BRING BACK THE BLOCKS

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Preach!

@someguy1ification

5 ай бұрын

eh, block structure created real problems for limited. the first set in a block got 3 packs drafted for 3 months, then two packs drafted for 3 months, then one pack drafted for 3 months. while the last set in a block barely got drafted at all, just one pack per draft for the last 3 months. Players barely saw it. and a lot of mechanics really don't lend themselves well to the block design of "set 1: introduce general mechanic, set 2: make a small twist, set 3: make a big twist". wizards is still able to do related sets when they work together (see: midnight hunt / crimson vow). and they can still have a running theme for the year (like modal double faced cards in Zendikar Rising / Kaldheim / Strixhaven). But a lot of great sets wouldn't have been feasible with the block structure.

@Machiroable

5 ай бұрын

​@@someguy1ification Sounds more like a problem with the WoTC front loading a block with the first set, instead of developing its mechanics through out the entire block, the Tarkir block being the biggest of example of that.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@someguy1ificationI'm not sure I'd totally agree with MID and VOW being a good example. Famously Double Feature was awful to draft, and the vampires in those sets didn't play well together at all. As to your first point about the draft environment, I'd tend to agree but that somewhat falls back into my comments in the video about how WotC seem unable to design sets properly, and blaming it on the 3 set structure. I saw @Machiroable mentioned Tarkir, and I'd have to agree. And for that block they actually put more thought into how the sets would be drafted and play together. WotC can do it when they want to put the effort in. The fact they don't just shows they don't want to in my opinion

@someguy1ification

5 ай бұрын

​​@@Machiroable... the only ways the first set is "frontloaded" is that it was larger (because it had to be in order to function when drafted on its own for the first three months) and that more packs of it were drafted (because it was drafted alone for the first set release and then stayed in the rotation). mechanically, the first set was the introduction to a mechanic and the implelentation was usually quite basic and bland. Design space wasn't frontloaded... some mechanics just aren't really that deep. these two things combined (the first set gets drafted the most, and tends to be the least mechanically interesting because they're introducing a mechanic while saving the twists for a later set) means you spend all your time with a boring set you're already sick of, while you barely get to touch the third set... which tends to be the most mechanically diverse and interesting.

Maybe a failure like this wouldn't have happened if we... you know... had a multi-set block that showed the impact of the Phyrexian invasion across the multiverse instead of "ooh, look, it's Elesh Norn! Oh, and she's gone, onto the next set!" I would have even been fine with All Will Be One leading into March leading into some 'downfall of the Phyrexians' set, but instead we got Aftermath...

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, sorry. We can't have that (for some reason). And it's not as good as you remember anyway apparently...

In aftermath's "story", I hated the bit when they just "retconned via magic" phyrexianised ajani. It looks like they're doing the same for Vraska too. All we need now is for Lukka to get unmelded from a literal monster for me to finally assume there will literally never be any lasting consequences in this game's story

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Nissa can grow plants from nothing. Maybe she can do the same with her hair? And Nahiri's arms...

That quote about Dragon's Maze is insane lol

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

God, tell me about it. It boils my blood. And they just laughed about it

@simplegarak

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames - I'd have to see the source but I could understand a kind of "laugh because otherwise we'd cry" kind of context.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@simplegarakkzread.info/dash/bejne/fpiF2M-xlsnQiJc.htmlfeature=shared&t=2483 ugh

@simplegarak

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames (hm? did previous reply get stuck in spam?) Also I will point out the middle guy in that clip seems to turn beet red. That's partially why I lean towards a nervous laughter of shame.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@simplegarakYeah, potentially. They're game devs afterall. I always appriciate that they get wheeled out to actually talk to us, but it's not their job and they must be nervous

Man that whole criticism of 3-set structure ruffled my jammies. As you say it's design incompetence if 2nd and 3rd sets are lacklustre. I don't want a return to 3-set blocks but I think that period of 2-set blocks (BFZ to Ixalan) was the perfect compromise in terms of storytelling and new mechanics. Imagine for example how more satisfying Capenna would've been with two sets: one to introduce the world and families, and then the second focusing on Ob Nixilis's return and Elspeth on the run. Could've explored mechanics more, done more worldbuilding, hit more of those roaring 20s tropes... But we are where we are I suppose 🤷‍♂️

