I popped over to Amazon to read these reviews and I noticed that of the six one-star reviews only two were verified purchasers. Reading through them it became obvious that most of these reviewers never actually read Authorized. Amazon used to allow users to mark comments as "helpful" or "unhelpful" but they removed the later several years ago. I wish they would bring back the "unhelpful" option for reviews like these.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Good point! I didn't think of that!

@dustinburlet7249

5 ай бұрын

100% - Amazon is becoming increasingly unhelpful do to the removal of features like that - well said

“You can have your TR and read it too” - fantastic ❤

@theopneustos3712

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, if he ever writes another book on this topic, that needs to be the title. :)

Your book is one of the most helpful and thoughtful books that a person could read on this topic.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Many thanks!

@simonline1194

5 ай бұрын

I concur. Simonline🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🤔😀👍

I know a KJV-onlyist who said that they don't trust Bible scholars. I pointed out that the translators of the KJV were Bible scholars. The conversation ended.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Right!

@TheDoctor394

5 ай бұрын

I once read a KJV Only article which condemned modern scholars, saying that God frowns on scholarship, quoting a NT verse which, I admit, I can't remember offhand, but know he misunderstood it. But then, later on in the same article, he praised the KJV translators for their scholarship! I sometimes wonder if these people really read back what they've written, or really think about what they say.

@TheDoctor394

5 ай бұрын

@@QuietlyContemplating Yes, it probably was one of those two. 🙂 Thank you.

@TheDoctor394

5 ай бұрын

@@QuietlyContemplating Yes, indeed, but what gets me is the inconsistencies of condemning intellectualism - except when it's to do with the KJV translators.

@larrybedouin2921

5 ай бұрын

They were Christians first. Not textual critics, who are practical atheist.

I’ve never been KJV only, but have always considered it “the best”. My argument was always “it was clear to my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents. Why can’t much better educated people today understand it?” Now I’m not so sure they ARE better educated. You have pointed out several false friends to me and I received my BS in 1980. My pastor uses the NASB and I’m reading that this year. Anyway, great job with your work. 5 stars! Charlie D.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

This means so much to me! I would LOVE to hear how it goes reading the Bible in your own English!

@MAMoreno

5 ай бұрын

It may not necessarily be that we are "better" or "worse" educated, but that the priorities of our education have shifted in response to major shifts in our culture and workplaces. Learning Latin is a less valuable skill than learning coding languages. Handwriting skills are secondary to typing skills. And I hate to say it, but tracking down information quickly is more essential than researching information thoroughly.

@bibleprotector

5 ай бұрын

@@MAMoreno And already I read of one sectarian group using AI to do Bible translating, something which could now change very quickly without the need for people with years of educational/practical experience!

@richardvoogd705

4 ай бұрын

​@@MAMorenoI took two years of Latin at school, and wasn't particularly thrilled to have to do so. I'm not sure that I retained much of what I was taught. Looking back, 50 years later, I would have found learning Pasifika languages such as Samoan and Māori of more practical value in my adult life.

@richardvoogd705

4 ай бұрын

​@@bibleprotectorI recall seeing something online about using AI to make a translation, and had a "what the ....?" mo

Yes: one-star reviews should be treated as a badge of honour. Worry not! We're behind you, brother!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Ha! Thank you!

@harrywwc

4 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords"getting behind you" may or may not be a comfort - e.g. Sir Humphrey Appleby - kzread.info/dash/bejne/eIChlLpvo6nHZJs.htmlfeature=shared&t=583 :D (just kidding bro)

Great video. Makes me want to go review your book. It was impactful on me and gave me a burden for those who I taught at the time. I'll never understand those who vilify godly men who desire that the average person understand their beloved Bibles.

@markwardonwords

6 ай бұрын

I think that people who feel threatened but know they can’t really argue often feel they just have to reach for invective. It’s their only tool.

@toolegittoquit_001

4 ай бұрын

How about just reading it first ? 🤔

Well, now I am confident that Beowolf and The Canterbury Tales are probably still English vernacular. I feel inspired to update my raiment with some stylish new pantaloons to match my crest. In truth, I find the skill of debate highly lacking today. Few people seem to know how to make connected arguments. There is just no rebuttal to a good word salad. I am inspired by your tactfulness in handling these want-to-be critics, another skill rarely seen today. Your work is very helpful and valuable to us all. Blessings to you and your continued success at explicating these issues. Bartholomew Cubbins may even envy all the feathers in your cap.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Thank you brother! Love Oobleck!

The first critic said, "May the Lord reward you according to your works, Ward." This is the one thing that he said to which I reply with a hearty, "AMEN!!!" Keep having thick skin as you're fighting the good fight, brother. Your reward will be great in heaven. - Smiles

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Love that!

You get bonus points for bringing the Monty Python argument sketch into the discussion.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Love that sketch!

Hang in there. You have been a blessing to me in my faith journey.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Much appreciated.

Forsooth, when it comes to obscure words in the AV, there abound handfuls of purpose.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

YES!

Regarding the objection at 21:20, many KJV defenders give off the vibe that the difference in word count is due to textual differences. They conveniently ignore that the NASB has more words than the NKJV.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Right! They give stats that support their narrative; they don't use just weights.

When I hear these types of purity arguments I often think of verses like this. Hebrews 10:16 -17 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds, and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.” The way I read this it doesn't matter what translation I used to quote this.

Your book has been very helpful to me. Thank you and keep up the good work.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

You're very welcome!

All great points! Thanks for your work and your attitude. It is a good example for me.

Another great video! It was amusing as well as informative. And the Monty Python quote was brilliant!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

"no I'm not" - I laughed out loud - will done! :D

Your calculations were so well thought out I had to listen to it twice about the bucket fulls.

Stay the course sir! You're doing great work and making a difference. Keep that humble and gracious spirit. You teased the video about copyright conspiracy theories....super excited to see that one!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

It may take a good while!

Mark, your work and videos have opened my eyes to the importance of reading the Bible with different English translations as I do not speak the original language. Nor am I living in the time and place of the original audience of much of scripture. Your work combined with that of disciple dojo (JM) have brought in tools to understanding the culture, language, and rich history of Gods actions throughout scripture and History. God has continued to use you to bring attention to the language of the text criticism as well as Dan Wallace on bringing out the various aspects of how God has reached out to humanity. Thank you for following the calling God placed on your life as it has help in the stirring of more fully understanding Gods word. It is truly a good thing when the universal church of Gods people, Jew and Gentile, obey Gods calling and edify each other.

