I think I will never really take a permanent stance on this issues. Some days I lean more toward some mysterious free will that we have to be saved some days I lean more toward Calvinist but the bottom line it doesn’t matter to me because your stance on this doesn’t save you. I know that I and no one else deserves to be saved from eternal condemnation. I’m just grateful that Jesus had mercy on me and that he died on the cross for me and that is the ultimate act of love. He is good and i trust Him. I trust I will never fully understand Him as long as I’m in this part of the world. If anyone is grappling with these issues i pray for you to come to terms that you will never ever fully understand the mind of God and that you be at peace with that.

@j-life8502

4 жыл бұрын

Beautiful testimony and thank you you are right, he is all together lovely and other , we dont deserve salvation period, and yet he saved someone like me like you! Praise God he is enough we dont have to know everything.

@westannex1655

3 жыл бұрын

not a really smart idea way to think. if a non believer in your household hears that the calvinistic way it'll make him less open to beliefe in christianity. The apostle paul would disagree with your attitude.

@jasonbourne5142

3 жыл бұрын

@@westannex1655 agreed

@KM-zn3lx

3 жыл бұрын

Ruby...I hope you see my heartfelt thanks sister in Christ! God bless you!

@shaneteel3815

3 жыл бұрын

Love that....wonderfully put

I love it when we can simply admit we don't understand everything.

"I think it gives God glory to just let the text teach what the Scripture teaches." Thank you!

@Faith_First001

Жыл бұрын

But God commands us to teach the scriptures

@nicholascarter6543

Жыл бұрын

@@Faith_First001 by “living it” we will be “teaching it.” ✝️🙏🙏

@tstjohn777

Жыл бұрын

​@deisel1016 True, but we who don't teach must be stewards of the word and be found faithful through discernment to the who do teach it. 2 Tim. 2:15 Otherwise, we fall for teaching that only please our ichy ears. 2 Tim. 4:3

@44:25 .. "These are NOT dividing issues..." The best 5 words in the whole of the video... God bless you Ptr Mike!! ❤🙂

I'm so happy the KZread algorithm planted this as a recommendation. Praise Jesus ✝

This makes so much sense! I thought I was saved and a Christian most of my life, first as a Jehovah's Witness and later as a New Thought adherent, and I had visited Christian churches and said the sinner's prayer, and even cried one time at a church service, vocally accepting Him. Nothing. Then one day, while at a new age music conference, after I had lost my voice for six days, in my desperation I truly called out in my thoughts (for I had no voice!) to Jesus, and vowed that if He brought my voice back, I would sing His praises every day. I forgave everyone who had wronged me. I asked sincerely for Him to forgive my sins and I gave my life to Him. BOOM. It happened. I was born again. I felt my sins, for the first time literally lift off my body. I felt cleansed of all my iniquity. Then over the next few weeks, He opened my eyes to sin as the scales fell off. I was in utter shock! It was both beautiful and terrible at the same time. But of course, it's the best thing that ever happened to me! I had been adopted as a child of God into His Kingdom! Praise God!

@vadinandez

4 жыл бұрын

@Crim Sin yes. Yes, I am a funny girl. But I am a saved funny girl.🤗

@vadinandez

4 жыл бұрын

@Crim Sin Also, I kind of had to condense my story. In retrospect, it was lack of Biblical knowledge at the time, being steeped in new age teachings. I made the funny "bargain" the week before I was born again. The following week was when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. But I never forgot. I love singing His praises every day. Be blessed, brother.

@davidfrench1868

4 жыл бұрын

Valerie Campbel

@homer3ja425

4 жыл бұрын

Valerie Campbell GOD bless you!

@rob5462

4 жыл бұрын

@@vadinandez Just a small correction of theology You came into God's kingdom and became His child by being 'Born Again' John 3 (look up other Biblical references to regeneration and new birth). However. adoption referrers, not to becoming a child of God but to the time of our resurrection Romans 8:28. In Galatians 4 you will find in New Testament times it was the practice for a father to adopt his own natural son when he reached maturity. At this time he would start to share family or business responsibility. This is what our adoption will be about when we are conformed to the image of Christ we will be ready to be involved with our saviour in the administration of the age to come Ephesians 1:10. Many Christians are unaware of this as they are unfamiliar of this process of adoption practised in NT times. So glad to hear you found your way out of JWs.

Thank you Pastor Mike for this very clear presentation of what I believe. I once attended a church where the Pastor was a hard core extreme Calvanist. That would have been ok except that he kept hammering, hammering, hammering most every week,, anyone who dared to believe differently. He also misrepresented what I believe like saying that people who think they had a choice in their salvation, just want to receive some credit for their salvation. As you pointed out, this is totally not true. Jesus did all the work and deserves all the credit. The Calvanist's say their view should give Christians peace. It did just the opposite to me. At that time, I was convinced that I was one of the "chosen" to be forever lost. The final straw was when i was waiting in line to talk with the pastor one week. I heard him "quote" 2 Peter 3:9 to the woman in front of me. He said, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any," and then he inserted the following 3 words; "of his people " then; "should perish but that all should come to repentance." Does he feel the Bible needs him to add words to make the meaning clear? It was at this point that I decided it was time for me to move on to another church.

@alanlietzke5738

4 ай бұрын

FYI: 2Pet 3:9 has been mistranslated in two ways by KJV (primarily Arminian) translators: 1) "τινας" a Greek plural indefinite pronoun is used twice in this verse. It is rendered properly as, "some", for its first usage, but inexplicably rendered as singular indefinite, "any", in it second instance. 2) "βουλόμενός" (planning/intending/resolving) was rendered as "willing" This as resulted in conundrum: either everyone will be saved or God's will is thwarted Subsequent Arminian translations have attempted to "fix" this conundrum, by changing "willing" to "wanting" or "wishing", in order to maintain a universal possibility for universal salvation. The literal Greek text reads, "....not intending/planning some to perish....", which is "dripping" with Calvinist doctrines (a frequent characteristic of the Greek text, which is usually misleadingly translated by Arminian-biased translators, because much of the Greek text makes no sense to a, "Free-Will" believer, because it is dripping with the absolute sovereignty of God in all things, from who might believe, might confess (Rom 10:9), or who "might call upon the name of the LORD" (Rom 10:13), wherein Arminian translators often render Greek (God controlled) subjunctives as English (man-controlled) indicatives. The Arminian doctrine of "Free-Will" is inconsistent with an absolute sovereign God who will not share His glory with another (Is 42:8), particularly defiled sinners like us.

@zyclaw503

2 ай бұрын

@@alanlietzke5738 so, would you agree that if the original text means "some" that to translate that as "any of his people" is also an interpolation and a change to what scripture literally says at face value?

@alanlietzke5738

2 ай бұрын

While translating from one language to another, arbitrarily changing the number, case, or gender of nouns, pronouns, adjectives and participles, will often alter the intended meaning. The same applies to changing the tense, voice or mood of verbs. Moreover, deleted and inserted words should be avoided, or whenever used, should be clearly indicated, so that the reader can decide for themselves, if the "improvements" of the translator are consistent with the larger context, ESPECIALLY, with the Word of God, where each jot and tittle is never accidental. When variations in copies exist, the variation with the high chance of having been corrected is probably closest to the original.

