The big B-52 strikes over Vietnam were the last time we'd ever see these huge mass bomber formations. No more "Aluminum Overcast".

@devintariel3769

Жыл бұрын

Give it time

@marcbeebee6969

Жыл бұрын

Lol the future will Show us drone Formations

@gort8203

Жыл бұрын

Actually there were no huge mass bomber formations over Vietnam, unless you consider a 3 ship cell a huge formation. That was the formation typically used during Arc Light missions in the South. Operation Linebacker in the North started with long streams of individual bombers rather than mass formations, which was more comparable to RAF bomber command than 8th Air Force tactics in WWII. When this tactic led to unacceptable losses the aircraft were allowed to operate in shorter streams and approach the targets from varied directions.

@JohnJohansen2

Жыл бұрын

I'm sure the Vietnamese found their sky somewhat overcast at some points in time.

@WvlfDarkfire

Жыл бұрын

A sad thing it is. Never forget the lives lost.

It makes me wonder what the hell was going through the minds of those in charge. I had a mate who served in Lancasters and his baptism of fire was the Nuremberg raid. He said it was one of the most incredible things he had ever seen. An interesting note, my friend came to Australia, met a German and they became instant and life long friends. The German often joked with the mate "You Pommy bastard, you tried to kill me!". Sadly they are both long gone now but two wonderful men.

@normannokes9513

Жыл бұрын

The B17 bristled with guns in all positions. RAF bombers were unprotected underside which was part of the design. Night operations were a period of slaughter for German fighters fitted with shrage musik. Wolfgang Schnauffer destroyed 7 Lancs in one night. Appalling losses in Nuremburg raid fell victim to this device/

Sadly, at the time of the raids over Schweinfurt (my father was a gunner in both of them), the P-47's would have been perfectly able to escort the bombers for the entire mission - if the powers-that-be had been willing to let them use the drop tanks that were sitting, unused, in warehouses. The reason why they were not used? To this day, I don't think anyone really knows. They worked perfectly well, much later in the war, when the P-47's were finally equipped with them. And after my father became the sole survivor of two aircrews...

@ying20000818

Жыл бұрын

Do keep in mind that the drop tanks would have severely impacted the P-47's performance. With higher drag (from both higher skin drag and induced drag due to higher weight), this would have resulted in a lower top-speed and considerably worse agility, which could have made them sitting ducks against FW109s (relatively) in a dog-fight. This most likely would have meant that they would have jettisoned their drop tanks the moment an engagement occurred, which yes, would have allowed them to escort the bombers a bit longer but I doubt it would have been for the entire mission.

@drudgenemo7030

Жыл бұрын

@@ying20000818 you mean like the ones the p47 and the p51, among many others, both carried from 1944 on? And the p47 was plumbed starting with the b model in 42

@TeenWithACarrotIDK

Жыл бұрын

@@drudgenemo7030 the p47 was upgraded throughout other war to create more and more power, but I’m sure there might have been a way to fix the problem with the drop tanks.

@drudgenemo7030

Жыл бұрын

@@TeenWithACarrotIDK The p47 was operating with 108s in British service 3 months before we schwinefort. That puts the range up against the limits with the early conservative reserve requirements, but indeed in that range. The lack of escorts was based on doctrine by the brass, and if you shuffle the numbers (it was British tanks after all), it exonerates them from responsibility, but if you look at dates and and official records of the 8th AF itself, it's simply not true that the p47 couldn't do it.

@drudgenemo7030

Жыл бұрын

But from the B model ferry tanks were available simply to make it easier to get the jug to theater. No those specific tanks were not suitable for combat, but the aircraft was quite capable of using tanks, and the British paper tanks were indeed used in combat prior to those "unescortable" raids.

Schweinfurt was not an airplane factory town. It stressed ball bearings.

@davidcomtedeherstal

Жыл бұрын

Anyway, it was no victory for the Alies.

@recoil53

Жыл бұрын

Which were necessary for aircraft engines. Ball bearing factories were prime targets for that reason. They must be made with some precision, of the right alloys and the right heat treatment. They need to be polished.

