2:18 what it would sound like if I attempted the Countdown theme on a trumpet.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Yes, now you mention it! 😃

So right..Time Out was weekly essential reading for all gigs, theatre etc etc!

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

I couldn't believe it when I got a job there. So fortunate…

I 100% agree. The pubs and the pub rock scene were the platforms that british punk were launched. Lets face it, the NYC scene was well underway but might have fizzled out without the injection of the energy and sheer anger of the british scene...and as you eloquently explain, it was organic and intertwined. Exciting times for sure.

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

Thanks! Not sure how "eloquently" I explain stuff, but I do try! 😀 Thanks for taki ng part and please keep watching!

* Punk Rock , wouldn't have happened without Jerry Lee Lewis ,Little Richard ---- * Although a lot of People ( those in the know ) ---- regard Jerry Lee Lewis as the Original Punk Rocker --- the First Wild man of Rock ' n ' Roll , Pure , Raw ,Wild , the Greatest Rocker of them all ,the Rockingest Rocker of them all ---- some say that he was badass !! The real thing !! ----

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

That’s true but only in the sense of the music. Jerry Lee Lewis didn’t create any of the infrastructure that was also needed: venues, audience, record labels and communication media…

@ianmshipp

9 ай бұрын

ROCKABILLY UBeR ALLES! Dig it Daddy-o! spot on

@nkscou9008

9 ай бұрын

Also, nothing would have happened without Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and others, and certainly nothing would have happened without those who first played music by beating turtle shells and stretching animal skins. I mean that nothing would exist without something else, prior. The ones you mentioned wouldn't have existed without African-American boogie-woogie in the 1920s.

the real mystery for me was Roogalator...like the Count Bishops they had a weird stew of musicians and influences I know they were an early signing to Stiff...maybe an album? I don't know ...

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

Keep watching: I'm working on a video that features Roogalator now…! 😀

Most early punk stuff was theatrical, a sort of glam/rock and roll hybrid. It was naughty performative and bands and audience were expected to make a mess. (Malcolm McLaren was previously into Situationism IIRC.) This phase didn't last long, and it settled down into a comfortable new wave era that had much in common with pub rock. In fact early 1970s pub rock and 80s post-punk/new wave were virtually indistinguishable - virtuosic, poetic, austere, art school-ish. The theatrical element became New Romantic, which gave birth to dance-electro, which in turn begat Rave and Brit Pop. The UK rock family tree was much more diverse and hybrid than the music press would have had people believe, particularly with regard to punk's Year Zero, which was entirely a marketing phenomenon.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to comment! I agree with most of what you say. It’s all a lot more complicated than some people (like me!) try and make out…

Only my tuppence worth- I was under the impression that Paul Cook and Steve Jones had been trying for several years to get a band together. They were into the likes of Roxy Music/Bowie. They just wanted to be pop/rock stars. McLaren wasn’t interested in them at first and when he did show any interest it was to mold them into a pop group in order to make money. There was no talk of ‘anarchy’ being anti establishment. In fact, after the Pistols episode on the Today programme, McLaren was said to be ‘crapping himself’ from the possible fall out-hardly the stuff of getting rid of the establishment or Anarchy in the UK! Lyndon was definitely NOT in his initial plans. I seem to remember John Beverly (Sid Vicious) being initially earmarked as a possible candidate for the then unnamed Sex Pistols but due to a mix up, John Lyndon got the job. It’s been well documented that there were a whole bunch of bands who were definitely not punk UNTIL the Pistols arrived on the scene. Yes, it was a combination of the right people in the right place, the pub venues being available, teenagers wanting music from their their generation (a lot of the pub rock bands were seen as old by the emerging generation) but the Sex Pistols were the ones who really kickstarted the whole thing that became known as punk. It’s quite possible that without John Lyndon fronting the band, the whole punk movement would never have happened. It would probably have been pub rock MK2. BTW, if anyone reading this is interested in the roots of punk, look up one Wally Nightingale. A true punk pioneer.

