The FTC needs to start slamming the hammer down on any and all stations that encrypt their OTA signals

@mikewurlitzer5217

11 ай бұрын

Try to think of ANY alphabet agency which actually works for the OWNERS of this government, We The People. You'd be hard pressed to find even a handful. While I am a died in the wool capitalist, the collusion between government and corporations is criminal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

@ericB3444

11 ай бұрын

it’s CORRECT to think that this bear has a VERY SMOOTH HEAD. You must be thinking, “does he use Head And Shoulders Shine Plus?” That would be incorrect. The answer is a bear TRADE secret. ... PACK YOUR BAGS AT ONCE!!!!!

@UteTrac

11 ай бұрын

I need help setting up a network including WiFi in my home in Utah. I have yet to find anyone person or company willing to do it any help is much appreciated 😎

@bloggerccc

11 ай бұрын

It's authorized BY and through the FCC. They won't slam themselves over it.

@fearlessfreep

11 ай бұрын

Yank a few licenses and it would send a message. But no way they have the balls to do that.

Further evidence DRM is just the broadcaster's way to get fees via OTA.

@ericB3444

11 ай бұрын

Wrong. MUAHAHAHAH.

@SoundOfYourDestiny

11 ай бұрын

They do get fees: It's called AD REVENUE. There is no excuse for their extorting cable companies to carry their channels. There was no excuse for them to sue Aereo, which was going to expand their viewership (and ad value) free of charge to them. And now this disgraceful bullshit.

@mikewurlitzer5217

10 ай бұрын

@@ericB3444 No FACT! The requirement to be connected to the internet puts money in the pocket of the very industry which will use social engineering commercials to tell us how bad we are.

Reminder that the introduction of DRM has never slowed down digital piracy in any form.

@matthewjbauer1990

11 ай бұрын

If anything, it has actually sped up piracy and made it easier because people are actively bypassing DRM. Take DVD and Blu-ray DRM for example. People are actively bypassing it till this day.

@williwonti

11 ай бұрын

Anything actually designed to be viewed by human eyeballs or heard by human earholes will NEVER be too secure to bypass one way or another

@gblargg

11 ай бұрын

Digital Restrictions Management is always about restricting the paying customer.

@usefulrandom1855

11 ай бұрын

Denuvo has to be fair, games used to cracked day or pre-release. Now its usually much longer if at all.

@DaveNLR2

11 ай бұрын

It is already useless. The DRM box output is HDCP. A $20 HDMI splitter from Amazon can already send a stripped HDCP signal out to a capture card. So what is the point?

They led us to believe internet was not needed. That's a nonstarter. I most need OTA TV when the internet is down.

@billfusionenterprise

11 ай бұрын

cue next major disaster , where people are harm due to not getting news they need

@robertmason7013

11 ай бұрын

Internet is required for all DRM incription on all devices this includes TV's with atsc3.0.tuners.atleast that what I reading online.

@penultimatename6677

11 ай бұрын

Zapperbox claims a future upgrade will eliminate the need for an internet connection.

@robertmason7013

11 ай бұрын

@@penultimatename6677 that's impossible to decode a incripted signal you will need a Internet connection.

@mephitusincognito7918

11 ай бұрын

@@penultimatename6677 i'll believe it when i see it

I'm glad you addressed the question I had in my mind as I was watching; if the box requires a constant internet connection just to decrypt the OTA signal, there's really no point! You might as well just stream everything then. It totally defeats the purpose of OTA. You couldn't use this in a cabin/RV at a campground or somewhere remote that may have OTA signals available but not an internet connection.

@patrickmartin4996

11 ай бұрын

What about people that do not have internet?

@bloggerccc

11 ай бұрын

You download the decryption key once and when it's loaded, it's supposed to work continuously until it's intentionally halted (changing the channel, for example) or until something internal goes ka-flooey. (Ka-flooey is a highly technical term; too-frequent use will make people think you're really smart and then you must live up to that!) I used to work on military crypto devices in which new key was loaded daily by mechanical means--- wiring, punch cards, etc -- and electronic re-keying was just appearing when I got out.

@madmax2069

11 ай бұрын

​@@patrickmartin4996what do you think their point is, most cabins/RVs do not have an Internet connection

@madmax2069

11 ай бұрын

​​@@bloggercccthe way ATSC 3.0 is supposed to work is like a one way IPless internet connection, couldn't they just use it like it should be used and push the key by OTA the internet connection was only supposed to be for customized ads.

@patrickmartin4996

11 ай бұрын

@@madmax2069 By what I have read, the TV stations are making it more difficult to receive 3.0 with DRM and whatever else they have up their sleeve. They want money and it seems programmers in general are out to get as much as they can. But as far as cabins & RV's do not have access to internet, that is changing with more satellite internet options. One TV engineer told me nearly 50 years ago, in the future there will be a lot more PPV. Some of that has come through, but at least TV station news is still free and most TV stations seem to stream.

There is only one reason for this. Broadcasters want to push as many people as possible to pay TV for the local channels, so they can get the broadcast fees from the pay TV provider. The FCC should threaten to revoke their licenses.

