Cats are pretty good at telling when their humans are upset, so maybe Angus came to check in on you, Caelan.

CW: Genocide and any thing horrible you can think of So first off I would like to thank y’all for talking about this and handling this topic with care! Because many Americans and other westerners don’t know anything about this. I have one correction though those indigenous people who lived in my home country (The Bahamas) they were called the Lucayans and those who lived in Cuba and the greater Antilles were called the Tainos . In Cuba there were natural resources such as some gold and fertile soil so Columbus was able to set up an oppressive genocidal colonial system that he could use to get wealthy. But in the Bahamas the soil was infertile and only good for subsistence farming (which wasn’t an issue for the Lucayans because of their collectivist culture), additionally the Bahamas has no natural valuable material like gold, so no wealth could be extracted , so instead of setting up an oppressive colony , he took them all as slaves, and those that he didn’t want I.e “weak” people , or the elderly , he simply slaughtered. And those who were not slaughtered, succumbed to small pox. As said in the podcast through dna some evidence of the tainos (those who lived in Cuba and hispanola) still resides within the people who live in the mordern day, but the lucayans were all wiped out. Unlike the tainos where there is a revivalist movement today, there exist no evidence that suggest that a single lucayan survived the rampaging diseases brought by the Europeans. After the carnage, for three hundred years my country was un-inhabited, until America gained independence and kicked the loyalist out. And then the loyalist brought their slaves over, which is how black people (the modern day inhabitants) got to the Bahamas. Disturbingly In the Bahamas up until a decade ago (specifically October of 2012) we all celebrated “hero’s day” a day where we celebrated Columbus for “discovering“ the new world. Until we found out all the information displayed in this podcast now he is recognized as the evil person he was. Since it was our ignorance that led us to celebrating a genocidal dictator, this history is taught to children as low as the third grade to keep the memory alive of a group of people no longer able to share their own story of how colonialism killed them all. Yeah sorry for the long post but thanks for this it’s good to see that other people are recognizing the genocide. Full disclosure: I edited this a bit for clarity

@duskianfae

Жыл бұрын

I usually listen to these podcasts as I work because, as monstrous as the people were, there was always a levity in the tone wher`e we got to mock and laugh at these horrible people's demise. But this one. This one broke me. I couldn't do anything but stare at the screen in shock and dismay. I always knew Colombo was a monster that deserves to rot in hell for what he did to indigenous people, but hearing the extent and details shook my core. EDIT: Okay I did not mean to comment replying to yours (I did not notice I had it open :') ) but I'm gonna leave it here because my reaction is the same.

I was literally shaking with rage during this episode. I had heard that Columbus was awful, but hearing the actual details of what he and his men (and the Spanish empire) did makes me want to tear down every statue of him and rip to shreds any textbook that casts him in a sympathetic light. Thank you for educating people on this.

Thank you for all your kind words for the Arawak/ Taino, as part of the diaspora this was a hard episode.

@introusas

2 ай бұрын

My ex is Taino. He is so proud of his ancestry and I absolutely see why. This shit is devastating, but I’m glad that these awful “people” weren’t able to extinguish your light entirely 💜

Thank you for this episode. The continual mythologizing and historical extenuating of genocidal colonizers like Columbus and the english pilgrims is absolutely maddening. Even outside of the U.S., throughout the Caribbean and continental Americas, the vast majority of people still believe and propagate the blatant lies that our European colonizers taught us about our own history and subjugation. The amount of fellow carribean people and own Jamaican relatives who still venerate Columbus and wish to adobt American thanksgiving is baffling and disgraceful. The generational indoctrination of whitesupremist historical revision the spanish and british have done in JA is so pervasive that it is still common (from my experience) to see people say that the arawak/tiano had no influence/left no trace on modern jamaican culture, and are all extinct. I legit had one of my relatives visiting tell me that "we should be grateful [to our] colonizers because without them we wouldnt exist" (in refrence to race mixing on the island), mind you, we are only 3 generations from our enslaved african ancestors. Rant aside, thank you for this episode. The still living tiano and mixed descendants must revive what has almost entirely ripped away from us and denied of our ancestors, but that is nearly impossible until the lies of conquerors and slavers are completely dismantled.

Good gods, that man was monstrous.

The part about the babies really got me. I have my own 3 month old, so it really hit home. Imagining someone murdering a baby like that, or feeling like I had to drown my own baby to save them from suffering of starvation... It's so terrible.

i thought i was ready but this is the angriest i've gotten listening to one of these.

@nightwingphd8580

Жыл бұрын

and it got worse. i don't think i can sit through this in one go.