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yeah. Even Thunder Junction was supposed to have Epilogue Boosters, so they do acknowledge that a single set block doesn't work. I wish they'd do better

@christopherb501

5 ай бұрын

​@@RedBobcatGamesThe obligatory Commander tie-ins REALLY should be able to present more of the ancillary details and Side Story moments.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@christopherb501 To be honest I wish commander tie-ins were entierly themed around the set they came out with. It's weird to me that Warhammer and Doctor Who get 100% new cards or reprints with flavourful art, but you buy a commander pre-con for Dominaria, Strixhaven or Eldraine or whatever and it's 90% reprints of cards not from that plane. Very strange

@nashwinston1395

4 ай бұрын

New Capenna got me back into magic cause I love the art deco dieselpunk setting. I just wish we got to know it better. I fell off as quickly as I got back on it feels like.

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

And that's the downside to not having a 3 block structure. They say they don't want it if the set is bad. What if the set is good?

8:10 So instead of catering to small subsets of fans in turn, they decided to cater to no fans at all. Perfect.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, they're assuming the small subset of players are happy with what they're getting with only 1 set

I'd argue that it failed at being a small set too. Sure there's 50 card designs but with all the variants and treatments it's a 230 card set.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Oh god damn, you have a very good point!

I kinda miss the three lots of sets we used to get. It made me feel like I had planewalked there and was part of the events. Now it seems a little bit more like ‘get excited for next product!’

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Pretty much. The idea now seems to be about the gimmick. "It's a murder mystery, oh look! Cowboys!" etc

@isambo400

5 ай бұрын

All magic players used to get new cards from the same source. Everybody always had their eyes on the next set. Now, who even knows if any given product is legal in your format

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@isambo400That's if you can even recognise them as Magic cards. Some of those Secret Lairs look so out of place

@richardharrison4762

5 ай бұрын

@@isambo400 yeah I mean I have had an old grandma asking what I was doing and I said- I am attacking Bilbo with Megatron while I keep back My Little Pony because of that Trex from Jurassic Park

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Don't forget those Fortnite cards! And soon Tomb Raider and Assassin's Creed! Yay!

I am morbidly fascinated with The Aftermath Epilogue boosters. I'm actively collecting all 365 cards (and I'm about 15-16 cards away from doing so) so this video was of particular interest to me. I am collecting the set because no one likes it and no one else opened any. So not exactly the demo WotC was imagining. Anyway, that Epilogue on Epilogue stream they broadcast was abysmal. I am impressed you were able to pull anything cogent out of what they said. It really felt like they were trying their hardest to say as little as possible and assume as little blame for public response. I wish it could have been more honest of a conversation. You did an excellent job breaking down their points. I think if they had laid it out as you did and then addressed each point in context of the Beyond Booster, I would have more faith in that product.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Well this is all very flattering thank you. I did have to put some effort in to actually break down what they were specifically saying. As I imagine you saw from the steam, it was really just a big stream of consciousness from the developers. I was a bit concerned that by attempting to interpret their intentions I would miss understand. But honestly, part of me feels like it's on them if I did. They weren't very clear. Thank you for the comment

I just realized nissa & chandra ending exactly matched Korra's.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Oh snap, you're right. I wonder if that was intentional

@simplegarak

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames Was there a new rule we missed? Lesbians have to hold hands and run off into portals at the end now? (because we don't want them here? wtf?) 😅

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@simplegarak I couldn't tell you. I don't get invited to the lesbian meetings anymore. But to be fair, if we have to replace walking off into the sun set. Walking through a weird portal whilst holding hands with someone you love ain't a bad choice

@simplegarak

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames Well if there's one thing my grandpappy told me: "Always check the glowing portal before you jump into it first." Though seeing the two getting to enjoy a picnic while watching a sunset could have been nice.

Aftermath was an attempt to make a 'set' to finish a major story point, but without any genuine thought on ensuring a good product is made. Just checked and only 37 cards reach over $1 and 11 cards reach over $10. I will admit that there are some good cards in the set, but it's a set that has value primarily from 'ultra rare' Halo Foils which aren't even all that interesting compared to something like Oil Slick.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Jesus. I didn't crunch those numbers but sort of wish I had now. That's depressing

I love flavor text but i only put it on certain cards they usually relate to the art moves etc

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Oh sick, you make games?