@MaNameizJeff

11 ай бұрын

except that local cable is bleeding subs left and right and only one online service has really put effort in local broadcast support?

@craigarnold1212

11 ай бұрын

Most of the increases in cable costs are due to locals fees and they stack more channels on to get more fees that really are cable channels broadcast locally. I wonder if the local channels really see any of that revenue or if it goes to their corporate overlords while they destroy small local news channels. Even large market news shows are struggling to even have the staff to do any real investigating or support local events with much if any coverage.

@BartlettTFD

11 ай бұрын

Notice how quiet the FCC has been on DRM🤣

@SGCSmith

11 ай бұрын

The FCC has been quiet because the Broadcasters and media companies would sue them if they tried to ban DRM. Honestly, that is a battle I would love to see...

@Ichijoe2112

11 ай бұрын

I suspect the American Broadcasters are taking some notes from the European (Mostly German Broadcasters of which there are Two) The First is provided courtesy of the Government, and unless your basically Def / Dumb AND BLIND. You are required to pay 20€s a month for (as makes no odds it's actually more like 18€ but, I digress.) The Second is the so-called Private Broadcasters, and I think this is where the model stems. As it stands we can still watch the Bog-Standard SD Broadcasts over Cable, or Satellite. We also have Terrestrial DVB-T2 which like ATSC-3 has SIM Card Encryption. Which is needed to watch their HD, and the one odd 4k Channel. That Sub costs 5€ a month or about 80€ a year, and yes they have Commercials, though not as many, as in the us, and they also tend to be shown at the half-hour marks, instead of ever 5 minutes or so in the US. So yes this is an obvious money grab.

I am glad that most all new TV's today still do NOT include ATSC 3 tuners! That will at least delay the mandate much longer as ATSC3 pretty much seems like the end of free OTA TV at this point.

@patrickmartin4996

10 ай бұрын

It will be sometime too.

Q: If internet is required for firmware updates and DRM keys, what happens when the OEM goes bankrupt or stops supporting firmware/security updates and DRM keys? A: You have a doorstop.

@igeekone

11 ай бұрын

Oh wow! That's an excellent thought. Yup, this is turning out to be a worst case scenario.

@bloggerccc

11 ай бұрын

I "lived" that experience. My Livio radio is now a brick because the company whose website made the Internet connection went broke and Livio provided no means to alter it or enter a replacement web address. It still powers up but reports a "Connection Error." Thousands affected.

@Ichijoe2112

11 ай бұрын

All the more chilling as this thing has all the quality of almost every Android (4.4 Kit-Kat), Box I've ever seen. Needless to say I wouldn't hold much breath for any firmware update, forced or no. Better to save a few pennies more, and wait for the HD Homerun. At least this Company has a better track-record.

@patrickmartin4996

10 ай бұрын

Face it, the average viewer is not going to go through all of that just to get OTA TV. OTA TV has been making a come back the past few years. Leave it alone, or it will go back to where it was or go away as there will be few viewers. Add to that in a short time the way the fees are going up with cable/satellite, the average viewer will be priced out anyway. At $24 a month to get locals off cable, viewers are going to OTA and Free streaming.

One of the dangers of DRM is region blocking so that if you don't live in the right area you can't watch the channel. This comes into effect for Canadians who normally can pick up US stations.

@patrickmartin4996

11 ай бұрын

At this point I am not interested in 3.0. Too many issues, who knows what the ending will be?

@kalijasin

10 ай бұрын

@@patrickmartin4996 Sounds like they are trying to turn atsc 3.0 into some non- cord cutting thing.

@patrickmartin4996

10 ай бұрын

@@kalijasin Since most new TV's do not have 3.0, it will be years until it would be a reality. I am nearly 75 and 1.0 may be around for the rest of my life.

@kalijasin

10 ай бұрын

@@patrickmartin4996 NAB said, "91% of households that have displays with an HDMI input, but are not equipped with NEXTGEN TV technology."

@patrickmartin4996

10 ай бұрын

@@kalijasin That may be available as most everything of mine has HDMI as well and Composite but it may be pain to run an HDMI cord over to the TV. 3.0 is getting too complicated. OTA TV is supposed to be plug & play, even with an antenna. Now with DRM, Internet connection, and whatever else. Streaming is so much easily.

The thing that makes the internet connection requirement especially idiotic is that if you have decent internet, you already have a superior video delivery technology in place - IP video supports 4K, modern codecs and sound. There's no earthly reason to set up a new, redundant video delivery method via OTA ATSC 3.0. Just scrap the whole OTA system and have local stations broadcast via IP. Don't like that idea, broadcasters? Then quit farting around with DRM and have OTA be free and unencumbered, as it always has been. Otherwise you're just making your own business (broadcasting) pointless.

@bloggerccc

11 ай бұрын

Not so simple. Without a broadcast, the "Must-carry" rule won't kick in for mandatory carriage on cable systems. That may be the reason some stations remain on the air, at all. The increase in Internet traffic could be unmanageable if this were to happen quickly. Note the difficulties predicted for mandating that electric vehicles must replace IC engines. There isn't enough of anything needed to support the move. At 80, I'm out of the loop but I try to keep up.

