I’ve done a ton of research on this topic, and actually find 9s to fit the dismissive avoidant very strongly. An unhealthy 9 has almost full overlap with DA traits. Avoidance of conflict, not knowing their own feelings, disassociation and checking out. The #1 trait DAs want out of a relationship is actually consistently stated as harmony

@okayyylie1961

3 ай бұрын

Yesss! Been doing research myself this last month and through my breakup with my enneagram 9 and I 1000% believe he’s a dismissive avoidant. Hates conflict, needs space, thinks every need a partner asks for is clingy and needy or trying to change him, dismissive of trauma or relationship concerns, thinks a normal disagreement is a huge fight, offended easily by criticism, independent and won’t rely on anyone, stubborn, said being single is easier (duh), would be fine if he never got married even though he “wants to”, doesn’t vent to others or seek advice, shows no emotion and cannot cry, and lastly for now, ghosting out of no where during a convo for now two weeks (2 weeks after the breakup). I’m SO surprised he didn’t connect this in the video!!

@marybell2002

Ай бұрын

​@@okayyylie1961 Your ex sounds a lot like my type 9 dad. Do you know your partner's mbti type? I wonder if that might be helpful. Not sure what my dad's attachment style is but he is an ISFP type 9 and he's vey different from an ISFJ type 9 male I know.

Attachment style is like the Enneagran Type. It’s your default setting but like you said, not a life sentence. It’s all about awareness, growth, and healing 💜

I think someone's attachment style develops through a strong combination of emotional connection between the parents and the person as a developing child and the child's perception of the external environment they need, or feel the need, to adapt their authentic personality to so they are able to "fit in"

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Thanks

I'm a 4 and I see some of myself in all three. I haven't always been avoidant but started to be because of trauma. I think anxious attachment is the closest, though. It seems most natural and was likely there first. But surely it can change so it's possible to be secure later in life. The dismissive avoidant style explains some things I've experienced with some others and also sometimes myself. I would love to see a series of videos on help for the different attachment styles. This video was more about awareness, which is a good starting point.

When it comes to attachment styles, keep your eye on trauma and the deep, elusive effects it has. Especially complex trauma. These styles can indicate the presence of deep-ceded fear, pain, and hurt in our lives-the kind of stuff we need help unpacking. Thank you, Dr Tom!

LAYERS - the Nine Types were enhanced decades ago by introducing nuances. Originally there were Nine Types. Experience however showed that we rely on one Wing more than the other, allowing us to see that a type has biases. Then the three Instincts came in (the social/sexual/preserving drives) allowing us to see how we focus on different aspects of our lived domains. I believe that the next progression is attachment. And it’s not just about how we interact with our parents. I’m very avoidant, and this impacts how I relate to my wife. She feels it. I love her deeply, but my style sneaks in so stealthily and creates a distance between us. I fight this so much, but it’s a fact!

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Interesting...thanks

Thank you, Dr. LaHue, for another great video - such good, reaffirming truth for all of us regardless of type.

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

My pleasure!

WOW! This was spot on! Thank you Dr. Tom for all you share. I very much appreciate it and have learned tons from you.

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

You are very welcome

I am an enneagram 9 and have a secure attachment style. I developed an anxious style while being friends with an Avoidant narcissist. I am still healing from that friendship and am confident i will go back to the secure style easily. I went no contact 2 months ago.

Oh yay! I mentioned this topic on your type 5 livestream & asked you about it live. I’m a 5 & DA. They honestly sound one & the same. The Personal Development School is a good attachment style channel.

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Oh wow! Thanks

Am a 4 and I am anxious like crazy 😮😂

Oh wow! I've actually thought of just this and how/if the insecure attachment styles would fit into the Enneagram and if there's maybe a relation to the triad or the centers somehow.. since there's 3 of them styles 😉 so this shall be an exciting and interesting watch! And please DO concider doing a separate video on the other 2 insecure styles aswell to compare. Thanks bunch! 😊🎉

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

That's a great idea!

I agree on all points. I'm an Ennea 6 Anxious attachment style married to a 5 with Avoidant attachment style. Everything you said is true.

