As an actor, a lot of student films have transport or at least food at set instead of payment. Even if the shoot is only a handful of actors and crews

Jeez, all the money people throw at Channel Awesome you think they could afford a microwave and Chef Boyardi ravioli at least to feed the talent on those awful anniversary movies.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

lol

I think the disclaimer, that you have only followed NC since 2016 is very important. You have not seen uploads appearing and disappearing because Viacom was going hard after KZread. You did not see the migration to that guy with the glasses. People that followed from the beginning saw this site grow and eventually crumble. The people that are the most shocked are the ones that spent a lot of time over a couple of years on that site. If you enjoy something for that long, and then a slew of shitty things crop up underneath, you would be shocked as well

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

you are 100% accurate, i would imagine it would have been more shocking had i watched from the beginning

Here's my take as a long time fan of CA: As far as it being the "Doug Walker Show", in the early days it was kind of marketed as more as "Doug Walker and Friends". Of course, it became clear around 2012, the former was the long term goal. I forgive some of the naïveté of some of these producers, most of them being in the middle of or fresh out of college. I remember being sold on the idea of "exposure" when I was a young, aspiring cartoonist. I eventually wised up. I do think that it was fair for them to expect the production of the anniversary specials to improve as the years went by, but one long time suspicion of mine has been confirmed in this document and that is that Mike Michaud (Pronounced Mis-Shawed, although your way is funnier) is an absolute cheapskate who has never heard of the phrase "Spend money to make money". Surely they could have spent a little on better lighting equipment or a boom mic. As far as those who stayed for years, I agree but with you but I can see why they stayed in those early days. Their style of using video clips to illustrate their points got hit heavily on KZread back in the day, and the service they used (blip.tv) just wasn't as popular so it seemed like the only way they could maintain traffic without getting hit with multiple copyright strikes was to stick with CA. The thing that makes me laugh though is Michaud considered TWTG to be in direct competition with ScrewAttack. It was hard to argue since both websites drew heavy traffic, but the two reasons I laugh at this is because Doug is friends with the Angry Video Game Nerd (who was a face on SA at the time), whom he famously collaborated with. The reason I laugh is because Michaud was just out of his league when you compare his lack of business sense to a website that is owned by MTV. The incompetence of management has been known by fans for a long time. I'm just surprised people are surprised considering what we've been hearing for years. I'm not surprised by the abuse allegations either, though I had no idea how bad it was for some people.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

ya some of the stuff in the doc is straight up wrong as far as how mike talked to people and the sexual grooming allegations. I'm just not one to grab my pitchfork when the internet mob decides something\someone is bad now.. I still get surface level enjoyment out of watching NC and that's good enough for me

Oh dear lord... No one was complaining about being treated like celebrities or having a limo. The complaint (regarding the on-set issue) was about not having water. In the desert. Or food on set, for shoots that could take up to fifteen hours. That's basic shit, and honestly relatively inexpensive. Even on small sets, even with indie budgets, those things are provided. Especially when you aren't paying the talent. It's just common sense.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

My main point (which I'm probably going to have to re-iterate over and over again) is that I wasn't SURPRISED at the lack of those things given how unprofessional NC was especially in the early days.

@ShintouGenesis

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that did not come through very well. But, fair enough. Glad you cleared it up.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

that was my one concern that is turning out to be fully realized

@ShintouGenesis

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, youtube can be a bitch like that. I know your pain.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

meh.. i probably coulda emphasized it more

Thank you for being the voice of reason. So many people are very emotional about this, especially the "victims" , but honestly, as an outsider and as an adult, with very few exceptions the whole google document is a bunch of whining and people mistaking a hobby the wanted to make money with as a job. It comes across as entitlement because it seems like their attitude was that everybody somehow always owes them.

appreciate your honesty but couldn't disagree more. Just because shitty treatment and taking advantage of people is the norm doesn't mean you should just accept it and carry on. Speaking out is the only way to change things for the better. And creative people are usually not the most savvy business people.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

fair enough, i agree with your point that creative people aren't very business savvy.. I can speak from experience on that one

It's always nice to start your hot take on trending topics, by saying that you have no actual knowledge or insight on that topic.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

blahh blahh blahhh

@futonrevolution7671

6 жыл бұрын

Maybe you should remove "level-headed" from the video description.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

I stopped reading at "or that their work is important just because they are not famous.." .. ya, NEVER said that nor are those my feelings about the situation. I already said what I have to say I'm just responding to this because you're trying to make some kind of strawman argument to make me look like an asshole. Typical KZread comment.