I know I can't be saved unless I'm chosen and called and I know I can't be saved unless I'm willing to repent and believe. It is all of God so that He gets all of the glory.

@paultrosclair1775

2 жыл бұрын

Then you don't know what "chosen and called" refers to.

@theepicenter4106

2 жыл бұрын

I believe everyone is "called."

@jeffnorton9875

2 жыл бұрын

@@theepicenter4106 well all that are drawn will be raised, and all that are called will be conformed to the image of His son. So does that also mean you believe everyone is raised, and that everyone is conformed to the image of His son? So everyone is save.... John 6:44 Rom 8:29

@theepicenter4106

2 жыл бұрын

@@jeffnorton9875 i must admit im glad i said then only that "i believe." Meaning i wasnt sure. Because now, after much praying and Bible study, i am sure that NOT everyone is called and here's what it means... - God wants everyone to repent. 2 Peter 3:9 - Not everyone will repent. - God knows the future and knows who will repent. - He "calls" (or makes a path to Him) only for those whom He knows will repent.

@jeffnorton9875

2 жыл бұрын

@@theepicenter4106 Id be a careful with that. There is a one problem. The idea that God looks through time or sees into the future to see who will choose him and then makes his election based off of that means that God is acquiring information to base his decision and an all knowing God cannot learn. . "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you" John 15:16 Ephesians 1:4-5 Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will. HE didn't predestine us if that is what he saw was going to happen anyway by OUR decision. It was according to HIS will for us to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ. It gets weird when you say his will, adoption, and predestining was determined by mans decision because then you also have a problem with God no longer being omnipotent.

The best video for my struggles ... man pastors I gave read over 120 books on God, doctrine and history read Scripture cover to cover 15 times different translations and HAVE to say you are the best teacher w/o a doubt thank you and God bless you.

Such a good video! So grateful to learn from fellow Christian KZreadrs who are so much more knowledgeable than I am. Free Will, sovereignty, election, and predestination all existing side by side - refreshing to see!

@nim831

Жыл бұрын

I just discovered your channel recently! Love the videos, keep sharing the good news! God bless.

@tstjohn777

Жыл бұрын

Free Will. Really? Give me passages in context that say we have Free Will when it comes to being regenerated or saved. There are NONE who seek God, no not one. Rom.3:10-17 John 6:44

@teeemm9456

4 ай бұрын

@@tstjohn777 You're conflating free will with following clues. Free will does not mean that God doesn't have ultimate authority nor does it mean that God has no influence, nor does it mean that God cannot make exceptions when we stubborn humans are overly blind. It literally took divine intervention for Paul to come to Christ, but that does not mean God forced Paul to accept Jesus, it just means that he was supplied with undeniable evidence as part of God's calling. If there is no real free will, then there is no point in creation being what it is. God could have a lot less unnecessary issues and problems with humanity if we're just robotic bags of meat. Isaiah 55 6-7 Galatians 5 13-17

@tstjohn777

4 ай бұрын

@teeemm9456 , no, I'm not conflating. @teeemm9456 not robots, just humans with a genetic predisposition to be and act a certain way. That's why Saul responded the way he did, even David, Joseph and his brothers, and Pharoah, to name a few. Everything is for God's glory and to reveal He is Potentate and nothing man can do to trawrt it. Rom 9:17, even the context of this chapter clearly shows everything is what "GOD" is doing As to you quoted verse. As I say to everyone who refutes truth. Context is everything. In the Isa. quote, if you would have continued beyond those two verses. You would have read, " For My thoughts are not your thoughts. Not My ways your ways, "says the LORD. For as the heavens are above the earth. So are is telling them what He is doing higher than your ways. And My thoughts than your thoughts. So go back and pay attention to what is written and how it's written. God in His sovereignty and providence is doing as He pleases. You can even go to Isa. 46 and see the context that even in verse 3-5, especially 9-10. As to Gal. the Greek word in reference to freedom. Is Strong's Number - G1657 Greek: ἐλευθερία Transliteration: eleutheria Pronunciation: el-yoo-ther-ee'-ah Definition: From G1658; freedom (legitimate or licentious chiefly moral or ceremonial):. So, the freedom we're called to is freedom from immorality. See verse 1. Again, context is everything. He is telling us we are in a new law. The law of the Spirit. Again, in Rom. 9 it says," it's not of him who "WILLS" or of him who runs but of God who calls. Man's will cannot stand in God's way and purpose. No matter how much he wills. If you want to call that free will, have at it. To make it even clearer for you. Rom.9 says, "18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory" So as you can see God doesn't have an issue with long suffering. Or as you said hardship.

24 down, 26 videos to go of the Romans playlist! Very refreshing and i am learning a lot! Romans contains so much information and valuable lessons. Thank you Mike for spending so much time and efforts in these studies. God bless you and your family.

@ivylagrone8632

Жыл бұрын

there's a Romans playlist!? Where can I find it?!?

Love all of your teachings(so far), finding your thought in doctrine accurate and your spirit the spirit of Christ, so refreshing and encouraging. No hype just truth in a humble spirit.

So thankful for your ministry! These videos have been very helpful to me as I navigate these tough topics. Your outlook is refreshing as it is not divisive at all. You encourage people to study the Word for what it says and affirm that whatever "side" we land on we are still brothers and sisters in Christ and we can love each other accordingly. In my study I have come to many of the same conclusions as you and I thought I was some weird person that didn't fit anywhere, so I am thankful to know I'm not alone.

This particular video is why I started watching him regularly. Very deep and thorough analysis of the views giving equal credit to all ideas good or bad all the while refusing to step away from the standpoint of what the scripture is saying!

This is so well presented and backed up by scripture. I have never believed in Calvinism but this is one of the best studies I've heard. Thank you so much for the study and effort you've put into this. God bless you

Amen! Absolutely the greatest and most COMPLETE explanation I have ever heard in my 45 years of being a Christian. Thanks for the hard work that you put into this.

@elunico13

Жыл бұрын

That's unfortunate.

@commenter5901

Жыл бұрын

@@elunico13 I think that he means that this is the first time he's ever heard such a complete explanation of Calvinism and Arminianism and how it relates to the teachings in the Bible, and I have to agree. In fact, I've never heard a sermon on the topic at all before and didn't know who Calvin or Arminian were until my sister just started going to a Calvinist church. The church that I've been attending for the past 30 years teaches the same doctrine as pastor Mike here, but they never put a label on it, they just taught out of the Bible. So I went online to figure out what it means and this is the best explanation that I've heard. In conclusion, I don't follow any one man's interpretation of the Bible, I follow God. I believe that the Bible is the word of God, so I believe that it is correct, even if some of it sounds more Calvinist and some sounds more Arminianist. I'm not sure why people had to label different interpretations and make people choose sides. Just believe the Bible.

@elunico13

Жыл бұрын

@@commenter5901 That's awesome. I'm glad you got a chance to listen to this teaching. As a soldier in the Army I move around a lot and forced to attend churches in different states, cpuntries with different beliefs. Calvinism or the doctrines of Grace are only a small portion of what is called reformed theology, coming out of the Reformation of 1517. That's when there was a great separation from the Catholic Church. And The crux of the issue that separated us was Sola Fide. That we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. I know what you mean about "I believe the Bible". So do I, but remember we're part of the larger body of Christ made up of both present, future and those in the past. We're not the first ones to ever take the Bible seriously and much can be learned by our Christian Brothers n Sisters from hundreds of years ago. Church history and the confessions they wrote. I don't sit in my room alone reading the Bible coming up with my own interpretations. I do read, but highly consider the doctrines of others in the body of Christ, keeping in mind that the scriptures are about God's redemptive plan to reconcile us to Himself through Christ by believing the gospel, which is the power of God to save all who believe.

