I definitely think Melee has had some droughts here and there, but Slippi has made that game damn near immortal lol.

@abzeromusic

2 ай бұрын

Was about to write that Melee had roll back lol

It's fine. You fgc now. You're safe with us.

@duran9799

2 ай бұрын

Don’t play too many fighting games besides KOF and Third Strike but I’m glad to see TK being accepted by the FGC and his goals being met.

@riotron1026

2 ай бұрын

Real talk

@KiddRocks-lf3ut

2 ай бұрын

I mean it’s not like there is a pichu main in the sands of the new fgc era, am I right?

@TedjiroKamado

2 ай бұрын

@@KiddRocks-lf3utand a kazuya main.

@NemoRackkz

Ай бұрын

Ong Welcome

13:26 He said the quiet part out loud lol

I don't think there's too much too worry about, the game has already peaked imo. Smash Ult was a massive success and a new system has been confirmed to be revealed within a year. With or without Sakurai, Nintendo isn't gonna drop this series and not make any future Smash game, we either get a port of Ult for the new system or a completely new restructured Smash, it's just a matter of time.

@illford

2 ай бұрын

If it's a port of Ult it's so over. I am not going to play the game again, shit feels so bad to me i don't get it. I think it's the platforms mainly

@cornbread3056

2 ай бұрын

I've been waiting for Mario Kart 9 for a long ass time

@Kaiser25

2 ай бұрын

@@illford A port of ult wouldn't be a 1:1 port. They would certinatly do some balance passes, add the DLC fighters to the main roster, add some new ones and maybe do some improvements online and 1 or 2 new game modes. Relaunching a "deluxe" version of the game would certinatly revive it.

@isuck6049

2 ай бұрын

​@@Kaiser25 balance steve, sonic, and game and watch, and you'll see half the top 5 crumble in existence lol

@evancarestia1409

2 ай бұрын

Melee will always be here with open arms ❤

That gimr shit is too real. I was always sided with panda because i had never trusted gimr all that much.

@ChrisOak2

2 ай бұрын

Greed is my Reason, Gold is my Resource Fuck GimR, the PM Killer.

@Himadpeoples

2 ай бұрын

Never forget PM

Why does nobody care about Smash? I wonder. Man-children, chronic complainers, an extensive list of outed predators, half of the community still watches Nairo, everybody is nasty and reactive (Twitter), worshipping top players as gods, never have their priorities straight (Gimr/Panda situation) Issue isn't the characters being played. Y'all are just not nice people lol.

@kemmypaws

2 ай бұрын

best comment

@farmingsim9813

2 ай бұрын

Well said

@GlitchanBlack

2 ай бұрын

Damn straight.

@LazyNinjass

2 ай бұрын

The predator comment is so stupid. It’s like if 10 random nfl players got outed as pedos, the sport would not be dead at all. We shouldn’t care about what individuals do that just so happen to play a game as well. It’s not related to

@user-od2qc2od1y

2 ай бұрын

@@LazyNinjass I agree with that just because there are people in a community guilty of a certain crime doesn't mean that it will kill the community we should not associate a community just by a few bad apples and remember there are THOUSANDS if not MILLIONS of predators across the world that you have not heard of you only ever hear of the more infamous ones and of course the ones that you do not hear of are also a part of communities/hobbies and yet they do not kill the community If the predator comment was true then EVERY FUCKING COMMUNITY would be dead

with everything that’s happened within the community its hard as fuck to rekindle the base that it once had

@terrellsm2522

2 ай бұрын

Turns out smash isnt just about the pro league the game is the highest selling switch game.. who gives af about the competitive the game isnt dead

Idk, I think Ult has had a crazy good run. 6 years of life is nothing to scoff at, especially given how many blows the community took throughout. Very few communities are bumheaded to be attached to a fighting game for 20 years, that's a fake criticism. My thoughts, the game is insanely fun but then it'll happen where I press the grab button and it performs a jab/tilt instead and I lose the game because of it and I never want to touch it for months. Spectating is so much better when the bracket isn't overwhelmed with campy/ToD characters.

@SleepingChimes

2 ай бұрын

no need to disrespect melee players love for another good smash game by calling it bumheaded

@CarbonMalite

2 ай бұрын

@@SleepingChimes It's a compliment towards Melee players, they're the only ones who could make it work

All I'm saying is losing the world circuits really sucked...

@yowhagoochie

2 ай бұрын

Personally that’s when my interest for the game waned a bit, (even though I don’t compete) and then the characters that started being good and in every top 8 just kinda put the nail in the coffin for me.

