Hilarious little detail at 23:08 there. They absolutely changed the Gygja lore to put in a reference to turbo communions.

Perun, be aware that there's technically a whopping 4 niefl nations you should cover. Besides the giants of nieflheim, Jotunheim and Uthgard, Vaettiheim is an offshoot of niefl as well. Ice mini-giants!

Perun the 30g warriors (the ones with the spears, but no javs) have spears! AND they are giants! That means length 4 weapon => repel opportunities against just about everyone. I think that + slightly better stats gives them more survivability and allows them to hold the line better/longer increasing the per-square efficiency + reducing attrition loses. This still may not justify the 50% gold increase if you are just looking at it in terms of gold cost / getting cheap units to expand with in the beggining, but I think they may have a place late-early game - mid game => put them in a line formation and have them hold + attack closest in key locations to protect your mages and giants while they are going through the buff cycle / creating a critical mass of undead or whatever else they may be up to. + since their resource cost is the same as for bondi, if resources are the limiting factor in your recruitment and not gold - could be worth it. Since they are size 4 they should be able to let the skeleton summns pass-though IIRC (at least while they are holding anyway). Though I am not 100% sure about that, and would need to verify. EDIT: did some testing for the expansion. Settings: - same map, same starting location, etc. - roughly making the same expansion patterns, - using an imprisoned scales god with no bless (so that the results are not scewed by the commanders due to the bless + larger expansion parties) VARIABLE: which troops I expanded with. Measurement: how many provinces I ended up with the start of turn 13 RESULTS: * Bondi (20g - the cheapest dudes) => 15 provinces (second try, did this one last). If you only expand with them they take too much attrition. Greatly hindered expansion. Tested these guys at the very begining when I didn't know the map/have an optinal expansion pattern figured out, only got 12 provinces. Hence why I tested them again at the very end. They are still underwhelming in comparison to the other expansions below * Spear Warrrior variant (30g) => 22 provinces. Repel and extra stats reduced the attrition enough in most encounters that I could take 3-4 before needing to wait for reinforcements. * Jav Warrior variant (30g) => 23 provinces. The javs were a bit of a hit or a miss... in some encounters they would route a squad before or shortly after a mellee engagement (because the javs would do good damage), but if they end up staying in mellee for a few rounds they tend to take more attrition than the spear variant. BONUS RESULT: figured why not try a unit that combines both spear + jav? Neifeils have the: * Godihuskarl (40g) => 23 provinces. You get the best of both warrior wariants + slightly better stats, BUT at the cost of having less of them... The attrition was even smaller, not surpring, but when you lose 1 or 2 it kind of hurts and if you get unlucky expanding in the first few turns it can really hamper you. Also kind of expansive for early game. Pretty solid unit actually just not ideal for early expansion. Have not tried others; TL;DR: Bondi actually really underperform (if only using single unit type for expansion at least) when compared to the Jotun Warriors (either variant) or Godihuskarlar.

Thanks for the upload. Inspired me to give EA Niefelheim nation a try. I enjoyed running a Nature 7 / Blood 5 pretender for Regen and Blood Bond bless. Blood Bond is an amazing combo with high hp troops as the bond spreads out the damage taken allowing the entire mass to regen it. I can fight some major battles and not lose a single sacred unit. Edit: Update after a few more games. The Bless approach turned out to be incredibly effective. Giants and Jotun Wolves benefit from it along with all your commanders including the Werewolf thugs. Bless empowered Werewolves with Quicken Self and a forged 2h weapon tear across the battlefield. I love seeing when the enemy routs and watching the werewolves run fleeing soldiers down. They catch even the speedy units like chariots. I can imagine the horror of a chariot team fleeing at high speed from the field only to have a werewolf pounce on them from behind. The biggest issue I found is that because blessed Niefelheim units can take a lot of hits and never die, they accumulate a lot of battle afflictions. Giants begin to resemble the walking dead with numerous wounds yet they continue to fight on relentlessly. Most casualties come not from battles but from units dying on the march. To ameliorate this weakness, I settled on the Fountain of Blood pretender and build it F4E4N7B5. The earth bless provides Unbreakable for 75% protection from afflictions. Fire provides a nice +2 attack boost to make those hard hitting units connect a lot more often. Late game can cast Gift of Health global enchantment to automatically cure afflictions and boost troop hp so high it reaches Asgard.