@CathodeRayNipplez

Жыл бұрын

I thought a Schweinfurt was a form of pork sausage

@alexius23

Жыл бұрын

@@CathodeRayNipplez a lot of US aircrews died on those two missions

@alexius23

Жыл бұрын

@@recoil53 totally agree. USAAF planners tried to find the crucial industry to strike to break the metaphoric back of the German war industry. Under Albert Speer there was increased production not less…..of course that is a simple answer to very complex problems

The B-17s would have had more fighter cover if 8th AF command wasn't so adamantly opposed to adding drop tanks to the P47s. That would have taken the fighter escort to nearly 50 miles from the target. Not optimal, but better than what happened.

@MattKearneyFan1

Жыл бұрын

Adding them would cause loss of maneuverability but still would give them extra range

@TheUnknowncaller12

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was watching a video the other day about some of the statistics on the P 47’s ability to be a long range, escort were purposely slanted in the direction of P 51. Even though the P 47 was less fuel efficient, it could carry a lot more than the P 51 so even though the P 51 could do it on considerably less fuel the fact that they didn’t simply just make a bigger drop to put on the P 47 so that it could take the B-17’s and B-24’s to and from Germany they opted to just wait for the P 51’s to come over from America and replace them. How many good American and British airman died over lobbying and political bullshit of the men furthest from danger. They should’ve all been put on trial just like the Nazi war criminals. Nobody in a uniform should’ve been able to benefit financially at the cost of good American and British soldiers.

@MattKearneyFan1

Жыл бұрын

@@TheUnknowncaller12 war gave us lessons but don’t blame the men in the uniform.

@g8ymw

Жыл бұрын

@@MattKearneyFan1 Would it? You dump the drop tanks as you engage the enemy fighters, that's how the Mustangs were used

@MattKearneyFan1

Жыл бұрын

@@g8ymw the mustang was more maneuverable than the 47

My grandfather was a belly gunner in a B17. His plane was among those lost that day. He was taken as a POW.

The entry of the *P-51D* Mustang was the critical factor. The P-51B was already in theater as a ground attack aircraft, but not an escort.

@joannedickie7863

Жыл бұрын

It just needed the Rolls Royce Merlin to make it an effective long range, high altitude fighter.

@galier2

Жыл бұрын

The P47 could have the same range as the P51D but was crippled by the bad decision of no allowing it external fuel tanks. See Greg's aircraft channel video on the P47 to see the evidence with original documents that the Thunderbolt could have taken the role of the P51 a year earlier.

@andrewallen9993

Жыл бұрын

@@galier2You are correct, plumbing for drop tanks fitted at the insistence of the UK.

@willfromhythe

Жыл бұрын

Terra flow, the first P51Bs weren't operational in England until December 43

@terraflow__bryanburdo4547

Жыл бұрын

@@galier2 I am familiar with Greg's take and he is right.

Some of the film shows Geman Messerschmitt 109 E.That was in service in 1940.The 8th fought against 109G and FW190.When heavily armed with Cannon they were effective bomber destoyers but became vunerable to the more numerous P47 and P51.

i was born when ww2 was half a decade in memory. one president. one congressman. another war (korea). i grew up to war stories, and a nation still economically devastated. i see what we have now, and realize it's a matter of a blink of the eyes and we'll be back in it. and next time i sincerely feel we won't be as fortunate against our adversaries. i told my father on his deathbed, that we owed his generation the price of america's freedom, as the best generation america ever had, and doubted we'd ever see the like again. that was 15 years ago. i'm old, i may die soon, and hopefully before i see the end of the home of the free and the brave. god bless america

Excellent video, a story never to be forgotten.

The combat box was a good idea and if tightly held could be effective but the problem was holding the formation and then if a plane was lost the box became much less effective. Bomber doctrine at the start of the war never really took the threat that interceptors held too realistically. It was only after these raids that the need for a truly long range fighter was acknowledged. It would be nice to see a video on the missions that were flown very late in the war to drop food and other necessities to the civilians in both France, Belgium and even Germany before the war ended. Both B-17’s and B-24’s took part in the missions along with the transport aircraft.

@Athrun82

Жыл бұрын

The Germans also invented an effective method to break those Box formations: using BF-110 fighters equipped with rocket launchers. Those would dive into the formation while unleashing a torrent of rockets in the hope of either taking down as many bombers as possible or panic the pilots into evasive maneuvers. After that the single engine fighters would join to exploit the holes in those formations

By early 1944, the allies had long range P-51's escorting the bombers and a month prior to D-Day, they didn't just "protect" the bombers but went on the hunt to lure the Luftwaffe up in order to destroy them so as to have air superiority on D-Day. P-47's were not leaving the bombers unescorted in 1944. This may have happened in late 1943 or very early 44.