They require online so they can capture metrics for ratings for live TV. There’s no way the broadcast companies would do it another way. They would rather tank the entire platform than not get ratings they can use to charge advertisers for.

@keyboard_g

11 ай бұрын

I agree. It is BS.

@ericB3444

11 ай бұрын

MUAHAHAHAH

@jmr

11 ай бұрын

If they don't want to serve us properly others would like that bandwidth.

@rsdigiomoney

11 ай бұрын

Ur right. But it just makes no sense because If they tank the whole platform they won’t be able to sell ANY ads at all. Lol so short sighted greedy and stupid

@MaNameizJeff

11 ай бұрын

There might be the case where the decryption keys is not stored internally. They may actually have it where the keys must always be obtained on use so that it can be changed on the fly. That would stop all the previous faults where once the key is known there is no taking it back. I have not followed the design around of this guy though. Doing something like "You can't view abc unless you give us your metrics" seems kind of silly... no one does that.

If OTA needs internet connectivity to watch TV, then it's useless to me. The part of this whole 3.0 thing that worried me even before the DRM was the anti-privacy aspects if they enforced the network connectivity part of the spec. If I can't passively watch signals over the air without being tracked by advertisers, then I'm opting out, ahoy!

@jkeelsnc

11 ай бұрын

Yes. Consumers need to make it fail.

Considering that broadcast viewership is declining you would think that they would do everything in their power to make it as easy as possible to view their content.

@jfbeam

11 ай бұрын

Independent broadcaster... sure. The networks... want everyone to pay to watch their crap. (they all have their own streaming platforms)

@jkeelsnc

11 ай бұрын

That is not how a business works. They are always looking for new ways to separate money from your wallet. I mean mostly large corporations. Anyway, Atsc 3 is ruined. Consumers need to make it fail.

@nsfeliz7825

11 ай бұрын

maybe they want to destroy ota tv.

Screw this DRM BS. I'm glad I watched this video. I was going to buy this but not now.

Thanks Lon, great job as usual and this DRM stuff really pisses me off. There is no way you should need an internet connection, I violently agree with you. I am thinking for all the folks that don't have the money or don't want to spend the money on cable, or streaming services. Every person should be able to watch the local channels for free.

@jfbeam

11 ай бұрын

How else is it supposed to get the key(s)? The way DISH/DTV/Cable works, they have to know every authorized device to transmit a code specific to that device.

@kensmith5694

11 ай бұрын

@@jfbeam There is no good reason for keys to be needed. Over the air TV has worked as a model for over 50 years now.

@strouja

11 ай бұрын

@jfbeam then they could do it over the air along with the video and audio to transmit. There’s no need at all whatsoever for Internet connection. But I disagreed with the whole idea of needing keys at all. As a gentleman said below for 50 years, they never needed them and now all of a sudden they do.

@jfbeam

11 ай бұрын

@@stroujaNo, it can't be done over the air. Did we learn nothing from the DVD CCA ("deCSS") bull****? Putting static keys anywhere defeats the whole purpose of encryption. Yes, encryption in the OTA system is THE dumbest shit ever, but that's the world we live in. (everyone wants to get paid, more than once, for everything.) Remember, this is the same industry that bitched for years over VCRs.

@jkeelsnc

11 ай бұрын

@@jfbeamthey don’t need keys and they don’t need DRM. F em.

The Nextgen masterminds are all pushing Nextgen certified devices, but even with this certified equipment DRM is not working without picture freeze and other hiccups not seen on non-DRM ATSC 3.0 channels. If DRM on ATSC 3.0 doesn't get under control, people will spread the word fast and avoid this technology before it even gets started. There are too my other options out there to watch TV.

@jkeelsnc

11 ай бұрын

It’s already ruined and I don’t care. Atsc 3.0 needs to fail and die. It should become nothing more than a footnote in broadcast history.

Another example of DRM making the experience worse for the consumers trying to legally consume content and at the same time not being able to stop piracy.

The distance to carry my TV to put it out at the curb is a bit long to do in one go but when the signals I want to watch are encrypted, I will not be watching TV any more. I am not going to be plugging a TV into the internet. I can have a computer and just watch stuff from the internet at that point.

I understand this is Gen 1 but that's one step above a paperweight

I just plugged mine back in to see if ADTH was making any improvements. I'm pleasantly surprised. Seems to be working much better now.

ADTH are a major manufacturer for TV networks that sell their own rebranded boxes.

@AAa-qd8hb

11 ай бұрын

Don't trust anyone. Spyware?

@GadgetAddict

11 ай бұрын

I've never heard anything bad about them as a company. They're pretty well known for selling hardware that TV networks rebrand under their own name. One of their portable DTV products was being sold by a major TV network here in the Philippines. That TV network was shutdown and ADTH stepped in to release a generic version of the app, so that people could still use the hardware. (The original app relied on connecting to servers managed by the TV network that sold the device). As far as I know, they were also the only company that had the encryption keys for the few encrypted channels at the time.

