Has campaign 3 kept you interest...or are you just waiting for the start of Critical Role's Campaign 4? Let us know!

@wolfinstedd

6 ай бұрын

I think once hit the Moon of ruadus view might jump. But this campaign being 1 story with no real arc has not helped.

@oshermdaddy2058

6 ай бұрын

It has for me and my friend who actually started with this campaign. Also I find it pretty ironic how this came out right as they decided to start their way to ruidis, where the actual sneaking their way to the bloody bridge is supposedly the first episode of 2024. Ik this was probably recorded before that episode but still funny timing wise.

@louisst-amand9207

6 ай бұрын

i'm just waiting for C4 at this point. I lost interest after the point they made Laudna come back to life.

@thomascolligan6156

6 ай бұрын

They need to wrap up C3 and move on to C4 ASAP. This campaign has been really slow from the beginning. I really lost interest when they did not defeat Ludinus the first time. The way that Matt prevented them from winning no matter what they did has ruined C3 for me and may have ruined Critical Role itself. I now feel like the party wins (or loses) when Matt lets them not when they deserve it. The dice rerolling for the desired outcome has become too obvious. Also, I think not playing live may have hurt them in keeping things interesting for the audience. They no longer have immediate feedback. Also taking a week off every month slows things down even more. They should do 3 live and one pre-recorded game every month if Matt needs time off. This is the first Campaign with a pre-determined outcome. The players know it and the audience knows it. That's why there are no stakes. This should never been a full campaign. This should have been a short few episodes like Calamity to get to the desired outcome necessary for the reboot and move on. Obvious Railroading is boring.

@WulfXenia

6 ай бұрын

I agree with all the points made in the video. this has been the most unserious campaign- with some exceptions- and therefore the hardest to take seriously and get invested in emotionally. Campaign 1 & 2 felt like they had bigger narratives and impacted the world of Exandria in big ways while also having deeply personal and relatable internal character moments throughout. C3 feels like a clown car that broke down in the middle of the desert and occasionally gets pushed forward when the people inside remember that they need to get somewhere eventually. I wanted to like it more than I do and I kept waiting/watching, hoping I’d get pulled in, and I kinda did when Laudna died and when the party was split up and when Ashton almost died. But even those moments were hollow because of how quickly they were resolved or in the case of the party split realizing what kind of characters and dynamics are lacking from the main party that are sorely needed. Someone else mentioned that Matt needs a break from DMing and I wholeheartedly agree. I would love to see Matt at the table in a player capacity in a long-term campaign. I think Brennan or Aabria would be a great replacement, but I think I’d also like to see someone new who is also an experienced GM that can keep the players on track and keep things from turning into a circus.

I’m surprised that the people that enjoy C3 enjoys it more than C2. C2 for me (opinion) had an incredible magic to it, the backstory’s felt very grounded even for a fantasy it felt REAL. The characters were absolutely colorful and their dynamic had me at the edge of my seat 👀

@mladavolonterka

5 ай бұрын

Exactly, I connected with c2 characters almost immediately and we also had a bunch of a holes there especially in the beginning with Molly. I loved Vox Machina as a fantasy party, but I was in love with every character of Mighty Nein, I understood them. Bells function better when they are split then when they are together.

@Jaminwaffle_art

5 ай бұрын

For me C2 characters felt very flawed, vulnerable, with deep and grounded backgrounds, it felt very natural to see them, they were simply people that lived in this world, people with their problems, skeletons and worms in their heads. Especially Caleb, he is in my opinion the best character Liam has ever created, and probably is the best PC in Critical role franchise. Wildemount was also probably the best setting that Matt had created as for me, I do like Medieval/Renaissance political intrigue + all of what happened in 2nd half made my itch scratch pretty well so yea 😊

@CC-of5xl

5 ай бұрын

I could replace this with C1 over C2. The difference isn't the campaigns it's the fans. C2 fans are just feeling about C3 what us C1 fans felt about C2

@PeteyEks

5 ай бұрын

​@@CC-of5xlI agree with you

@willowbird

5 ай бұрын

⁠@@CC-of5xlFully agree with you there

I think its both veiwer and player burnout.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Yes, we think a new setting/completely revamped Exandria for campaign 4 will help with both those

@ingridvos734

6 ай бұрын

I agree, I think everybody could use a vacation..

@ryanadkins4840

5 ай бұрын

Definitely tired of it myself

@patrickkelly2849

5 ай бұрын

What about an evil campaign? Could be interesting

@sebastianzuzi311

5 ай бұрын

@@TheCharacterSheetyeah I was thinking like a 1000 year timeskip or something just go to a completely different era of the world.

I have often found myself skipping live broadcasts and uploads of episodes some weeks, and just catching someone elses recap, and then watching the episode if there was something that interested me in it. Alot of my problems with C3 I have to do with the tone of the characters, the tone of the campaign, and the objectives of both groups, which constantly feel at odds at a great imbalance. The campaign has a more seroous narrative, a potential second apocalypse, but our main cast are a bunch of goofy goobers who actively refuse to stop dicking around. We had goofy goobers in mighty nein and it was great, but they shifted the tone of the characters when it was appropriate, even jester. I would not call c3 to be full of "jesters", just clowns not being productive and just being along for the ride of a narrative being done in the background until absolutely nessecary, which sucks. Hardly anything of note is happening, and the characters have hardly any reason to interact with the main plot. Pretty much only Orym and Imogen have reasons to be in the narrative at all while everyone else has to be given reasons to interact.

@benjamight4996

6 ай бұрын

i agree that the characters seem not intrested in the main plot

@kamikeserpentail3778

6 ай бұрын

I kind of like the feeling that any of them, or all of them, could be in favor of letting Predathos loose upon the gods.

@Ginea25

5 ай бұрын

@@kamikeserpentail3778Weirdly enough, that's one of the things I dislike the most.

@gogonster

5 ай бұрын

Very good summary of my thoughts as well

@jonbaker476

5 ай бұрын

Which is a bummer because the main plot is really interesting

I probably sound crazy when I say this…but my theory of the underlying issue is this is the third campaign in this world and so time has actively passed, and with that Matt has up the stakes by making past events become more relevant now; campaign 3 is a culmination of everything so far. The problem is, though yes, there has not been many consequences, the stakes have actually been very high consistently….which is a problem when you create a chaotic party more green than the OG CR characters. So, I actually think Matt has prioritized emphasizing the importance & repercussions of past events and it’s impact on the current plot…events that aren’t relevant to the party directly other than what they’ve inherited. Thus has made a threat far bigger than the party it’s built for. Hells Bells are always timid about approaching stake based scenarios because they’re afraid and them being chaotic further encourages divergence from the task. I just think Matt made the story much bigger than the cast/party he has at the table and it’s killing the focus. Yeah if I was a rag tag group who don’t even refer to themselves as hero’s, and I kept coming across stuff that’s eons bigger than me that I just happen to be tied up in… I’d be unfocused too, I’d be walking away…I’d be like…why me? Why do I need to fix any of this there are better people. And there’s another issue…many of Bells Hells are involved in these issue’s because it was thrust upon them, not because they chose it. It’s fine to have adventures where one falls into the rabbit hole…but over half the party shouldn’t be tied to the plot bc of something they did not choose. If your DM has to give a reason for your character to be there or be important to the story, you’re never going to truly be invested in the plot. CR3 needed a curated party for the obviously over arching nature of this campaign. Like for real, why are these characters the ones we are seeing in this story right now. What about their decisions actively led them to be the red moon fighting party. I mean, nothing really…hells bells are just people with means who happened to inherit an ongoing plot/conspiracy.

@SingularityOrbit

5 ай бұрын

This post is pure insight all the way. A DM needs to establish the tone of a campaign before the first session, in the campaign pitch, or ideally in a Session Zero. If that goes wrong, it's up to the DM to adjust the campaign to fit the party. It's hard to imagine a campaign less suited to these characters than going all-in on Ludinus/Predathos two dozen sessions in. Maybe if Ludinus' plot had kicked in around episode 90 then the party would have had a better chance to prove themselves in other, better tailored circumstances. Sure, it's a D&D campaign . . . but it's also a streaming show which works because the cast are experienced improvisors striving to create interesting character paths. It's very hard to make a character work when they have nothing to do but worry that their destiny is to fly to a moon and die. Especially when they're supposed to be a tragic-but-wacky robot, or a cursed toymaker, or a lighthearted fey trickster. And, like you said, the stakes are built on the stories of other characters who are not Bell's Hells anyway.

Honestly, at times this season, I've been like, "Matt should just say that while these clowns were goofing off, the 'B team' of Prism, Deni$e, Deanna and F.R.I.D.A already saved the world 'off screen.'"

@Xingmey

5 ай бұрын

Frida.... oh my fucking god.... yeah, we definetly needed that gay robot in the story...

Looking at C3 so far, the characters are fun but the arcs feel very messy and pointless because none of them have really unified their characters to a cause other than Laudna's revival and even then they moved on quick. The story has just been pushing these characters to the moon, anything potentially interesting or fun it feels like they're rushing past is because they're worrying about how much time they have to save the world, which makes the RP a bit slow and awkward because things happening is kinda what drives it. Hell Ashton almost offs himself and the story hasn't changed a bit, he didn't need to die or anything but other than beratement, a kick in the head and -2 con there were no consequences or change.

@vinnybonboot

5 ай бұрын

I totally agree! This might be an unpopular opinion, but I actually love the downtime episodes, where the characters have an extended amount of time where nothing particular is happening. I think it helps everyone get to know their characters better and helps solidify the group. I don't think C3 has really had any downtime like that, except maybe at the very beginning. Instead, the BBEG and the final arc of the campaign has been the primary focus pretty much from the beginning.

@bohansenboh

5 ай бұрын

To be fair, I think he's supper lucky to still be alive. Tal, like usual, just rolled like a champ.

@SingularityOrbit

5 ай бұрын

@@vinnybonboot The reason they haven't had any downtime is because they've had little "uptime," too. Looking at the earlier campaigns, they'd have a goal and pursue it, succeed and/or escape, and then they'd have downtime before their next goal. By comparison, Campaign 3 has been one slow, implausible goal (stop a moon from eating the gods! Or, stop an enhanced 20+ level wizard with high-level allies from waking up the moon . . . at around level 10!) with no reasonable way to stop and no sense of secondary goals. You gotta have ups between the downs in the rollercoaster of a campaign, and this Ruidus storyline is built like the long, slow ratcheting up the first incline . . . and it's clear the players are very nervous about their chances once they go over the edge. Which makes it very hard to enjoy shopping and drinking and asking What the F is Up With That?

@Ghostleeee

5 ай бұрын

Not the characters boring and the same as in c1 c2 Everyone has a Dramatic backstory. And why is there a connection again to the main plot? Scripted ?

@SingularityOrbit

5 ай бұрын

@@Ghostleeee As to plot connection: Imogen is connected because Matt chose her background as the link to his Ruidus campaign arc. At a guess, he probably added the part about her dreams of her mother's voice involving a red storm. That's typical Game Master work for a narrative-based campaign. It's like how Frodo's uncle just so happened to be the guy who was the main character in the Hobbit, just so happened to know Gandalf, and so he wound up inheriting the One Ring just as it became important to all of Middle Earth. How convenient! Matt could have just as easily set up Fearne's fire monkey as linked to the Red Moon, or asked Marisha to play Laudna as being manipulated to seek out what Ludinus was up to because Delilah wanted to know how he was breaching Ruidus' Divine Gate-like protections. It wouldn't be hard to come up with some strange link for any of these characters (Chetney - Werewolf - Moons, Ashton - Titans - fought against Ruidus and sealed it in rock, FCG - Aeor - ancient wizard overreach Ludinus knew about, Orym - Keyleth - Ludinus tricking Vax, Fearne - Nana Mori - some deal we don't know about).

