An "appendix" video extending the Jennifer's Body segment (10 min) is available to patrons! www.patreon.com/posts/jennifers-body-66914075

@valantiskatsinis390

2 жыл бұрын

Finally a new video!!!! I really & truly love your videos & you VerilyBitchie!!!! I am a very very big fan of yours & other Lgbtq+ & Queer Artists & KZreadrs such as Jessie Gender of Star Trek, Abigail Beck etc. I am a white male bisexual(mostly attracted to men, massive muscular fat huge men) atheist feminist 29 years old from Greece!!!! I love good people of color & Lgbtq+ Queer & Goth/Emo People!!!! I love fantasy/horror/sci-fi nerdy & geeky stuff such as Lord of The Rings, Harry Potter, DC Universe, Marvel Universe, Pirates of the Caribbean, Star Wars, Yu-Gi-Oh, Mortal Kombat, Power Rangers, Digimon & Bloodborne!!!!

@HangryOnPaws

2 жыл бұрын

Can we all just talk about how BEAUTIFUL her hair is? I love that little streak.

@davidkay1948

Жыл бұрын

@@HangryOnPaws but how stupid she is missing context

@davidkay1948

Жыл бұрын

Wrong on Russia they are communists and hate anything rebellious ie rock metal punk emo anything like that prison

@davidkay1948

Жыл бұрын

U remember tatu the lesbian pop group they are Russian and they got banned by there own country

He is part of the Punk scene, and not Emo, but Billie Joe Armstrong of Green Day has been openly bisexual since 1995, and I think people hardly ever talk about it because he was actually serious, and not fetishizing about it.

@morwenna3018

2 жыл бұрын

Coming clean was very important to me when I realized that I'm bi, such a good song. Isn't Tré bi too?

@Hey-Its-Dingo

2 жыл бұрын

@@morwenna3018 I honestly don't know, but he does have disaster bi energy on stage. Lol And I think Mike is just the straight friend who would beat anybody up if they were being a bigot anywhere within earshot of him. (But he could also be bi, but if he is he doesn't talk about it at all)

@CrashDunning

2 жыл бұрын

@@morwenna3018 Mike is too. There's a story where he and Billie even had sex once.

@Gillpradi

2 жыл бұрын

Totally. The song in question to discuss this was Coming Clean from Dookie.

@SynthApprentice

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hey-Its-Dingo If disaster Ace energy is a thing, Mike has it. I feel like he might be sexually attracted to LSD, but I don't sense him having much interest in human mating practices.

The most validating moment for me is when I told a straight guy about my crush on another girl and he just goes « best of luck with your girl, bro, you totally have a chance » and gave me a fist bump.

@tohaovershell

2 жыл бұрын

I love this. I had a guy friend like this who recently passed away and he helped me accept myself a lot. We’d relate and vent about our struggles with girls and our shyness and I never felt like an object or a fake or performative.

@nou1186

Жыл бұрын

@@tohaovershell I’m sorry for your loss. I’m glad he helped you accept yourself

@NotDaveGahan

Жыл бұрын

We need more men like this tbh.

@Kairyuasahi

Жыл бұрын

OMG OMG I HAVE A GUY FRIEND LIKE THAT he is so accepting that I have a crush on a girl too! Btw I am a trans masc so that makes me straight but still He is so supportive dude.

@stpedro-ht9ng

Жыл бұрын

real king sh*t

As a bisexual woman, I still find it hard to come out or participate in pride event as I'm engaged to a man. Bi-erasure is still massive to me.

@uniraffesaur

9 ай бұрын

Bi-erasure is so disgusting and frustrating to me, because it comes from all angles. The straights say you’re too gay. The gays say you’re too straight. No one respects your bisexuality when you have a partner. They assume you’re greedy or a slut or more likely to cheat. People think you’re just confused or afraid to admit you’re gay. Like, fuck off. Just because YOU can’t understand finding more than one gender sexy doesn’t mean it’s not real.

@christchex9732

9 ай бұрын

Same. I don't participate in pride events because I never feel welcome and my sexuality is based on who I am in love with. I see you and support you. We in this together!

@emmameehan8740

9 ай бұрын

same.