9w1 INFP and I have this fearful/DA attachment style. As a child, I had one anxious(type 6) and one avoidant(type 5) parent and always got mixed signals... that push-pull. As a 9, that common "you need to be low-maintenance"; that need to be self-sufficient. Even when I do have needs, the people I grew up with would say they'd support me, then shame me and complain about me. It's this push-pull of wanting to avoid others becoming the way you are. When I was studying my psych degree, most of the time it formed in childhood and stayed that way. It can be hard to change those extremes, but to those who read this, you can change. It's hard work, but if you do it, life will be richer and more enjoyable. I couldn't agree more that a single person cannot be EVERYTHING. Important for those who rely on only one person for their needs but also for those who need to hear that they don't have to be that for someone else either. It's equal parts, give and take. Having your own needs and other's needs met. To give to others, we need to invest in ourselves to have that love to give. ❤ EDIT: love your videos as always Tom!

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing, growth and balance are key!

It's a good line of questioning. I think it has to do with the level of health. I will say that I have seen some ninja-like dismissive avoidance in 7s. I think the key lies in recognizing that cheerfully re-framing your own needs is a (even if more acceptable) form of dismissal. And if you are bent on dismissing your own needs (unpleasant, distressing feelings, etc.) you will certainly dismiss anyone who touches on or addresses that in you and dismiss them also. Even if you manage to do it in a characteristically charming way.

Interesting video! I've seen 8's and 5's get this way. I'm a 2 and I think 2's go to this sometimes when they are stressed and go to 8. Thank you for sharing!

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Exactly!

8 here - I’m thinking Dismissive Avoidant

5 here , DA , and INFJ 🥹

2W1 (with W 3 very present) In relationship that I sense are secure, I tend to have more of an anxious attachment style. In potential relationships, I am often fearful-avoidant. I do believe this is also partially a result of the work I do, and what I have faced along the journey.

Just from my small research so far, as I’ve really researched on my own, Type 2, and my ex’s, Type 9, I would say dismissive avoidant really aligns with Type 9. I also think enneagrams form from our attachment style almost. Like yes it’s our attachment style but of course that falls into our personality characteristics. And of course trauma and nurture (nature vs nature) shape who we are mostly. My ex hates conflict, needs space, loves his peace, thinks every need a partner asks for is clingy and needy or trying to change him, dismissive of trauma or relationship concerns, thinks a normal disagreement is a huge fight, offended easily by criticism, independent and won’t rely on anyone, stubborn, said being single is easier (duh), would be fine if he never got married even though he “wants to”, doesn’t vent to others or seek advice, shows no emotion and cannot cry, and lastly for now, ghosting out of no where during a convo for now two weeks (2 weeks after the breakup). These are mostly unhealthy 9’s. He was an amazing partner in the beginning then slowly my anxious attachment started emerging (I think I’m both secure and anxious though very anxious lol especially during breakups) and looking back, especially at texts, I do think I intuitively felt things were off and knew it deep down despite him disregarding and dismissing my concerns and anxiety. His dad was in and out of his life as a child at times so I think that plays a role. He also says his mom, sister, and grandma are strong willed and very independent..(not true) but anytime I asked for help I had “lied”about being strong and independent🥲 thinks asking to be taken care of sick is selfish..I could go on but they’re just too similar in characteristics. As far as twos, I have never been dismissive or avoidant in my life. Even when people hurt me I want to help them.

@twlahue

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing this.

Hi, I was wondering if you could flesh out the concept of limerence in the context of the enneagram? If you decide to look into this, I really do appreciate it. The different attachment styles really add another layer of perspective in understanding the impression we got from our childhood.

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

I had to look that one up: Limerence is a state of intense romantic infatuation or obsession with another person, typically characterized by a strong desire for reciprocation of one's feelings but not necessarily by sexual attraction. It involves intrusive and compulsive thoughts about the object of one’s affection, a craving for emotional union with them, and profound feelings of joy and pain depending on their perceived feelings towards the individual. This concept was first introduced by psychologist Dorothy Tennov in the 1970s to describe a distinct form of romantic love that has the potential to turn into a deep emotional attachment or even unrequited love, often leading to significant emotional upheavals.

@TLS2SN

4 ай бұрын

Thank you :)

I'm curious about the instinctual stackings and how they are impacted by the attachment style. Especially social types and how they are impacted by being dismissive-avoidant. How would that even work?