@kode-man23

2 ай бұрын

Yeah I haven’t watched either Smash game since before the Pandemic 😂

Love this video. I never understand people who say they don't take friendlies seriously - friendlies are the place to practice seriously, and then the bracket is where you put what you've learned to the test. You're not cringe for going hard in friendlies that's just weirdo smash culture talking. "I'm a make a video on SWT and Panda Cup one day" honestly, the sooner the better. This isn't one of those topics like "ill get around to it", the more relevant your thoughts are, I think the more important it is to share them sooner rather than later.

One thing you forgot to mention: Ultimate is still exploding in popularity in Japan. Like, they’re hosting higher and higher caliber events every 6 months and they keep filling up. This game is nowhere near dead.

@palatonian9618

2 ай бұрын

Yeah, it definitely seems like America is the most down on Ultimate, definitely way down compared to Japan.

@eyyy2271

2 ай бұрын

​@@palatonian9618 Jp doing great & EU and MX doing alright, but the US scene is in shambles cuz of the whole panda/vgbc scandal...

@j.prt.979

2 ай бұрын

EXACTLY! The US community's doomer culture/mindset is what's killing the game in their region. It's disappointing for those of us who still actually like the game.

@avavav5556

2 ай бұрын

As long as the community keeps prophesizing the end, the game is not over.

Ult is dead for sure. Melee is like an indestructible cockroach. You just can’t keep it down and I’m all for it

ult is cooked right now but tweek just won a tournament so nature is healing

That SWT and Panda video gonna be something...

Dude big respect for speaking truth on gimr. Straight up murder suicide on an entire community. What gimr did was fueled by blind vengeance. Anybody defending his actions is brainwashed and just parrots the opinions of community figureheads.

@lilsaiyaman96

2 ай бұрын

I've been out of the loop, what did gimr do?

@thelocs5935

2 ай бұрын

@lilsaiyaman96 gimr failed to secure a nintendo license for the smash world tour. During its second iteration, a competing circuit was announced by panda, with a license from Nintendo. Alan from panda leaked to several TOs that nintendo was going to shut down swt. A couple weeks out from borh events, gimr announced he was going to cancel swt. He took that as an opportunity to turn the entire communty against panda and killed the organization. The smash community went fron having a 500,000 dollar prize across 2 events, to having a few events with the funding for a 5k prize pot a year. Long story short, gimr decided if he couldnt be the king of the community, then it shouldnt exist at all

@illford

2 ай бұрын

i won't even lie i stopped caring ages ago. it's just not worth any of my effort to care. (at the time i had zero interest in Ult play wise so it was kind of "this is bad but it don't mean much for me" kind of thing)

@thelocs5935

2 ай бұрын

@illford6921 definitely understand that. The thing that's still bothering me is people acting like gimr is the victim lol. People should be called out on their bullshit. Doesn't really affect me much either, definitely has soured the community and it's events a lot.

@walternolasco9052

2 ай бұрын

​@thelocs5935 that's only partially true. Let's not act like panda CEO was somehow a victim here who did nothing wrong. The reason the community turned on him was bc he was shady as shit too trying to use intimidation tactics and trying to monopolize tournaments and profit for himself as well. Gimr didn't kill the community, greed from both parties did. False ass half narratives trying to pretend panda is innocent

Answering the title, too: No. Longer answer; I am eager for platform fighters to not be so beholden to Nintendo. Cancelling tournaments, focusing solely on casual play, cracking down on community efforts to improve network play, and so many other horrible decisions kneecapped the scene. I really hope Rivals 2 pops off and people migrate there. I'm glad you made it out of the Smash-only scene because your commentary is too good!

@whiskoo9941

2 ай бұрын

the problem is no one can make a game that can recreate the insane creation that is smash. Its got everything, the IPs everyone loves, the polish and shine of a AAA game studio, and the perfection of the baseline of what a platform fighter is over countless years of innovation(speaking in terms of competitive smash only). Rivals tried and couldn't recapture what made melee THE game and lost its footing. NASB and Multiversus tried but just lacks in that shine and polish that smash has refined itself to have and feel more like an indie game. I will say, Rivals 2 looks incredibly promising to maybe be something that can put the dent in competitive smash that it needs and hopefully will be releasing in prime time with smash entering a complete lull.