@recoil53

Жыл бұрын

This raid was in 1943. What happened later, when drop tanks were allowed and the Allied had more fighters available, doesn't apply.

@jeffpotipco736

Жыл бұрын

That's part of the reason they dropped the olive drab paint on the bombers.

An American perspective.From early 1942 RAF attacked at night in increasing strength and technical ability. German night fighters also took a toll and had highly sophisticated defence systems Both wore down Germany. There were thousands of 88 and 105 mm antiaircraft guns.Such guns could have been used to deadly effect on the Russian Front and probably in Italy and Normandy. This was a war of resources and numbers and engineering technology.

I really like your non-sensationalized and unbiased recollection of these bloody events Dark SKies. Always a pleasure to watch!

@radiosilence599

Жыл бұрын

The History channel could learn a lot from this guy. Like how to do a documentary.

@MOrab46019

Жыл бұрын

@@radiosilence599 They have done it. Just that they went with what they have now. It sucks. Just glad KZread carries channels like this one.

@mclarenscca

Жыл бұрын

@@radiosilence599 you are absolutely correct!

@fireballxl-5748

Жыл бұрын

I think you mean non-sensationalized.

@tommis1985

Жыл бұрын

@@fireballxl-5748 Indeed haha

Awesome thanks so much!! MORE PLEASE!!

It is truly remarkable that there were no mid-air collisions. The logistics of World War II is a study in and of itself.

@_SimpleJack_

Жыл бұрын

There were plenty of mid air collisions throughout the entirety of the war.

@huskelly2897

Жыл бұрын

There was multiple ones...

@chrstphrdickey

Жыл бұрын

Two B-24s collided right here in Tucson

@normannokes9513

Жыл бұрын

AA suddenly disabled aircraft by flak or fighter would create havoc in a tight formation..@@_SimpleJack_

Another great one…. with good footage

I've met a few B-17 crewmembers who said their craft would be covered with FLAK shrapnel, 20mm strikes and many bullet holes and STILL made it back to base! That speaks to the toughness of the crew and aircraft. Fortunately the P-51s came along. They developed external drop fuel tanks. This would enable the escorts to support the Bombers all the way to Berlin and back. 30% casualty rates were the norm for the Bombers before the long distance escorts came along.

Most wonderful coverage & explained of that successful Luftwafa operation against allies air raid bombarding..during WW2. Thanks( Dark skies) channel for sharing this informative video

fantastic style of presentation

At 4 minutes 24 seconds to 4 minutes 26 seconds you will see the pilot Robert Knight Morgan and copilot Jim Virinis. I had an opportunity to briefly talk to both of them and get their autographs. You will also see those two in a briefing room earlier in the video. Those segments come from a video made of them on their 25th mission. The last mission of the Memphis Belle bomber was May 22/23 [?] of 1943. So the raid mentioned in youtube video was in August of 1943, it did not include the Memphis Belle and its crew members. The May 1943 raid took out submarine pens in Wilhelmshaven, Germany and ball-bearing factories quite possibly in Schweinfurt, Germany. The location in the latter raid may not be correct at this time.

Damn good channel. Doesn't muck around, gets straight into it, nice fast clear narration, and always interesting. Oh, and he doesn't feel the need to show his face like some "influencer, in-it-for-the-likes, I spend too much money on beard oil" type.

@alzeNL

Жыл бұрын

lol@beard-oil :)

Can’t wait to watch the Masters of the Air on Apple TV.

P47 fighters were perfectly capable of carrying drop tanks but the 8th AF top brass refused to import them. British Mustangs were regularly used with drop tanks so the USAF brass couldn’t avoid the option. Drop tanks mysteriously appeared for Thunderbolts around the same time.

@mlynch001

Жыл бұрын

I was privileged to know a P47 Pilot who flew two tours in the ETO. We spent hours talking about flight operations. The British had the Paper Drop tanks available in 1942-43 and the P47 had hard points and connections to make use of the tanks (No thanks to the USAAC) when they arrived in theater, no conversions were necessary. The pilots begged to be allowed to use these tanks and the Brits were willing to provide the tanks. This was a simple case of narrow minded, bull headed, blinders on thinking that pervaded the US military then and still does today.

