The biggest problem with getting a 5 extruder machine, is you start thinking, and then you suddenly need a 6th extruder xD

@Basement_CNC

7 ай бұрын

why not use white petg and black tpu or the other way round , so you can see the "buttons"

@robh9442

7 ай бұрын

...and then a 7th

@ericlotze7724

7 ай бұрын

@MihaiDesigns has some ideas along these lines… (Work in progress, and i am unsure if it will be Open Source (at least on-launch, may be Open Source after Initial Profit?)

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

This guy gets it!

@ken830

7 ай бұрын

@@robh9442 Each extruder needs to also have a multi-material unit behind it (like an Bambu AMS). So, you could load different color of the same material type behind each extruder.

I just binged watched Robert's entire channel :D Fun fact: I'm the proud new owner of Robert's old Prusa MK3s 3D printer. Robert is such a cool and knowledgeable guy. He even gave me a small tour of his shop and shared some beginner tips with me. Thanks again Robert, and best of luck with your new XL, she's a beauty!

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Hey! Best of luck with the 3d printing journey!

This is by far the best multi extruder application I have ever seen in all my years of 3d printing Just subscribed, thank you! Would love to see more on this, I wonder if led lights would give the membrane buttons some cool visibility

Robert, it's kinda scary for us mere mortals when you and James discuss ideas. You guys are both so practical and creative. The only problem I ever have with your channel is I end up feeling so stupid when I finish the episode 🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣 Well...... that and being hugely inspired!!!!! I can't Thank You enough for sharinging these ideas.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Aww, thanks. None of this is anything ground-breaking, we're just tinkering!

After watching your first 2 head video I subscribed. I've said it before and I'll say it again that it's nice to see someone who is actually working thru the issues rather than just trying to get views. Subscribed.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Thanks, tell all your friends. I've been around longer than all the 'big' 3d printer channels. But this isn't my full time job, I'm just doing it for fun.

Glad to see the concept in the wild! Great video!

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Hey, thanks! Was this originally your idea? FYI, I'm going to make a video (and give you FULL credit) on using the fiber laser for lettering. That looked fantastic. Keep up the great work on your channel.

@christopherhelmke

7 ай бұрын

No worries!! I'm happy to see people doing useful things with this. (I think the original approach was by me but you & James have really taken it to the next level! )

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@christopherhelmkeI have even more ideas I'm going to test out, so stay tuned. I'll make sure to give you credit in my next video!

Oh man, I bet you could even add a print in place TPU gasket around the perimeter too on the inward facing face. That would really keep dust out if you could increase the rigidity of the face plate itself.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

You stole my idea! I have an upcoming project where I'm using TPU to add a gasket to a faceplate, just like you said!

This is a brilliant application! With a third extruder, white filament you could be embeded for labelling as well.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Correct!

@Melw44

7 ай бұрын

Or use the same semi translucent filament and backlight it.

@BeefIngot

7 ай бұрын

Oh dude, the ideas I've had when I was day dreaming about if I would buy one of these things. The amount of parts you could make that you couldn't even build otherwise. I really imagine how freaking awesome getting a nice logo, with lighting for shock absorbing cases for things would be(especially with the textured satin bed (low key one of prusas biggest strengths)). You could make something custom for whatever your project is, that somehow just looks a step up. Like this thing would make mean shock absorbant batter boxes, or flexures with longer flex life, or print in place tank tracks with decent grousers and fixed spacing or.... Seriously, the list is endless. Its more like 3.1d printing, like the USB spec (in that its still 3, but like you can't wait for what's around the corner, not in that the naming is completely confusing and what in the hell was the USB consortium thinking)

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@BeefIngotRight?! I'm sure I will make something pretty cool one of these days, I just need to figure out what it is! I really wish I had just gone all in for 5 extruders...

Those two materials are blended together seamlessly! You have now got my mind thinking about some ideas, so I blame you for any additional filaments I end up buying once I get my XL 5 head.

@RobertCowanDIY

6 ай бұрын

HA! Yeah, there are some good applications for sure, I just don't know what they are just yet.