@debeb5148

2 ай бұрын

​@@whiskoo9941The face that you say rivals failed when the sequel is in development and looking so fucking good when it's not even finished yet, it shows how ignorant this community is. You all say that you can't get the same magic from it but never try investing into it. If the 2nd game doesn't get the traction it deserves when released that'll be on you and anyone who thinks like you. This mindset allows the monopoly Nintendo has on platform fighters with smash

@vanillafella4893

2 ай бұрын

@@debeb5148i get u but ppl should play what they want to play

@theflameviper2154

2 ай бұрын

I feel like it's kinda callous to want smash ultimate to die in service of another game, though I do agree that platform fighters as a whole should thrive.

@debeb5148

2 ай бұрын

@@theflameviper2154 I majorly agree too. While also refusing to support anything else for it to thrive, like Rivals

Ruffle all of those feathers. Looking forward to the SWT video seeing you were one of the many directly affected by it.

genuinely cant wait for that video on the panda situation from you

Game is just not fun to play. Once people learn how to play, all of the depth is in neutral/mental and character-based/mu knowledge, whereas I feel like people still enjoyed to play smash 4 but certain aspects like rage and late game dlc killed some peoples drive.

@nicholaswise5818

2 ай бұрын

The movement being easier while all of the micro-positioning and plat nuance getting removed made it feel bland. might still look interesting, but behind the wheel it feels worse.

I feel as though the local scenes are not vibing as hard as they used to. People used to walk into rooms of 50-100 person locals and play with 25 people that night. Now people come to grind as if their self worth is attached to their skill. Local communities have to build vibes that get nurtured and carry over into the national scene, but not a direct pipeline per se. Then majors don’t become massive sweatlords money matching on friendlies setups and never leaving

18:38 Light has went Kirby at locals. Maybe we should just have a full season where top players pick up silly low and mid tiers and grind them out so tournaments have variety. Most 0-2ers would lose to Marss's rusty Mega Man anyway. Or like. Idk. Dabuz Villager. Or, taking from a semi old Nairo video, Cosmos's Isabelle. Might as well have fun if the game is getting stale.

@mjdevlog

2 ай бұрын

i lowkey wanna see cosmos' inkling again

@fr0stdr4ke95

2 ай бұрын

@@mjdevlog Ah yes. My favorite mid tier. Honestly Inkling's fall off needs to be studied. Because they are exactly the kind of character that probably would have popped off in this period of the game. Thousands of hours of dedication, until that one player just explodes onto the results.

@isuck6049

2 ай бұрын

leo with sora or pit would go hard

@fr0stdr4ke95

2 ай бұрын

@@isuck6049 Probably Pit or Dark Pit. Leo likes faster characters. Sora is way too floaty imo.

I swear if smash ultimate’s online play wasnt so garbage it would have more players staying consistent, more events, more everything. Right now the most efficient practice for THIS game is going to in person tournaments. There are a lot of people that play smash that are not able to just go to locals for a whole day and grind. If the online play was actually good and not super laggy it would incentivize people to actually keep playing the game. But nobody wants to press a button and see it input in the game 5 business seconds later

Tekken welcomes you, my good sir. You and Cola got the best synergy

There is a few huge issues. 1. Online is shit, so its locals or nothing and alot of local scenes have shrunk and or isnt very welcome to people outside of the small cliques that are left. Which is where i feel my own scene is at. 2. You literally need a Modded Switch or you are throwing. Which isn't that accessible and widens the gap between competitors who dont have it even more. Since its not officially supported and most people are not going to buy a old model switch just for the mod pack. 3. Community. Top players alot of the time only want to play with other top players and shit on everyone else(places like Ryugacord, or even just in general.) But low key, thats what is keeping Japan ahead. Everyone plays everyone in Japan, which is part of why even their lower end is significantly higher than the rest of the world and their higher end is so strong. There are other reasons, like boring meta etc and no storyline, orgs dropped, panda and swt etc being ruined. But most of those have been discussed to death, so i brought the points i thought could be meaningful.

After playing sf6 for a few weeks and watching their scene, it’s like night and day. You can tell when a game is actually designed for competition compared to smash. The dev support and patches they come up with fix the inherent issues and improve the experience. Also their training mode and tutorials are the gold standard as far as I know. The online and ranked modes are way closer to determining your skill and match you with players at your skill level with GOOD online. They did a good job of adopting the casual side as well with world tour and battle hub too. At this point I have no reason to play smash with its garbage online, terrible buffer, barely viable input lag, no lag aerials, janky hitboxes, bare bones training mode etc… Like after modding the game then getting new “updates” from Nintendo crashing my mods having to find the fix again and again just to play this game competitively is to much of a chore. After almost 4K hours of “getting gud” just to see Nintendo release their guidelines…it’s delusional man… F this game and a bigger F at Nintendo. Like Sakurai said “Street Fighter is the king of fighting games” Now I can clearly see what he meant by that.

