One last thing I forgot to say was that I would like to thank Lindsay (although she'll probably never see this) for her work on KZread over the years. Her content has meant a lot to many of us and it will be deeply missed. I wish her nothing but the best in her future endeavours. As much as I wish she would come back, I would much rather her prioritise her mental health and wellbeing. Edit: I've spent the last few hours reading everyone's different perspectives and I have to say that I still stand by everything I said in this video. I think my main point here is that she absolutely did not deserve the harassment and I will probably always be upset at people for essentially prompting her to make the decision to quit - we've lost an asset to the online leftist space. This does not mean she's perfect, nor does it mean that she doesn't have things to atone for, the criticism just went overboard to no avail. It achieved nothing. Also (because some people seem to be trying me like this is a changing room) I will NOT hear any nonsense that I am defending a white woman over marginalized people. ME? MOI? ALLYUH EVER SEE MY VIDEOS YET? Ma'am. I have several videos where I have called out white nonsense (especially by white women) on this channel, and I'm probably going to have more at some point because white women are going to keep white womening. For reference, go look at my most watched videos. I am not even going to talk about whether or not I have promoted or defended authors and creators of colour as well as queer authors and creators - my content on this channel and on my bookstagram will speak for itself. Allyuh have a blessed one and take it easy eh. Unless necessary, I'm not going to bring up Lindsay Ellis on this channel again outside of mentioning the Noumena series - where I will be talking about the books, not her. But I still stand by what I said. Saajid.

@JashanaC

2 жыл бұрын

I legit cackled for a second that anyone would try to say you are defending a white woman over marginalized people. lol. Wut

@musaho

2 жыл бұрын

@@JashanaC people are out here acting like I, Saajid of Books are my Social Life, would kiss up to a white woman and not defend a person of colour with the same vigour. I-

i didn’t even know who this woman was prior to this video, but i’m half asian (east and south-east asian, so i feel like i can comment on raya the last dragon as it exhibited my culture, and the last airbender) and i can agree her tweet was not racist and it’s actually amusing to me that people thought it was because lmao what??? people are just delusional sometimes and want to feel validated for being fake ass social justice warriors. there are actual issues affecting marginalised communities but really helping people takes time but cancelling someone is just easier and quicker for them.

The Lindsay issue really felt like it was an overblown distraction. Asian people were facing a lot of problems around that time (actually even way before that) and the issue terminally-online people could address (many of them aren't even Asian or are affected by Asian hate) was a fricking tweet lmao. The way Westernized (social) media handles social justice is still individualistic and there are still not much collectivism that could be seen. People would rather obsess over tearing down individuals than banding together and tearing down systems that matter more. But then again, qrts and retweets are way easier to gain than long term goals lol

All very valid points. There is a difference between holding people accountable and measuring that against their "crimes". But it really does look like people are out to destroy lives, which is appalling to see. In the case of Lindsay Ellis, that was just a snowball cluster that evolved into something out of control. Very unnecessary and very shameful.

Yes, Lindsey is gone, but Prager-u and Steven Crowder still on the internets spreading REAL hate.

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

and that's the suckish thing

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. When you actually step back and look at why she was getting so much hate, it’s really insane. The idea that she’s getting this much hate to compare one movie to a TV show that has very similar plot structures it’s just very strange. And it’s sad. I know how I was 10-20 years ago, and I am a totally different person now. So the idea that the mistakes that I made whether minor or major in the past, could be a reflection of who I am today is really scary. There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of good faith in people‘s ability to grow.

"Ya'll should teach yogo with the amount of stretching you do" 🤣🤣🤣🤣

i just watched a Black Mirror episode about cancel culture and "the most hated person". it was.... very eery but very very real. it's sickening how people jump on bandwagons to negatively affect real humans. are these really your biggest enemies? in this case, is cancelling someone who said something slightly "wrong" the BEST thing you can do to end asian hate?? also, the people "cancelling" someone for hate against a certain group are so often NOT part of that group, from what I see. for example, it's white cis people jumping in "standing up" for other groups, but like... these aren't the big issues. sigh... thank you for sharing all your thoughts, saajid! ✨

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dana! You're right about the fact that many of the people who are trying to 'stand up' for these issues are white people, not poc. There's this desire to be seen as an ally so much so to the point where I think people are more concerned about the optics of allyship and being perceived as one as opposed to actually doing something that materially and ideologically helps a movement. Shutting down someone who slipped up is a really easy way to make yourself feel like you did something to 'help' as opposed to actually helping. It's an ego thing - Lindsay mentioned this in her 'Mask Off' video.

Wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said. The people who dogpiled on Lindsay for such an innocuous comment and escalated the situation to something astronomical were clearly coming from a place of spite and resentment towards her. HoneyBunny 허니버니 made a great video on how I feel about the situation because we've lost a great voice for change just because a number of people thought it was fun to harass and abuse someone who wasn't even deserving of the vast majority of the scorn and vitriol they spewed.

