LOVE Maia’s channel and her thoughtful approach to film criticism. Haven’t dabbled in TikTok film criticism. I enjoy the long form videos that are clearly collaborations amongst a handful of creatives. And can’t count how many times I’ve finished a movie and immediately deep dived KZread to better understand its complex layers.

Wow, PSA & Broey Deschanel? Reminds me of the old Reeses PB slogan, "2 great tastes that taste great together"! Congrats to Broey for being featured on such a mainstream large-audience American podcast (Maia is based in Canada). Judging from the other comments (as of this writing), the PSA audience hasn't heard of Broey, but I am a subscriber and have enjoyed her work since she started. Really, "film tube" is thriving right now, marrying intellectual analysis with sociology and media criticism. The YT algorithm isn't sending me content from paid film influencers (yet), but I feel like they wouldn't be much different from makeup and beauty influencers, where shilling for product is so much the norm that that knowledge is merely built into your own analysis of the video you are watching.

very cool convo. I just started a media literacy class and i have been thinking bout alot of the things that you guys talked about in this episode. its cool that you guys are so on topic with the politics and social ideas of the current day. thanks guys.

What a great guest! Really good conversation. I'm very curious what Maia thinks of movie riffing outfits like Mystery Science Theater 3000, Rifftrax, Master Pancake and the like. I think riffing on bad movies is a fun way to educate audiences about what makes a movie a bad movie. It helps me appreciate well-made movies even more. Also, MST3k, for example, created a movie audience that is pre-sensitized to detecting and enjoying bad movies which has created viral bad movie phenomenons like The Room, Birdemic, Sharknado. In fact, there is now a market for intentionally bad movies (Sharknado). The initial audiences of The Room immediately recognized how bad it was and spontaneously started laughing (a phenomenon predicted by Mel Brooks in The Producers'). But I think it would not have happened so quickly in real life without an audience that grew up with MST3K.

There's so many surface level takes on tiktok that it makes you believe media literacy is dying.

@michaeladkins6

9 ай бұрын

Because there are so many movies flopping? There are too many.

I think Mike Stoklasa is honestly much more of a pioneer in the long form video essay genre than Lindsey Ellis, and have to imagine his essays, which date back to 2008, were influential on her (among countless others), who didn't start creating hers until 2014. He studied film in school (Columbia College Chicago) and never was just a "man yelling at camera" type of KZreadr, but actually rooted his early reviews of Star Trek, Star Wars, and others very much in the cultural landscape in which they came out and how they shaped what followed. They were meticulously researched and well constructed if sometimes crude or bizarre (but so are Lindsay's, ContraPoints, Broey's, etc...).

@codybishop7526

9 ай бұрын

Came here to see if RLM was mentioned. They were truly the pioneers in long form movie content.

Representation in film criticism has always been an issue imo. I'm not just talking race and gender. I'm also speaking of critics who have deep knowledge of specific genres. Would you ever listen to the opinion of an optometrist about the concerns you have about your heart? All doctors are not experts in every medical field and all critics are not experts in every genre of film.

@SabiJD

9 ай бұрын

I get your general point, but it's an iffy thing to compare critique to. Medicine can mostly be objective. Art is always experiential. Therefore you can actually gain insight into a film or genre from an outsider that an insider might not be mindful of, due to over-familiarity.

@simplymincy

9 ай бұрын

​@SabiJD that is very true. I should have expanded more. While I never want to dismiss anyone's opinion, even ones I disagree with... what I was more getting at was the authoritative nature that some crtics speak about movies that they have little interest in. By themselves it is harmless, as a collection it really harms several films because it does not fit into a box where many critics at comfortable in and in turn studios react by reshaping the movies to fit what critics like, which tend to make every movie feel safe. You have a good point tho. Learning from anyone viewpoint is great and should be welcomed

@SabiJD

9 ай бұрын

@@simplymincy Could you give examples of what you describe in the second paragraph? I can't really think of any films where studios change course, so to speak, because of critical reaction. Critics generally don't really mean anything to studios... unless they praise films, and then their quotes are co-opted as marketing material. Apropos of which; marketing is where films really sink or swim, and no critical response can affect that - especially if a film is poorly marketed. The Northman could be an example of that, but I think it was always doomed to perform poorly... Frankly I think the vast majority of critics and reviewers didn't even understand it. On critics in general, though; for me perhaps the most important aspect isn't knowledge, or familiarity, it's *transparency*. You need people who are self-aware about their own tastes, who understand subjectivity, and can communicate what they felt a film 'is' and what it's doing. So long as you're aware of what the critic or reviewer values - and they're honest about it - that review can still have great merit.

