i think Psudomech would make more sense as a name as they are essentially mini or half mechs.

@JeanLucCaptain

3 жыл бұрын

AH A NEW HEART TO ADD TO MY COLLECTION!

@thosewhocando

4 ай бұрын

Yeah. I would think industrial mechs would be closer a “protomech” than these guys.

I absolutely loved these when they were released! I enjoyed the ancient monster aesthetic they chose rather than just pointlessly copying battlemech designs. I wish we would see a resurgence of them in the clans still left in the inner sphere. Preferably from the Hell's Horses touman.

For the 40k fans, Protomechs are the equivalent of a Drednaught, Invictor Warsuit, Dreadknight or Armiger-class Knight.

@samsonsteinreis9660

3 жыл бұрын

If Dreadnoughts were armored with paper, then yes.^^

@Lightman0359

3 жыл бұрын

@@samsonsteinreis9660 I meant more in size and battlefield role, continuing the analogy, full-sized knights are light mechs, scout titans medium, battle = heavy, and Emperor Titans are Assault Mechs. I'm not saying a Gorgon Protomech is the EQUAL to a Casterferum Dreadnaught or an Atlas IIC is the equal to an Imperator. Instead that the Gorgon is to the Atlas in the Battletech Universe what the Casterferum is to the Imperator in 40k. In both cases the smaller is 1 round of shooting [at worst] in exchange for a papercut [at worst]. Along these lines a Lascannon is a Medium Laser an Earthshaker Cannon is a Long Tom and a Space Marine is an Elemental. following the above example: Marines body guardsmen and get bodied by Dreds the same way as elementals to Infantry and Protomechs.

@samsonsteinreis9660

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lightman0359 :D :D :D You made my day, buddy ! :D :D :D

@Lightman0359

3 жыл бұрын

@@samsonsteinreis9660 I used to run a D20 based "sci-fi soup" campaign using Star Wars Saga, Babylon 5 D20, StarGate D20, Farscape D20, and D20 future as my hybrid base. My rosetta stone for damage conversions: the humble Medium Laser Cannon. In B5 and Star Wars they do the same amount of damage so in exotic systems [like battletech, Star Trek Fasa or 40k] I find the Equivalent and can scale the weapons to that. Still working on scaling 40k fairly, but using Battlefleet Gothic and Babylin-5 A Call to arms [which uses a similar d6 system] I am figuring out scaling. Lance Batteries are roughly the equivalent to Battletech Naval Lasers and Star Wars Turbolasers [although turbolasers, being non-beam energy weapons function more like pulse lasers or macro-batteries]. Heavy Lances are the equal to Babylon-5 Minbari Neutron Lasers and Stargate Asgard Beams. The Phaser cannon on the 3 nacelle enterprise-D from the last episode of TNG is a light lance.

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comparison.

The battle value to cost ratio is quite competitive. But is manpower intensive. Additionally, they can’t take advantage of urban terrain. Their true strength is covering terrain. For a group of five, you can out fight any clan medium mech.

I guess now we know how the Knight suits started developing back in the dark age of technology...

I could see the IS useing the tech to make a sort of ultralight mech. They would probably be bigger than most protomechs. But smaller than a light mech. Maybe a sort of walking and maneuverable light tank that can move through the same areas as a proto. But is more durable to make up for being less maneuverable than a regular proto.

Wow, these things really don't look like they come from the same universe as the battle mechs. More like a crossover.

@blingbling574

2 жыл бұрын

There capabilities fill a niche or gap.

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

it may be because of how different piloting one is to a normal mech: a typical battlemech is operated like a vehicle that can use a few of your thoughts here and there as well as send limited feedback. protomechs? while driving one, you feel like the protomech IS your actual body completely, to the pont the experience often ends up addicting to the pilots and some even considers they arent themselves out of a protomech. That may explain the far more organic, monster-themed design

@williamchamberlain2263

10 күн бұрын

Digimon tie-in

Also - that's not how surface-area to volume ratios work : these things have proportionally _more_ surface area than stockier battlemechs, especially the protomechs with all the daft horns and wings and other ornamental accoutrements. Any weapon with a blast, fragmentation, or concussive effect is going to get through the thin, _thin_ armor and bend and jam those narrow joints. So thats AC5+, LRM, SRM.