For what, 60? 70? plus years you could just put an antenna or even a coat hanger on a TV and get whatever is available in your area, and now this ATSC 3.0 stuff

ATSC 3.0 just keeps getting worse. Really when it requires an internet connection to work, it's very similar to any other senseless form of always online DRM, with Xbox in particular being the best comparison I can draw from. Everyone remembers Xbox network outage happened and caused everyone to be unable to play the games they actually own, and that was largely caused by the Xbox Series X|S as well as any model of Xbox One requiring an active internet connection at all times. There was no CMOS battery or even offline mode like Steam to fall back in case of an outage. Bottom line, encryption sucks for ATSC 3.0, as does always online DRM.

@billfusionenterprise

11 ай бұрын

seen story about playsation battery death???

@polarvortex6601

11 ай бұрын

NOPE its just a cable box for ota tv

@Jayrod64

11 ай бұрын

@@billfusionenterprise Yes. It still sucks that there's a battery in there that can potentially die and make your system unusable, but the difference is that's a backup in case you have no internet connection at some point(even then it's limited what you can do offline).

@billfusionenterprise

11 ай бұрын

@@Jayrod64 ps3, limited, ps4, oops, look it up, there are several videos on it

@billfusionenterprise

11 ай бұрын

@@polarvortex6601 shh, public might find out before it is too late

this is the review I was waiting for!

I have the tuner and started as you did as an OTA tuner late one night. Channels were scanned, with the ATSC 3.0 Program Guide was able to load that night. The ATSC 1.0 guide was there the bext morning. It works w/o the internet. Connecting the internet next day (via WI-FI) allows you to access additiinal info if the channel broadcasts it. You will see on screen a right click on remote to access it. I don't know if the unit auto updated overnight becauae it wasn't needed when done manually. A signal strength display is needed to show low, dropouts, or signal overload. My quality of signal will improve on a few channels once the leaves fall. I have a Samsung TV with a 3.0 tuner that has signal diags. They both scan the same amoint of channels but will connect the Samsung to the internet to see if it can get the additional info broadcasted on a few channels. More testing the weekend. Be patirnt when configuring.

I received my ADTH Nextgen box yesterday there were two upgrades and they help make the tuner run faster

@ipavemyownroad

5 ай бұрын

My box says there are no updates available, and the DRMed channels aren't being decoded

I just got my ADTH box today. setting it up was ridiculous. the first time you turn it on it should walk you through everything you need to do to set it up, including a channel scan. I updated the box, now when I check for an update it says one is available, tries to download and install it, fails, and keeps popping up the window that says an update is available. The only way to get it to go away is to unplug the box. All of my ATSC 3.0 channels are sputtering, encrypted or not. I checked the signal strength on my HDhomerun and it was sitting at about 52%, which is a little on the low side, but ATSC 3 is supposed to function at lower signal qualities. It's not fair to compare this to the tuner on the HDHomerun, as its one of the best on the market, but the HDhomerun had no problems playing back the unencrypted channels. I'm going to put this away for right now and hope its not a $100 mistake.

Lon, Thank you very much!

Great overview. Appreciate all the information. I was uninformed on 3.0, but this provided just about everything I looked for in what to expect and current state of implementation. It also unfortunately realized some of the fears. Broadcast is one foot in the grave. There is no money, maybe not enough, in providing entertainment for free that is only add supported OTA. I've dropped cable a couple years back, and now I will have to buy new TVs or use stupid external boxes that have wait times worse than Samsung TV Plus. Yes, this is definitely for the betterment of the tax payers that support OTA.

Thanks Lon!

After several updates I’m Impressed with it. PQ is much better now

Yikes! So, you're telling me, if my internet goes offline I don't get to watch OTA TV?! At that point, streaming makes more sense when you're required to have a always active internet connection. This is the worst of DRM.

@AAa-qd8hb

11 ай бұрын

It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

The ORIGINAL "DRM" that killed live TV was the Cable companies like Time-Warner back-in-the-day charging high prices for access. Please support local Public Libraries so poor folks can at least take out some DVD!

@CommodoreFan64

11 ай бұрын

I'm all for physical media as I own a lot of stuff on DVD, and Blu-Ray, but an ONN Google TV streaming box that can do 4K is 20 bucks, and poor people can apply for the FCC Affordable Connectivity Program that gives upwards of 30 bucks a month per household(75 bucks on qualifying tribal lands)towards internet service which would make something like T-Mobile Home internet 20 bucks a month, and there are tons of free legal streaming services with more content than most libraries have to offer.

@DigitalDiabloUK

11 ай бұрын

Disney are killing physical media in Australasia - physical media only has a limited life cycle I'm afraid.

@patrickmartin4996

10 ай бұрын

I have a huge collection of video tapes & DVDs through the years. I would not live long enough to watch them all.