@futonrevolution7671

6 жыл бұрын

Responding to things you don't read seems to be a running theme for you.

@obo2999

6 жыл бұрын

Why should we value their work when they don't value it.

Student films have craft services. Just saying.

@DieTheaterPilger

6 жыл бұрын

Because Student Film get Money from the University for it (In Germany - i don't know if it is the same in America) - what Doug did was a big, no-budget Home-Movie with "Friends"

@evelynbasham1673

6 жыл бұрын

Well I still think they should have provided water on Kickassia at least. Reno, Nevada isn't somewhere you should be without water.

@TwitchingZombie

6 жыл бұрын

In america it might depend on the University but I didn't get any help from my college on videos. I wish I'd gone to video school in Germany haha

One of the few videos that gives accountability to the producers.

I may be a little fuzzy on the details because it's been a while since I worked on a set, but regardless of the quality and budget of a movie (even student films), you have to provide at least some kind of food and water if the time on schedule lasts at least six hours. They were on set for up to 18 hours on some days. That's a big problem because it's extremely unethical, and saying "no shit" doesn't get them off the hook

Transformers: “You got the touch, you got the power!”

They made holly sign the contract after she was fired the day (or day after) she came out of surgery so she could get the money she worked hard for

I respectfully disagree with your feelings on this whole thing. But that's ok. But to me personally, the "This shit comes with the territory" reasoning does not jive with me at all. So what if it does? That doesn't make it acceptable or ok. And on the topic of the Michaud not listening to other content producers, that's just unacceptable behavior from a CEO. That would be like if there was a CEO who didn't listen to anyone who worked for the company except for the guy who is the most productive on the staff. To me personally, that is a shitty way to run a business and it should not just be ignored because that's the way it has been for some companies in the past and in the present. Michaud was using people and there were times when he didn't even pay producers for their content on the site. And just because NC is the most popular IP that doesn't' excuse shitting on other people working for the company and giving them fewer opportunities to succeed. If he didn't want to share his peice of the pie than he should have never created the site or ask for people to make content for it in the first place. And he was getting a nice chunk of revenue from the other producers too that he was using like tissue paper. And a good amount of the content producers you mentioned here got truly popular becuause of being featured on TGTW and Channel Awesome. There is no way that Angry Joe or Linkara especially would have gotten as big as they did without being featured on the site. Linkara was not a big popular content creator until after he was on the site for years. And the producers that weren't getting treated like garbage by managment were not asking to be hoisted towards the top. They were asking to be featured every now and then on the site, which is something a lot of them were actually promised at one point by management and never got. The only way to make any kind of difference or change in the workplace or in your environment is to speak up about the terrible treatment you are receiving. If you just push forward and carry on nothing is ever going to change. And the behavior and actions by the management will continue to go unpunished and those that come after you if you do decide to leave will be left with the same shitty situation that you dealt with beforehand. Despite the fact that I disgreed with a lot of what you had to say, I still found the video to be worth a watch. Just for a differing opinion. But you and I definitely do not see eye to eye on the whole "get over it" mentality.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

again.. the main point here is "I'm not surprised it happened".. that's what I knew people weren't going to understand about this video.. not saying it's right.. just saying i'm not surprised

@obo2999

6 жыл бұрын

Dancing with Ghosts they weren't paid by Michaud, they were paid by blip. Any of these people could have left the site and done it on their own. They didn't.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

i believe that's one of the points i was trying to make

@happycat7728

6 жыл бұрын

+1 theres is nothing more to say

This video has aged pretty well. The authors of "Change the Channel" were bitter & entitled losers.

I basically agree with all of your points. All I can say is that about a month ago, Channel Awesome was in my city for a convention and they stayed at the hotel I work at. I ended up hanging out with Doug Walker, his brother, and the Cinema Snob for a couple hours and they were all very kind and genuine, and treated me as an equal. It actually made me feel guilty for drunkenly hate-watching Doug's movies

@DancingwithGhosts

6 ай бұрын

haha interesting.. i always wondered how doug was outside of youtube.. i felt like it coulda went either way with him.