“The littlest things that could be problematized” feels SO ACCURATE. 😕😕😕

I used to wait tables and one time there was a woman, her husband and her friend. They were all in their 60’s. She ordered bacon and eggs. Her eggs came out more runny than she liked. I told her we could make new one more well done. She said no. Every time I went back to ask if they were ok, the husband and the friend said ok. SHE would say something like wish I had good eggs. Would not just shut up about it. At that point I hoped her husband and the friend were boning behind her back. But sometimes an apology and a willingness to fix just isn’t enough for these people. I miss your book videos and hope you’re doing well in school.

your hair looks great, saajid ✨

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, thanks I think I needed that :)

You all should teach yoga with the amount of stretching you do 😂🤣🤣🤣 sorry, that’s so good I’m pinching it! As regards these awful people, I’m praying for karma

Very well said! It's crazy that we cannot be flawed human beings on the internet. We do or say one wrong thing, and that's it we must be cancelled. Like, relax, we're human, we can make mistakes and take actions to apologise and make up for those mistakes. If it's repeated bad behaviour and you never do anything to apologise or change, that's different. We're also allowed to have differing opinions!!

This video mentioned that Lindsay Ellis did not make overly political content, but I think there is value in videos that express left-leaning sentiments without tackling specific political issues. Not everyone is interested in political videos, and I think that a funny movie review can be a more accessible way for people who are centrists or just less engaged in politics to be exposed to more left-leaning ideas. While a lot of the comments sent to Lindsay Ellis were from left-leaning people taking criticism too far, I also think there was a sizeable number who just jumped on the bandwagon to harass her. It’s like she was just getting dog-piled from both sides. Really sad that she’s not going to be making videos anymore but I hope that leaving is beneficial to her mental health. Great video as always! 👍

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

I agree 100%

Lindsay Ellis's tweet was absolutely blown out of proportion, and she definitely did not deserve the hate she got. However, from what I understand (chiefly from friends of mine), many Asians/Asian Americans are legitimately very tired of Avatar: The Last Airbender constantly being thrown up to them as the best/OG Asian story when its creators weren't even Asian and drew from the same storytelling traditions that Raya's creators drew from (which is probably why they seem similar - for another example, there are tons of "wizard kids go to magic school" stories in the Anglophone world, and J. K. Rowling certainly wasn't the first to use the trope). That's not to say ATLA isn't great - it is! But there's room for more in that vein, especially by Asian creators. I'm saying this not to justify the ridiculous amount of abuse Lindsay faced; I love her content too and am sad that she encountered this degree of harassment. Just adding some perspective on why SOME good faith criticism might have been justified. The way so many trolls used this as an excuse to drag Lindsay through the mud is still inexcusable.

@kailawkamo1568

2 жыл бұрын

From what I've heard, many of her harassers online weren't even Asian

@beanbagbooks

2 жыл бұрын

@@kailawkamo1568 definitely, most of the ones who were truly awful to her weren't. From what my friend who followed the situation more closely said, there were several Asian people who were more like "hey that's not really fair of you to say that" but they were unfortunately covered up by the trolls

Right?!?! Ridiculous.

The thing about people claiming she was saying they're similar because they're both Asian was just wrong because she was comparing the story beats, not cultural inspirations. Xiran Zhao uploaded a video recently where a few South East Asians actually talk about their opinions on Lindsay and Raya, it's very good if you haven't seen it. I'll always say that I don't like platform's like Twitter because it screenshots mistakes that you can almost never move past no matter how you've proved that you've changed. The internet demonizes nuance and change to an extent where it's ridiculous. People who care so badly about these issues end up hunting each other and in the end all that's left is that the number of people who speak about these problems are diminished. As a side note I think there's also a difference between someone being racist v.s them being ignorant. Something can appear as racist because it comes from a place of ignorance but there's a difference between being a raging racist than making a mistake cause you're not well informed/don't understand racial sensitivity on a specific topic.

@toleble7301

2 жыл бұрын

The Sasha bit killed me tho LMAO 🤣

You made some really good points in this video and another thing I also wanted to mention is such an example of someone who has learned from their previous behaviour and is now acting like and ally, is that it discourages other people from trying to be good allys. Which is hard. Not as hard as not having white privilege, but not easy nonetheless.

I think a lot of people also feel this need to be THE ONE to call someone out (and by extension show that they're better) to the point where they don't consider if others (and in the cases of people speaking from privilege and lack of experience, if others more qualified) have already said the same thing. If there's already been a discussion or explanation and the person called out seems to have taken that in or to be considering it there is no need for endless more to join in and repeat it. (Twitter is so badly designed for this too which isn't helping.) Anyway, good rant! I've watched quite a bit on your channel (but don't really comment) and just want to say thank you for your work.