@elunico13

Жыл бұрын

@Thomas B I'm a nerd. Pay no attention to me

@irvinquijano

11 ай бұрын

That's awesome broh. Listen to allen parr , he is friends with mike winger

Excellent explanation, Mike... clear, thoughtful, and Biblical! Been battling the 'either/or" approach to this topic fo years. Im binge-watching your channel and am very impressed! God bless! Keep up the good work. -Rev Kev

I was saved by reading the Word. I just KNEW that what I was reading was true. I didn't choose, I just believed as I read and I was born again instantly! My mother, however, confessed that she'd made a mess of her life and asked the Lord to take control and guess what? She was born again! Neither of us have ever been The same from that moment on. The outcome was the same, even though the journeys getting there were different. The take away? God is SOVEREIGN.

About 27 minutes into this, and already Mike has help me to see the issue in ways that I'd never considered before, already has brought to my attention phrases (e.g. "in him") that I'd never before considered in mulling over the issue.

Right in the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism- that's right where I find myself as well. Thank you for the good word, brother!

@Creshex8

3 жыл бұрын

They are mutually exclusive. How can you be in between them?

@ginamartinez1654

3 жыл бұрын

Yes same

@golightly5121

3 жыл бұрын

Bad place to be, they are both wrong. Election is to service, predestination is the destined things a saved person will experience.

@ginamartinez1654

3 жыл бұрын

@@golightly5121 can you give me bible verses and explain some. This actually makes a lot of sense if its biblical

@golightly5121

3 жыл бұрын

@@ginamartinez1654 yes, first go to blue letter bible and use KJV. Do a word search on Elect. See how it is connected to service.

It's very good that you bring up the calvinist's interpretation and then give your response to that. It makes your arguments more dynamic.

@kennychristiangomez6196

3 жыл бұрын

Jesus said, I have chosen you Twelve but one of you is the devil.

@regularstan6212

3 жыл бұрын

@@kennychristiangomez6196 so are you the devil?

@KM-zn3lx

3 жыл бұрын

I know this is 3 yes. Later, but a Orthodox Presbyterian pastor has tried to go over some of this and even given me a book. It seems like " splitting hairs" as one could say God knows ahead of time who will and won't truly follow him. It's confusing if you think of God as omniscient and omnipresent. Past,present and future reside with him continuously! I am turned off by the term elect but I also have never liked to refer to myself as saved, are the two terms any different? Also, I don't mind infant baptism as whole households were baptised and some of those could've been infants. You don't need to be baptized to be saved. I hope someone can answer these.....In John Jesus said you did not choose me but I chose you. So, how much is our free will? So confusing!

@hleigh7201

3 жыл бұрын

@@KM-zn3lx In John, Jesus said "I choose you" but He was speaking about His purpose. He didn't say "I chose you to go to heaven." Jesus died for the sins of the world, not just for some. God says He knew us before the foundation of the world. Can you imagine a loving God who decides before we are ever born which ones He wants to burn in hell for eternity? They also believe that murder, rape, etc are pre-ordained by God! The Word tells us over and over to humble ourselves. He tells us that He sets before us life and and death, and tells US to chose! So, if God chooses whoever He wants, why should we humble ourselves? Why should we chose? Calvinism takes all of the responsibility off of man and puts it all on God. So we are not free and are not responsible for our actions and decisions. That is so unbiblical. People who follow Joseph Smith are Mormons, those who follow Charles Russell are Jahovah's Witnesses, and those who follow John Calvin are Calvinists. We should only follow Christ and be Christians. Blessings ☺️❤️🙏

@toplobster1040

3 жыл бұрын

@@hleigh7201 You refuted Calvinism with a few simple arguments! It's funny because those are the ones I came up with too lol.

Mike, although I disagree with some of your doctrines, I find your unifying tone refreshing! Your manner of presentation is easy for me to hear.

@Machonacholibre

6 жыл бұрын

WickAndTallow the presentation really is fantastic. It really shows that His heart for all people.

@andrewnunez7894

6 жыл бұрын

WickAndTallow I agree with you 100% at first I was sorta skeptical about this guy for whatever reason I had many videos ago but the more I listen to him I find myself loving his teachings and the grace with which he speaks! This is what a Christian looks like!

@craigamore2319

5 жыл бұрын

WickAndTallow, I agree and What I really like about Mike is that he always seems to read from the text, which is the right thing, rather than reading into it. As to the specific issue, there's a tension that seems to make it impossible to completely choose one side of the argument over the other. There's an element of the truth to both and that's fascinating.

@cheetolalito

5 жыл бұрын

Jason Ruediger I feel the exact same way. I was being a complete jerk about my differences with a reformed buddy of mine until I realized I was the one causing division; not necessarily the theology. There’s so much we can agree on and instead of focusing on those points I was building up Calvinist straw man and burning it down. I realize he is as convicted to certain elements of Calvinism as I am to traditionalism. That was mind blowing for me to think about. He is genuinely taking the text and drawing out Calvinistic theology and I’m doing the same but at opposite spectrums. In the end we are both brothers in Christ assured in our salvation by faith in Christ. Once I jumped that hurdle I instantly quit being the little offended cry baby during our weekly bible studies. It is indeed interesting how both sides are reflected in the text and I can’t seem to drink enough scripture to be 100% convinced of either.

@yeoberry

5 жыл бұрын

Edward Peters : You’re not genuinely deriving “traditional” theology from the Bible because what you call “traditional” isn’t really traditional” but modern man/centered philosophy; evangelicals and especially Baptists were traditionally Calvinists and the Bible doesn’t teach your man-centered philosophy; you read it into the text. But it’s good that you’re softening in your man-centered philosophy.

2:06, 2:24, 2:36, 2:41 - difference between election and predestination 5:01 - Ephesians 1:4 5:25 - Matthew 22:14 5:54, 6:19, 6:46, 7:08 - Acts 13:48 6:18, 6:37 - corporate election 7:45 - 8:34 - Israel and choices 9:00, 9:35, 10:20, 11:20, 15:15 - Unconditional election 11:50, 19:11 - middle ground 11:56 - Arminian view 12:27 - 1 Peter 1:2 14:25 - Romans 8:29 14:58 15:40 16:16, 16:45 - Ephesians 2:8 feminine and neuter 18:12 - predestination 18:42, 19:13 - Acts 4 20:13, 20:36 - Ephesians 1:5 and Ephesians 1:11 26:02, 26:44 - Limited atonement and 2 Peter 2:1 27:50 - Revelation 5:9 29:12 - 1 John 2:2 34:23 - Winger’s take on the five points 37:00 - sovereignty and free will 37:39 - do we need to reconcile the two? 38:49 - who chooses? 40:34 42:39 - predestination, sovereignty, and free will

@davidwalsh9850

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent!

@NicholsonBacay

2 жыл бұрын

thanks for this.

@jimmoses607

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the timestamps!