Awesome presentation. Loved it. Commenting for the algo! Keep up the good work

@richardharrison4762

5 ай бұрын

Additional content for the algorithm!

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Thank you both very much! It really helps!

@richardharrison4762

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames I am too poor to patreon right now but when I see a new video I hit like even before watching.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@richardharrison4762 Ha! That's brave, maybe you'll hate it? But thank you! And if it helps I have a free tier on my Patreon which gets you access to the blog I keep about the channel

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I think. Now that i say it that might actually be the lowest paid tier. I'm pretty bad at this side of things lol

I didn’t buy it because we couldn’t draft it. It was universally panned before it even came out. My playgroup just skipped it.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

What's your thoughts on Set Boosters?

I had no idea this set existed or that it was legal in standard

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Ha! That's tragic, but a sign of how things are now

I loved having 3 set Blocks! My personal favorite Block ever was Innistrad, followed very closely by Zendikar, which was the first Block I played in Pre-Release form. I still have my Standard Legal Red/Black/Green Undying Deck... I will never take it apart, it is one of my favorite Decks I've ever made in any format

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

I LOVE undying as a mechanic. It's so rich in flavour! And so simple. Good stuff

@nikolibarastov4487

2 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames I played in a tournament run by a buddy in I believe 2015 or 16 and one of our buddies was running the Eldrazi Bullscheisse Deck, and despite the insanity of that deck I forced the third game on him and he bitched the whole time about how broken my undying deck was

the thing im most confused about in terms of not making aftermath a set is that it ISNT on one plane. even if we accept that sticking on one plane is bad, AFTERMATH IS MULTIPLANAR. it could provide stories and mechanics from a bunch of different planes. hell it could have been an awesome time to let mechanics that dont usually interact be in a set together. cherry pick a set of mechanics from each plane that complement the rest of the set, and wow. brand new design. hell it could have been a whole exploration of the new multiverse pathways. have new capenas mob bosses and ravnica's basically mob bosses having a tense stand off.have ikoria's beasts jumping around in zendikar's sky ruins. you could even do something ne w with story spotlights and split them into branches each focused on a different narrative. so A is new capena meeting ravnica or maybe just the multiverse exploring in general, B could be old legacies, focused on the ways that the dead's causes have been passed on, and C being new beginnings, aka chandra and nissa getting there moment

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

You know what that's a good point. You're right, it never even really twigged with me that the reason they're saying it can't be a full set is the exact opposite of why we can't go back to block sturtcure

ive been dying for the 2 block era back, such a great time for the game, i absolutely adore the design choices from amonkhet, ixalan, and the like

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I think the recent return to Innistrad will have put them off though. But the issues there were the fact the story was boring and way too focused on a single event. And the mechanics didn't support each other. I think they learned that it's more effort to put work in, so don't bother from now on

WotC formally acknowledging EDH as a format has been disastrous for Magic the Gathering.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

That and the secondary market too

@christopherb501

5 ай бұрын

Imagine if they went with the original Pioneer instead.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@christopherb501 I always laugh when I think about the official landing page for Pioneer. There's a bit where they ask "What Sets Are Legal in Pioneer?" and then it's just blank beneath it, like WotC were so not interested they couldn't be bothered to write them down

So, all the good mechanics would go into the first set of a block and it would get "iffy" by the end? And moving planes somehow fixes that? How's foretell doing lately? Companion? Blood tokens? Connive? Adapt?

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

Haha, yeah exactly. I really don't get this point about how moving to a new plane automatically makes the set better designed. If that's what they want, they could just, you know, design better sets. I don't see the connection between development and block structure

As ive commented on other videos about the slurry of universes beyond content we've been getting, the abandonment of the block structure shows a lack of faith in wizards that their storytelling can sell products anymore, resulting in rush jobs because thats whats working for them. I joined magic after the block system was abandoned and I can only IMAGINE how amazing it would have been to grow fond of a world like that. The closest thing I have is original Ixalan, which was 2 sets. Like lets be real, whose favourite plane is Kaldheim, Cappena or Strixhaven (no offence to those who do like those planes, at least strixhaven got a dnd boom) who dont want more expansion on the lore we already have

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

Preach!

get ready to do it all over again with assassin's creed and its modern-legal 6-card packs mini set.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

And by "Do it again" do you mean ignore the product and hope it goes away? Cos that's what I did with Aftermath haha

I feel like Dominaria and kamigawa: neon dynasty were perfect 1 set blocks but i feel like theros and especially ravnica need at least 2 sets and if your gonna end a years long story a full year should be dedicated too it

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I think you're right in a sense, but both of those were off the backs of what came before them. Perhaps if it's an old plane 1 will do, but for somewhere new we need 2 or 3?