I think a huge part of this issue is simply we should have kept Dorian he felt like a leader and a grounding force, and for once not have a fcg joke character just for change

@Ghostleeee

5 ай бұрын

Yepp the jokes are so puts place most of the time… Matt is a explaining something in a dark way, and boom one idiot break the build up

I think the thing that set the tone for this campaign for me was when Lord Eshteross was killed. The cast was super nonchalant about it. They were joking through it and seemed completely unbothered by it. It just felt incredibly disingenuous and ripped me out of the immersion of the game. There wasn't even a hint of grief, despite the fact that Eshteross clearly cared for them and they (supposedly) cared for him. Since then, I've noticed the characters have similar (though maybe not as overt) attitudes about pretty much everything in the campaign. Their character's just don't really care about anything other than their own person stuff. I still like the show, and still watch it. But at this point, I'm really just watching it for the the worldbuilding and lore. I'm really a lot more interested in the god stuff and Ruidis than I am with the actual characters. All that to say, I'm not quite as dissatisfied as some fans, but I'm definitely not as into this campaign as I was with C2.

@Kyrill-Franco-

5 ай бұрын

This is pretty much how I feel as well.

@Acaios1

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, i agree on the Eshteross part. That woman had just nearly wiped their party, and instead of warning Eshteross about it, that his trapped house will not be enough, they were asking him to make cookies... And after his death, what you said. "Oh no, ...anyway".

@dieyng

5 ай бұрын

I don't disagree, though IMO part of that is down to Matt's NPCs in this campaign being nowhere near as fun and likeable as before. It was clear that Eshteross was a good guy, but he didn't endear himself to the players in the same way other important NPCs in the previous two campaigns did, not that I cared about him the same way either tbh.

@brookdogboy840

5 ай бұрын

welp, guess I shouldn't have been reading the comments if I didn't want spoilers...:(

@rstlr01

4 ай бұрын

@@brookdogboy840😂😂😂😂😂😂

For me, a lot of the magic that made critical role special was the fact that it was live streamed. Once they permanently switched to pre-recorded, that special spark drifted away. For C3 specifically, I think so much of the campaigns problems have to do with the weird collection of characters and their inability to drive forward in the narrative. Another issue is that Matt clearly has a big story in mind but his players are refusing to engage with it. If this were a home game, Matt could pivot away and do something different but since this is a public game… It is very difficult to hard pivot like that and make it feel natural for the audience. Matt Colville had a great episode about this type of issue, showcasing how following the players & their characters led to a more exciting adventure than one where the DM tried to rail road the party into his predetermined plot.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, we bring up a lot of those points in the video because you have a lot of people that share that exact opinion.

@krim7

6 ай бұрын

I also think the people at Crit Role need to recognize that you should probably be wrapping your story up at episode 100 (or at least be headed towards the endgame). C3 has been going on for 75 episodes now. It is long in the tooth and is not nearly as popular as the last two campaigns. End strong and move on.

@krim7

6 ай бұрын

@@TheCharacterSheet it was a well made video! Just wanted to toss my two cents in :)

@jonathanhibberd9983

6 ай бұрын

I do agree that the loss of the live stream has changed the feel of the show. But they've had to make a lot of changes due to their growing audience and company. They're not the indie show streaming their home game as a lark on their friend's KZread channel just to see if anything comes of it. They're a large corporation with a massive audience. That necessitated certain changes. I seriously do not get this "they're not engaging with the story" nonsense. Campaign 2, THAT is what happens when players don't engage with a story (mainly because there wasn't one). They spent the fist 2/3 of the campaign wandering around aimlessly. Fighting weak emissaries of absent "threats" that amounted to nothing. Uk'atoah? Just a bad dream. The Iron whatever that Oban served? Never saw any hint of it except when it turned Oban into a goo-monster. And that was it, those were the only two "BBEGs" we had up until the end of the Travelercon arc and the discovery of Lucian's return. They didn't do anything for over 100 episodes! Campaign 3, they have spent nearly every episode laser focused on the Ruidus story. From episode 1 fighting furniture, all the way to fighting their way to get to the moon, there have only been a few episodes that didn't directly further the plot: Laudna's resurrection arc, and Chetney's time with the were-creatures. Everything else has been pursuing the mystery that eventually resulted in Ludinus' plot, or trying to figure out how to stop it. And they're not driving the narrative forward? They have done more in these 80 episodes than C2 did in their entire run. The narrative has been moving at a non-stop breakneck pace since episode 1. From animated furniture to a god-eating creature on the moon, every episode has taken us step by step, revealing more of the mystery, with none of it being extraneous. If you as an audience member isn't engaged with the story, that's fine. But to say that the players aren't, or that the narrative is stalled, is just factually wrong.

@laurac2556

6 ай бұрын

​@@jonathanhibberd9983 I completely agree about the fact the story is moving quickly. I often find myself frustrated that they won't slow down and focus more on character moments. This campaign has had time ticking since pretty much episode 1. That hasn't been true in either C1 or C2. I hope after the current arc, Matt will allow them time to explore character threads while also pushing the plot forward without a sword in their backs threatening to run them through if they take a breath.

As much as I adore critical role and especially the 2nd campaign, this group has **always** suffered from a distinct lack of consequences. Sure there's a big thing every once in a while but having watched the entire second series with a very technically adept dungeon master made me realize just how often Matt would waive severe situations to the side so the group could keep goofing off. It's at a point that I feel it's more detrimental than helpful to the story. It's hard to care what happens if you know there's never going to be any consequences to stupid decisions.

@lchitman7227

6 ай бұрын

I mean Matt has went on record to say that he will not stop them from having fun and if they goof off he’ll allow it. I feel like they’ve had some consequences for their actions throughout the campaign. Albeit some of them are minor but still consequences Chetney attacks the shop keeper and the gets hunted down Not having a good escape plan when getting Treshi caused them to get fucked up by Ohtohan and almost having a TPK. Also to add to that, Imogen not giving in to begin with caused the fight to be much worse than it probably should’ve been. But also by attacking Ohtohan it put her on their trails which led to her killing Esteross, while they had to get Laudna back because of their actions. Ashton not listening and taking the shard caused a fracture within the group and he got a big punishment. Losing -2 con permanently is fucking harsh especially at their level. Them not taking care of business at the key causing the party split. One of those groups almost dies because of Bor’dor and because of his actions Laudna now has to deal with Delilah again. FCG IS A WALKING CONSEQUENCE. He gets stress points which is caused by his programming and he can literally attack the party at any point if he has too many. They may not seem big to you but they have faced consequences for their actions.

@BoredMarcus

5 ай бұрын

you may not like this style, which is perfectly fine, everyone has different tastes. But it doesn't matter at all to the question why there are less viewers, because doing it like that Matt made CR the phenomenon that it is(or was). I very much doubt this is the problem, it worked for 7 years and made CR bigger than all other TTRPG formats combined, basically catapulting D&D into the mainstream on their shoulders. In these discussions people are often criticizing what they *always* dislike about it, but it was there from the start, there is no world where this is the reason.

C3 has had me feeling like it's a bad sequel to a movie. C2 had me hooked to the point of clearing my personal calendar to watch the next release... now I listen to C3 when I'm doing long road trips instead of listening to boondock radio stations that are generally in a foreign language. I feel all the points in your video were spot on, and really don't feel like I'd be missing anything if C4 started tomorrow and I'm 40 episodes behind.

The problem isn't too many Jesters. It's too many a-holes. I just don't like these characters as people, and quite frankly the gaslighting of the De Rollo girl was the last straw for me.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

That was a very, very awkward scene for sure

@RudeAlert

6 ай бұрын

What is this gaslighting you're referring to, I don't remember that.

@isaacgraff8288

6 ай бұрын

100% agree. They also seem to keep making really REALLY bad decisions for no reason. At this stage any of them could die and I wouldn't care. However with 5e rules on 'going down' and dying, plus Fearne and FCG, no one is likely to die.

@3veraj

5 ай бұрын

They didn't really gaslight her though, Laudna does NOT hate that little girl and they never turned it around on her to say it was her fault. They kinda just tried to persuade her into not telling her father because we all know how Percy feels. He would DEFINITELY try to kill her. However, at the same time that was the first instance for me where I was upset that they didn't receive any consequences.

@OdinsSage

5 ай бұрын

Being a "chaotic" character isn't "being a Jester". If anything, i would argue this team NEEDS a Jester. Someone with heart and hope. Jester was this positive force in the group, who also happened to be chaotic, but in such a delightful way. Bells hells has a lot of chaos, but not a lot of hope or heart. It's chaos without the redeeming soul. Hell, even Grog had real heart and a ferocious drive in his character which played delightfully off his chaotic nature and low intelligence.

i really liked the vibe and energy Robbie brought to the beginning of C3. i was bummed when it turned out he was just a guest character. wish he could have stayed on

Ive felt campaign 3 very hard to get into as well but i think for many reasons. 1. Rail roading, I think Matt has a clear vision for this campaign ex: BHs destroy crystals powering the Malius Key BBEG still powers it the BHs actions didn't matter. 2. Meandering characters a lot of the story has felt like its happening behind the main cast not to them, and i feel as ive read earlier only 2 characters are really invested in the arc the others really have nothing tying them to it. 3. Moral ambiguity: Vox Machina which is rightfully CRs most valuable product it had very clear Morality in the story and characters. Ex: Evil Vampires, Pillaging Dragons, God of undeath and secrets. Its very easy to invest in characters and their development if you feel you can connect with the character and feel even if they are uncertain of themselves in character that they're intentions are still moral and you feel good rooting for them. This became slightly harder in campaign two because the morality started being more grey. And in campaign 3 the characters seem very neutral with a story trying to make them good and the characters fighting the call to action. (Kinda the reluctant hero arc except eventually they have to accept they're the hero) and maybe finally they've started to accept theyre heroes but it definitely doesn't feel that way. 4. Decision paralysis: Vox Machina had keyleth and sometimes pyke as the question their decisions character but usually once the decision was made they were gung ho and ready to go. In C2 there was a lot more decision paralysis and questioning of their abilities which made story arcs feel incredibly longer because when every thing is put to a microscope the time seems to spread out. C3 seems to have just gotten a bigger lens on that microscope each decisions feels like filling out paper work for a Vogon Constructer fleet. Concise actions help drive a story. Luke Skywalker didn't sit and question going with Obi when his aunt and uncle were killed he'd already made the decision prior and was sticking to it. 5. Indecision kills story momentum and in doing so stalls character progression story progression and the feeling of movement. Good stories are like good music they eb and flow but are always moving forward. And too much indecisiveness stalls progression.

@Morcarag

6 ай бұрын

Yes! This is the comment I was looking for. I pretty much agree with each point here and feel the same way. Though I don't necessarily mind the moral ambiguity aspect itself, what I do mind is that in combination with the decision paralysis. There is "we're not sure if this is good, or if we should do it" which can logically result in "let's ponder and dither and trying to figure it out" in the real world, but for a high fantasy story it is a lot more engaging when the characters pick a direction and move on it, right or wrong.

