Great video Dave, thank for hitting all the points of relevant detail. The NAD is one of the boxes on my radar and you having it in your system at one point is what brought me to your channel. Then it kinda just disappeared but I hung out anyway. Glad I did. Thanks! I’m always going to use the advice of a guy that knows as a point of departure and I would much rather hear what someone has to say about a product they used than look at the specs. But most importantly, gotta audition before purchase! Got it!

@karlschauff7989

5 ай бұрын

There are a lot of lightly used M22 and M23 amps on the market for very little money. You get an amazing value with the pre-owned NAD class D amps!

@condostereo

5 ай бұрын

Thank-you. I will take a look. Up until now I have been watching the flow of used gear at a place called “The Music Room”

I have learned over the last couple of years that class d isn't as bad as I once thought it was. What I learned was that it requires a particular speaker. NAD amplifiers I found regardless of module topology require a warmer and fast dynamic speaker to pair with to sound their best. On the other hand the PS audio stellar range which a friend of mine has and I've listened extensively to requires an even warmer more romantic sounding speaker too get the best out of it. And I kind of get that impression with class d, in the sense that with a good old class A b amp or class A amp you can basically stick that thing with any speaker, more or less, and it will sound good. I personally found that the best speakers for any of NADs class d amps is Dali. I came to this realization because you often see the two brands paired together and then I was at a dealer in Atlanta when I was on a business trip and they had a set of Dali floor standers set up with the m33, and honestly some of the best sound I've ever heard. And I want to make it clear that I'm not inexperienced in any way, I just think it's important to listen to items and evaluate them on their own merit. I think comparison style reviews can be enlightening and can give you a sense of good better best but I also think it's paramount to evaluate an item on what it has to offer in what it does offer. I've heard $100,000 Hi-Fi systems and I would never claim that the NAD m33 was as good as that however the m33 did do some truly beautiful things. If I had the money however my favorite brand and just truly phenomenal sonics and exactly what I want to hear when I sit down to listen to music is audio research. Either their tube products or their solid state gear produces the ideal sound for me

I've always wanted to experience Jeff Rowland gear---never seen a bad review of any of his stuff. Great video!

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

Thanks!

I really only have been into this hobby for a year. One of the hardest concepts for me to understand early on was when people would talk about listening to their Amps. As my skills in listening increase so does my understanding of what I am hearing. My entire life I have been annoyed by hiss. I would listen to and hear and complain about it when everyone around me told me I was nuts. When I started researching putting a system together, everything I read and was told that if getting rid of hiss was the goal never go anywhere near a class D. I auditioned one and loved what I heard. I threw caution to the wind and bought one used. For the first time in my life, I can now sit in my own home listening to lifelong favorites with no hiss. Class D is here to stay. I understand that Wattage is an over emphasized spec in amplification but from a cost standpoint you can get far more power at a lower cost with pretty clear sound on a good class D.

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

darn right!

