Do you prefer climbing at high or low cadences? ⚙

@edoardoemiliani

7 ай бұрын

Good evening GCN, I would like to ask you an advice for my all round bike. I want to install the ultegra mechanical 11 v complete groupset on my bike: for you as a combination is it better to have a mid-compact 52-36 with 11-34 cassettes or a compact 50-34 with 11-30 cassette? Thank you very much in advance, if you can motivate it, would be even better.

@ltu42

7 ай бұрын

@@edoardoemiliani Definitely go for a compact, unless you're worried of spinning out the hardest gear. Are you doing 80 km/h descents often? Do you ride in fast bunches on the flat? In these cases a bigger chainring might be useful, otherwise a compact gives you these easier gears without the weight penalty. Another thing to consider: in the 11 speed system, the 11-34 cassette has 2 tooth increments straight from the lowest sprocket: 11-13-15-17..., whereas an 11-30 cassette has 11-12-13-14-15-17..., giving you more gear choices on the flat. I recently got a 11-34 cassette and the larger spacing was very noticeable when riding in a group.

@barneyklingenberg4078

7 ай бұрын

That depends on whether in or outside the saddle.

@barneyklingenberg4078

7 ай бұрын

The 11-34 casette is just more for gravel to be fair. Personally i would rather use an more compact crank (48-31 GRX with the 11-32t casette)@@ltu42

@AussieInJapan

7 ай бұрын

My left knee definitely prefers spinning to win with an 11-46 on my gravel bike

I would like this test done with an average cyclist and a hill that is steeper , maybe even beyond the capabilities of the rider. That’s when the expanded gear ratios will make a huge difference.

@xuchenglin6256

7 ай бұрын

That's when you need an e-bike... try maybe EMBN??...

@pphaneuf

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, there's a minimum cadence that's comfortable to put in a sustained effort, and lower gears might allow doing hills that would just be impractical otherwise!

@chuckrodgers4780

7 ай бұрын

Not into e-bikes , but we are much older riders who still do centuries, but when the climbs exceed 15 % for extended periods a 28 tooth just isn’t enough anymore. 15 years ago we rode 25 tooth cassettes , that just isn’t feasible anymore.

@gcntech

7 ай бұрын

Great idea! We might need to find a willing Amateur ...

@kitka1990

7 ай бұрын

@@gcntech just get me to the UK and I'm up for it!

It seems that this test would be more valuable if done at a higher effort. 100 BPM suggests that 16 minutes at 200W for Alex is quite easy. I'd like to see this test done closer to a threshold level.

@tihohohoho

7 ай бұрын

Yes. Or doing it on a longer climb. Riding at 64 rpm is ok for 15min but what about riding that low cadance for one or 1.5 hours.

@paxundpeace9970

7 ай бұрын

This needs a longer or even multiple longer climbs.

@a1white

7 ай бұрын

Yes i think this needed a steeper climb

@joneaton3366

7 ай бұрын

​@a1white your only 1 right with steeper 😅

@ricodave

5 ай бұрын

So you really want a test to see which system (muscles or lungs/heart) gives up first... might be super hard to test...

A thing you only touched slightly is really steep climbs. The 64 RPM Alex did with the 28T is still somewhat efficient but if you run into really steep climbs and your options are going much too hard and blow or go at a really slow cadence the difference is even bigger I think. Why not do an experiment?

@gcntech

7 ай бұрын

Great idea! We would certainly be keen to jump back into this subject... we'll get searching for a steeper climb 🔎 Are you a fan of the lower climbing gears?

@chrisridesbicycles

7 ай бұрын

@@gcntech Yes! After over 30 years of MTB, it feels like „the roadies finally got the memo“

Hi guys. I've been experimenting along these lines for the last couple of months. My take away is that easier gear /more spin is more aerobic so your energy souce is body fat more than mussle glycogen so is more sustainable, even though my over 70 body needs the occasional stop for a "blow up". After a stop the legs are fine which isn't the case when lower cadence caused the stop. So certainly spin is better. Thats why I need the "granny gear"!

@emmabird9745

7 ай бұрын

@@Stefan_W. Hi, yes my limit used to be about 65 but 80 is achievable, even 95 ubder low load.

@xuchenglin6256

7 ай бұрын

When you get stronger and fitter, it becomes more of a preferential choice rather than "which is better". When I was 200w and 90kg, I have to use the lightest gear and still running out of gear as a result. Later when I become much more stronger, I find that I just care less and less about gears...... Remember Power=Force*RPM, with RPM you can only go so far, from 80 RPM to 100 RPM is only 25% and to 90 RPM is only 12.5% (assume that's still within your cardio capability). That is not "next level" improvement, and you can only use it ONCE. So what if you are looking at 30% 50% 100% improvement? You have no choice but to work on your legs. When you chasing more power, let's say 300w, 330w, 350w, 400w, you can't avoid the legs, since you can't raise your RPM forever. Even though probably you'll be more aerobic capacity limited, but that's just another thing needs to addressed separately.

@space.youtube

7 ай бұрын

"...My take away is that easier gear /more spin is more aerobic so your energy souce is body fat more than mussle glycogen..." sic ??? Let me see if I have this correct, you think aerobic activity is primarily fat fuelled instead of carb fuelled? You better tell 99% of elite endurance athlete, sports scientist and sports nutritionist that rely on constant carb replenishment to achieve success that they're doing it all wrong. 🤣

@emmabird9745

7 ай бұрын

@@space.youtube Sorry to be trying to make it too simple. If you just keep on using body fat you will waste away, of course. Thats where refueling comes in. With aerobic effort the blood supply carries oxygen and carb fuel to the mussles. To use fat, the body turns it into carbs. When you are eating you can short circuit that. Maybe I should have said "primarily blood fueled" but then that can be confusing too. I didn't notice Alex eating in his climb, and I'm not eating in my 30 to 60 minute exercise so where do our bodies get the blood energy? I thought I was a pedant, but I'm not alone.

@emmabird9745

7 ай бұрын

@@xuchenglin6256 I'm sure you're right, thats your zone this and that to train to get better. What the guys seem to be talking about is when you're riding to get somewhere, or to enjoy the scenery or to generally have a ride. Surely not all riding is about training, some of it is about doing the thing you were training for. Isn't that what tgis video is about?