Now this is just all around great guide! Well, if next video will have such examples ;D Few quick notes: Scouts even with just regeneration can be efficient light thugs wich help army\skratti or even raid by themself - usually you just swim in water gems, and for just 5 of them you can craft flask of holy water, wich made em independent. Add cheap armor and frost brand - and you have pretty decent raider for small cost. Longdead. I cant believe you didnt mention giant longdead. Also, its kinda easy to cast both dwarfs and astral corruption in later game if you have heroes. Just empower Abductor in earth once, give him earth boots and ring of magic = dwarf casting. Take Angerboda, slap 3 path boosters (im sure you will have them at this stage of the game already) - and you can corrupt your opponents game. And, since Gigjas have B+N you can easily craft torn armor for another cheap booster. Twiceborn is not that costly if you look at this like postponed summoning skill. Ofc its useless if target didnt die, but as we all know - everyone will die in dom5. Its totally worth to cast on every Jarl (especially A ones), maybe even on lucky Gigjas with good paths if they go to combat and ofc on heroes. Sometimes random screw your turbo comms by feeblemind slaves. Its worth to have a few nearby for replacement, just in case. And dont forget about matrix A Jarls into communion, sometimes it can seriously catch opponent offguard. But in general 4+ giant infantry suck balls. Im 100% sure they need mechanical buff - at least units in general must have increased wound resist with size, not just with HP. Giants and monsters right now just too easily to wear down in expansion (or in several battles in general). Also, i may be wrong but some sort of aoe sweep attack will change the picture, cuz giants like niefels and jotuns with only 1 attack is really underperform for their cost. Maybe together with some cost increase to balance things out. Btw, as far as i understand, Rimtursar IS a Niefel Giants, just more advanced ones. Like some elves change nation name as they degrade and lost their skills. P.S. Anyway, this is probably your best guide so far, imho. Good job!

I love all Perun Dom5 content but I can't wait for someone to commission LA Agartha, there is basically next-to-no content on them on KZread

@the_ogre1234

2 жыл бұрын

Look Up "LA Agartha: Kthonian Dead" I just uploaded a livestream as them just for you because of this comment. It's not the best but it's my first try so I'd be honored if you gave it a look.

@FlawdaFootball

2 жыл бұрын

@@the_ogre1234 this was amazing thanks so much!

@the_ogre1234

2 жыл бұрын

@@FlawdaFootball No problem dude. Next time I'll try to be a little more professional and a little less half-asleep 😂😅

I wonder if we will ever get some sort of "primordial" era that doubles down on the characteristics of the early era with even more crazy non-human superpowerful creatures and tons of magic all over the world. An age where the Fomorians are yet to be cursed and the Rimtursar still haven´t been completly eradicated, among other things. Not that the game really needs it, but for some reason this video make me think about it and it does sound like a fun idea.

@Haerdalas

2 жыл бұрын

Perun actually briefly mentions this in the vid, but there is a collaborative mod being made that does exactly this. Its called Mythic age and is being worked on by a bunch of us on the General Confusion discord. Its, uh, slow progress, but a few nations are in a playable state, including Mythic Niefelheim (which I made, actually) which does indeed have Rimtursar. They are ludicrously powerful and may need nerfing, tbh.

@Mewobiba

2 жыл бұрын

There is talk about a mod project to make that happen, and it might happen that way. I'm very doubtful it will happen in any official capacity, for a few reasons: 1. It would require significant official nation design work that I would guess they feel would be better spent creating nations that fit in with the existing ages. 2. It would create the question of where many nations came from that are present in the EA but don't have explicit lore going much before that. 3. It would probably recreate the same implications for some nations of having earlier iterations not present even in the primordial age. It's kind of an infinite regression issue; to create lore that feels meaningful for a nation, you often have to situate it in a particular historical context and give it a plausible past. And Dominions lore kind of thrives on this particular dynamic; while it may be a bit too idealistic at times (as in, understanding historical development in terms of ideological rather than material changes), it still puts front and center the way various factions emerge and interact with each other culturally. I'd love to see a 'Primordial Age Mod' come into being and wouldn't mind helping with any mindless work that needs doing that doesn't require one to be actually good at game design, but I think it's unlikely there'll ever be an official pre-Early Era age and I largely think that's a good thing.