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for that interesting and informative information! I'll not claim to be an expert on Punk, just an interested bystander and I think everything you say is correct. However, I do think individuals, such as the "Bromley contingent" would have had more influence if McLaren and his cohorts hadn't been so prominent. One of the few times I spoke to McLaren, he confirmed that he was trying to replicate what the Stooges and other were doing in the USA and it kind of got out of hand and became very British…

Another great video l would put you as the leading authority on Pub Rock because you saw it first hand, Loi coxhill I saw twice when he backed Kevin Ayers l feel you miss out before Punk was the Rock N Roll revival pub Rock bands all l saw 75-76 for example Crazy cavan Flying saucers Matchbox Cadilac to name a few in the latest Skeletons making love fanzine l have done a 2 page feature on Pub Rock which will see the light of day in 2025 Love your videos brilliant work.

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

Thank you, Stephen, I really do appreciate it. I was there but I also have to check my facts as the recollections don't always coincide with what other people say. Problem is, there's a lack of sound evidential information on the Pub Rock era. In my small way, I'm trying to correct that. Cheers!

Punk also started on 3 contents at the same time Australia is the third with the Saints 1974 , and then radio birdman.

@JimDriver

8 ай бұрын

I think it was pretty close to simultaneous, all that talent rising from the swamp of ideas and opportunities…

The scene in London may not have happened or could have been very different. But it would have little to no effect on the early punk rock from the states it was influenced by. Stooges would've happened. NY Dolls would've. Television would've still built the stage at CBGBs The Ramones played on in 74. Dictators, Dead Boys, Electric Eels, ect. All predating The Pistols and The Clash with their songs, if not with a big record deal. London was simply a scene that broke it into the mainstream after the fact.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

I think the two scenes were very different. I've never really thought the NY punk bands were actually punk in the accepted sense of the word, more high-energy, the American versions of the Hot Rods and a handful of other bands established on the London scene. The London Punk scene may have been sparked and encouraged by McLaren, who took his inspiration from the CBGB-style bands but most people who claimed to be punks or involved in it, ignored the commercial (McLaren) side of it and concentrated on a more grassroots approach. One-chord wonders who evolved into genuine anarchists like CRASS, Poison Girls and Conflict. THose were the real punk bands for me. The ones who got the big record deals were watered-down versions that played Rock through a Punk filter…

@ianmshipp

9 ай бұрын

so true... not that its competition, so much as hash to rehash, we cooked up Rock n Roll form what we had here, The Brits took it and spiced it up and sipped it in the Mersey river and slung it back at us, then we vollied it back and then them back to us again Brit Pop etc...its been a very very interesting and beautiful relationship with our cousins afar. Couldnt have happened any other way. God bless'em! and us tboot. Sweet Gene Vincent!!

@nkscou9008

9 ай бұрын

@@JimDriver There is no "accepted sense of the word" for punk. This is today's fashion and perception. Punk is not necessarily anarchist, it is unconventional and its subject matter has to do with the geographical place it takes place and the conditions. It has no label. America was not facing the political-social problems that England was facing, where it became giant because of this situation, mainly. Another logic says that the only real punk bands are the ones you don't even know. But the word punk, as far as I know, is American slang, and surely this music and the whole movement, in general, took its title from the American "Punk Magazine" which referred to CBGB's concerts. So if you want to give exclusivity to the bands you mentioned, better find another title. Anyway, the bands you mentioned started after punk was already born. Without this birth they would never exist. Really, where was the 40+ Vi Subversa all this time? The fact that they captured their own ideas does not invalidate what came before nor can you compare different periods nor can you compare the earlier with the later. One would think they smelled an audience and thought to show up. That is, they took advantage of a pre-existing situation. The best way to succeed in politics is to find a crowd that is going somewhere and get in front of it.

