for an extending time, I would try to stay in it as long as possible, but may get that feeling that I need my alone time as well to recharge. I believe the best I could do in that situation is be honest and say I am going to spend some time alone and hope that no one takes it personal. It’s the cliche of “It’s not you, it’s me,” but in my case, I mean it, it’s me, I love you but I need to balance my time with and without you. I do feel this need and want for community. But I have realized that I need to balance it with alone time as well. And I FEAR it may be misconceived as I don’t want to be in community.

Interesting about wanting to connect. Perhaps betrayal and rejection helped us turn inwards?

I’m a type 5, so I thought I’d listen to this channel. I’m actually a 5w4, and basically all thinking and exploration activities are ‘food’ for me.

I’m a 5w6 and I found this video to be exactly true. It has been hard to accept for me that I have this push and pull between connecting and not connecting. I remember being a small child and wanting that deep connection and then feeling like I was too much or they were too much. This information resonated with me deeply.

@alethacook1145

Жыл бұрын

I’ve even had to admit that I stopped listening to music because I didn’t want someone else’s emotion to be forced on me.

Wow, good information, enjoyed listening and learning. I been working on ways to use some of the things I've learned over my life time.

@-41:00, that sip and spilled over shade towards the 5's counter-argument paper was soo 7 of you 🤣 You guys just haavve to get those digs in when you see fit, but good on you because we 5s need to do that too for the sake of our sanity.

GREAT video!! Thank you

I'm like a cat. I don't want you to touch me or make a bunch of noise and sudden movements, but I do want to be in the same room together (assuming I like you). I'd like to join the group every once in a while, but I honestly don't know how. I don't really understand the dynamic. What pleasure are people getting out of the interaction? I just don't experience what other people seem to be experiencing. My first memory was of being in a highchair sitting at a table at my mom's friend's house. My mom and her friend were talking in the next room while my brother and the friend's daughter were playing around me. When my brother and the girl crawled under the table chasing eachother, I remember feeling left out and wanting to play. I reached out towards them trying to get their attention. This caused me to tip forward and fall onto the floor breaking my arm. Maybe I'm reading into it a bit much, but I believe that that was the start of a lifelong social phobia. Other events reinforced my aversion to group interactions, but that was probably pretty formative. On one last note, a really good type 5 character that I most relate to would be Daria from the animated series of the same name.

@terig8974

2 жыл бұрын

Why would you "dislike" this?

Scrooge?! The Grinch?! That was a really bad stereotype. I’m resonating with a lot of the things you’re saying, but I’ve heard time and time again from people that don’t know me well think of me as sweet. Sweet but maybe a little shy. I’m super service oriented, but I’m a sx 5w4.

I well Remember the Freedom I felt when I realised that the Drama of the People who formed and shaped 5'ness within me wasn't present in every other Human on earth...some of them are lovely to be in relationship with! I Learnt to Discern the Dramatic from the Healthy Enough Person so I could pursue Safe Relationships to Grow Within. Good Use of my Head. It Allowed my Heart to Grow within a Safe Place.

💛I’m 5w4, I think- thx for doing this vlog🌈🌞

im absolutely non compliant. due to the fear based information that is so prevalent

Thank You for sharing what it's like Wanting to be in Relationship with a 5, Tom. So Good to hear from Your Side of the experience. I Really Appreciated your 'Mushy'.

Even on these chats, I feel disconnected from most commentators They seem proud to identify with this, like This is who I am. I want to find the way out so I’m figuring out where I am and how to best change and get out of this identity

I'm not sure I'm read as 5 and originally mistyped myself as 4. These videos have helped me realize that I'm such a 5. I've long considered myself "growth-oriented" and am grateful my learning obsessions have focused on relationships and self-awareness, and I learned to "move to 8" years ago though I can definitely retreat or get scattered when stressed.. When you were talking about compliance, it was cracking me up. I hate that word and have long prided myself on my non-compliance. I definitely guard my energy, but my parenting journey has inspired me to work on connection and be less of a "porcupine" which is a word I've long used to describe myself when I'm processing hurt/pain. I loved the story of early 5s because I think that's what I work toward now--deep connection and I find it very satisfying. I'm definitely auto-didactic and am difficult to teach. One thing that feels a little off for me is that I do demonstrate and elicit vulnerability and I am very generous with the knowledge I amass--it's almost a compulsion to find someone who's interested (though, as you've described in other videos, I'm rarely interested in theirs and I definitely go into dump truck mode. Thankfully, I think I have a strong 4 wing that helps me read people. If someone's not responding to what I'm sharing, it's like a switch is flipped that locks up the dumptruck--I've often said I'm grateful for this because of the energy it conserves for me.) All this said, while I'm definitely awkward in groups, people feel really comfortable, almost compelled I think to share themselves deeply with me when in 1:1 conversations--probably not all the types, but I'm often told my listening skills are intense. I also really enjoy going to 7 and don't think it's only in stress. What I'm gathering is that I've done a lot of work and it's helped me be less 5-like--though I still revel in information and always have some topic that I'm deep into and that keeps my rich inner world engaged. It's still effortful to be present to life, but I work hard at this--especially with my children who probably experienced me as distant when they were little. I feel sad about this, but I'm determined to not be a "curmudgeon" and think I've successfully pivoted away from that fate. Thank you for your videos! Since discovering Enneagram, I've consumed many hours of them!