Great idea. Thank you for sharing. SW makes it super easy to assign colors to each body. That would make the cross-sections more vibrant.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Ha, very true. I did that in my last video. I should remember that for the future ;-)

One thing to keep in mind, is unless you changed your settings in Prusa Slicer, your first layer is actually going to be .2mm and not .25mm.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Very true.

@BeefIngot

7 ай бұрын

While I think you're right, I'd imagine that because of how the stair stepping/averaging works, as it will consistently go up by .25 after, and 20 is more than 12.5, itll practically get him the same result. The only problem of elephants foot I imagine also wouldnt happen because the slicer would be telling it to extrude at 0.2 anyways. That being said I do suppose it would help get closer to that final z height resolution.

Such a cool idea. A suggestion to explore is hidden slots for led lights with a material that can diffuse the light. I would also love to see attempts at adding labels to the front. You mentioned fiber laser, but one alternative could be to write it with a small-ish nozzle and use multiple color filament on the same first layer.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, I know Clough42 is looking into light pipes. I don't have a specific need for it just yet, so I haven't played with it yet.

Love it, great little demo

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Glad you liked it!

I have had so many ideas for TPU+PETG. I Was a little disappointed when I found out Bambu X1C AMS didn't handle TPU. Integrating flexible hinges, TPU gaskets printed onto the part that needs them so they don't get misaligned or bunched/folded if they're thin, print in place solid hinges with TPU sleeve for toys (so you don't see the hinge on the elbow)... sooo many options!

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

YES! I am going to try the gasket thing, I have an application for that.

@TMS5100

7 ай бұрын

It handles 74D TPU and OBC ... both are options.

Really cool finish with the textured build plate.

@RobertCowanDIY

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, it works well for this!

Thanks for the video. Some idiot used this technique on our fire alarm control panel instead of using ordinary buttons. This broke over time as it was regularly tested. Now I know what materials were used. There is a saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it

@RobertCowanDIY

5 ай бұрын

Ha. Yeah, I was more demonstrating the technique, but it absolutely has its application. Membrane switches are decent, but not always the best for high-use environments.

This is so awesome. I'm just imagining using a filament with just enough conductivity to literally print 3d print to PCB membrane switches, ala crappy keyboards (like the one I type this out on). You could have a completely clean product face as it could just be a part of the top, not even just the cutout. Actually sod that, imagine a product face that looks completely blank until it's on, and then the lights only show through certain regions divided internally. You could go even further. Imagine a product face that went right against membrane pads like the membrane keyboard idea I started with, but then has cutouts in the PCB for lighting, so the lights for the buttons and the labels could be in the same place on the same PCB, for a true one PCB solution. You could even do some funky stuff to press buttons on 2 different pcbs with the extensions built in for no fiddly assembly with risers etc. The possibilities are truly endless. Like I said in some other comment here, it sure has some kinks, but this is like 3.1D printing, heck, with all the ideas I think of as I type this comment, I'm going to be like the USB Implementers Forum and upgrade that to 3.5D printing. Just all the things you can print in one print with something like this. Like I totally still think speed is legitimately super important for prototyping, but in many cases, this just strips like 10 assembly steps, and that's really awesome. You could probably make a little plinker toy blaster or water gun on this thing in a single print with no supports to break off. I mean, its just that flexible + hard + color + dissolvable supports + color 2 (semi hard). It's such a powerful combo that honestly, I feel like 5 might be a pretty Ideal amount to always have just about all the normal materials you could want to print with hot and ready for any print. If this thing was enclosed or had a decently enclosed/auto drying dry box, that would be next level. Literally never worrying about filament condition, having at least 2 colors on tap for customization with regular filaments (maybe one of them is carbon reinforced), the TPU for the flexy stuff, maybe even TPE because screw it, it can do it, and what a way to _flex_ its abilities (pun absolutely intended). My comment was done at this point, but I just had yet another brilliant idea. Standoffs?? Screw in holes?? Sod that! Add some little soft nubs like Noctua fans mount for faster servicing, or leave pockets of TPU/TPE in the corners to hold the edges of PCBs so you cut the screw count for changing the internals of any given thing in half, without anything rattling around. See, this is the type of stuff I didn't even get to the point of trying with the old manual pause and swap. This is _precisely_ the type of stuff I was waiting to see with the XL. I'm just waiting to see the crazy stuff the 5 Head people come up with.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

OH yeah, this opens p a LOT of neat possibilities.