I still run triple chainsets (50/39/26) and 11-32 cassettes on my road bikes so I can tackle any hill or distance I want without straining my 55 year old knees or worrying about if I'm not fit/skinny enough. Needed my lowest gears on Dartmoor today, especially on Widecombe Hill.

@KyriaxWitch

6 ай бұрын

i have an triple 53/39/30 ultegra with an 11-34 slx cassete has 11-12-13 sequence as i loved for run on flats an 30/34 to climb without fear anything.

@packratty

6 ай бұрын

I sill have a 10 speed Ultegra triple from 2008 - wide range, small jumps, and so much less shifting the front since I have it set up so the meaty middle of my range puts me most of the time in the middle ring with a near perfect chainline. On a newer bike with a compact double and similar range, never mind the jumps between ratios, the middle of the range is a crosschained compromise of fiddling with both derailleurs. I miss the road triple.

@KyriaxWitch

6 ай бұрын

@@packratty people is think too much on weight but i think too much on versatility for my needs, because i like to have one bike able for any type of ride. so long time ago a come to conclusion the old triples are only way to go. i dream to buy an fsa SLK triple or that old simano DA triple 7800

I use a 50-34 with a 11-40 It's great having two bail out gears

@barneyklingenberg4078

7 ай бұрын

Sure but i'd hate the spacing between the gears on the flat.

@thiscocks

7 ай бұрын

Mountain bikes dont count

@geralddurkan6966

7 ай бұрын

Same. Handy for Tre cimi etc.

@Arion4062

6 ай бұрын

That’s right, I use 11-34T ten speed and gotta have the 34T for the 10%+ climbs but when doing my sprints, the gap from 13T to 11T feels like a canyon

@derekkuhl

6 ай бұрын

I ride the same in the mountains. Works great and really saves the legs. The spacing on the flats is still fine. I always see to find a gear I like.

52 yrs old, living in Switzerland, with multiple heart stents. Lower cadence = lower HR, which is my objective. A higher cadence (70prm+) just feels unnatural and pushes the HR higher. If anything, its slower for me.

@xosece

7 ай бұрын

while I advocate lower gears, this video has been an eye opener. I mean, the lowest cadence = less strain in your heart. I love to use the lower gears in my MTB but this video is very informative 'cos the idea is to use them at a slower pace. Since I have a 22/30/40 11/34 MTB, after watching this video I might try a nice gravel like, dunno about the model, but it must be 1X with lower gears, something like 38/42, 38/44 or even lowest than that.

@dblissmn

7 ай бұрын

53 and just coming off valve repair surgery; I'm not entirely sure that lower cadence equals lower HR even if it is overall correlated with it; there are many other variables. Eight months out from the surgery, there's nothing quite like pushing a high gear up a hill to spike the heart rate and while the onset is marginally slower than with low gear and high cadence, it takes much longer to recover from the high gear with low cadence interval. You recover faster from the high cadence interval because your muscles aren't as fried as they would be from mashing the bigger gear. So I am in general trying to train myself into a higher cadence over time. Overall, I feel like this video is like only half the exercise you need to do to answer the question!

Get gear ratios that suit you and stop trying to impress your mates. I run a 50-34 chain rings and a 11-32 cassette as that is perfect for me as I live near the blackstairs mountain range.

@nuttycommuter3718

7 ай бұрын

When I built up my bike, I spec’d it with a 52/36 and it quickly became apparent that I wasn’t using the smallest 3-4 cogs so swapped it out for a 50/34 and am much happier. Easier on the hills and am actually using the cassette I paid for

I use 46-30 with 11-34 casette. I am not PRO to ride 50 or even 53 crank, 46 is enough for nonpro rider :D

@thenoodlehunter6828

7 ай бұрын

Funnily enough. I put in a bike chart which calculates speed at cadence. 46x11 @ 100rpm = 52.5km/h, 50x11 @ 91RPM = 52.7km/h, 52x11 @ 88RPM = 52.4km/h This makes me conclude that most recreational road riders could even use an easier gears, and spin faster and still keep up at a social pace on a road bike. I am definitely a spinner, so it's good food for thought!

@soothingsoulwind

Ай бұрын

​@@thenoodlehunter6828 Thanks for the maths 😊

The first real bike I had was a Trek 1000 (rebuilt with mostly Campagnolo parts). It had a 53/39 front and a straight block cassette 13-18. Did a ride that included a 20 mile 4,800 foot vertical increase with 6% average grade. It was a lot of work to keep the cranks moving, but well worth it coming back down.😄😄

@ralphc1405

6 ай бұрын

Both my Colnagos (Super and Master) have a Regina 13-18 corn cob. Living in a flat city helps.

More than cadence, power, heart-rate, the main factor here is VO2 Max. Thinking of your body as an engine, you can have a lot of horsepower or a big tank of fuel but the more efficient it is, the better on the long run. A track cyclist will normally have alot of horsepower but burn through fuel faster while a tour rider can variably have different strengths depending if more of a climber, sprinter, time-trialist, classics rider etc. I argue that there is no "higher/lower cadence is better/worse". Mostly rider fitness dependent.

When the 1 x cranksets became popular with mountain bikes, the cassettes became massive dinnerplates, with as much as a 52 tooth rear cog; I only ride easy trails and while I like the 1 x cranks, I don't need the easy gears provided by the dinnerplate cassettes; when I checked the cogs of my 10 - 51 teeth 12 speed cassette, I noticed that removing the 4 big cogs I never used and the 1 small cog I never used, left me with exactly the same number of cogs and ratio's of a 7 speed cassette, (10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51), which is also much lighter, cheaper, better chain-line, than the 12 speed; Shimano Acera 7 speed weighs 225g, Shimano SLX 12 speed weighs 534g; the price differential, 12 speed is 6 times more expensive than 7 speed.

For long distance trips (4 to 10h) easier gears make me less exhausted, but probably through the effect by putting more power out when in higher gears uphill. With higher gears it is often not possible to stay within my FTP range and going above means fatiguing earlier. So easier gears help me a lot to go on longer trips. Actually, I replaced my 11-34 (11s) with a 11-40 (beyond spec) combined with 50/34. Now climbs of 12% aren't that exhausting anymore and I can sustain several of them throughout a day trip.

