Yikes... Is it me, or are these two getting more grumpy as the years go on?

@magicianshobby

2 ай бұрын

They own the product and have been repeatedly lied to by the company. Rivian has completely dropped the ball. Z and J have reason to be salty.

@zachgordon3125

2 ай бұрын

Yea, this is one of the worst videos I’ve seen them make. Their bad Rivian experience and Tesla fanboyness completely blinded them

@magicianshobby

2 ай бұрын

@@zachgordon3125 did they say ANYTHING that was untrue? No. Cope harder.

@zachgordon3125

2 ай бұрын

@@magicianshobby yes they did. Saying the vehicle was designed before the R1 and running with that assumption for every assertion they make is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. What, do you think they have been sitting on their hands for 3/4 years and not working on the R2? It’s so stupid I can’t believe I’m typing it. Other than the design/aesthetic designed before the R1, it’s an entirely new platform

@val6764

Ай бұрын

Your right, must be Tesla's constantly decreasing stock prices triggering them. I just don't understand how they hate on every EV company that isn't Tesla.

The Tesla Bro is strong with these ones lol

If they produce the R2 at capacity it will sell well, not everyone likes the low rear roof line Y nor do we all need 0-60 in 0 secs.

I have watched you for years, but this video was really obnoxious. You keep forgetting that there is a huge market out there, and the more choices the better. Rivian is not strangled like all the legacy OEMs with their debt and sunk cost of ICE manufacturing. FYI, I own both a Tesla and a Rivian.

@ismailnyeyusof3520

2 ай бұрын

Obnoxious? This was a great analysis of the stark, stone cold, reality that faces Rivian right now. No punches pulled, the bare facts, but with full appreciation of everything Rivian has done. Personally I believe Rivian is a genuine, ongoing business that is still in the growth stage, but it's in a tough and unforgiving market. If the real world is obnoxious, them's the breaks, but Zac and Jesse are really being extremely kind in creating this video to explore the Rivian story.

@thedimensionsphotography7992

2 ай бұрын

Their reasoning lacks reason. It's mostly opinionated commentary and borderline whining with so many issues - I wouldn't know where to begin to form a response.

@zachgordon3125

2 ай бұрын

Cannot agree more. I’ve watched them for years but I would be embarrassed to put out this video. The point about R2 being “designed before the R1” is so off base and preposterous I can’t even believe it came out of Zac’s mouth, and be doubled down with assumptions based on that “fact”

@didiermejia780

2 ай бұрын

Yep. They sound like Tesla fanboys

@eddiestevenson-kaatsch6306

Ай бұрын

This has zero to do with feelings, and everything to do with statistics and data. A business plan has to be viable, or that business will go under no matter how fantastic the product is. Look at other great household brands that have simply vanished from our lives. There have been an awful lot of them. Building such high investment loaded products like mass produced cars is incredibly difficult to achieve. Musk has managed it, but he is something of a one-off in everything he touches, a once in a century kind of individual.

To be fair, this video excludes the very real possibility that Rivian’s move to showcase these two upcoming lower cost vehicles is smart because if they need to do a capital raise by issuing stock they’re likely to get much better terms with these vehicles in the pipeline. I’m a day one Tesla investor and I would like to see Rivian succeed in carving out their own path. The car market is huge and Rivian would be a good long term player once they can overcome these hurdles. Also, keep in mind it took Tesla more than a decade to achieve profitability (they only did it in 2020) and Rivian’s being asked to do it in 3-5 years. So additional capital raises are a prudent play as long as they can demonstrate they’re being efficient with the capital they already have, which is the point of the layoffs and delaying the factory in Georgia.

@eddiestevenson-kaatsch6306

Ай бұрын

Blithely put, optimistic, and yet unrealistic.