I've just listened to this a year after it's posted- As a British person, I knew very little about Christopher Columbus... Words cannot describe how shocked and horrified I am to learn about what he did, shock and horror which doesn't even come close to being comparable to the fear and pain these indigenous people experienced. I don't cry easily, but my heart bleeds for the Taino- Kind, compassionate, peaceful people who gave freely with open hearts. This was not easy to listen to, probably much harder for Caelan, Mandy and Hoots especially to talk about, but thank you for educating me. All my love for the Taino descendants!

In 5th grade, the teacher asked what year Columbus sailed the ocean blue. I raised my hand and said “1942”. She said “1492” and I said “what’s the difference?” And she said “about 500 years and everybody laughed and I still didn’t get it. I’ve always been embarrassed by that memory, so thank you, Hoots. I feel less alone. :)

Hey RtD team, hoots, Mandy, caelan, and all others who may have contributed to the podcast, I just want to say, from the very bottom of my heart, thank you. As a Puerto Rican with Taino ancestry, my experience growing up was one of always being told that we are Taino, that we live in the US, and that despite being Indians are not regarded as such by a country who has participated in the historical oppression and genocide of Indian peoples. That we speak a language originating from men who sailed across the ocean to murder us, led by the monster Christopher Columbus. And yet still every year this country celebrates his legacy. I am normally a very emotionally hardy person, I don't cry easily, but I couldn't get through this video without sobbing, I'm even whimpering as I type this, but hearing the evil my ancestors suffered, the full naked truth of what happened to them in graphic detail, and that even in spite of all this the monsters that did it to them are celebrated today filled me rage and sorrow. Hearing Jorge's quote I think was the moment I couldn't hold it back anymore, I wept. I needed to hear this, and now I will share it with others like me, and they will know, and then we will remember. Thank you.

@AoifeBheag

2 ай бұрын

You have true courage. I believe that your ancestors' hearts beat within you!

When i think of the most horrific actions that have been done by humans to other humans, the first things that come to mind are events like the Holocaust or Unit 731. ... I have now added a third tragedy to that list.

@SimplyGaming23

2 ай бұрын

If you don’t mind having your day ruined, the winston churchill episode might add a fourth to that list

taino people claiming their heritage is amazing they deserved to be treated like human beings this episode is angering & saddening, but i cannot imagine the terror they felt then to have their lives destroyed

It's poignant that this podcast has covered the likes of Vlad Tepes and has been plenty fucked up before now, but I think this is the first where everyone's fallen into shocked silence. And yet when I post fuck Columbus on the day people act like I'm the asshole for not letting people enjoy things. Truly horrifying, but given the track record of catholics through history, still largely on brand. Fucking horrifying though.

Pretty minor point in the grand scheme of things, but I've tended to hear Taíno pronounced more like "ta-ee-no" than "tie-no", at least from modern people who identify with the label. Mostly because I can't even find words to address any of the rest of it. I knew things were bad, but couldn't have imagined just how bad.

Hoots: maybe i have dyscalculia. no more so than columbus apparently

I think the argument about "you can't judge people based on modern standards" makes sense if you're trying to understand the history (how they would have fit within society at the time etc.). But it doesn't make any sense to me why you can't judge them by modern standards for other purposes, like whether they should be upheld as a role model for current-day people.

Jesus fucking Christ. Thank you for this episode.

Sending empathy

Shit- I've been avoiding listening to this one, because I KNEW what I was going into- I've read some of the People's History and quotes from Bartolome de las Casas- and I'm still sitting here sick and to my stomach and teary. Thank you for highlighting the Taino revivalist community; I didn't know there was anyone who was moving to reclaim that heritage, or that anyone at all survived.

It's ok Animorphs is pretty much exactly the same as American Girls.

@VinceWhitacre

Жыл бұрын

Also loving that you're posting this monstrous misinformed slaver with millions of deluded fans three days after the muskpocalypse. Way to stay in the zeitgeist Hoots!

@VinceWhitacre

Жыл бұрын

Oh shit Ayiti - that's where Haiti's name comes from. Cool little Christmas egg or wtfever

@VinceWhitacre

Жыл бұрын

Now I'm hoping you'll have time for las Casas... always good to remember these horrific monsters were correctly recognized as such in their own time.

@VinceWhitacre

Жыл бұрын

Ok good it sounds like we're getting there now...

@VinceWhitacre

Жыл бұрын

Awwww hi Angus 😻

If there's one thing I learned from reading A People's History Of The United States, it's that there are fewer ways to quickly and effectively radicalize someone than having them read A People's History Of The United States. I think there might still be a free copy (of an earlier edition, missing a couple more recent chapters) kicking around, distributed by History Is A Weapon with Zinn's permission.

Commenting to get y'all some engagement. Take care. Sending lots of love. 💜

Hooooooly shit this one took multiple attempts to finish and now it's done eight months later. I have no words.