@playdischord1791

9 ай бұрын

@@SabiJD About critics’ reactions affecting a film, I’m not sure these are good examples, but “The Thing” (and maybe it’s a thing with horror in general) and “Scarface” came to my mind. Hard to prove the negative critical reactions affected their box offices or other films in the industry but I do think it reflects that many critics can sometimes “miss” what a film is going for and requires other critics who have a different perspective or opinion to champion a film that may not seem “worthwhile” at first. I think it ties into what Maya was saying in the video about how “Bonnie and Clyde” needed that critic to champion and sell it to American eyes.

This was such a great discussion

Algorithmic punch! Amazing conversation, thanks for making this.

Script To Screen is also a fantastic channel if you love camera movement, improv, and how actors can convey a full line of dialogue with a simple stare. Always fascinating imo.

She is such a Rockstar. Thank you both for this compelling, intelligent, and nuanced discussion. Cheers. MFA ☘️

As somebody who watches A LOT of Film KZread and has since I was a kid, I think you can find absolutely incredible analytical content that deepens your understanding of the art form and beyond but there are also numerous subcultures online that are just so so embarrassing. One of the more notable examples is the MauLer community but you also have the Literally Me shit which crosses over with Film Bros and other weird formations. With the democratization present in the Internet, you of course get the opportunity for beautiful voices to be heard. But with the warmth and escapism also present in the Internet, you also get people becoming way too comfortable with leaving their personal issues at the door and creating their own stories in order to justify their lack of growth, their imperfections. Acting like a movie is bad or good because of its focus on Logic, how woke/non-woke it is, etc. etc. isn't really you giving a thoughtful honest perspective on Art. It's a veiled excuse for being insecure, for feeling dumb about not understanding something, anything you're ashamed of really. But thankfully there are plenty of creators out there who make great stuff about not just Film but other mediums within the Arts. Here are my personal favourites: Nerdwriter Josh Keefe Lindsay Ellis Folding Ideas Austin McConnell Jacob Geller The Cursed Judge The Canvas PowerPak Solar Sands EmpLemon StoryStreet hbomberguy Middle 8 Thomas Flight Skip Intro Elliot Roberts Burback The Kino Corner Sage's Rain Pointless Hub Chris McFeely Paper Will Comedy Without Errors Lessons from the Screenplay Behind the Curtain Schaffrillas Productions The Imaginary Axis Now You See It Karsten Runquist and Cinema Therapy

@audreywellham2413

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for all this. I’m going to research. 🙏🏻

@ANTIStraussian

9 ай бұрын

Is every frame a painting still a thing Do you like red letter media

@SeekSomethingMore

9 ай бұрын

Know any good channels by women? What's wrong with Mauler?

@princessjello

9 ай бұрын

​@@ANTIStraussianevery frame a painting has moved on from the film analysis scene.

@feral9902

9 ай бұрын

LOL Karsten

Love Broey Deschanel! Always great to see her

I enjoy when Max hosts.

Is “Broey” Canada’s new Marshal McLuhan? Her critiques of popular culture ranges beyond that of the normal vlogger in integrating social commentary with media criticism.

Let's be honest, mass media film criticism has declined over the last 20 years. Critics like Pauline Kael, Roger Ebert, Owen Gleibermann, and the aforementioned A.O Scott, among others, no longer have the cultural impact they once did, not just because two of them are deceased, but rather due to the completely ridiculous way social media has taken over and allowed everyone to broadcast an opinion no matter how unmoored from any valid methodology or cultural context, so the remaining two might as well be dead as their craft has essentially been overtaken by white noise. I say this as someone who was a doctoral candidate in critical film theory and history 30 plus years ago. There's an even greater disconnect between mass media criticism and academic criticism wherein most critics today have never cracked the page on either Bogdonovich or Truffaut who were both film critics before they were filmmakers. If you haven't read David Bordwell's Film Art, who was my academic advisor when I was in grad school, you can't even begin to be taken seriously about film criticism. I think that should be the starting point if you're going to produce film criticism.

@duhduh666

7 ай бұрын

Would you agree it’s a reflection on what is being released theatrically. I came to the States in the 90s and the variety of genres, subjects of films was better. I cancelled all of the streaming services I had two months ago. And it’s very apparent. I don’t care for superhero movies, action movies I’m very picky. My gratitude is horror. One genre that is doing well. What about movie length? It befuddles me, Bollywood movies are getting shorter and we have the opposite trend here.