This strangely reminds me of the titans from Titanfall. just the look and the design and even where the pilot is supposed to be driving.

It seems logical to mention, that Word of Blake found a way to skip the problem with pilots and their need to get out. If I remember correctly, blakists used invalid mechwarriors and integrated them into their version of protomechs. So naturally blakists protomechs were born to kill. But looking back at modern technology, there must be a great breakthrough in cybertech. I mean to control protos remotely. Not from orbit, but in range of 100-200 km. This would be an interesting idea for brand new MechWarrior game: all we know and love from MechWarrior series, combined with MechCommander dilogy control. To be more specific, you land a group of mechs (lance or two - it is hard to control bigger unit in real time) and control them as in MC missions, but in case of dire need (or simply thrill of the fight) you take direct control of one mech as if you are in its cockpit. But we know, that remnants of FASA or whoever is in charge now will never ever consider this as matter to think over.

During the battles on Huntress, the pilots of Task Force Serpent thought they were facing some form of new 'Super Elemental' when they first ran into Proto's. In the first engagements, the Protos did massive damage compared to their size. One of the other reasons that the IS hasn't adopted Protos, is because of the side effects of the EI Implants. Proto pilots have to take some serious drugs to counteract the effects, or they literally go nuts.( Also the IS doesnt have the Clans aerospace pilot genetic type to pilot the things).

@JeanLucCaptain

3 жыл бұрын

So Protomech pilots are essentially useless elsewhere?

@vanringo

2 жыл бұрын

@@JeanLucCaptain considering they were aerospace pilot sibko washouts they are useless everywhere.

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

@@vanringo originally they were when the science cast needed pilots from somewhere and were essentially working on protomechs in secret, think they are their own phenotype derived from pilots now or pilots that decided to go on protomechs.

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

@@JeanLucCaptain far from it: for the clans its a great way to field something cheaper than a full mech but stronegr than batte armor (remember the clans arent too fond of regular vehicles, protomechs are essentially a replacement for them) as for the sphere, they showed interest in them, but gave up both because protomech strain even the clan's ability to make compact equipment (so inner sphere tech would really struggle to make something that small), and because pilots are a real issue, needing both to be physically diminutive and have enhanced imaging implants (the former would need pilots to be children or early teens, meaning after a few years you lose your pilot just from it growing up besides the concern of child soldiers, and the latter something the sphere also gave up on because of the irreversible brain damage extended use invariably causes, something the clans dont care about as by the time it kicks in the soldier is usualy considered too old for proper service anyway). As metioned, only the Word of Blake went for protomechs in the sphere, not caring about the issues of enhanced imaging and solving the size issues by straight up removing limbs from protomech operators/taking emputees, and not bothering to ever take them out of the protomech, which saves space (just seal the guy in and dont bother with a hatch)

Hello Grim. Although I never played proto-mechs (they were developed after I had ceased playing), I can see the reasons for their introduction and use. Had I been around during that time, I would have fielded a fair number of limited designs in my battles with my friends. I agree that proto-mechs sit between battle armor and battlemechs. Even though I have never played them, I can see where proto-mechs would be ideal for hunting down battle armor suits, and ambushing actual Mechs. It also seems to me that Proto-Mechs would also make almost ideal scouting units, and deep penetration raiders if they have an all energy weapons set up. The real limits here, would be the availability of Tech and Resources to built them. Finding pilots and training them would be a distant second priority to obtaining the technical know how, blueprints, design schematics, and resources to construct the units. I know that the Major Houses never really thought much of the Proto-Mechs. But I can easily see Mercenaries moving the heavens and earth to obtain the above knowledge and resources. Being only around a tenth of the size and weight of a Mech, your standard Union Class drop ship would be able to carry a LOT of proto-mechs to drop on some unsuspecting foe's forces. I can even imagine that Combined Arms units of Proto-Mechs and Vehicles would do a LOT of damage on a planetary raid. I guess I am going to have to read up on Proto-Mechs now, and see if some of my ideas actually hold water. Keep making your videos Grim. They are informative, well thought out, and interesting. Even to those of us that are now part of the 'Grey Legions'. spoken Frank-ly

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the input, Frank :)

Really enjoyed the protomechs, they seemed like a natural progression in the development of the tech in-universe. It was around this time I stopped focusing the on the series too, my interesting petering out sometime between Clan Smoke Jaguar's destruction, the FedCom Civil War, and the Jihad. Couldn't take anymore Davion plot armor :D

You madman, you're actually covering these things

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

They're quite a meaty topic.