You could print the labels with the same quasi-see-thru TPU. Then include some LED back-lighting that comes on for five seconds whenever the controller is physically moved! You could generate "the color" of the individual buttons via the chosen LED colors, which, would allow far more color choices per keypad than filament colors would allow..

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Yep! All of that is possible.

Awesome application. Looks super clean!

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Excellent! this is why the multi-material stuff is so cool. i did similar, and leveraged the multi-material to take it one step further and it's also exciting. i used clear filament to add icons on the buttons so i can illuminate them from behind (tested both petg and pla and both worked well but petg seemed to come out more clear, but it probably depends more on the brand than anything). when you print the buttons facing the print bed, the surface quality comes out so perfectly. they end up looking like they were injection molded parts and it's really exciting the cool stuff we can do with this edit: you could probably stick with PETG and just add some structural ribs on the underside to get the stiffness you need. better yet, it might be easier to just make it thicker and let infill handle that automagically, and you could turn up walls to get more rigidity from the petg around the perimeter of the buttons too. i'd be curious to see if that would have any negative impact on the flexibility of the TPU if the petg around it is more rigid

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

If this was a 'real' part, I would add ribs like you said, there are good spots for them. Or I could use ABS like some others have said.

I've started printing panels that are mostly opaque with small circles of translucent filament to provide visibility to LEDs.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Ah nice! I wish this had LEDs inside, I would have tried something like that.

An option would be to use white Petg to put rings around the buttons and a symbol next to each.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

I have another idea for that, check back in a bit...

This is such a great idea! We've used membrane assemblies in the past many times. This would be even cooler if you also printed integrated lightpipes and labelling 😬

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

I don't have a need for light pipes, but I'm going to try something different for the labeling.

@emberprototypes

7 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY 👍 I'm going to pocket this away into my brain for future prototyping. I guess there's no real benefit to printing light pipes vs just buying them and pressing in though if a prototype or product needed them.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@emberprototypes You totally could! Do another layer with white or transparent filament, or a ring around the outside of transparent filament and have a ring that would glow? There are many options here.

@emberprototypes

7 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY yes 100%! Lots of ways to skin that proverbial cat 😺

Well... this is what happens when great minds join forces, you get all kind of new ideas ;-) Instead of using PETG you could use ABS. Not as much flex as PETG and bonds well to TPU.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Ah yes. I need to get more ABS. I've admittedly not really used it that much.

super cool! thanks for doing petg/tpu combo! I'm calibrating my 5 head today O.O

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Nice! Good luck.

This is a very cool thing with multi materials.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

I think we're just scratching the surface!

Lettering test I made a little while ago: printables 601204. Printing this in the same layer would be also cool, since it will have the same texture. For me, the printing of the text came out really nice on my mk4. Very usable. But I printed them on a seperate layer. Curious how text prints when on the same layer with just an other color. What will the smallest font size be that has acceptable quality? In my test, with a 0.25mm nozzle, text with 2mm font hight still had perfect readability! For me that was: 🤯! See that printables page for a photo of it. By the way super cool stuff you're doing!

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Nice! I've done lettering before, but I think I have another idea for this. Stay tuned.

I use a lot of carbon PLA, it has by far the nicest matt and even finish of all PLA I ever seen. Also its stiffer than general PLA, ultra light and seems to have higher breaking point. Face plates in carbon PLA look gorgeous on their own.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, I use quite a bit of it too, it's a nice material!

@Brian-S

7 ай бұрын

Carbon additive filaments are actually weaker than filaments without carbon in them surprisingly

@SarahKchannel

7 ай бұрын

@@Brian-S Wild, I never measure it, but I print nearly daily functional parts with it where regular PLA bends, creeps and sags over time much more than carbon(nated) PLA does. I tend to print carbon parts much thinner than I would print PLA and I never had parts break as with pure PLA.