@tjmarcil1244

Жыл бұрын

Need a job? Lol great work thank you!

@zekdom

Жыл бұрын

@@tjmarcil1244 Seriously though, time-stamping would be a sweet gig. lol

Thank you, I just prayed about this , and the Holy Spirit reminded me of you. I searched for "Free Will Mike Winger" and found this. This has brought me great peace, God Bless you.✝️

You are so right Mike Winger. We don't have to find a one way solution whether GOD chooses us or we chooses his offer ...Thank You for this great teaching. Blessings from Germany

@DerMelodist

4 жыл бұрын

Grüße aus den USA!

Just discovered this KZread channel....sound doctrine, Word centered and the whole counsel of God....so refreshing and clear in a day where there are so many seducing voices for itching ears....Oh that we would let the Word of Christ dwell in us richly and continually be filled with the Spirit...then let Him live His truth and love through us!! Highly recommend all the videos I have watched so far....

@peteanddrake4242

5 жыл бұрын

yes, it's called confirmation bias.

This is one of the best biblical descriptions that I’ve heard on the topic. Pastor Winger was very humble and respectful to the authority of Scripture and laid it out using a hermeneutical approach, which is how it should be done. Thank you, brother Winger. I pray that many will be helped by listening to this sermon so that they can be free from false ideologies and can proclaim the Gospel to EVERY creature, just as Jesus commanded all those who will follow Him. Mark 16:15.

"These are not dividing issues." Yes! Thank you! Plain reading of the text. 📖

Invaluable teaching! Thank you for sharing this, brother!

Spoken with complete grace and truth!! 1 Corinthians 3:4 “For when one says, “I follow Paul,(Calvinism)” and another, “I follow Apollos,(Arminianism)” are you not being merely human?” Christ Jesus is our foundation!!!

@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr

2 жыл бұрын

It's just a label for a set of beliefs. I doubt people are really following some guy name Armin.

@victorcritelli5790

Жыл бұрын

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr I do see many do follow a guy named Calvin, Though they don't realize it, I have been researching this debate for a couple weeks, and honestly there are many videos on the Calvinist side that really just say clearly this is the truth and everyone who disagrees is on thing or another, Saw one yesterday there was a whole panel, asked what is the dif between Calvinism and hyper Calvinism his answer was don't ask a Armenian because he is ignorant and does not understand the basics and a hyper Calvinist is lost his mind so only a Calvinist is in his right mind I mean he went on longer in more depth but there it is this attitude I see over and over again, I am watching a movie called the Calvinist or Calvinist or something like that kind of made it out like everything really started at the reformation and from there the reformed church split between Calvin and Armenian and the Armenian side fell into all false doctrine and Calvinism is the beacon of truth, Even Macarthur who I love his teaching mostly but on this he says if you are not Calvinist either you really are but don't realise it or will become a universalists eventually

@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr

Жыл бұрын

@@victorcritelli5790 Sounds like Calvinists are arrogant.

I like your humble perspective on this issue. God is sovereign, Even and especially of our salvation. We can be thankful. This realization brings me to my knees.

I sat through a TULIP orientation at a church I was attending recently. Much of what the pastor said just didn't seem to make sense to me. When the time came for Q&A I pressed him about almost every point he made. I was told it was a Calvinist church but had no idea what that meant until after the TULIP presentation for newcomers. I really appreciate your work on this subject. Your presentation is straightforward and easy to follow. I've moved on to a different "non-Calvinist" church where I am completely happy.

Great video. It takes humility to think about things and stumble over stuff that you can't understand fully. Great sermon Brother. I stumble a slightly different way but I know we are brothers :-)

Here are my thoughts on how we might reconcile predestination through God's choice of an elect and our ability to make a free-will decision to accept or deny Him. We have to realize that God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. Omnipresent has always been understood to mean not just everywhere, but also everywhen. I think we really need to break the temporal aspect of that away from the location aspect and make it its own category: Omnitemporal. We very often forget that God is not bound by time. God created time. With this in mind. God knew the choice you would make before He created you. He knew the choice you would make before He created anything. Thus, there is no need to reconcile your free-will choices with the Will of God. He is present in all times. He knows every beginning and every outcome. God knowing what you will choose, outside of the restrictions of time, does not conflict with your ability to make the choice within time. Our confusion with this perceived conflict stems from our inability to understand an existence outside of time. God has no such difficulty.

@sirsmiter1115

2 жыл бұрын

We do need to reconcile our free will with His because we did in fact sin within time and he chooses to reconcile us within time by his ordnance which occurs within history.

@audreyandremington5265

Жыл бұрын

Ye, I imagine it like, God sees the universe as a static, not moving 4D structure. Like every moment of our universe is put together to make the 4d structure (since God is outside of time and can see the universe from this outside perspective). And our free will is how our individual souls shape our 4D structure, but God can see it all and makes everything work out in the end.

@johntrevett2944

Жыл бұрын

God chooses and man chooses. God doesn't choose and man doesn't choose. Yet, God doesn't just conform to man's choice/foreseen faith. Wrap your mind around that one...

@michaelmorales5234

Жыл бұрын

You are smart I can tell , you ever read that God is God in the Highest Dwells in unapproachable Light Because he is Light but good news ! We can through Jesus our Mediator through him we can come freely with confidence to the Omniscient Omnitemporal One as you comment cause Jesus fills all things in earth and in heaven . He made the worlds all things visible and invisible were made by him The Epistle of Paul to the Colossians is where I recognized the word Omniscient .Glory to God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ .enjoyed your words , thanks they are packed with life .Go for the Gold ! Of the calling of God ..

@Brandon-ew9xx

Жыл бұрын

never heard it put that way, but I like how you explain it. I also

Thank you so much for doing this. It is so refreshing to find someone who is not caught up in the wisdom of man, and the strifes over words, and the intruding into things which are not seen, which both Calvinism and Arminianism engage in. It's like they are sitting on opposite corners of the same prison cell, the prison cell of the human mind, yelling and screaming at each other about how the other one is in prison... May God bless you, prosper you and get the message out. I'm so tired of dealing with people who just don't seem to be able to free themselves from the intrusions of men's wisdom into the simple and wonderful doctrines of the scripture!

@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr

2 жыл бұрын

Is curiosity bad? Is more understanding bad?

@Mike Winger Thank You! this is the first time I've heard this issue explained in a way that makes sense!

You are so good! thank our Lord Christ Jesus for you!

I found your preaching after looking up Melchizedek and I'm so happy I did. I'm someone who does wrestle with predestination and free-will and after sitting under preaching for an "effectual call" i got lost in Google trying to figure things out. Thanks for your humble and great teaching.

@d-marierasberry3449

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for explaining a very confusing topic! God is such a mystery and I know we humans cannot understand Him completely while we are on Earth; however, the more I study, the more confused I get. Your positive approach and your humor are refreshing! Bless your ministry!🙏💞

Beautifully, very well carefully, clearly, explained back up with scripture. Praise Jesus. Thank you God bless

This sums it up pretty well: We can make our plans, but the Lord determines our steps. - Proverbs 16:9

@brianc81

3 жыл бұрын

Don't forget Proverbs 16:1 and 16:4 God is Sovereign over his creation..