I really like the idea of protomechs and would have loved to see an inner Sphere take on them.

@Phil-D83

3 жыл бұрын

I remember something similar in the 90s cartoon. Little white ones

@vanringo

2 жыл бұрын

@@Phil-D83 those were not protomechs. Those were Inner Sphere battle armor. Their answer to elementals.

@Phil-D83

2 жыл бұрын

@@vanringo 😅

Never had a chance to use Protomechs. I only used elemental sparingly to be honest. But I can see the potential of these units and the remind me of the Mechforce UK ultralight mechs like the Sheepdog. Small, fast, and sneaky.

I would love to see how far I could launch one with my BRZ-A3 Breserker.

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

Pretty far probably.

Hello Grim. I did have another thought in relation to ProtoMechs. In the Inner Sphere, there are plenty of worlds with 'below average' height populations. Populations that average out to heights of 4'4", to 5'4" (four foot four inches, to five feet four inches). Most of these populations are Asian in origin, although I would imagine that there are several worlds that were populated by other genetic legacy lines, like Bolivia, Peru, Sri Lanka, and others. Such people would easily fit into ProtoMechs. Training would be provided with some effort, since most of these worlds would be on the lower tech end. It's the requirement for implanted Enhanced Imaging circuitry that would be the major monkey wrench in the works though. Even so, I could see a semi-wealthy Mercenary Unit hiring such people for their ProtoMech unit pilots. Contract terms would be fairly long to pay the Merc Unit back for the surgery and tech needed. But those receiving the tech would be coming from worlds where they would otherwise be hired as 'throw away' Infantry, or inexpensive labor forces. To be a ProtoMech Pilot would be a MAJOR increase in status, even if their Contract Term of Employment was a minimum of 10 years! There is a small problem with Enhanced Imaging. Other than the obvious one were it drives the pilot insane... and that is where the pilot becomes so enthralled with the virtual world of their suit's imaging, they eventually refuse to leave the cockpit and disconnect from their ProtoMech. I think this last problem could be solved utilizing deep hypnotic suggestion in the pilot's training, with 'refresher' application of the hypnosis commands every so often. I think that this problem would arise due to the Napoleon Complex... Where a short person, or a weak person, comes to identify with the ProtoMech's power and seeming invulnerability to the point they give up the 'real world' for their enhanced one. Just some thoughts, Speaking Frank-ly

@GrimDarkNarrator

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the addendums, Frank!

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

the pilot needs not only be sal, but also skinny; the sphere considered children and pre-teens for a while as candidates for protomech pilots.. but even with suitable pilots, they would need enhanced imaging implants, a technology the sphere isnt really willing to use because of the brain damage it causes after years of use. Only the Word of Blake was crazy enough to consider it worth it... and solved the size issue by having emputees put inside protomechs, and saved extra space by not bothering to make a way for the pilot to get out of the machine...

Thanks for the vid sir.👍🏼👍🏼

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome.

The big disadvantage for Proto Mechs is their low speed Like battle armor they can only be deployed in certain areas otherwise a battlemech will use its Superior speed and heavy weaponry to obliterate them

@hraughr

2 жыл бұрын

Speed is comparable to mechs, Chrysaor 6tons, 6/9 speed and 4 ER Micro Lasers make it formidable against pretty much any foe for the cost, you'd get 20 of these guys for one Timberwolf with Cbills left to spare for a decent retirement. Though between a protomechs and an elemental point there is where the choice lies. Because protomechs can't scout as well as light mechs, nor can they take or put out damage like elementals their role is very niche at best.

I don’t remember proto-mechs but those elementals were bothersome when playing mechwarrior 3.

@retrosquadchannel2.050

2 жыл бұрын

In MechWarrior 3 there were none protomechs. And you were fighting on Tranquil during Great Refusal in 3060, not on Huntress in 3058.

good to see your doing BT stuff just to bad youtube hides it even when subbed

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

That is unfortunate :(

Are you really telling me that Capellans and Draconis wouldn't use young teens as pilots?