@angela777K

2 жыл бұрын

"Effortful to be present in life "....what a well articulated point. I can relate to so much of what you have said here! Thank you. Curious if you have delved into the Myers-Briggs personality type system? I find that as a 'healthy 5' I type as an INFJ in the Myers-Briggs, and that system seems to offer a much more in depth and multi-faceted angle to personality types. I'd bet my bottom dollar you're an infj or infp lol! Thanks for you're insightful comment. I feel 'seen'. :)

@justjen5808

2 жыл бұрын

@@angela777K Thanks so much for this reply! Most recently, I typed as infp. I enjoy Myers-Briggs, but it seems unreliable since every time I take it (probably 5-6 times over the last 30 years,) I seem to result in a different type.

Wow! Intervention. Nice. It seems you are bent on changing 5’s to something else. 5’s are bad and need to be different to fit in. 5’a are just fine the way they are. Society says to be social and extroverted. We’ll, if society said the “norm” was to be more alone than social then everyone else would need to change to 5’a perspective? No. Be what you are. Sorry you didn’t have the relationship with your father that you wanted, but not all 5’s are that way. I have 5 kids and spend time with each doing the things they like doing. Yes, sometimes it’s draining, but I do it because I want to and they enjoy it. I hope you can take another look into 5’s separate from your emotions to get a good balanced sense of us. All the best.

I was literally widening my eyes at how much i related to the connection aspect of the 5, i am as of now, a pretty detached and self contained person, but seeing all those dynamics surrounding connection that 5s had as a kid , it was really insightful..

Knowledge and a priori synthesis (a form of knowing) in itself manifests in a deep sense of connectedness.

I'm a type 5W4 and I actually fully resonated with all this. For a while I stopped looking into enneagrams bc ppl always say, they dislike people as 5's and you hit it on the nail...the start of the story of how the 5's came into the world is to connect deeply with ppl and everything and I can't express how true that is for me. I don't just want to connect to any person bc not all ppl have the desire or capacity to connect deeply so often I am more isolated. it's a discovery I made by digging deep into knowing myself and asking questions and seeking growth & not wanting to stay stuck in mindsets that I see those who seem to be thriving don't necessarily have. therefore I must be curious about those things/thoughts/feelings. maybe there's a deeper reason why I learned this. and it's a belief or feeling that's outdated and I want expansion. as a person who observes after a interaction how I feel. how was their energy, how much did they empty my tank, etc I learned wow not everyone is so draining. wow the ppl who I actually connect deeper I feel so much better. etc and it's how I began discovering hmm, being alone isn't all that great all the time. or projecting certain characteristics and whatever else on every person is kind of wrong of me.

@deeannbailey1678

Жыл бұрын

I am also a 5 W 4 and I have very similar view as to what you have shared. I want to Connect too people so deeply I actually have lost myself and started behaving like the other person. As I am striving to be more healthy, I have realize that’s my coping mechanism for not fitting in. I am really good at acting and becoming a mirror, but in the end I am a crazy mess and know long recognize myself. 😢 That is a hard space to find oneself in 😣Now that I am fighting to be me in all my wonderful glory. It is very interesting to see people I have known for a long time react.

@sylviaowega3839

Жыл бұрын

We at least have this unconscious need to connect deeply with people as a 5, as well as this fear is rejection. Now what is your MBTI type?

@vanessaskin

Жыл бұрын

@@sylviaowega3839 Yes you are so right! the fear of rejection is big in my world. I am a INFJ. What about you?

@sylviaowega3839

Жыл бұрын

@@vanessaskin I think I’m also a 5w4, although I could very well be a 5w6, but know for certain I am an INTP. I like you have this fear rejection, whilst can feel very deep, which is why I get close to so few people. However, once I do chose to get close to someone, I become fiercely loyal.

@vanessaskin

Жыл бұрын

@@sylviaowega3839 Totally resonates deeply with myself! Thank you for sharing! I appreciate it much!