@CarmenCards

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames i think 2 would be better I know you gave them shit for the dragons maze reasoning but, avoiding journey into nyx (no exciting mechanics)and dragons of tarkir (disappointing lore changes) would be better

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@CarmenCards Sure, but also they could just have made those 3rd sets better. That's what gets me about their excuse. It's as if a 3rd set is always going to be bad just because it's a 3rd set. These aren't Star Trek movies, every other set isn't cursed. They could just do better

Good video, very thorough, I would love to watch another video like it, more people should see this video, in my opinion, it’s a good video I reckon

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. I hope they do too!

Want to go back to forgotten realms, so much IP to work with but so little exploured, especially after the success of BG3🎉

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, though those characters did get printed in that set tbf. I'd like to see a D&D set somewhere other than the Forgotten Realms. But that would be a totally differnet thing I suppose

Good thing they had never planned a second Aftermath style product anyways, right?

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Padmé's looking worried

Even in that one quote at 9:06, you can tell that what he naturally went to say was that specifically third sets were normally bad but then caught himself and added in "second or third" so that he wouldn't be explicitly pointing out why we changed to Two Set Blocks instead of no blocks at all. He has to add all this shit talk on the second sets or he's just arguing that we should go back to Two Set Blocks. From my memory, even if it was the second set rather than the third, the thing is that it was normally *one set out of the three* that was rough and Two Set Blocks were alot more consistent. But that hurts their argument for getting rid of them so of course you see them not be honest. And as many have pointed out, if two of the three sets of a block are bad, I don't think that's indicative of the block system being bad; just cause y'all badly designed a block doesn't mean blocks inherently don't work. If they didn't, Magic wouldn't have gotten far enough to change them in the first place.

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

Exactly. We lasted for a long time on block structure, and if it's not broken don't fix it

The whole "set without commons" explanation is arbitrary nonsense, given that there are only three rarities in the aftermath boosters they may as well have named the rarities C, U & R or Mythic, Mega-mythic and Ultra-mythic, it's all just a way of fluffing it up with minimal effort.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Oh yeah, 100%. That's what concerns me about Play Boosters too. They've said they've had to adjust how they make cards because packs now have multiple rares, without explaining exactly what they mean by that. I have to assume they mean making weaker rares to commidate less commons.

@xaropevic7918

5 ай бұрын

It just doesn't make sense to me either, play boosters have no downsides for non draft players, and removing commons ditch not only those but also pauper players

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@xaropevic7918 Yup, I didn't even think about pauper to be honest. To me it just feels like an excuse to take a card out of Draft Packs, but charge as much as Set Boosters

Magic's story has been so handicapped ever sicne they decided every set needed to be it's own thing. The phyrexian invasion of the multiverse is the culmination of 30 years od storytelling, and it got wrapped up and concluded within the span of like 4 months. That story should have been the entire year! But no, we got to release a new booster product every week. Gotta get that Dr Who and Lord of the Rings cards on shelves. What if instead of three set blocks we had two? So that way we can have a beginning and an ending, set up a story and then wrap it up. Build up some mechanics and stories and then pay it off. And then you have room for one-time worlds.

@mountainghoti1671

5 ай бұрын

Even when the books were bad, I'd read them. When they stopped printing them, I stopped reading. And then standard lost my interest. I know the stories are online, but it doesn't work for me anymore. I still play, but I buy singles, and an occasional pack for fun.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I'm pretty much the same as you guys. Though, to be honest I'm not sure I even trust WotC with a 2 set block any more. Midnight Hunt and Crimson Vow were so dull and disjointed. A real shame

Good video

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Thank you

I think with beyond boosters the other brands should be much more worried about partnering with the controversial company WotC 😂

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I dunno man. Ubisoft can give anyone a run for their money...