Most storylines were ruined after the allegations truth is most of the entertaining personalities were lost

I’ll keep it brief as someone who was just at GOML: the brawl-smash4-ult scene at least in NA is absolutely cooked, I wish you the best of luck in your transition to FGC and hope you can get a proper hired position at riot come 2XKO’s release. You’ve invested so much of your time and life into esports commentary, are damn good at commentating, and should be rewarded with adequate compensation

@rubberwoody

2 ай бұрын

How is it cooked? You just came back from a huge tournament

We can't ignore the community went from Salty Suite and "Settle It In smash" being socially normal to "it's just a game" and business casual tournament behavior expectations. Of course plots have gotten stale😂

@sselcho

2 ай бұрын

also the moment anything interesting happens some dumbasses on twitter decide to call it "toxic" or "not normal" so we can't have any storylines because you'll just get canceled

Smash fans just cannot fathom a game having its run and ending. Melee fans are obsessive and are the exception to any fighting games life. All games lose steam and end after half a decade of life. People can move on and its not some horrible thing like the game was a failure. It was a huge success but was cut off maybe a year or two early because of horrible handling from the community with all the drama and everything.

One thing that’s important to remember is that we were having these same thoughts & feelings about Smash 4 once its support was done. We (the community) were “saved” by the release of Ultimate initially coming in and fixing (YMMV on this one) many of the problems Smash 4 had. Now we are past that span of time that Smash 4 was the “main” game (4 years vs. Ultimate’s 6+ years) and some of the same issues have returned like herpes. Certain DLC characters are too strong, metagame is stale, people are growing more resentful towards playing, etc. I definitely think that the death of patches did no favours for the long run. 2022 was the first patchless year and most people enjoyed it despite the rise of Kazuya and especially Steve. Then 2023 hit and things started to fall, falling even further to where we are now in 2024. I can’t speak for other modern FGCs since I’m just a filthy Smasher, but official support definitely serves as a stretcher in keeping interest alive *and* positive. Personally I think the best way to measure interest in Ultimate as a competitive game is through the GOAT himself: MkLeo. From late 2018 to 2022, Leo was the undisputed best player across the whole world (offline). He knew it and he acted like it. Everyone loved seeing him perform well- close sets, huge losers runs, explosive grand finals - and he was THE person to both discuss and beat. But starting with 2023 (or perhaps when he was signed by LG as some might say) he became more lax about competing. He still does well - just top 8’d GOML X and won Kingcon earlier this year -but you can definitely tell that he’s not in it to win it like previously. And considered all he’s accomplished, I don’t blame him. He wrote one hell of a story for himself and it benefitted both him and his family; now with his girlfriend he’s enjoying the good times while they last. While many others have risen up to be competent threats in the scene, I think Leo established himself as the embodiment of Ultimate’s competitive scene. Because he’s more lax and seems to care less now, so do many other people. This isn’t an all-encompassing analysis and this comment is long enough as-is, but those are some of my thoughts. It’s definitely telling that Switch 2’s imminent arrival in 2025 has stirred up discussion over when & what the next Smash will be. People are ready to move on from this game. Sorry for the long comment, thanks to anyone who read ‘til the end!

Hearing that Gimir ruined your life is kinda shocking considering everything but it does make sense I hope that yall work/worked it out

@xxvolcomxx56

2 ай бұрын

what? where did he say this

@ryanrusch8644

2 ай бұрын

@@xxvolcomxx56 13:36

@Hazmatt

2 ай бұрын

@@xxvolcomxx56 In the video

@michaelcottrello

2 ай бұрын

Gimr was going down and chose to take half the scene with him. Goblin behavior

@kyallon1213

2 ай бұрын

@@michaelcottrelloundoubtedly the best and worst thing to happen to smash at the same time

Idk if you care about my opinion but I’ve been a competitor for like 4-5 years and I can tell you 100% I didn’t even know GOML was happening until rn. Smash needs to steer their marketing strategies. We need to expand to other platforms to bring in new people. More TikTok content from players and content creators, Instagram content, Facebook, EVERYTHING. We have to steer away from grass roots and make this more official and professional if we want more.

@whiskoo9941

2 ай бұрын

panda tried, everyone pushed back, then it went full nuclear

@runaway74

2 ай бұрын

I agree, even in 2019 when I was going to 2-3 locals a week I was always blindsided by majors happening under my nose

I swear, smashers love prophesizing the end so much it's like they WANT people to stop playing the game

4:45 exact reason i stopped playing for nyc smash. extremely gate kept... everyone knows eachother besides you and its so hard to actually get in and be with people. not to mention how toxic and cringe it is on twitter

One thing that kept me interested was Panda's stats of which characters are winning the most and a summary of each month or so.