Another possible response to the claim that "they didn't know any better" is to point out that we still don't know any better today. These things still happen today, and powerful people still justify them, and ordinary people still take pleasure thinking about the suffering of the "enemy." Hell, we literally have millions of people today who justify Columbus' own atrocities. Little has actually changed in 500 years. At one point you mentioned animal suffering , so I think it's worth mentioning that today our entire food system is based on a system of industrial animal torture that gives billions of animals literally nothing but lifelong suffering. To Columbus such a system would have been incomprehensible.

@oliverbohac9086

4 ай бұрын

Was coming to the comments to find this particular one

You all are doing such great work with this show. Solidarity and love.

This was harrowing. Did not expect to be sobbing on my way to work…aside from the usual reasons. I hope you’re all okay after that, especially Hoots. You poor thing. ❤

I knew ever word of this already, but it still made me cry so hard. Thanks for the very, very hard work, Hoots.

1:11:14 I know it's a relatively universal thing among many cultures to be generous and enjoy celebration but I find it really interesting that Caribbean people are KNOWN for being loud, happy, generous, hospitable, family oriented party people. Although the Taino people may have nearly disappeared, that spitit still remains. Also, sometimes girls (like my SIL) are named *_Taina_* which is a quite obvious homage to Taino ancestors.

Oh boy this was by far the most horrifying episode... thanks for linking the portraits, they are beautiful

Note, probably someone has mentioned it but the spanish inquisition was agents of the spanish crown, the "spanish" there is because of the autonomy it had from rome. The main preoccupation was rooting out "false converts" It is, i believe, necessary that we retain "colombus day" not as celebration but as remembrance & recognition & solemnity. The man, & it was not just him alone but him nonetheless, deserves no praise, nor any elegies. That he established enduring contact between the americas & afroeurasia after millennia apart is the sole worthwhile thing of his existence. would it that god had struck him dead after he had spoken of the lands he found.

I cant really add more insight than what you 3 and other commenters have mentioned already so I'm just gonna say r.i.p. to all the victims and power to the surviving culture, fuck columbus and all the cogenociders. thank you 3 for this episode

An interesting thing about Columbus and the crusades is that the Ottoman Empire was pretty much the world’s strongest power at the time, with near-exclusive control over trade with East Asia, so religious superiority and economic superiority went hand in hand in the 15th century

I graduated high school in 2018 and no I at least wasn't taught he was the first person to believe in a spherical earth. In fact we were taught he calculated the circumfrence of earth wrong. I also remember from the Bill Nye shows that Archimedes had figured out the circumference of the earth weel before that based off of shadows of sticks in wells during certain times of the day.

This podcast now makes me think Isabella was actually Hades from the Disney animated movie moonlighting as a mortal.

My night is ruined but I'm still glad I sat through this.

No words strong enough.

Hoots: "The Spanish Inquisition was so evil and so bad it's practically a joke nowadays." Mel Brooks: "You're welcome! Want to sing along?" Monty Python: "Hold on, we have the best quote for this!"

how the hell do we have a "columbus day"

He was even outraging the spanish queen, who is used to quite a bit bad colonist stuff, and being ok with it.

When you hear stories of how kind & generous the Taino people were & how that worked out for them, you might not agree with isolationist societies but you certainly understand the thinking behind them. say what you want about the north sentinel people living in the Indian Ocean, but having the exact opposite mentality towards outsiders as the Taino seems to be working out pretty well for them compared to other indigenous populations around the globe. As much as I absolutely oppose the philosophy that Robert A. Heinlein promoted in "Starship Troopers" events such as these threw out human history, as well as genetic memory from all the way back to our primate ancestors on all fours are where this ideology stems from.

It is so incredibly horrific to listen to what they did under Columbus and the sheer level of casual cruelty. It reminds me of reading about Nanjing and the Japanese empire during world war 2. You know you've entered the worst of humanity if even terrible people, be they kings or nazies, tell you to chill the fuck out.

Christopher Colombus Day is on my birthday and he does not deserve that day. I've always been particularly hateful of him for being such a horrid man and tarnishing the date of October 12th edit: I had known he was terrible but didn't realize just how bad it was in this much detail . . .

i’ve gone down multiple youtube rabbitholes on the worst atrocities ever committed, and this is the first time i’ve had to stop the video just to take a break. jesus fucking christ.

It's called Retro-fitting, so wouldn't it be Retro-fa- [BANNED]

Y'all can you PLEASE stop making so many visual references? Act like you're talking to a blind person. There's at least one visual reference in each of these, and you make zero effort to include a photo, link, or anything of the sort for the viewers to follow along.

@Sugar3Glider

Жыл бұрын

@@tamagothchic where is the link to their Instagram?

@MainelyMandy

Жыл бұрын

@@Sugar3Glider in the description box

@Sugar3Glider

Жыл бұрын

@@MainelyMandy ahhh, I was looking for a link