This is great - it solves some technical challenges, but I suspect its biggest selling point is that it takes a lot of worries off the table for a landlord who wants to do the right thing.

This is definitely going in the right direction! As we consider increasing the number of EVs on the road a few observations seem relevant. 1. Apartment buildings will have a large number of tenants with EVs that will need to charge (each night). 2. People will want to plug in when they get home, and not want to move their car until they need to depart (the next day). 3. Charging a large number of EVs at higher Level 2 charging rates (6.0KW and above) will potentially draw a large amount of (peak) power. 4. Today, apartment dwellers often use DC fast chargers (or superchargers) as "gas stations". and "fill up" periodically. 5. The average car in the US travels about 14,263 miles per year (39 miles per day). 6. An EV might get 3.5 miles per Kilowatt-hour (KWh). Note: The Tesla Model 3 is slightly better than 4 miles per KWh, on paper. However, this number is achieved with ideal conditions, the actual car efficiency depends on a number of factors, including weather/climate, etc.. We’ll use 3.5 mile per KWh as a more realistic value. 7. Let’s assume that a car is typically parked for 8 hours at night, each night. 8. The demand on the electric grid (and the apartment complex) is lowest at night (with no EV charging considered). From which we can make some baseline statements: a. Each car really only needs to replace the energy used each day. b. From #5 and #6, each car needs to replace 39/3.5 = 11.1 KWh each night. c. From #2 and #7, we will have 8 hours available to achieve our charging (b). d. Charging over 8 hours requiring 11.1/8 = 1.4 Kilowatts of power or 1400 Watts. e. At 240 volt, this can be achieved with 6 amps. 240V x 6A = 1440 Watts. f. This is important since (as hinted at in #3) we will want to keep the peak power demand of the apartment complex low, while charging as many vehicles as might be required. g. From #1 and #2, we will want to install a large number of (orange) outlets. h. We will want these outlets to be as inexpensive as possible since we will need many of them. i. We will want to optimize this system, but we don’t need to be perfect. If we meet 80%+ of the charging needs this way, we will definitely improve the situation in #4. These orange outlets seem like a good start. Some other aspects of such a system include the need to control/limit the power to each car to 1400 Watts (or 1440 watts). Tesla’s let you adjust the charging current from 6 Amps to 32 Amps (in one amp increments) while using the mobile connector and connect to outlets such as these. Other cars may not have this level of charging control and may simply draw 12 or 16 amps regardless. This might ultimately be problematic. There are ways around this (by switching on and off the orange boxes in a “time shared” manner), but this might wear out the relay in the orange box prematurely. It would be important to limit the total power draw from the apartment complex to ALL the orange outlets installed. This needs to be done so that the maximum power available to the apartment complex is not exceeded. If the apartment complex needs more power to run (for example) a heating system, then power sent to the “parking lot EV charging orange boxes” may need to be reduced to stay below the maximum power limits of the complex. This will require monitoring the total complex power requirements and may result in turning off (and on) the orange boxes several times throughout the night as needed. How to determine which orange boxes to turn off will need to be determined (maybe randomly?) There is really no reason to limit charging to the 8 hours at night. If cars are parked longer or over the weekend, then charge them as long as you can. However, if electricity rates vary as per the time of day, then it would be appropriate to work this into your “orange box” control system. This problem is not so simple and there are other aspects I’ve not gone into. But these orange boxes seem like the right approach. Just need to put together a smart control system around it!

@michaelholliday100

5 ай бұрын

Most EV Charger will talk with each other. You can plug every can into a charger and they will each draw a reduced amount to prevent overloading the circuit.

Thanks. I see a lot of questions on the EV forums about charging at apartments. I can point them to your video.

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I appreciate the exposure.

Thanks for this video. As a house renter and owner/driver of short range 1st generation EV (Mitsubishi i-MiEV) for the past 7 years, I currently find myself providing public input to the City of Tucson, regarding EV readiness standards for new construction of multi-family rental properties. The developers/realtors are resisting the idea of installing simple outlets that they can't meter, but aren't wanting the expense and bother of formal J1772 hardware. The Orange Outlet was brought to my attention by fellow EV-driving friends and appears to be the perfect problem-solving product at exactly the right time.