I haven't really connected with C3 from the beginning, but I still keep up with it, as it has its moments. It's by far the lesser of the three campaigns and I haven't even finished C2 yet. For me, the problem is the characters aren't particularly interesting and they don't mesh well. Orym is just not that interesting, and being an introspective character, means Liam (probably the strongest RPer and creative player) sits quietly by to boot. Imogen is also not that interesting and this campaign has been largely the Imogen show. She just doesn't have much personality, and feels like a waste of talent like Laura's. Ashton is also a snooze. It's a middle aged man, playing an angsty teen. Ashton is predictable, and again a waste of Taliesin's roleplaying skill. Frankly he doesn't even seem that interested in playing him. Chetney is fine, but again, Travis just kind of goes with the flow most of the time. Pushing the occasional button. FCG is fun, but seems like a mismatch for Sam, who can't indulge his usual wild tendencies. He's relegated to being the "positive one". Plus his religion and his murdebot flaws are rarely used to any effect. Fearne is a good character, but Ashley isn't the strongest improviser, and she isn't utilized to her potential. Ashley like usual, seems content to be a bit of an audience member in her own game. And Laudna, while apparently a fan favorite, I don't care for at all. She's one note, "spooky" and her sing-songy voice drives me nuts. Marisha has toned it down a bit as the character has evolved but I've never cared for her. Plus, good PCs have personal goals outside of the quest at hand, and these characters don't. That's part of the reason everything feels so unfocused. No one has any drive beyond "it's a game" and "things" need to be accomplished. I also think, while maybe it's unavoidable, it's become more of a show and less of a DnD game. They're aware of it and they are all often putting on a performance rather than playing a game. The game has become secondary. That's also how I knew Candela wasn't for me. That first episode went on and on for like over an hour before a dice was even rolled. These things are roleplaying *games*, not just roleplaying. The back and forth of the two: player decision vs. chance is what makes things interesting. When the balance is shifted the whole thing falls apart. Just like it would be boring to watch only dice roll after dice roll. Matt is the only one I find pretty blameless (Vox Deus Ex Machina's aside). He's once again created an interesting and vibrant world and characters. They players are just spinning wheels. Any supposed "railroading" has been an effort to push the players along. Honestly, I wonder if the cast just isn't a bit tired of doing this, but they can't just abandon this multi-million dollar moneymaker. I'll keep watching, because even bad CR os better than most other TV. And hopefully C4 stays DnD because if they shift to Daggerheart I'll probably quit watching. Daggerheart seems even more RP heavy. That's the last thing they need.

@c_bar4830

5 ай бұрын

Well said

@EchoMirage72

5 ай бұрын

I feel like with Faerne, Matt wants to make Ashley the main focus of the campaign due to the fact that she missed so much of the first two. It was kind of noticeable with Yasha's thread when she returned, but it was just too late to focus on her at that point. However, Ashley just seems to want to play a chaos goblin rather than the character Matt kind of wants her to play.

@rstlr01

4 ай бұрын

definitely feels like a chaos goblin, It definitely feels like half the group is playing a character that they really don’t want to be.

I dont know if this will even get read but I figure wth ill put my biggest gripe here, the 3 weeks on to build momentum and then 4th week off just causes a drop in the momentum to the point that when they come back to the story of bells hells half the time I dont even remember to tune back in. I'm not into midnst or whatever that is, and candela obscura has been a major drag with 3 weeks between episodes. Kinda feel like they need to give up on that and just go back to how it was in C2 where they didnt take a week off, Lets be honest they arent taking a week off really they are trying to use that week to push another product but they are all still there working on the critical role brand, They need to focus back up on the main game and prepare for their push in C4 to be DaggerHeart.

I don’t get the comment about Fearne refusing the shard. Ashley made it very clear in-character and also in real-life discussions like 4-sided Dive that Fearne has been terrified of becoming the evil version of herself that she encountered in EXU. Of course she would refuse the shard at first, to her character it was something that might cause her to go down that path with no chance of coming back. And regarding the general chaos at the table, that’s kind of what EVERY D&D campaign is in real life. I’m in one right now, and we love having it. I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone said they wanted a campaign more their original one pre-streaming, and Matt was all too happy to oblige to a fair degree even while seemingly wrapping up plot threads of the last decade. I have had issues with the pacing at times, but the last several episodes have gotten better on that front. Maybe Matt had a talk with everyone, or maybe Travis did after seeing the falling numbers and giving a CEO talk. They are still a company, and they are still working non-stop to be profitable. So I’m pretty sure they saw where they were headed and are now trying to right the ship. If the fourth campaign starts and it ends up being more of the same, well… I guess that’ll be when I end my subscription on Twitch.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

True, but a lot of that came after the fact, and some fans (the ones that saw her explanation at least) thought that was kind of justifying just another weird decision, considering how many borderline or flat out evil things Fearne has done before hand.

@stevencavanagh7990

6 ай бұрын

my thought on that is Matt wants the Dark Ferne and he will dam well make sure he gets it. thats why he punished Ashton.

@lschantz64

6 ай бұрын

@@stevencavanagh7990 I disagree with the punish of Ashton because he wants Dark Fern, they had plenty of warnings that they two shards were not to be put together and he tried anyway, to me Ashtons move was an old school power gamer move and it "backfired" on him. For the true test we will need to see what this new arm does or can do.

@Moralatheist101

5 ай бұрын

You are right that almost every d&d campaign in real life is like C3. However, you get what you accept and expect. I like C1 because some of the best games I've been in and run, the PCs were like Vox Machina. I can't stand it when I get players that have to be so edgy that they can't understand that my npcs would NEVER ally with them, the king's guards will throw them in jail, and they will never get a better price at the tavern because of their desire to kill everyone in a bar fight, pickpocket an official of the city and not understand the concept of "tit-for-tat" in diplomacy. All it is for this new generation of players is - "I want to do this and that and I want to look cool doing it"! The DM makes the world and the problems in that world - it's up to the players to make the story and unfold it. Unfortunately, C3 is all muddled with everyone going their own direction.

@enso8379

5 ай бұрын

If we take her at her word that she is afraid of becoming evil, I think being caviler about potentially making a pact with the champion of Asmodeus is going to do more to set her on that path than taking the shard. Unless you make the argument that she's perfectly fine selling her soul as long as the salesperson is sexy and charming.

Sometimes the plot doesn't even seem to click with the cast, who is spending loads of time on their phones rather than being invested in the story. To me, that's an indication of lost personal investment and poor group dynamics.

I had some issues because the story is to big for the group. Slowly they are getting there, but the Quest was out of their league. A handful regular adventurer who want to stop the death of gods? Like WTF? This doesnt feel attainable. Every progress they make isnt changing how far the goal is. Half of them dont even care about the gods. Its difficult to grasp the stakes. If not for some methods the group might have sided with the big bad. Someone who survives if you throw something with the size of a building from the sky, has hundreds years of planning and a Godkiller on his side. This is a multidimensional threath that could change the cosmology. This is something that should make devils and angels fight side by side, while demons roam freer than ever before. Something threatening the entire pantheon has consequences. Idk, maybe it would be better, if they would focus on a more personal side of the conflict. If the goal would be to just save a person important to the group who got caught up in this conflict.

@Morcarag

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree that this is one of the biggest issues with C3. When you give level 5 characters what feels like "hey, open this door to the CR20 fight" of course they are going to stand outside the door and scuff their heels. Narratively there needed to be 2 major changes: 1; lieutenants and sub-goals for the BH's to have gone after and 2; Matt providing in-world motivation showing the results of the big bad's plans. To me everything leading up to the key seemed to be phrased as "BIG RED COUNTDOWN. You have X days until the shit hits the fan." And then that day came, the heroes didn't stop the bad guy, and... we don't see any consequences. Sure they may be happening, but Matt has done nothing to bring them to anyone's attention. There should be reports of cities being overrun, deaths piling up, major world founding magics failing in ways that are actively hurting people and give urgency to things. But it feels like Matt basically hit pause and said "oh... yeah I guess take whatever time you want, the main plot will be waiting for you when you feel like coming back to it." Based on how everything had been up to the solstice confrontation I was really thinking Matt was going to do some sort of "act 1, the bad guy wins" then "Act 2 starts 10 years later" and we catch up with the heroes dealing with how the world has changed and trying to right things. This could have been so much better narratively. The characters could have a big level jump (maybe to level 13 - 15 ish); the world would have totally changed and it would be really fun for the audience and characters to discover the apocalypse versions of previously beloved places / characters; there would be a strong obvious motivation for why BH would want to fix things; it would be apparent that the Big Bad plan was in fact bad and that removing the gods (or at least releasing Prodothos) had seriously bad consequences; it would have allowed for previously powerful characters to be killed off / taken out of action so that BH had to step up without major help; it would have been a big new change they hadn't played with before; etc. etc. etc. I would LOVE to have seen what Matt and the crew could have done with this direction instead of what we got.

Campaign 2 was not that good either. But the thing I'm actually asking myself as a DnD player, is how the fact you can't really relate campaign 3 to an actual DnD game is impacting viewership. C1 was totally a normal DnD game, you even had maps drawn on paper in the begining, and every DnD lover would enjoy watching it, but in C3 there is so much homebrew, house rules and production effects that you don't even know what game they are playing. From a DnD player, it's much less interesting because you know that's not how your hobby is like.

I just dont enjoy it as much the story is kind of bland. It has its moments no doubts but nothing like campaign 2. Also to be honest the community has become so toxic i dont like being part of it anymore.

@gyorgyor7765

6 ай бұрын

As someone who doesn't watch CR, although I watched the Amazon cartoon, what is toxic about its Fandom?

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

We wouldn't say the fan base is toxic (especially compared to other fandoms out there), but we will say their has been more discontent with this campaign than we have ever seen on the major outlets (twitter, reddit, etc)

@nikp3572

6 ай бұрын

@@gyorgyor7765 There a large portion of their fans that very toxic towards anything negative you say about anything about the show. I seen it get pretty ugly

@laurac2556

6 ай бұрын

​@@gyorgyor7765If you hang out in the wrong places on social media, you'll find the toxicity. I've been a fan since C1 and it's easy to avoid the drama if you make an effort. There are great discord servers and if you narrow down your Twitter followers, you find nothing but good discussion and awesome fanart.

The thing to remember is, BH is being viewed as Expendable Personnel. They are cannon-fodder for Vox Machina and the Nein. While we know that these are the next set of characters by the players, in the world they are unimportant adventurers who stumbled into a story bigger than them, one that most would die from. So if they succeed, they become legends, but if/when they fail, the real heavy hitters can use their information and save the world. Again. These are the consequences of VM and MN, BH are just caught in the cycle.

To be honest not every Champaign is lightning in a bottle plus hell lots of the players want to be a bit chaotic and their characters are avoiding the main plot but yeah hell everyone who plays dnd does this we’re mad because they have the same issues regular players have easy fix consequences. Heck all the dnd controversy we had this definitely is in the back of most peoples heads as well

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

True, we didn't even mention the OGL Drama but I'm sure that is still in the back of some fans minds.

I've had the reverse reaction to most people, I found the first 40 episodes tough to watch but have increasingly enjoyed it since then, I never watch it live anymore though as it's not live which means I can watch it over a few days which is better time wise for me.

I am personally still emotionally invested in the gang, mostly due to the story taking some serious turns as they move forward (yet to be seen). Also, after all of the joy CR has given to me, I cannot have ill feelings toward what they have, and will, accomplish. Just my opinion.