Please make a video about fearful avoidant and enneagram 4

Logically, what you say makes sense. However, life experience has taught me a few things. I think the subtype (social, sexual, self-preservation) has MUCH to do with attachment style; so does the health of the type, and MBTI type. My ex of 17 years is an avoidant she is a 2w1 (ISFJ). My current wife is a 8w7 (ESTJ); she has anxious tendancies (she is extremely affectionate). I am a 5w4 (INFJ), I like to think of myself as secure, by my ex brought out some unhealthy anxious hahavior (due to emotional starvation). My step daughter is a 6w7 (counter-phobic) (ENFP); she is anxious. My step son is a 4w3 (ISFP); he has avoidant tendancies. My daughter (biological) is a 7w6 (ENFP); she has anxious tendancies, but seems mostly secure. My oldest son (biological) is a 5w4 (INTP). He is secure. I also think the tri-type plays a role in the attachment.

I am a 5w4 ... when unhealthy i am anxious preoccupied .... my boyfriend 3w2 and was fearful avoidant... but he had to knock that off .... so we could both become secure

@StephanieStults

4 ай бұрын

Fearful avoidant & anxious preoccupied play off one anothers fears in a vicious cycle if left to do so

5w6 with a dismissive avoidant style and also an ISTP, and yes, i see myself as a high independent woman and also, i have commitment issues so yeah, ofc im avoidant

I wonder about this compared to instinct stacks instead

Wow Dr.Tom,Wanted you to talk about this.I am 9wing1 and secure(80%). After the inner work,just repel DA's 😢.....its sad though .Have seen ENFPs and ENTPs with DA attachment style as well.Hopefully I would find some mature and healthy people as I move forward....😊

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Yes

Hello Dr lahue. When you're stuck between types how do you decide. For years I thought I was a six, few years later the more identification is with type 4. Keep in mind this comes from a very confused 57 year old female personality. 4 seems to be the closest identification. I just wanted to hear your take. And if there aren't some definite tips to accurately identify? Thank you ahead.

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Yes it can be challenging for some people. Have you tried talking it over with someone in your life that knows the Enneagram?

type 5 here, fits most of the criteria (definitely not the stuff about preferring superficial exchanges tho, ew)

I would say that your probably correct about most 5s being dismissive avoidant... i feel like the reason im not is because im a female. ... unlike most 5s

I’m a 5, DA, INTJ!

The original point that all types can have any attachment style should have prevented the attempt to associate some types with some attachment styles. Something I would really like to see your insight about is the way that attachment style relates to the growth and stress of each type. Both Attachment Theory and Enneagram share a desired movement along a path. With attachment, we work to move towards secureness, while with Enneagram, we work to move towards a healthier version of our personality. Improving down the attachment path and should make a person a more healthy version of their personality and vice versa. I would like to see a video talking about how that would look for different types.

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Great idea

I'm the avoidant because i grew up in a toxic dysfunctional family , i avoid pain basically 😅

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Right

I have a problem with the colloquially understood way of characterizing the attachment styles. It seems to me that the way they're commonly understood and invoked is erroneous and often amounts to gaslighting and dismissal. There are likely healthy and unhealthy versions of each of these styles, but the nomenclature suggests that only the "secure" style is healthy. A secure attachment style is healthy when the person who has it is lucid and aware of their environment and their ability to navigate it. It is unhealthy when it manifests as the byproduct of "blissful" ignorance. The avoidant attachment style is healthy when the person using it is self aware and able to use pattern recognition to be discerning about their environment. Its unhealthy when someone deploys it as a way of circumventing the challenges they need to face in order to grow. Theres much more that i could say but I'll leave it at that for the sake of brevity.

@mollieirvine1026

4 ай бұрын

Oh that's quite an interesting take, I hadn't heard anyone discuss that before. Do you know anywhere where I could learn more about this perspective?

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the warning.

Anything but secure sttachment is an unhealthy attchment style and we are all supposed to work at becoming secure

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Right...

Avoidant personality disorder, not avoidant attachment

🤭😏👏👏👏

You didn’t mention 9’s.. again. Always the most forgettable person in the room 🙄

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

21:10 I briefly mentioned 9w8's

@twlahue

4 ай бұрын

Also mentioned 9's briefly about 6:40 and 6:57

Heidi Priebe and Tom LaHue collab incoming?!?! The ENFP power would be off the charts... but for myself, I'm a type 9 and I'm definitely Fearful Avoidant (and I know at least 2 FA 5s, an 8, I think a 7... not sure how strong the Enneagram correlations with attachment styles will be, but I do know attachment styles are really important!)