I think you guys are being a little too negative to Rivian. They are following the Tesla playbook very well. The price point of the R2 will allow a great deal more to be sold, this will allow them to negotiate with their supplies for more favorable COGS which will lead them into the profit zone. Exactly what Tesla did when they went from S & X to 3 and then to the Y. There is no guarantee it will work out of course but I think the fact that the R2 is close to the R1 is a net benefit. People with cash will still go R1 so they can brag they have an R1. People that don't have the cash for R1 or are even stretching to the R2 will line up in droves. Just like the Model 3 when it was 50K. Also unlike the legacy (which don't want to leave ICE or companies like Fisker which don't build their own cars) Rivian is building their own cars and can move to more vertical integration. They still need to negotiate the base materials they would use to integrate production. It's not like Tesla is smelting their own Aluminum. If Rivian is on the Tesla Supercharger network that is just another win. I don't know about MA but here in the Princeton area of NJ Teslas are everywhere. Many will want something different. Finally RJ is not tweeting daily/weekly his political bend/whim and turning off large sections of the buying public. I say this as someone who owns three Teslas. I think Elon has done great things, will continue to do great things but his tweets and replies to conspiracy nuts and far-right wings loons is not a great look. I dislike the Dems and hate the GOP. I am always looking for a new party to vote for so you know where I am coming from. I wish Elon could overcome his social media addiction.

No doubt Rivian will have its challenges over the next two years. But I for one will be switching from Tesla model 3 to the R2 in a heartbeat as soon as they hit the market. I was waiting for Rivian to drop into the $50s-$60sK range and looks like they will do just that. I think they will sell a ton of R2s and R3s.

@MicahJordan

2 ай бұрын

Same here, my Fiancée will leave her Model Y for the R2 and I will leave my M3P for the R3X. Both these cars have me so excited

Unbelievable........Haters will keep Hating......Keep it up.

You guys are significantly mis characterizing everything in this video. The point about the vehicle being designed before the R1, and that even mattering, is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever l heard. The design of the exterior and general aesthetic may have been, but it’s clear that nothing else about the R2 is the same as the R1 platform. From the battery to the steering wheel to the software (it’s an entirely new ui they had in the demo cars). Honestly I’d take this video down, it’s kind’ve embarrassingly Tesla fanboy

4th quarter 1.52 bil divided by 13972 delivered. 108k loss per car

You need to get all facts straight . Yes Rivian lost 43000 Q4 23 but Q4 22 it was roughly 120000 .. reduction of roughly 80000 . In just 9 month they said they will reduce the rest 43000 to 0 . I believe they will achieve that .how was well explained by RJ S. But would take to long here to explain . And! By the way the increase of 12000 from Q3 to Q4 in 23 was only due to less EDV sales to Amazon because of their holiday Prime time business . Q1 24 those sales will show

They just announced contract Morgan Olson. That could be good.

These 2 just sound like Elon and Tesla fan boys as the years go on

I've been watching you guys for several years and this is your first video that made me say WTF?! This video sounds exactly like the FUD we all heard during the Model 3 ramp. Tesla wasn't profitable before M3 was ramped, so why do you expect Rivian to be profitable already from their first Gen vehicles?

It actually grew from q3 to q4 it means they lost more per car than in q3. Tesla had only quarter in history with negative gross Margin the quarter they launched the model s

Honestly, I was stunned when they said H1, 2026. For Rivian to survive as and independent enterprise, I really think they need to be able to start delivering the R2 by H1, 2025. As you said, they've had this design plan since the beginning, so why are they still 2 years (best case) away from starting deliveries. I guess they were hoping the R1 would generate cash-flow to fund the R2. At any rate, it seems like too little, too late to me. Maybe the announcement will boost the stock enough that they can raise another $10B. But the bump they got after the announcement has already faded, so that's not looking good. Assuming the R1 and R2 can be made profitable, I think the Rivian brand or at least platform survives, as a buyout. GM should probably buy them and add the Rivian make to their lineup, but I don't think they have the cash. At an $11B market cap, Apple could easily buy them at a 50% premium and rebrand as the Apple car. Maybe enticing a buyer was the intent of the announcement all along.

They Osborned themselves to some degree.

Missed oppotunity to not call the R3 the D2...

Rivian will succeed, The Highlander PS kindness is always free.😊

I wish Disruptive would talk about why we don't have chinese ev's in America yet? I've heard it's about the inflation reduction act, as they don't qualify. But they are so cheap that it shouldn't matter? Is it because they don't meet safety standards? Companies like Rivian would really be in trouble if BYD etc. were to come over!