@Festivejelly

7 ай бұрын

on my e3d tool changer I print carbon pla outer wall but everything inside is PLA+ Carbon PLA has worse strength properties in normal PLA, so having the bulk of the item PLA actually makes it stronger for me.

@SarahKchannel

7 ай бұрын

@@Festivejelly That is a cool idea, why not make PETG ? You are the second that says their Carbon is weaker. I use run of the mill Creality Carbon PLA and have really only good things to say.

I like to make PLA stuff with printed threading for easier assembly but I found that unscrewing and screwing them multiple times can wear pla down. I started using TPU for the exterior and making it just a little bit too big. The PLA "bolt" part will squish into the TPU "nut" part and you get a pretty tight seal that doesn't just break down. Also good for any sort of friction facing surfaces to prevent wear, can use TPU as a hinge or an impact interface, good for the outside of ball joints just like the threads.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Huh, interesting!

With an extra extruder one could add colored text into it as well

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

I'm working on another option ;-) But you could absolutely do that too!

Deffo has some use cases. With enough tool heads you could embed text into the plate itself.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Correct, but I didn't do this because I want to try something else, stay tuned ;-)

I had an idea for making TPU hinges in PETG parts, and that’s part of the reason I initially pre-ordered a multi-head XL, but then I was told TPU and PETG didn’t mix well. Guess I was wrong. Maybe I’ll see if I can make something like this work with M600 filament changes. Would be a pain in the butt swapping filament twice per layer, but it might work…?

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, that might work, but swapping every layer would get really old really quick. But yeah, PETG and TPU mix REALLY well.

Can you change filament in a parked extruder to add another colour in your print this way?

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

I'm honestly not sure. I don't think there's a way to do this, but you might be able to just open it up and swap in some new filament? It might yell at you though.

But could you use a conductive filament to make connections for buttons on a PCB like a membrane keyboard

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

In theory, sure! But you'd need an air gap between them, so as long as there's enough gap and all that, it should work. I'd probably go with a thin airgap and use a very thin rigid material like PLA maybe. But with multiple extruders, this would certainly be possible.

Could you do the membrane printing technic but print the wording next to the buttons. Then backlight that working area with LEDs or with a EL panel?

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, that should be possible. If I had 3 extruders, I would certainly try that.

Can the XL support a pause and swap filaments? I would defiantly use another color filament for text and an outline for each button. I’ve done lots of multicolor prints with a single extruder, so I assume you could do likewise in leu of getting another tool head. Another nice project, should help to keep the gradue out of that box.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

MAYBE you could pause and swap? But why not just buy more extruders?! I'm sure you can add an M600 and just swap filament though. I'm going to try something different for lettering, instead of using filament, stay tuned.

@MrDksmall

7 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY You can buy another extruder (XL), I can’t (P1P). 😄. Ok I could get an AMS, maybe, eventually.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@MrDksmall Ha, fair!

@AdrianSchwartzmann

7 ай бұрын

Someone is going to figure out how to get an MMU to work with the XL and then you will have one head with 5 colors. It should make things like lettering, logos and labels easier and you will have the rest of the heads to handle different materials for the rest of the part.

@ericlotze7724

7 ай бұрын

@@AdrianSchwartzmannThis is one thing i was pondering, you could have all these toolheads: 1.) Soluble/Breakaway Support 2.) Flexible Filament 3.) Structural (CF-PC or CF-Nylon) 4.) Low Friction / Chemical Resistance (POM Filament, or other odd ones like that) *THEN* Have one “aesthetic filament” toolhead for your colored PLA etc, and have that hooked up to a MMU or ERCF etc. Also i was thinking one could maybe have a structural shell and a colored “skin” (potentially under a thin clear wear+chemical resistant layer too) You could also just have a C, M, Y, and K Toolhead, leaving a slot for structural and flexible as well! I’m rambling but short of something like @MihaiDesigns Toolchanger with a PILE of toolheads, i think some system like I described would be the dream FDM Printer!