@babydollsparkle1236

8 ай бұрын

Same here

@angelgonzalez4889

8 ай бұрын

I haven't even told my gay uncle because he calls it "false advertising" and says we should "stay at the straight bar". He was my favorite person in the whole world as a kid, but I've barely reached out since my adulthood because I can no longer relate to him. I didn't expect that kind of hate to come from him, of all people. Safe person ruined.

Gerard Way has actually consistently been an advocate for trans rights (especially during their Hesitant Alien tour). They use he/they pronouns and have spoken about their struggle with gender growing up and how they relate more to trans women than cis men. They also spoke out against the emo attacks and misogyny. Even their stage kisses with Frank were intended as an act of rebellion against the ultra-macho, homophobic culture. One of my favorite quotes by them is this, "Back then, nobody in the normal punk world was wearing black clothes, eyeliner. We'd be in a truckstop bathroom, putting make-up on. We did it because we had one mission -- to polarise, to irritate, to contaminate. It's like, Who's the toughest guy in the club? Us, because we're dressed like fucking cupcakes." Gerard also wrote things like "fairy" on his neck on several occasions as a way to reclaim words that were constantly thrown at him. A lot of their songs also have outright queer lyrics ("Burn Bright" and "You Know What They Do to Guys Like Us in Prison" are great examples) and during their recent come-back tour, Gerard consistently wore subversive costumes: a cheerleader outfit, nurses outfit, various skirts and dresses, full Joan of Arc chainmail, even full masc drag. I think a lot of people just see the very surface level face of MCR. The blood, the anger, the messiness. (Even a lot of fans are guilty of this.) But if you know anything about them, especially Gerard, you know that queerness has always been deeply intertwined with their music and image as a whole and those things I previously mentioned are actually a part of that. (Also, I think that they were coming into fame at a time when figuring yourself out wasn't nearly as easy as it is now in regards to information available and public opinion. So, they did make mistakes along the way, they were bound to.) Brendon Urie, on the other hand, can go fuck himself.

@caspeepeepoopoo

9 ай бұрын

i fucking love this comment

@herestia_photography

9 ай бұрын

I'm a fan since I was 16 (I'm 29). And I never thought about this... Now I love them more than ever. Thank you for this!! 😭❤

@juliegeorge3808

9 ай бұрын

Gerard also used to dress like a woman way back when, before the band, when he lived in NY. There was a j 14 article about it, with a picture. Not to mention the rumored relationship between him and Bert McCracken.

@foundationsofdecays

9 ай бұрын

i fuckig love gerard way

@Jesse-ri5ud

9 ай бұрын

i need to be able to give this comment more likes lol

Lady Gaga is interesting because she debuted in an era where a lot of female pop singers were identifying as bisexual for marketing purposes so the media lumped her with the other girls. They then got surprised when she continued to sing about her bisexuality years after the fad had passed. Lady Gaga is a unique case because her bisexuality gets constantly questioned and erased, even though she has a bunch of songs where she sings about women, or about men and women at the same time. Maybe it’s because her aesthetic was so wild that every kiss with a woman, every song about having sex with women and every queer moment just got dismissed as just one more of her many stunts.

@SynthApprentice

2 жыл бұрын

She kisses women, and she wears meat dresses. One of these is a bold, surreal artistic statement on social values, and one is just a genuine expression of her identity as a person. Some people aren't sure which is which.

@CharlesHatton

2 жыл бұрын

@@SynthApprentice I identify as a meat suit as well.

@ErestuPedro

2 жыл бұрын

yet her bissexuality only exists in her music.

@hugobourgon198

2 жыл бұрын

To me she was the peak of queerbaiting. Her love history is pure masculinity. She said once she was bi, but never had a girlfriend. She sang songs that seems for gays at the beginning of her career and not anymore. This was marketing, because it was fashionable at that time. I think the sole difference is that she was really supportive, unlike Katy Perry who said homophobic shits after releasing "I Kissed A Girl."

@masterpig5s

2 жыл бұрын

It is an interesting case

2000s retrospectives always have me like “how the tf were we living like this?”