I went through this whole process myself last week. As an MTBer for over 30 years, I recently bought a used road bike with 53/39T Dura Ace x 11-25 cassette (10 speed). After much deliberation, opted for a compact Tiagra 50/34T with a new 11-30 cassette. Still experimenting with both the 50 and 34 rings to find that sweet spot. It really depends where you live and what you ride. I live south of Milan, so there are some nice demanding passes where I ride just 30 kms from here, even though around Milan ii is as flat as a witches....

Which is why I just upgraded from 11-42 to an 9-46 (E13) cassette and the front ring from 40 -> 38. Climbing is so much easier now and more enjoyable. Yes the steps between the gears are larger now but I'm not driving a race where I need the perfect cadence.

@SolidxSnakexDuke

7 ай бұрын

On the gravel bike have i the same Option but only the cassett have i 11/46 im not fast but 45km/h is enogh 4 me

@gcntech

7 ай бұрын

Spinning is the way to go! Do you think the enjoyment has meant you are climbing faster? 💨

@SolidxSnakexDuke

7 ай бұрын

@@gcntech 4 me is the way the goal not how fast i am

@patoberli

7 ай бұрын

For me it has enabled me to actually climb steeper roads and ride them at a much more convenient cadence. @@gcntech

@barneyklingenberg4078

7 ай бұрын

The spacing on the Ekar is actually smaller on the top-end then with an 2x set-up. Since you are using an smaller chainring at the front. But on the climbing gears yes the spacing is fairly large.

I was introduced to bigger gears a few years ago and honestly I won't go back, I live in a very hilly country area of northern Ontario Canada and I find this helps

Nice to see all the comments from riders who switched to gears witch suit their needs. I like to have a “spare cog” when things get tough. Or when I take my bike frim the road to gravel. I myself ride an 50/34 front with a 11/34 or 11/40 rear. Yes an ultegra 8000 long cage rear derailler can take a 11/40.

Great video! My husband changed my road bike cassette to a much bigger one and it has been hands down the best improvement ever done to my bike ( other than a bike fit). I live in Ireland and love doing hills, so an easier gear ratio meant that I could go on much longer spins with steeper hills with less fatigue. ❤

My mantra has been "downshift and spin" for decades. I agree that different people may have different "natural cadences", but I think most people are grinding too much. the best explanation I've heard is that at low cadence and high power output your body uses more muscle glycogen. Once that's gone, you're done. At a higher cadence your body is using more blood sugar that is easily replenished. I don't know if that's ever been tested, but I think many of us have seen anecdotal evidence for this. There's also the knee stress aspect to consider.

I use a 53/39 front and 11/28 rear and found training while trying not to use the 39 chainring can be quite effective at getting stronger and overall faster. Of course I’m not hitting double digit, long climbs and don’t cross chain 53-28.

One of the reasons I went with a gravel bike as my first drop bar bike was the gearing. 11 speed 11-34 with 46/30 chainring. I'm 67 and this gearing is awesome.

As a 220lb rider, essier gears mean lower power zones for climbs which means more time to be able to hold those zones and power for climbs. Sometimes to keep upright its 300-400+W. If i can reduce a previous bailout gear down to do 20-30w less, then it will be faster overall, less fade during the ride snd the ability to hammer at other spots that aren't climbs.

With all the recent pro riders taking early retirement due to myocarditis issues I'll stick with the harder gears, lower my heart rate and improve my leg strength thanks! As the old saying goes...Grind, don't get left behind!!! 👌

@xosece

7 ай бұрын

you are right with the lower cadence. However, easier gears allow for a low but steady cadence too where harder gears can be very difficult to use. The issue of the pros is they sometimes try too much cadence to build up speed regardless the gear, and you pay for that...

@denverspin

6 ай бұрын

Myocarditis could be caused by other factors. And the science is proving it 💉as it’s not just in the cycling world - Covid vaccine.

On long endurance rides with a lot of climbing the larger cassettes with spinning higher cadence works a treat and saves the legs. This while still providing the option of a slower cadence on a harder gear for the flats and rolling hills. You get the best of both worlds. I don't ride the same cadence on a ride due to the varying road conditions and wind. I like the versatility that a larger cassette offers.

This is so helpful information guys. This info is also helpful to those using cycling as a fitness starting strategy. We may not have the developed muscle to go fast but building the cardio fitness first, we don't reach 'the bonk' stage too quickly while still enjoying the ride and scenery. Legs give out while the heart shouldn't do so, hopefully.

Thanks for an interesting video. Age of rider though! I'm a 66 year old rider with some long covid complications. My heart rate is now higher on climbs than before, also my breathing less good. I find high cadence riding more difficult than before. I have easy gears (36 / 32) but a lighter bike (6.6kg Emonda) with stiffer wheels (Campag Shamals) has helped me more that swapping cassettes. ''Light bikes are mint'' said OB recently, and I agree. For me getting out of the saddle and using my legs is more efficient, though I'm neither Feather or feather-weight.

@thomasmitchell6609

7 ай бұрын

Think about the long term consequences for knee joints. Unlike the cardio-vascular system, they do not benefit from a degree of stress. At age 70 I was able to return to distance riding by equiping my old road bike with the lower gearing described in this Video. The improved circulation is purported to slow the deterioration of osteo-arthritis.Think about the long term consequences for knee joints. Unlike the cardio-vascular system, they do not benefit from a degree of stress. At age 70 I was able to return to distance riding by equiping my old road bike with the lower gearing described in this Video. The improved circulation is purported to slow the deterioration of osteo-arthritis.

@turboseize

7 ай бұрын

​@@thomasmitchell6609 Joints, too, need some degree of stress. Cartilage is nourished by synovial fluid, and this works best by moving the joint through it's full range of motion against a load that is heavy enough to compress and sort of "sqeeze out" the cartilage, so that the cartilage then can "suck in" fresh synovial fluid when it decompresses. Lack of movement will lead to degradation of the cartilage and eventually ossification of the unused areas, which will then restrict range of movement even further. That's why training OFF THE BIKE, especially strength training and some mobility work (mobility is more than just stretching!), is so important.