Zapperbox is very open with their customers about DRM. "Content Security (aka DRM/encrypted channels): * v2.2 release of content security support will require an Internet connection. * Content security without an Internet connection (unconnected mode) will be supported around December 2023. * v2.2 release will not support recording and playback of secure content, that is planned for v2.3 in October 2023" ATSC 3 may fall into corruption through crony-capitalism (TV stations being paid through the FCC), but Zapperbox is communicating with their customers all along the way!

I just hope ATSC 1.0 stays on a very long time..

@poppy87

10 ай бұрын

I think eventually network affiliates will see thst this was a waste if money; plus, FASTS are the real future.

PLEASE keep fighting the good fight!!

Moved like this will sound the death knell for OTA TV.

Lon I just downloaded a update to the ADTH BOX and it seems to be working properly. I think you should do an update video and check the HDMI output again.

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

I'll take a look!

@ipavemyownroad

5 ай бұрын

How did you get the update to download? Mine says there are no updates available.

At this point it's a good idea to open the next gen tv boxes to see what's inside them .

Captain Greenacres here! I got two of these boxes in time for the beginning of the NFL season alongside my first ever 4K display. I wasn't disappointed. However, I had better luck receiving ATSC 3.0 out of Miami, as the lighthouse in West Palm Beach is low power. In addition to WTVJ's lighthouse, with WPBT 2, CBS 4, NBC 6, Univision 23, and Telemundo 51, WPLG launched their NextGen lighthouse today with WSVN also participating, thus bringing NextGen TV to all major networks in South Florida. But that pesky DRM remains a major issue. For now, when it comes to receiving such signals, these boxes are the only game in town...

Someone needs to start a petition to lobby the FCC (or congress) to change the rules so that DRM is not allowed on OTA TV (or OTA radio for that mater)

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

Already done click the link in the description :)

@AAa-qd8hb

11 ай бұрын

Nextgen-tv people lied to the public that it is better perfect. It is not perfect. It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

@bigkahuna2084

11 ай бұрын

Looks like somebody hasn't been paying attention to you, wise one! 😉

Encrypted channels… Defective by design. Broken out of the box.

@jerryspann8713

11 ай бұрын

All in favor of the shitty cable companies. Good OTA signals available to everyone for free would hurt the rebroadcast industry. So let's force you to keep paying these greedy fucks, just to watch TV.

@AAa-qd8hb

11 ай бұрын

It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

I'm failing to understand how this breaks DRM when it requires an internet connection to decrypt it. A device that requires an internet connection to decrypt OTA TV is not fit for purpose as far as I'm concerned.

@GadgetAddict

11 ай бұрын

If it's true that the encryption keys are meant to rotate or change often, I guess that's why they made it so that the box will check for the latest key, every time you open a channel. Maybe they could just cache the key, and only try to update it on the occasion that it finally fails.

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

It’s broken in that the hdmi port is free and clear. If their objective was to prevent retransmission they are failing at that here .

@jhensjh

11 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman That sounds more like a broken HDCP implementation, which is not that unusual given how many 4K devices have HDMI issues. To say that this device has broken ATSC 3.0 DRM implies that it can decrypt the signal without needing the encryption keys. That this device requires an internet connection in order to decrypt ATSC 3.0 indicates that it has not broken broken the DRM.

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

@@jhensjh Given the rigor of the certification process the fact it has HDMI issues weakens their argument that this is all about hacking and "deep fakes." If it was important they would have ensured it was working on day one - especially as the FCC has an open docket on the transition.

During hurricane Sandy we were lucky and didnt loose power but we didnt have internet, cable or telephone for a week. We were able to watch tv OTA. I do not like the sound of this DRM.

Can't wait to see when we have a major event that caused widespread power/internet outages. I'm in NWCT and can't get much on my antenna, and I only use my antenna in an emergency. What ever happened to serving public?

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

Just like Eversource , they only care about money now, not us.

I am wondering if the stuttering problem is being caused by overheating since the device will throttle down if it gets to hot. It looks like a generic Google/Android TV box modified into an OTA tuning device. I suspect the HDCP being off will be fixed in a future OTA update since I do not see the A3SA being happy about that fact. It is disappointing their is no guide data for ATSC 1.0 channels since they will be around for the foreseeable future.

Did you try an RF attenuator just in case the receiver is hot and being over driven?

I'd buy the one you reviewed, but the problem with it always being connected to the internet means it could "fix" the DRM at any point.

Frankly, I'm holding off of buying this and any future ATSC 30. Converters as from what I understand they will all have to decode the DRM signals when the FCC as stated. I know that is still in question, but as more converters have DRM's decoded it will become an industry wide setup soon enough. As for this converter, the remote already put me off as well as the obvious constant connection to the internet! That is too fishy to me right now. 😯And the DRM restriction...What restrictions! 🤨 Again it's as fishy as a large grouper!!! To me so many local broadcasting channels are owned by huge media corprorations, it could be a way to push people to get their local channels on the internet as cable is on its way out.

Confusing. How would the DRM content provider prevent the HDMI output from being used in whatever way the consumer wants?