I actually have enjoyed the past few episodes in Whitestone and the Feywild. From a narrative perspective, sure, I would have liked to see them address the Ruidus plot more head on, but from a character perspective, BH clearly weren't up to the task, and it didnt feel like they would have earned a different outcome to the previous Ludinus encounter. However it does genuinely feel like the conflict over the fire shard has brought some issues into the open, and allowed real conversations and growth to take place. That wasnt going to happen without a trip to the feywild, so it totally works for me.

@SingularityOrbit

5 ай бұрын

I've also enjoyed this Feywild trip and the team building exercises more than I expected. They're level 11 now, halfway through a typical D&D campaign if not more; it's time they understood each other and became a team, even if their personal problems still cause them hiccups. The issue is that the campaign may be finally getting better, but next episode is 82. It feels like a lot of opportunities for adventures and intrigues has gone by with not a lot to show for it. That may be an inaccurate statement, actually, considering that they've been in numerous fights, traveled multiple continents, and met some remarkable people. However, it weirdly didn't feel like much was going on a lot of the time from an in-the-moment, episode-by-episode, subjective experience. Something's just not gelling this time around, but it may be a lot better in 2024 because we've slogged through a lot of sluggish play to get to Ruidus. Then again, I think a lot of us loved Campaigns 1 and 2 because of the gameplay before battling Vecna and meeting the Somnovem, and that early phase of Campaign 3 seems to be largely over now.

@dieyng

5 ай бұрын

I actually agree with that. I didn't see it as dicking around. It felt like something the group genuinely needed, because of their issues with each other and it's also clear to me that we haven't seen the last of that as well.

@SingularityOrbit

5 ай бұрын

@@dieyng They definitely needed this time to talk, and your comment made me realize something. With Vox Machina, the group felt like they were doing what made sense to the characters in each moment. With the Mighty Nein, the group fully embodied their characters most of the time, to the point that they felt like the characters' actions were obviously what each of them would do in those moments. With Bell's Hell's, and this may just be my sense of the vibes at the table, but it all feels more forced. The play feels more like struggling to stay inside the lines of the characters they've designed, as though they're not good fits for the players at times. Seen that way, the campaign may feel off because everyone was self-conscious, and didn't want to use narrative too quickly -- after all, once a character's mysteries are all explored then they're less interesting to the audience, or so the theory goes. Now that they're going to Ruidus, though, it feels like they've just about run out of time for exploring their backstories. That may have forced a moment of, "Oh no, the plot is taking serious control of game time, and I don't want to be like Gern Blanston, having to force important character arc information into the end of the story." By taking a few sessions in the Feywild, though, and taking advantage of Ashton's grievous mistake, they may have caught up to where they feel their character revelations and choices should be at this level of the story.

You make a point about the chroma conclave, and campaign 1 not "goofing off" but thats exactly what they did. Just from the episode span of the Chroma Conclave arc, ep 39-83, thats 56 episodes to knock over 4 Ancient dragons. Practically half of the campaign was spent on them. The animation certainly polishes it to be more palatable for the typical audience. But they spent soooo many sessions goofing around and seeking out the vestiges to even have a chance at the dragons. And thats the real issue with Campaign 3, is that there isn't something building up to the big throw down. Vox Machina had Vestiges, Mighty Nein had Obann to stop from rallying Tharizdun's allies. As for campaign 3, we get the events that lead to the moon and then we simply are trying to get there with no pawns to knock over or items to gather. I don't think Campaign 3 is as bad as people are making it out to be, but I get that there isn't quite as much of the build up as we might of hoped. Same with Campaign 2's Lucian which felt out of left field and if it wasn't for how interesting and dangerous Eiselcross was, we'd be having and in a lot of ways did have issues with feeling invested in the build up. Lucian just happens to have a lot of fan investment to get a buy in Campaign 2.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Watching those episodes while it did take 56 episodes to kill 4 ancient dragons, they didn't just completely stop going atfer them for 5 episode stretches. At most they had a very occasional shopping episode, but a lot of it was hunting down leads, trackin down the next dragon, or finding the weapon they needed to kill it, and it was all in service of the main storyline.

@EchoMirage72

5 ай бұрын

There were about 10 episodes of CR2 where the Mighty Nein went into the Happy Fun Ball and goofed in there, and every time it was mentioned Travis wanted to stay and find the Mines. In total the Happy Fun Ball took up around 11 or 12 episodes of CR2. There were also episodes of CR2 after the initial run in Aeor where the Might Nein went back and faced down Trent Ikithon. That stretch of episodes took the characters from Aeor to Nicodramus, to Rexentrum, back to Nicrodramus, through the Happy Fun Ball and the Fire Plane, to Zidash, to The Grove and then finally back to Eiselcross. We also had to sit through, for some reason Veth's family being there, and totally forgotten about. People are literally rewriting the history of CR2 and how disjointed it was. But it doesn't even come close to being as disjointed as CR3 is. As has been mentioned here, we have both Vox Machina and The Mighty Nein being inserted into the campaign for no reason whatsoever. Laudna dies? Just call up Keyleth to come and get them to take them to Pike. Oh Percy has a problem with that? Because the Bells Hells came with Keyleth Vex doesn't have a problem with potentially bringing Delilah back. Vex and Pike saying that Deliliah doesn't seem to be there no more? Percy literally drops the weapons of Whitestone and lets them stay in his home. Later on literally allowing Faerne and Chetney to break the glass to his family home. This campaign is Matt's Opus Magnum, he's on the record as stating that in a 4-side Dive episode. What it really comes down to though is this campaign is going to suffer because of that.

There were plenty of times Vox and Nein delayed..... happy fun ball, Terry Arc....

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Those are the two main examples from each, and both came during lulls in the main plot. But you do make a good point

@PeteyFromPallet

6 ай бұрын

@@TheCharacterSheet also Tibs from Vox with all his trying to power game ... pie eating contest in EXU, i get what you are saying with Bells but all the Campaigns are connected, Bells is more like a Delta Team, they're in shadows of older Legends who have done this world saving dance already , theyre doing thier best.

Honestly, I think a factor in C3 being, or at least feeling, more goofy than C2 is that a lot of characters in C2 were "Serious" characters with a bunch of baggage, and some (most) of the players wanted to switch it up for C3. Now it's Goofy characters with a bunch of baggage, but mostly different players with different baggage. I especially get that sense from Ashley - who, imo, is doing an exellent job with Fearne having a just plain different morality set from most mortals, which is how I always think Fae should be portrayed.

I agree with you. It's the constant chaos that did it for me. It's like playing with people that have to be constantly "edgy". It's aggravating and it feels like the party doesn't want to play the campaign. I get it that the PCs have agency - but at some point, the world that the DM created is being ignored for the sake of that "edginess". One Scanlin was great. One Jester was great. 7 Scanlins and 7 Jesters...not so great.

This video put to words some thoughts I've been thinking about loosely, but I don't think they are really things worth addressing, really. At the end of the day, we are watching a bunch of friends dick around and play a game at their own pace, entertain each other. As Matt Mercer said, if it ends up entertaining us, that's great, but their core priority is (or should be, really) them enjoying their game.

C1 = "Hey, we can make some money by simply playing our usual home game live on the internet!" C2 = "Hey, let's do that again, but make everything better, thanks to the foresights of everything we've learned!" C3 = "Yeah, let's cash in one last time on this thing while we set up our exit strategies..." Also, pretty sure that whatever the players do, C3 will end in a cataclysmic "reshaping of the gods, magic and reality" that coincides with them changing to their own TTRPG system for "C4" (which will most likely be run in short seasons like Candela).

i feel like for me as a fan, and a avid watcher, partically in this year with new video games, new TTRPG IPS, new actual plays, new tv shows, new movies, that its been hard giving my time to each and every episode. If I wasnt watching barbie or oppenhiemer or playing baldurs gate 3, alan wake 2 , or even watching midst, im still behind on campaign 3. Hell D20 finally released sophmore year on youtube and thats still on my backlog.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, for whatever reason, post pandemic viewing patterns for many things have changed in a way that we really just can't fully explain yet!

@jasjotparmar4719

6 ай бұрын

@@TheCharacterSheet Exactly. There’s been such a saturation of media releases.

Campaign 3 had my favorite start of all the campaigns, however it has definitely been hard for me to stick with it. Its like the energy or vibe is a bit different. Which is to be expected, they have grown a massive amount and have a lot of irons in the fire so to speak. As much as I hate to say it, they should probably take a break from 3 to 4 so they can relax and go back to playing the game just for fun. And I feel like if they go for a C4, maybe do something like Starfinder. change up the setting a bit. I love Crit Role and honestly hope they continue, but I also dont want them to hate their "dream jobs". Which is why I think for this Campaign we see a lot of chaotic characters, I feel that with running a company and playing the game live, some of them wanted to take a less responsible or plot driving character. So they could basically auto pilot this season, however we have like most of cast that went that route. Again though, I think most of them are just a bit tired, and some of them are just good at chaos. And that ended up with a lot of chaos characters this run. We as fans need to not bug them for another season right away, like give them a year to work on the behind the scenes stuff.

It's also worth noting there may be outside factors. D20 and other actual play shows have been gaining popularity and probably drawing viewers. Plus the OGL controversy drove many away from DnD and toward other games entirely.

@OdinsSage

5 ай бұрын

This is a valid point. I know getting more into D20 has pulled my interest from critrole a bit. I still keep up with Bells Hells, but thus campaign/these characters don't hold me like the D20 campaigns have. Also, D20 has amazing rewatchabaility.

@Ghostleeee

5 ай бұрын

That’s not the reason at all, the show is just bad. -Bad plot - bad characters - to many stupid jokes

@evilkep7390

4 ай бұрын

Too many crappy guests

Honeslty, I actually just came back to bells hells exactly because of the ashton shard debacle and the "goofing off" team bonding. Because thats my biggest issue with this new campaign, as FCG said, Ashton doesn't care about anybody. Back in C2 we had the fight between Beau and Caleb over the plate (and almost everything) but that was when the group barely knew each other. C3 is closing into 90 episodes, and characters still have their little groups, which have very few interactions within them. Laudna interacts almost exclusively with the "three witches", Ashton talks to FCG, and we have Chetney and Fearne being the only ones that look out for everyone, and so, Ashton does a "bad" thing and the team finally has to recognize "I've been trusting you by default, not with anything important". Talisein said in the 4-sides dive after their live show that M9 felt like a cohesive group and I agree. BH feel like a bunch of randoms that have had to run in the same direction without considering who it is they are running with. I don't care about them goofing off, I care that prior to December, they could have separated them again, and it'd feel like they were meeting for the first time, again. Personally it's exhausting for Chetney to be the heart of the group because Orym just cant take any more responsibility over the group than just keeping them alive, and no one reaching a hand out.

They didn't do a session 0 to figure out how everyone's characters connected to each other and to the main plot which is criminally negligent for an organization as large and narratively driven as CR. Compare Campaign 3 to Exu Calamity and Baldur's Gate 3. The main characters of Exu Calamity had logical connections to each other and the setting. There was a clear goal to achieve, a time limit, competent gameplay, and believable acting. Baldur's Gate 3 has a logical, time-sensitive reason for the party to group together, stay together, and travel from location to location.

I still watch C3... but I admit its been tough to care. Personally, I dont know why. I think starting off with C2 set some kind of godlike standard that will never be achieveable. That being said, im all for more M9 reunions and side stories.