I am so grateful for what you are saying here. I am starting to feel settled in my heart that what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me, I am understanding correctly. I love the Calvinists that I know but I couldn’t make the points hold water, so to speak. Thank you for taking the time to share this and to back it up with Scripture and for showing why Calvinism doesn’t hold true.

@hijohojo2868

2 жыл бұрын

Calvinism is true though. Free will is as well

Hey Mike, "you can't be there" Classic!! Ive been told the same thing. I just wanted to thank you for using the scriptures to explain the scripture. When dealing with others regarding my stance on exactly what you just explained they referr back to what man says or has written and that always carries a bias. Though the writtings are great its still lends to one side. I found that most need the approval of someone "smarter" to help affirm the position. Lets just use the bible. The bible accurately explains itself and there does exist a middle ground "Christ and Him crucified." I believe in predestination and election but im not a Calvinist nor am i an Arminion but rather one "of the way" just a follower of Christ and am eternally grateful for His transforming power. Keep it up. We can disagree on secondary stances but on primary we have to agree. Be blessed brother.

@fbnflaviusbroadcastingnetw6786

5 жыл бұрын

Sonny Contreras just like David bro! Intent not to steer to the right, nor to the left, but straight on!

@JesusLovesBest

4 жыл бұрын

I agree! Mike did a good job teaching about these different belief systems. (Praying we don't scare off unbelievers with all our knowlege(s))

I was just thinking about this again, this morning. It's great to have this video to come back to. Thank you for this helpful teaching.

Not only does what you’re teaching make sense due to your diving into scripture, backing it up with scripture and using helpful analysis, it simply MELTS away this CRIPPLING anxiety I have around assurance of salvation! Sitting under the Calvinist teaching is like a milestone hung over my shoulders and this is setting me free so it has to be truth ~John 8:31-32 Thank you Mike, continue in His Spirit and be blessed

Thank you for making you video audio so loud. I love listening and learning while working and getting ready for the day or bedtime.

I never could reconcile election, with free will. You've explained it better than I've ever heard before. Thank you 😊

@fbnflaviusbroadcastingnetw6786

5 жыл бұрын

jeanie garrison think of it as a parent and a child. A child that had been adopted.

@Creshex8

3 жыл бұрын

Throw out the libertarian free will. It is philosophical, man made garbage.

@h2s142

8 ай бұрын

Dont anthropomorphize God, use scripture only. We fall into the trap of using philosophy to form a correct doctrine or theology and thats where we get in trouble.

Thank you pastor mike for your teaching

Thsnk by oh so much for this explanation of what Calvanism about... The talk on predestination and election was. so helpful.. I will be listening to these videos at least a second time. There. is a lot of good information

Once again congratulations on your bravery and humility in presenting this topic solely based on Christian instead of interpreting scripture based on predisposed assumptions.

@kathyshearer3408

3 жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly! Only through Christ we are saved so that NO man may boast!

Love Beyond the Fundamentals channel. He explains calvinism so awesome. I'm sure you know of him. I love your studies Mike. Thank you for taking the time to help so many.

@laurakosch

4 жыл бұрын

Vicki m I’m with you - amen!! I find Kevin goes a little deeper and resolves the “tension” that is not in fact there.

@vickim6990

4 жыл бұрын

@@laurakosch also Sotriololgy channel

@Keepitoriginalministry

2 жыл бұрын

Calvinism is false doctrine. I'm going to make a video on this scripture today

@vickim6990

2 жыл бұрын

@@Keepitoriginalministry Yes I know it is. Many people believe is this false doctrine.

@BigSunshine55

5 ай бұрын

I have to disagree with Beyond the Fundementals. I don't like calvinism, but I don't believe that Calvinists get any of the gospel wrong. They believe that trusting in Jesus and his sacrifice for our sins is the only way to Heaven. If you believe in Him you are truly saved. They don't get that wrong.

Pastor Winger, more grace to you!

This is the best, even-handed sermon I've heard on the issue. Its like listening to non-partisan radio after hours of CNN or FOX XD.

I really like how you delivered this without slandering those who bielive differently than you on this issue, at the end of the day we all have to continue learning from each other as the body of CHRIST because no one is wise in this journey to heaven, may GOD help us all to stay humble and straighten our walk with the LORD.

I believe that God has a 'permissive will" which allows our choices and a "divine will" which has His plan fulfilled whatever our choices.

Hi pastor Mike, I'm a christina from colombia I Totally agree with you Thanks a lot

You're a brilliant teacher pastor, Mike. Your videos discussing Calvinism have greatly improved my understanding. I especially appreciate your approach to always using scripture. I studied the bible on my own without without a bible study group, or any preconceived notions or ideologies and I came to the exact same conclusion that you come to in this video. It was only when I looked into Calvinism a few days ago that I realized these things were even issues to begin with.

@AR15andGOD

Жыл бұрын

This is the same story for me. Got into it independently without any foreknowledge and it seems obvious. Always I thank God for allowing this to happen

God Almighty being God Almighty knows all things... before we're born he knows what we'll do and how we'll choose. He died for all, but all won't accept that free gift. I start with this premise, and it always ends here too!

@ReachOutToWilliam

3 жыл бұрын

This a specious argument. Are we living in a simulation? What Scripture can you point to that states what you are saying?

@hypnotank

3 жыл бұрын

@@ReachOutToWilliam 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

@kiwisaram9373

3 жыл бұрын

Would what God knows be descriptive rather than prescriptive in nature?

@earthmother4397

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. They both are true and work together.

@Objectivetruth9122

7 күн бұрын

The question is how does he know w all things? Because he sees into the future which no scripture states, or he knows the future because He works all things according to his will? Ephesians’

Love this. The whole Bible is true. It says predestination, free will are true, and God desires all to come to repentance.

Mike I really appreciate your way and humour in unpacking these often controversial topics. I sometimes want to dig in, change my stance, and more often than not am just happy to “go to bed” 😀 Merry Christmas to all for 2020 Celebrating Christ

@florachildressEarth2Flo

2 жыл бұрын

Christmas is pagan and God hates it. That is why God destroyed the state of Israel. Easter same. Valentines same. Holloweensame. Listen to Jim Brown Truth and Grace ministries on utube, you will learn Truth, not this watered down crap.

I appreciate your ministry very much! I have learned much. Thank you 😊

Well, I THOUGHT I was a Calvinist. Thank you Mike for clarification.

@Creshex8

3 жыл бұрын

Even Arminians always think it sounds much cooler to be a Calvinist, even if they disagree with the view.

Ephesians 2:9 ONLY THROUGH CHRIST WE ARE SAVED SO THAT NO MAN MAY BOAST.

@huntsman528

2 жыл бұрын

Kathy Shearer, I think you lost of the scripture there. "For it is by grace [male] you have been saved [male], through faith [female] and this [gender neutral, singular] is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

@happyforever1528

10 ай бұрын

For its by Grace you are saved through faith , and this is Not of yourselves but is a Gift from God , and not of works lest any man should boast ! .

This was great - really loved the illustration about marriage - both spouses are involved in the choosing.

Excelente point, it opened my mind to understand, the husband and wife it's like the Christ and the Church, we choose each other but He loved us first. Spot on.

Praying for those in authority doesn't need to mean for salvation; but to make the right decisions with their power etc.

Where can I verify the claim that feminine versus neuter indicates a reference to two different items in the topic?