@michaelholliday100

5 ай бұрын

You are a brave individual for driving that vehicle...

@benjaminnead8557

5 ай бұрын

@@michaelholliday100 Actually, it's pretty safe (4 star NHTSA crash rating.) It sits up very high for a subcompact and at least it's visible to the typical pickup or SUV driver, who are hopefully paying attention to the traffic around them. Conversely, the windshield is massive and I know what pedestrians and cyclists are doing. Great acceleration from 0-to-30 (far more responsive than the typical subcompact gas car,) where most real world city driving is done. I can get out of the way of trouble quite effectively. I've been driving for 50 years now and even spent a few years way back when as a cab driver.

Great idea. Thanks for sharing!

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Pat!

We own an older condo with unassigned parking and no outlets in the parking area. There are hundreds of buildings like ours within a few miles. This is the sole reason we can’t switch to a BEV even though we need to replace our car. Solutions like this our absolutely critical as long as the rates aren’t usurious.

@user-tb7rn1il3q

8 ай бұрын

I solved my problems with not being able to have a BEV and solar by buying a SFH.

@eatruneat

8 ай бұрын

@@user-tb7rn1il3q SFH?

Having wired both 6-20 and 14-50 outlets, I can assure you that it is much easier to wire a 20 amp outlet than a 50 amp one. The question still remains of how many additional 20 amp circuits a building can add without looking at the wiring to the nearest transformer.

@mattbuie5878

Жыл бұрын

orange is networked already. so they can come up with software to only allow for a certain amperage pull from all the units in a specific building or on a specific breaker panel. and perhaps allow for delayed charging (at a slightly cheaper rate) for those that plug in, but delay charging. shared total power consumption is a must for these units. that is 1 way this both wins and fails. It does not allow for granularly control down to the exact amp each ev gets. it would just allow for on / off of evs. but that is a good step foward. This is a short term solution. the long term solution will be EVSE's that are networked and share power to the amp. these will be cheaper in a couple of years and a company like this will likely drop off unless they make their units for like 50 bucks or something.. where an EVSE would never be that cheap because of the amount of copper required for the cable.

@michaelholliday100

5 ай бұрын

Most Chargers are smart chargers which talk with each other. You can plug all on the EVs into a particular circuit and they will proportion out the amperage to each charger to prevent overloading the circuit.

As the electrician: is there a system in place for load management? Adding EV is added at 100% for the overall load calculation of the building. Are there any products you would recommend for this if the building is close to full capacity for it’s overall usage. Thanks

Many EV's, especially the smaller EV's are easily charged by 6-20 outlets. For a Tesla Model 3 or Y, a 6-20 outlet provides 14-16 miles of range per hour, which will probably handle the needs of most people. I mean, 8 hours at 14 miles per hour is 112 miles of range with an 8 hour charge. Few people drive more than 100 miles a day. And if you can get 12 hours per day to charge, that's 168 miles of range per day.

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Even my Bolt, which I drive 150 miles to work has sufficient time to recover overnight at 16A, 240V.

If you're living in an apartment, perhaps it's not the best financial decision to be purchasing an EV Keep in mind, these 240v NEMA 6 receptacles are not designed to output 20 amps for 8-10 hours straight. It is intended for large window and in-wall air conditioners. NEC has the minimum romex gauge for a 6-20R receptacle to be 12/2 but if you're going to run 20a through it for hours and hours things might get a bit warm. Whatever you do, don't skimp on receptacle quality. Use a commercial (Fed-Spec) outlet at the minimum, though i'd recommend a more robust "heavy duty/industrial" version. The difference in price between a residential grade outlet and a heavy duty/industrial is about $15 and in the grand scheme of things, how dumb will you feel if you burn the garage down over the cost of a value meal. Lots of people have caused fires buying cheap 14-50 receptacles. The ones that cost $10-$20 are garbage. Just like the 6-20 outlets that cost under $10 are garbage.

To me it seems there are at least three pluses to Orange: 1: cost to install and convenience for the user, 2: cost to use is significantly lower than commercial charging stations (it is still a lot cheaper than gasoline!), 3: the property owner is compensated for related power expense.