@adamdravian

6 ай бұрын

@@DancingwithGhosts If you've watched any of his non-Nostalgia Critic where he's talking out of character, that's pretty accurate to how he is in real life. When he gets excited during conversation he does go into a hint of his Bugs Bunny on crack Nostalgia Ciritic thing, but not nearly as obnoxious. But you probably just meant if he was a prick or not, and in my case, he was the furthest thing from a prick or a diva. He was even willing to answer my question as to whether he *really* liked the AVGN movie or not, to which he chuckled and said, "No I *really* did like it."

they said they nearly every film has them, more so water seeing where they filmed the first movie

they knew all this but kept quite about it for fame. All those people complaining were ok with mistreatments for extra viewerships and lo and behold they still couldn't get the views they wanted. So they decided to backstab CA when it lost its popularity (except for drGonzo) in hope to get more views. They are dishonest people and want fane and money in exchange for their own dignity and royalty to brand.

And it's easy to have the "I would have left" argument in hindsight. But you never know what might happen if you were in the same situation. A lot of these people relied upon the site for their livelihoods or saw it as an opportunity to expand their brand. And who knows maybe some of them had a contract in place. And also there are a lot of situations when you don't realize how bad things are until the moment you decide to leave. And even then, you try to make things right to keep your job. Which is what a lot of these content producers tried to do. The thing is just because they could have left, that doesn't excuse the abuse. If you feel that it does? Which I don't feel that you do. That's fine. But I don't feel that way at all. And I also don't think they are just "complaining" either. Some of it is kinda whiney and not really that big of a deal. But there are a lot of stuff on here that is quite the opposite. And keep in mind a lot of these producers were making content in the early days of you tube and in this kind of entertainment. It wasn't anywhere near as easy to get exposure like this as it is today, nor was it as easy to just leave and have just as big of an audience outside of the site.

@obo2999

6 жыл бұрын

It took some of them 10 years to leave. 10 years. Plenty of time to figure out you don't like something and leave.

@Nelcomarproductions

6 жыл бұрын

geezy1776 true

@Nelcomarproductions

5 жыл бұрын

They could have left. They did not want to because they thought they would end up like Doug.

@Nelcomarproductions

5 жыл бұрын

@@FinnishFilmFan lupa did try to ruin spoony of a joke. He is still right. If you get upset over a joke, then you should have spoken up over the abuse.

Dude, your channel is awesome. Thank you for saying what we all think and feel lol.

@DancingwithGhosts

Жыл бұрын

thank you! this is a pretty dated scandal at this point but I'm glad you still got enjoyment out of it

@DrPooks

6 ай бұрын

Watching in 2024. Love the subtle throwing shade, intentionally or unintentionally, of referring to The Nostalgia Chick / Lindsay Ellis as a "lesser known blogger". Ellis got canceled later by her monster mob, but somehow still is milking people on Patreon for tens of thousands a month for producing no exclusive content.

Really enjoy these videos.

...well craft services are required for even the smallest of budget films. It could be just cookies, sodas, water, chips, meat and cheese tray...but you are required to have something.

While not all of the grievances in the document have been verified, yes, I sincerely doubt the producers would just make grievances up for the sake of slandering Channel Awesome and such. I think this because these grievances can always be investigated at some point, and if the investigations concluded that these grievances are factually false, then it would just make the producers look bad and result in many of their viewers leaving them. Seeing as how some of them rely on views in order to make a living, I'm certain that they wouldn't go through all that trouble just to make Channel Awesome look bad and nothing more.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

at no point in my video did i elude to the fact that the producers were fabricating these allegations

@Nelcomarproductions

6 жыл бұрын

electricmastro people have don't this before. They could be making up lies because they never reached the fame and glory as NC or Joe did.

Oh dear...I'm shockedd on what happened...NOT. All joking aside I never found channel Awesome be partucularly good at comedy but oh boy they have excceed all expecations when its come to Tragedy and Drama. I think this shit storm is far from over, so I say get some popcorn buckle up as we have seen nothing yet.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

same here.. I'm taking some weird enjoyment in watching it all unfold

@DoctorHver

6 жыл бұрын

You might want make another video about this since so much has unfolded in about week.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

I was thinking about it but I'm hesitant. I'm not a "drama" channel.. But I may make one more video

Preach, Josh!

Not gonna lie, I did like some of those movies the channel awesome people did, but only because I heard the AVGN was gonna participate in it, & I’m also a really big fan of Phelous (Lupa’s BF) who also appeared in these cheap films, but they seem like jerks just slapping each other on the back of the head SEVERAL times, & there fight scenes suck, like I’m pretty sure none of these guys had ever been in a single fight ever. They could’ve hired stunt doubles or something, but they instead do The Worst fighting I have EVER seen! Omg it’s unbelievable how bad it is, the females (Lupa vs Nostalgia Chick) did way better! In any case, these geeks seemed like a bunch of mean geeks, with an over use of slapping each other on the back of the head & insult each other as a mean for humor & it gets old quick. The cheap film I am mostly talking about is known as “To Boldly Flee” & it is over 3 hours long!