@tmorganriley

2 ай бұрын

Alas, the most reliable way is with an NT in the original, and a knowledge of Koine Greek to parse the sentences out...

I’m exactly in the same position, in between....such a good message! Made great sense, thank you!

Sovereignty and Free will. I love the way these thoughts and ideas make peace one day and then the next nope. Praise God for the Word. Now let us pray for understanding, wisdom and love to poor from the Bible.

Great points. Keep in mind the “world” in 1john 2:2 is the same “world” in romans 3 that is guilty before God. The whole world is guilty, and Christ died for the same world.

@eliasbarrasa7320

4 жыл бұрын

I agree for we have already established that Both Jews and Greeks are all under sin. The world is Jews and Gentiles. If Jesus died for Judas Judas would be in heaven. You don't have Eternal Life bc you Believe you have Eternal Life bc God died for your sins. God died for us so that we would live with him 1 Thessalonians 5:9 The purpose of Christ death was to save us from hell. It is bc Jesus died for us that we live in Heaven we merely enter into that Gift reserved for us by Faith. In other words we're sanctified for salvation through his Death I lay down my life for my sheep. And we receive that Gift through faith. But the goats on Jesus's left hand they do not believe because God didn't die for them. Matthew 25 Jesus told the Pharisees you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. Only Jesus is sheep in other words those who He laid down his life for believe.

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

@@eliasbarrasa7320 well God never died, Jesus did there is a difference

@JesusLovesBest

3 жыл бұрын

@@eliasbarrasa7320 Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto myself.

@sunshinegirl1967

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for pointing that out. I've actually heard from certain POV's that world doesn't really mean world and all doesn't really mean all. 🤔 Sometimes (definitely not every time) the Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it. So yes world means world and all means all.

Amen Sir, we cannot comprehend Gods intelligence, we can only trust and just follow his way. Thanks for preaching the truth that unified churches, not dividing. God bless you!

More people need to see this. Explained the issue of free will in a loving way

May God bless you all, I got the same position as him, What's the name of song at the end of the video?

Mike, I am so glad I found your channel. I have watched several teachings in two days and finally feel like I have found someone who is honestly interested in "Rightly dividing the word of truth." I've gone thru 4 years of terrible personal upheaval and while I have stayed in prayer, my bible study and reading has suffered along with the situations in my life. I'd like to take a moment to encourage you that while you may not feel that "Calvanism vs Armenianism" is as important a subject as some other things that you have in line to teach on, this subject has been a source of fear to the point of complete terror for me. You see, I am one who wasn't chosen to play kickball on the playground, I was purposely misrepresented in a spelling contest when it came down to me and one other contestant. (That contestant would soon become my adopted sister.) At 10 yrs old, my life as second place or completely out of the competition was sealed with the adoption of my 10 yr old sister. We were like twins, but...She was prettier than I was, a better student, a star basketball player, (I didn't make the team...I was regional champ Gymnast all 4 yrs of high school, but gymnastics didn't "rate." She was home-coming queen, Most likely to succeed...everything, I grew up in her shadow. I completely love and adore her...everyone does. I had a couple other serious situations that taught me that I was not good enough, not wanted, had no worth. Then, in college, I went thru a terrible situation with a girl that I now know was a witch. She prophesied my death and I was done. I had nothing to hang on to, I had no purpose, I was going to die. I had to quit school. I became severely clinically depressed for 4 yrs. Then, Jesus revealed Himself to me in a couple of different ways...one on a job and the other by the brother of a boy I'd known for a long time. This brother was a Christian and shared Christ with me. I wish I could say, I immediately was delivered from depression and low self-esteem, but at least I had HOPE. I had a life-line. I ended up marrying this Christian Young man, we have 3 children who I adore, but who are recently victims of a broken home. My husband of 25 yrs, divorced me for the "Gym/body-building life" and much younger women. This is the personal upheaval I first spoke of. Betrayed, told he never loved me, I was forsaken. As if my whole life was a lie. So, wow, I must have needed to get this out. Its been a tough go. My point is that since I was very little, I have believed that I was not good enough. When I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, I didn't believe that He chose me back. I would joke that I was one who came in over the fence when He wasn't looking...that's really not funny, but its how I felt...like if He knew I was in the flock, he would throw me out. I don't have any overwhelming sin in my life, past or present. I've repented numerous times of anything past that is brought to mind, and I pretty much repent daily. So my feeling of not being good enough, is not related to a hidden sin...its just how I grew up. So, and I'll try to bring this long story to a close, but I do have two scriptures for you to chew on, that I didn't hear in this teaching. When I would read the Word, of course, I would get stuck on all the scriptures about election. Never having been chosen, and the one, most magnificent God-centered covenant I ever entered into, was broken and again, I was not good enough...never had been. So scriptures about election really, really frightened me, to the point where I did not want to read the Bible. However, one night I was praying and asking the Lord about this subject. I'm not going to say "He said to me." but somehow, the concept of a football game was imparted to me. God knew the end from the beginning, so He knows who is going to win the game and He joins in things like calling plays and cheering for team He knows who will win. It was incredibly simple (maybe I'm incredibly simple). He didn't go into whether He also helped the losing team even tho He foreknew the winners...I think the Lord just gave me what I needed. The next night our worship team (my husband was worship leader and bass player...assistant pastor and youth pastor), was getting together to "Jam" with Calvary Fellowship's worship team. I was just sitting around, when the Calvary pastor came and sat across from me, he could tell I was unhappy. I told him I was battling with the idea of election, and he said, "Well, I always think of God's election kind of like watching a football game....." and proceeded to complete the thought that I had or that I was "given." Either way, it seemed like a Word for me. A little miracle. Now, then, there are two scriptures which also helped. The first one is OT Isaiah 56:3 "Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the Lord, say 'Surely the Lord will forget me.'" I just looked it up, and didn't find those exact words, I think I probably memorized it about 35 yrs ago from an NIV version, but still, what I see now seems to mean the same thing. So, in that, I see that Isaiah clearly has the concept of God's chosen people as his basic underpinning, but then, allows for a person, a foreigner, to come to the Lord of his own free will and have the assurance that the Lord will not "separate him from His people." So, then, I see free will and it comforts me. The other passage I wanted to mention is one that you taught the first verse of, but I find the "answer" in the two scriptures below. This is the passage in Ephesians 1 starting, as you quoted with vs 11, "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will." NOW, hear the next three verses. Vs.12 ,13 & 14 are a further explanation of the purpose teaching AND free will of this teaching: Vs. 12- "that we who FIRST trusted in Christ SHOULD BE to the praise of His glory." It seems Paul is explaining that He and the disciples, and maybe some other original believers were needed in God's plan of spreading the gospel, therefore those who "first trusted in Christ" were predestined and chosen for His purpose (spreading the Gospel) and should be to the praise of His glory. Now 1:13 completes the whole thought, "In Him you also trusted AFTER YOU HEARD the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, HAVING BELIEVED , you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. 14. Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, (again) to the praise of His glory. So, it seems to me like God had a definite and obvious purpose in choosing the 12 disciples (yet, still one of them was "a devil") which was to spread the gospel of Christ. So, those were chosen, and yes, to the praise of His glory! What a great plan to save the world! Then, after the chosen 12 began to work the works according to the purpose of the counsel of God's will, OTHERS were also sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, a guarantee of inheritance, after they heard the fulfilment of the word of truth and believed (w free will) what the 12 were predestined and chosen to teach. As for me, I would think this type of election for a purpose of specific service is completely at God's discretion and certainly happened many, many more times than just the 12 disciples. And yet, wherever the Word of Truth is taught, the Spirit of Promise is ready to seal anyone who will believe the gospel by their free will. Perhaps you can come up with scripture that would blow away my interpretation of Eph 1:11-14. (I wish you wouldn't! :) What I like about my thinking here is that it does include both elect with a purpose and free will. Even in being elect, there is still free will (Judas) and yet that didn't thwart God's plan. I think we'd have to agree that Paul was definitely hand-picked...but not first. Was that part of the plan? Perhaps. However, I am satisfied to believe that if Judas and Paul were part of God's plan, its because He foreknew who would win the game.