Could this be used in a single family home and what would be the advantages over having an electrician set up a separate panel and 240v that’s costly?

There was no mention of how the MDU owner is compensated for electricity used. I assume money debited from user’s credit card goes to Orange. Then, Orange probably takes a commission (how much?) and sends a check monthly to MDU owner for compensation. MDU owner probably sets a price per kWh for electricity so they fund electricity and cost for Orange outlet install. The big winner here is Orange as they make $$ on outlet and commission on electricity sold.

Sweet device! Tech should be applied to the charger itself as well to prevent theft and anyone else from using the stolen charger later.

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

This is something I've thought about. The plug can lock to most cars, which at least prevents theft, but can't prevent someone from unplugging you.

Nice. I add a 6-20 to charge my car. 👍

Alright, so here in Europe this setup is somewhat common because we run on 220-240V 16A. The biggest issue is 3.8kW really isn't all that much, and having to take the cable with you all the time is quite inconvenient. Common long-range vehicles range from 60-110kWh battery packs, which means at 3.8kW you're looking at over 24h 10-90% worst case scenario. It's certainly better than nothing, but not a perfect solution.

@johnpoldo8817

5 ай бұрын

The strategy of this using this product is to always plug in your EV when not driving. The only time your EV is not plugged in is when away from home. This way you achieve the number of hours needed to charge. The average daily drive is about 40 miles so you should be able to replenish that range easily. Greater range replenishment is also possible.

I like this for workplace charging too. It looks like a way for employers to offer charging without eating the cost of electricity. How does it work on the property owner side? Is there a monthly cost to the property owner or does Orange just take a percentage cut of the revenue? If it’s just a reasonable percentage or none at all, I could see this scaling big all over the place.

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

From the podcast I know they are looking at workplace as a potential market too. That became less of a focus during Covid. Orange takes a cut of $0.05/kWh, so they absorb some of the risk for landlords. It’s not a terrible fee, so I think it scales well.

@bsaelectronicsgmail

Жыл бұрын

@@chargeeverywhere Cool idea but 5 cents/kWh! Ouch, our standard rate here in Nevada is 12.5 cents/kWh! I'm on TOU rate so I only pay 6 cents/kWh. I could see a flat monthly rate but if the outlets are underused/unused I see how a landlord would be unhappy paying a monthly fee. I could see a landlord want to recoup some investment/$$ for on going maintenance and end up adding his own 5, 10 or 20 cents/kWh to the base electric rate (national average is approx 12 cents/kWh) plus the Orange fee so the end user may pay 22-37 cents/kWh

@AnonymousFreakYT

Жыл бұрын

@@bsaelectronicsgmail Yeah, our overnight TOU rate here is $0.04, so Orange taking $0.05 means their fee is more than the actual cost of electricity. Ouch.

@Nagleess

Жыл бұрын

@@bsaelectronicsgmail Its actually 5% of the rate, not 5 cents

@rokguitarstar

Жыл бұрын

@@bsaelectronicsgmail That's part of the cost of owning an EV

This is perfect for airport parking garages. They can install many of these fairly cheaply and monetize the power.

Why not just install normal Nema outlet and ask for premium for the parking?

Interesting, brings up a few questions. Electricians are going to be harder to find. What’s the projected cost of wiring a 200 unit garage? I guesstimate $100,000? Who will support “my car is not charging?”, the apartment (no), the car maker?, orange?, a electrician? ( @ $200 hr)

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

Yes, maintenance is a big concern for EV charging equipment. I do think something like this is substantially better than a hardwired EVSE. The equipment is much simpler and is very similar to a standard outlet (from the electrician's standpoint). If I had to guess, maintenance will likely be on the landlord, just like for any other outlet on their property.

@Nagleess

Жыл бұрын

@@chargeeverywhere This is correct and is why it was designed with simplicity in mind. Not only did we remove the charging cable to reduce maintenance costs but we also made something that's relatively easy to install.