@destine1547

2 жыл бұрын

@@aday4evr more than likely haha

@CygnusTheSilly

2 жыл бұрын

The 2000s had the original Halo trilogy

@wareforcoin5780

2 жыл бұрын

@@CygnusTheSilly It's true.

@patsysolatzzo2962

Жыл бұрын

The early 2000s gave us Amazing trash tv

@jennivamp5

Жыл бұрын

I know right! I can remember thinking that at the time about the 70's and 80's but thought that we'd pretty much got it figured out in the 2000's, it was a whole new millennium after all 🤦😅

So I’m a straight cis dude with long hair and a “girls”name. My parents were 70s hippies. I’ve long had an issue with the standard expectations of masculinity. The emo kids were right to wear their skinny jeans and eyeliner. It’s ok to want to be pretty. Whoever you are.

‘I kissed a girl’ was the first time I heard that was possible and I lost my shit. It’s one of the first time that the concept of lady love gave me butterflies.

@hermioneziggeraut7617

4 ай бұрын

I was an out bi woman when that came out and I remember being annoyed at the shameful fetishised cash grab that it so clearly was, but also being unable to deny that it's catchy as hell.

@nussknacker9827

3 ай бұрын

For me it was "all the things she said" From tatu . The song makes me euphoric any time I hear it I was disappointed when it turned out they weren't a lesbian couple

@AshleyJoy-nd8ui

Ай бұрын

Omg "all the things she said" is such a good song. Either way it's still SO queercoded

"Mexican emo wars" is not a combination of words I ever expected to hear 😵‍💫

@Grateful.knits99

Жыл бұрын

Can’t wait to teach it

@tbhidk

Жыл бұрын

it reminds me of the Australian emu wars

@NeroLeMorte

Жыл бұрын

South park was right all along.

@NeroLeMorte

Жыл бұрын

@@Grateful.knits99 post video essays about it.

@cassidymav

Жыл бұрын

My parents didn't let me leave my house, they were really scared I would get hurt in all that, 🙊

MEXICAN HERE , I WAS NOT EXPECTING SOME OF OUR EMO HISTORY TO BE TACKLED 11/10

@danofthehour4822

2 жыл бұрын

México siempre ha tenido la mejor subcultura darx ✊🏻

@CrowDaddy

2 жыл бұрын

@@danofthehour4822 No podemos olvidar a "Elvira" y esa icónica pelea de Emos vs. Punks Orgullo mexicano 😎✌️

@Indigo2H311

2 жыл бұрын

Bruh literally remember seeing it on telemundo and Rosa de Guadalupe

@kamilareeder1493

Жыл бұрын

I live in NYC and people don't even beleive me when I tell them Mexican culture and music has added to and shapes emo and punk culture ☝️💀. I took a whole music history class just on rock music in college and not a single word on the subject 😪😔😔🙃

@jennifervasquez

Жыл бұрын

Dude im a chicana n i grew up watching la rosa de guadalupe n they had a bunch of episodes about emo kids getting bullied n my brothers n i would remember them n laugh thinking they were silly bc none of us had any idea about what was happening to emo people in mexico like this is my first time hearing about this at all i wouldve never guessed that those episodes had actual precedence

Women being bi is either fetishized or blown off as a phase or queer baiting. Even to the rest of the LGBT community you're either one or the other, one of them or not. I still don't feel like I, or bi women in general, am/are accepted within the community or outside of it. Thank you for addressing "beta male" misogyny though. It's not just the macho men that perpetuate misogyny.

@annajung1234

Жыл бұрын

"addressing "beta male" misogyny" - As I was watching this video, I kept thinking, OMG, these emo bands were the Nice Guys before the Nice Guys were a thing XD

@mercyfulfate666

Жыл бұрын

Exacly for both of the comments. We are literally alone, we don't enter in any circle. And beta male mysoginy is horrible because it passes as 'boys will be boys', people brushes off, and internalizes.

@krisna2943

Жыл бұрын

I recommend seeking out bi creators/media to get a sense of the bi community. We exist, we have community, & it's so validating to realize that we don't have to try to "fit" into straight or gay communities. We are not part gay, part straight. We are 100% bi. So let's embrace it and find other people who understand- other bi's!