I think it's interesting that these reviewers accused you and all the many scholars who have worked on modern transitions of doing it for the money. There are many digital platforms that offer most translations free of charge. My personal favorite is the Blue Letter Bible app, as it has many features I like, to include commentaries, concordance, Hebrew and Greek interlinear and cross referencing between translations. It also has multiple language options and is generally easy to navigate. Plus, it has audio options, which is great when my kids want to listen to the bible, but it doesn't matter if I'm reading it to them (like at nap time, when my 4 year old likes to fall asleep to the bible being read). I have my prinary physical study bible, and will use my phone app for cross referencing or deeper understand with commentaries from Godly men spanning the centuries from John MacArthur to Matthew Henry, and beyond. Did I mention it was all free? I just think, in this day and age, people should know that there are plenty of free options for bible study resources, which makes that argument not only a character assault, but also erroneous.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Right! I think this is an excellent point. I do want to take serious objections seriously. And some objections to the evangelical industrial complex and the role money plays there are serious. But KJV-Onlyists, in my experience, never dig into the details. They toss off this criticism lazily without explaining how they think modern translations should be funded, or noting that there are many free options, including modern translations that are totally open-access. And they don't use just weights. They have their own Bible publishers-are *they* in it for the money?

Love that Monty Python argument sketch! I use it in my Higher Order Thinking class. Thanks for another thoughtful video.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Very welcome!

In the excellent modern bibles God speaks clear modern English to us modern English speaking Christians.

some of the best videos on youtube, keep it up as a technical person that also studies the original languages, I find that my proper English grammar (usage) continues to decline over the years

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I don't edit people in real life. It's not my job to judge everybody, just the people whose writing comes across my desk. But when people criticize my English knowledge using bad English… It's hard not to say something. I finally did!

@EricCouture315

5 ай бұрын

​@@markwardonwordsya Anglash aint all its cranked up to be Mak Wad 😅

@subq

5 ай бұрын

it was well deserved, too bad the corrections can’t be posted on the actual review :)

I did not expect to watch a video about Bible translations and actual LOL, but I just did. Perfect ending.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I'm honored!

Try to put yourself in my shoes the first time I encountered the KJVO argument! My first language is not English. I did not read any English translation for many years. Why would I? While I am fluent in English now, I notice that my comprehension goes down when I listen to someone reading from the KJV. The church is global and not for English speaking people only. Also, what about the poor people living before 1611?!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Right!

Well reasoned video. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in your responses to your critics. I'm afraid I don't always share your calm demeanor. BTW, I lived in Ferndale for awhile before moving to southern Washington. Still get up there to visit friends. God bless.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I love the PNW! Such a beautiful place!

Mark, you are so thorough in all your work and I’m so thankful for scholars such as yourself to do the work for me. Yet you are so nice, while thoroughly answering these Amazon reviews. You have the patience of Job. The one that got me was “perverted texts” (and that whole sentence he wrote) I just cannot. 😂 I’ve added your book to my Kindle Fire so will read it soon. LOL, when I searched “Authorized”, your book came up first and then I noticed the KJV Bibles received 4 and 1/2 starred reviews. Whaaaat? Not ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️? Off to read some of those reviews now. 👀

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! I really hope you enjoy the book!

I think you are doing a great job in educating people, and I myself agree with your opinions. The facts speak for themselves, as they should.

@markwardonwords

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Excellent work for the Body of Christ.Thank you, Brother Mark.🌹⭐🌞⭐🌹

Very appreciative of the Monty Python reference toward the end, Mark.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Love that clip!

Yep. As a fellow writer, I agree fully that one must build a thick skin. As for your response, I can attest that the early Reformers like Luther and Calvin could be quite sharp-tongued in their responses to opponents, so I think you're quite justified.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

We revere those men, and rightly so. The gospel was at stake. But I still don't like the way they talked (Thomas More, either). I've got Bible verses telling me not to do that. But it was a different time.

The ending to this was great! What else can you do though when an argument isn't an argument? Sadly, I think that your responses to these criticisms will simply go over the heads of the critics. Perhaps not always because of a lack of skill on their part, but a lack of will to hear anything else. Now I can't comment on your videos without being self-conscious about getting the red pen over my grammar and syntax! Ha!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I don't think any one of those critics will listen to this video. But most of them did at least seem to make it through my book. That's something to be grateful for.

Enjoyed the ending. In my days of elementary school the response would have been "I know you are but what am I?"

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Right! ;)

Hey! You (along with Barzon’s The Forgotten Preface) were recommended by Rosaria Butterfield! That’s good enough for me! I now have my own copies of both books and I’m enjoying them immensely. Thank you, Mark. Simonline🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🤔🙏😀👍🇮🇱

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I'm honored! I love Rosaria! And Barzon's book is great! Question: are you in the RPCNA?

I don't like how Amazon no longer allows written responses to reviews, but only has 'helpful' and 'report' buttons (not even an 'unhelpful' option). I also don't like how one now has to have made a certain amount of purchases from The River in the past year to even be able to post a review.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Y'know, you're right! I forgot that! That's why Amazon encouraged authors not to respond-because they could. We can't anymore.

LOVE how you ended the video 😂😂😂

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

;)

Currently reading Warrant and Proper function, thank you. Thank you, E Michelle reminds me of a good rebuttal to the idea that there are no epistemic duties.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

It was Frame who taught me about epistemic duties. When I tried Plantinga first, I simply failed. May need to try again 20 years on…

One star reviewers remind me of looking through a binos from the wrong end 😂

@markwardonwords

2 ай бұрын

Maybe they thought one star meant I was at the top all by myself!

This was fun! Have you thought about looking at a few five-star ratings of those who changed their minds or learned something new and make a video about those?

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

A good idea! I do ask often what changed folks' minds.

Brother Mark, not only will you never please all people , which you know on an obvious level, but you have to remember the starting point of some who read your work. Meaning, some come with such a defensive mindset that logic and reasoning are in the back seat. I so appreciate what you do and seeing you respond to the one star reviews shows where your heart is however I agree with Amazon on this...don't respond. "shake the dust off your feet" and move on sharing your knowledge with those who are ready for it. Thank you for all that you do. (I keep your KJV parallel website at the ready and access often)

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Appreciate this! I know that those reviewers will never listen. They mostly serve to help me make an appealing video title. ;)

Comprehension is primary to this discussion perhaps of higher significance than readability- though related. It's one thing to preach The Whole Counsel of God and quite another to actually understand it or at minimum comprehend what has been written with as few obstacles as possible.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Right!

Please, please do not be discouraged!! I’m not really smart, as you are. Neither am I very educated, as you also are. However, I do learn something every time I watch one of your videos, and you have lifted a lot of guilt I felt because I preferred reading a translation that was so much easier for me to understand and apply. Thank you!

@markwardonwords

3 ай бұрын

Thank you for this.

imprecation. Thanks I learned a new word. Your vocabulary usage is lots of fun.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

It's a very important word for study of the Psalms!