I love Tesla and we love our (my wife’s) model Y but I would take the R2 over the Y in a heartbeat based on it being more of an actual SUV .coming from being a Jeep fan for years the model Y offers little of that lifestyle type of vehicle, the Rivian does. In fact my wife has pre ordered an R2 and intends on trading in the Y as long as Rivian can deliver. I can not speak to Rivians ability to get through the next few quarters and get R2 into production and hopefully get it to profitability but if they can they will have absolutely zero problems selling them

@fpartidafpartida

Ай бұрын

You nailed it with this comment. I have a good friend that has NEVER purchased a brand new car. Always drove old (reliable) pick up trucks/jeeps to go hunting and fishing in. He just texted me a screenshot of his R2 pre-order. I also have neighbors who “don’t like electric” (I’m pretty sure they just don’t like Tesla and didn’t want to make me feel bad for owning one) but also pre-ordered the R2. I have to imagine there will be quite a few Model Y trade-ins happening for these.

These two are way too Tesla bias. It’s like saying who would buy a jeep when you can get a Subaru for the same price. Makes no sense. Tesla is like the Toyota of Corolla of EVs which isn’t bad but you don’t necessarily want one you just get it because it’s cheap

Rivian is truly making waves in the EV market! Their focus on providing a high-end experience is evident, and it's no surprise they're attracting customers even from Tesla's base. While Tesla excels in efficiency and supercharger network, Rivian offers a premium experience that resonates with those seeking luxury. At over 80k price points, efficiency takes a backseat to the overall experience, making Rivian a compelling choice. It's exciting to see the competition heating up in the EV space.

@cory_aqua

2 ай бұрын

Agree model Y door shutting sounds cheap.

@LMSTechEd

2 ай бұрын

You are now the purveyors of FUD

Who designed the r3???

Something missed is that Yes they have a NAG'S connector, BUT it's on the WRONG SIDE. This will mean that just like for Mustang and Lightning it will have TOO USE TWO CHARGING stalls too charge. This will make fir problems at the chargers with Teslas waiting to charge and there is available spots accordingly to the Tesla app but will have them blocked by other manufacturers vehicles. Tesla drivers will be upset with that. There needs to be a condition on the use of Teslas chargers that all vehicles MUST HAVE CHARGER ON THE LEFT SIDE REAR.

@fpartidafpartida

Ай бұрын

Rivian plans to sell a lot of these in Europe, where most people don’t have garages. They use mostly street chargers. The port is located to accommodate them for the majority of of their use. Here in the US, road trips are about 6% of use case, most of the time they would charge at home and only be inconvenient every now and them. Tesla already announced they will be upgrading to longer handles, so it won’t be an inconvenience here for too long either.

Very nice analysis of challenges for Rivian and the R2--- also the Project Juniper refreshed Model Y and Model 2 will be coming by the time R2 starts getting delivered!🎉

The rivian R2 is definitely at the top of my list for 2026. i have a model Y currently and couldnt get rid of it soon enough

7:31 they never gave a price for the R3. But that sounds about right.

These guys sound like Tesla haters of old🤥 so much for saving the planet 🌍🤔who needs legacy oil 🛢 when you have these guys🤡🤡✔️😅😅🤣🤣😂😵

A friend talked about buying shares before the R2 comes out just like buying the Tesla shares before the 3 came out. I told him it is not the same thing and I will not believe it until I see it as far as 2026. Tesla was very close to bankrupt during the 3 launch. I HOPE Rivian can pull it off but it is by no means a guarantee.

@fpartidafpartida

Ай бұрын

Your friend will make good money. If you wait, like you say, “until you see it” it will be too late. You have to buy ahead of time, not after they are successful.

🚨well if they only have $10B and the factory extension will be $5B then they will only have $5 and its not the current Model Y but the new Jupiter and now Tesla can make it even better than the R2 now that they know what Rivian aim to deliver with the R2 🤷🏼‍♂ and before the R3 will come there will be Tesla's next model for probably under 25k. The vans are sitting at the Factory because Amazon wants to swop there whole fleet at the same time and not as they come of the production line

Rivian has to survive long enough for R2 to turn a profit. Can they do it?

This two guys are so Rivian haters, and don't remember the past, that Tesla when to similar path at the beginning producing one model car every year. Rivian is doing three models at the same time. Don't be so harsh with the company give them time and we'll see.