I do wish one day a film or tv series about the Bloody 100th will be made ,along similar lines to band of brothers/the Pacific etc' it would be a stunning film

Their accuracy was superb, never heard that before in relation to an allied bombing raid with or without the over rat3d norden bomb sight

1940, Battle of Britain, many of the losses of Spitfire pilots was from collisions, including between themselves. It was chaos up there, August 1940.

Sounds directly from a chapter in the book "Masters of the Air"

@martinross5521

Жыл бұрын

I’m reading it at the moment; impressive book. The Regensburg and Schweinfurt attacks fully justify this episode

it was determined in later study , daylight bombing was NEVER worth losses - - -

Interesting film of planes with invasion stripes supposedly in 1943!

@josephwolosz2522

Жыл бұрын

Good eye.👀 Invasion stripes over France was done during Operation Overlord. To distinguish Allied aircraft from Enemy planes.

Both sides put some very brave men into battle. May they rest in peace those who lost their lives. Earlier in the war, the RAF suffered such huge losses in daylight raids that only bombing at night was feasible, and even then, losses were heavy. My father, who served in the RAF as a radio mechanic in 2nd Tactical Airforce, many years after the war said to me that without the Americans, the war would have been lost, and that's a fact.

Tough day 😮

Tell me about the P-51 Mustangs that were built in Dallas, Texas during WWII.

100 men? That seems really really low. 60 bombers have 10 crew apiece

@jefffreeman8905

Жыл бұрын

Most of the crew survive.

@Hypernefelos

Жыл бұрын

Parachutes.

ay bruh im sick af, your videos are a nice medication for boredom

Schweinfurt actually did have a serious impact on ball bearing manufacturing but the Germans were able to overcome it with some difficulty.

@randomlyentertaining8287

Жыл бұрын

That difficulty being switching their sizeable stockpile of already produced bearings.

I remember in 90s playing pc-dos game "chuck yeager's air combat" which contain "schweinfurt campaign" and "head on campaign",playing as german fw 190 pilot..

I grew up studying the history of the US Eighth Air Force. My father and I loved the B-17. I was brought up thinking the Regensburg-Schweinfurt attack was a huge failure. But other information has come out that the attacks really did have a dramatic impact on the German ball-bearing supply and caused them to use up their reserves at the worst time. The Germans worked to hide this fact from the Allies. Retribution, by Prit Buttar, about the Soviet Reconquest of Central Ukraine discusses this. Very interesting.

Very cool

Some of the most successful Fighter Escorts for American Bombers flying raids on Germany during WW II were the Red Tails in P-51s. They stayed close to the Bombers and didn't chase the German Fighters.

@plantfeeder6677

Жыл бұрын

For Italian based bombers. My father's BG was escorted by red-tails a lot of times.

@benjaminrush4443

Жыл бұрын

@@plantfeeder6677 Your comment is a testimony that the Red Tails assisted Dad to provide for your eventual Reply. Thanks.

British night bombing raids were not ineffective.

@specialopsdave

Жыл бұрын

They were for quite a while. They got better, of course, but the first night raids sucked

@rg20322

Жыл бұрын

The reason the Brit's went to night is because the US would take the daytime raids. Either way if you position any country at that time for daylight raids you would suffer 2-3x the casualties.

@Snoozzzzzze

Жыл бұрын

I believe that the British switched from day raids to night bombing because the losses in daylight were considered unacceptable and unsustainable. The RAF was somewhat amazed at the US bombing in daylight but at least the pressure was kept on night and day.

@kevinohalloran7164

Жыл бұрын

@SFreud Would you please read more history about the British efforts to bomb Germany? They knew very early on that losses during daylight raids were unacceptable. They were bombing Germany at night in 1940. The Americans showed up, bombed in daylight, took heavy losses, but had the wealth and production capability to counter the problem (eventually) with truly long-range fighter escorts.

@specialopsdave

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinohalloran7164 I think you meant to respond to OP, not who you replied to. He agrees

A map of the flight plan would help show the scale and risk involced but overall your "non-sensationalized and unbiased recollection of these bloody events Dark SKies. Always a pleasure to watch" as tommis1985 said

The Texas A&M Library holds a copy of the USAAF Strategic Bombing Survey conducted after the war. As a student in the 1980s I was able to review that set of volumes in detail. My conclusion was that while the sacrifice of those brave aircrews was not entirely in vain, the vaunted strategic bombing campaign had far less impact on German war production than was thought at the time. Factories were counted as "destroyed" based on aerial photos of devastated buildings when in reality the heavy machinery inside was barely damaged and soon made operational again. Indeed, if Speer - a logistical genius - had been put in charge of war production a few years earlier, the war might have dragged on for several more years.