@CS_Lewis

3 жыл бұрын

really touching

@florachildressEarth2Flo

2 жыл бұрын

You should listen to Jim. Brown truth and Grace ministries on utube, he will low you away with Truth. I was never chosen or special in my life, always on the outside looking in, asking for many decades what was the magical words to get to God, turns out, predestination is true, sounds like you are predestined but need to study with a man who knows so much about the Bible, he won’t sugar coat it for you, ut if your elect, you will grow to love this message of Gods messenger.

@uiPublic

2 жыл бұрын

What-If only Replays the God's game as in prayers with Him, yet John 3:16 too reminds my Conscientious effort unlike Adam and Eve how surrenders Conscious Free Wills adopted since in Worldly games whoever mind you winning such not by Rosy rules the Beatitudes luckily be unashamed of Either-If placed in Heavenly Eden or New Earth when coming?!

@jeanmeullion6641

Жыл бұрын

God is only going to save those that He predestined to be with him. God was an evil, cruel and mean God to me. He created me an unbeliever as a forerunner and he didn't give me Jesus Christ and he told me that he did not predestine me to be with him. And he didn't want to save my soul. Then he told me all my righteousness and holy living is all in vain after he set me up to fail the Spiritual Death. I called out to Jesus on so many occasions begging him to please come live inside of me but he refused to because he did not want to save me.

@theparadigmshift74

Жыл бұрын

This was an awesome read

I grew up Dutch Reformed, was in a charismatic church for a couple of years, then Baptist and in February this year God placed me back in the Reformed church where I’m an elder. I don’t subscribe to all the ‘teachings’ and frankly find discussions about divisive things tiring and deal with them privately in my relationship with God unless the Holy Spirit leads me differently. Thank you for sharing your enlightening videos.

This is a huge teaching, well worth spreading. Thank you pastor Mike for your stewardship of the Word of God!

Oh my goodness what gives God glory is letting his grace be amazing grace for the whole world that's giving God glory!!! The opposite is saying God's grace is only for a few who are elect.

@tmorganriley

2 ай бұрын

Precisely. The idea of an all-micro-managing absolute tyrant may seem most-powerful, but it is far less glorious than an infinitely loving but also infinitely just, merciful King, a giver of both law and liberty, whose main demand is that we cease our rebellion and swear fealty to Him and His perfect ways. True glory >>> a petty idea of "sovereignty".

Mike, your presentation style is warm and inviting and your desire to know the Word is so appreciated. I lovingly invite you and those who have viewed your video to also watch this excellent video on the topic. 12-minute teaching followed by a 12-minute Q/A. Bottom line: Yes, God foreknew those who would, of their own volition, choose to be saved. But God's foreknowledge doesn't MAKE them believe; He just knows this information as facts of history. He is before and after time. So He knows the end from the beginning. Everything future to us is already a fact of history to Him. God lives in the eternal present tense. And then, based on His foreknowledge of who will trust Him, God "elects"...not to salvation but for a divinely appointed ROLE in our service for Him. Look at all the examples throughout the Bible of those who were "elected" or "chosen"...(For example: Jesus, Israel, even Judas!) Were any of these elected to salvation? No. And even though Israel was God's elect nation, the majority of them dropped dead in the wilderness and failed to enter into Canaan because of unbelief. And then what do we do with Gentiles like Rahab who eventually became part of the chosen nation? Here is the big idea: God doesn't "elect" people to salvation. He "elects" people for a ROLE. Please watch. This is liberating: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nIFhlJKDqqvWY6w.html

@jamesstumpff7774

2 жыл бұрын

He “elects” people for a role…well I agree…just bigger thought…he “calls” all to repentance and adoption…unfortunately, few like Rahab say…YES God “wants” to Marry us…ALL of us…but He CANT Force us…that would NOT be marriage…it’s called rape…and God can’t DO THAT…He just Can’t God is Worshipped Round the Clock…not only for what He CAN Do…but also what He can’t…we just don’t give Him enough credit You know those 4 Living Beings that SURROUND HIM? Ponder this…God CANNOT…neglect them, abuse them denigrate them…And they KNOW it…they FEEL it…They are not chained to His throne…they are free to leave! Of course they had a huge advantage over Lucifer…the could see the cold and darkness behind them without removing their eyes from the living one.

@jamesstumpff7774

2 жыл бұрын

Calvinists talk about God striking out in Love…it seems that Calvinists are confusing lovers and sex slaves Lovers are always vulnerable…can always be rejected…can always be trampled…surely you’ve read what Christ cries out at the very end for those HE LOVED…and those who hated Him…strike out?…Hell No..out of the park bottom of the ninth bases loaded home run for the win

@myrthasprouse8601

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing this video. I found it so very helpful.

I truly believe that there is both God choosing us and us also choosing Him. Its both. God chooses or we choose. You should not purely camp your theology as "I am a strict Calvinist" or "I am a strict Arminianist". I see this evidently through how people expain differently how they came to know God. "He knocked on the door and I welcomed Him", "I was at my lowest point in life and decided to read the Bible and go to church and was convinced that there is no other way, so I knocked on God's door and He welcomed me." In my case I went to God. I asked Him to prove He was real. I chose to pursue Him. He in return chose to pursue me. I had the free will to do so and God was faithful to this and heard my earnest cry. Seems as though it is truly both working together in many cases, God choosing, and or us choosing. Is God capable of operating through strictly either? Yes because He's God. If you disagree with this or another person's theology, at the end of the day this debate does not and should not divide us as the Body of Christ. We agree on "90%." We should place our focus on that. The other "10%" is held in consideration. It's a healthy consideration and great discussion. A great conversation which shouldn't divide us. We are ONE.

this is possibly the best video i've been able to find on this subject God Bless. Going to re-watch a second time to confirm my findings XD.

I love how you put that together. I also believe this but you helped me better explained it. I have always felt some how the truth was right in the middle of both views yet, the two sides have also caused great decision in our churches.

Long long ago a book was written, it was called “the lambs book of life “and in that book names were written, and of those names none were lost , THEY were all saved , and given eternal life.....