@MASHINEM

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames okay yeah thats true. Well a lot of big corpos have done bad stuff tbh

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

Preach

I definitely agree with the larger point that aftermath was a failure. That said, I think your third ambition is a misinterpretation of Wizards' goal. You used the amount of Innistrad cards as a barometer for how well they stretched out the story, but that wasn't the story they were trying to expand, it was MOM's. I don't think they did a particularly excellent job of that, either. We got to see a handful of concrete outcomes, and a bunch of desparked Walkers that we don't know exactly how they got desparked. I think the main failure here was so few webfiction chapters. I think there should have been a chapter dedicated to the larger pruning event. How did a bunch of walkers, who we didn't see in the actual MOM story, lose their sparks? Why did they lose their sparks? I'd love to know.

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

You know what, you might very well just be right. But that's such a weird stance to make then, because it's off the back of talking about how people are fans of certain planes. But no, I think they probably are talking about people being a fan of March of the Machine as a whole. But then, yeah it still fails because even if you look at all of the cards, so few of them have flavour text it still doesn't work. Good comment!

Hi red guy

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Hi!

Epic Failure! 😕 Thank you for making it clearer!

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

No worries

it's funny they cite Dragon's Maze as the reason why 3 set blocks aren't a thing anymore because the 2nd or 3rd set in a block are "less good" when IMO RTR-GTC-DRM was some of the most fun i've had in a block, granted, that was specifically for drafting, maybe RTR-GTC-DRM were way less interesting to constructed players. Maybe it's just me loving Ravnica and feeling like the newer Ravnica sets don't do it for me the way RTR/GTC/DRM did

@RedBobcatGames

Ай бұрын

See, this is how I am with (most) Innistrad sets

@RedBobcatGames

Ай бұрын

No, that's not fair. That's me being salty. I actually really enjoyed both MID and VOW prerelease and draft. I even bought a box of Double Feature to draft at some point

I can't wait to return to Theros in 5 years to finally get closure on what happened as a result of the Phyrexian invasion. Well, I can't wait to learn what even happened on the plane since I have no idea how many of the Gods are still alive. MOM was such a fumbled set. It would have been the perfect time for a block, but I guess they were too scared about the players getting bored. The anticlimax of the story made me take a break from magic. We could have had a cycle of compleated Gods...

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

See now that would have been sick. I actually thought with Theros they had some interesting ideas. Can't compleat the gods themselves, so compleat their followers. There's a lot of potential for story that was wasted there. Such a shame

I always preferred April of the Machines

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

The weather's nicer

Agreed.

@RedBobcatGames

2 ай бұрын

Yup

I'm by no means defending Aftermath (hell no) but I want to address your second point, the one about the set not providing a satisfying ending. An epilogue is not the same as an ending, it's what happens after the ending (which, I think, is why we don't get that many of them). With that in mind I think that especially the cards you illustrated your point with do exactly what an epilogue is supposed to be doing so it feels like the argument that this set doesn't work as an epilogue doesn't hold water very well.

@opinionofmine3238

5 ай бұрын

He was taking what the guy said on the interview, hence going after the "ending" interpretation. That being said, it doesn't matter either way. Whether ending or post-ending, the aftermath cards were supposed to be story focused, yet were lacking in art and flavor text cues alike.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, in essence that was only my interpretation of the reaons they gave as to why they made the epilogue boosters. I admit, I may have misunderstood but it sounded like they were saying they wanted to make them to finish off the stories, even though that's not what an epilogue is. And on that front, I think they failed

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

ALTHOUGH, upon reflection I guess I can see where you're coming from. I did just rewatch and you're right, they do say they want it to be an Epilogue, not an ending. But to that point, I'd still fail them. The cards lack flavour text, and we're left to guess as what's going on. An epilogue needs to be more than just a montage of contextless images in my opinion. But I'm also will to admit that not everyone may agree with me

@Dimitar_Tsanev

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, to me it's a matter of how much this particular aspect of the whole thing bothers each of us personally and I guess everyone has different levels of tolerance. However, I think all of us here, watching this video agree with your overall assessment of the concept of 'epilogue sets'. I also think that in the particular discussion you quote they show a pretty shallow and intentionally dismissive attitude towards the 3 set block idea. Almost as if they were told it's not conducive to the perpetual hype cycle that they're trying to sustain at all times these days so they need to convince players that it was not good back when we could actually explore and enjoy a plane or a story beat for a sufficiently long period of time to actually make sense of it.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@Dimitar_TsanevOh yeah, 100%. I didn't put the quote in, but during that part they said something about how people that want 3 set blocks back are just misremembering and looking at the past through rose coloured glasses. Very annoying to be spoken down to like that