I dont understand most kjv bible versuses and most people I know dont. My main bible is kjv because I grew up with that but I will use other bibles for learning more. I thank you for the hrs of time you have spent researching words for us.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

My pleasure!

Well said! Personally, I would like to see a TR New Testament done along the lines of the CSB, not adhering to the KJV paradigm, and being truly contemporary. For reading I use the NKJV and the KJV, and as you have suggested in previous videos, supplemented by the NET, CSB, ESV, MEV, LSB and NETS LXX, with occasional forays into scans of 18th century editions of the Book of Common Prayer (for the Psalms). Also French and Germain Reformation era bible facsimiles, as well as modern French and Haitian Creole Bibles. Thanks as always! Be not dismayed!😊🙏📖⛪

@johnmcafee6140

5 ай бұрын

You may already know this but the CSB is a revision of the HCSB and was the brainchild of Arthur Farstad. Dr. Farstad was the general editor of the NKJV and he wanted to produce modern translation based on the Majority Text similar to the NIV. He died before the project really was started and the remaining members decided to switch to the Nestle-Aland/UBS Greek text. So you almost got your wish 20 years ago.

@rosslewchuk9286

5 ай бұрын

Very informative! Thank you! Still waiting on a TR based contemporary one. The HCSB, CSB, and BSB all fail my John 1: 18 litmus test: I prefer only begotten Son, not one and only Son with an attached phrase concerning His being God. But, I still consult them, mostly to clarify Old Testament readings. Blessings!@@johnmcafee6140

@MAMoreno

5 ай бұрын

@@rosslewchuk9286 Have you seen the Evangelical Heritage Version? You could say it's like a conservative Lutheran CSB. It's not based on the TR, but it is far more open to using Byzantine readings than most popular modern versions. Case in point, here is how it translates John 1.18: "No one has ever seen God. The only-begotten Son, who is close to the Father’s side, has made him known."

Loved your last three words. Monty Python indeed!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Thank you kindly!

Perfect!!

I love the work you do. My KJV-onlyist issues come from talking to Mormons. B/c the Book of Mormon is written to sound like King James fan fiction, they are stuck on the 1611, and just assume the language proves it is from God. If the LDS church moved to a modern translation of the bible, it would no longer sound like the Book of Mormon. Also, the archaic KJV language is the reason most Mormons won't read their bibles. That is my biggest pet peeve with KJV-onlyists: they are propping up Mormonism without even knowing it. Keep fighting the good fight, brother.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I must agree. This is a point I make in Authorized.

@richardvoogd705

4 ай бұрын

One time I decided to look at a copy of the book of Mormon, it occurred to me that parts of it were almost, but not quite, copy-pasted from the KJV.

Weird, my ESV has those last 12 verses of Mark 16 in nice readable modern English. Same for the woman caught in adultery from John.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

A great point!

Really am enjoying your work Mark! So well done! Question: what is your view of the Geneva Bible? And… would you consider it the Protestant Bible and the KJV a state sanctioned Bible? Grace and peace to you Steve

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I haven't read enough of the Geneva Bible to have a solid opinion. I'd defer to Tim Berg on the second question. But that sounds right to me! Of course, the state-sanctioned Bible later became the Protestant Bible.

Excellent riposte!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Love that word!

I mean, my biggest question to the KJV-only position would likely be this: "Have people come to Christ using modern translations?" Keep up the good work, Mark. I really enjoy your videos. My M.A. is in Linguistics, so a great deal of the things you cover are really quite interesting to me, but more importantly, they are edifying. 🙏

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Amen! Love this!

@nosh-kami

4 ай бұрын

@yContemplating Hey there! I do apologize for the confusion. I'm not sure if English is your first or second language, but I will assume the latter. If I'm wrong, just let me know. :) The phrase "I mean" can be used in many ways with different contextual/pragmatic "meanings." In my case, I was using it to indicate that my following statement was contrary to some idea hinted at in the video; i.e., the idea that the KJV is the only way. In fact, in that context, my "I mean" statement also carried this sense of "Hey, I'm trying to make a really obvious point here." I hope that makes sense. If not, just let me know and I'll try to do a better job! Take care!

@nosh-kami

4 ай бұрын

​@@QuietlyContemplating Wow, let me start by saying I'm so sorry for misinterpreting the situation. Since my graduate degree is in linguistics, I mistakenly assumed English might be your second language. I've received a lot of similar questions from ESL folks. Concerning your comments, I respectfully disagree. Everything I said is neither correct nor incorrect, it simply is what it is. My usage of the construction/phrase was well within the limits of linguistic pragmatics and sociolinguistics. I understand your reference to Karl Marx and "deconstructionism," but it's crucial to differentiate between linguistic theories and political ideologies. While Marx did analyze social structures, including language, through a critical lens, "deconstructionism" as a linguistic theory primarily associated with thinkers like Jacques Derrida operates within a different framework. Language is dynamic and changes whether we want it to or not. There are word uses and features that were not considered grammatical a century ago, but today are: e.g., "hopefully" or splitting infinitives. There are many English-speaking people groups through the centuries who accurately held on to and shared the Word, though their English dialects would certainly have been deemed ungrammatical or incorrect. Perhaps it is my training as a linguist. I can't help but approach language with humility, as Christ calls me to do in many other situations. If a person's meaning is clearly there, if their logic is there, then I have no reason to be prescriptive about the way they speak. It seems like you and I will always fall on separate sides of this issue, though, my friend. I do wish you the best, and pray that the Lord bless you and keep you, that he makes is he face shine upon you, and be gracious to you. Take care.

@nosh-kami

4 ай бұрын

​@@QuietlyContemplating I hope that God blesses you, my friend. Take care.

@nosh-kami

4 ай бұрын

​@@QuietlyContemplating When you say "bought a lie", what exactly do you mean? The word "bought" indicates a purchase or transaction. Are you perhaps using the common idiom or slang in this case, which would instead mean "to agree with?" The same goes for "hook, line, and sinker." I'm unfamiliar with fishing. Unless, of course, you mean that I have been completely deceived. But why not just say that? It appears I am not the only one who needs to be careful and deal with some things. This will be my last response. I see now that you are only interested in trolling people, and certainly not from a place of compassion or love, which God's Word commands of us: "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man." - Colossians 4:6, KJV. I truly wish you the best, and pray that God may also turn your heart of stone into flesh. God bless you.

Well said sir

Counting the ASV of 1901 and the RSV of 1952, today we have about 12 major Bible versions, not 1000. I own them.all.