@dancrisafulli7768

9 ай бұрын

@@JimDriver The development really was a big volley across the ocean, but I'm honestly just answering the question in your title. It would and did. Though I truly think Eddie and the Hotrods were just a high-energy-for-the-time rockband, without the proto-punk elements of The Stooges and The Dolls, The Dolls were truly just a ruder, snottier, louder, faster and raunchier version of the Rolling Stones with extra snarl and swagger. Not to mention pre-proto tracks by the Kinks and others. I love early 70's british glam too, related but still lacking that quite the same "fuck you" swagger you hear in Iggy's "I wanna be your dog", in NYDolls "Frankenstein" or "Jetboy", that unmistakable punk snarl that really was something different forming - if still containing rock elements. Digressing here though. Ramones was a fully-formed punk rock band in 1974. Not just a song or two. Not just an element here or there. Every song. The only think arguably missing was the look, which Richard Hell in Television did have, as did arguably Johnny Thunders. Both sound and look exported by Malcolm to form The Sex Pistols a couple years later. It wasn't all just New York either. Detroit and Cleveland were a big part of the formation. MC5, sure, had more of a rock edge. But they along with the Stooges influenced Electric Eels (the first hardcore punk sound, which, when sped up, sounds like just about any socal punk band from the late 70's/early 80's) and Rocket From The Crypt, which became Frankenstein and eventually The Dead Boys. It might not be the punk sound you're most fond of, that you personally associate with the name. I can understand the fondness. I love Wire. I love Crass. I love Stiff Little Fingers. The Blood is possibly my favorite punk band ever. But this was fully formed punk nonetheless, and was the direct precursor to quite a few stateside punk bands in the 80's and 90's who directly borrowed the sound, with just a bit more speed. NY. Ramones. CBGB. 1974. 6 months after their first live performance. Now I wanna sniff some glue. I don't wanna go down to the basement. Judy is a punk. kzread.info/dash/bejne/e6unuLmTXcaeddI.html Cleveland. Electric Eels. Cyclotron. 75 (written in 74). kzread.info/dash/bejne/rGShzcioiKzcm9I.html Cleveland. The Dead Boys (then called Frankenstein). Sonic Reducer. 75. Sped up a bit from their 1974 version when members were in Rocket From The Tombs. Would speed up even more in later performances, but otherwise remain unchanged. kzread.info/dash/bejne/aZuC0c5yZc7ap5s.html NY. 1974. Television when Richard Hell was still in it, before jumping to The Heartbreakers and then The Voidoids. kzread.info/dash/bejne/lZiApq-idsrOh9Y.html Lastly, a band that influenced absolutely no one, because the record wasn't really unearthed and issued until 2009. But from the Detroit area, clearly influenced by The Stooges, The MC5, Eels, Rocket From The Tomb, ect. (I'm sure there are likely a handful of never-heard bands from all over the world in the late 60's/early 70's with an even more forward punk sound, and that's really the point, honestly). Death. Detroit. 1975. kzread.info/dash/bejne/eJeZ2LixoMe2k7w.html Highly recommended reading: Please Kill Me - The Uncensored Oral History Of Punk - Legs McNeil, Gillian McCain.

I'm too young to have been aware of pub rock in the pre punk era, but I am old enough to remember it being mentioned in articles in pre teen magazines like Look In when they covered some of the bands that broke through into the mainstream. Certainly I have never questioned the notion that the British Punk scene was a by product of Pub Rock.

@JimDriver

8 ай бұрын

Lucky you (for being so young), even though it's a shame you missed all the funny and excitement! Thanks for commenting…