@thomasmitchell6609

7 ай бұрын

There's stress and then there's UNNECESSARY stress. I wouldn't dream of telling you how to deal with your respiratory problems, caused by a communicable disease. But for anyone to omit using lower gears to spare their knees and, in most cases, to improve circulation and respiration would be, to say the least, unwise. I'm guessing that you have yet to struggle with osteo-arthritis in your knees. I hope you never do. But knee pain, from pushing high gears, kept me from cycling for a long time and that was not good for arthritis or respiration and circulation @@turboseize nnecessary

@turboseize

7 ай бұрын

​@@thomasmitchell6609 Our opinions probably differ only in nuances. You are of course totally correct that, especially with endurance exercise, to high a load over prolonged time can and often will lead to overuse injuries. My point was that load in itself is not bad for the joint, but rather required for it to stay healthy. Mashing to high a gearing for decades may lead to issues (with joint cartilage, the menisci, even some tendons), while a few sets of heavy deep squats, counterintuitively, might help to prevent them. After all, it's not only about the force, but also the volume. A couple sets of heavy squats will be 50 reps per week. Grinding to heavy gears on a bike, the actual force will be much lower, say about a quarter of that of a heavy squat, but the repetitions per week won't be in the double digits as with the squats, they will be in the tens or even hundreds of thousands.

The pedal stroke efficiency curve seems nearly logarithmic to me, taking more and more power to maintain cadence as rpm’s approach maximum. I remember Mark Gorski (1984 Olympic Gold Medalist in the Sprint) talking about attempting to reach 200 rpm with zero resistance to raise that stroke efficiency. I think most of us experienced riders start using more power to maintain the cadence than goes to the wheels around 90 to 100 rpm, but that’s just a guess. Inexperienced riders are probably most efficient (and more limited) at 60 -70 rpm. Practicing the spin to extend that usable cadence is under appreciated and hugely beneficial in my opinion. I don’t know how, but actually measuring those factors might be eye-opening.

I use 47 -30 at the front and 11 32 at the back . Works for me

@barneyklingenberg4078

7 ай бұрын

That'd be my all-round set-up as well.

@martynfairclough5013

7 ай бұрын

@@barneyklingenberg4078 I'm using absolute black chain rings what have you got on your bike . Might need to look for replacements now that they are in hot water with the cops and Hambini

46/30 on the front 11-40 on the back Use a road link to extend the reach of the rear mech Epic hilly rides await

@derekkuhl

6 ай бұрын

This is the way.

I've recently been down this road myself. I'm using 9 speed Ultegra with 53-39 on the front, and the cassette that came stock was 11-21. I am old, have never been a pro level rider, and I just can't work with that anymore. Swaped out the rear mech for a 9 speed Deore, and put an 11-36 cassette on. Much better now. Is it a bit of a bodge? Sure. But it works a treat for me.

Loved this vid...made such sense. I ride an 11/25 in a very hilly area, and I would love to make some of my climbs easier on my legs. Thanks guys...you're the best!

I remember 1989 where in an US cycling magazine they reported about a study, that at 50% of your maximum force 90% of the circulation in the muscle is blocked. This reduces the time and blood volume for energy and waste transportation. Ever since then, I try to use lower gear ratios with higher cadences even if it does not look very "cool". But I have the impression, that it was and is good for my training and racing.

Depends on your physiology and muscle fiber type. Look at your average cadence, ride after ride after ride. Your natural chosen cadence will obviously present itself. Mine's 77. It's always 77. It might tick up a little on climbs or harder efforts, but whatever I need to use near that cadence on climbs, that's the gearing I want. Some will use lower cadence, some will use higher. If you have a riding buddy who's cadence is higher/lower on climbs, try to match theirs for a time and see what it feels like. It can be shocking how uncomfortable a higher or lower cadence can be from your natural preference.

@spicy_mint

7 ай бұрын

you can train to be comfortable at a higher cadence, when I started out cycling I was comfortable at 70-75, now 3 years later I'm closer to 85-90. 70-75 feels like a grind now.

@kannibal8850

7 ай бұрын

You should do some drills to get a higher cadence. First i started around the same cadence like you and now i prefer a cadence around 95

@BC-wj8fx

7 ай бұрын

Mine changed drastically. When I started riding, around 75 rpm. Then I developed more cardio and experimented with higher cadence, and began averaging 100 rpm as my natural comfort zone. But now I find myself at 85 rpm.

@h20s8804

7 ай бұрын

This is 35 years into cycling. I'm in my sweet spot already. @@kannibal8850

@boudoir00

7 ай бұрын

My natural cadence was around 60 rpm - extremely low but that’s how I rode for years. Started working on increasing cadence early this year and it was hard but am now comfortable with 85-90 rpm. It allows me to save the legs for when I really need them at the steeper climbs or for accelerations out of corners etc.

200 watts = 200 watts. Spinning results in higher heartrate but is better for your knees. You do not allways have to change the cassette, you can change also the innerring (34 to 39) fairly easily for flatter rides. It will shift better too.

@Korkinator17

7 ай бұрын

On the really flat rides, don't you stay in the big ring?

@karelvandervelden8819

7 ай бұрын

@@Korkinator17 Yes but I said on relatively ¨flatter rides¨. So there will still be some climbing. And for climbs up 5 percent you do not need propper cycling gears. (if somewhat fit and not overweight).

@BC-wj8fx

7 ай бұрын

200 watts OUTPUT = 200 watts output. But the inputs will not be equal. One will use more energy. We know this already with aerobic vs anaerobic energy production.

@karelvandervelden8819

7 ай бұрын

@@BC-wj8fx 👍

@gcntech

7 ай бұрын

Great points! The only issue with changing the small ring can be the jump between the two rings. This can cause shifting issues if the jump is too big 👀

I can definitely confirm the "harder gear is more muscular, easier gear is more cardiovascular" theory, as my tri coach has been preaching that for years. Personally, I always put on the tallest cassette that my rear derailleur can support, if only to make sure I have more options when things get steep -- I can outclimb all my mates when they're grinding at 36/28 but I can remain seated at 34/34!