@yeai9484

9 ай бұрын

The largest portion of the lgbt community is bisexual. As a lesbian yea we can give you guys a hard time but it comes from growing up alone as the odds of having a partner before the age of 20 (atleast while I was growing up) were slim to none. And if you did get to experiment with another girl she probably broke your heart and left you for a guy. It’s a big wound that makes us cringe at the word bi. We also see that most of you can slip under the radar. I’m a masc Lesbian, I’ve been jumped a few times by strangers just for looking the way I do. So when I hear the talk of bi erasure I think “it could be worse, people could think you’re gay.” And it’s also true that many teens identify as bisexual and later “pick a side,” so many people hear bisexual and don’t believe it. I think it would be worth it to not encourage people to slap labels on themselves before they understand themselves bc it discredits everyone else.

@raff03

7 ай бұрын

as a bi guy many times I feel like other bisexuals are truly accepted/understood by other bi people only

Kurt Cobain was the ultimate precursor to emo, imo. He’s said in interviews that he feels feminine and bisexual in spirit, and has even wished he was gay, but is mostly attracted to women. Except he didn’t have an emo subculture to latch onto in the early 90s. He helped inspire that subculture instead :)

@andreas.222

Жыл бұрын

All that comes into my mind is him in that messy eyeliner haha

@yuri2604

Жыл бұрын

I know this is only a 40 minute video but the jump from the creation of punk to emo felt empty to me. I think the ultimate precursor of emo were the New Romantics, that were influenced by punk but adopted a lot of androgyny and mainstream pop. They just didn’t have this subculture to back them up. But yeah, the 90s also saw a lot of people, especially from the alternative rock/britpop scene, coming up and acting Bi chic, like Damon Albarn and the frontman of Suede. I think the evolution of bi chic between men is also funny because yeah, men needed to be tough and strong in the 80s, with the AIDS crisis, but even the biggest rockstars from that era wore a lot of makeup and over the top costumes, which propelled gay artists to reinvent androgyny in a more subtle way for the grunge/alternative rock era.

@jules8159

Жыл бұрын

@@yuri2604YEAH

@pollysshore2539

Жыл бұрын

@@yuri2604 Same but that’s because punk came about in the 1970s and it was a very large scene. You could find everything from straight edge to neo nazi but the majority did not fall in the NN category. That was a fringe. Punks of the 1970s declared punk dead in the 1980s, punks of the 80s declared it dead in the 90s. I was not a big fan of 90s punk bands (too much pop punk) but I would say the punk ethos was actually 100% dead by 2000. Also…. Punk fashion was a whole scene and the audience did often inspire bands. Yes, punk was a fairly masculine scene but there were female, lesbian/gay and BIPOC punk groups. You’d find the majority of punks fighting with right wing hate groups. New wave, dark wave, and several fantastic precursors to EMO were classified as post punk. I’m not an EMO fan. I’m pushing 50. It was a younger generation thing but everything said about EMO was said about other genres of music/subcultures. The situation in Mexico seemed very bizarre to me at the time because most punks and metal heads were vilified as Satanists, bringers of evil and moral decay in the 1970s - 90s America. My high school boyfriend was demonized as a Satanist and kicked out of high school because he listened to punk and metal during the Satanic Panic. Teens my age were being framed for “Satanic” murders that they did not commit, and were sentenced to life in prison- given the death penalty because they liked metal/punk and looked different. No self respecting fan of either genre would do the same to other people if they were actually fans and aware of the history. Metal heads are often some of the most open minded people you could ever meet. They helped open things up for the generations following them too. The fight to get out from under Christian Nationalists thumb has been brutal for many people. It takes more force at times. I’m not happy with several millennials because they revived every “radical feminist” inspired and approved policy that was supported by their legislative allies on the far right. Policies we shut down in the 1980s and 90s because they would be used to oppress, repress, erode rights and freedoms won during the sexual revolution. It’s part of the reason why we’re back to the same climate of the 1970s - 90s.