@mahindersingh-wb3ik

4 ай бұрын

I don't get it. What is the value proposition? I can install a normal 240 outlet and ask the EV owners to pay premium for those spots. Why we are bringing extra payment and accounts etc? Also, if one apartment owns the charger and in other one I have to carry my charger all the time, I will chose the first option. Outlets will be needed in all parking spaces in future anyway so why shouldn't one get the outlet for $40 dollar and install the charger for $500(tesla charger level 2)? I really tried hard to understand but don't get the value prop. Founder, can you please explain?

So what EVSE Units use a Commercial Grade Side Wired 2-Pole 20A plug? And what about the security of the EVSE? I get the plug idea and cost and Orange looks like a good idea. But as an EV owner in an apartment (not me, I own my own home) I can see the problem of EVSE theft is a big problem.

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

The Tesla Mobile Connector has a NEMA 6-20 option, and I've purchased a 6-20 to 14-50 adapter, but this requires an EVSE with the ability to reduce the charge current. I agree with the theft point. Something that helps is that most cars allow the plug to lock to the vehicle.

@GreggHavens

Жыл бұрын

@@chargeeverywhere I'm in touch with my state senator that is on the energy committee and have a meeting with him in early October. I'm discussing EV implementation in Mississippi. I'm trying to convince him that we need to think beyond the next election cycle for solutions. Right now Mississippi is among the last in EV infrastructure. The report that was due to the federal agency on 1 Aug has been submitted but they, unlike Louisiana and Alabama, will not allow the public to see it yet. Apartment and rental charging for the coming, I hope, lower-cost EVs will be important. Changing Electrical building codes to require x% Level 2 charging plugs even at 16 or 32 Amp should also be part of future buildings or current upgrades to existing buildings. The other need is to have a requirement to increase that % in line with the sale of EVs every few years.

@chidorirasenganz

Жыл бұрын

I’m not sure about CSS but the Tesla connector can only be unlocked by someone who has control of the vehicle. They could take the short cable that plugs into the EVSE but not the EVSE itself

nice, i hope someone copies that for the european market

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

Europe stands to benefit even more with your 3-phase standard - although your Type 2 sockets (sans cord) are somewhat similar to this.

@bingobongo9340

Жыл бұрын

@@chargeeverywhere I figure I'll be ruled out because it's not accurate enough. 1 phase is what most are capable off and quit often sufficient

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

​@@bingobongo9340 I should have said that differently. Just because Type 2 supports 3-phase does not mean most will use that. My mistake.

Dont use the wagos!!! You need as much of the copper from the splices TOUCHING eachother as possible!!! Esp. In this application! WAGO's only contact about 10% of the diameter of each wire in a splice.☆☆☆

@johnpoldo8817

5 ай бұрын

Yes, twist copper wires together and use a wire nut.

I see directly one issue with the installation. A lot of equipment rated for 20A is not rated for that continuously but for a certain time. So a 20A outlet might be good for 10 minutes, but would start to melt after 1 hour. Same with the heat dissipation from the wires - never underestimate that. Heat dissipation is not only a fire hazard but it also hurts your wallet unnecessarily. Where I live I can get 230/400V 3-phase power residential and that means that with 16A I can get 11kW charging. I wouldn't be surprised if US households will end up going there eventually.

@miles9922

Жыл бұрын

NEC accounts for that. 20A breaker, 12 gauge wire on a NEMA 20A rated receptacle is allowed 16A of current draw on anything running for 3 or more hours. EV chargers from REPUTABLE companies (I'm looking at you, Lectron) must account for this and limit chargers to 12A on 15A receptacles, 16A on 20A receptacles, and so on.

One problem I can see is another ev owner unplugging the evse either from car or orange outlet and "stealing" a charge A simple solution to this would be to sense if current higher than say 200w stops then disable the power output

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

That’s actually a good issue you’ve raised. The problem with sensing a drop in power is if your vehicle is using scheduled charging. Mine will immediately charge to 40% and then I typically schedule it to start back up in the middle of the night so that it finishes right before I’m ready to leave in the morning. I’m not sure exactly what the best approach here is. If the Orange was an EVSE it could tell when the car was actually unplugged.

@xhacks519

Жыл бұрын

@@chargeeverywhere that is a good point on scheduled charging. That would be a difficult thing to work out how to solve reliably. But an idea would to have scheduled charging in the orange app. The biggest issue is that it is not an EVSE and cant tell when a vehicle is disconnected. If the auto manufacture of the vehicle being charged has an api to tell if the car is charging, plugged in, or other info then that api could be used to tell the orange app.