I’m about to complete a design for a powder coating unit I’m making, I want the unit to be sealed so this would be perfect. Did Clough42 finish up using the design? I thought I remember seeing a video but can’t find it.

@RobertCowanDIY

4 ай бұрын

I'm not sure if he ever released the video, he's still messing with the process. He's getting good results, but he's integrating light pipes and such into the design.

@MrBrettStar

4 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY some of them look real good, I’m also thinking of heating the area to raising it with a screw head. To give it more of a button feel.

@RobertCowanDIY

3 ай бұрын

@@MrBrettStarThat's a pretty good idea!

How do you set the slicer to the TPU button features vs the cover?

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

I'm not sure I understand? Check my last video, I talk about the whole process with multi-extruder printing.

@garyp3351

7 ай бұрын

@RobertCowanDIY thank you for your reply! I forgot the .3mf file makes the difference. Your series is awesome! Gary

I'd be very curious what could be achieved combining TPU and Nylon/CF Nylon for combat robotics applications. I feel like you could do some very interesting insect weight chassis that way.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Yep, that's what I'm thinking. Add in some compliant bits, or have exterior TPU armor, but stiffer internal support/mounts.

@lizrrdbreath

7 ай бұрын

Please be sure to share, I love your CR content. I think theres potential for rad innovations and I'd be really curious to hear your take on what you find. @@RobertCowanDIY

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@lizrrdbreathThanks! One day I'll get back into combat robots, but it's nice to take a break from it.

@lizrrdbreath

7 ай бұрын

Well, I guess you just discovered a way to make hidden buttons.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Sure, but there are cases where you don't want an actual intrusion point for an interface. Think of microwaves and any membrane keypad.

@MatrixRay19

7 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY Oh nonono, don't get me wrong I completely understand the reasoning for the design. I was just poking a little fun because they are indeed hard to notice because of the colors and texture.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@MatrixRay19Yeah, that was absolutely the point! I mention somewhere in the video it would be cool to try different colors. I just wanted to see how well they'd blend on the first layer, to see how seamless you could get.

Could you backlight the buttons?

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Yep light shines through, so having an LED underneath would totally work.

Super cool idea. Now I'm thinking about getting an XL. I need to stop watching your videos or the wife will get upset.

@RobertCowanDIY

4 ай бұрын

Haha. I have many videos with stuff far cheaper than the XL. Keep watching videos!

@crashkg

4 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY yes, she didn’t say anything about the Noga Deburring kit. I think that was a different league than the XL. Thanks for your content it is really the best.

@RobertCowanDIY

4 ай бұрын

@@crashkg Thanks! Keep watching and tell your friends.

clough42's name is james ❤

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

Oh, I know. I think it's internet etiquette to refer to people by their channel name.

@BeefIngot

7 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY Like internet djs/artists putting their name on the track. ♬♮♩ ♪ ♫ ♯ "Jason Derulo" ♬♮♩ ♪ ♫ ♯ Gotta get that brand recognition out there. Like I say this as a joke, but I do actually think it just makes sense, although I tend to find it annoying in music, since unlike a youtube video, it is actually harmful to the final product.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@BeefIngotYep, he chose to go by Clough42, not James Clough. In much the same way I hate it when people call me 'bob'.

Cool idea but ruined by Prusa worship.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

How so? There's no worship here, just sharing my experiences.

@BeefIngot

7 ай бұрын

@@RobertCowanDIY I imagine its just the general sentiment people feel when they hang around forums too much. Like when you see someone say they don't like Bambulab printers because of the fans, its the same thing. There are a lot of fans, so people get tired of the item even if its not its fault. I doubt their comment was aimed at you as I didn't even remember the word prusa being said. I just thought of all the cool combos waiting to be made.

@RobertCowanDIY

7 ай бұрын

@@BeefIngotYeah, I really hate how there's now an 'apple vs. android' mentality in 3d printing. These are tools people, just worry about what you're gonna make with them and stop jumping on brand bandwagons. Also, I love the name and always love seeing it come up in comments ;-)