I think more TOs should be open to alternate rulesets to mix things up. Imagine a tournament where within a given set, a player can only win with a character once. Acola wins a game with Steve? He has to pick a different character for the next game. Like DSR for characters. Force people to pick up secondaries and tertiaries. Make counterpicks matter. It would be similar to Squad Strike which I think would be way more interesting to watch.

@LazyNinjass

2 ай бұрын

This would be way more fun to watch 100%

@MKdence_

2 ай бұрын

There's a lot of squad strike side events but most people aren't interested in watching them so...

@Parthian6

2 ай бұрын

The issue is that that also kills players like light and gluto whl everybody loves and who are iconic for grinding one exclusive soul main.

Another cool idea would be squad strike with a point system on choosable characters

@lilsaiyaman96

2 ай бұрын

Squad strike format would actually go hard. Definitely promoted character diversity.

I'm going to go on a big rant here. I believe it was Coney who said that Smash Ultimate players hate their own game. Yes, Steve, GNW, and Sonic suck. Yes, Nintendo fucked up a great circuit. But people need to stop hating on this game just for shits and giggles. We have an uprising of Corrins with Neo and Shadic tearing shit up; Tweek dominating with his Diddy (which is one of the best things about ultimate); Dabuz getting his first huge win; Luminosity commited to content creating and putting up great tournaments; people starting to beat Acola, Miya and Sonix; Sonix starting to get more agressive at top level due to people starting to counter him... but all we can say is that Smash is mid or dead. Yes guys, there is no more content being released, so it's obvious there is not as much excitement for the game as there used to be. But unlike Melee (which I love) you don't see the same 4 or 5 guys winning everything. I'm an old guy so It's hard for me to find time to really commit to a game. But I still fire up my switch and play a quick BO5 with my son every week.

@BadGoyz4Life

2 ай бұрын

That's awesome for your son man, these are the things that will keep smash living forever. I'm 30 years old, loved Smash 64 and didn't even play another version until Ultimate, but the nostalgia factor is still there.

@loicboyoguenothecanadianze8374

2 ай бұрын

I wish I had a parent like you who would play me in BO5, I can't wait til I become a parent in the future. Bit of a random thing for me to comment, but that just made me smile.

@kingrhoam93

2 ай бұрын

@@loicboyoguenothecanadianze8374 I do with him all the things I would've wanted my dad to do with me. I grew up without a father.... so it is pretty refreshing for me to give him this.

@LikelyForgiven

2 ай бұрын

"Chess is trash bro Go has way more depth while also being more simple & elegant it's no contest" - super chess bros

@ChrisOak2

2 ай бұрын

You should play a real game with your son then that promotes cooperation and not beating the shit out of each other

I think something that may be needed to reinvigorate the meta is to do something a bit extreme to make the experience of spectating and playing the game completely different. What if the community embraced Squad Strike as replacing the standard Singles setup? What's more - we could implement Squad Strike 3v3 matches having a High Tier / Mid Tier / Low Tier character combination. It'd overhaul a lot, for sure, but it would ensure more character variety and more diversity in play styles.

The only thing that’s wild to me is there are players that will be loosing and still camp you like there winning

Not to be that guy, but the impact of FP2 had on the game made me dislike watching and playing it. Really don’t enjoy it anymore, really sad because FP1 era ultimate was some of the best times I’ve had playing games in my life

I used to love watching the veteran players, like Leo, Tweek, Marss, etc. Actually mostly watch it for them, the current players either play boring or use boring characters (ie Steve Sonic G&W). The last time I did enjoy a few surprises was during Delta in Japan, which wasn't even a supermajor.

I haven't watched Ultimate since the final Summit since that felt like an ideal send off for the game. Still though, the fact that the game did as well as it did for as long as it did despite all of the things going on in the background is impressive. It might be tough for the next couple of years waiting for the next game but the scene will pick back up when it's announced.