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it's very much a self serving egotistical thing for some. Thanks for your comment and support!

People like to be cruel when they perceive it’s for the good cause.

People seem to really love a dog pile / "gotcha" / "hey everybody, come see how woke I am" moment and I am tiiiiiiired of it good god. I've been guilty of it to some degree in the past (getting riled up & feeling the need to put in my two cents), but I feel like I quickly realized how needless it almost always is. And how incredibly unproductive. Sometimes it can be warranted, sure (lol Rachel Marie). But more often than not it ends up just being a crap ton of people all repeating the same sentiments, wanting to get in their opinion and yell at someone publicly and look like a good lil woke warrior or whatever (coming from a quite liberal person - as you know, haha). The incessant guilt-trip/public shaming subtweets (or direct tweets) I see on book twitter constantly are what made me realllyyy pull back and delete my old twitter. I saw someone subtweeting/shaming someone for having books on their shelves by Sam Sykes (accused of sexual... harassment? Assault?). When I brought up to them (privately, as I was on friendly terms with them at the time) that they themselves have Brandon Sanderson books on their shelves & that many ppl still say he is homophobic and terrible, this person brought out all their personal justifications for feeling okay still reading him. And I was like, "So you admit it? You think your opinions matter more than everyone else's personal boundaries/opinions on what is acceptable/problematic?" lol. I just---wut. Like, I'm not saying you have to LIKE that someone still reads xyz author... but the public shaming over it just... what is this doing to progress any marginalized communities? Wow geeze apparently I had THOUGHTS lol sorry for the novel.

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, and I have been there too. We have to work on finding ways to encourage others in our communities (liberal and leftist communities) to be critical in a way that is productive. We also have to learn what kind of response and what level of outrage is appropriate for different infractions.

@JashanaC

2 жыл бұрын

@@booksaremysociallife Agreeeee. I've wanted to do a discussion about this for a hot minute, but I'm always like, "Does my voice need to be heard on this?" lol. I'm also not very eloquent. I start rambling & then make little to no sense. Maybe I'll just post a video that's me going, "Just go watch Saajid's video, linked below. Bye!" 😆

Lindsey Ellis said worse things outside of the Raya comment like making jokes about Harriet Tubman and her former slave owner in Reylo style fanfic

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

I know, she literally addressed and clarified that and more in her 'mask off' video. She's said nothing irrevocably harmful and certainly nothing that warrants harassment and character assassination. I recommend that you go watch that video of hers if you haven't already, it's in the cards.

People just need distraction and somewhere to put their anger and since ppl who do deserve to be run off the internet usually don't go as easy she was perfect target for all that

12:45, 😂😂😂

20:47 saajid rolling back was the best part of the video. change my mind 😤

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

they see me rolling, they hating...

Oh. I heard about this months ago. Or parts of it. Oh no. Oof.

14:18, Schadenfreude

Look at you glowing with that mustache! Eat the gworls up with that face card.

This is very sad. Also an example of cancel culture is so harmful for the society. Don't know the youtuber but I believe it shouldn't have happened 😌

I hadn't heard of this, I never watched Lindsay's content but I wonder if the people who were saying "this is racist against Asian people" are Asian or....white. I know there have been talk in the Black community about white people overstepping and quite literally harassing Black creators or real allies for "being racist" when it seems to be taken out of context or they did make a mistake and apologized for it. I know it's important as a white person to call out racism but I have heard that we as white people def overstep. I think it's important to have a real apology for things people did or said 10 years ago and move on and grow past that, but you're right I think people just want to hate, there might be some people who didn't see the apology or anything but for the most part it just seems that they want to latch onto someone who they don't like for whatever reason and just hate and want to tear themselves down to make themselves feel better. I think there are people out there who don't think that can mess up in your allyship but also I think Myonna Reads said something like "when I wanted to cancel people my intention was for them to delete everything" (she's not in the same place anymore) so I wonder if this is what the haters truly wanted. I mean.. Sasha did a lot more than just forge an authors signature and try to sell it for big bucks so I think she deserved it. But are they really canceled? Because all them still have big channels and people following them lmao and new people who may not know what happened. I personally really truly think that the pandemic has made people become bored (less to do, less going out, etc) so people really started drama on the internet. I mean I think back to the first couple of months of the shutdown in 2020 and all I remember were celebs and influencers trending for people trying to take them down, I know this has been a thing for awhile but I really think the pandemic made all of that worse. The Naomi Novik thing, she very much apologized and said that those racist moments in her book will be taken out for the future books that are published for that particular book, so basically they'll edit those parts out, I mean, I've never read her books but that does seem genuine and I totally get if Black people don't want to give her a chance after that still because that's not my decision as someone affected by her work like that but I do think she was genuine about it. You're right, it is abuse and it seems to me Lindsay really tried to set things straight but with the continued abuse she got maybe she did the right thing by stepping back. I don't know her or watch her but I hope things get better for her with her time off