Hi Mark, thanks for the video. Could you clarify an argument that you made at the 16:20 mark regarding 1 John 5:7? If TR proponents (of which I am not one) are positing that the Critical Text has left out verses, are you responding that the Critical Text is valid because the shorter readings have blessed those who have used it? Or is this a more-narrow response only to TR proponents who claim that the longer ending of Mark 16 and the Pericope Adulterae are valid because they have blessed readers? Thanks.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Excellent question. I'm saying that an appeal to what God has used and blessed doesn't solve the problem, doesn't answer the question, doesn't tell us which text is original. God has used and blessed, and God's people have received, versions that include 1 John 5:7 and versions that don't, versions that include the longer ending of Mark and versions that don't. Does that make sense?

@DaveHulick

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Yep, that makes sense. Thanks!

I guess 3yue is give. The letter that looks like a 3 is a yogh and it is often used in Wycliffe for g as give gh for right or gh as enough etc. Sometimes difficult to figure out.

I have your book on my shelf and it’s on my read soon list. I can assure you based on your other content it will not be a 1 star rating.👍

Well said, brother. It truly is odd Christians can be so misinformed and vitriolic regarding issues we don't fully grasp. We need to be studied on all sides of an issue like this one, especially since the Ruckmanite position is so basically indefensible.

On a lighter note, Mark, your English accent is excellent.😉

@simonline1194

5 ай бұрын

What English accent?! As a Lancashire lad, I love his warm and soothing American accent. I could listen to it all day. Simonline🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🤔😀👍

I have one more comment on your behalf Brother Mark. SO THERE!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

YEAH! lol

Wow wow wow! At the risk of giving you a swelled head you are a paragon of virtue and restraint. The specifity and clarity of your aguements are much appreciated as is the temperance with which you handled what could be an emotionally unstable situation. Well done Mark - well done! I have to admit, I do wish that Amazon would permit COMMENTS once again :-(

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Wow, thank you!

When king James was written id think they had more trouble with it. My teen daughter brings things to me that are often accenting or wanting more attention in those areas. Other than the beholds, or ye and thous lol. Its so beautifully structured , the verses repeating Prayer logic Cursed rationalism Blessed common sense stands out now to me more so than as a child.

Oh, one little addendum: if you want to have fun with a KJVO person, ask them what they think of the Apocrypha, which was included in the original 1611 and was valued by the translators enough to be included in the volume.

@fraukeschmidt8364

5 ай бұрын

Indeed! The same is true for the original Martin Luther (German) Bible. But they were an addendum to the OT and it was pointed out that they were not regarded as inspired Scripture but nevertheless worth reading.

@libertylighthouse8080

5 ай бұрын

As a KJV onlyist, I can say that point is one of the oldest and weakest arguments.

@Outrider74

5 ай бұрын

Explain

@libertylighthouse8080

5 ай бұрын

@Outrider74 The Apocrypha was included for literary and historical purposes. For example, the books of the Maccabees give insight to the Maccabean revolt. These books help with the transition between Malachi and Matthew. They didn't consider these books to be a part of the canonical books. The Church of England rejected them as scripture. That's why they put these books between the Testaments. If you read the AV1611, you'll find the translators correcting correcting these books in the marginal notes. IMO, only First and Second Maccabees have any value at all. The others are ripoffs of actual scriptural books.

@Outrider74

5 ай бұрын

@@libertylighthouse8080 Then why translate them at all? And for somebody like a Ruckmanite, who believes the King James Translation is inspired, why were the Apocryphal books included at all? For the record, as a confessional Lutheran, I (like the historic church) hold that these books, while not inspired Scripture, are useful narratives for historical and moral purposes. But my point is that the original King James contained the Apocrypha, and it really wasn't until more modern American revisions came along that the Apocrypha was completely jettisoned from the Bible. Even the early Calvinists had no issues with having copies of the Apocrypha. I also realize that not all KJVO adherents embrace Ruckman or Gipp's arguments. Still, that people like Ruckman or Gipp are inconsistent on this point is telling. Also for the record, if you like the King James/Textus Receptus as an option for reading, knock yourself out. But they are not the only options. The New Testament writers quote the Septuagint at times, which differs from the TR Hebrew (the KJV, btw, clearly illustrates this well with its quotes from the Septuagint in the New Testament). I also, as a confessional Lutheran, appreciate the clarity of sacramental efficacy as expressed in the King James texts concerning baptism and the Lord''s Supper (which I know that the evangelicals here would not agree with). But a slavish and unwarranted exaltation of one translation as if it is the only way to properly understand the Scriptures, especially when history and scholarship illustrates otherwise, is myopic and dangerous.

The kjv contains over 500 unintelligible words. That's not a handful. I prefer my LSB.

@FlyTour69

5 ай бұрын

LSB is my current favorite too 🩵📖

@keithfuson7694

5 ай бұрын

@@FlyTour69 Yea. I plan to buy more LSB s . I have the wide margin..

Good day Mr. Ward. I have been watching your videos for quite a while. And I like the contents that you are doing here. Very scholarly. Well, in anycase, how can I get in touch with you? Let me just set it first so you would know. I am a catholic lay preacher here in the Philippines. And yet I like learning also besides from the people, my side of the fence.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

byfaithweunderstand.com/contact

Could you clarify why mark long ending is absent from modern translations? Is the same or similar type of ending in one of the other Gospels? Why the alternate ending in Col 1:14?

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Matthew, there's no simple way to answer this. It is a fundamentally complex issue. I'd have to urge you to read Dirk Jongkind's little book: www.amazon.com/dp/1433564092?tag=3755-20 The history of the text of the New Testament is worth some time to study. I also highly recommend Dan Wallace's Credo House course on the topic. www.credocourses.com/product/textual-criticism/

@MAMoreno

5 ай бұрын

The statement is a bit misleading. The long ending of Mark isn't absent from most modern translations. The RSV placed it in a footnote in 1946, but they caved in and restored it to the main text in 1971 (after the RSV Catholic Edition had already done so in 1966). Other translations have left it intact, though they may use brackets and other formatting features to draw attention to its disputed status. The only major translation out there that actually leaves it out of the text today is the New World Translation, and it's generally understood that the NWT is not what English-speaking Christians have in mind when they talk about trusting modern versions.

@hayfieldhermit9657

5 ай бұрын

@Matthew, could you clarify which Bible you are referring to that does not have the long ending of Mark?

@Mark Ward, I am curious what you think of the KJV Rock of Ages Bible. I have somewhat recently got into Bible collecting and think that it might be the best KJV I could get as it says it has definitions for words that have changed in modern English, among other features.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Got an ISBN? I'm not familiar with that one!