Spot on, plain and simple. Its all, only Rock n Roll and we like it, love it even. Grand dando, my Man! American Angle-Erin-Alban-phile here. Certainly I love Mr John R. (Cash), but as much as himself, I Love Nick Lowe! Graham Parker! Kilburn Highroads etc etc. All class acts and puttin it out there 100 percent and not makin scratch of much of othing for doing so. Certainly keeps a bit of hunger in the belly, makes you fight harder, spit further, swing faster, drink more, packin the sulphate up the snout etc etc. It, Pub Rock, was the very necessary and natural incarnation of Rock n Roll that was needed at the time, as you well said yourself. Pomp was rendered from the complacency that had amassed from too many pay days, and and tshirts sold for more money than a kid could make in a weeks wages (along with the concert ticket). Born in 71, myself, on Peachtree St, in Ratlanta Ga. where the Pistols started their American tour. We were suffering the same drout, as yourselves, over here, my dads buddy was the Pistols opening act, hes a stand up comedian and actor and a kinda Cpt Beefheart, Dr Demento stable type cat, Daryl Rhodes and teh Ha Ha vishnu orchestra along with Col Bruce Hampton and teh Aquarium reescue unit, were the two big local acts and who was coming to town those days, Supertramp, Kiss, God I love ELO, but, hell, ELO? come on now... I will tell you and I shall thank you toboot, considerably, as most of my running buddies were much older and friends of my aunts, aroun 11 yrs older than me, I knew several folks who made that show, at the Southeast Music Hall, the pIstols, and several are in Done Letts Punk Rock MOvie, they all went out the next day and bought and stole instruments they couldnt play and strated bands amongst them selves, Vietnam, The Restraints, hell even, cats from REM and teh B52's were of that very pluckin of the feather of a mighty fine chicken, bak bak. In my going into the punk scene in 85, it had already spun its wheels and was like a one weebbed toed bewildered child swimming in circles and not enjoying the monotony atall. It was fkn toast Brutha! Just like that which summoned Pub rock. When the whole metal punk hardcore, L.A.scene D.c scene Minor Threat, Black Flag, Darby Crash and all tha shuck n jive came into its own, I ran out the backdoor, and dove head first into that which always had my attention frist and foremost, Rockabilly, and in having great appreciation fro teh Teddy Boys and the like, I never threw away my Good New York and English punk from the 70's but just cozied them up in the rack with my Ronnie SElf, Crazy Cavan and Gene Vincent records. sorry im long winded here, but, you brought it on yourself, Mate! God belss you boyo! 101'ers, Costello, Eddie and the Rods etc etc Brinsley Shwartz, yes they were the purveyors to Punk Rock, they facilitated it as you suggested, deffinitely. Thank you for this righteous trip down the corridor of factual history and the best kind of all, Rock N Roll. Let me know if I can ever be of assistance.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Indeed (to much of what you say)! 😅

Started in Detroit Michigan.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for commenting! I think it depends on your definition of what Punk is. I would suggest that the direct route to London is probably via the New York Dolls and the influence they gained from the Stooges, MC5 and so on. Plus Wilko Johnson always said his guitar technique was greatly improved by seeing Wayne Kramer of MC5, and he was a major influence in what spawned Punk Rock in London in 1976…

Simple answer: Yes, because punk originated in the US and not the UK. There were already the Ramones, the Dead Boys, the Heartbreakers, the Dictators, the NY Dolls, the Stooges, Television...

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

My view is that none of these bands are actually Punk bands before Punk started in the UK, so I guess we must agree to differ… I think it says a lot that The Ramones' 'Sheena is a Punk Rocker' came out six months after The Damned's 'New Rose'…

@nkscou9008

9 ай бұрын

@@JimDriver And "Blitzkrieg Bop" was released 8 months before "New Rose" and the Ramones had debuted in England 3 months before "New Rose". "The Ramones ...without whom there might never have been a Clash, Damned or Sex Pistols. Their music is up there with Beethoven, Bolan and the Beatles, fantastic stuff indeed! RIP Johnny Ramone.", The Damned wrote in their homepage. Also, "Ray had long hair and was into John McLaughlin, a jazz fusion guitarist, so I played him the Stooges and the Ramones - and he became our infamous madcap guitarist Captain Sensible. Rat suggested a singer called Dave Vanian, who was into vampire stuff." -Brian James (The Guardian "The Damned: how we made New Rose"). ...and more

@sillyioussodus6373

6 ай бұрын

Definitely with that DIY anti prog rock sound that came from the us , but the catalyst ingredients were the UK attitude of anti establishment nastiness, but whoever did it I'm glad they did

I 1982 or 3 we played at a place was called A7 at that time and they liked us but said go hardcore and you could clean up but hardcore not our thing one night my friend Elin was hanging with Mick Farren Lemmy and Wayne Kramer and she said my friend danny is playing there tonight and they went but missed us by a day but to bow down and let these guys play if they had played would have been great

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

That's a shame. Life is full of these almosts, that's why I don't give too much credit to those who "made it" because they were just lucky and I'm convinced the world is full of people just as talented who just missed out! It's amazing how connections can lead to missed opportunities. Keep rocking and keep creating!