@emilyrainflower25

Жыл бұрын

The 90s were gay, just with different subcultures and well, even more homophobic. But it’s been up and down until being gay became normalized in the mid to late 2010’s. The 80’s had Bowie and blonde and new wave. After 9/11 and all the crazy cultural shifts in the early 2000’s, homophobia and misogyny came to a huge head. Maybe it was because of how fast technology was speeding up, or because of the economic crisis, but stuff back then was BAD.

calling Misha “that guy who had to come out as straight” made me laugh so much lmao

@LFC-Canada

Жыл бұрын

And calling Jensen "that guy whose face doesn't move" lol lol

@lemalaise

Жыл бұрын

Dean's face did actually move right after - the whole lip trembling and tears and everything. Devastating. So much so that the actor bought the rights to the franchise under a different name just so he could write a self insert fix-it fanfic show that is now second only to last of us on hbo now.

@revenge3265

Жыл бұрын

@@lemalaise Oh my God can you people shut up about TLOU... Just say the f slur and go already.

When I was frequenting swingers club, my bisexuality was always seen has gross or acceptable behind close doors while my wife bisexuality was focused on and fetishized. Both aspect are pretty uncomfortable.

@ariellagrants

2 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry but I'm so curious, are you a bi man married to a bi woman?

@Marenks

2 жыл бұрын

@@ariellagrants Yes I'm a bi man married to a bi woman.

@ariellagrants

2 жыл бұрын

@@Marenks omg, I love this so much. So how did you meet? And how did you know you guys tell each other you were bisexual? I'm so sorry if I'm bothering you, but it's rare to hear of bisexual couples.

@ariellagrants

2 жыл бұрын

As a young bi woman, my dream is to marry a fellow bisexual. I mean I'm okay if it doesn't go that way, but a girl could dream.

@Marenks

2 жыл бұрын

@@ariellagrants Yeah I agree with that sentiment. They are some facette of my sexuality that have been much easier to share with my wife because we are both bisexual.

I am a little mixed on how mcr was handled in this because I think it’s a bit more complicated with them. Like, Gerard Way has said more recently when asked about their sexuality that they don’t like to label it/don’t want to be put in a box with it, so there’s that. Also he uses he/they pronouns and has been open about having a more fem presentation/relating more to women. So while they definitely participated in the “stage gay” antics, I think it’s a bit more complicated with Gerard Way, like we could argue all day if he’s “actually queer” or not, but it’s none of our business and doesn’t take away from how they presented gnc both then and now. (Also the band stopped doing the stage stuff when they felt like fans were getting “too excited” about it.) Overall really thoughtful video tho, I like that you went into the sexism that was super normalized within the subculture, I’m just biased as an mcr fan lol.

@lavenderllamamusic

Жыл бұрын

not to mention, "You Know What They Do To Guys Like Us In Prison" was allegedly written about Gerard's experience making out with men. Namely, Bert McCracken of The Used. There were a lot of guys in bands making out with each other in the 2000s though

@maddieisclown

Жыл бұрын

@@lavenderllamamusic the song is actually about prison r*pe...

@TigerPrawn_

7 ай бұрын

Why would we argue if they're queer, Gerard Way sounds very queer to me.

@paolacarmichael611

6 ай бұрын

I think it's important to know if they're queer or not since it was harmful to queer kids to see their queerness exploited for attention and then shaming them for "getting too excited" and for making fanfiction about them (which every band has wether or not they've done queer things on stage, such as one direction). It's even more offensive for them to even suggest they weren't exactly cishet. For a potentially queer person to shame their own adolescent audience for engaging with something that was a queer performance takes it to an entire new level of injustice. Because then, that means they WERE doing it out of being queer and were gaslighting their audience into thinking they were making it up in their head.

@leonametalian

6 ай бұрын

right?! gerard and frank have both said that their stage-kissing and antics were to promote being open with yourself and others and to put homophobia down, not act up and queerbait.

As an openly bisexual girl in the 2010s going to a Catholic high school and openly having gf’s I had teachers telling me not to hold hands in hallways, male classmates following my gf’s and I around and asking us to kiss, and also having girls interested in me who just wanted to experiment with their sexuality. It left me feeling hollow as a teen. I’m so glad things have slowly been changing.