For me it's like a 7/10.. So much I can type out here tbh, I've loved all these games deeply since youth and played all of em with my childhood friends... for ultimate it's definitely my fav in the series and I always loved how they blended elements from all the games in this one. I've only entered a handful of tourneys (actually played some friendlies against ya Breezy at dreamhack ATL) and going to them are quite enjoyable but you definitely have to attend them often to get anywhere with it. My anxiety doesn't allow me to enjoy social settings fully, so it takes me a while to get used to new situations. Also I think the new meta on who is the best shifted from acola and spargo to spargo and Sonix. Sonix almost got close in his losers run at GOML til tweak took it at all instead.. I never was a fan of the meta for this game for years, it would shift from "enter new character X that just dropped, he's obviously gonna be broken and break game." Or it'll be when a new character is developed somewhat and ppl will jump the gun and say it's breaking the game lol. I think it went from, Joker -> Hero -> Steve -> Kazuya (on and off for kazuya) then back to Steve. Lol. I understand characters can be gimmicky but not waiting until the final patch and having that many ppl complaining was seriously annoying .. Another thing I think this game suffers from is online obviously and just the sheer amount of things that can go into an online game to affect the lag... it's disheartening, bc I see top players make top16 at coinbox frequenty, but for some reason I just can't get a good run myself. I'll always have to play laggy ppl in my beginning pools or I just get cheese. Everytime lol.. I'd like to attend my local more often but it's a bit far from me... Last thing I think this game will suffer from (Especially in the future) is input lag/controllers in general. For one, it's silly someone came up with a better GC adapter for switch that's not nintendo licensed.. I think once people figure that out, it may inspire people to get more serious (maybe more box players will emerge just like how melee turned out.) And metas will probably be more defined and played out. It was hella awesome seeing Tweak win Goml tho ngl, I'm one of those ppl who wait til Sunday to watch top 8/16 and tweak definitely earned that win yesterday... I never was a huge FG head in general, i played Mace the dark age, tekken 4, soul calibur 2, and wrestling games mainly as my Fgs. Rivals 2 does like hype tho and might have to consider learning that game

@KangaDrewTV

2 ай бұрын

**Adding to the controller section People are gonna realize eventually that paying 50-60 bucks for another ultimate GC Controller every year or few years is def not worth it. I've already bought like five of these bitches myself and would like to find another alternative. Ig melee Controller modders would help, but it's just silly how often these cheap nintendo GC ultimate controllers break...

13:27 Ooh, imma need to get that video soon. Sounds kinda spicy

I'm excited for that Panda/Smash World Tour vid! That should be fun.

I started watching street fighter 6 since last year. If i ever got to that level, the prizes are bigger, although if i played smash again, i’d love to play mario

Worst part about trying a bunch of new and awesome fg with great netcode, is that it makes going back to an old and awesome fg with shitty netcode SUCK.

11:30 I will say playing friendlies do help but event don’t usually have enough setups now for that or all the open setups are sharked by moneymatchers

Tbh, I lost actual interest in ultimate after the pandemic. Since then, I stopped watching for the game and kept watching for the people (tweek, kola, sparg0, etc). I think that ult was just built to not be a good competitive game. Edit: Also the lack of European events rn hits because real talk they carried the hype for this scene.

@-8h-

2 ай бұрын

It was the best competitive smash game since melee 🤔

@kyallon1213

2 ай бұрын

@@-8h-I agree but you can be better than something else without being good

Make that smash world tour vid -

Mark my words Mr. TK. Make hazards legal. ☝🏽

GOTL X really reinvigorated my love for Ultimate, no idea why exactly, just hit the spot.

My expiration for Smash Online came. Didn’t renew my membership.

17:22 Lol

I think adding more stages to the stage list or having a rotating stage list per quarter would help keep the meta more turbulent.

Here are some and to make interesting I’m gonna give them scores on how much I think they are at fault for the decline. - The last patch and character were ages ago 10/10 - not enough money in the scene anymore = less opportunities to travel 7/10 - Mkleo‘s reign narrative being over (how he effortlessly changed mains was a reason too why this narrative was so entertaining) 7/10 - Panda cup and world tour being canceled 6/10 - quarantine and bad online 5/10 - the rise of the annoying top tiers 4/10 - the cancellation of bigger content creators, especially Zero & Nairo 6/10 The cancellation was a long time ago, I know, but i think people forget how important it is to have a successful outlet that everybody watches that is/was also a pro player. The one that tells you the current narrative, meta and drama with great production quality. Lights Out and Tweek Talks do it, but their format is not for the casual spectator and hungrybox expertise on ultimate as a game and as a scene seems to be lacking and his content is too focused on platform fighters as whole.

I feel like as the meta has shifted and players have gotten better at a top level, the way they have to play changes due to the threat of getting 0 to death by their opponent.

personally that terrible pre-pandemic era game infrastructure (mainly the online + training mode) just feels so terrible for me. When I stopped running sets with my brother my motivation was gone after one or two online sessions. As someone who is super happy with SF6 and Strive Ultimate is a very frustrating game to play for various reasons, which makes me less interested in watching it as well. The more I think about it the more I want a new Smash game that reboots a bunch of stuff, but that's not in my hands

Feel like Covid hit Ultimate so hard, that dry spell was rough and it was hard for me personally to care about online tournaments. Once tournaments came back it didn't feel the same to me, still love the game though.