I didn't know who Sam Levinson is so I looked him up and I have heard of none of these movies. I have heard of Paul Verhoeven's Benedetta, though! Take heart Paul!

This is a great discussion. I have been waiting for such a discussion. My beef with film critics is that they don’t get resonance. They don’t understand what resonates with me. I value “cinema” but sometime I just want to see a movie. Another point, which you made, they are not objective and their lack of objectivity can effect the way a film is received.

@redlord4321

9 ай бұрын

films are art and art isent objective

It's funny that you mention the reaction of the Marvel movie fandom to criticism. My experience with the Marvel comics fandom is that they're very open about certain writers doing a bad job, and have strong preferences for certain continuities over others.

@playdischord1791

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, when it comes to fandom in comics and other stuff, it’s easy to piss off a large number of fans and for them to make it know which has it’s own blessings and curses.

I love Broey!!!!!!

I lost power for 6+ hours on a Wednesday a couple of weeks ago. It was a hot and humid day. I couldn’t work, so I did something I’ve never done, before. I went to see Barbie - all by myself and loved the air conditioning - not gonna lie! I hadn’t been to a movie since before March 2020. But it was so wonderful to have the full immersion and put my phone down for 2 hours, gorge on popcorn and enjoy a movie. I agree, Barbie does a lot of telling rather than showing, but it is a satire and unfortunately, it’s a topic that sort of needs to be spelled out in absurd, explicit details - like Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal. We’re not making men second class citizens any more than we are eating babies. The power was still out after the movie, but the power crew was in my yard fixing it. Seems a neighbor stuck a backhoe in the ground to dig a pool and hit a power line, blowing the transformer to the block. I couldn’t be more thrilled to ditch work for an afternoon for a cinematic excursion.

40:09 .... A lot of sexuality has disappeared in the industry, they substituted the excitation from innuendo and sexual acts with excitement about violence.... a lot of prudish decisions has been made over the years....

Holy fucking vocal fry, Batman!

@FoamGoddess

9 ай бұрын

It made it hard to listen, for me. But Max’s voice is super smooth and nice to listen to.

@howardquivers8851

9 ай бұрын

I was watching family feud and internet movie reviewer was the number 1 answer for the question name a profession where someone is gonna be afflicted with vocal fry. Calling criticism of stupid fucking bullshit like this as antiintellectual makes me laugh. Sigh these aren't the first dummies trying hard to make what they do as intellectual. This is big bang theory is a smart show plus some typical critics trying to validate thier own existence with major dunning Kruger effect cuz she gotta be dumb af and not know it and to be so pleased with herself talking about herself and content as intellectual.

@SuffertheFool

9 ай бұрын

@FoamGoddess yeah, I tapped out.

@landbanana

9 ай бұрын

Ew yeah vocal fry, that thing women and gay men predominantly have... definitely so insufferable it's worth dismissing whatever they have to say lol

@SuffertheFool

9 ай бұрын

You added all that in your head.@@landbanana

I’m so happy you had Maia on PSA. She’s thoughtful and great and I’ve been watching her on Broey Deschanel and listening to her podcast Rehash (with Hannah) for some time. I’m glad she brought up Lindsay Ellis as the pioneer she is.

Greatest ever movie reviewer imho. Mark kermode uk. Elevated the review to art…and nobody knows him 😂😂 in the game for 40 years too. What a world

Hi! Amateur movie critic here. I criticize film because I secretly want to make them but don’t know how. I think most movie critics would say the same if they were honest w/ themselves. Creation is freedom to be a critic is a prison.

There's certainly a place for film nerds to nerd out about film, but that's just not for me. There's a time and place for intellectualism, but when I go to the movies I just want to relax and enjoy a storyteller tell me a story. What art makes me feel is always going to be more important to me that what it makes me think. I just can't see myself ever reading/watching a film critic again. From the algorithms all the way to the NYT editors, want and push forward polarized, exaggerated, or decisive opinions, which is always in contrast with the fact that most movies and TV shows are *just fine*. I don't need my expectations set unreasonably high going into a movie, nor do I want to be angered or upset about a movie, when if I actually go see it without reading any of the discourse or reviews I would mostly likely come to the opinion that it was *just fine*. Something I'd like to add based on AO Scott's piece or Maia Wyman's criticisms at 54:00 of this video. You can say whatever you'd like about a movie. Positive, negative, or otherwise. *Just as* people can say whatever they'd like about your review. Positive, negative or otherwise. Critics are not above criticism for the work they produce, anymore than the movies they criticize are.

@playdischord1791

9 ай бұрын

Yeah, just as long as nobody takes it too far and makes it personal which is the main point.