I would love to hear what you have to say, but the background music is all of the foreground I can make out clearly.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for your feedback, Kevin. I do try and control the volume on the background music and I think most people think it's about right, but thanks for the input, I'll certainly take notice. I think part of the problem is that my diction isn't very clear…

Hmm funny to me that in the 60's The Stooges were clearly playing Punk,might not have been called that but well just listen and make your own mind up

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Yes, I think Iggy and The Stooges were certainly influences and precursors as I say, both in the video and in other comments…

@nkscou9008

9 ай бұрын

Also the band Death.

THE.KING.OF.ROCK.N.ROLL.........Chuck Berry. Would be no punk without him (and some others to mention from the states)

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

Indeed! Have you seen the video I made about Chuck Berry? kzread.info/dash/bejne/n6xrj8WuZ9LgdKw.html

@stevelira5176

6 ай бұрын

Not Yet, but.....

Of course, Punk actually began in the States - New York, specifically. Lou Reed and Iggy Pop are the godfathers, and Debby Harry the godmother, but I think by the time Johnny Thunders and Walter Lure (the punk rock 'Heartbreakers,') there was already a thriving punk scene going on, 76-77. What a great time to be alive. Where's gone? The Spirit of '76... It's hard to watch Dr. Feelgood play live and not see the pre-punk English working class moxie is there, waiting for Strummer and Rotten to come along and express it, their own way, just a couple of years down the road, so I rather agree with you, brother Jim.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Thanks! It was a great time to be alive and I'm so grateful I was in the thick of it. As I've said in another comment, I'm not sure the NY Punk was Punk as I'd recognise it: I always thought it was all more New Wave/Power Rock. I suppose Johnny THunders and the Heartbreakers were the nearest to Punk in my view. I saw them at the Marquee (when they first came over?), and some members of the audience were so incensed they were throwing things at them! Maybe we're all just being too pedantic and worrying about labels. To me, the live Roxy Music (1972), especially in their early days of fame, were more New Wave than Blondie: but - as I say -that's just me. I suppose, in the end, none of it is set in stone and it's whatever we individually want it to be…

@jeblmknctmabtaldlr

9 ай бұрын

Your timeline is a little skewed, as Debbie Harry was still doing folk music as backup singer with Wind in the Willows when Lou and Iggy (who was Detroit, not New York) were starting their careers. Harry's recorded work with Blondie started at the dawn of the punk era under discussion (1976), so hardly a "godmother" in the sense of predating the genre. Might as call the Pistols godfathers if putting out a record in 1976 is the criteria. Johnny Thunders was first known for the New York Dolls. The Heartbreakers were formed in the aftermath of that band's break up. NY Dolls preceded the formation of Blondie by several years as well. (Not to mention the involvement of Malcolm McLaren in the Dolls' final days: red patent leather, and hammer and sickle imagery. In fact, the Pistols' song, "New York" is largely a diss track re: the NY Dolls.) It's seems easy to try to simplify the origins, but it's really hard to actually do, since everyone has influences and predecessors as the commenter who cited Jerry Lee Lewis previously. However, it is important to at least get the timeline right.

@wkmalory

9 ай бұрын

Iggy yes Lou yes why not Debbie, mate if you like Blondie great but come on brother thats bs

@nkscou9008

9 ай бұрын

And what about the Ramones? When they are not mentioned in a conversation like this, then the discussion is completely misplaced and has no reason to exist.

@shootfirst2097

8 ай бұрын

Oh... please... the Sex Pistols and The Clash brought punk into the modern age ON THE BACK of similar, rock-punk groups like the Who and the Kinks... and songs by the Stone's like "Get Off My Cloud, Satisfaction" etc.

Yes , britsh punks roots were born in Essex. Cheers.