@darrengarvie8832

3 жыл бұрын

That is true I just wonder sometimes does time get in the way that we read and understand text?;

My oldest grandson is reformed Presbyterian and I was born again into an evangelical church back in the late 70’s and it seems as if we have very little in common. He is an intellectual and that makes it difficult, as well. We can’t or don’t engage in talking about the Lord very often, which I do a lot when talking to other believers. Help! It is so distressing to me, I feel he thinks he is so above me, spiritually and he has very little experience because his faith is so dry and void of the spirit, from what I can see. I’m not trying to be above anyone, but having walked with the Lord for over 42 years, GOD has been so good to me, so faithful, loving and has rescued me and protected me miraculously, but sharing some of this seems so futile. And disbelieved and probably even ridiculed. I’m at a loss, and from what I’ve seen, that RP group seems spiritually dead, no life, Christ’s abundant life, at all.

Glorious! Thank you Mike.

Great teachings. The Call is sincere and many seem to avoid this topic but, you tackled it head on. I love all points of views on Election and this is a great one.

Having freedom of choice makes me feel much more grateful to God. Because it makes me realise that the Creator of the Earth and the whole universe is so tender, merciful and loving that He risks Himself being rejected. Rejection is painful, especially when you love that person so deeply. His love for us is just unfathomable. Who am I to reject this wonderful God?

@dfischer1709

4 жыл бұрын

as nice as that sounds that creates a small , God who is hoping someone accepts his gift of salvation. This does not deplict the God of the Bible. whether we like it or not God is sovereign in everything, including salvation.

@florachildressEarth2Flo

2 жыл бұрын

God was rejected, His son murdered horribly, you do not have free will. Listen to Jim Brown Truth and Grace ministries on utube

"We love Him because he FIRST loved us." or we choose Him because he FIRST chose us.

@revbobmartin

4 жыл бұрын

Saved Starr We are supposed to choose to believe and repent because He is the Word of our CREATOR and follow Him.

@dfischer1709

4 жыл бұрын

@@revbobmartin God is sovereign in all^ including our salvation:)

@stephenrogers5593

4 жыл бұрын

But we still have to choose lol

@bradenglass4753

4 жыл бұрын

We still have to choose, thats the purpose of life. Calvinism is heresy lol

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

@@stephenrogers5593 exactly love by definition has to be freely given and freely received

Thank you so much for clarity on this subject, so helpful.

I always enjoy these older teachings of you on stage pastor mike

Spot on Mike. Rest in God's sovereignty and stop worrying about it! Best advice I ever heard on theology and I've been to Seminary!

@LetsTalkChristMinistries

5 жыл бұрын

Jonathan Soko No.

@93556108

4 жыл бұрын

@Jonathan Soko please tell me as you claimed "But with God's sovereignty comes predestination" . What is the purpose of God's predestination? is it some to eternal life and some to eternal death as taught by Calvinism.

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Rom. 3.10-12)

@a-aron6724

3 жыл бұрын

It doesn't mean total depravity either

@linjicakonikon7666

Жыл бұрын

@@a-aron6724 Sounds like depravity to me.

Mike, I thank God and you for setting me free from calvinism, now I can love God so much more.

Great video. I'm very thankful for these videos

If Calvinism were true, do we realize how much shorter scripture could have been?

@igregmart

3 жыл бұрын

It is not a matter of "Calvinism" being true, but that "election" and "predestination" are clearly taught in the Bible.

@greggpowers2021

3 жыл бұрын

@@igregmart not individual of either. what examples would you give me?

@greggpowers2021

3 жыл бұрын

@@smokingcrab2290 If God calls, ensure the call is answered, teaches and leads through the Holy Spirit, ensures you cannot lose your salvation then the scriptures can be much shorter because the admonitions, warnings, and exhortations could be left out. In addition, so could doctrine since God is doing everything,

@regularstan6212

3 жыл бұрын

"Gen 1:1 In the beginning God decided everything. " And that's it.

@greggpowers2021

3 жыл бұрын

@@regularstan6212 That is not what it says and you know it.

Great teaching Mike! I try to have fellowship with Calvinists but sooner or later they are attacking people like Greg Laurie and Billy Graham saying they’re false teachers etc. Does anyone else find they are able to have continual fellowship with a Calvinist where these problems don’t come up? God Bless.

@jeanjacket4238

11 ай бұрын

I’m a reformed believer and I never attacked anyone…. Why do you say they.. I don’t like those Calvinist as much as the next guy… but I truly love John Calvin’s writings even though he was wrong on a lot of things. I am friends with non Calvinist and we have an amazing time together doing international missions.

@jeanjacket4238

11 ай бұрын

I believe every denomination has bad fruits… and yes us Calvinist seem to be a little more harsh then others.. but we are not perfect just like everyone else… only Jesus is perfect and He is the only one I follow.

Great video. The Lord gives us the ability to make choices while still be the Sovereign Ruler over all choosing who he wants as his bride. All glory to Him. Very similar to a man finding a wife and she choosing to submit to him.

recently I watched one of your videos and you mentioned a systematic Theology Book from a Professor from NOBTS, but i cannot find where i wrote down the name of the Book, can you help me?

When I knew the sovereignty of God I had real peace for the first time in my long life

@coryalbright9798

3 жыл бұрын

The calvinists don't use the word sovereignty correctly

@kiwisaram9373

3 жыл бұрын

I thought calvanists said no one could know whether they were saved or not?

@e.n.6079

2 жыл бұрын

@Molly Much why is that?

@ShepherdMinistry

2 жыл бұрын

@@kiwisaram9373 A Calvinist knows they’re saved by their desire to seek God. It shows the Holy Spirit working within. Over time this desire produces fruit which is traces of the Holy Spirit sanctifying you. God bless, SM

@linjicakonikon7666

Жыл бұрын

@@ShepherdMinistry I've met a lot of Muslims and Adulterous Christians who fit into that catagory

Mike, thank you so much for this particular study as it has been a huge issue with me. Also, if Jesus didn't die for us al, and/or we have no decision in in salvation, then John 3:16-17 and many other verses such as He is not willing that ANYONE should perish but all be called to repentance that it appears as if God is lying and He cannot lie. Also, if we have no way then why do we even need to share the Gospel since no matter what we way or do will make no difference since they are either GOING to be saved or not. I can repent, live the best righteous life as possible, be as Holy as possible, obey God but if I wasn't one of His elect or chosen, then it's all in vain no matter how sincere I am. I am doomed to hell but my lying, adulterous, thief and drug dealinf neighbor is going to Heaven no matter what. I am a sinner, a wretch saved by grace but if the Calvinist are true then I have NO assurance I am saved. I know I am desperately in need of a Savior and I truly pray that if I really had such a man or woman next door that they too would come to Christ. This is why I love the "thief on the cross" true story so much. Never too late as long as we are alive. GOD BLESS AND LOVE YOUR SITE AND VIDEOS AND ONLY DISAGREE ON SPEAKING IN TONGUES BUT LOVE IT THAT YOU DON'T TELL US IF WE DON'T, WE ARE GOING TO HELL. MUCH LOVE IN CHRIST JESUS.

Thank you so much! I agree! Do you think it's okay to listen to calvinist's sermons if you don't agree with that particular aspect of their doctrine, but the rest is sound? I quite often listen to John Piper... Any thoughts?

@howardmanley3388

3 жыл бұрын

Celeste Worship you evidently know the answer to ur question or you wouldn’t have worded it the way you did? ✅

@abbafatherswarriorprincess3627

3 жыл бұрын

@@howardmanley3388 So the answer is "yes" then?

Thanks for addressing these very difficult topics most pastors avoid.