@daltonburroughs3811

5 ай бұрын

@markwardonwords not sure why my comments keep getting deleted, I guess it doesn't like if I put any of those numbers I guess all I can give you is it's name: KJV The Rock of Ages Study Bible Thanks for your response

@daltonburroughs3811

5 ай бұрын

​@@markwardonwords Let's try this in a separate response. Lamb Skin: ASIN # B0C44C7CFV Paperback: ISBN 10 # 1424333970 Paperback: ISBN 13 # 978-1424333974

@MAMoreno

5 ай бұрын

From the samples I've seen, the Rock of Ages Study Bible doesn't offer much help on archaic words, and it promotes incorrect information (such as its claim on p. 1544 that the word "Easter" is related to the word "Ishtar," which is both etymologically incorrect and completely unnecessary as an explanation: the KJV translators are using "Easter" to refer to the entirety of the Passover celebration, including the Feast of Unleavened Bread; the Textus Receptus itself simply says πάσχα, "Passover").

@daltonburroughs3811

5 ай бұрын

​@MAMoreno big oof. is that the newest version that does that? From looking into it, I think they released an update just a couple of years ago, hopefully a note like that would be taken out because that's pretty easily refuted

5-star response!

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Many thanks!

Has it helped to have modern Bible translations? Yes it has! I can't offer stats but l can speak to my own experience. I am a nerd. I was the kid reading the encyclopaedia in the library with other kids were out playing sports. I understand English pretty well. I came to faith later in life. Only a few years ago. I started with the KJV but switched to the ESV for home study. The difference in compressibility was marked. With the KJV, l would literally take notes and attempt to paraphrase each chapter, which was often longer than the text itself. With the ESV this became unnecessary, because it was written in comprehensible English.

@russell13904

5 ай бұрын

*comprehensibility

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Amen, brother.

I am yet to encounter a Bible translation that actually misses out the long ending of Mark or the pericope adulterae. Yes, they make it very obvious that the oldest manuscripts do not contain those passages, but they are not left out! Even 1 John 5:7 is often put in a footnote.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

A good point! My friend Matthew Everhard has made this point!

@MAMoreno

5 ай бұрын

A few translations (such as the New English Bible and its 1989 update, the Revised English Bible) move the Pericope Adulterae to the end of John as an appendix. The earlier editions of the RSV placed both this passage and the long ending of Mark in the footnotes (very, very long footnotes!). However, the only widely-used translation I know of that removes them entirely is the 2013 edition of the New World Translation, and I think we'd all agree that the NWT has bigger problems than just these omissions.

I'm with you, Brother Ward! May I do something idiosyncratic? I'm calling this a "narrative " prayer for your ministry. It's a personal example of many of the astute points you're making. I was born and grew up in Eastern Maine....not Downeast....those people lived on the coast and were "Herringchokers." See where I'm going? I grew up surrounded by people who were born in the last three decades of the 19th Century and understood and sometimes used their terminology. Now, if I knocked on your door and asked, "Can you help me? I just jillpoked my car a mile up the road!" , would you understand? (Knowing you, I'll bet you might surmise my meaning but most people would not). What I'd be saying would be that I'd overturned or was in the ditch with one or more wheels in the air. "Jillpoke" was also a noun. If somebody was clumsy, inept or totally helpless at physical tasks , he was referred to as a "Jillpoke"....if his handicap was relatively more severe, he was called a "Joel's Jillpoke". Out of interest, I recently read the Book of Joel to see if there was a relevant connection but failed to find it. It is still a mystery to me but, years ago, I heard it once in a while...with rapidly diminishing frequency. I love the word, but, if I had a mishap, would I tell you that I "jillpoked"? Absolutely not! My childhood English evolved! The word "culch". I grew up with it. It was a term we used for "trash" or "garbage." I didn't know it was a "false friend" until I took Chaucer from an English professor named Dr. Baker. He spent summer breaks in Maine doing interviews hunting for antiquated English. "Culch" was one of his favourite discoveries. He narrowed its use down to Maine, East of the Penobscot River. He further found that it had been in common use in England until sometime in the Elizabethan Era when it was replaced by the much more posh word, "antique"! The word evolved from meaning something "out of date", perhaps, "old fashioned" , moved to the New World and evolved to mean "trash". Do I use it? Yes, if I'm talking to people from Eastern Maine (people still understand it, although it's infrequently used). Otherwise, no! "In the room of" (instead of "instead of"! I have to check but I know I encountered it recently in one of the Reformation English Bibles. I grew up with it...and have found out that speakers of some Scots dialects would understand it. I included it in the glossary of an autobiography I edited from tape recorded interviews in 1974. Why? It's because virtually NOBODY understood what it meant anymore! I don't know if it occurs in the KJV ....just pointing it out in case it does. Sorry to be long-winded but this is a prayer from the heart. A prayer of encouragement! I'm eagerly awaiting a book on "False Friends" but do not rush....this is something that needs to be done for KJV aficionados as I am. It's what I memorized. God Bless! Wayne

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Thank you for this! I have a big meeting coming up about that book; its future is unclear. SOMETHING will come out, but I'm not sure yet exactly what. I've got about 135k words written!

@waynebean1521

5 ай бұрын

@markwardonwords I'm so glad! But, as I said, don't get trapped in a publication "rush"...if I recall, that happened to Erasmus! LOL! I've often wondered about doing an historical survey of the evolution of the Bible in English, concentrating on non-scholastic contribution...i.e., publishing house involvement (we know typesetting errors but, I mean publication pressure) and financial backers (although devoted and well intended). I admire you because you think about things like that! I pray for your success in this project. If people want to cleave (is that a false friend? LOL) to the KJV for personal reasons (one of the categories of people Brother James White clearly identifies ...getting ignored or attacked, also), they NEED YOU (me, included!). Go for it!

@waynebean1521

5 ай бұрын

Update..."In the room of"! Matthew 2:22. This phrase occurs in Matthew's Bible (and, I assume in Tyndale's N.T.), The Bishop's Bible AND the KJB! The exception is The Geneva, where it reads, "in steade of"!

As a long-standing Christian who numbers a KJV-fanatic among my oldest and most loyal friends and who has experienced loving kindness in many quite different (mainly fundamentalist) settings I have observed that the most commited Christians often display a brittle "all-or-nothing" mindset. Whatever the issue, - e.g. baptism(s), inspiration, dispensationalism, election, eschatology, soteriology, the eternal state of the lost etc., - these wonderful brothers (yes, it is almost entirely a male phenomenon) have boxed themselves into a framework that would seem to collapse if they let go of their cherished doctrinal conviction. Even the great Dr. Lloyd-Jones signalled in his book "Authority" that to concede on a literal understanding of the early Genesis stories would inevitably lead to the collapse of the Gospel message itself. In the case of KJV-only stalwarts this brittleness means that any attempt to wean them away from the fairy-tale conviction on which they have built and to which they cling is tantamount to pulling a life-ring away from frightened children in an attempt to get them to swim. Defence of their position is a life-or-death issue. Hence, such brothers will always condemn outright (with one-star ratings) any attempt to push them into deeper water. Regardless how loving or reasonable they may be in other areas of life they curse and thrash about wildly to discourage anyone who attempts to entice them out of their fairy castle to move out into broader uplands (yes, I know I am mixing metaphors). Dr. Ward has been accused of pretending, lying, deceiving, being dishonest, even being ignorant, being motivated by financial gain, and not having the best interests of Christians in mind. These openly-expressed and utterly misplaced slurs by sincere Christian brothers caused me to wince in 'Fremdschämen'. If any would-be one-star reviewers should read this I urge them to allow verses like Jn.13:34; Rom. 12:10; 1 Pet. 1:22 to temper what they write. And please do not bring judgment upon yourself by insisting these verses apply only to brethren and denying that role to faithful servants like Dr. Ward.