@Artcore103

2 ай бұрын

"pretty clear"? No, with a quality implementation of the better class D options (like ncore/ncorex/purifi/nilai, maybe even some of the newer ICEpower modules, and some other chips too, I'm not sure if they've advanced to audiophile level vs just being decent and typically used as powerful sub amps...) you can get PERFECT sound reproduction with class D, literally world class as good as it gets sound. I would also NOT overpay for these technologies by buying stupid overpriced audiophile jewelry brands, but get something like a Buckeye, or one of several other similar value oriented companies amps. Very affordable for the power and performance. They're not just a better value, they are literally as good as it gets, no one is getting a better amp by spending 10+ grand, they're just biased and like to waste money or realllly value aesthetics. These products are indeed getting better, virtually past the point of audibility now (like I said, they're effectively perfect, cutting your distortion down from .001 to 0001% at this point is nice on paper but meaningless), but really we've had really good class D amps for like a decade or more if you knew what you were looking for. There was also (and you can still get them) the Tripath amps, colloquially called class T, that were and are incredible amplifiers as well. When they came out, they were far superior to the other class D competition at the time, and they still hold their own and are better than many amps out there today, though not on the level of the latest and greatest. I've had a ta2020, tk2050, and ta3020, and they are mind blowingly good. I have yet to get an ncorex/purifi amp but I plan to. Right now I have a TA3020 based amp. Some TK2050 and TA3020 implementations can be good for around 200w of power, and are bridgeable for even more power. They had a few other chipsets too that are less common... the ta0105, ta2021/2022 and some others I believe. They were all good, the TA2020/21/22 were low power amps, great sounding - people even called them "tubey",I guess for their midrange roundness/smoothness/fullness, but their tightness and accuracy and dynamics, and especially bass, were anything but tubey (as in way better), but didn't have a lot of wattage. Of course, those are subjective adjectives with an unclear meaning, since the amps had a flat frequency response as they should of course... though depending on the implementation, some were load dependent, meaning FR would change with impedance... not in a big way, but the HF response could be slightly lower or higher depending on impedance. This was a technical weakness of the Tripath design and reference implementation, though the issue could be solved with engineering (the specific implementation of the manufacturers using their chips could work around it). The bass on Tripath amps is absolutely incredible as well, powerful detailed textured all that. They measured well and were good for about .02% thd. You can get like 205-211w out of the connex ta3020 modules at 8 ohms and .1% thd, and I think 112w at .02%, and the amps can handle 4 ohms and provide double the output. The TK2050 is considered the best sounding one by some, which may be true but I'm not sure. I know my TA3020 sounds awesome, but I need even more power plus I need a lower noise floor. The noise floor is actually not particularly high, I'd say it's average, and wouldn't really be audible on typical 85db sensitive speakers, but I run very sensitive speakers with horns, so it is audible, and these newer top-end class D amps have vanishingly low noise that shouldn't be audible at all, plus more power, like double. 41hz was a brand making tripath stuff back in the day, and you can still get amps from hifimediy and connexelectronic among other places. These were largely DIY focused boards for various reasons (tripath went out of business and there was a lot of new old stock), but there were a handful of hifi brands that implemented tripath for a brief period. But the cool thing is that you can get a tk2050 or ta3020 amp module and suitable power supply for around 200-300 bucks if you want to try one out. It won't come in a case, but it will work out of the box, no actual DIY work on your end is needed, then you could put it in a case if you want. But if you go with a company like Buckeye, you can get one of these newer ncore/ncorex/purifi amps for between 600 and 1050 dollars (2 channel). 8500 dollars for a bel canto or whatever, that the guy mentioned in the video, is an absolute rip off. There are several builders like Buckeye within a similar price range, even if we say within 50%... that means 1500 tops. If you spend more than 600-1500 dollars for a 2 channel power amp featuring ncore/ncorex/purifi modules (depending on power and module choice) then you're an absolute fool because there will be zero difference in sound quality between a buckeye and a bel canto for example. Just a prettier box and fancy name... audiophile nonsense as always, with HUGE markups. The price difference is all in the markup, and chassis.

@bobr9605

2 ай бұрын

@@Artcore103 thanks for the discussion. I love learning as much as I can. In my case I went from pretty much zero to end game. But this decision was not made blind. I have listened to as many speakers in my life as I possibly could. As a lover of the old school 70's/80's infinity speakers it was that tonality and punch. The Revel Salon II is probably the closest in sound and popular to recognize and explain what I was looking for. The Infinity Kappa 9 Series were notoriously named amp killers. The speakers came in varying sizes from 6 to 9 but the 9's had an ability to make you feel surrounded in the music not just listening to it. You felt it and I'm not talking about base and I'm not talking about loud volume. (Although they could do both very well.) I had reconnected with a buddy of mine that was an Infinity fan back in the day and invited me over to hear his current set up. keep in mind that every piece of equipment he had was so far above my pay grade it wasn't even funny but at the time I had no idea the cost of the equipment. When he turned it on, I can tell you nothing in my life ever sounded that good. Did that set the placebo? Maybe. I don't know but, on his advice, we went and listened to All the well-known "audiophile" brands. B&W, Magnapan, Focal, Revel, Martin Logan, Paradigm, Polk, Kef and Klipsh. This was our new hobby because we loved different sounds. While each of them are good speakers in their own right, none of them produced the sound that my friends Legacy Audio speakers did. Legacy Audio has a reputation as being overpriced Gucci and were for my budget as well. They weren't overpriced in comparison to all the others I listened to, actually when comparing to the top mass marketed models in all the other brands they were on the lower side of overpriced speakers. Now to my point. over the course of listening is when I learned the basics of the effects of amps on sound. I was lucky to find the Legacy Audio speakers I wanted for 1/4 the price as new and I started with a Marantz 7055 a/b amp I already had and its rated at 125 watts at 8ohms. and I was pushing thirsty 4ohm speakers. When I paired the two it sounded very anemic to me in comparison to my friends. All the chat boards said that was more than sufficient to push them, but it nowhere came near to my buddies rig pushed with McIntosh. I'm not suggesting everyone needs McIntosh and there was absolutely no way I was going to afford that, even used. I needed an alternative. I wanted to match my buddies sound and had no financial means to do it. I am fully aware that for the average person my system is crazy overpriced and even for my lifestyle it's a high percentage of my entertainment dollars. Again I got lucky and found a used class D Amp with the Ice modules from Legacy Audio as well. To me the difference was night and day. It was the Class D that eliminated the hiss. Now can I give all the specifics as to why the ice module is cleaner in sound? No. I A/B'd it for two people Both preferred the Class D. And yes that unit new was above my paygrade as well but second hand made it available for less than half. I got very lucky in finding and getting the sound I was looking for, granted for what is a lot of money for me, but at what would be considered mid-fi pricing. IMO my system is now very comparable to my friends. Is it better? I honestly do not believe so. Does the Class D get me as close as my finances will allow me to get? I believe it does exactly that. I would imagine a vinyl, class A purist would not even like my system.