@ewicky

Жыл бұрын

Or just put a sensor on the Orange

@Nagleess

Жыл бұрын

@@chargeeverywhere This actually can't happen for a few reasons. First once the unit senses that its been unplugged it will send a message via the app to the vehicle owner that the charge session has stopped. Second someone else won't be able to just plug in as they will need to scan the QR code and iniate a new session which would charge them and not the person who was just unplugged.

Does this really only work well if the renter has a dedicated parking space?

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

If the landlord installs enough of these it doesn't matter as any driver can use any plug and will be billed accordingly. That's the beauty of the installation cost being lower, many more can be installed for the same cost.

@geirgaseidnes7809

Жыл бұрын

@@chargeeverywhere I see - the QR code isn't tied to the car, it's tied to the charging session.

@rupe53

Жыл бұрын

@@geirgaseidnes7809 ... the charging session will be tied to whoever activated the outlet with their cell phone app.

What a shame about the shape. Doesn't look like it's possible to put them outside with a weather cover that's required by code. Also the software needs to be able to have the money from a particular outlet go to a specific bank account. Maybe just have to set up a bunch of orange accounts. Otherwise very cool.

@rupe53

Жыл бұрын

how do we know the company doesn't offer a fully weatherproof unit? The examples in the video were both inside.

@LarsDennert

Жыл бұрын

@@rupe53 ya looking closer it appears the outer trim ring is separate and the rest can be placed in a standard exterior box..

@Nagleess

Жыл бұрын

Its UL certified and its perfectly capable of being placed outdoors :)

Just wondering why exactly would somebody pay to charge 120 volt outlet? Their apartment has several of them that they could use for free. Does this unit come in 240 V? It’s worth installing a 240 V outlet it’s part of the cost of doing business

@Magicinstalls

Жыл бұрын

Never mind I just went to their website and answered my own question. 120 V only totally useless! Let me know when they come out with a 240 V Nema 1450

@colinpovey2904

Жыл бұрын

A 120 volt 20 amp circuit provides a Tesla Model 3 about 4 miles of range per hour of driving. A 240 volt 20 amp circuit provides a Tesla Model 3 about 15 miles of range per hour of driving. At first glance, this makes no sense. You have doubled the power, yet the range nearly quadruples!? The difference is that it is MUCH more efficient to convert 2-phase power to DC than to convert single phase power.

@colinpovey2904

Жыл бұрын

@@Magicinstalls The unit they shower is a 6-20 outlet, which is pretty efficient. It provides a MY about 14 miles of range per hour of charge.

@Magicinstalls

Жыл бұрын

@@colinpovey2904 I just don't understand why the don't have a 14-50 metered outlet. level one charging is pretty dismal even @ 14MPH. We own apartments and are looking for a solution. Look like we will be installing L2 chargers. It's a shame because most EVs come with a L2 cable ready to plug in...

@colinpovey2904

Жыл бұрын

@@Magicinstalls First, anything above 120 volts, 20 amps is a level 2 charger. So, a 6-20 and a 14-50 are both level 2 chargers. What you seem to be overlooking is the cost of wiring a 50 amp breaker for every charger you want to install. The cost of the installing a 50 amp circuit is many times that of installing a 6-20 outlet. A 6-20 only requires 12 gauge wire, though some may prefer the next larger size for safety. And for a 6-20 outlet, you only need 3 wires. For a 14-50 outlet, you need 6 gauge wire, and 4 wires per outlet. The wires are not only much thicker, they are much harder to work with. If you are going just a few feet, not a big deal. But if you have to go any real distance, this difference will be huge.Per Home Depot in my area, 100 feet of 12/2 Romex is $110. 100 feet of 6/3 Romex will be $529. Add in the cost of outlets (good 14-50 outlets are $70, as opposed to good 6-20 outlets at about $20). And the breakers are also very different in price. Add in more labor for the harder to work with 6/3 cable, and the price will be distinctly higher. So, let's price a 25 foot installation in 6-20 and 14-50. 6-20 Wire $28 Outlet $20 Cover plate: $8 Box: $8 (conduit and breakers are very similar in price, so I will leave them out of the formula) Total for 6-20: $64 14-50 Wire: $133 Outlet $70 Cover plate $12 Box: $12 Total: $227 (3.5 TIMES expensive as a 6-20 circuit) For most people, a 6-20 outlet will be sufficient. It will supply (to a Model Y) 14 miles of range per hour of charging. The much more expensive 14-50 will only supply 29 miles per hour of charging. See here for info: shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters

You cannot blatantly state 6 AWG, if someone uses Aluminum Wire you will need a heavier gauge. 6 AWG Romex normally only can carry 55 Amps, but only 44 Amps for an EV or other Continuous Load. You can use 6 AWG THHN in a separate conduit as it is normally rated at 75 Amps, or 60 Amps with the required derating for Continuous Loads. I can see this as being useful, if there is absolutely no way to pull new conductors. If new conductors can be run, Tesla (with 6 or more Gen3 Wall Connectors) and other companies allow for billing with their Wall Connectors. Remember the Chargers are built into the cars, all you all doing is feeding the On-Board Charger.

@Magicinstalls

Жыл бұрын

Nobody uses aluminum wiring! Your reply is nonsense…

@michaelholliday100

Жыл бұрын

@@Magicinstalls Yes, believe it or not many contractors use Aluminum Wire on 240 volt applications in homes and commercial applications... You just must be extra careful to tork the connections and it will require a larger size conductor. Aluminum wire only presents an issue if it is not used properly... Most Power Companies use Aluminum wire in the main feed to your home.

@Magicinstalls

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelholliday100 Any reputable contractor would use the proper size wire regardless of whether it’s aluminum or copper

@michaelholliday100

Жыл бұрын

@@Magicinstalls Believe it or not I have seen EV installing done by major contractor that have used the wrong size wire primarily due to the fact that they were unaware of the Continuous Load issue or another issue.

@johnpoldo8817

5 ай бұрын

If your charger is only 32 A, you could use AWG 8 copper for short runs from breaker box.

Nice 10min ad

@chargeeverywhere

Жыл бұрын

Not sponsored. I do believe in what Orange is trying to do though.

Yet another reminder that EV vehicles are a failed concept outside of niche circles, and will stay that way.. and I own an electric vehicle. The infrastructure flat out cannot handle any real number of electric vehicles charging nightly.. and with these low charge speeds, it will indeed be a nightly affair. You'll realistically get 3-4 miles per hour charging at 110v 18amp, which means a whopping 25 miles for an overnight charge.

@colinpovey2904

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the infrastructure CAN handle large numbers of cars charging nightly. I just looked up the data. In the Mid-Atlantic area, power peaks during the day around 125 million kWh, but at night, it drops to roughly 85 million kWh. That means roughly 40 million kWh are available for EV charging nightly. And besides, as the number of EV's grows, the power companies will be able to build or enhance existing power plants. Remember, this is not going to be an overnight change. Gas cars will continue to be driven long into the future, and some specialized units may remain fuel for a very long time, like fire trucks. BTW, the officers of the NYPD mostly LOVE their Ford Fusion Hybrids. As police cars are never turned off except at meal time, a hybrid is great for cops, as they can keep the car at the right temperature and still use 1/2-1/3 the gas of a conventional car.

@chidorirasenganz

Жыл бұрын

The grid can easily handle 100% EVs also when I used 120v 12a, I got 50 miles over 10 hours. Usually I am able to charge for at least 12 (60mi). Now I use 120v 16a and get 75mi after 10hrs