@benjaminbarrera214

Жыл бұрын

If the war in Europe had continued for only a few more months, Germany would have been nuked instead of Japan. And perhaps Japan would have surrendered since they knew they were next.

The raid was scheduled to simultaneously hit Schweinfurt and Regensberg, thus spreading the Luftwaffe defenses. Unfortunately, the attack on Regensberg was delayed, so both raids were able to be attacked by Luftwaffe fighters in force. Not only was it a case of lack of range of the P-47's, with or without drop tanks, but Bomber Command insisted that the escorting fighters stay with the bomber formations. Only, when the rules were changed to allow the fighters to range ahead and go after the Luftwaffe fighters in the air or on the ground, were the bombers better protected. Of course the introduction of the P-51, with its longer range, helped. In 1964, at AFROTC summer camp, the tac officer, LTC Vince Gordon showed us movies from his own gun cameras, as he (then 1LT) flew down between two rows of parked FW-190's, chopping the hell out of them with his .50's!

Actually, the "Allies" did not "discard nighttime operations" (2:30). The RAF curtailed daylight raids after 1940 due to losses and recommended that the US 8th Air Force do the same in 1942. The U.S. persisted, and it was decided at the Casablanca conference (Jan. 14-24, 1943) to carry out a "round-the-clock" bombing campaign, the 8th during the day, the RAF at night. The first 8th AF raid against Germany occurred three days later.

@normannokes9513

Жыл бұрын

Th USAF could not operate at night. Navigator received 5 months of training against 18 months for RAF.. USAF navigators required less training as follow my leader procedure operated. The group leader released bombs and following aircraft plastered the objective. RAF navigator operated as an independent unit vital for night operations.

I'm quite certain that declassified documents detail the reason behind such raids were to draw out as many fighters from the Luftwaffe and force them into attrition with a superior numerical force. This was a deliberate decision to force the Luftwaffe into engaging constant raids with as much fighter escort as logistically allowable. In short, it was intentional with the goal of sacrificing some bomber crews in order to weaken the Luftwaffe, and it largely worked.

The thumbnail and title change?

thumbnail picture is upside down, unless those bombers fly inverted.

The Bomber Mafia of the Army Air Corp was horrifically wrong and criminally slow to learn from their mistakes.

Machine tools are made from cast steel far thicker any tank armour. Only a direct hit would cause any damage. That's why the factories were back in full production in a few weeks. The Regensburg/Schweinfurt raids were a waste of lives and aircraft.

What I love about your telling of this event is how accurately true and unbiased it is. When I was in USAF BMT, one of the sections the AF loves to talk about is how it came about during the Second World War and they talk about the Schweinfurt-Regensburg raid as this grandiose achievement that helped paved the way for the USAAF to become the USAF. I always chuckled whenever I would read that portion in my BMT Textbook because I knew the true story of both raids from reading "Master's of the Air" by Donald Miller.

Typo in the title?

The loss of 100 men I would check that , does not sound right .

@Thermopylae2007

Жыл бұрын

I recall a documentary from when I was a child which said that 300 pilots were killed on this raid, which sounds more reasonable given the number of aircraft lost, and still leaves plenty of room for those that bailed out or survived crash landings.

Those Flying Fortresses going down with a wing missing, or half a fuselage, now you now, friendly fire, the bomber above dropped their load on top of them... true truth story.

@carsofsouthernmaryland4066

Жыл бұрын

You could've just made one comment. Your writing style makes your comments almost unreadable

@mayamanign

Жыл бұрын

I got a seizure from reading this.

@Mr.Thermistor7228

Жыл бұрын

@@carsofsouthernmaryland4066 how about you broaden your horizons and realize not everyone speaks English as a first language. Taking a simple observation of his name I'm going to assume that he does not speak English as a first language. So let's see you try to speak in the op's native language and watch him make fun of you for how utterly stupid you would sound. How full of yourself are you for getting all bent out of shape because someone doesn't speak your native English language while on a global website with many dozens of spoken languages. Disgrace

@carsofsouthernmaryland4066

Жыл бұрын

@Mr. Thermistor he speaks English. A simple look at his page would tell you that. I've got a long last name as well but I still speak English. There was no need to cry and write an entire paragraph. How about you broaden your horizons and stop getting offended by everything.