@steggoraptor

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mewobiba I dont think that a mythic age would make an infinite regression or raise too may questions, becuase every ea nation is either already born from a group of indies or from divine beings, or has a predecessor that is.

As the first nation line I truly started to figure out, the frost giant nations hold a special place in my heart.

Something that really sucks about most Jotun Troops, the most body armor they get is 13. At size 4 size 2's need a length 2 weapon to maybe hit the head, most hits will land on the body, especially from nations like, say, EA Ulm, with those length 1 dual wielders who will absolutely rip through 10 body prot. EDIT: something to note about the Niefel Giants, they aren't limited in the cap, that "Limited Recruitment" is from the Illwinter Global, which, when cast by EA Niefelheim, lets you grab 1 Niefel Giant from any fort, IIRC anyway.

Can't wait for Jotunheim. My favorite nation right now.

Summon the 4 dwarfs is Helheim (all the Norse based nations) not Fomoria as are the bears (includes the Rus and Ulm nations). Which I will add the bears comment still makes me laugh when you mention them in the Helheim video "do not please God spend your nature gems on Bears".

I miss Dominions Perun

Very interesting. I'm glad you got to magic resistance at the end, because all I could think of was Soul Slay or even Paralyze destroying your super-expensive SCs. Well, I've never played this nation myself. And I only play single-player, anyway. But I've not had good luck with thugs or super-combatants, since even the AI will cast Paralyze, if it can. So yeah, I would think magic resistance would be critical.

A great video (as we're spoiledly used to, lol)! There's a few things I'd like to comment on, having played Niefel some in casual (though not competitive) MP games after the redesign. - Firstly, on a very minor note, since you mentioned the pronunciation of Gygja. While I can't be sure, my impression as a Swede who discusses language with Icelandic and Danish people, my impression is that a likely pronunciation would be with hard g's like "good" and not soft g's like "general". The 'y' sound is short and kind of like a single 'i'. The 'j' is either like a toned sh-ish sound or like an i. The general structure of the sound is more like "kikiah" than "djaidja", though it's a 'g'ood sound and not a 'c'all sound. Again, I don't know for sure (really no-one can, old norse has been a dead language for a millenium), but that pronunciation matches general rules for Swedish, Danish and most importantly (since it's the closest descendant) Icelandic. - The sacred scouts, if taking the moderate bless that you mentioned (FSRes, MR, Regen on a dormant) and that I agree is a good one, serve well in the role as offensive army thugs and as support for raiders. Sometimes you want to bring certain kinds of weapons to a proper army-vs-army battle (maybe just magic weapons in general, or anti-thug stuff like Duskdaggers/GoS, or area clearance like a Frost Brand) and 55 gold is a lot cheaper than the alternatives when you just want them to be reasonably sturdy and carry a specific weapon. In raiding contexts, I've used them as a complement to a lightly geared Skratti, since the Skratti in EA can bless both the scout and himself in a single cast. - I also want to note that Jotun Wolves have fear, which meshes well with any Blood Rain and/or Wailing Winds play you're bringing, and have a very high combat speed (28 iirc) and so combined with their fear and durability serve very well as medium cavalry, especially if your opponent is fielding a lot of mages and not quite enough of a line to stop *all* flankers. If you can get a few wolves back in a mage lineup, especially if the opponent's mages have bad morale (which many do), they can kill and route a lot. And when serving in that role, their stats also mesh well with the bless you want anyway, just like with the Niefel Giant. - Lastly, I do think you somewhat undervalue the Niefel Giants; while I agree they're not a sacred to build your nation around, the circumstances they're useful is quite wide, and they tend to like the same bless you'll be interested in taking for the Skrattir and Jarlar anyway. With the bless mentioned, they're a very useful tool for any war against a cold nation as well as any defensive war against a non-cold nation, and they're also what you deploy when an enemy is bringing Air Elementals or similar that can otherwise cripple Jotunheim. And despite being as big as they are, their various abilities make them take point buffs very well, and they can basically serve as army thugs in their own right; this is more relevant for later eras with their cheap point buffers, but is still worth taking note of for Niefel. When storming a fort, having a few Ethereal Niefel Giants on a flank can help quite a lot in breaking wall defenses. And if you're dropping illwinter, they remain useful throughout the game. They are circumstantial, but their circumstances are many and common, just not common enough to base your strategy on them.