This is the first time that I see an english speaking youtube channel properly talk about "the mexican emo wars". I don't think many north americans & europeans know of just how serious that situation got to the point where actual human rights organizations had to get involved. And it wasn't just mexico, the issue spread to latin america as a whole. Also, really glad you mentioned the influence that 18 Visions had on the development of the emo aesthetic. Wasn't expecting that at all. It shows that you clearly did a ton of research on the history of the subculture.

@alexanderfo3886

2 жыл бұрын

You bet. I heard about Mexicans "protesting" against Emos back then, but that seemed to be quite a trivilization.

@TheKarret

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I had no idea about that at all; I'm glad to have been informed about it, even if it was like almost 20 years later. xD

@atlroxmysox98

2 жыл бұрын

I was very into the emo subculture and style and I remember my cousins in Mexico telling me to bring different clothes before coming to visit family for the holidays, so that I would blend in more. I’ve also never heard anyone outside the spanish speaking world talk about it! The podcast Radio Ambulante did a great episode on it.

@sebastianslaughter1913

2 жыл бұрын

@@atlroxmysox98 I should check out that podcast. I love learning about this stuff.

@atlroxmysox98

2 жыл бұрын

@@sebastianslaughter1913 It’s great, they have episodes from all over the spanish speaking world, with transcripts in english and spanish to follow along. They do human interest stories kind of like This American Life.

For me, all that bisexual chic-ness made it harder for me to realize I'm bi. It felt so performative and at least where I was at made people more biphobic. As much as I did identify with bisexuality, the people around me always talked about it being a "phase." Katy Perry's " I kissed a girl" pissed me off considering she did the song " ur so gay." It felt so performative to the male gaze that it made me question if my own bisexuality was performance too. It's not until I graduated high school that I came to realize I am bi and it would be another decade before I said it out loud. Another amazing video 🤩

@anitanielsen1061

2 жыл бұрын

69 Nice!

@ktbreathingin

2 жыл бұрын

This. I heard so much biphobia from queer friends, and performative bisexuality from media, that I just assumed everyone felt like I did, and so I was a 'committed queer ally' till my early 40's.

@ktbreathingin

2 жыл бұрын

But nope, I was and am bi/pan.

@nagillim7915

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think any of us have our shit worked out as teenagers, regardless of sexuality. I was quietly trying on sexualities like costumes because i couldn't work out where i fit. I knew i wasn't straight, but then i wasn't really that gay or bisexual either. It wasn't until my 20s i realised i was somewhere on the asexual spectrum (largely because before my 20s there was no asexual community to speak of because there was no internet). And, to be honest, i'm now in my 40s and still learning about myself. There's definitely a bit of gay in me (pardon the double entendre) but i've never felt the desire to act on that attraction, and yet i'm no longer content to not acknowledge it's there as i did when i was happy to just be asexual. If i've learned anything about sexuality in my 40 years, it's that labels are only ever approximations and not really something to base an identity on that will allow you to be 100% authentic as a person. And as you get older you get tired of approximating your true self for the sake of fitting in, whether that's fitting into heternormativity or fitting into other people's definitions of queerness.

@rebeccah4201

2 жыл бұрын

I remember getting biphobia and homophobia from friends and then these friends would get drunk and make out with each other. In contrast I got flack for having a girlfriend.

I’ve heard the tale so many times: a bi woman is “funny” and “sexy” and teehee exploring her sexuality( but she will totally turn again to dudes, don’t worry🙄) while a bi man is called a slur and pretending “not to be gay”. It’s heinous, tbh.

@heyfella5217

4 ай бұрын

weird and also shows the gender bias working. men are taken way too seriously, to the point where their bisexuality is seen as homosexuality; and women are taken much less seriously, to the point where their same-sex feelings are denied even when they are actively sexually engaging with women. Curious!

I'm from Mexico and, though I was still a child during the "Emo Wars", I clearly remember that my cousin and his emo friends were constantly threatened and chased off public plazas and stuff back then for "having long hair" and "looking gay". It was pretty surprising to even hear you talking about the attacks against emos at all, given that a lot of people I've told about them over here have told me they don't really remember it happening at all.