I have no strong feelings one way or the other

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Fair enough

Though I do prefer blocks, I really would hate three sets of Kaldheim, Strixhaven, or Capenna, but again that's their fault for making crappy planes and stories

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Nail on the head. Imagine if we got those planes, but they made them really interesting for a change. Told a full story. It's why planes like Theros and Tahkir are so beloved

Aftermath boosters feel like yugioh master bosters. The issue is yugioh master bosters have good cards in every 5 card pack.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I've never played Yugioh, were they master boosters priced fairly at least?

@rosecooldude1024

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames i opened a few good cards.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@rosecooldude1024 That's all you can ask for really I guess

See, ‘Deification’ doesn’t give context at all. Is Elpseth a god now? Is she still a walker? There were two stories that’s it. Two set blocks are better y’all.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yup, 100%

The issues with the block structure described in the video are real. It is much harder than you think to make three sets worth of evocative, flavorful, fun and balanced game pieces all in a row, year after year. Switching planes constantly opens up varied design space. The same is true about blocks being boring and cutting out sections of the player base. If I don't like the plane we're stuck on for a year and I'm a standard or draft player - what am I supposed to do? Quit for a year? Nowadays if I don't like a given plane I can stop playing limited and mostly ignore the current set while remaining engaged with standard or my format of choice and there will be something fresh next quarter. I don't agree with many things wizards is doing - pinkertons, price gouging, glut of product, etc. The shift away from the block model is the best decision wotc has made in years. It keeps players engaged with the game and recognises that the lore is mostly just set dressing and always has been.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I would disagree with the lore only being dressing. But my question for you would be, why would you not like a plane? Especially if you don't really care about the lore? The point I was trying to make was, if a plane is bad it's got nothing to do with whether it came in 1 set or 3. It's because they designed a bad set. Players are only cut out when they make a bad product. As has happened with Aftermath, and now Karlov Manor. These are failures people aren't playing and it has nothing to do with block structure. If, as you say, the lore doesn't really matter. Then whether a story is told over 1 set or 3 will really make no difference on how well the mechanics of the sets play. And in that instance, why not go back to 3 set structure for the vast number of players that care about the lore?

@clairbeeguitar

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames Aesthetic or Mechanical reasons. I took a break during Ahmonkhet because I didn't like the way the cards looked and the bolas tinted ancient egypt theme didn't excite me. Or mechanically, I could have seen myself taking a break during Theros or if orginal Eldraine had been spead out over a block. I like the theming well enough but being pushed towards mono color in limited is not for me. I think you are overestimating the amount of players who care about magic's lore. I believe and I have a feeling that Wotc knows that that majority of players apprciate the set dressing as aesthetic flair and the actual lore is secondary at best for the subsect of players that do care. Granted my selection size is small but is is of among the most enfranchised players. Whenever a new set drops at a local modern or legacy weekly, many players will ask the one person who actually reads the webfiction about what happens, lament about how that is stupid or how they thought it was different looking at the cards. And then everyone goes back to playing the game for the next three months, potentially complaining about how they have to play a silly looking card to remain competitive. The person who buys ten booster packs a year (the actual average player) doesnt care. The person who grinds RCQ's doesn't care. I would venture to guess the average commander player doesnt care apart from when there is lore specific to their favorite commander.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@clairbeeguitar Right, I agree. I don't think you realise that you keep hitting upon the point I'm making. You skip sets because they're bad sets. Either the world or mechanics aren't good. It's got nothing to do with block structure, it's because the sets they design are bad. If the sets were better, whether 1 set or 3, it sounds like you would be more interested. Also, as you say, the reason people aren't into the lore is because currently it's bad. If it were better and sounded awesome when you heard about it, I suspect people would be more interested in reading it themselves. No? I maintain a part of the reason the lore is silly at the moment is because we don't have a 3 set block sturcture, which means we can't tell a proper story. If we did, the lore could have a beginning, middle and end, and that's always going to be more interesting than a 1 and done narrative. You're right, most people don't care about the lore. But whether intentional or not, that's through WotC's design. I think a return to block structure would fix this