@alsoCaius

5 ай бұрын

i agree, like for some reason i even prefer the lower quality cameras and mics they used in C2 lmao

@AlexRenee91

5 ай бұрын

C2 came at a time i needed connection the most and i connected to it. I also find myself sometimes bored in c3 with the choices made BUT every story has highs and lows in order to get to the final destination. You have to deal with the rough boring patches to find the exciting parts. I personally feel people abandoned it because of expectations of someone elses art. Rather than just enjoying that, someone took the time to curate a story to entertain those of us who want to watch. I have faith in this story and the cast and i have so much fath in Matt that he will bring this all full circle and blow our socks off and we will be left saying "so thats why they did all that dumb stuff" but if it doesnt happen then ill still be content with the content they took the time to make for us.

@Saren_5

Ай бұрын

Mm honestly after year I think I realise that i watched critical role FOR the second campaign and just the second I know that is an awful thing to say especially since I like all the players and DM. But everytime I try to get into the 1 and 3 I just can't manage to stick guess I'll have to hope campaign 4 will hoc

Okay, I’m not going to sift through the comments so apologies if anyone else has pointed this out, but you’re reaching for causation where we can only find correlation. C2 had a series of specific events that set it up for the reception that it got: namely we were in the middle of a terrifying pandemic, isolated for huge stretches of time, and desperate for an escape. Don’t get me wrong, I live and die by Caleb, but that’s because I got into CR right when I was most desperate for hope and for not fearing for my kids. C3 is a rollicking riot and I love it, but I’m back to an early morning so listening until 2am is not on. The commute these days is much farther than between me and my computer. I’m listening to C3 as often as I can and it’s wonderful. Different but wonderful. Like things are in the games at my table. It doesn’t matter in the slightest. False equivalencies.

It feels like a far more sanitised campaign that Matt has been steering in terms of narrative

I feel like part of it is that everything is just so vague. If Predathos gets unleashed and kills all the Gods it's hard to imagine what the actual effects would be, to the point where the characters (and the cast) don't even know if they care whether it happens or not, after almost 80 episodes. The only way to get on Ruidus is via that "red beam" shooting up into the sky. Can you just walk into it? If you get on the moon, is that it and can you not go back? What is their goal once they get there? Why could we not teleport 10 episodes ago, but now it's all good? Are there any consequences for waiting to go there? The best thing we get is Gods giving the characters random visions once every while where they say, "you should really go there, though I'm not going to help you at all." Then the cast just doesn't really know what everyone's abilities and strenghts are, and how they'd plan situations ahead. In previous campaigns they all knew most of the stats and abilities of the other cast's characters. In C3 it was only like 1 or 2 episodes ago that they figured out Fearne has really high insight. Taliesin in combat rolls 5 dice, then says, "oh this will be weird and fun," and then tells Matt, "the rainbow sparkles, uh, start going off in my head, and the things are shooting out, can I do something with the Time thing here?" and the rest of the cast has absolutely no fucking clue what is happening and are just lookingn sort of annoyed. FCG has like 3 abilities, and they have almost no impact at all. Nobody seemingly really knows each other's utility, and that makes them very hesitant to go into confrontations. And then the world just seems to not care that much either. Where are all the level 20s from previous campaigns? We only see a handful of PCs in the confrontation with Ludinus, and then they get unceremoniously instagibbed by random BS that feels like it wouldn't have happened if the characters were actually being controlled by their respective cast members. No accounting for the rest of Vox Machina or M9, even though this is a very obvious threat that every character in the world would be aware of. It just all seems a bit off, even though the story is trying very hard to be interesting.

I feel like they are stalling for the release of Daggerheart so then campaign 4 when they can make the switch. I gave up on the campaign months ago now and just watch the recaps put out here.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

We're happy we can help!

I agree. I main issue I’ve seen is the nearly complete lack of combat in campaign 3. At this point in either the two previous campaigns those parties had fought so many more threats and arch bosses. Vox machina by ep 81 had killed a beholder/mind flayers, then the briarwoods, and had just finished killing the giant red dragon thordak. Without looking it what has bells hells fought outside Otohan and the shade mother(they didn’t kill) I genuinely have a hard time remembering. Does Ludinus count that the spire?

I stay pretty much caught up, and enjoy the campaign more often than not, but I definitely do not feel the same connection as C2 or even C1. I agree that most of the points in the vid are reasons for the lack of interest, and that most of the characters do not seem too driven/focused on the potential world-ending event, but personally I think the biggest issue is that most of the characters' backstories are "boohoo I have the saddest backstory": "I was raised as an orphan cause my parents screwed me over." "Yeah, but my parents gave me to an evil lady who killed me." "Sure, but I got my head exploded and repaired wrong." "I lived alone and was an outcast for 20 year because I am a spider lady... And also when I was a kid, everyone made fun of me, too!" "I live in constant pain! How about that?!" "Well, the evil lady who killed me is actually in my head and was my only 'friend' for decades." To me these 2 ^ are the worst , but every single person has a sad backstory with Chet as the only possible exception (even he was kicked out of his toy making gig). And I get that having party members with baggage is important, but it seems to be too much of a focus for its own good. Other campaigns had sad backstories, but it didn't seem to be the only driving force. There came a point where I got tired of it, yet the song and dance carried on. I know it might seem harsh, but having every single thing go bad in your backstory just isn't good character design imo. It wouldn't hurt the group if there is a serious consequence/death soon, and the backup character had a strong moral compass to direct the party a bit because he/she was raised on a farm and chose to become a soldier, with no real heartbreaking backstory. This might cover the Consequences, Jesters, and Focus issues noted in the video, and it could give another side to the group that isn't focused on "woe is me." But here I am, still watching their show and watching videos about their show! I hope I am not alone in this thinking in hopes that they might change it up a bit going forward. - Side note to wrap this huge comment up that will likely trigger a lot of people: I think the LGBTQ+ characters are overplayed in this campaign, too. And I am not saying some of them can't be, but when all of them are (yes even Chet flirts with dudes too), including Matt's little personal insert, Allura (who is awesome), it gets to be mawkish and tiresome. Alright, that's it!

@c_bar4830

5 ай бұрын

I would like to state that I don't hate any of the characters, and that I know having tragic backstories is usually DnD 101. I just don't think it should be the main player focus all the time. AND this was just my thoughts on why C3 might not be as viewed as the other campaigns.

It's weird that anyone would feel like the C3 party is too goofy. For me if anything, there are too many bland characters. Especially in early episodes, I felt like the ONLY characters whose secrets and backstories I was interested in and have been consistently pleased by were Ashton, Fearne, and Laudna. In M9, I found everyone compelling. I have found some of those other characters had more to offer later, but I'd be lying if I said I was ever as interested in Liam's current character at any point as I was in Caleb Widowghast immediately. I think FCG is funny, but I never cared about him like I did Nott because he was JUST funny. Even with the murderbot revelations he feels pretty one note. Imogen is interesting, but there is something very low key and understated about her as a character and I don't think it plays to Laura's strengths. I wish as a viewer, she was playing a character that makes bigger, bolder, more colorful decisions because quite frankly she's just better at that role in the cast than Ashley is, as much as I love Ashley as a human being. I'm sure as an RP group, they just want to try different stuff, but as an audience member, I wish they'd play to their strengths more. To me, I think that's all it is. They always play goofy weirdos who mess around too much. That isn't new.

@LisaGrimm-LG

5 ай бұрын

When talking about characters, "goofy" and "bland" aren't necessarily mutually exclusive terms) When "goofiness" and "chaos" are pretty much the only defining traits of any character, it still makes a character bland. Jester was chaotic and somewhat goofy, but it was obvious that she was a bit naive and had a good heart underneath all that. As colourful in appearance as the Bells Hells are, their oversaturated behaviour tends to mask complete lack of depth in most of the "chaotic" characters. They never delved beyond the one-line character concept, and that's a bit sad.

@paxtenebrae

5 ай бұрын

@@LisaGrimm-LG I think if I was only complaining about FGC, you'd be bang on. My dissonance on this is I think the real core problem is that the twins are not playing characters that are dramatically big enough to fill the space this campaign. The blandness is coming from people that still have depth, they're just still not compelling anyway. Imogen has an interesting backstory, but she's too reserved for Laura to carry on an episode to episode basis like she did in C1 and 2. Orym...I don't want to be mean, but he sort of feels more like an NPC to me than a hero, even 50 episodes into the show. So I really don't think the problem is "oops, all Jesters" like is asserted in the video. I think most of the higher chaos characters are fine actually. Laudna, Ashton, even Fearne is mostly fine IMO. So it seems I'm almost having a reverse take on the problem it seems like, thus my confusion before.

I'm enjoying campaign 3, but just like the jump from C1 to C2, all the campaigns have been vastly different so obviously, they won't hit everybody. That's cool. I think it's fun to see a different party dynamic, but I undertand all the presented frusturations people have. But yeah, as you guys said, C4 will come eventually, and I bet it is going to be completely other type of awesome and maybe it'll have more mass appeal. x3

long time fan, ever since campaign 1 here. Love CR, still watch it live every thursday, but truth be told, yes, Im less engaged now. For me its (hot take incoming) too much role playing. Im not against rp, in fact I believe its key, but in campaign 3 its been mostly rp. Mostly moments shared between the characters hanging around, learning about each other a bit more. The story progresses very slowly like this and most episodes dont feel like much happens tbh. Now its not like what I seek is just battle after battle, those drag on by themselves too. What we need are meaningful moments/objectives that impact the story or character development, hopefully through concrete action. still love CR tho and the BH, its just objective observation.

@kelvan1138

6 ай бұрын

I am the weird one where I don't even like the RP episodes on the whole. It isn't helpful to me as a GM. But Matt has really cool combat encounters and I love those.

I hate how people who point out the drop in viewership don’t address the fact that they are comparing it to pandemic numbers. Of course the numbers in 2021 were higher, people didn’t have anything else to do. Now that the world is somewhat back to normal, people aren’t home as much to watch every week, which would cause a drop in viewership.

6:40 I can't fault them for having this fear. Because this is exactly the mistake M9 did, rushing to the final arc ignoring the Ukatoa plot and Ceberus plot. I think they are worried about doing that again.

@daggarflynn9637

5 ай бұрын

I think they and we should still be in Campaign 2 O_o I mean, the Ukatoa one-shot was fun but let's face it: Bo's first pit fight was more suspenseful.

@NisansaDdS

5 ай бұрын

@@daggarflynn9637 I agree I was quite upset with M9 for the skipping. Especially when Matt even gave them a final chances with both plot lines. Ikithon trying to "talk" in two encounters and Avanthika attacking them on their way north. They brushed both of those opportunities away. If you listen to the wrap up, Matt sadly talks about how awesome it would have been if the city came to material plane ie a proper high level BBEG fight.