@nussknacker9827

3 ай бұрын

Does your cousin still dress emo today or some similar dark style? I'm not an emo but I think they're beautiful and there is no reason to harm them. I wish I could have been part of the emo / scene people

@toxiczombiewolf5692

3 ай бұрын

​@nussknacker9827 do it live your true alternative self ❤

The whiplash of finding “I kissed a girl” to seeing the homophobia of “Ur so Gay” by Katy Perry right after as a child. Edit: Unrelated, I didn’t realize tokio hotel was still together as a band.

@cherusiderea1330

2 жыл бұрын

They were on hiatus for quite some time and Bill had some solo projects, but yeah, they still exist.

@solarmoth4628

2 жыл бұрын

@@cherusiderea1330 I remember being enough of a fan to try to learn german because of them. I haven’t thought about them in years.

@beardpandaa

2 жыл бұрын

That was very upsetting but thankfully I didn't hear that song until recently

@MackenziiRivers

2 жыл бұрын

that messed with me a bit as a kid. i loved I kissed a girl as i didnt realise i was non cis at the time. i didnt 'get' the undertones of 'i hope my boyfriend dont mind it' but i took it as 'wait i can kiss both gorls and boys? ... huh' then ur so gay came around and it was whiplash as gay was used as an insults/in casual speak at school and by that time i knew what gay was/homophobic slurs and it hurt as i loved KP. atleast Lady gaga still had my back tho as a kid.

@esmee6308

2 жыл бұрын

@@solarmoth4628 Rammstein and Tokio Hotel are the reason I can read and understand spoken German, speaking is a bit iffy due to lack of practice. If only Mylène Farmer or Alizée coulda carried my French. :'')

ok but without the context i think the concept of gollum being homophobic while everybody else in middle earth is not even aware of the concept of homophobia, is hilarious

@vi0let831

2 жыл бұрын

Same 💀

@DoctorFalchion

Жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking. If Gollum had understood the concept, he would've called Sam every homophobic slur in the book.

I like how you touched on Urie’s girls/girls/boys- I remember thinking it sounded so much better when I heard an indie lesbian singer redo it as if it’s from the lesbian gf’s perspective. It’s only after I heard it again that I realized- oh, the narrator’s not supporting this bisexual girl. He’s another man upset because a girl won’t sleep with him.

✔️ Bi ✔️ Bowie fan ✔️ kpop fan ✔️ Former Emo Thanks for reading me so profoundly.

i would be fascinated if you did a video essay on the toxicity of bisexual tiktok. the idea of "i'm bisexual but i love women and my attraction to men is awful" is really rampant there. the self-biphobia is terrible but also really interesting.

@p0lyxena

2 жыл бұрын

i agree. tiktok is FULL of biphobic content and viewers, and i've seen so many bisexuals on it reduce their sexuality to a shameful "haha i hate my attraction to men" joke in order to be accepted, only to get ripped apart by people telling them they're disgusting and should die alone.

@cybersucia

2 жыл бұрын

YES

@ivanreeve653

2 жыл бұрын

indeed

@rowanwatts3936

2 жыл бұрын

Omg yes, the amount of internalised biphobia I've developed because of this is actually insane

@gabrielle7775

2 жыл бұрын

exactly, i just feel so ashamed abt my attraction to guys as a bi girl bc of all the bi women that are all "woman good man bad"

I think it's almost worth mentioning that Christina Aguilera actually *is* bisexual and has openly dated at least one woman during her 20+ years as a celebrity (although, of course, there is no one way to be bisexual and it doesn't actually matter whether or not she has dated women, she would still be bisexual). So cutting to Justin and missing Christina and Madonna's kiss feels extra icky to me.