@clairbeeguitar

5 ай бұрын

@@RedBobcatGames I think you aren't understanding my point. People really like ahmonket, theros, eldraine, or any other plane. But too much time spent in any one place creates fatigue. Let's take NEO, a recent beloved set. It takes some positive inspiration from Kamigawa block but is mostly its own thing. If we spent a year there the gimmick would wear thin. But we didn't and apart from a certain fable, people generally like and remember it fondly. If NEO 2 was announced for 2026, I bet most players would be excited. Where NEO 2 coming right after NEO may have been met with a resounding "meh" regardless if the cards or story are good. Magic's strength is the game. And the game is better when a variety of machanical space is able to be explored rather than pidgeonholed because of the yearly setting the game is trapped on.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

@@clairbeeguitar I understand your point, I just disagree. I don't think it's the case that people will get bored just because they're exposed to the same thing for a long time. Long running TV shows like soaps, crime shows, medical dramas disprove this. Even Doctor Who. People seem hyped for Deadpool, and Marvel have been non-stop for a decade. People still go to Harry Potter world, read Lord of the Rings, play a yearly Call of Duty or Fifa. Halo has a TV series, Game of Thrones has at least one spin off. Yeah, sometimes people dislike an aspect of an ongoing IP, but it's never because they're tired of it. Simply that the most recent product in the line was bad. You don't stop listening to an album because of one bad song. You will if every song is bad though. And that's what's happened with Magic. The lore has been bad for a long time. So long in fact, now a lot of people (seemingly you included) believe that's all it is or has ever been. I get what you're saying. People don't like it. I accept that. I think a return to 3 block sturcture would help solve this.

Didn't see the referenced video, nor I plan to do so. Nonetheless, it makes me think about that other video they made when Bank of America lowered MtG's stock rating. Of course, they went on and on explaining why BoA was wrong etc. Next quarter they had to lower their income expectation, BoA lowered their rating again and, by the end of the year they famously fired 1000 employees to contain losses. I mean, this kind of corporate stuff is laughable and sad at the same time.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, that's the thing. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic

While I don't agree on a return to blocks. What id prefer is a turn to "take as long as needed". Some sets want a single block to tell a story. Some need two. Some might even be four. But at the end of the day, space it out. Big stories need more sets. Anywho that's all I have to say on that.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I think a new plane should have 3 to tell a new story. But if we're just popping back to Ravnica again or whatever we could probably just do 1

One of their biggest failures is having that blake-guy still talking as if he was the image of Wizards... Firing him would be a great start!! But maro is also still there, so 3 Blocks sets wouls also stink. Ever since was given the resigns in Betrayera of Kamigawa...

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

I just wished they'd fix the lore. Bring some proper dedicated writers on full time, I think I could forgive so many of the companies other mistakes if the lore tracked at least

It’s a classic case of smack the player base in the face, then when you “only” insult them later one with marginally less terrible 7 card “Beyond Boosters”, they’re less likely to fight back. It’s a war of attrition to lower our standards to increase profitability in the long run. I’m very tempted to boycott the Assassins’ Creed set for this reason. They need another set failure to throw them off this track that’ll see *all* sets be smaller packs for the same price.

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

To be honest I wasn't planning on picking any up myself. Less of a boycott, and more because I think the product looks terrible. I imagine I won't be the only one

Copying Marvel as basically an end credits scene to tease people but will probably go nowhere

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

I mean, even then though Marvel end credits scene actually say something. They tell you what's coming next. Aftermath had little flavour text so god knows what they were trying to say with it

They got some balls trying to scam people in a game only played by nerds.

@RedBobcatGames

3 ай бұрын

And yet, if it didn't work they wouldn't keep doing it

I don't like Epilogue Boosters, and I'm glad they're gone from Outlaws of Thunder Junction

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Fair

My opinion is I hate WotC

@RedBobcatGames

5 ай бұрын

Fair. Though to be honest I mostly blame Hasbro I think

The whole March of the machines story was stupid to begin with. The phyrexians “shutting off” when elesh norn was killed showed a poor understanding of phyrexian flavor. Their idea is that the oil itself is a driving force, so “the big bad” dying nullifying the whole thing is just poor writing. An epilogue of that sorry story beat is just undesired

@RedBobcatGames

4 ай бұрын

This was the worst aspect of it for me. It felt rushed, like trying to do the whole thing in such a short amount of time meant they had to wrap it up without explaining it properly