@matteodiluce9387

7 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree. Plus it gets interesting on really long climbs and longer rides with a lot of vertical. The easier gears save your legs for later. I lately used my gravel bike with gp 5000 tires for riding in the Alps. The 40:42 ratio worked amazingly, especially on climbs with up to 23% gradient.

@JackMott

6 ай бұрын

you can confirm something because your tri coach said so? Where do you think muscles get their energy from?

Whether I go for high cadence or low cadence on a climb depends on how I'm feeling for that particular climb. Sometimes switching between the two in the middle. Just depends on whether I feel like my lungs or legs can take it better at that time.

Rim brakes, 1:1 25 mm tires, use 1:1 when it is 15% or plus. Then back down to the 28 or 25 when under the 6%. Or if you are feeling your cheerios put it in the big dog and dance like Contador

I know we keep advocating “spinning to win” but research has shown (as you’ve mentioned in other videos) that there isn’t a set high cadence that works well for everyone. Some people are more efficient at cadences less than 80rpm. I’m an advocate for cycling at radios and gears that work for you, as an individual

“Spin to win, dance like lance”. DurianRider just exploded

Finally road biking is catching onto what mtb has been doing for a good while .

Easier gears did help me. I use 3X9 on my trekking bike. 28-38-48 on the front. I was using 11-28 cassette. Now I use 11-32. A good choice for me. I can acelerate faster and feel less pain in my legs when riding a long trip. I also heve less trouble riding into a strong headwind. Or when I pull my bicycle-trailer.

@paxundpeace9970

7 ай бұрын

Easy gears make the day.

Yey ive been waiting for a video with this topic. Hope you can do in the flats also🔥🔥🔥

Deep into a climby Fondo I was not regretting my switch to accomodate 33-36 instead of 35-33. Used it for a lot of the final climb - 180-200W with a comfy cadence of 80-85 on consistent 7-10% sections

Definitely like the video. This video goes with the video about Srams new 10 tooth gear parings. Very helpful.

Great effort! Finally you guys found your lost power meter and did those tests again with controlled POWER. Your test result in this video is very inline with my experience that it's a load transfer between muscular and cardiovascular systems. And is very inline with the scientific research in this field that shows the most efficient RPM is about 60. I want to add that there's a difference between "max efficiency" and "max sustainability". Though low RPM is more efficient, the time to fatigue could be much shorter than the high RPM, even though the RPE is lower. So for sustained effort a lot of people find that high RPM is actually more easier, even though "feeling harder". I guess another thing is when you want to get really fast, like 50% 100% improvement, you can't avoid the leg force. You can only increase your RPM so much. If you are looking at 20%+ 30%+ 50%+ or 100%+ improvement, you have to work on the legs. (given that cardio is unlimited, that's another topic).

Fascinating. No wonder it can be tough sometimes to get my 36/25 up the big climbs (especially weighing 84 kg).

This is why I love my Sram AXS 10-36t cassette. 12 speeds, LOTS of options. And the thinner, lighter, but stronger flat top chain keeps the spacing between the gears even smaller.

My newest Carbon Fiber Road bike has a 53/39 crank and a 11x30 cassette. I typically ride on hilly roads in South Carolina. For that terrain, the gearing works well. I took a cycling trip to the Big Island of Hawaii where the climbs are long and very steep 15% to 20% flattening out to 9% and then back up again, for several miles at a time. For that environment, I used a 50/34 crank and 11x32 cassette (biggest I could go with a short cage) and I was able to get by. For the longer, steeper climbs, the lower gearing is a huge help. Not sure I could have done it with the larger crank and smaller cassette. I've also learned ( and trained) to keep my cadence at a higher pace in general. I target 85 to 95 RPM average with sprints over 100 RPM. Spinning is definitely faster than grinding and can be sustained longer. Great video!

I’ve used a 36 tooth for years, here in Wales we’ve got mountains in every direction so you need an emergency gear sometimes

It's very important that you go to Mallorca if you ever get the innovative idea that changing to a lower gear might help you climb hills. There are no hills anywhere else on the planet and increasing your carbon footprint helps people make more bike parts from carbon-fibre.

Taking riders trained to push a gear and getting them to go at 87rpm is interesting. Train for 90rpm and it becomes easier and easier, train for 100rpm and that 85ishbrpm becomes so much more natural as your CV system improves. Have both low cadence high leg power and higher cadence and you can switch between them to rest one a little whilst using the other. Has to be a win win.

Hello GCN, and thank you for your channel! I'm love your information, I trust you, and I learn so much. Your last sub-scientific research though,... There are a lot of holes in the collection, analysis, and evaluation of data. With that said, it still contains valuable information for me. That you subjectively can state that you with two so drastically different cadences can generate the same power and maintain the same speed, and thereby shift the workload/fatigue between legs and the heart, is a great skill to have. Personally, my technique is to poor to generate any high level of power when cycling with a high cadence. That less resistance doesn't fatigue the muscles as much as high resistance is of course nothing new. Lifting 100 kg once does not has the same impact on your muscles as lifting 20 kg five times. But to generate the same power, you need to do the five reps in the same time as you did the one rep. And that's where the higher-lower cadence equation has a ceiling and a bottom, and those are different for each individual.

The optimal cadence is a function of power output such that overall efficiency is maximized and the load on the aerobic system is balanced with the load on the muscles. For example, every hour record has been set with a cadence of about 105 RPM. Track Sprinters go much higher when delivering 1000+ watts to the pedals. We see climbers like Feather climbing mostly out of the saddle using the slowest possible cadence that allows them to just barely stay on top of the gear. The data from your test suggests that the 28 tooth cog is more efficient than the 34 at 200 watts. Also, transmission losses as wells as 'gear gap' increase significantly with cogs smaller than 13 teeth making them undesirable at best. Lots to consider.

On rides with up to 1000m of climbing and under 60km in length, the easier gear is more of a "want" than a "need" on the steep bits. Into the third hour or a ride, though, if we've logged 1500m or more uphill and there are more climbs to come, I'm spinning to save my (soon to be 50 year old) knees since I got all of the muscular work I could want out of hours one and two. It also helps to prevent a cramp on warm days, I find, if you're spinning instead of grinding it out with fatigued muscles.

