I love how at the start of every Nightmare fight, all Archviles converge on the central baron and nuke him to death in 2 seconds.

I do love how on nightmare there's always that one baron forced to do a cha cha slide and then die. Gets me every time

Great fight! Every time I tried to cause monster-infighting between a Baron and Arch-vile, the Baron would never fight back. So it's good to see an actual fight.

@Phytolizer

Жыл бұрын

Yeah monsters can't intentionally attack an archvile, it's hardcoded in the game. Makes archviles that much more deadly

@Akira625

Жыл бұрын

Monsters can only attack Archviles by accident in the game.

One hell of a battle

Evenly matched pair, wow. What surprised me that the slighest quantity change could completely throw off the balance, especially with larger numbers. Parle mentioned the factors that matter most here, but it's obvious that a preemptive advantage is key in this match.

I know the programmers didn't think of this situation, but it would have been neat to see Archviles revive demons they'd targeted and killed, this time under their control. It'd make scenarios like this one very interesting.

@Phryj

Жыл бұрын

In GZDoom, if you "summonfriend" an Archvile, it can revive dead monsters and convert them to your side.

@Markworth

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, in GZDoom, that is actually the default behavior. Just that it's not apparent because there is never a time where you have teams or player friendly NPCs in normal Doom. In the case of these monster battles, the resurrected monster would only be useful as a distraction until it got into melee range, unless you enabled same monster infighting. And that would be a bad idea because of the unintentional whiffing.

@DinnerForkTongue

Жыл бұрын

​@@Markworth Are we sure? Because the same monsters in different "factions" can hit and hurt each other with projectiles just fine in my experience.

@Markworth

Жыл бұрын

@@DinnerForkTongue Well, diddly. I tested it and at least as far as a friendly revive goes, I was able to get a friendly mancubus to kill a non-friendly one. HOWEVER, what I had probably seen happen before and misremembered because I am stupid, if a monster is immune to its own damagetype, then it cannot infight properly. Not sure what that has to do with all monster infighting, so I'll be taking my L, now. 😢

@demi-femme4821

5 ай бұрын

Enemies can't even infight Arch-Viles in base DOOM becuase of how awkward that was to deal with.

only one thing is missing: a final report with all the results.

The most interesting duel so far

The strength of the Archvile lies in speed, dodging and a high damage attack that cannot be avoided except for breaking vision or creating huge distance. A baron is comparatively easy to avoid, easy to dodge and simply a meat sponge against the player. In a straight up fight however, numbers matter, and the Baron's stats are just that much better: 1000 hp 10-80 melee damage 8-64 ranged damage With a relatively high attack speed in melee, and a decent attack speed at range. Nightmare versions gives near turret status which also makes the ranged attack both faster, and with a faster projectile. Arch viles have: 700 hp 20-90 damage (20 direct hit, 0-70 aoe) With a channeling attack of about 2 seconds. Nightmare gives higher attack speed as the needed walk vector distance is changed, but this is equal to the Baron, except there is not projectile speed buff to the arch vile as it has none. I counted an average of about 3 baron attacks per arch vile attack in nightmare mode which, if we simply average out the Baron's melee and ranged damage, amounts to 9-72 times 3, which averages out to 40,5 times 3 equalling 121,5 damage. Archvile damage remains at 55. Given these numbers, you'd assume that the Baron would simply maul the arch vile. However, AoE is a thing, range is a thing, idling is a thing, projectile speed vs instant hit is a thing and a couple of other factors. The point, however, is that the Baron is stats-wise superior, whilst the Arch Vile is vastly tactically superior. For a player, a Baron of hell is only a matter of space and ammo to be harmless. An Arch Vile, however, just needs an open area, and you most likely will get zapped.

@marcinwasko851

Жыл бұрын

Archviles are also not splash dmg resistant, iirc, which is another factor to consider tactically :-)

@alyssarichardson2544

Жыл бұрын

@@marcinwasko851 neither are Barons though, they die from like 5 rockets...

@marcinwasko851

Жыл бұрын

@@alyssarichardson2544 True. Barons don't deal splash though, so only archies will friendly fire themselves :-)

@drachefly

Жыл бұрын

Plus, archviles can aim through friendly units to hit their target; Barons cannot.

@marcinwasko851

Жыл бұрын

@@drachefly can they though? If they break the line of sight in the wrong moment, the attack is wasted. It's only sometimes beneficial.

You'll never see a Baron get utterly nuked with 10 Archvile spells in game xD

The sound of ripping flesh! Love it

This feels like the most evenly matched one yet. Considering how different 20-vs.-20 UV was vs. 15-vs.-15, wonder if this is just one where the result is going to be a coin flip most times.

Interesting matchup. Even numbers favor the Baron as the charge time for the Archvile's attack is a major issue. But change the numbers, skews things in favor of the Archvile with its low pain chance and higher outputs of damage helping out despite the charge time issue.

Archies vs Pain Elementals would be fun to see

The splash damage was the archviles' undoing in close quarter combat

If you can recolor the sprites upon resurrection, really beef up the enemy force, it'd be interesting to see how many Archviles it takes to turn the tide

I bet Romero has seen this

Muscular Pinkies vs. Bare-Naked Aliens

Quite balanced

Is there maybe a way to add health bars over the monsters with ACS? That way you can see how much health they had left.

go barons

I feel like a perfect balance could have been 7 barons vs 8 archviles. On an even amounts barons should win, but even if there is one archvile that isn't targeted it should give them a notable advantage.

super heavy demons infighting

Could you also do Macubus vs Barons?

Archviles are "the silence"

A question I'm curious of with your Retro Battles for Doom. Why is the Archvile's ability to resurrect fallen monsters disabled for fights it's involved in?

Money Guy: "OK! Everybody place your bets! Will it be the Barons of Hell? Will it be the Archviles? EVERYBODY place your bets!

Why aren't the barons flying up into the air like doomguy does?

@tacosunbirth

Жыл бұрын

Barons have an in-game mass of about 1000 iirc, so it takes a lot more force to push them back than Doomguy

@philadams9254

Жыл бұрын

@@tacosunbirth Cool!

i think the only thing that really saves the baron is their attacks speed is x2-x3 times faster than the Archviles. if they were about the same i think the Archvile would win

It doesn't help that the Barons are morons and kept getting in each other's way.

It’s annoying to see a couple of barons always trying to hit some other baron their mad at, even if their getting low on numbers. It’s like a quarterback upset, so he starts throwing passes to the other team, even if his team is losing…

@tacosunbirth

Жыл бұрын

Barons can't hit other Barons, what I assume you're talking about is when Barons bodyblock each other's projectiles by accident