@JimDriver

8 ай бұрын

Yes, though I think Bromley and Camden Town claim some credit… 😀

Agreed.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Great! Thanks for commenting…

Ever heard of MC5 or the Stooges?

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

I know the Three Stooges and MC Hammer. Does that count? 😄😅 (Please see my reply to your other comment)…

Really interesting but why the background music when you're talking? It's far too high in the mix and I'm struggling to hear you over it.

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment, Andy. I do try and control the volume on the background music and I think most people think it's about right, but thanks for the input, I'll certainly take notice. I've made videos both with and without background music and the ones with music on are way more popular and more watched than the ones without…

I totally hear what your saying, though I always believed pub rock bands dived into punk rather than create it . Though I totally agree that what it gave punk bands was some venues to play. I think punk rock was a totally different animal and it was probably the pub rock bands that created the so called new wave . The lighter more acceptable version. Diet Punk haha. As most of these bands didn’t have anything to say or rebel about. But regardless of anything what a brilliant time to be alive .

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

It was a great time to be alive, though it's only now I'm starting to appreciate how special it was… 😀😃

@davestinson2323

9 ай бұрын

@@JimDriver I remember Pete Wylie ( wah ) telling me to buy a guitar and form a band . I did and a few weeks later we played a gig . We only had 4 songs so played a cover ( Virginia plain ) to make the set up. It sounded awful but it was so fun and so punk. The set list was Test tube babies Will you see tomorrow City helps Youth And yeah Virginia plain . Good song titles eh.

Billy T James, a New Zealand comedian at 2:04??? In the blue cowboy outfit.

@rolyheyhey4980

9 ай бұрын

I know. What a legend

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

Indeed: I thought we needed a spot of humour at that point, for those in the know … 😗

Pub rock set the scene for punk rock, entirely agree..Sadly it was a suicidal act!

@JimDriver

6 ай бұрын

Yes, indeed. Though many of the bands that stuck it out and adapted a little prospered…

@glynnwadeson5605

6 ай бұрын

@@JimDriver A lot of I suppose depended on their management and financial circumstances… I knew of one or two members of bands who hit on harder times who quit and returned to their full-time jobs under pressure from wives etc only to find their former bands finally broke through and started making money again by touring and building careers in Europe and later, the States. Security and happy family lives taking priority over endless touring I suppose.

@ruudvaneekeren8317

4 ай бұрын

Bands like Blondie and the Ramones have admitted that Dr. Feelgoods' performances in New York have strongly influenced them, also in terms of their stage act.

Not in UK...US was already there with pre punk/hard rock. Louder faster sloppy R/B rock. Now there are differences tween the two camps but one you can't shake is both growing past Prog. As stated Pub rock got you back on the dancefloor and clubs. Prog was stadiums and pretension. Punk was pretentious as well both UK/US had your art house scene which is crucial. It really evolved more into hard r/b in US then hard rock/metal. UK straight line from Prog to Pub to Punk...some offshoots like Pink Fairies etc. If you keep copying a sound it eventually gets more sloppy and faster less precise. The Stones version in '78 was an attempt to portray this punky R/B. Kilburn/High Roads great example of the scene...Dury kept mutating it as did Strummer/101ers...

@JimDriver

8 ай бұрын

I agree with what you say almost entirely. My only difference would be that sometimes people work on a sound or a concept and make it better and less sloppy…

@krisscanlon4051

21 күн бұрын

​​​​​@@JimDriverI agree on that too! Dig your stuff man...great videos ! Your research is incredible! I know something but you know a lot of something! Lots of artists just taking it to the pubs not just lps and all this pretense. McClaren lept on that back to basics just like CBGB which was more the scene the sounds...hard to describe but I get it! Malcolm was the catalyst...NY proto punk was around for sometime which was really eclectic...VU/Reed plus Max's Kansas City leads you to CBGB...punk pub in either continent was back to basics not easy listening,country rock, west coast laid back but live set up from Otway to Suicide...music on a beer budget = pub rock

Kinda contentious?

@JimDriver

9 ай бұрын

It's what keeps KZread spinning on its axis… 😉