I have always run 9-speed 11-34on the rear and a triple up front. I've never wished for more in-between gears. Early on I discovered switching between leg load and cardio load. Alternate between the two to give the other some recovery. I train at the most extremes, e.g. 5km circuit at 60 rpm, then again at 115 rpm, repeat a few times.

When I got my Wilier Rave SLR that had Ultegra 11-30 & 50-34 I changed it to 11-34 and used a GRX 48-31 chainring. Makes hills so much easier and I spend way more time in the 34 cog than I do in the 11 cog...my legs thank me for it!

“So many people could potentially benefit from this “ but only If their cardiovascular fitness is right up There with lance !

Now in my mid forties I believe in spin to win, my road bike is 50/34-11/34, gravel oval 44-11/34 and MTB 32-10/52. I still take off from the seat for hard effort but cannot keep up for long, maybe age. ✌🏾

Something I learned mountain biking has also carried over to road biking. If my legs are burning but I’m not breathing very hard (have some HR reserve), I use an easier gear to spin faster. If I’m breathing really hard but my legs feel good, I use a harder gear to slow my cadence down. Of course, if my legs are burning and I am huffing and puffing, I just have to slow down 😂. I like having the big gear in the back just to have the option on steep sections, or to recover on a climb if I go too hard and blow up. I think the optimal cadence is different for every rider, though not as much different as some people think.

I already use grx (46/30 11/36) on my road bike. It is amazing especially since I do long rides bordering on ultra distance.

I concur and volunteer my results for the average rider test. I've just bought a carbon gravel bike with hard pack tyres. On tarmac I keep the pressure higher and having the low ratio gearing means that I can climb longer and have legs in reserve to stand up and pump out some extra wattage if required. (Which is a nice feeling when you're 55 and getting your fitness back.)

I couldn't agree more with the conclusions of this video. Good job Ollie and Alex. I completed my first Century in 1968 and in 2022 rode ahead of the pros during TdF week three. I owe all of this to GEARING. I plan on riding Mt Ventoux and Alp d'Heuz in summer 2024. The joke in the family is that Dad will stop riding when the big gear on his cassette has to be bigger than the wheel itself. Until then...........keep riding.

As an old school mountain rider I’ve relied heavily on low gears on road but obviously more so racing in the dirt. I find that the advantages are; some psychological relief on long steep climbs, a lessening of lactic acid in my legs and more oxygen into my lungs. I also find that I have fewer post ride cramps in my legs if I can have a higher cadence when needed. I would find myself using a zig zag accent in order to lighten the extreme steepness of the terrain, thereby imitating a higher gear for added recovery. Great video!

@xanthoptica

6 ай бұрын

For off-road (or on a rough road) it can be hard to spin efficiently when the bike is being bounced around. If you are pedaling so fast that you get "micro-bucked" going over a root or a bump then you're converting forward momentum into lifting your body weight...not very efficient.

Really wants to see a mtb cassette on there but still great video lads keep it up

Power for Velocity is independent of gearing. Gearing is decided by your individual muscle type and how you have trained. For example, I grew up on 52/42 with 13 to 23 screw-on freewheels. My first geared bike at 12 years old was a 48 chainring to a 14 to 28, 5 speed screw-on block. With 26" wheels, a 45" gear was supposed to be workable for a youth. The result is now at 63 years old, a 10% hill is no problem on a vintage bike with 48 single ring and 28 sprocket. Rode up a couple of 15% conks today. Strava said 236 W.

What's interesting is I rarely hear what I feel is the important part of these conversations on gearing (or even brake type) is where do you typically ride? I live in an area that's very hilly so it's nice to have a really wide range because I have lots of opportunities where there is a somewhat decent climb and it's nice to be able to keep the Cadence up, as well as a lot of descents where I'm pedaling in highest gear. If I lived somewhere flattered I would much prefer a much tighter cassette to have more control over the Cadence. And if I lived somewhere like Florida I would like to have a one by on my road bike.

Interesting , I agree with your synopsis, my road bike is over 20 years old and the gear ratios are not good for steep hills. I also have a hybrid which is much newer and a darn sight heavier , but find it easier going up steep climbs as I have a better range of gears… so will look at getting a new group set that gives me a better range and open up the rides I can do on my road bike…. . As the winter is on its way , a project for the new year I think….

@denverspin

6 ай бұрын

👍 do it before the bike shops get busy. The mechanics appreciate that 😉

My new Specialized Roubaix bike build has a Leonardi General Lee 9-50t, 12 speed cassette w/a 32 chainring. I used to spin out w/a 34 chainring, but my local bike shop owner assures me that the setup we went with will get me up these big hills around here. I haven't been able to test this out yet. I think I'm going to need a 34 or 36 chainring in the future after knee replacement surgery, but that remains to be seen. Originally, I wanted 13 speed, but was told the parts would be too hard to source if there was a breakdown.

Yes, I’ve been training this too, light gear, high cadence, no stress on legs and I can conquer the climb better. Then still have the energy to complete long flats.

The results of this experiment makes sense, there is no need to buy a lighter bike, just buy larger cassette....this is one reason I kept my 2011 Specialized Allez and purchased a larger cassette......

10 speed 12-28 cassette, with a compact double for me. My old 10 speed Ultegra short cage won’t take anything bigger, but then I rarely go on huge climbs and I’m happier on cadences lower than 80rpm anyway

Interesting, I’m currently debating this between my 2 bikes, and whether to leave my newest bike with the 11-34 compared to the 11-28 on my other bike. 11-34 is a 9 speed, 11-28 is a 10 speed. Currently doing gear calcs to work out what direction to take.

"bigger gears" : larger ratio, more development "bigger cogs": smaller ratio, less development, lower gears I always view it as a tradeoff between torque, creating peak muscle load, and efficiency, since spinning wastes motion (spinning legs in circles). I want to find the balance. So at the same power (measured on the bike) lower gear results in lower HR, but also less static force.