@dedicatedmusiclistener2301

10 ай бұрын

HDMI has drm as well

Bless you Lon for reviewing this dog of a device on your own dime so that everyone else can avoid it.

Good report, thanks. But, you failed to tell about the A/V output and that is the reason I wanted this tuner for portable location antenna testing. Using a few A/V breakout cables and adapters I was only able to get the analog stereo audio, no video, although at one time I was able to briefly get video but it did not have horizontal sync. I have ordered an HDMI to analog composite video adapter to see if that will work for me. I already bought a portable rechargeable 12 V lithium ion battery and, fortunately, the connector cable was compatible with the tuner. Also, it has two tuners, not one. It has one ATSC 1 tuner and one ATSC 3 tuner.

@CoCoNutBob

11 ай бұрын

Why not just get a cheap HDMI monitor ffs? Composite video is low bandwidth eye poison.

The DRM will be hacked once ATSC 3 is rolled out to more metro areas and becomes the norm. Whether it’s through software or tuner emulators or a simple hardware tweak. All DRM/limiting and controlling use does is develop creative ways to get past it.

@dwild92

11 ай бұрын

I don’t know how the encryption is implemented but the fact that it needs to download the decrypting key each time point toward them changing the keys from time to time. There’s probably nothing to break security wise, you’ll need the new keys to decrypt it.

@jfbeam

11 ай бұрын

Indeed. It never stopped people from pirating DTV, and they've put many millions behind protecting the system.

@jfbeam

11 ай бұрын

@@dwild92 Yes, the key(s) change, otherwise, there'd be no point. I suspect the picture stutter is the device being rather stupid with key management. It never actually stops, but skips like there's a bad signal; this screams "I can't multitask" to me. (it stops video decoding while it asks for a "new" key.)

We have a couple of recent large screen Sony TVs at work which are recent enough to have ATSC3 tuners. The TV isn't connected to the network, but it does successfully receive the Boston area NextGen channels. It displays the same "waiting" animation whenever you tune one of the 3.0 channels. Really not liking this.

Did the recent updates help with performance?

I just got this box and it works ok for me. I don't DVR over-the-air signals anyway. I did overlook that this has an Android operating system and if I have known that I wouldn't bought it as Android is slow. The remote is poorly design when it comes to the colors of the buttons. Manual station tuning are about impossible as I know channel numbers, but they want frequency numbers entered.

If all drm device act live this, than as a cord cutter I don't want it. It's a waist of money 💰 🤑 .

DRM: Security by obscurity. It would be "interesting" to perform some packet captures to determine where the DRM keys are hosted. By the OEM, broadcasters, ATSC, A3SA, or NextgenTV. Or is that spelled out in the specifications behind some paywall?

@jfbeam

11 ай бұрын

HDCP doesn't protect shit either. There are PLENTY of devices that have "certification" that ignore the rules.

Do you think will network tuners can ever be approved for nextgentv atsc3 or only HDMI tuners?

I'm new to OTA and trying to figure out how to cut the cable. This device appears to me to need an internet connection to download encryption keys from a host. It's similar to some devices used years ago for satellite TV. The problem is the key may be changed almost anytime and require a host to recapture the key and then make it available to owners of the boxes for signal decryption. There may be a lag in the process when that happens.

I was driving on the Berling Turnpike yesterday and passed right by all those New Braitain Transportation strikers.

HDCP means nothing when you plug it in a capture card sometimes if it can strip the hdcp. HDCP enabling is pointless until a different input is invented with proper protection. HDCP only prevents the copying off of the device itself like remoting into it mostly as a result. Should point out 4k is locked out not 1080p because 4k gets a lot tricker when no devices can output 4k at a cheap price. You are correct about hdcp not being enabled it should been locked out on your elgato device. They released a firmware update its now at 1.0.75.

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

Yeah that’s the firmware I’m on - I downloaded an update yesterday.

@timbo303official9

11 ай бұрын

I just realized my pc monitor is hdcp 1.4 which may explain why I am able to bypass hdcp. Hdcp 2.2 requires a splitter where as hdcp versions below don't. That's why 4k rips are hard to come by like I said as hdcp 2.2 supports 4k and will likely degrade the quality slightly.@@LonSeidman

I recently purchased this to use at my home in the Austin Tx area. There are two lighthouse stations in Austin (with 4 channels each) and the ADTH saw all 8 channels, however it would only play stations from one lighthouse. The other stations would stay with the loading spinner. For the lighthouse station that DID work, I experienced the same stuttering with playback. Needless to say, I decided to just return it. It’s not worth the headache and stuttering. At the end of the day it’s an Android device with a tv tuner. The UI is extremely difficult to get used to.

It's probably like FCC certification. Manufacturers/distributors use a third party lab that evaluates the product and attests to its compliance and the FCC pretty much says ok sounds good.

How is the quality of the Tuner on 1.0 and 3.0? Sensitive?

this just applicable for OTA or will it work with cable?

question what is the usb port for ?