I can relate so much to his daughters experience! I moved from NY to GA when I was 26 and it didn’t occur to me till I was in my late 30s that I should have stayed closer with my friends back in NY. I made it a point to do so and I am close with them again now. Thank God it finally occurred to me. I only have a few associates in GA. It’s good my friends are in NY tho because I love them dearly, but it takes a lot of energy to be around them and I don’t always have the energy

Yes.... .I do horde knowledge and am willing to pray to be guided on how i can use it to help people and overcome fear and procrastination xx

Thank you, this five is listening and feeling that 🙏

Not sure if it's me or 5's but human love is attachment, animal love, and leads to suffering. Divine love is neutral.

I just have to remember that every five experience is different and that mine is valid.

It is to basically end the mystery of people. I wonder why I'm more interested in my own enneagram.

You described me perfectly!!

Most people are energy vampires unfortunately. The quality of people around you is a huge factor.

@matthewschwartz1745

Жыл бұрын

Also I am a 5 and will watch Judge Judy obsessively. I loved that example.

@matthewschwartz1745

Жыл бұрын

I would also like to know more about your relationship with your father as a child when you were growing. You talked a lot about his relationship with the grandchildren and I'm interested in hearing your relationship with him if you're comfortable with that. I am a mother to two small children and want to get more of an idea of what they're experiencing me as their parent.

I can say as a 5 this really spoke to me... especially the way you describe your father... that is me I am that person too

Thanks for the video. I am keeping myself a reminder to not become like the 5 that hurt you. I am grateful I can see what will happen if I don’t keep myself in line. 🙏

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

You got this!

Absolutely agree on the bell ringing thing...need boundaries❤️it is tiring to listen to things that arent accurate and factual....actually !!

I'm aware that I'm often too skeptical or automatically contradict someone if I don't trust their knowledge enough. If a person is marked as a trusted source of information in my mind, I tend to not to disagree that often (I'm still a bit doubtful though, because no human can be 100% right all the time). If someone is talking about something that I don't quite relate to or approve at first glance, I would probably first try to find out if my own thinking is flawed, before accusing the other person of being wrong.

I kind of like the assertive/terbulent spectrum from the 16 personalities and I think that's the one thing that's missing from this conversation. In this case assertive doesn't necessarily mean bold, overtly, but assertive as in confident, not having fear etc, but without the 8 angle that you are talking about. Part of the problems with personality typing is how generalized it often is and doesn't take into acount things like neuroticism, open-mindedness, etc, like the big five system. Sore the big five system is somewhat vage and general, but it is overarching within one's personality. Things like the mbti model and even the enneagram only cover part of what someone does all day. Someone is not going to be five-like all day, all the time, but will perhaps be like a seven, an eight, a nine, etc. Personality is a lot more fluid than people think. This doesn't mean that the enneagram is completely wrong, it just doesn't cover all of the nuances, spectrums, and facets of personality. Personally, I like to combine all of these systems together to get a fuller and more accurate portrait of someone, including myself. But this is difficult so I see why no one really does this.

When wanting connect with other but they are unavailable or super judge mental and demeaning it’s the start of hermit for sure

After listening to a few of your videos today, I pondered a lot about something...How is that possible that we are so detached from emotions and yet, we are so empathetic? When I occasionally find myself among a group of people, if is there someone with a headache, or with some issue of some sort, I will know it right away, because I will feel it and most likely pick up on it. Fair enough, this video answered my question widely, thank you for that! You right, I have helped quite a few people overcoming their own crisis, I am good at that, I am aware of it. You are also right about wanting to learn things on my own. I am reading "The Complete Enneagram" by Beatrice Chestnut, which I find utterly interesting, Beatrice posted at page 15 of her book a poem that I particularly like by David Whyte: "What to Remember When Walking"...I assume we are all walking a path, 7, 6, and 5 are part of the "fear triad" Sevens don't act afraid and may not feel much fear at all. Sixes overdo fear, Fives stave off fear by skillfully avoiding it, and Sevens underplay their fear, (page 138) of Beatrice's book. Mental intelligence is the main coping strategy as a way to move from fear. Human Design shows us through our Blueprints perfectly clear that most of us have fears to coping with since birth. I am a self-taught so that I can be of a better help to others, and I have been so far, but I don't like to be under the spotlight.

No, no connecting is what we want, and we are WORKING to find that connection! I am a 5 THANKS

We are all alone in life, either you accept it or dont.. Magritte, The Lovers Painting, 1928 where the figures are shrouded trying to kiss each other through the cloth shows our human predicament..

The paradoxical thing about me is that I always have a deep sense of connected and whole, as well as being oneness with the universe, but yet feel very detached when making observations, making decisions and other human beings