@markwardonwords

2 ай бұрын

Thank you for this. I really do feel that when all manner of evil things are said against me falsely, I get to rejoice, for I have a reward coming!

Here's what I don't get: A large portion of KVJO are IFB. IFB is firmly once-saved-always-saved. Their bus ministry encourages praying with people so they become saved, and then regardless of works, that person is good to go. So then, if a person could theoretically be saved without ever reading the Bible, and never picking one up, then how important is the version *really* inside their own systematic theology?

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

That's a great question, it really is. That's not the way I was taught to evangelize in my KJV-Only church in high school, though. Not that I recall.

@mombythesea2426

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords I've been studying IFB recently and I'm going off of the conversations I've had and the videos I've seen. I'm sure there are many KJVO people who have a different view of works and salvation, but I know of a few churches my family attends who believe salvation happens at the moment you put your faith in God (primarily through a prayer) and then since you can never undo that decision, it doesn't matter how you live the rest of your life. Which is part of why they're so contradictory. If you can't undo salvation and if salvation is that simple, why the long skirts? Regardless, I just don't know why they are so adamant about a Bible version since it doesn't affect a person's salvation. Especially since the bus ministry involves just talking to people in their vernacular about Jesus and that can be enough to lead a person to pray. It seems that they claim the KJVO is mandatory to true belief, and yet in practice, what is actually mandatory is telling people about Jesus in words they can understand.

@MAMoreno

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords I'm still unclear on the theological leanings of the church you were attending as a teenager, but I can speak from my experience as a former member of a fundamentalist KJVO Landmark Baptist church that the standard viewpoint on salvation was very much the "easy believism" described by this commenter. It was even more extreme than the eternal security belief found in Provisionism (Soteriology 101 Article Nine: "We deny even the possibility of apostasy"), as it held to the idea that apostates were still assured of their future salvation because of their one-time confession of faith. They would likely lose their "crowns" in heaven and have nothing to lay at Christ's feet, but their eternal state could not be revoked once it was established.

@hayfieldhermit9657

5 ай бұрын

@mombythesea, I don't speak for all IFB, since they all vary a bit seeing they are independent after all.....but in my IFB circles, I would say they would acknowledge that a person could place their faith in Jesus without having ever read a Bible for themselves. I believe the place the 1769 revision of the KJV fits into their theological framework is that they use the claim that this particular revision of the KJV is flawless, in order to prove that their faith is sure, and correct. It becomes the thing that allows for them to have confidence in God. And obviously its good to have confidence in God, and in the scripture, but in this case, its only putting confidence in God and scripture IF....the 1769 revision of the KJV is flawless....If its not, then the typical IFB position casts doubt on even being able to have confident faith in God. Its pretty much an all or nothing situation, and they are tying it to a revised translation that does not exist in print before 1769..... So what would they do if we sent them back to 1565 in a time machine?? I have no idea.

Forgive my simplicity, but what bible do KJV only people expect non English speaking people to read? DO they expect them to learn English first? It feels like, in my opinion only, their views are very limited globally.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I don't get clear, straight, consistent answers on this question. But the mainstream, official position is that any faithful translation of the Masoretic Text and TR is fine. The more extreme someone is, the more likely they are to say that people need to translate the KJV-or even learn English. But that's extreme and comparatively uncommon.

@fnjesusfreak

5 ай бұрын

I've seen some say they have to learn English and use the KJV (I refer to this as Gippism). Some are more moderate and will accept a cross-translation of the KJV. A few will allow for translations from the same Vorlage even if they reject the same for English (e.g., Trinitarian Bible Society).

All five, lol.😊

Mark has many ref references to Christ's resurrection..

I read some of those 1 star reviews and it seems to me that they from the people who are "KJV only." It's sad they are not open to the information, language, translations, explanations, manuscripts etc... that are presented. Many are aggressive as well as if Jesus spoke English, they seem like a "cult" with KJV only". I speak Greek and I'm GLAD for these updates! People of the Lord be united not divided. These updates are beneficial for us so that we can understand the Word better.

Well worth watching for the Wycliffe quote alone. Really looking forward to the copyright video.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

It may be a while…

@nerdyyouthpastor8368

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords I'm sure it will be worth the wait

Bob Jones U cool Im from Greenville :)

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Lived there 18 years!

I picked a random video to ask. I figured and hope my comment will be more positive than the subject matter. I hope it’s not too much but I’d ask for your scholarly/pastoral assistance. I was raised….a JW. That was all I knew until 22 when I broke free. However for 10 years I’ve really been alone when it comes to scripture other than your edifying videos and similar ones. I, as I’ve said, bought many translations of the Bible both love just love language and translation as well as Scripture. I do find myself as a “homeless Christian” if you will here in Greenville. I don’t know and haven’t where to go, what church to attend, etc. If you have any recommendations in the Greer/Greenville area, I’d greatly appreciate it or any recommendations at all. I pray daily. I pray before Bible reading so the Holy Spirit will enhance my thinking and discernment. I currently have a King James Bible, a NKJV Study Bible, ESV Study Bible, NASB95, NASB2020(accidentally ordered it), NIT, CSB, & NLT. Of curse have a NWT around somewhere. What order would you recommend I read them in? I was planning on reading 5 chapters from each at a time, but after praying the thought occurred to me that that may not be wise for some reason. What would you recommend? I know you are busy and answer many people. I’m sorry for this long post, but after all this time, I feel like a crisis in faith in the sense that I need to go somewhere and do something, but I do not know what to do. Any pointers, guidance, etc is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

@MAMoreno

4 ай бұрын

The NLT would be the most accessible if you are reading on your own. It makes the most effort to assist the reader in the culture gap between the ancient world and our own. I don't know any of the churches in your area personally, but here is Sunday's worship service from Greer First Baptist Church, in case you're interested: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gZqTusywl6-rcbA.html

@RevanJJ

4 ай бұрын

@@MAMoreno thank you. Very kind of you to take the time to reply. Thanks I will check that out and actually got a new NLT today, the illustrated one so perfect timing. Much appreciated.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️😘✝️

Thd long ending of Mark is included in all modern bible versions. As is the woman caught in adultery in Jn8..So what's the problem?