Stop thinking of Tesla and Rivian as competitors guys...I disagree that the R2 will go head to head with the Model Y. They are two different form factors and appeal to different audiences. Case in point, my neighbor has a Model 3 and put down a reservation on the R2 instead of just trading it in for a Model Y. He is planning on keeping both. I have had a 3, Y, and R1T, and driven an R1S, and Rivians are in a different category in terms of quality and usability for people with more active lifestyles. Not everyone needs autonomy and now that we can use the Tesla Superchargers that moat is gone--very generous of tesla BTW. I hope they both succeed.

No one is ever going to take Y camping or off roading.

@fpartidafpartida

Ай бұрын

Some KZreadrs have, but frankly it looked pretty awkward. The R2 will look right at home doing it.

Fisker will bail them out😂

Dude ... Rivian is a bit smarter than your average joe ... They founded a company that has one of the best products out there. So, how many years was Tesla unprofitable? And the other aspect of this is that the 43k per car loss factors in the cost of a 5 billion dollar plant AND product development costs ... SO, when they said they would be profitable by the end of the year ... does that mean they will not be losing money anymore??? I would guess that is what than means ... but that is going unnoticed .... WOW, do your homework ... Tesla lovers can't like anyone other than Elon ... when are you having his next baby???!!

Don't nobody give AF about a Telsa that's yall that still care about that

Excellent analysis. My thoughts exactly.

The Tesla fanboy-ism is obvious and irrational. The reason the Model Y s the best selling vehicle is for 2 reasons. 1) It’s a good vehicle and a good value 2) The Rivian R2 doesn’t exist yet. And #2 is really representative of any kind of competitor that offers families a cool/affordable family friendly option. But specifically, the R2 will offer more headroom in the back, a 4-runner style glass back and it’s just a more family friendly brand that people would want to be seen in. Especially with personalities of who heads the companies.

Great video agree on all points. I think they'll try to raise cash soon, I think that was the point of that event was to pump the stock to be able to raise a few billion in the hopes that is enough to keep going. I really can't see it either, the auto business is brutal.

@4literv6

2 ай бұрын

Hard to believe per Forbes they've burned up $19,000,000,000 now since 2019 SMDH. Ad in debt and subtract the planned GA plant and they are already flat broke! 😀

"North American Self Driving Standard", in other words, Tesla will licence their tech to other manufacturers. Elon wants EVs to take over. He knows he can't do it all on his own, he's said so. His technology is 'portable', however, and could form an ongoing revenue stream that'll end up having paid for itself, while all this time Tesla will have marched on ahead.

Bought by Amazon, Bought by BYD, Bought by apple.

😂 is this a troll show ?

Tesla fan boys. Just sad sounds like they are routing against every thing not tesla.

I can't believe you just cited Elon as your source...you guys are really loosing sight of the shore. These guys think that you have to beat Tesla or you can't survive, but you also have to go through everything that Tesla did To survive. You guys are such nay sayers to legacy auto AND anyone who tries. You should try to look up from Elons lap from time-to-time.

@henriques.9644

2 ай бұрын

yeah, they uses the competitor's words . what a joke

This statement is incorrect and unfair. Firstly, the math is not as straightforward as suggesting a loss of 43k per vehicle; it's clear that this figure is being misused to inaccurately portray that selling more would increase the loss. Additionally, the R2 is not equivalent to Tesla's Model 3 but to the Model Y; the Model 3's counterpart will be the R3. This will be my first and last time viewing this channel. It's evident that it caters to Tesla enthusiasts who form their opinions solely on Elon Musk's viewpoints, despite him being proven wrong two years ago. It's apparent that Musk's comments are influenced by the growing number of people recognizing Tesla's quality issues and switching to Rivian. Continue supporting blindly, fanboys. I'll consider returning here after three years.

@td4940

2 ай бұрын

Yes, I found their whole thesis flawed and bias. The biggest thing Rivian can do is pull in the R2 to end of 2025. I have reservation for R2 and I would want the R3X over M3 any day, which I plan to do. I think Rivian survival is more important than GM.

@timber741

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely I am with you

@4literv6

2 ай бұрын

Bye Felicia! 😀👍🏻

Every time someone likes my comment and it pops up, I feel embarrassed by the behavior of two grown men acting like that.