@carsofsouthernmaryland4066

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr.Thermistor7228 he's welsh

What if the Allies knew of that me262 factory all along? And chose to sacrifice 100 bombers than lose 100,000 troops in Dday invasion if the jets went to production?

Swine Swinefurt & Regensdurg?

By January 1945 the Germans had plenty of Me262s, but not enough fuel to fly them, and the training of pilots had also been handicapped by lack of fuel. Hitler had rescinded his order that all 262s were to be built as bombers the previous September. Because of a shortage of special alloys, the Jumo jet engines wore out very quickly.

@plantfeeder6677

Жыл бұрын

Because outfits like my father's bombed the German oil industry into oblivion. Tell me daylight strategic bombing was a bust?!?! That's another British lie to make their wholesale slaughter of civilians seem morally justified.

@bernardedwards8461

Жыл бұрын

@@plantfeeder6677 I dont know if daylight bombing was a bust, whatever that might be, but I would certainly agree that the damage done to the oil industry threw a spanner into the works of the German war machine. I cant justify the wholesale slaughter of civilians, but it is worth remembering that niight bombng also damaged several war industries and drew thousands of 88mm flak guns away from the battle front and kept many fighters and their pilots from attacking the daylight bombers. Speer said that a few more raids like the one on Hamburg in July 1943 would have knoccked Germany out of the war.

I find it interesting that a good 75% of the footage in this video was originally shot in colour. Why all B/W here?

Nighttime bombing was not ineffective. The British swapped to nighttime bombing because of the high losses which was a tough lesson the Americans learnt as they decided to ignore what the British had learnt from 3 years of war.

It's also worth mention that a German squadron made the run all the way from Berlin to attack the streams.

60 x 10 = 100?

And all these US losses could have been avoided if the fighters had used the drop tanks whose plumbing the British had insisted were fitted to fighters bought under lend lease like the thunderbolt and Mustang.

2:02, didn't they have the P38 though?

@recoil53

Жыл бұрын

The 8th Air Force did not use the P-38 because one of their higher ups did not like it. The 15th Air Force, which was based in North Africa and then Italy, bombed the oil fields in Romania. They used the P-38 and their bombers were escorted the whole way.

@joshburke4083

Жыл бұрын

@@recoil53 certainly a very interesting "what if". Would've figured the reputation it has ie "fork tail devil", it would've made a difference to the bomber lost rate.

@recoil53

Жыл бұрын

@@joshburke4083 The P-38 covered huge distances in the Pacific. It had an aerodynamic drop tank. But it wasn't as easy to learn. There was a quote from one of the pilots in the European Theater that it was too much plane for them (as rookies).

@joshburke4083

Жыл бұрын

@@recoil53 but in the right hands it's an ace maker.

@recoil53

Жыл бұрын

@@joshburke4083 Yes, the need for more training shouldn't have kept them from using their first long range fighter in Europe.

The bombing raids did very little to hurt German war production.

tell how many bombs landed on civilians there in netherlands

The entire "Bomber Mafia" should have been Court Martialed busted and fired at least. It was criminal.

@williamtell5365

Жыл бұрын

Can't really agree. If you look at what they had figured out with incendiary and so forth over Japan in 1945, you can't say it wasn't effective. Inhumane? Yes. But effective.

@gort8203

Жыл бұрын

"Criminal"? You watch too much KZread.

@normannokes9513

Жыл бұрын

USAF general Curtis le May responsible for dire bombing of Japanese cities was personally thanked by a influential Japanese that this terrible measure plus nuclear bombs prevented a vast bloodbath. Land invasion by allies wou;d have been contested inch by inch by fanatical Japanese with no regard for innocent civilians.

The P-47 reached their FUEL LMIT because of STUPID Generals refusing to let them carry Drop tanks.

@terraflow__bryanburdo4547

Жыл бұрын

Idiots for sure.

keep in mind in the beginning those in the Bomber Mafia of the American Airforce refused to make available longrange fuel tanks for the Thunderbolt . . the idea that they had to wait for the Mustang to get escorts for the bombers is arse covering on a Huge scale

It did not knock out an airforce. The 8th alone had thousands of planes. 60 bombers were lost. Granted it was a heavy cost.

Why unescorted bombers!!! Yet you say Mustangs were fighter cover! WTF bro! You are so confusing!!