I tested riding uphill in lighter gears (by doing so, I wasted al ot of money for getting Campy CT Square taper cranks), just to find out that it does not only not work for me, but I also felt losing power, as I at that time rode with high cadences on the flat. Now I go uphill again with cadences around 50-60 rpm - it is sometimes rather funny passing riders with a cadence twice as high. On my favourite hill (it has only got 6-8%, on the last 3km the road goes uphil at about 10%, that nis when I switch to 21-23 - it's the Feldberg, maybe those presenters that visit the Eurobike in Frankfurt/Germany next year should try that hill), I use mostly (depending on the used bike) 43 or 46 as the small ring, and between 16 and 18 teeth on the back. On a good day, I had 56/21 on the whole route, and the time was still quite remarkable. This kind of grinding helps me building muscles I can use then not only on the flat, but also for fast descents.

In a hilly area like Krušné Hory, where I live, 11-34 is in my opinion almost essential. I´m so used to it, that I don´t even notice the gaps between gears. The main advantage is, that you can go fast with large chainring and smallest cog and then, when you approach a steep hill, you still have the opportunity to shift to the largest cog and smaller chainring, enabling you to conquer it with much less effort, than if you´d have to grind it on 28t, out of the saddle, with aero penalty and weight suboptimally distributed more forward.

Easier gears can make the difference of a newbie making it up the mountain… or not. Great explanations. I have found myself wishing for an in between gear a few times

@gcntech

6 ай бұрын

Spin To Win 💫

This is how I would race many years ago, and can be a method used on the flats. Because I didn’t have the power the other riders had, I’d spin. And then I’d have some left in the legs for the finish. - Early 1990’s.

I’ve got a gravel bike, which is perfectly happy on the road too. It’s a 46-30 with 11-36 at the back, just done a local steep climb and it felt good. I’m 60 and 105kg so getting up hills is more difficult that it used to be, but on the 20% gradients I can keep going without killing myself 😀👍

I was glad to have an 11-36 for the Zoncolan. Of course, my serpentine paper-boy route added about 1/2 km per km.

I get the point of using easier gearing for climbing steeper gradients. But I don’t get the point of this particular test from the point of which gearing (if any) will be faster while maintaining same power output. I am not sure if anyone commented on this yet, but from pure physics (science) point of view the results must be equal. They had to be equal, there was no much point testing this! This is because an object (cyclist with his bike) will increase its potential energy to same amount in both cases when moved from point A to point B. This is because the starting and finishing points are the same! Thus, the WORK required to lift an object to same vertical distance is equal in both cases in this test. It is irrelevant how steep the actual climb (you might as well move perfectly vertically to same amount of height to produce same amount of WORK). Since Alex was cycling at exactly same POWER, the TIME = WORK / POWER will be the same in both cases. Then allow a bit for discrepancies for differences between cassette weights (which would be negligent compared to overall weight of the object), wind, etc. and you will get that 1 second discrepancy. I must say Alex was really good at keeping his power output so consistent! But from the point of finding out which setup would be faster, given the agreed conditions of maintaining same POWER, the test was pointless.

I'm old and slow now, so I finally have a low gear with a 39x25. 10 years ago, my low gear was a 39x23. 30 years ago, it was a 39x21. I only have one 20% hill in my area. The rest are just rolling glacial moraines. Don't forget, a high cadence results in a higher heart rate. You must be trained to spin fast.

@blubaughmr

7 ай бұрын

30 years ago I was running 40/26 Shimano 600, but that was in the Seattle area, with lots of hills to climb.

Was running easier gears forty years ago and still using them. You can get round the big jumps between gears by using a ‘Frankenstein’ cassette - single tooth jumps from 11 to 19 teeth then three more sprockets to 32 teeth

If you ride at the same watts on the same bike in the same weather conditions your time will be the same whichever gear you’re in. That’s just how the physics works. The question is what gear allows you to most comfortably and sustainably put out those watts. And for harder climbs what gear allows you to put out the most watts. Most people could do a 20 minute FTP test with higher power at 80-100 rpm than at 50-60 rpm. I rode Ventoux on a hire bike with 32 on the back. I would have liked a 34 or maybe even a 36!

My bike has completely different gears. I'm using an 11-speed gear system. The rear cassette is 11-51. The front chainring is just a single oval 44T.

Great video! Would be interesting to see the same test but on tempo rather than endurance load. (Probably >260 for Alex) I find that on harder, longer efforts, sometimes switching between spinning and grinding helps. So always get a shorter gear, so you have the choice!

@xosece

7 ай бұрын

exactly, the more choices the better! I explained why in a comment in this thread so I don't want to repeat it again. But anyways, good point

I have power meter pedals, but I tend to focus on cadence and heart rate to gauge how I'm doing, with a goal of maintaining at least 80 RPM and staying under 170 BPM. This makes riding a my good old 53/39 11-21 9-speed workable, even for a 63-yr-old retiree. When I do encounter a climb, dropping onto the small ring and the big cog gives me a ratio of 1.86 to 1, a pretty hard gear even for a fit young guy, but I rarely need anything close to that where I live. My other favorite road bike is a bit heavier but gives me a low gear of 1.33, so I have that option if hills will be a thing.

@barneyklingenberg4078

7 ай бұрын

Steep gradients are not possible with that fitness and set-up. And i am young wild and free.

@rangersmith4652

7 ай бұрын

@@barneyklingenberg4078 Perhaps not. That's why I have given myself lower gearing on other bikes.

Where is Durian Rider he has been saying this for years. Froome and Roglic are two pros who believe in this, peak Froome would spin like crazy.

I'm a skinny weakling and love my 34-34 granny gear. I'd happily have a 36 on the back if I could get it. I almost never feel like I'm missing more fast gears, but as I purposely seek out hills, I do find myself wishing for more easy gears when hitting really steep stuff, or when I'm really getting tired.