Frequent software updates have improved both the performance and usability of this device. Most of the issues you complain about have been addressed (over many OS builds, some of which were disastrous). The remote is not all that difficult to use and again updates make it more than acceptable. The company is incredibly responsive to emails. But whining about a box costing under $100 is ridiculous! With a simple roof antenna I receive around 50 channels. The picture and sound on the network channels is incredibly good and dramatically better than cable (100" screen, Sony laser projector). You ought to revisit this product..

Encrypted or not ATSC3 does not work without internet. Comcast has been working on the coax in my area for a couple of weeks now. No internet no NEXT-GEN TV. I have a brand new 2023 LG OLED and it couldn’t tune in the channels and neither could my HD Homerun. For me ATSC 1 is better. I’m in CT and get stations from multiple markets. I think that won’t be the case when ATSC 1 is turned off. 😢

It would be interesting to do a Wireshark capture on the ethernet port to see what traffic is going where and when.

@LonSeidman That was a good video. I think you were fair about the pros and cons of this box. That part about the recording really does make me mad though. I had similar success recording on an old Hauppauge PVR from this box, but I thought it was my HDMI splitter stripping the HDCP. To hear that you did it with just an HDMI cable--the DRM is nonsense. Meanwhile it seems like SiliconDust (from looking at their forums) is jumping through hoops to try to unencrypt channels on their box. I bought this box instead of a (better) HD Homerun because it was "certified" and "unencrypted" and its just ridiculous. Sorry about the rant.

Hey Lon are you reviewing the new Tablo 4th Gen this week? 🎉🎉🎉

Thanks for doing this video. Pass for me. Are there any updates on the HDHomeRun DRM software?

This is my kinda company right here 😎

The first iteration for Zapperbox will also require the internet connection. They claim a near future upgrade will eliminate that requirement. Zapper box claims they will have DRM working around Sept 18. Fingers crossed.

@danbowling5594

11 ай бұрын

Yes

So, if someone doesn’t have a home internet service, and all of the local channels are encrypted, they won’t have access to any OTA channels?

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

Unfortunately yes that's the case with this one.

I guess the REAL question about DRM is what will be it’s ultimate purpose or goal? Definitely not to sell little decoder box’s like this one. I’m very much afraid this is only step one of the ultimate goal to require a monthly payment in order to continue watching that channel! Very much like SirusXM satellite radio. You must pay to play their channels. Notice the FCC remains mum about what’s quietly taking place. Except for US public techies, the remainder of the country is totally ignorant of what’s going on! Whatever happened to government transparency❓

@jfwfreo

11 ай бұрын

The DRM on OTA TV is about 2 things. First its about stopping piracy (I have seen many instances online of content that has been illegally copied and that has the logo of a US OTA network in the corner) and second its about limiting DVR functionality (specifically things that make it possible to skip the ads)

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

And a third- force consumers into expensive tv subscription plans.

@jfwfreo

11 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman There is no evidence to back up any claims that the OTA networks want to make people pay for OTA TV pulled down with an antenna (and they wouldn't be able to get away with such a thing)

@AAa-qd8hb

11 ай бұрын

Nextgen-tv people lied to the public that it is better perfect. It is not perfect. It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

@jkeelsnc

11 ай бұрын

It never was transparent

I'd be surprised if you couldn't attach this to Tvheadend and use the DVR features, I have a dual tuner DVB-T2 and it works great even though I pay £70 a month for Sky 🙄

So if it requires a net connection why not just use the net for viewing? If this goes full blown then my antenna goes to scrap.

I think in the future they will defeat direct capture. Right now they are probably monitoring what you watch and sell that data. They will always make money. It's just sad that free broadcast TV will soon be a thing of the past.

@DaveNLR2

11 ай бұрын

Probably going the way of England. Pay to watch everything.

@drphibesrises

11 ай бұрын

@@DaveNLR2 Yes can't forget about a TV license

Technically, if you have an HDMI capture device (you can get one for about $15), you can record shows onto your computer using this tuner.

Ya know I like the new ATSC 3.0 TV. I got a 4k nextgen tuner TV. I like the sound and the HDR features. I watched this video a long time ago and put a unit in my Amazon cart put never pulled the triger. I seen one KZread video talking about the Bata he has on his box that lets him record now. I just wonder if they have upgraded the recording function on this unit? I have one that records in mpeg2 format. I am hoping for one that will record in mpeg 4 or better. Just saying I do not really care about the 3.0 channels due to there is nothing on them that is really worth watching in 4k. It is just the same boring stuff we can get on 1.0 tuners. I love the METV type of channels. Point being the 3.0 tuners seem to pick the 1.0 up better.

Hope it stays broken.

Live TV's still a thing? (Kidding.) But seriously, I haven't had use for live TV since shortly after ATSC 1.0 came out. The requirement for an internet connection to tune the broadcasts in is ludicrous. You can't call it "free over-the-air" if someone has to pay for an internet connection to receive it. Yes, we've always had to pay for the electricity it took to run the set, but that's an inherent requirement of the technology. The internet connection is *NOT* required for this to work. It's copyright flexing and nothing more. But again, since the last major OTA TV revolution, I switched first to cable and then to streaming, so I guess I shouldn't care? I guess it bothers me for two reasons: 1) They're taking advantage of people's ignorance around technology to lead them to believe that absolutely not integral technology is absolutely required, and 2) IT'S REGRESSIVE. When I was growing up, we had literally no money left over for entertainment. If I hadn't had free OTA NTSC, I would have had nothing but three or four torn up books and the radio. Literally that's all. An internet connection could take that option away from today's poor. And yes, everyone should care about that.