I like you am very disturbed by the whole situation and think there should be a middle ground. I’m disappointed by the Ellis news too and it came within the same day of another video essayist (that should be to Ellis’ video but algorithm bias against brown creators/subjects is a bitch) taking a break possibly forever (for a diff reason). That all being said I don’t agree with the deplatforming ppl has gone too far over all because there are so many people (including in the book’s community) making outright racist ass content. I think because you too are troubled by this whole situation you want to give everyone grace because one person you know was wronged. I think a LOT of the people that encouraged her to quit and that harassed her peers (including fellow progressive video essayists of color) were people looking to take her “down for years.” Not all though because some people were genuinely upset about things she’s done (even as recent as that Rays tweet that omitted some choice phrasing).

@AlyssaMakesArt

2 жыл бұрын

Like the “what someone said 10 years ago” absolutely matters to me. 10 years ago I was 17 and I regret some stuff but also never called someone a slur or something like that. Not saying you did or Ellis did but that is what I think of when I hear people say that “10 years ago” give me a break attitude. The biggest disconnect between everyone trying to hold each other accountable is that everyone has a different idea of what the “proper” way to handle the situation is and it’s like not a legal system we can all go to if that makes sense.

As someone who's watched a lot of Lindsay's content (and at some point in the past considered myself a fan), I think the situation is... far more complicated than you have presented it here. I don't want to argue with you at all, and as I say, it's complex, but I will say this: her (pay-walled) Patreon message was hard to stomach. Comparing her situation to Isabel Fall's AND Neon Yang's was an awful, awful decision. Isabel Fall is a trans woman who was accused of being a Nazi and harassed off the Internet for writing a story that explored gender, before having a mental breakdown and detransitioning; Neon Yang was one of the people involved in the harassment campaign. Implicitly suggesting that Yang and Fall were equal VICTIMS in that situation, and then equating her own situation with that is unconscionable. Lindsay Ellis is a cis woman who has (as she admits) said and done objectionable things. The situations are not the same, and it was upsetting to see someone who considers herself a progressive making that comparison.

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

Sure, that's a valid point. She can't compare her struggle to those of people who are far more marginalised and underprivileged than her. I think she was more trying to compare the ways in which people will harass someone online when they dislike or misinterpret something that they said or did - but perhaps using that scenario wasn't the best option on her part. She did acknowledge this to some extent in the message though. Either way, I still stand by the points I've made in this video as the video is not about her Patreon message as much is it's about the prior harassment she's faced that has led to her quitting the platform. You're also right in saying that the situation is more complicated - this video is just a rant, me saying what was on the top of my head. It wasn't meant to be a super thorough discussion and that is okay. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

While I understand and concede to your points, I in good conscious cannot and will not ever support Lindsay Ellis as she literally traumatized a close friend of mine a while back, to the point where she dissociated for like 2 hours (my friend wrote a blog post about it a bit ago but IDK if I can link it here). Not to mention Lindsay Ellis also had a habit of blocking Black Star Wars fans who wanted her to address Reylo stans being awful and sh!tty and INCREDIBLY racist to John Boyega after he criticized their ship (I have another friend who wrote about the whole Star Wars fandom racism thing who was threatened and dogpiled on by Reylo stans that tried to get them fired). So, I can't and don't forgive Lindsay Ellis who traumatized my friend, and also could have used her platform to address the racism in the Reylo fandom in support of John Boyega and my friend who wrote about it, but didn't.

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear about your friend. Can you explain how she traumatized them if that's okay?

@mackenziebrynnrap

2 жыл бұрын

@@booksaremysociallife I would love to but I'm afraid I'm not gonna say it well or right. Is there a way I can post her blog link on here or will KZread be an @ss about it? lol

@booksaremysociallife

2 жыл бұрын

Try it. If not, dm me on instagram @musaho_books

@mackenziebrynnrap

2 жыл бұрын

@@booksaremysociallife Or I guess I could copy and paste her blog post here? Or would that be too much? I've apparently forgotten how technology works lol

@mackenziebrynnrap

2 жыл бұрын

The title of the post is "The Story of My Twitter Handle" btw

Apparently she couldn't stand the heat so she left the kitchen. Life goes on.

@annoyedbyyourface

2 жыл бұрын

THIS! I feel bad for her kids because I wouldn't be surprised if trolls pulled them into this *but* I'm not gonna have sympathy for some white lib who "regrets all the work" she's done because is getting the same treatment poc get for simply existing online. That's some weak shit and I don't like weak "allies."

Getting mad at trolls for trolling is you playing yourself and that's exactly what happened here. Not only in this video but also with Ellis. Trolls gonna troll and white libs are gonna white lib; same shit, different day lol.