KyleKallgrenBHH makes very interesting observations about some obscure movies. I find his opinions fascinating.

Where’s the pod????? Hurry Tf up!

We are in a period of very boring art right now. And I don't know if it's because of the loud voices on the internet or because of monetary decisions, but either way, it's quite annoying.

a lot of "The post modernization of the new age lateralization and conceptualism of frank discussions leads to a real sense of disenfranchisement within the zeitgeist of the art nouveau revolution." in this discussion. You can not like something and not have to take 20 minutes to justify it. And it's not special to not like something a lot of other people liked, that's Film Critic 101. lmao

I feel like there is a lot of mealy mouthed hair splitting here. An interesting conversation but a lot of it happening on a high horse lol

@KrisBryant99

3 ай бұрын

Broey was always kind of stupid and she assumes using big words make her smart when they don't.

I agree with Justin Chang, but I do also think a lot of viewers are idiots, so I can see both sides of that.

The discussion reaches waaaay back to the primitive 1960s. If you adjust binoculars to take in the 1910s, ‘20s, ‘30s, ‘40s, & ‘50s, the context changes. Think “pre-code” 1930s, for instance. Recall Hedda Hopper & Louella Parsons creating alternate realities that actors (who are actual, live humans) were expected to live in, not to mention the controls imposed by studio bosses. Authoritarian overreach. In the good(?) old days, a movie review’s primary function was economic - giving folks a heads-up re where/whether to spend their money. Now, you can yearn to be carried away from the crushing demands of your boss, spouse, creditors, only to find yourself caught in the crossfire between intellectual analysis & anti-intellectual rancor. Which makes bird-watching a more attractive alternative.

Ask your friends who have similar tastes. Not strangers in print or on Tiktok who have no more qualifications to judge film, television, music etcetera than a bum off the streets of San Fran.

@princessjello

9 ай бұрын

What??? Your friends have no qualifications either. What is the difference aside from your very obvious disgust towards critics

@richardwilliams5387

9 ай бұрын

@@princessjello I specifically said friends with the same taste. Not that they had qualifications (there's no such thing regarding critique) Are you telling me you don't value your friends opinion more than critics? And it's not disgust, that's reductive. I was objectively stating they evaluate things on taste. Like anyone else. There's no movie critic degrees.

The only question should be why do people think critics and influencers are worth listening to.

Toxic fandom is a part of any franchase. However IMO one of the biggest disconnects is critics will often fundamentally misunderstand a movie. Not every high-brow film with intricate plot and excellent writing is good. And conversely, some of the best movies are formulaic - where they retell a story that we've seen 100 times before. Even Movies within the same genre won't all fit in the same lane, they're trying to accomplish different things. You can't compare apples and oranges and complain they're different.

Well, you can thank the dudebros and 'PickUp artists' who worship at the penis shaped alter of Tyler Durden for distracting from what Fight Club's central message should have been.

11:29 😅😅😅😅 anti intellectualism has years in the culture, the promotion and elevation of "my right" to be ignorant and that my ignorance is as valuable as experts knowledge is an everyday occurrence on line.... that is not new..... 😅😅😅😅

I actually would disagree and argue that most people aren't able to form a cogent/useful criticism of a 'serious' movie. Could they with training? Probably, but by that logic anyone could be a doctor given enough preparation and personal effort, most people can't think critically until they are well into adulthood (maybe I'm just really stupid and it took me too long to achieve actual critical thought?), it's not easy to do and it requires to you stop leaning on the provided knowledge of your education... and you have to actually have an education (and to have understood it sufficiently) to grow beyond said education, it's very hard to understand what critical theory is/how it works and is applied without significant formal education. I'm sure plenty of people who pass courses on critical theory don't end up grasping it well enough to be a functional critic, so I think it's very hard for someone who hasn't had that opportunity to be a critic. I have the opposite opinion of Pulp Fiction, I can't stand the director anymore. I get huge creep vibes from him and his work, and I've heard he's not a pleasant director to work with... I think there are varying reports, but that's what you'd expect, everyone has people they are nice to and powerful people often like to have people they can treat poorly. It's dangerous to make actual critiques of the powerful, so we usually get stuff that's semi-aspirational like Succession, where being a rich asshole is presented as a mixed bag rather than as a purely revolting thing, people need to be taught that hoarding wealth is a bad thing, certainly not the trait to be admired above all other things!

@insertnamehere5602

9 ай бұрын

I think there's a big difference between thinking Pulp Fiction is bad and thinking Tarantino is a creep. I've really lost interest in him and seeing his new releases over the years, but some of his movies were major influences on me getting into film. Pulp Fiction is still a masterpiece despite having some major flaws.