@maxxiong

5 ай бұрын

Their problems is basically that the footnotes may cast these passages into serious doubt. BTW I find it surprising that the long ending of Mark is being debated in such a manner. Only modernists that believe the other Gospels are copied from Mark would even consider such an argument convincing.

@curtthegamer934

5 ай бұрын

​@@maxxiongAnd the KJV has marginal notes of the same nature for some of the verses inside.

@maxxiong

5 ай бұрын

@@curtthegamer934 I'm not KJVO lol, just answer a question

@fnjesusfreak

5 ай бұрын

@@curtthegamer934 Mentioning the 1611 footnotes makes a Ruckie's head explode... A lot of them don't know the KJV _had_ translators' notes and some even disacknowledge them as having been added by corrupters!

devil in disguise

@markwardonwords

11 күн бұрын

I would not at all say that about these reviewers. That is very harsh to the point of slander. I assume they were sincerely wrong.

The writers of those one-star reviews should familiarize themselves with your education and your analytic skills.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I think they would view my education as a bad thing. =|

@fnjesusfreak

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords I can imagine them saying something of the ilk of "You are crazy; your much learning has put you out of your wits" (or in jacobethan, "Thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad")

Scripture has been edited for millennia all under the watchful guidance of our creator God. All of a sudden the TR got everything perfect? I think not. I’m thankful for God fearing scholars like you Ward upholding the wonderful tradition of bringing understanding to God’s Word.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Yesterday, I ran into a video I thought it was going to be about the KJV. I saw the thumbnail what’s difference between the 1611 and 1769 KJV. I watched the whole video, it was from a pastor from Tennessee. The video was from like either 2 or 3 years ago. Later in the video, he started attacking the modern versions like NKJV. I left a comment about you and the KJV Parallel Bible website, and the “pastor” deleted my comment.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

I know who you're talking about, I think. I was initially hopeful that he'd be more reasonable. But he seems to me to be too far in. Pray for him!

@arkansasrebel348

5 ай бұрын

I didn’t want to say his name… Another thing, I am guessing that the KJV Only crowd don’t realize that the KJV has a crown copyright in the United Kingdom?!?!

@MAMoreno

5 ай бұрын

@@arkansasrebel348 Some of them do, but it doesn't fit their narrative, so they dismiss it. Cambridge can't enforce the copyright in the United States because the United States stopped caring about England's crown copyrights once the Revolution began.

@curtthegamer934

5 ай бұрын

​@@MAMorenoI've seen some that just outright say something like "I don't care about the UK. It's public domain in the US, and that's all that matters." Sounds kind of discriminatory to me.

I’m so sorry that I hear moments of defensiveness in portions of your replies. These people don’t care about you or the truth. They are after your goat. Don’t give it to them

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Oh, I know! I really know! This video is not for those folks. I doubt any of them will ever hear of it. I don't even know their identities. Pray for me!

Ww true believers would rather spend our money on God's word in modern Bibles rather than blow it on worldly things.

After learning about those nasty ignoramouses with their hateful and moronic comments I felt obliged to visit Amazon and register another 5-Star review. But Mark, I must myself point out a serious defect in the first chapter of your otherwise impeccable book: Kings College Cambridge was founded in 1441, not 1411 as you wickedly state. Please correct this mischief at your earliest convenience as I found it rather disturbing.

@markwardonwords

2 ай бұрын

Ha! I will check into this! Thank you!

@user-of3bp2sm6r

2 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Good on you, old boy, absolutely splendid!

If one cannot read and understand, reliability doesn't matter to that person. I have listened to hundreds of sermons and lectures from KJVO adherents. The logic of these people in insufferable. The arrogance is palpable. If the KJV is the only reliable Bible, then only the English speaking people of the world have a chance to understand the truth. That is arrogant and gnostic. From all the hours of listening I have done, I have concluded that the vast majority of KJVO people are represented within the IFB. They are some of the wackiest preachers I have ever heard. Most are showmen, stand-up comedians and authoritarian dictators. They preach ABOUT the Bible, but seldom preach FROM it. They take a verse (usually out of context) then proceed to tell their congregations what THEY think, whether the text teaches it or not. The grandson of one of these preachers once told me that many of these preachers don't even have to prepare; they just get up and let the Spirit lead them in what to preach. There are some who advocate for the KJV legitimately and they do it very well, but I have never heard anyone argue that the KJV is the ONLY reliable translation effectively. I, for one, am thankful to have a number of English translations where every effort has been made to represent the original languages accurately.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

You are not wrong. The bad preaching/bad Bible interpretation is a FAR worse problem than KJV-Onlyism. =(

@2wheelz3504

5 ай бұрын

You've got that right.@@markwardonwords

The KJV Only ideology doesn’t survive off of rational fact based arguments. I had a friendly debate with a KJV Onlyist where I answered all of his questions and at the end he said “well, I just accept the KJV as the only true translation off of faith”. Blind faith is what it requires to be KJV Only but, the main thing I want Christians to understand is that we do not have to rely on blind faith to trust our Bible translation. Our modern Critical text( Nestle-Aland 28) is based on a mountain of manuscript, early church, and ancient language understanding evidence. God does not require or expect us to rely on blind faith when it comes to choosing a Bible translation.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

This is true of many, many KJV defenders. I agree. And they could have blind faith in worse things! But they are still wrong, and they are still causing division-and causing weak readers to fear the Bible translations that could help them.

I think it depends on the literacy of the person. I can understand the KJV because I have always been really good at English classes in high school. But I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone. Not everyone can read at the level I can and it would be unfair to think so.

Your “Lollards versus that newfangled Tyndale” analogy seems, to me, right and pointed - but it could be pointed even more rightly towards its subject. The next time you meet KJV-Only-items ask them this: What if a Lollard congregation - using the Lollards’ Wycliffe translation - had lasted unto this day: a John-Wycliffe-Version Only congregation, denomination, or movement, using the Wycliffe translation exactly as the KJV-only congregations use the KJV? (In other words, these would be people in 2024 preaching from Wycliffe only, teaching from Wycliffe only, and reading from Wycliffe only - and holding this as a principle in their Statement of Faith - though their sermons and services and all the rest of their lives would be conducted in present-day English: just as you and I and even the most fervent KJV-Only-ites all “live and move and have our being” in present-day English, no matter what is read from the pulpit.) Now: imagine, dear KJV-Only friends, that your neighbors go to a Wycliffe-Only church, so you want to show them why they should join your KJV-Only church, leave their Wycliffe translation on the shelf, and read the KJV only: in fellowship with you. What do you tell your Wycliffe-Only neighbors, what do you show them, what do you argue with them about, to get them to regard the language of the KJV as even acceptable for Bible translation, let alone preferable to what they’ve been reading for centuries? How would all your careful tellings and showings, all your well-considered arguments that you would make (against your neighbors’ principle of Wycliffe-Only) be unlike the tellings and showings and arguments of Mark Ward (against being KJV-Only)?