The senior leaders were not really very good in the Army Air Corps. I would call them stupid. Technology was there for fighter drop tanks. We could not use drop tanks until the Mustang arrives? Give me a break. They did not value aircrew lives. This reminds me of the decision to invade at Normandy. How about the wonderful southern French coast in the Mediterranean, perfect tank country. We had North Africa, and a landing along an unfortified coastline to me makes very good sense. France would have been a much different fight. We might have saved some soldier lives. Another dumb "best" idea. Germany was not a naval power except for subs but by the time of D-Day, the subs had taken a real beating.

I hate the p51 over hype about its escort abilities. P47 could have done it the whole time. It was bomber commanders that refused the escorts. And to cover up thier blunder they created the p51 myth. That and the unity aspect of using a British engine. That's the real dark doc.

Let's be correct , it was the U.S. Army Air Force , then it was later changed!

Over 376 bombers? Soooo 377?

The b 17s could not defend themselves,if they could there would be no need for escort fighters.and nothing could defend them from the 88 mm flak guns.

There's NO SUCH THING, as a, "lack", of catastrophic incidents. (4:22). There can be an *absence*, of them. That's unless you're talking about the need for catastrophe to have been inflicted on the Luftwaffe~which you weren't

I SERIOUSLY QUESTION THE ACCURACY OF HIGH LEVEL BOMBING

@plantfeeder6677

Жыл бұрын

Okay you can seriously start now! What? Nothing other than a bloviation? Figures.

For Allied read American.

Ok another video massively over gilding the lily. The Luftwaffe as well on the back foot before the Normandy landings, fighters on the production lines were not the problem for the Germans, training pilots was. Ball bearings (as others have said) where the key product at Schweinfurt, not aircraft. They are necessary for all manner of machinery and weapons. Lastly for me though no doubt there are many more, night time bombing did not cease as being ineffective but continue ultimately resulting in the massive fire raids on German cities. Further, the actual impact of US daylight bombing wasn't much better, even with the Norden bomb site. It was a terrible loss of American life, no need to glam it up.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but geez they did some dumb sh!t in WW2

How many bombers actually made it to North Africa??

@manchild3479

Жыл бұрын

not many...

Only in Europe

@henrique2456

Жыл бұрын

Cant even take a leak in europe mann

@huwzebediahthomas9193

Жыл бұрын

Certainly - we invented wars, after all .. 😳😁👍

@huwzebediahthomas9193

Жыл бұрын

@@henrique2456 neither a merde schizzer shit

James Stewart, the actor, Captain of a Flying Fortress, he was given the highest altitude to drop bombs..

Tough situation to overcome but had I been in charge, I think I would have baited the German air force to send their fighters out rather than using brute force. Would have been interesting to see if a small force of bombers and many more fighters were sent in to to loiter and draw them out.

@cplcabs

Жыл бұрын

I see you didn't understand that the fighters did not have the range to get there so that plan would have not have been able to have been actioned whether they wanted to or not.

@MehrLovin

Жыл бұрын

@@cplcabs I wasn't suggesting loitering over Berlin, but somewhere on the fringe like Dortmund. Assuming they had range even for that.

@cplcabs

Жыл бұрын

@@MehrLovin they couldn't even reach that far, they could barely reach western borders of Germany

A Mission Worth Sacrificing an Entire US Air Force?......................................... DAMN THE USA SENT ALL THEIR PLANES ?

No notice from screw tube

Except thats not what happened, This is a historical dramatic fiction. Some parts are true but many are not or are imaginative fictions.

My heart breaks each time a B17 or other American aircraft falls from the sky....

when the B-17A Flying Fortress long range bomber formation was attacked by overwhelming number of Messerschmitt BF109s fighters the crew of the B-17A Flying Fortress long range bombers without it's fighter escorts could have just jettisoned their payload & climbed to higher altitudes to avoid the Messerschmitt BF109s as much as possible . . . lack of crucial real time intelligence is evident in WW2 strike missions both by the allies & axis powers . . . in 1941 through 1945 when conducting bombing missions over Germany, the USAF could have used the B-25F Mitchell long range medium fighter bomber instead of the bulky B-17A Flying Fortress long range strategic bomber . . . the B-25F Mitchell long range medium fighter bomber is smaller than the B-17A Flying Fortress long range strategic bomber & much more maneuverable . . . instead the USAF could have used the B-17A Flying Fortress long range strategic bomber on bombing missions at night . . . although the bomb payload capacity in the B-25F Mitchell long range medium fighter bomber is nothing compared to that of the B-17A Flying Fortress long range strategic bomber . . . carrying out the same bombing missions over Germany with the B-25F Mitchell long range medium fighter bomber might have been more promising than the B-17A Flying Fortress long range strategic bomber . . .