@Mewobiba

2 жыл бұрын

Also, a late additional comment: When it comes to the troops, it's worth noting who has a spear or not. One of the problem with the jotun bondir is their short weapons combined with the mediocre stats; it often gets repelled, even by random indie light infantry during expansion. The spear variants have length 4 weapons, so they won't get repelled, and on occasion (though this isn't as significant) can repel enemy attacks. This is particularly relevant for giants because they only get one attack per turn. I find that during expansion, the 30g spear warriors with length 4, att10 attacks will kill enemies significantly faster than the length 2, att9 attacks of the Bondir. The 10 extra gold is significant though. Overall I would say that if you're using Niefels in expansion party, you can go with niefel+bondi since the chill will make the bondir killy enough, but if not then you want to mix the bondir with spear warriors. The javelineers are a good option later on in army-vs-army battle, but they're too inaccurate to be worth their cost in expansion since they have the same 'short weapon' issue as the bondir.

@williammclyr3330

Жыл бұрын

@@Mewobiba yeah spears are much better due to ability to repel and not being repelled. I usually go for godihuscarls+spear warriors if I go scales

Scouts can bless themselves if you give them a water bottle, so they're not a terrible thug chassis.

@Self-replicating_whatnot

2 жыл бұрын

You can also give them bane venom charms and they'll live for quite a while unlike human-sized chasis.

Man, I can't wait for mythic age.

Just when I'm playing Nief in a MP game too.... awesome

How do I shapeshift from werewolf form back into the Jotun form without changing into the smaller wolf? This is a big issue - if I'm running a thug script that relies on self-buffs in Jotun form with higher magic and then shapeshifting into a Werewolf to fight, then how do I get back to the Jotun form after combat to repeat my script for the next fight without losing all of my items?

@Leiska86

2 жыл бұрын

This script command is also a liability against magic phase attacks as it will cause the skratti to go into wolf form in a potential second battle during the same turn.

@miniaturecolossus5242

2 жыл бұрын

You don't, that's just how that mechanic works. If you really need too do that you have to have a scout or something with full body slots to hold the gear while changing shapes. However I would question if this is really needed though. Werewolfs with a little gear can easily clear PD just casting liquid body (w/ quicken self/breath of winter if you want to get fancy), and Skratti are also very tough in their jotun form with buffs and bless (and they don't have the MR weakness of the werewolf). There are of course specialized situations when shapechanging might be a good way to cheese a small army but that would probably not be something you do turn after turn like you would do raiding.

Old video is old, but Quickness Nifel Giants are HILARIOUS. Since they're all W casters though they hardly need it in bless - still, I know now for next time.

nice video, thanks for that! I have one question though: why aren't you playing any more MP games? I'm watching all the pro-tournaments I can find on youtube, but I never see you in any of the professional dominion games anymore (for example the one currently cast by Lucid and Maerlande, for which you'd have to qualify first) - would love to see you kick some ass again! :)

@PerunAU

2 жыл бұрын

Mostly COVID. My job has been focused on COVID response since the pandemic broke, which meant every lockdown inevitably meant huge amounts of work for us that would have destroyed my ability to do Dominions turns, especially if we got late game. Can't commit to a game if your availability each week depends on case numbers. Australia is opening up now with (finally) some excellent vax numbers, so hopefully I can ease back in once I've cleared my recording backlog.

