As someone that runs 150-250 mile races. If the ratio of M/F entries at these distances were the same I think you would see a pretty even split of winner’s per sex

@FilmMyRun

4 ай бұрын

Yup that’s pretty much my conclusion at the end

@christopherhillam7286

4 ай бұрын

Sorry. Was supposed to be in main thread ^^^ I don’t know how to cut and paste it!

@pip119

4 ай бұрын

Do you think there's a potential catch here, that greater participation often means introducing less experienced athletes, i.e., those women who currently compete are likely the most determined and experience runners?

@nathantaylor357

4 ай бұрын

@@FilmMyRun on a sub topic I really enjoy your new videos on these type of topics. Feels like you are digging deeper in our sport not just the Park run topic or things like this but also the UTMB stuff.

Whilst this kind of thing is mildly interesting, I have to wonder how much it really matters. Records keep falling in men's and women's running and I enjoy seeing that as much as the next person but as a back of the field runner it's never going to be that relevant to me. I know that every time I stand on a start line there's a reasonable possibility that I will finish last. That doesn't matter to me but it does make me a bit sad because in my opinion it means that lots of people who could run don't feel that they should because they aren't 'fast enough'. We need to get over the obsession with being the first, the fastest if we want to encourage participation.

@FilmMyRun

4 ай бұрын

Excellent comment, thank you. Very much agree that people need to relax about how fast they are compared to others.

Good methodical analysis. Hard to account for selection bias but its a really interesting result. One basic method might be to use marathon time. For example, if women and men with similar marathon capabilities show a difference at the 200 mile point; you might be on to something.

Sabrina Verjee has also won the Spine race, in the summer edition of 2019. As always, a broad headline quote can mask the nuances but I agree that as the fields develop for the longer events that we'll likely see a more comparable split of winners.

@FilmMyRun

4 ай бұрын

Indeed and there are lots of other examples of women getting the outright win. I do think a lot of it is down to participation numbers.

Lacking one big variable in the analysis, the average ITRA score/UTMB Index of the men's and women's entrants. I'm pretty sure there are far more "average" male runners comparatively than female ones in the start line of these kind of races. For example, If at a start line there is no man with a UTMB Index over 800, then Courtney would be the favourite.

Could it be that because there are more men competing in these events, there is a higher likelihood that it will produce an exceptional runner, cos if you look at those average times, it's quite similar.

@oddursigurdsson9637

Ай бұрын

This is true for all competitive things in general. Men are more competitive in nature and compete with each other as a hobby. No matter the competition it will have more male than female participants. Unfortunately there are probably some exceptional women out there who could beat men in competition but they quite understandably are chilling at home or socializing instead. Maybe they are the real winners in the end by not taking part in our silly games

There are several confounders here that make actual stats tricky. You mentionned the participation. This is an important one. Did you look at the rest of the podium? 2 and 3? Another cofounder that goes in opposite direction is that participating women are generally fitter than men overall. That does not impact podium, but that impact overall finishing times. There are sophisticated stat methods to take all that into accounts. I am sure some students somewhere are doing so. Numbers are going up fast so things should become clearer. But at the end of the day.. does it matter much :-)

I agree with another poster suggesting using marathon time. I ran a hilly ultra yesterday (marathon course then 10k course), and whilst my ultra position was typically mid-table, if I look at where my time would have put me in the concurrently run marathon it was way further up the field relatively, and I was going at ultra pace not marathon pace. What about doing some stats on the Autumn 100 to see how male and female runners do in each of the four 25 mile sections? Are men and women's times closer in the final section than they were in the first? You would have to restrict your data to those who completed the full distance.

@FilmMyRun

4 ай бұрын

I think data from other studies suggests you would find women are able to pace better throughout the whole event and drop off less in the latter stages of all distances. Young males are terrible at pacing as in fact are males over 70 for some reason. But women aged around 50 are the best at pacing. But I could certainly look at the A100. I assume you did the Endurance Life Sussex race yesterday. Well done!

@chrisshaw2810

4 ай бұрын

@@FilmMyRuninteresting about pacing, but I am not sure how you quantify 'terrible at pacing' objectively! The thing about the A100 suggestion is that it takes out most of the other variables, and there is a sensible amount of data over several years. ELBHU is indeed the run I did as part of my Transvulcania training (we met briefly at BHM last Oct you may remember).

If one would consider the low entry percentage for females, the numbers would add up and give females an endurance "advantage". Just remember Astrid Benöhr, back in the 80s!

We only have a small data sample. If more £ comes into Ultra running will men start to win? Courtney Dewalter is an amazing person.

There is absolutely no hurdle to prevent women to from taking part in ultra runs. They just have to register and run. I don't get the 50:50 initiative. To understand why men are winning: like in most things the bell curve for men is flatter then for women. In this context it would mean the following: Although are slightly faster ON AVERAGE, there are more men faster than the fastest women. If I'm right, most of the slowest individuals would be men as well. Same as with intelligence: men and women are equally intelligent with more women on the average than men. However the most and the least intelligent most likely will be men.

So at the point of infinity?

How biased are the researches and studies towards women and then they blame most of the studies are on men. But as usual nothing to be found in the internet about men, but all these studies about women. I had an argument with a woman who claimed to be a researcher in sports medicine and health about this and she stated most of these studies are baised on men, but recent studies shows females outrun men in ultra endurance sports. I asked her what are the biased studies provided on men and which are recent studies on women which conclude women outrun the top male performers in this. As expected.. she left me un answered.. it's been an year now, and she stilll hasn't provided any source for her claims.

You missed the TR250 😊

@FilmMyRun

4 ай бұрын

Oh yes I could have looked at that. I guess there are a few more I forgot.

The thing about modelling predictions, they are always wrong.

nice

When a Woman sets the world record on backyard ultra, Also when set new records on UTMB i wont believe it this nonsense.

Well Courtney sure did, a bunch of times.

Linking this with the trans women issues is a huge reach.

@FilmMyRun

4 ай бұрын

Not really linking, just in terms of arguments about being fast. It’s tenuous yes.

Generally ,men out-perform women even in most marathon competitions, but as you get to the higher level of competition the gap does decrease. Also, women generally have a lower pain threshold than men. The study you showed only *SUGGESTS* that men experience more pain post-surgery, but it isn't 100%. Not to mention the fact that the study isn't that relevant to general pain thresholds.

@FilmMyRun

3 ай бұрын

Yup this is all pretty much agreed in the video. There are plenty of studies around pain in men and women, non of which are conclusive. It’s basically still anecdotal that women have a higher pain threshold but it’s not proven either way.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics!

Andrew-Tate-um lol. That's a happy accident.