I agree with just about everything you say in this. A lot of the complainers were 2nd rate copycats of NC. Obscurist lupa was one of the biggest complainers and in my opinion she was the worst one on there. She wasn’t funny, clever, or good. The only thing she had going for her was that she was kind of pretty. Other than that her videos sucked.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

I've never seen any of these people's videos so I can't really say.. but it is nice to have someone agree with me instead of calling me names lol

@andreapuschl6340

6 жыл бұрын

I've always liked her content but I don't understand her complaints and behavior. It seems so misguided.

Five years ago?

@DrPooks

6 ай бұрын

The YT algo is a fickle mistress.

Not something I know a lot about but interesting video mate.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

thanks tom good to hear from you again

@twistedpreacher2455

6 жыл бұрын

Dancing with Ghosts is it me or has your subs really been picking up recently???

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

ya man.. that stupid "why i left the apple cult" video has given me a shitload of subs plus some of my other videos are getting into the thousands of plays so i guess that's helping too.. it's finally starting to pay off lol

@twistedpreacher2455

6 жыл бұрын

Dancing with Ghosts You're genuinely original and a good guy too. Well done!

Slimer!!! I love your shirt

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

thanks :) are you from Jax too?

@kdwyer2

6 жыл бұрын

No I'm in NJ :(

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

ahh ok, i thought you were referring to the store Video Game Rescue, but then I realized I have dyslexia and you were saying "Slimer" and that you were referring to the slime guy... I need to take a nap

@kdwyer2

6 жыл бұрын

No worries. It would be cool if Jax and NJ collided. Cuz we have so much in common would be awesome to hang out!!!

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

oh really? I've never been to New Jersey so I wouldn't know.. and I'm sure Jersey Shore isn't a good representation of you guys XD

I heard that you said that this wasn’t meant to indicate that CA’s practices were right, only that they weren’t surprising. But that’s still how your opinions come off as. It does seem like you are placing all the blame on the everyone but CA. And you are making this out to be far more black and white than it actually is. Also, it should be noted that none of the people who made the document actually knew everything in that document until the moment they compiled it. So most of them didn’t have the full picture on how fucked up the situation with CA management actually was. Like the covering up of JewWario’s sexual misconduct or Mike Ellis’ harassment of multiple people or Mike Michaud’s apparent misogyni. And while it might be logical and acceptable that CA focused on NC and other big names when it came to promotion it’s important to remember that they made promises to promote everyone time and again. So they weren’t being honest with the creators about focusing on NC and few of the other bigger names. Another point worth noting is that CA has been around for a loooong time. And when a lot of these people started doing videos online it was still very much a new thing and making your living off of online videos was still something new and thus people didn’t often realize that there should be contracts and other stuff like that involved. After all, in the beginning CA was just a bunch of likeminded individuals doing videos on subjects of common interest. So I don’t really agree with your points but at least your hot take is a bit different from everyone else’s. Only other person I’ve seen making similar arguments is GamerFromMars and he also made it kind of seem like his opinion was that these practices were acceptable even though he probably also meant that they simply weren’t surprising.

3:40 _It's like: "All right, big boy, let's see you do better!" and they never do._ I do feel ya, but that's cool. You don't yourself have to be a (better) cook to say that the food tastes shitty and have a legit point, right?

Also, you talk about him not wanting to relinquish his power at the top? Ok that would make sense but lots of us have actually read the document. If you had, You’d know that he sold the IPR to mike. Dough doesn’t even own the rifts to the NC....so again....you have very little idea of what’s going on. If I were to make a video about this, I’d at least do a fair amount of research.

A film critic you might actually like is Ralphthemoviemaker. He is both a great film critic AND a very talented filmmaker. He makes legit good films and his reviews are great because it comes from a knowledge of experience.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

I honestly still like NC and will continue to watch his videos.

Not too surprising that you be dumb enough to buy their "Our Response" page. Many other KZreadrs who covered the #changethechannel controversy even seen that CA's rebuttals are totally full of bullcrap. Either they give out-of-context evidence that actually more backs up the former producer's claims or just completely ignored the main problems they have.