@ForeverDegenerate

5 ай бұрын

@@NisansaDdS Except no. That was, clearly, not what Matt was pushing for despite how cool it would have been. It was clear to both the players and the audience that Matt was pushing for them to end the campaign as quickly as possible. He practically forced them to ignore everything and go straight to the end game. You could tell the players wanted to do more. Explore more. Further other plot lines. But Matt was constantly saying, "Time's Ticking." They weren't going to let a mistake like Felderwin happen again. Not to mention the personal stakes of who the BBEG was. Matt basically gave them no choice but to end the campaign. And nothing made that more obvious than the throw-away final fight of the entire campaign just so that wouldn't be a loose end. The entire ending of C2 felt, to me, like it wasn't supposed to end there, nobody wanted it to end there (not even Matt), but that, for whatever reason, it HAD to end there. The end of C2 felt unbelievably forced by circumstances outside their control. Now I haven't watched C3 in a long while. I do intend to go back and catch up/finish it, but I stopped around the time they did Calamity. So I can't say this with certainty. But it does sound like the players don't want to feel rushed into an end game like they did in C2. And it seems like Matt, conversely, doesn't want to rush them like did with C2. Based on the complaints within this video and this comment section, it seems to me like all parties involved realized they royally screwed the pooch with the end of C2 and now that they don't really have anything forcing their hand, they don't want to make that mistake again. However, it seems, to me, that they grossly over-corrected to the point of potentially alienating their audience.

The problem with C3 is that the story doesn't move forward quickly, and the team does not have a leg up or clesr goal. In C1, heroes journey. we have briorwood. killed them, then the conclave have 4 dragons, get vestiges, kill them, move to ripley, then to vecna. story keep moving forward to bigger bbe all arc done in like 3 to 4 weeks game time In have one main story. War. saw spire attacked, molly died. then run to xorhas, gain trust in dynasty lose and gain yasha. save veth, stop war. all these arc in 2 or 3 weeks. *Covid hits* story changes to one bbe lucian abruptly ended with no resolution to the caleb story. however In C3 the story seems to be an exploration quest. Solstice. 70 episodes still solstice no new information gained abt the moon no clear goal except go to moon and see what happens. All seems like a preludes to next big thing but still not resolved in 3 weeks. Im getting tired of waiting. not to mention not one character 'main' plot has been resolved. by this time percy, scanlan, grog yasha, beau, ford veth storyline completed. C3 not one back story, put forward take centre staged and resolved.

The viewship of CR is likely not the same as it once was. Yet once the campaign episode is uploaded on youtube. It averages 360k to 1 million views on youtube. And on twitch 60k to 300k views.

I agree with the Too Many Jesters idea but still watch every episode though I find myself easily distracted.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Nothing wrong with that!

I think that the video vervalized a lot of my feelings towards the current campaign. Since its beginning this campaign has felt like it was just the cast going through the motions, not really connected themselves to the story just trying to find ways to entertain themselves as the story happened around them unheeded. Matt seems to have designed a good stoey arc, but the rest just dont feel invested in it as players. If this were a normal TT game and not a flagship production of an entertainment company i think that they would have abandoned this and just gone off to play something else.

@Jon_FM

6 ай бұрын

I totally agree with your points. My biggest frustration as a DM is watching players sabotaging a story(even other player's stories) to the point where it starts to become a problem and I lose momentum when that happens and motivation. Going off rails is wise, actively going against your character's stated position every episode or flip flopping motivations... confused the life out of me. Second, the OGL and post D&D hangover has really killed my interest in D&D almost entirely, to the point I shut down my own streams entirely, and stopped watching Critical Role mostly. The Animation and the M9 Reunion were the only things I watched with any anticipation. I have liked some of the chaos, and I like that they have dealt with things in bigger ways with this group. But Bells Hells suffered a lot for having the Calamity series last year come out and kind of completely one up the longer series.

For me it's a few things, I'm 100% on the get-out-of-jail-free cards, and at times this campaign feels like Vox Machina 2.0, and not Bells Hells, (though Grog vs Otohan might be a good fight). Added to that are the times where it's felt like a railroad, the Malius Key where F.C.G (acted in my opinion), completely out of character, when he tried to dispel the Color on Caleb instead of Healing Keyleth. till that point he had always chosen to heal first when it was his friends, but here he tried to help a perfect stranger over a seriously injured friend. Then there's Ashley who has said she doesn't want the shard as she doesn't want Ferne to become Dark Ferne Matt response by given Ashton a permanent -2 feels like a punishment for going off script, as I do get the feeling some of it's scripted. as I said Ferene said she doesn't want the Shard but Nobody else even offerd to try, No it was going to be Ferne end of the Discussion. whether Ashley wanted it or not. good on Tailsan for what he did. And we all know Imogen is going to screw over the entire Party/World because she can't accept her Moms a bad guy, or at the last minute her Mom will have a change of Heart. These are just a few of my takes.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, it adds to the whole not really having a deep knowledge of any of these characters with possibly Orym and Imogen as exceptions, since everyone else acts so chaotically

I honestly find myself enjoying C3 more than C2. The adventure is definitely more epic and fun, plus the team gives off some real Guardians of the Galaxy vibes to me. C2 had long stretches of boredom for me and made it pretty easy to skip a dozen episode that I never bothered to revisit.

@SirEdgard1013

6 ай бұрын

I feel the same way! I understand the complaints with C3, but I've been having the same issues since C2, with Bells Hells at least it is way more fun.

@Zedge-yq9sd

6 ай бұрын

I disagree! Mighty nine really grew together as people and grew into a found family. I would recommend giving it another try. Plus take any two characters from the might nine and there is a complex and loving relationship there with many story beats and interact ions to point to. Which is something I've found the C3 characters lack. Especially this late in the campaign.

@iceyice

5 ай бұрын

I think the problem is, C2 was more child friendly and C3 has been more adult oriented

@NovelVanguard

5 ай бұрын

@@SirEdgard1013I disagree but I respect your opinion. Also I like c3 to just not as much as c2

@Minisloth27

Ай бұрын

​@@iceyicewhat? C2 was more child friendly?? How?

I felt like i understood the map and locations in campaign 2. I have absolutely no idea where any of the locations are in relation to each other in the part of the world C3 happens in. But overall the themes for C3 are different than the other parties. They have a focus on emotional support and trying to mend the brokenness of the characters through trust and learning to open up to eachother. I think very recently the majority of BH has gone into the 'embrace your darkness' route, which is interesting but feels weird based on what vibes we have been seeing previously.

@spensirmclife6549

3 ай бұрын

I agree that Marquet doesn't feel as fleshed out, like we know barely anything about the Stratos Throne or Lambent Path despite those two being the biggest powers in Marquet. It feel like Marquet is more of an obligatory setting because it was the next biggest continent without a campaign set on it and it is mostly being used as a stage to tell the Ruidus story rather than drawing a narrative from the setting.

Nice to know I'm not the only one who this campaign just didn't click with.

While I find myself more invested in C3 than C2, I can also see your point. I do agree that they have been "lucky" in regards to having the higher level characters from prior campaigns to help them out, I would also like to see them go away as they appear to be a crutch and it is getting old.

@kendalldesouza4595

6 ай бұрын

But what have they done besides basically be their essek and ferry them around? It's never like 'oh BH is in a losing battle and suddenly grog leaps onto the map and saves the day' the closest to that was keyleth being 99% murdered and vax getting pokeballed

@lschantz64

6 ай бұрын

@@kendalldesouza4595You are not wrong, I just liked the separation between all the campaigns up to this point, personally I think this is Matt's way of bringing C1 and C2 into the game for the big bang send off for when C4 changes over to Daggerheart with a clean slate.

@kendalldesouza4595

6 ай бұрын

@lschantz64 fair enough. I guess to me they've always been mixed. Like the traveler was artagann whom vox machina helped bring over, the M9 finding keyleths mom, allura and kima, doors lol. Also it's just the logics of like how do you have a world ending crisis but then the people who protect the world just don't turn up? That's like Darkseid pulling up to invade earth but the justice league dont show up?

Can’t speak to twitch 3 years ago but it’s pretty easy to see C3 is likely on par with late C2 videos on KZread. Almost none of those C2 videos from 2021 (the last 40 or so) have YET to crack 2M views. So whether they hit 1M in a month or two compared to recent C3 eps, they petered out if 30 months later they haven’t accumulated an additional 1M. All three campaigns so far have started with pretty good viewership and then drastically dropped by as much as 30% in the first 15 episodes before stabilizing, but then dropping in the last third again. On KZread, the last 40 eps of VM and MN have HALF the viewership than the average viewership of the first 40 eps of each campaign. It looks like holding regular viewer interest over a three year campaign has always been a problem for them, not just this campaign. And chances are…they don’t care. 9-6 years later, most Vox Machina eps are below 3.5M views, 5-3 years later most Mighty Nein eps are below 2.5M. Bells Hells eps from a year ago are at 1.8M; what numbers will they have when they are as old as comparable VM and MN vids? Probably comparable. Why twitch views are down though? Could be anything. Maybe their youngest millennial viewers are parents now and don’t have 5 flipping hours to sit and watch people inefficiently tell a collaborative story. lol

@bjhale

5 ай бұрын

I haven't watched CR in ages, so I'm not the most reliable person to ask, but why watch them on Twitch when it's all pre-recorded with no fan interaction? To see a wall of chat race by? That might have something to do with it.

@surlycanadian

5 ай бұрын

@@bjhale I suppose if there were other twitch viewers that you commonly chatted with in the past it is still a place to socialize with your people while you share a viewing experience. But other than that, I struggle to see why you’d make an effort to tune in on twitch even when they sess’d live. I’m someone who never watched their older stuff back then or since. I’ve watched a lot of fan made edited cuts of VM and MN moments and I’ve never seen them interacting with the chat. Did they ever interact with their live chat in real time? God that would have been even worse for efficient time usage. I know that real-time interaction with viewers is the point in a twitch stream, but most people are playing video games or reacting to videos or online articles while interacting with their chat. I can’t think of anything worse for the flow of a an RPing session than one or more people at the table reading and responding to live chats and being distracted from the game.

@bjhale

5 ай бұрын

@@surlycanadian There was limited interaction with the chat, but mostly from the first director they had coming in on screen and attempting to moderate the chat that way when they were unruly. For example, I think he did that on the episode after it was announced Orion Acaba wouldn't be returning and the chat was demanding answers. They also had the product giveaway, and it was often believed some of the players may have been following the chat when they were looking at their phone and did something chat was advising. None of this was major, but it did help foster a sense of community in CR's early days when streams had fewer than 20K viewers. Of course, my opinion is probably out of whack with the majority of critters. Sound quality issues aside, I miss those early days when someone curious about D&D could tune in to see a group of talented people playing the same kind of game that they themselves could have under similar circumstances. I miss Matt's hand-drawn maps, his miniature substitution (stegosaurus for a triceratops), and the cozy club house set with massive stuffed bear in the background. Hell, I even miss the cast going occasionally absent due to real life. Now it's just a production and the airing of pre-recorded episodes contributes to that loss.

Laudna getting a free 1up for no reason is what dropped me. I slogged through the first part of the series, but this was it for me.