Yet another great video, thank you! I've not played a nation that relies quite so much on thugging/SC'ing despite playing dozens of games, so this is a nice perspective. Do you have room for another Patreon donation for Vaettiheim, the fourth and smallest Jotun nation? They're near and dear to my heart after I stomped a tournament qualifier with them, and the lore of the split of Jotunheim into Utgard and Vaettiheim is interesting.

@yugonostalgia8961

2 жыл бұрын

Vaettiheim is by the far the coolest of the Nordic nations right? so adorable and not annoying like the others too

@entropius

2 жыл бұрын

They're unique in that they don't have any obvious thing to do with their magic. No turbo communions, and just a sea of randoms. But they have good point buffing paths, dudes that come six to the square, great efficient sacreds, all kinds of stealthy things, potentially off the charts research, great scales expansion, and access to blood. You just have to figure out a way to combine your quirky size 1 troops with janky but efficient random magic into a powerful fighting force.

Dude it would be so amazing if you could make those insane units once you put illwinter up. something like str cap only but free would be real nice.

You mention raiding with jotun commanders you can raid pd without gear with a bbond regen bless with a commander and scout funnily enough, although it’s not the most actually viable cause skratti lol

Does the mythic Age mod have a page besides the discord?

I have not watched the video but this is my favourite video of this entire week

Shields would help against the boulders, as shields give a chance to negate ranged damage not reduce it.

@Haerdalas

2 жыл бұрын

afraid this is wrong, and has been since dom4, iirc. Shields now just add the protection value against ranged attacks. this can be easily seen by troops with large shields but no base prot taking damage THROUGH shields when hit by stuff like crossbows

@Ragatokk

2 жыл бұрын

​@@Haerdalas I just tested marverni slingers vs jotun hurlers. They either took full damage or none at all in my test. Then I tested marverni scouts with blacksteel tower shields, they either took full damage or none at all (getting hit was extremely rare) I am positive the manual is correct and the article in the wiki is wrong. (You can find this on page 79)

I thought regen bless does not stack with regen spell. (It does)

@Haerdalas

2 жыл бұрын

fairly certain it stacks. As does the ring of regeneration. you can get up to like 40% regen with enough investment. it's hilarious.

@Self-replicating_whatnot

2 жыл бұрын

@@Haerdalas Would Hydra Skin Armor be a step too far?

@PerunAU

2 жыл бұрын

@@Self-replicating_whatnot My understanding is that you can stack each class of source once. bless, chassis, spell, item is good. but 2 items wouldn't stack.

@Ragatokk

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for correcting me, I'm not sure why I thought it did not stack I thought I had tested it but I must have remembered wrong.

@PerunAU

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ragatokk I'll test it tonight again, but I am pretty sure I've pulled at least triple stacking in a game....but the way of dominions is people can easily make you doubt even things you were fully sure of!

i fucking love gaints

Jotun Hurler: c'mon lads, lets go bowling!

Note: Bless can't take MR above 18

@MrThedumbbunny

2 жыл бұрын

I will have to go test this...

@Haerdalas

2 жыл бұрын

I'm fairly sure this *used* to be the case back in dom4, but I think it got changed somewhere along the line? Not 100% sure, but I'm fairly sure its not capped anymore.

first nation i boted up

Is it really stupid to go neutral scales as Niefelheim precisely because their dominion spreads cold? Since their preference is C3 going neutral actually gives you design points, and the damage will be minimal as your dominion will get your provinces to Cold 3 anyway soon enough. Especially if you do want a hell bless or semi hell bless for the Niefel Giants and/or your thug+SC commanders or for any other reason, there's always something to do with extra design points. Oh and by the way, if Vanheim with a hell bless Vanheirs wants to rush Niefelheim, I say let them. Sure they will slaughter your Niefel Giants but those pesky glamored Vanheirs themselves get slaughtered by Hurlers tossing boulders at their faces. Just another reason Niefelheim shouldn't really be worried about being rushed, as either their regular troops or sacreds can deal with most early game aggressors and since the Gygias are such fast researchers your research will come online pretty quickly too. Much quicker than most hell bless nations.

:)

1:12:31 spooked me