@DancingwithGhosts

4 жыл бұрын

you're commenting on a 2 year old video of a controversy that no one cares about anymore.. tell me who the dumb one is again?

@TylerRakstis

4 жыл бұрын

@@DancingwithGhosts Well some of us still care, and it doesn't help that people like you had to throw it away when justice wasn't even served.

They will come to you if you have talent unless you are a woman. I mean a woman on that site should not be allowed to have a mid-roll ad to makes ends meat. A woman should not have a patreon. When the site came out they had no other place to go. You clearly only read a few parts of the story, came to conclusions and have no idea what you are talking about.

@DancingwithGhosts

6 жыл бұрын

and you have no idea how to spell-check.. we all have our flaws

@evelynbasham1673

6 жыл бұрын

Oh, @DancingwithGhosts, you noted my typo. I guess that makes my point entirely invalid. You win. How ever shall I recover from the wound of someone pointing out I misspelled "patreon." Thank you for pointing it out I shall go correct my comment now. Resorting to insults shows lack of a sound argument. At least I can admit and easily correct my mistakes.

@nocturnalrecluse1216

6 жыл бұрын

Evelyn Basham+ What are you talking about?

@evelynbasham1673

6 жыл бұрын

@ Nocturnal Recluse, I am merely alluding to what was said in the document.

@evelynbasham1673

6 жыл бұрын

@gingersleep I hope you are never put in a situation like these women. You have no idea how lonely it is. The fear that no one will listen because the people who have harmed you are so beloved. The fear that you will lose your livelihood if you speak. Oh, and by the way, Allison Pregler spoke about this for years but no one listened to her and she did lose her job mainly because she fought back. Kaylyn Saucedo spoke about all of this last September when she left the site knowing she could finally survive without it. Here is the interview where she discussed the issues she had with Channel Awesome. kzread.info/dash/bejne/eJWr1bqse8ace5c.html They aren't just speaking all of a sudden. People are just finally listening to them. Don't start victim blaming until you know the whole story. I'm all for hearing both sides, but CA has not represented themselves well in all of this.

Jeez. Talk about jumping on the band wagon. So you want to attack critics for ripping apart other people’s art....but that is exactly what you are doing here. The entire CA mess, the complaints are justified but you are complaining about something you seem to know very little about.

@Nelcomarproductions

6 жыл бұрын

its about personal responsibility. Something you might have missed

I'd like to take issue with your childish take on critics. Mostly because... well... it's an opinion that usually only comes from terrible artists or people under the age of 16 who have no idea what they're talking about. 1. It's easy to spot shitty paintings, shitty music, shitty movies, etcetera. Why? Because you can point to evidence for your opinion and break it down with logic. Anyone can be a critic, not many can be very good critics (these are generally people who don't let their feelings get in the way of their job). 2. When a critic does try to go into these fields, they are rank amateurs at the time. I find the phrase, "Oh yeah, you do better!" as a childish one in which you admit your own stuff is shit, but you demand people who point it out to make better shit than your shit. Basically, it's a petulant child stomping their feet and whining until they get their way. There's no way I could make a hit song... at least not without using the four chords progression, but I'm not silly enough to try. Plus, I don't need any musical knowledge to know if a song sounds like ear-rape or like corporately manufactured drivel designed to sell well. 3. Critics usually only attempt that shit, if they didn't want to be critics to begin with. With Channel Awesome, this is obvious. Nearly everyone on the site wanted to be an actor/actress. Doug still does. It's obvious they can't direct movies at all. They put little effort into the making of the movie, because they're trying to show off their "acting talent", of which most don't have. These movies are basically like a demo reel in which they're trying to showcase their acting chops and cater to their fans instead of make something series and entertaining. So should critics ever get into art? A lot do. In fact, there's a lot of bands out there that criticize other music, and they make good music themselves. Ever see how much shit "Smoke On The Water" gets from most other bands? Or Four Chords music gets? Critics exist for a reason. To help you hone your craft. To help consumers make intelligent decisions on spending money so you silly fucks with arts don't rip them off with good PR and Advertising. I don't understand your childish dislike/hatred of criticism and the "yeah, well YOU DO BETTER THEN!" attitude towards them. I can only assume your artistic craft sucks and you hold this opinion because you operate under the delusion that it doesn't. And all of this... is coming from someone who isn't a critic at all. I'm a writer. I value critics and critique. Because it's USEFUL information and feedback.

The point u make about movie critics tearing down all these movies then when ther in the driving seat they fail miserably absolutely needs to be said. Cheers man