@J_Madison

Жыл бұрын

@@chidorirasenganz Where do you guys come up with this stuff? The grid can't even handle people running their AC in the summer at this point and multiple states have had massive failures in the last few years. Less than 3% of cars are EV right now and we are already running into issues where people cannot charge their cars on certain days. Tesla just raised their rates at superchargers to almost 65-70 cents a kwh, depending on location. At that cost, I can fill up a gasoline car for about the same price. Europe is about to freeze to death and electricity now costs more than gasoline in most Euro nations.. Absolutely no way you're getting the numbers you're saying either unless you are in the most "fuel" efficient EV invented, which a vast majority of people are not. 1400w would give me about 2.5 miles per hour charged and I an above average vehicle (87 MPGe). The most efficient is a Tesla model 3 at about 140 MPGe on paper. We can calculate out how long a Tesla Model 3 will take to charge at 120v @ 12a quite easily. Their own website says you would expect 2.5-3 miles per hour charge out of their 120v charger. A Tesla Model 3 is also over 60K right now as you cannot order a non performance package equipped car at the moment. As we move more of the grid over to renewables, we lose the ability to charge electric vehicles. The irony is amazing, I know. We didn't have power generation issues like this when we used nuclear and coal.

@chidorirasenganz

Жыл бұрын

@@J_Madison The only state having issues with peak AC usage (which is the most power intensive most folks have) that I’m aware of is California. Global warming isn’t helping but the concern of EVs and power usage ignores the massive amount of electricity used in refining and pumping gas which is far more energy intensive. And that’s without considering how ICE cars waste 70%+ of the energy in gas. Currently EVs make up 5% of vehicles in the US and 15% in California. People can charge their EV everyday but some days its encouraged to be done off peak hours. Which is encouraged anyways since most power providers offer cheaper rates since that’s when there’s less demand. Electricity is still cheaper than gas everywhere so I don’t know where you’re getting that. The highest I’ve seen is ~40 cents per kwh which is only 20$ to fully charge my SR+ Model 3 but that’s rare to use a supercharger to fully charge an EV. Usually its done on a lvl 1 or lvl 2 at ~10-20 cents so 5-10 dollars at most. Most EVs in the US are Teslas as they hold 70% of the market. Teslas are the most efficient EVs (Other than Lucids). The Model 3 gets 5 miles per kwh so thats why your numbers are off. Worst case scenario its closer to 4 if you are doing a lot of sudden acceleration or speeding. Miles per hour isn’t a good representation of charge rate as it depends on the battery size and efficiency. A vehicle with a smaller battery is more efficient and thus gets a higher amount of miles with less kwh. Hence my Model 3 SR+ gets 1kwh per hour and if I charged from empty (which I would never do) would take 50 hrs as it has a 50kwh battery (not including the buffer). A Long range or performance model has a 80 kwh battery which would obviously take longer. Hence why miles per hour isn’t a good measurement. The Model 3 starts at 47k right now but was just 40k last year and likely will be next year. Tesla just introduced a 40k Model Y in Europe and has one and a Model 3 at the same price in China. So no they don’t start anywhere near 60k. Only the long range model in the US isn’t available for the rest of the year, if you haven’t ordered one already because they are still making deliveries for that model. We are still able to charge EVs as I stated before and we still use nuclear and coal. In fact 40% of the grid is Nuclear and Renewables so we are almost halfway to removing fossil fuels entirely.

@J_Madison

Жыл бұрын

@@chidorirasenganz Why you gonna waste time with a reply that is completely and utterly filled with BS? "Much of the U.S. could see power blackouts this summer, a grid assessment reveals" - NPR, May 20, 2022 "Less than 1% of the 250 million cars, SUVs and light-duty trucks on the road in the United States are electric." - Reuters, Feb 2022 According to ADFC (Alternative Fuels Data Center) ran by the Department of Energy, California has 563,070 registered EV. Do you think 570K constitutes 15% of all automobiles in a state of almost 60 million people? You've completely confused new car PURCHASES with total cars on the road. Seeing as California is forcing people to buy electric, why are you surprised new car sales are slightly trending higher for EV? You cannot buy a Model 3 for $47K right now as they are only shipping with the Performance package. i JUST went through this buying an EV. The Model 3 with performance STARTS at $60K before any other options. You seem to know absolutely nothing about this subject. Furthermore, you're arguing against Teslas own posted numbers of expected charge rate at 110v. Go take it up with their engineers since you seem to think you've somehow beaten the system. The entire industry standard is 2-3 miles per 1 hour charge over any 120v, 15A outlet. It's great that you confusingly think your situation is special, but I'm going on to base my knowledge on industry standards and not some guy on the internet who got quite literally every single statistic wrong.