Have you seen hurts snake? His grenade use is honestly insane

I think im still at a 7, i still keep up with all the tournaments. I have been invested in Shadic's recent come up and still wanna see Spargo hit number 1

Gimr is honestly weird af to me. I remember Zomba made the tweet about underdog boost at SWT and Gimr tried to make it seem like Zomba did something wrong. He didn't have his slingshot vid ready and made a whole deal about it like it was some traumatic event. Then he and BTS take out Panda because they were struggling. The WORST part is I feel like many adults in the community had more to say about the Panda/VG thing from the start but no one spoke up. The adults in the community are always so silent, always so "well it doesn't concern me", and now so, "Gimr is my guy but taking about Panda was weird, oh well tho XD." Also now everything becomes such an issue with everyone dignifying silly stuff with paragraphs instead of just saying it like it is. Really letting the high schoolers and neckbeards run it because they're either too scared or "too cool" to speak on things. Probably just gonna unfollow all smash related socials at this point at just watch tournies because it's honestly pathetic.

For me, no, I’ll always play Ultimate with friends, family, and just by myself. I don’t care what people say, though I respect their opinions. I absolutely love this game way too much, and it’s a lot of fun to me. As for the competitive scene? Who knows? Maybe. Its community is toxic anyway, so good riddance.

HONESTLY? No not really for me lol. Every now and then I'll catch a major Top 8 but otherwise nah. Definitely interested in the other fgc games you're covering more these days like Tekken 8.

I thought it was more popular than ever. New players coming to the scene all the time. New regionals and weeklies being established. More pros wanting the prestige of earning a major win etc etc, and the collegiate scene is booming rn I think. Tons of great collegiate level players including Jejajeja, Lima, Kople, Sogoodpop and more

Ult is over and the meta is the culprit. Steve, sonic, Kazuya, etc. these characters are just no fun to watch. It’s not the players faults it’s just the reality. Are bans justified? Prolly not from a balance perspective but it probably would make it more watchable. At this point it just feels like everyone is waiting for the new switch announcement for a new game

For me personally, it died down once mkleo was consistently not getting first. I guess you could say the hype died, for me, when summit was over

Yes but barely , a new game is needed very badly but knowing nintendo theyre going to try to make it as non competitive/kid friendly as possible

I still love it uts just hard to keep playing it when the online is trash .....i still watch tournaments tho

honestly when all the shit happened with the circuits I took a break from smash for almost half a year cause that completely made me lose interest even though I played everyday - I watch technicals expose all the shitbags of the community rather than engage in playing

Time to wait for the next Smash.

to answer the video title: yes, but only really my local scene. big tournaments are cool and all, but if i run the risk of a sonic, g&w, steve and 1 cool character top 4, i am not staying up that late (due to time zones, all american and japanese tournaments are at unreasonable times for me). i myself love the competition right now, even though i mostly go either 0-2 or 1-2, but more because of the people than because of the grand scheme of things or rankings or stuff like that. it's just a fun game. i do however wish that characters like steve, sonic, sora, banjo, min min etc aren't as annoying to fight as they currently are. yes i can learn the matchups - and i am trying - but it just isn't as fun to win a 7min game against a campy sonic as it is to have an explosive game against snake or roy or someone like that.

I think more squad strike as the main event would be cool

About a 3 and there's 3 reasons 1. Rivals and P+ were always just better games than Ult to play personally. Ult is just kind of sticky to play to me so any real competition pisses me off. 2. Why would I watch Ult when UMVC3/P+/Rivals are there. All of them have movement and goofy bullshit but it's way more entertaining and it just feels a bit less polished. Like it feels like comms are allowed to be more silly. 3. Rivals 2, MultiVersus and 2XKO are dropping soon. MultiVersus will probably fulfil me casually and the other two will be better to play competitively by having real netcode, so what is the reason to play Ult? Yeah I like Duck Hunt and Bowser Jr. and shit but ill just wait for someone to mod it into Brawl or something and then i can play it ina better engine.

@illford

2 ай бұрын

It doesn't help that outside of Snake and Min Min i don't really like any good characters in the game. IDK why all the interesting characters are so bad

I care about smash ultimate; but i'm totally not their target audience. I'm old 40 year old dude that doesn't go to locals or torneys or anything competitive and I just play smash online or occasionally with my nephews/friends if they so happen to play. The biggest hurdle is Nintendo really just getting in the way of any progression with their protection of their IP. The only attempt they made at going mainstream with WST; got killed by the whole Panda Global Gaming thing screwing up everything.