Great and clear evaluation! A guy here in Holland bought the award winning NAD M23 a year ago and sels it now for the reason your mentioned, loosing € 750. We audiophiles should be aware and always firts try out in our own system before buying....

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

indeed

I’m new to this hifi landscape. After doing some research it seems a lot of manufacturers are using Class D modules from Hypex, Purifi, Ice Power and not really stating this in their specs. Some of these “manufacturers” are really just “assemblers”. The Bel Canto seems to have the right implementation of these technologies. However, it looks like some amps with the same module can range in price from $600 - $7000+. This will definitely be an ever evolving and interesting part of the market.

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

nice reply.Thanks for that.Its the implementation more so than the module

@karlschauff7989

5 ай бұрын

Stick to Hypex and Purifi modules. VTV, March Audio, etc all have really good amps built with those modules. VTV offers a ton of options for input buffers that really boost the sound quality. They are really friendly for customization and experimenting with different chips.

I want to upgrade (to take further advantage of my new Cardas Parsec RCA cables) to hear anything better that's

@greatlookinglandscap

3 ай бұрын

nice!

Would be interesting to compare the E1X with NAD M66 + M23. Around the same price, too. I currently own the M33 and loving the Dirac room control. M66 will be at another level, so will be looking to upgrade later this year.

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

its the complete integration this unit offers is done at such a high level it really was a shock to me and especially the phono stage.Remember canto is pretty high end cutting edge tech with there top integrated at over 40k.I love NAD but feel canto is another level with e1x being the entry and being this good

How about that Daniel Hertz Maria? Twice as good for twice the price?

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

its doesn’t work that way.You know that.So the maria is 16 k usd? wow.For me I just dont like the look at all of the new Hertz.It looks too italian chrome and acrylic.Its not a pleasing aesthetic and when dropping that kind of cake I have to love the look or would never buy.Thats me

Best class D amp i heard was the Spectron Musician amp from 20 years ago

@Jack96993

5 ай бұрын

I have one! Spectron musical MK lll design by John Ulrich Unfortunately the right channel is out 😢 The reviews said very close to Jeff Roland amps

@danlivni2097

5 ай бұрын

@@Jack96993 Can anyone fix your Spectron amp. I know John Ulrich passed a few years ago. I heard the Spectron Musician amp, with the Z systems digital preamp, Meridian 566-20 Dac on a Meridian 500 transport, JM Lab 920.1 speakers. This system sounded great. That Spectron amp sounded like a great tube amp.

Thank you so much for your videos! What is your opinion on the line magetic lm518 with a open baffle? Because I mention Herb used it with stand mount and you also do. Thanks for your input.

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

i used my open baffle with my 518 for years.A match made in heaven.Dont anymore because i sold many components to downsize the canto which streams and has a superb dac and phono no longer needing those separate.

👍👍✌️

Great show.

I believe

So now what was a great cost to performance item will become a "hi end audiophile" cost no object product?

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

dont know.I love the Canto tho.Its a keeper here

Hi Dave from Kelowna! Great channel. Are you using the ex1 DAC and streamer? How does it compare with Lumin or Innuos? Is the ex1 app decent? Thanks

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

mine is the e1x integrated basically the same thing adding power.The unit resembles my favorite streamer signature which is innuos on the streaming sections .I say that because I owned lumin t2.I did not care for it at all.The bel canto is very natural and a full analog presentation.The app is stable and very good just not quite as fancy as innuos sense,aurender conductor,auralic lightning etc.I am fussy that way but the bel canto seek app is in conjuction with mconnect and is just fine and continues to improve

Good job for a beginner 👍

@greatlookinglandscap

4 ай бұрын

no I am the one and only.Your watching the best

Purifi, or how I stopped worrying and love class D.

@greatlookinglandscap

3 ай бұрын

lovely!

Hi Dave, did you ever hear the devialet amps?

@greatlookinglandscap

5 ай бұрын

I have not.Sure they may sound good but they promised customers streaming years ago and failed to deliver

@domenicofpv6490

5 ай бұрын

@@greatlookinglandscap so good to know, bad customer service and engineering departement in this case