That's why they're doing the kitchen thingy for the tunnel isn't it? Because it's $6,000 and will cost about $300 to make? It's their version of being able to sell FSD when it works. ;)

@jonevansauthor

2 ай бұрын

Rivian don't need to make their FSD work, they just need to make their vehicle profitably, and install Tesla FSD. Elon isn't planning to build all the vehicles, he's fine with 'competition' so once he's got it, he'll let some companies resell it. So all you need is enough hardware to run it. Easy.

I've just been reading earlier contributors grumbling about your analysis, guys. I'm not sure they have got the hang of the difference between Disney Wishes, and cruel reality. I agree (and hate myself for doing so), in that the numbers don't add up for Rivian. They're running on hope now. Hope they can borrow even more giant loans to keep the ball rolling. Even if they managed that herculean challenge, the on-going interest, plus the requirement to repay the debt within a serviceable timeline (without being taken over, or going bankrupt), as well as continuing to create the next, and the next, and the next generation of vehicle... plus tooling and factory space with employee's wages. I'm unable to see a route through that mine-field that doesn't end in one disaster or another.

Why are cybertrucks sitting at the factory and being delivered... Are you really oblivious to your tesla colored glasses you have on?

@mcsike7264

2 ай бұрын

Thats how tesla do things yhe build them up and once they reatch a good amount they ship em

@user-yn5sk5ru5g

2 ай бұрын

​@@mcsike7264missing the point

Rivian could pivot to work vehicles. Maybe they can be profitable there. They really need to be vertically integrated to compete with Tesla. Fortunately for them, Tesla isn’t in the work vehicle market… yet.

Seems like with the R3 they are Osborne-ing their R2 that hasn’t even come out yet.

@flakes369

2 ай бұрын

They're literally in two different product categories?

@Matt-Ionman

2 ай бұрын

Disagree. Two totally different vehicles. R3 reveal was smart cus it brought some excitement and exposure to the company. The R2 is going to carry the company.

RIVN - bankruptcy

If you guys don't understand how much this is going to cannibalize Model Y sales, you're delusional. I know I'm just 1 person, but I was about to trade my Model 3 for a Y (even though I don't really want one) because I need the space and it's the only option. The R2 is now the second option.

Bye bye Rivian.

r3 looks like a Toyota mistake oversize tires and rj Is well never mind and you two are great thanks oh yea why didn't rj get in the r3 was he to tall for his own product

I’ve been a Tesla champion for about a decade and have been watching your channels for about 7 years. This video was the most frustrating and annoying video I’ve seen. You were wiping away all of Teslas financial difficulties in the early years and now you scoff at Rivian as if they shouldn’t even be trying. I put down a $100 deposit and may indeed end up getting one over a Model Y come 2026.

You are jaded Tesla fanboys

I think Rivian’s reveal was a pitch to investors in a bid to survive.

Do you guys even hear yourselves. You have lost credibility with how you give your condescending bias "News". You are totally covering over the fact that Rivian sells more R1T's and R1S's then Tesla sells Models S and X in the USA. This is a problem for Tesla because Rivian is going to have a high likelihood of selling more R2's than Model Y's. Hmmm do I buy the vehicle everyone and their brother has or do I buy this new looking vehicle from this company just like Tesla? Let that roll around in your brain for a bit. Oh and BTW I own a Tesla Model 3 and as soon as this R2 is available the Tesla will be sold and the R2 will be bought and so this is a source of the data you will begin to see of Tesla owners moving to Rivian. And you will pass it off as oh im an edge case and then one QTR you will begin to realize hmm this is a problem. Remember the Mr Market will know before you so you better see the data first. Just a little more data for you, 40% of Rivian R2 reservation holders are current or previous Tesla owners so there is that as well...

@adamgrundy4327

2 ай бұрын

people in America tend to like trucks more. Also they are right with the price goes up to 50k and doesn't qualify for the tax credit a lot less people will buy it and they need a lot of profitability to 1 survive and 2 to push out the R3. Which hopefully will bring even more sales I hope they survive because they are the only good lucking vehicle other than tesla.