I get the reasoning behind it, but what ismt being taken into consideration is how one's body functions. Everybody has their one "natural" cadence, so trying to force a higher cadence might not be as efficient. Also, as they mentioned, the jumps between gears is not as smooth. A rider could easily be forced to use a cadence they wouldn't prefer to use. It should also be kept in mind what a rider's cardio ability is. Lastly, a rider needs to test out which gear set up works best for specific locations. When I was traveling to HK multiple times a year I tried various gear set ups. Eventually, I found a 50/34 with an 11-30 cassette worked best. Next time I go I plan to try a 52/36 with an 11-32 cassette. Reasoning is simple. The top four gears on both set ups in the big ring are almost exactly the same ratio.... ...which goes into riders understanding how gear ratio works. Personally, I've always been a gear masher. My body has no real problems with stressing out the legs. I ride pretty efficiently on a lower cadence. When I suffered a calf strain I did start to use a higher cadence. I was able to do it, but it did not feel natural.

i personally find a lower cadence easier on climbs with my preference being around 50 to 60 rpm. i find that prolonged efforts at a high cadence will give my cramp - no matter how much i prepare, hydrate, warm up, massage, cast a magic spell and whatever else to stop that. i have noticed though that when racing on rouvy on hilly routes i seem to be able to pass people quite easily and then maybe give myself a 20 second respite by moving to an easier gear. As for the angliru. i have only ever done it on rouvy. first time was a few months ago when i crawled up at around 25 to 30 rpm (due to snapping the inner chain ring and the best option being 52 - 28). Did the route again for my 50th a few weeks ago a few times when it was much easier.

@newoldsteel

7 ай бұрын

Oh yea same here

@denverspin

6 ай бұрын

How does one snap a chainring? I hear of snapping chains, or spokes, but I’ve yet to see a broken chainring - unless it’s carbon.

I run 1X with 42t up front and 10-52t out back. It is a gravel bike, but often goes out on fast group rides. It took me a couple rides to get used to the wider steps coming from my 2x11 road bike with 52/36 and 11-34. I'll take the bigger steps to have my granny gears any day, and have no desire to dust off the road bike.

The best gearing is user dependent. Pick the gearing that works best for YOU. With the new 11-30 cassette on my 12 speed Dura Ace, I think I'm okay with the stock 52/36. My last bike had 50/34 with 11-28.

@RobBelanger

6 ай бұрын

You probably don’t see a big difference between the easiest gears on your new vs your old setup. The new setup should be just slightly easier (36/30 < 34/28).

@chrisdelaplante5515

6 күн бұрын

Depends where you are living, if it's flat a 25 at rear is ok, but if you live in mountains a 32 or even more can be usefull !

I fitted a big cassette on my bike for the hills around me but it felt horrible, I never seemed to have the right gear, so I went back the the smaller one and climbing feels easier and natural now.

I think everyone should consider their own unique physiology .. my ftp tends to be higher with bigger gear ratios… also varying the technique up a climb can be a a lifesaver.. seated high cadence low gear interwoven with standing efforts at a higher gear will shift the climbing burden between both of your energy systems. Most will toggle the gearing at the rear cassette to hit this technique. I discovered doing this between front rings instead and it unleashes so much leverage. It’s so effective and it’s my own thing I found through experimenting by trying everything. My buddies can’t believe how well that works but they are afraid to try it. It can cause havoc on the lower back so this technique should be metered if one has lower back issues like myself

@xuchenglin6256

7 ай бұрын

This is true. Cyclist comes in all ability/fitness levels a lot of commenters are beginners even though they might have ride for decades. They are just not "fit enough" to crank it up. Scientific research has shown that the metabolism cost is lowest at lower RPMs like 60s, so that's supposed to be the most efficient RPM mechanical/metabolically. That could explain why your FTP is higher. Given the fact that your cardio system always maxed out if you do it right, whichever approach that has a higher efficiency results in a higher number. However this efficiency in the research papers doesn't concern how long you can hold it. My guess is though the efficiency is higher, the time to fatigue could be shorter than the other approach. I bet you did your FTP test using 15 or 20 minutes protocol, but if you actually try to ride your FTP for 1 hour or do a 1 hour FTP (I know nobody is doing it), your preference could shift. That could also be true if you try to ride a 1.5-2 hour huge climb continuously and try to get a PB. Your body could automatically shift before you even notice it. For a lot of people just to be able to go non-stop on a climb already needs a TT-ish effort, that's why they swear easier gears. But if you are fitter, actually for recreational climb you got a lot of options just like the flat. The thing is for fitter riders unless you are doing TT or TRI no cycling effort is something like that flatline. You are in the surge-recover-surge-recover loop, as long as you can recover, the higher the efficiency the better. I myself actually find the similar so I did some research into it. You are not alone and not a weirdo. Simply put most riders are just not fit enough to experience the alternative.

In the old days I rode 53x41 with either a 7 or 8spd straight block and never had an issue on any terrain, cuz we were all on essentially the same gearing. Nowadays I'm 30ish years older riding a 53x39 and an 11-25 block. I can't say if the modern gearing is easier cuz i'm older (but still fit)... i will say on retro days when i bring out the old steel, I have to get to the front of the group in order to be toward the back of the group at the peak of the climb (when most are not on steel that is), so i think it's relative. I do know that when i moved from my old steel bike with 8spd to carbon 11spd, that first season was insane cuz it took so much less effort to move the carbon bike over any terrain.

I’m an old git with a low maximum heart rate,anywhere around 150 bpm I’m struggling.Weirdly sometimes a higher gear lower cadence ,putting more stress on my legs actually lowers my heart rate.I wouldn’t use this method on an ultra long climb,but unless the local council makes a mistake by building a 1700 metre high speed bump I should be fine in Hertfordshire

I almost always ride with a minimum ratio of less than 1:1 (except on my ancient Raleigh 2x5 with a 40:24) . I don't always use it, but at 15% it is really useful - my normal average cadence on a ride is over 80 and at the end of a long day out the wide ratio cassette can be a godsend . On a single climb which is well in your capacity low ratios are not going to show a real benefit but over long distances the ability to switch the load between legs and cardio pays off

One aspect you guys completely gloss over is that you are using a Dura Ace 9250 with a Shimano 105 11-36 cassette! That is awesome! I googled everywhere and no one is saying you can do this, so you should tell folks that this is pretty straightforward, or did you guys have to mess with hangers and such? I usually push the boundaries also, and have been using a 52-34 chainring, but I love the idea of getting a 1x1 gear ratio and keep the 52-36 which is so much better shifting.

52/42 chainring and 11/34 cassette , i tend to go for the higher cadences and a lower gear than one would use , but there is point of diminishing returns both ways .