@wilsonwhite6387

Жыл бұрын

I don't beleved the b17a was used in ETO or MTO. For one thing they did have a tail gun.

One of the darkest chapters of WWII?!? Seriously?!? Considering how *dark* some of said chapters were, I find this... almost flippant?

This video is strangely sloppy for this channel. @2:30 the Allies did not discard night time bombing. Britain flew night bombing missions throughout the war, Only US would do daytime operations... @5:55 "B-17 defensive cannons." B-17s never carried cannons, only .50 cal machine guns... @8:15 the "Second fighter group" should be the "second bomber group"...

Err, why do you say "The Allies" when it was American decissions that led to this raid?. Also, the Me 262 was not the first jet fighter, this accolade goes to the Heinkel 280. I like your videos but facts are facts-- keep to them. Also, by the later stages of the war the RAF's night time bombers had a smaller CAP (circular area probability) than the USAAF in daylight bombing.

Info is not very accurate. "The Allies 'needed' to destroy the factory if D-Day was to have a chance of success.''?? Actully... ... LoL! I think this was rushed , hince the 'mistakes.. Or, the subject wasn't studied very much.... Perhaps both. Either way ''A.I.'' is getting out of ha...

It’s important to note that the Mustang only came good after the British installed the Rolls Royce Merlin engine.

@plantfeeder6677

Жыл бұрын

As a high-altitude fighter. It was a great FB with the Allison. And that advantage was only because of the two-stage supercharger of the Merlin, where the Allison was a single-stage sc.

Does the name of that German town translate to "Pork Sausage". My German is not great but could have sworn he said swinewurst

You need to be from Europe, or have grand parents from that era to be able to understand that whole scheme. But it still feels real, despite the number of bombers downed. Ultimately, we prevailed. And by "we" I meant the European Nations. With the mechanical assistance of the Us. The Red Tails were very famous in Europe meanwhile NATO forces were just expecting plain losses. I'm just grateful that those men and women were able to assist us in our attempt to gain freedom and regain "some" independence. Dark times... But times to be learned from...

@kevinohalloran7164

Жыл бұрын

Mechanical assistance?! Count the white crosses, and Stars of David, in the American cemeteries above Omaha and Utah Beaches. 29,000 in the battle of Normandy alone. Lest you forget.

@recoil53

Жыл бұрын

D-Day - US 73K soldiers. UK - 61K soldiers. About 23k of non-European Commonwealth soldiers. European nations? The Swedes were selling iron to both sides. The French Resistance was infiltrated. Norway was considered a vacation posting by German soldiers. A lot of those central European countries provided a lot of soldiers - to the Nazis. Yes, the mechanics of destroying enemy factories, fortifications, and killing of the enemy soldiers.

everytime you kill another man you wonder for years if his son or daughter was the one that would have cured cancer or been the next enemy.

Just because you call the B17 a Flying Fortress doesn't mean it is one in practice.

@plantfeeder6677

Жыл бұрын

Says the coach potato that never had to go and try to shoot one down.

Roflmfao, almost the same picture from months ago! So many decades and american airforce still DaF and running into each other. 🤣🤣🤣

Let's talk about the darkest chapters of WW2. The bomber losses on this single mission aren't even a blip on the radar. Shall we consider the Holocaust, firebombings of Tokyo and other Japanese cities, nuking of H. and N., firebombing of Dresden, and Japanese atrocities in China. the list goes on. As a side note, including the dresden raid, US and British bombing missions destroyed about 60 German cities, killing some 500,000 Germans civilians - at a cost of some 80,000 airmen (wow). Atrocities were committed by all sides. Apparently two wrongs don't make a right - except in war.

@plantfeeder6677

Жыл бұрын

Big difference in America and all the rest in Europe. Our bombing campaign didn't target civilians like British night bombing did.

@rorynesta7766

Жыл бұрын

and the millions of bengalis that died by plans of Winston Churchill, to shift resources away from the poorest Indians in order to provision British and American troops and support war-related activities.