I mean…for me it’s just the story isn’t clicking. Nothing really wrong with them, not to me, just isn’t clicking. I am also trying to catch up still with other previous campaigns too which is a long process. I don’t know. I think part of it is that the group isn’t clicking with the theme of the plot well? The plot I find is good and the characters I think are good, but them together…feels like something just isn’t quite clicking. Hmm maybe it’s also that…it doesn’t feel like they are making each other better people? The appeal of some of the past stories was that they, for all their faults, helped make each other better people. This time, well, their influence on each other feels muddled and not entirely about being better. I don’t think it helped that Travis so quickly switched up his characters. At times, it makes his character arcs not feel earned to an audience. And maybe that’s the other thing, the sense of earning. Oh and I don’t think it helped that we lost our fan favorite air genasi bard. Nothing ever feels resolved here either. One of the few moments that did was when they were working to save Laudna, but outside of that? Not so much. Whatever it is, for all that I think the story and the characters are good, something isn’t clicking. I largely think it’s that the theme doesn’t feel aligned with the party and their priorities but to each their own. I personally loved Mighty Nein and maybe that’s also part of the issue, the previous campaigns and their stories and their characters leave a ton for this third campaign to live up to, and with far more eyes watching than ever before. Anyway, just my take on why things aren’t going well for campaign 3. And…I guess one last theory as to why this doesn’t seem to be working. Maybe it’s because the story feels like it’s a no win situation? It was one thing for the Calamity campaign but another for us to start by wanting the party to win and not feeling like it will, or that it’s trying to. I’ve heard many complain about how wishy washy this party feels about the gods and their motives and such and that probably doesn’t help when each time they have showed up in previous campaigns has had a completely different impression for us. Just some thoughts. Apologies if they sound vague and such. It’s a bit difficult to articulate.

each of the campaigns have a different emphasis, which definitely effects people's interest and enjoyment of them. it's like how every home game is different and not for everyone. c1 was very heroic and questy, c2 was swashbuckley, with a lot of intrigue, secrecy, and political machinations. and now c3 is super character-driven, even heavier on the roleplay and dealing with a lot of characters who feel like they're in end times and desperately need therapy to function. ruidus is related to some of their pasts, but there's a lot of it that hasn't have time to come out. i'm enjoying c3 still, just in a different way. and i'm curious about the vibe for c4.

There have been some crazy cool moments throughout the campaign, and individually Bells Hells are some of the greatest characters the cast have played. Fearne for example is Ashley's best character yet, even if she does constantly forget how to play a druid and how her spells work. As a group though, idk its just always felt off somehow. Admittedly, my enthusiasm died down as soon as Robbie left. I was really hoping he was gonna stick around as a new permanent member, and the campaign has never felt quite right since the first story arc.

@Vigsol

5 ай бұрын

aha Ashely has never known how her character works!

I stopped at episode 18 due to my inability to watch more than an hour at a time. My issue with C3 is the lack of Death & Stakes after Bertrand Bell died. The Stakes. You make excellent points. I still will always view Vox Machina as the pinnacle of Online entertainment. It was rough in the early days like actual play. And that made it magical. Also EXU Calamity's length and resolution was also top tier.

I really tried to get into C3, CR was an integral part of my week for the entirety of C2's lifespan, as much as C1 didn't click with me I still love the crew and their stories so much! But... I can't stand any of the characters in C3. They're all so perplexing to me. My main issue being that Matt set up such an interesting setting during the first episode and it feels like nobody knew anything about that setting. It's like a key hand-out about the country was ignored? So we ended up with a crew made up of tourists. Correct me if I'm wrong but Ashton was the only native and he still took influence from western (british) punk aesthetic & attitude instead of integrating himself into the world Matt had presented. Also as mentioned in the video, they're all mini-Jesters! Not everyone can be the quirky goofy one, you need a foil to that in equal part and that foil needs to also be endearing. Orym could be that but by god being sad is not endearing. Also, don't get me started on the lack of interesting race choices this time around. I can't imagine being dropped Infront of lion, elephant and bird-folk and not choosing at least one of those to play. (If I ever do, put me out of my misery, I'm dead to the world already) Anyway, if you enjoy C3, I'm happy for you, but I'm so excited for the next guest DM one-shot or C4.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Another very reasonable take

@PixelKey

6 ай бұрын

Man, you nailed in the head most of the major gripes i have with this campaign!

@xandroy1273

6 ай бұрын

I personally find a chaos genasi, a faun, a robot and an undead way more interesting than animal-people. Animals but humans is not very creative imo. But I agree, something about the group doesn't really click with me either, and I dropped C3 a big while ago because of it

@griff6447

6 ай бұрын

@@xandroy1273 Sure, it's personal preference! But a blue human, animal eared human, robot & dead human aren't interesting at all to me haha. Anthro animals have so much potential (even just as a short-cut), especially if the work is put in to turning what makes those animals unique into cultural differences. (just imagine how real lion society would translate into the mindset of an anthro-lion PC) But like, at least give us some interesting fantasy races like tieflings, goblinoids and some new homebrew choices. Anyways, the group never felt like they meshed, with the world or each-other, I think that's the biggest nail in the coffin if you watch CR for the inter-party & NPC RP.

@griff6447

6 ай бұрын

@@PixelKey I'm just glad someone agrees! :D

You have to admit, the first 14 episodes with Robbie is the best opener of the campaigns. C1 with Orion is, well yeah. C2 had a very rich start with characters. But something about C3 with Robbie hit different. The tone was different and more dark mostly, but fuck it had some hilarious moments

I lost interest in trying to keep up with C3. I'll catch it if I can, but I'm not obsessed with going back and watching an episode if I missed it. Part of it is the too many jesters. And I also agree with the no consequences theme as well. I can't wait for C4 though. Maybe they'll be doing that campaign using Daggerheart?

I am still in love with them, can't help myself...

C2 was an easy watch because of the Pandemic.. where were we going to go and what new shows were there to watch? By the time we got to the end of the pandemic we were invested in the C2 story and finishing it. I didn't care for the characters in EXU so when some of them showed up at the start of C3 i was less interested and was too busy to dedicate 4 hours of viewing every week so ive just not gone back to it. I might eventually watch it but its lower on my priorities now.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Interestingly this is one of a couple comments that seem to suggest people didn't click with the EXU cast and lost interest when they saw them become main cast for Campaign 3

The issue is ever since the Malleus key (and even somewhat before that) this campaign has felt like the Imogen/Laudna story with side characters. Nobody else feels like an actual fleshed out character and the entire story might be about ruidus born but let's be honest it's about Imogen.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's the "too many jesters" issue. Everyone is busy being wakcy and chaotic but no one really has much to flesh out their actual character.

@Blubbermage

6 ай бұрын

​@@TheCharacterSheet I partially agree but I don't even know if it's everyone being Wacky that makes them incomplete characters. As an example, He isnt really wacky but why is Ashton here? What motivation does Ashton have to stay? Before the primordial shard he was just there because Taliesin is a player at the table. The same goes for FCG he really has no stakes in any of this because Ruidus isn't moving him towards learning about his old life and his arc with Dancer is closed. Why is Chetney there? None of these characters have real motivation aside from "impending doom" It's also just generally hard to care about joke/npc characters from other games. we learned everything we needed to from Fearne in EXU. Chetney is just Chutney from their christmas oneshot and if he rolls a 100 on a d100 he dies. FCGs backstory is a pussy joke. If they're not going to take campaign 3 seriously why should the fans?

Yes. All of this. Matt Mercer is too afraid I think of dealing out consequences to the player characters. Even C2 had no consequences to it. Murder on the docks of Nicodramus? Literally no investigation occured. Handing over the Beacon to the Dynasty and telling The Empire and Cerberus Assembly they did it? They were deemed heroes of both The Dynasty and The Empire. It's really an odd thing that the player characters can get away with it all with no actual consequences for anything.

Liked the beginning with Dorian, lost interest after a certain trip to a certain city that was important in past campaign. Gained interest again after they traveled to a new continent that hasnt been explored yet in Critical Role history. Honestly it was just the lack of direction in the middle of the series that didnt peak my interest, like they were searching for answers but haven't found any so the lack of answers is the clarity and satisfaction of finding answers.

Last week I had chills with Matt’s voice of the witch. Was scary in a good way. It’s been long with forced romances (robot love) and not enough stakes (as you said) plus I think straying away from d&d content maybe hurting it. It’s certainly not mm as a dm

The downside to most very long-form content is that it can't maintain intensity through the whole run. If you're looking at well over a hundred episodes, each around 4 hours, that's an incredibly big amount of time to fill. What we're seeing from shorter arc stories is that every hour of every game has a frantic intensity. CR's own Candela Obscura (with all quibbles about the mechanics aside) brings the hammer down in every episode, because they know their time is short. At this point, CR's primary show is more of a comfort watch/listen. Throw it on and enjoy the goofballs as they meander and lurch in the direction of the finish line. For a lot of us who have played TTRPGs over a long time, we know that none of that tomfoolery would be well accepted at our table. Through all the campaigns, many of the CR cast's antics would have gotten a "home game" group TPK'd, or gotten a player a really stern reprimand for short-circuiting the game. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, and will keep watching, but I will be very hopeful that the next series really changes things, and shakes up what has gotten a bit stale.

@RudeAlert

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, the goofballery really gets on my nerves at times. I prefer games to be played with a slightly more serious tone, as if the characters actually valued their own lives the way real people do. Endless pratfalls and silly hi-jinx not only get stale, they also make for a less immersive and believable story.

Im new to watching Critical Role, but I am caught up on campaign 2 and 3 due to lots of lovely guides and reading the recaps. What I will say is that I totally think this campaign has too many jesters, I also agree that the mcguffin type cameos of Vox Machina are kind of cheap and release a lot of tension thats much needed. I do think especially with this last episode, the one that released Thursday the 21st, that they are trying to take things more seriously and continue the plot forward. Also this is pure speculation, but I think the reason active viewership has dropped is also due to just life, as more and more people get back to work and recover from the longer effects of COVID they spend less time watching Critical Role, I mean I just dont have time to watch anymore because of University, so it could also be something like that.

I have to agree with the "Too Many Jesters" issue. The characters are mostly jokes and it is SO off-putting for such an important moment for Exandria. Ultimately, I don't understand how Vox Machina would look at BH and think "Yes, let's help *them*". I honestly think the absolute best ending to this Campaign would be BH getting a TPK due to lack of effort and urgency, and then a Vox Machina reunion of coming out of retirement to save the world.

I'm enjoying campaign 3 a lot. Campaign 2 dragged a little for me but this new story is a blast.

@theincrediblefella7984

6 ай бұрын

my condolances to your braincells.

@kamikeserpentail3778

6 ай бұрын

I didn't watch campaign 1, but I loved 2. 3 took a while to start growing on me, but I'm invested now.

@VoiceNerd

6 ай бұрын

Agreed unfortunately I didn't get invested until the death of certain members who then got resurrected and then I got invested enough to go back and start all over and I'm now caught up. Definitely worth the investment

@jujujohnson01

5 ай бұрын

Glad you are, its okay to enjoy it.

@ashleycronk3881

5 ай бұрын

​@@theincrediblefella7984I'm not sure what you mean by that

While i basicly benchwatched C1 and C2 im slowly watching and I even found myself skipping few minutes ahead in C3 VOD's lately. It definitly feels less serious. Biggest problem with level 20 characters around in C3 is that im always asking myself a question "why character X cant ask character Y for help", I feel like at any moment they could do Avangers moment with gathering everyone and just win with the bad guys. I know that said characters can be busy with some other stuff, but asuming they are not old like Percy, end of the world like they know it sounds like a kind big deal.

Can I just add that Bells Hells, as a name, put me off big time. They knew this man for like what, a few days, and they name their party after him? Its like Molly all over again, a guy they know for like three weeks dies and they're all deeply traumatized? Like what?

I honestly just kind of stopped paying attention. I get occasional updates about what's happening in C3 (in videos like this), but I haven't watched an actual stream or VOD since C3 started.