I’ve always wondered what you coney and EE think of Gimr after all the fall out of the world tour. Being a TK fan it hurt to see other people get picked up and not you. Still appreciate the content TK

We're coming up on the next game. Nintendo just needs to get with the times and make it a live service game for casuals and better online.

I feel like some way to get more variety in tournaments would inject more life into the game.

TK is spittING

my main problem with smash is how long sets take. after watching tekken or sf6, it feels like smash just takes forever. it's not always the case of course, but these recent tops 8's...

I care about Ultimate! But i also mainly play online nowadays, i only go to a few tournaments a year and occasionally my local

I still watch most tournaments. Only if Larry is streaming it. I still love playing with friends, and a local is about start around me, so I’m still pretty into it. I do hate Steve, and sonic with a passion.

Really want that Gimr video now

Rivals 2 will pop off if people give it a genuine shot. I've never had so much fun with a platform fighter tbh, that shit is addicting

@riotron1026

2 ай бұрын

It won’t. Games only truly “Pop off” when you have a big causal following behind the more competitive players. Even if the mechanic are smooth, fun and melee-like, if the more casual aspects aren’t appealing enough mostly your most dedicated players will be the ones playing and Smash is the unstoppable final boss of platform fighters where anything similar just seems like a knock off even if the mechanics are more fine tuned than in Smash games. There will definitely be hype for the new Rival game but attention will likely dwindle quickly and the more casual fans will fall off and play something else.

@ChillQuestionMark

2 ай бұрын

@@riotron1026 When I say "pop off" for a platform fighter, I mean pop off in the competitive smash community lol. There's no chance for these games outside of it. That being said, there's a market for a good platform fighter amongst ultimate players since ult's meta is just unfun in general

Bro I play heavy smash under custom it’s pretty dope

Imo this is what happens when everyone convinces themselves that steve is far worse to fight than gnw or sonic. Recently some losers try to camp out my aggro steve. Nice. Thats literally delaying the inevitable like save that gameplay for sonic or gnw where u actually need to camp and not make a single mistake

@plusah1268

2 ай бұрын

​@lbesavant yea, idk it's what I feel contributed to the slow downfall of this game. Sonic players weren't around when panda was still kicking. besides like sonix and wrath. Gnw wasn't even considered viable back then either. People hated sonic, back then universally, now apparently people convince themselves sonic is fun to fight? This is why people quit this game imo. I sure as hell considered it after getting hit by some loney tunes sonic stuff and realizing: you know what? This character singlehandedly screws this game that I love so much over.

hear me out...tournaments with certain items.

Sakurai just dropped a video about character design & balance. He breaks down winrates based on online data and I didn't see a single comment calling attention to netplay vs. locals dynamics. So I guess online is where the fish are biting these days. Personally I don't mind a shift in focus from reaction to hard reads if that's what the game is tailored towards. If all else fails for leveling the playing field for locals, there's still the possibility of fighter-specific starting damage or something.

I just got back into ultimate

I really tried to watch GOML Top 8, but after Big D and Leo got eliminated, it just became so hard to watch...

In its simplest form, the game is getting really hard to watch once top 8 starts lol if you don’t have better things to do than to watch Steve, GnW, or Sonic play a best of 5 set… get you some friends 😂😂😂

The best thing Smash can do to get back on its feet is get rid of the figure heads (cough Gimr cough) that have their head so far up their rears.

No, and we can blame the dominance of DLC characters for this

Honestly I don't even mind G&W, Sonic and Steve. When I really think about why my interest began to wane, it was after the SWT and Panda fiasco... Was really excited for the circuits and all that was being built up only for all of it to crumble in a week. And I do agree with you about the stuff with Gimr. And I would include the Summit folks too, if they knew it was going under why did they so happily bring down another viable path forward for Smash Ultimate with Panda. I don't get the logic and thinking about those times just makes me disappointed again

9:00 😂😂😂😂

To answer your question, I am still very invested in watching competitive Ult (even though I, like everyone else, hate Steve and Sonic); however, I really only got invested post pandemic after the fallout from the Panda mess so I don't have a reference point for how it was in it's heyday.

I got into Smash Remix after playing Ultimate for a while, but I doubt Ultimate dies until the next Smash comes out. It's 6 years and I don't think Ultimate is solved.

Short answer? Nah. Long Answer? Depends on who ya ask lol.

i dont anymore