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Good!

Get out your red pen because my English teachers would be horrified at the grammar and punctuation I use in the comments section.

@markwardonwords

2 ай бұрын

;)

I'm interested in, and like, your work. As far as but 83 words in The Bible, out of 783,000 (that number being rounded down) being held as 'a Bucketful' of 'false friends': I disagree. Would you agree that it's more like a Teaspoonful; perhaps of Mercury, not Water? Still, I hope you continue to prosper increasingly in your helpfulness and service. Gen 15v1

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

Good comment. Remember, though, that those 83 words occur, together, thousands of times as false friend-and some of them occur an unspecified number of times in the senses they still have. Even if a KJV defender sees that as a mere teaspoon, I must ask: a) why can't we update the teaspoon? and b) why do I get so much flack for pointing to the teaspoon? I almost never get KJV defenders saying to me, "Wow! I didn't realize that [x word in the KJV] actually meant [x]! Thank you!" =(

@tonygohagan2766

5 ай бұрын

@@markwardonwords Thanks! Right you are. I didn't account for the number of mentions. FYI: I'm not KJV defender, btw, but a reader of, and of the NKJV and the NET - and NEB, whose Layout, I agree, is outstanding for readability, that's why... I read it! (It's increased my 'engagement' with The Word). I think, when some people cling to their Blesséd Teaspoonfuls, it's because said Teaspoonfuls constitute their very Identity and they feel threatened they'd be bereft of intrinsic components of that identity if measures, and/or the content of the specific aspects of their lovely Teaspoonfuls are changed/updated/replaced, so they say "I'll thank Thee to not even look at my trusty Teaspoonful!" instead. Is it just as satisfactory for you to bring false friends to light and allow the understanding you've shed to do the work, or do you want the Translation changed, (with footnotes/replacements) preferably, or both, as far as your aims? Yet; undeclared, some hearts will change, like some Scribes/Pharisees John 12v42, etc - mayhap there's thanks in that... for, I think, essentially: it is a 'War of the Heart' - not the Mind - you wage.

@fnjesusfreak

5 ай бұрын

@@tonygohagan2766 The Schuyler Treveris KJV I have reminds me of the NEB in format.

@tonygohagan2766

5 ай бұрын

@@fnjesusfreak Hi! Thanks. Yes; I've seen them just recently but they're too expensive for me! I have a small NEB NT from 1961 - 7.5 inches x 5.5 - so I was looking for a full NEB and mistakenly ordered a NET. I hadn't heard of the NET Translation before now, so that's good, in that, as I researched it I realised I liked it. My main take away from having the NEB NT is that I prefer Single Column, I find it really facilitates reading The Word, and I love the text blocks from 2K Denmark: thus I've the NKJV Single Column Reference Bible in Blue Leather winging its way to me as we speak! Which translations/layouts do you prefer?

@fnjesusfreak

5 ай бұрын

@@tonygohagan2766 I'm mainly a KJV and RSV person myself. Oddly enough for a KJV person I like paragraph Bibles, with the two-column Pitt Minion and the one-column Clarion being two of my preferred KJV settings.

Hello, I have not read your book, nor do I intend to. Don't be offended, I just don't need it. Here is my story. I was saved very young and spent my pre-teen and teen years and adult years memorizing and studying the KJV. I became KJO about 16yo. for 30+ years, I accepted the stories about why I should be KJO. Then, about 52yo, I decided to write down my conviction so I could share it with others. I gathered the arguments in favor of KJO and started to verify them. Most of them did not hold water. That's just me, and the other KJOs, no opposing views, yet. Then I started finding KJOs who admitted some of the 'flaws' in the KJV. That's OK, but those who worship the KJV turned on me like a honey badger protecting her young. When I started examining the opponents to KJO, I found the same thing. There are those who have utter hatred towards the KJV and act like it is the word of Satan, himself. In the mix, I did find level-headed believers in both sides who were well studied and didn't want me cast into hell alive. My real wake up call came out of the blue. While inquiring with a non-KJO, the man pulled out a Bible and said, "Let me share the gospel from this." He proceeded to show me the messianic promises, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, The Trinity connection, Jesus' life, death, burial and resurrect, and finally the plan of salvation.....Get this. It was the New World Translation! (I highly discourage anyone from using this translation.) I had to pray! I use Logos, so I set up the KJV plus the other 7 top selling Bibles that were translations from 2018. (The top ten Bibles included 2 paraphrased bibles, I call "commentaries"). When I study the text, as opposed to just reading it, I compare them all to see what differences there are. What I found is that very rarely do more than 2 translations differ on the important words. More often than not, the KJV is not one of the two. I looked into number of translators for each version. I think in all of the translations, there is a mix of different categories of doctrines, including Calvinist, Armenian, non-either one. The number of translators ranged from about 40 to over 100 for each version, with one lower number by a publisher who only mentioned the number of team leaders. Overall, there are more than 880 Bible language scholars who worked on the KJV and the 7, top selling modern language Bibles. I think that most of the translations were translated by scholars who seriously wanted to say what the original text said. I am certain that compromises were made between the different doctrines translators but that they also kept each other from injecting doctrines into the text. I'm still primarily KJV. I read it, study it and memorize it. But I translate some of the archaic words into modern English in my head. The forms of "you", for example. I keep a dictionary handy to mark my words with the definitions so I can better understand what it is actually trying to say. I hear KJOs claim that "anyone can understand the KJV." When they are confronted with someone who doesn't, "they aren't educated enough". And, there it is, the Bible written for common man is now inaccessible to anyone but the scholarly elite! I am no longer KJO, but KJ preferred, even though I don't like the language. I don't believe there is any doctrine that can only be justified by the KJV and not the top modern translations.

@markwardonwords

5 ай бұрын

A moving testimony. As you know, your penultimate paragraph is what moves me most: "I hear KJOs claim that ‘anyone can understand the KJV.’ When they are confronted with someone who doesn’t, ‘they aren’t educated enough’. And, there it is, the Bible written for common man is now inaccessible to anyone but the scholarly elite!" That is what moves me, hour after hour in this work. Someday I pray that the Lord will help KJVOs see that "anyone can understand the KJV just fine" and "people need to be educated" are an obvious contradiction in terms.

O that you had wrote the Hebrew and Greek would you have got more 5 stars as that you may get more one stay reviews, o that we all thought the same. Samenes was not Gods idea, thank God.