42:00 It seems like all movies made for adults are meant to provoke us and show us our ugly side. I really wish there were more movies that were about escapism and telling an imaginative story. I guess I am losing patience with all movies being geared toward provoking viewers. There should be some balance.

Opinions are like aholes. Everybody’s got one.

I love Crooked Media content, but please make Offline, well, offline. This was entirely about movies, KZread, and TikTok. Meanwhile, Tim Miller is interviewing the House Representative of Washington and talking about rural communities and the issues that matter to them. That's offline. Please stop with the Twitter, KZread, and Tiktok discussions on a podcast called Offline.

@kennybarber6771

9 ай бұрын

P.s. still love you Jon, Max, and the Crooked team.

@playdischord1791

9 ай бұрын

I mean, the other main podcasts like PSA (and minis like “The Wilderness”) are more geared towards that stuff. “Offline” despite the name is more about how online issues can affect daily life and how to cope with that. Would be interesting though to have an episode about what issues are underrepresented online.

“Red Flag Movies?!” The only only list those belong on is the best films of a generation. The only “Red Flag” is listening to someone who has such a strong opinion on a list of films that she’s never seen, because she wasn’t alive or was still in diapers. If you claim to like films but then write off all the films by legendary directors like Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, and David Fincher because of some idiotic nonsense reason-it’s not the films, it’s you. Anyone with a world view so screwed up that they go so far beyond saying “I don’t like those films, because it makes me uncomfortable watching films with complex plots lines, deeply flawed characters, and profane language, because I don’t immediately understand what I saw or know how I feel about it-which is why I prefer to watch musicals or films by Disney or Pixar.” At least that would be an honest opinion, and it’s OK if you don’t like a movie. When I took a film class in college, we watched “It Happened One Night” and “Citizen Kane,” and some other less memorable films I can’t even recall, but those were the two best films from that era, and I still didn’t like them. I was able to appreciate how innovative Citizen Kane was, because the camera work and composition of every shot was more in line with what we now see in every film-but I’m never gonna watch it again, because the story didn’t grab me, and the pacing in films back then just sucked, but compared to the crap I didn’t even bother to remember it was better. It Happened One Night had a slightly more interesting story, but it was shot like an older film that came before Citizen Kane, so it looked like garbage by comparison, and in both cases the acting wasn’t good because it was that crap that people used to do before Marlon Brando came along and introduced the American moviegoers to the Russian school of acting. I also didn’t like the Russian films we watched either, but it was about learning about how to watch and appreciate films, and I see why those were important, as were the list of films and their directors that made it to that list of films she mentioned. I realize that she wasn’t mentioning a specific list or video as that example, but there are people out there making them, and I don’t think anyone should listen to, or even humor such vapid commentary from some ignorant little girls that are infected with feminist brain rot because they jacked directly into TikTok for years-and it’s completely warped their world view. I’m glad the this young lady is at least not the one spreading that kind of nonsense to impressionable young women who can’t seem to think on their own anymore, and that should be scary. I get why she might not think Pulp Fiction aged well, but that film was extremely edgy at the time it was released too, and it remained edgy for all the same reasons from then until now. Nothing in that film has become any more problematic than it ever was, but these aren’t necessarily people we’re even supposed to like. They’re a bunch of criminals and Tarantino’s character was the one saying those lines to Sam Jackson’s character, because I don’t think anyone else is would’ve had the balls to do it, but it made you immediately fucking hate that character and sympathize with Sam Jackson and John Travolta’s characters, because if you didn’t hate that guy, you’d logically think they were just maniacs for doing what they did, and you wouldn’t care about what happens to them. Films are supposed to make you think or feel something, and uncomfortable, shocked or surprised make the list of acceptable feelings-but anyone judging those films or the people who like them negatively need to fuck right off.

how is this even a debate. sellouts don't know they're sellouts?

Traditional Critics brought this on themselves, when they sold out their soul to the studios,.free tickets, free money and of course free popcorns. Every review they gave lately was fully paid. Now when the social media is doing the same, they got bitchy about it now that their gravy fountain stopped working

Sorry, the "um"s with the fake lower grovelling voice has me elsewhere, dueshemel. May be first time to 'no thanks' as I even check out former President

Is it just me or is her "vocal fry" really irritating? I can't imagine watch her videos and having to listen to her voice at length. 😞

@Chai22

9 ай бұрын

Not just you. I love Max, and Maia sounds like she's worth listening to, as well. Just could not. To think people *cultivate* that sound.