@4literv6

2 ай бұрын

Model 3 highland just dropped in the U.S, the ludicrous perf edition m3 specs leaked 600+hp, perf seats, new appearance parts&brakes etc, the model Y juniper refresh coming later this year possibly with lmfp or m3p pack's outside the U.S should keep 3&Y dominate for years yet! 😎 V4s should get updated to 350kws very soon at 800+v charging, the ct already did nearly 100 miles back in just 8mins at 327kws on a 3rd party 350kw 800v charger. Rivian has suffered drop off in r1 sales since the r1s dropped and the ct started sales. Like how you ignored that FACT! So I think tesla will be just fine look at that war chest it's more BILLIONS in the bank earning interest÷nds for tesla who is debt free than rivian has even raised and consequently burned already. But not by much per Forbes rivian has made over $19,000,000,000 disappear just since 2019. Should hit 25 bill burned by the end of 2024. Enjoy that r2 buddy It'll be the most expensive ev ever made per car if rivian even survives to see production startup. I noticed they are asking Illinois for a new incentive package. And my state Georgia is already considering clawing back some of the incentives given to them. 😂👍🏻

@darinbrazil5496

2 ай бұрын

@@4literv6 Maybe you misunderstand I am not ignoring facts I simply stated a fact that R1T/S out sold S/X in the USA in 2023, Are you contending that fact or are you wanting to add to that fact? Also I never said Tesla wouldn't survive unlike your buddies that are really professing that Rivian will not survive and neglecting the fact that Rivian's business model mirrors Tesla and in fact they are getting to the metrics Tesla was at in an accelerated pace. How many billions did Tesla make disappear before they showed a profit, do you know the answer to that question or do you ignore the fact that they "lost" billions as well before profitability. Are you really bringing up incentive packages as if Tesla didn't receive incentive packages for their Factories, I mean seriously what is wrong with you guys and your tunnel vision. Im not a Tesla hater but I also don't have tunnel vision.

@darinbrazil5496

2 ай бұрын

@@adamgrundy4327 I think you give these guys too much credit, the R2 vehicle is an SUV so as long as its under 80K it will qualify for the tax credit and this entire vehicle has been developed and designed around qualifying for the tax credit and they have already stated multiple times that it will receive the entire $7,500 credit. Yes absolutely there will be more expensive variants just as there are more expensive Model Y variants, however the R2 starting price for rear wheel drive and 270 miles of range is $45,000 minus $7,500 is $37,500 not including state incentives which brings the price even lower. That is a compelling price for such a capable and utility vehicle.

@4literv6

2 ай бұрын

@@darinbrazil5496 simple fact for you, tesla in total has raised right at $20,000,000,000 across ALL funding rounds. They have almost $29,000,000,000 in the bank last earnings call with no significant remaining debt. Another fact in their worst year already operating 2 plants in freemont&sparks Nevada and building out N.Y. they burned less than half of rivians 2023 cash burn in the worst year just over $2,000,000,000 burned for tesla vs so far over $5,400,000,000 for rivian. Get it yet? 😀 By then tesla had made the roadster, model s&X plus updated the s already and introduced the model 3, along with starting solar panel sales, inverter sales and the solar roof tile programs, plus they made grid scale powerpacks for bess systems and home powerwalls, plus had several thousand scers opened up globally. What's rivian done just for direct comparison? NO comparison imo exists between them. Not to mention current head counts for tsla vs rvn are almost 10x more tesla employees. Rivian still has the one plant with 3 product's on sale and not ramping in 2024 at ALL vs 2023 sales. I call it like I see it! 👍🏻

Content aside, you guys are getting less professional, and snarkier with each passing week!

Talking about the inevitable Bankruptcy of Rivian would make anyone grumpy. -43,000 margin per unit. The only people that like Rivian stock are those people that can't do math.

@zachgordon3125

2 ай бұрын

Hurr durr FUD you sound like a TSLA short short circa 2017

Video is cringe af, tesla fanbois at its best

While I agree with your assessments. I would prefer that you spoke in a more professional manner, seems a little low class.

@henriques.9644

2 ай бұрын

100% agreed. Completely parcial and opportunistic.

I like the Rivian R2S, but I wouldn't buy one because the future of the company is doubtful. Rivian is struggling like Tesla did to be profitable, but the BIG difference is Tesla did it during low interest rates and easy money lending, now we have high interest rates and very tight lending and investors looking to put money into AI stocks not EV stocks. The cards are stacked against them and that is a gamble I'm not willing to take!