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Fair, it certainly seems you are not alone

It seems to me, C3 has the problem that normally a part 2 of any series has - it has to compete with what came before. C2 was so wildly popular because a lot of people started watching CR weekly with M9 because few people have the time to watch hundreds of hours from C1 to catch up. In addition - for the OG Critters and those who did put in the time and watched C1 - C2 was a completely fresh start with barely any connection to C1 until the late/end game phase of C2, where Artagan, Allura, Kima and Vilya showed up. Until then, there was nothing really actively and obvious connecting C1 & C2. (the less obvious things being Delilah being part of the Cerberus Assembly or the appearance of guns in the world as a result of Ripleys deals) C2 was - kind of - another first Campaign instead of a sequel. And I believe that's exactly what the cast wanted. M9 stopping at Lv 15 and not going up against Ludinus and the Assembly during the campaign was a decision Matt partly made because he already planned for Ludinus as the BBEG for C3. Another big issue is, that BH were confronted with enemies they could hardly compete with rather early in the campaign. And the BBEG and the Ruidius issue was the main plot line throughout the whole campaign. Yes, there were the Nightmare King, The Shademother, Ludinus, Paragons Call and all his Generals like Ratanish and Thull but they all were connected to the moon. In C2 they had multiple great Plot-Lines, as they had (if fewer) in C1 as well. C1: Underdark, Briarwoods, Chroma Conclave (which was many storylines and adventures either gathering the vestiges or slaying the dragons) and the endgame w Vecna and the gods. C2: Beginnings, their way to Zadash work for the Gentleman, stealing the beacon (which leads into the main storyline for most of the campaign), war, Molly's death, the whole Avantika/Ukot'oa plotline, Xhorhas & the Bright Queen, Obann, Caduceus quest, peace negotiations, Traveller Con on Rumblecusp and the endgame with Lucien & the TombTakers in the ruins of Aeor and Cognouza. I feel like since Episode 1 the red moon looms over this whole campaign and the party never seems to be catching up to the stakes of a second calamity - or even wanting to catch up. There is significantly less feeling of purpose and heroism in BH then there was in VM. VM were highly regarded and trusted from episode 1 because they saved Tal'Dorei. Neither M9 nor BH seem to be acknowledged by the powers in command - which hits for BH even harder since these powers mostly consist of VM who already have the world on their shoulders. M9 never needed that - even though they were acknowledged by the important people at least. But BH simply cannot compete with VM. The cast themselves said multiple times, that this group feels like a collection of sidekicks or NPCs who try to do their part in supporting those who go up against the BBEG. New groups of heroes in sequels need to surpass the heroes coming before them - that's what we all learned through many franchises and series. That may also be a problem why BH are not popular. Their chaos and all those timeboms they have in their party are no indication for a lot of trust. Another problem is the connected backstories from C3 to C1 These connections were there from the beginning of C3 and with TLoVM being two seasons in - many people started picking up C1 and learned to love VM and their epic & heroic story. I believe many people subconsciously view C3 as the direct sequel to C1 which it kind of is partway but with characters that they started with day 1 of C3. The cast knew VM for 2 years before going online on Geek&Sundry - they knew those characters as long as they know their C3 characters now - and that's when C1 just started. I love C1 & C2, I love what I believe the cast is trying to do in C3, makeing more realistic and down to earth decisions with their characters then they did with VM. They did that with M9 already, but there were other dynamics and not such a direct comparison at play. But it's also really hard for me to keep watching them do what they want. I believe it was right for them to set their differences aside and go through group therapy - Ashton was on a seriously unrealistic God-Mode-Purpose-Trip to deal with everything happening - better this explodes before they go to Ruidius then when they are on the moon. And broken trust was already an issue with Laudna - it was important to reassure everyone - since this is actually close to life. This group can only achieve what they must or even prevail in what is to come if they work together and entrust their lives to each other.

Honestly at this point, I kinda want Matt to let their negligence cause the calamity and they fail their mission to stop the Godeater. It'd be one hell of a way to end it all and kinda slap the team in the face with *insert Amelia Tyler* "The consequences of their own actions." Or in this case inaction. Lol

@EchoMirage72

5 ай бұрын

Matt won't do it unless that's the arc of the story. He doesn't actually insert massive consequences into the game like that unless it's neccessary to the campaign.

@DSTkunn

5 ай бұрын

@@EchoMirage72 I think it'd be one hell of a setup to what happens when a Godeater is actually released.

@EchoMirage72

5 ай бұрын

@@DSTkunn it'd be interesting if it's part of the story.

For me its the explosion of new (or new to me) actual play content in the recent years to fill the itch. that i fell behind, and at 4 hours an episode that weeks behind becomes months and months became a year. I just cant catch up.

I think the issue is not that there are no consequences, but that the consequence of dying is too high, with resurrection magic out of the picture. Because death is so permanent, the characters are afraid of meeting with the big baddies. Because death is so permanent, there aren't any touching revival scenes where we can peer into deep bonds between characters like we did with Laudna.

spread themselves to thin this year,

@TheCharacterSheet

6 ай бұрын

Fair point! They are trying out a lot of new projects, although they did this pre-pandemic as well with better results.

@TheOGGMsAdventures

6 ай бұрын

They had a LOT on their plate this year plus the IRL stuff that happend. They had Amazon, Campagine 3, Midst, CO, the one shots, a bored game, a CCG, a Vidio game plus all their normal VO work plus what ever else they have going on behind the sceens. Maybe campagin 3 was just them letting off steam ?

@ingridvos734

6 ай бұрын

​@@TheOGGMsAdventuresthis

Love your commentary here. I think you were quite fair in your criticisms. I wonder if the commenter who said they need a new DM is on the trigger track. Matt might be too today's of their shenanigans after all this time playing together

I went back and rewatched campaigns 1 and 2 because 3 didn't grab me like 1 and 2 did. I blame that on the messy start of campaign 3 with 2 breaks in the story for 2 EXU specials. So with me not getting grabbed early on the vox machina and mighty nein coming in to save the day made me see the hells as the side kicks doing things while the heroes are doing the real work and still save the hells when they need it.

@thedevasque1

5 ай бұрын

I'm of similar mind, campaigns 1 and 2 did not have the multi-arc/episodes of both EXU specials, nor the changes to initially drop the 4th week and/or later introduction of Candela Obscura. When you start breaking folks attention spans up like that, I think it takes its toll on continued viewership. Plus the fact that the second EXU run had some really damn good characters and storytelling, sliding back in to campaign 3 after with some of their wishy-washy all over-ness just left me ho hum and trying to reinvest.

I really enjoyed most of the characters at the beginning of Campaign 3, but some time after they brought Laudna back it started to wain. I think it is because the story seemed to turn and get more serious, but the characters didn't. So I wanted to see what was happening concerning the story and I cared about the characters, but they just didn't seem to fit together in a way that makes me want to stay up until 2 am. I'd rather read the recap. I still have my subscription and watch Candela Obsura and one shots, but Campaign 3 has just lost the sparkle for me. Chetney and Ashton also grate on my nerves a bit so that also doesn't help matters.

I still look forward to Thursday nights. I think what I’m annoyed with is how unserious they sometimes get and a bit to off track. But overall I enjoy watching.

If Hell's Bells is the setup for a massive re-set to Exandria, and, the next campaign is going to use their own Daggerheart system, then it makes sense that they take their time (drawing out) Hell's Bells until Daggerheart is ready.

I agree with Laudna's death being one of the high points. It was seriously the only time that I truly felt invested in the story. I was like "Oh, this is my Mollymauk moment for this campaign," because I didn't get in C2 until after Molly's death. After they brought Launda back, it felt like the actions wouldn't have severe consequences like before. I like the call backs to C1 and C2, but I just haven't found my hooks in this campaign, sadly. I'm hoping there is another point where I find myself interested in this campaign again, but until then, I'll be waiting for C4.

I'm pretty sure at this point that the whole "Delay the mission to the moon" was as much as a logistical decision as it was anything else- they wanted to start 2024 with that arc and leave 2023 on one big cliffhanger. But yes, I found the whole recent "Feywild delay" to be extremely frustrating, because they had building up some actual narrative momentum before that. Then the whole Ashton shard thing happened, Liam missed an episode due to illness and that was the end of all that.

I don’t understand how invested they were bringing back a character. If it was later in the campaign when Laudna passed, yes, I can see them going to lengths. She was with a majority of them with a few weeks when she died (again). Role up a new character, bring in back story, make us enjoy the ride… Bringing her back felt very forced.

I think the issue with C3 for me is that, as an audience member, the stakes are always kind of... low for what is meant to be a very important moment in the lore? I've been dipping in and out of episodes, hoping for the tension to continue, but it feels like there... isn't any? This is supposed to be a big deal, the villain is getting closer to his goal, and the rush to try and mend this is basically tossed aside for a good chunk of episodes. I enjoy the concepts brought through the characters, as somebody who is finally caught up to a campaign because good lord four hours per episode is a lot, but I keep feeling like there isn't a strong enough tether for them to bother with the Godeater. From what I hear of Campaign 2, it's something I'd really enjoy and it makes me wonder what happened. I think the biggest issue with Campaign 3 is, frankly, the last days worth of content all kind of feel like filler? I really want the party's inaction to end up unraveling a massive shake-up in the world, I need something new to bring me in, because I'm very slowly getting bored and will probably go to other live plays.

This is my first CR campaign... I liked it at first but it now feels like there is SOOOO much plot armor. Not sure if this is because they need to protect their brand or whatever, but these characters have more plot armor than Naruto. My D&D experiences have never had this much armor. Stupid choices have consequences. I love that and would like to see more of it.

I don’t think consequences are always or even often necessary for delaying the plot. The team building exercise was very entertaining and the crew did need stat/ ability boots it seems for what comes next. However, the main narrative has gotten a bit lost such that when they get back on track it’s a little hard to remember the whole/what/when/where/why if just what they are now focusing on. I agree that stakes and consequences like perhaps dismemberment, a death, loss of a sense would be valuable to the story but not necessarily for delaying the plot. Maybe Cheney starts having to deal with some sort of age related disease like arcane gout or arthritis or something. Maybe a character who takes a particularly nasty blow to the head has to deal with prolonged double vision.

What C3 is missing are drama filled plot producing backstories that all the characters in C2 had. I dont think the problem was C1 and C2 crossovers, those have been some of the most nostalgic and entertaining episodes... because we are more attached to Beau and Caleb than any of bell's hells.

Finally *witnessing* youtube channels lately, actually airing the same frustrations I've felt, is refreshing. I was finding, especially while Dorian was still in the party, that a lot of "recap" shows sounded like they were vibing with it and not feeling how I was feeling. I needed the recaps to sort through the chaos to figure out what the actual F was even going on. There were some genuinely good moments where the vibe was *just* right and the cast were actually behaving semi-seriously (ie reigning it in a bit). But these were few and far between. "Diamond moments" in the mud and shit. This whole experience has felt like a chore. I guess I'm just stubborn.

For me, it comes down to charaters and character dynamics. I like the idea of each character individually, but they don't mesh well as a group. They are constantly doing side bars within the party which is draining to watch as a viewer and to the players; they are constantly looking down at their phones. I love Matthew's world building, but the story arc he's trying to tell doesn't mesh with these characters which makes it exhausting to watch. I've watched the past couple of episodes which were more promising then where I left off, but there had been no identifiable character growth making me want to go back and catch up on the episodes I missed. The biggest thing- which I mentioned breifly- is that it doesn't feel like the players are enjoying themselves. Dnd is supposed to be fun. A lot of fans say "they're playing for themselves" but they're not. They're playing for their company now and it shows.