And it was at about this time I stopped playing ;(

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

:(

How come I have never heard of these !

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

You have now. And more to come.

Where do the Fenrir ans Kazanuchi heavy battle armor from the Mechwarrior Dark Ages collectable miniatures game stand in relation to proto mechs?

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

I'm afraid I don't know.

@seankane8628

3 жыл бұрын

Ok

@theRemyLuna

2 жыл бұрын

Those two battle armor(BA) from what I have seen in source books, claim they weigh in around 2 tons. So these two are on the highest end of BA.

Now im wondering if these are in BTA….

Allmost as "much" armor as a light mech ? They must die like flys on the field. Even infantry weapons are deadly for them. Nope, nothing for me. Regular infantry, tanks and hovervehicles are far more costefficient, numerous and usefull for holding ground. And you dont need a "special breed" of pilots. But thanks for this cool video, GDN. :)

@liljenborg2517

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. You'd be better off making a 10 or 15 ton jeep or, instead of mounting those ultra-light lasers and machine guns onto an expensive frame only a few (very drugged up) people could pilot, finding ways to make those ultra-light weapons portable for an infantry platoon or workable for powered battle armor or (if you've got the money) a bunch of 20-ton light mechs with all the new post-Helm tech to make them faster, better armed, and better armored.

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

I mostly agree. But reading on the actual designs I'll present soon, while they were obviously easy to kill for battlemechs, they were not that vulnerable to basic infantry.

@jamesricker3997

2 жыл бұрын

That would be logical How the Clans view things a few Elite Warriors in an expensive machine is a culturally acceptable option, with the exception of Clan Hell's Horses

Nice video. But congratulations, they've made a Heavy Gear. And these things the worst of both worlds: Just big enough to be threat to a mech (and thus a target) and none of the advantages of Infantry or elementals (enter buildings or rough terrain)

@GrimDarkNarrator

4 ай бұрын

Thanks.

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

they are still small enough use cover a mech couldnt use, are much more mobile than elementals in terms of speed, and come in much greater numbers than full mechs thanks to their cheap cost. I feel theya re great at filling the hole left by the clans distaste for ground vehicles. Also they can enter buildings including going upstairs, though they have to smash their way in a fair bit (represented in game by them being able to follow infantry rules in buildings though with higher cost and dealing slight damage to the building in the process)

👍

More my style.

Aftwr like a damned thousand years youd think the inner sphere could have reversed engineer (edit:spelling) better

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

true! but even then the pilots would be an issue. Overall the sphere gave up on the idea of protomechs altogether.

Procyons please i do like my Coyote tech

Creepy voice effects.

Coyote: "kai-OH-tee"

@BrutalBeatingByBeans

3 жыл бұрын

Notable though, that a slang word for Coyote in the US mid-west is Kai-Yote, exactly as he pronounced it.

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

I actually heard both ways pronounced in movies/series so I figured they were both universally accepted.

You know something tells me the Clans are big furry fans

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

they all have names based on animals that exist in the setting after all (exception being clan blood spirit). But even then, the majority of protomechs are made to look like monsters instead of animals (orc, minotaur, harpy...)

Protomechs are the clannest thing to ever be clanned. Meaning I hate them.

@GrimDarkNarrator

3 жыл бұрын

There's quite a few of them.

@revenvrake7412

3 жыл бұрын

What about the Quad-Vee then?

@philips.5563

3 жыл бұрын

@@revenvrake7412 nah, those aren't even clannish. Those are just lame.

@jamesricker3997

2 жыл бұрын

I consider them target practice The stockholders of companies that produce in inner sphere large pulse lasers and LBX auto-cannons are thankful for their appearance

battletech have a gay proto mechs?

That's things are so ugly that I prefer to buy a wanzer

@thorveim1174

2 ай бұрын

may be because the art for so many of them is OLD. And were based off of monster designs of the time on top. i ean, look at DnD monster art of the same era and you'll see just why protomechs look bad XD more modern art like the quad procyon look much better in my book

I see why people like them but they seem so out of place in the universe they look like they should be something out of a power rangers show