@jkeelsnc

11 ай бұрын

Yes, but what is even on TV now that is even good for young minds? Didn’t you even have a public library in your area? Most things on TV are useless now anyway. Some PBS programming is OK. Most of the rest of it is mindless drivel (esp “reality” tv). News is useless now. Almost all of it save for one radio network source and won’t even mention it because then it reveals political division and people are ready to shoot or strangle each other over it now.

I wonder if they are also using the internet connection to collect viewer data such as what’s being watched, whether you change channels during commercials and if you don’t watch programs all the way through. Your data is always up for sale to someone.

You don’t understand what’s going on. If the unit “calls home”, it’s getting the key. As soon as calling home doesn’t work anymore, oh say because the company is facing a lawsuit, they don’t give keys anymore and it stops working. Do this: figure out what this box is phoning home to.

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

I understand what is going on - if they were serious about preventing retransmission they’d encrypt the HDMI. Clearly they’re not.

so... what are we doing with ATSC 3 again? is it for hopefully 4k streams? is HD still going to remain on the old? Because I can think of a massive amount of lawsuits if abc/cbs/nbc go dark again for all existing hardware.

@jkeelsnc

11 ай бұрын

Let it go dark. There isn’t much on anyway.

I don't believe their goal is to actually make the platform "make sense" or secure. In my opinion, the goal is to make it so confusing for most consumers that they don't bother trying to figure it out... and go back to spending a significant amount of money on cable or subscritpions.

tried and failed no way to record untill middle of this yr ??? still didn t fix buffering atsc 3.0 sensitive.. however need to rotate rescane per city... donot reccomend it.. returned for refund

The constant stuttering is because it seems like a buffering issue that could be due to many reasons, too slow of a CPU, not enough alocated Ram for the buffer and runs out (could also be in combination of that and a CPU thats too slow). Or just simply a software bug.

They haven't sent me my ADTH box yet. I went to Alibaba and ordered a Dcolor AirGo TV ATSC 3.0 it works without internet connection it has widevine,playready pnly L3 not L1 they are not useing DRM in my broadcast area so i dont know how it works. from watching your video it sounds like the A02 box works beter. I dont get as many staiton on ATSC 1.0 on the same antenna as my Hisense RokuTV.

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

Interesting.. I'm curious if a third party box could decrypt signals without having to get certified.

If you have to use the internet to watch OTA what is even the point anymore

@patrickmartin4996

11 ай бұрын

There is none.

Do you think DRM will prevent you from receiving OTA from stations outside your local area? For example Cable TV in RI doesn't have Boston OTA channels only RI. Do you think DRM when plugged into your internet will detect your IP, know the location and prevent for example someone in RI from receiving Boston or CT even thought they can with ATSC 1.0 ?

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

It's entirely possible based on what I'm seeing here!

@AAa-qd8hb

11 ай бұрын

It is worst. Your electronic serial number is tracking you. You may be arrested for going outside of your viewing zone. 15 minute city rules to control everyone.

@n1kkri

11 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman This is pretty scary stuff without laws put in place. Digital and the controls they can put on what you watch and listen to will be the future. If they did block you from watching out of the "LOCAL" viewing area, I could see it happening with the future of AM/FM broadcasting. You want to know what's going on in the next State you will have to pay royalties.

but, the politicians said no internet is required to watch next gen tv broadcasts. they wouldn't lie, would they?

Just had your video randomly hit my recommended videos. As I watched the video I wondered if this is a blatant way to break free to air laws established years ago? The laws made to ensure people had free access to information and emergency services by radio and then amended to cover television? Does this mean average lower income families will not have access to the little information and warnings they get now? Is there any kind of protection laws in place to require stations to drop encryption during an emergency or government broadcast? #FCC #ARRL #Safety

6:20 I dont think they really care, otherwise they would have fiqured that out before they brought it to market! BUT thanx for giving them a heads up since YOU paid for the box. So they can charge you more money for a over-engineered box.

I'm curious about their USB Dongle tuner.

@ericB3444

11 ай бұрын

Sony girl is YOUS curious Georgie plus.

@robertmason7013

11 ай бұрын

I was thinking about calling the company and ask when it's coming out. I'm guessing the cast for probably about $50.

So ATSC 3.0 with encryption means no more watching a TV in the boondocks on a generator.

lets see a new 2024 rescan please considering buying for experimental issues

Your link for the fcc petition instructions doesn’t work

@LonSeidman

11 ай бұрын

Strange it’s working here - what browser are you using ?

@rsdigiomoney

11 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman interesting.. I’m using safari on iPad. I’ll try again on my computer