@karahershey

2 жыл бұрын

Yes this is true christina aguilera is bisexual

@cherry3973

2 жыл бұрын

Also Madonna is bisexual

@maffieduran

Жыл бұрын

Haven't watched it that far, but Madonna is also indeed bi and Britney's had bi rumours for ages but it was absolutely framed as her being "depraved"

@jamangel

Жыл бұрын

Wow

@jamangel

Жыл бұрын

@@karahershey slayyyyy

I disagree a little bit with what you’ve said about MCR. They’d stated that kissing onstage and telling their female fans to spit in the face of any dude who tried to exploit them at a concert was intended to challenge the homophobia and misogyny rampant in the punk/hardcore scene at the time and while in retrospect there were better ways to do that, they never exploited it to sell records (if anything, it drove them further into being denigrated by a huge chunk of music fans at the time and led to being bottled at shows). Gerard has spoken about being GNC for years, and had dressed in drag while at college well before starting the band. More recently on Reddit they stated that their preferred pronouns have always been he/they and the way he writes about gender and queerness both in his music and his comics seems to come from a genuine place, not to mention bandmate Ray Toro recording music specifically for young trans fans who were struggling in the years after the breakup.

@deftones158

Жыл бұрын

Gerard also wore a dress a couple of days ago! They have always seemed to challenge gender and sexuality, and said that the kisses were a result of adrenaline during shows.

As a teen, I was constantly treated like my bisexuality should be used as a party trick and was accused many times of faking it because so many other people were.i was constantly being pushed to "prove it" by kissing random girls then told "see! If you were bi then you'd do it!" when I'd say no. Meanwhile I was either in a secret relationship with a girl, not into that girl, or simply don't want to be fetishized by the creep trying to push me to do something I dont want to do.

As a bi woman I will personally challenge anyone, who calls Måneskin queer bating, to a fistfight behind a Taco Bell.

@klauss.n_sf

2 жыл бұрын

As a panromantic asexual trans man I would love to join you lol

@karoliinalehtinen6701

2 жыл бұрын

@@klauss.n_sf you are extremely welcome! We could be a gang defending Måneskin's queer honor lol

@TheWriterOnFire

2 жыл бұрын

I'll gladly join!!

@Sophie_Cleverly

2 жыл бұрын

I'll back you up too!

@beth7935

2 жыл бұрын

Count me in! 💗💜💙

I always felt like out of the main trio of emo bands mcr always seemed the most genuine about how they deal with the emotion in their music and how they talk about gender and sexuality. Like Gerard even post mcr using he/they and having basically an alien fursona that was non-binary, his acceptance of gender headcannons of characters like party poison and in umbrella academy. Also thinking about how they’re considering selling mcr chest binders now? Idk it’s just interesting how they do things specifically. I also just hate what panic at the disco is now

@aaliyahstark7948

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. I think that’s why out of the main stereotyping emo groups so many of us fell into such as MCR, FOB, TOP, and PATD, MCR is the only one I’ve been able to still listen to without having a cringe fest. They were so genuine in everything they created

@lolno6465

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah i agree. I'm bi and genderqueer and even to this day i feel like mcr are very Genuine about these issues. Gerard way still using He/they pronouns is one of the coolest things and they are so Close with their queer Fans! I Just feel very different about them than about the other ones because everything Else felt very produced whereas mcr was Always somehow genuinr

@voidify3

2 жыл бұрын

Was anyone going to tell me gerard way wrote the umbrella academy comics or did I just have to find out myself in this KZread comment

@jordanjones8721

2 жыл бұрын

@@voidify3 lol Gerard is a huge comic nerd. He wrote quite a few comics like umbrella academy, the life of the fabulous killjoys and he created the character of penny parker (the Spider-Man mech girl)

@Shyringa

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I haven't truly listened to the other two bands, only MCR, but looking up some of their stuff and lyrics and what-not really seems pretty off-putting and cringy. I've always felt that MCR is really genuine and unique and Gerard Way especially. Maybe I feel that way because I'm in an intense MCR overload now when they're touring Europe lmao.

As a lesbian I feel sometimes people want to put me in a bisexual box so they can dismiss my sexuality. I used to identify as bisexual and people still get upset that I came out as a lesbian after dating men. Like bisexual is more easy for them because then they can dismiss my attraction to women. Bisexuality in women is so easily dismissed by people because our society can not understand wanting to be with a woman when you can be with a man. I do feel this narrative is present with lesbians when talking about why they wouldn't date one, they're scared a bisexual woman would choose a man over them because society sees heterosexual relationships as more legitimate and being attracted to men as stronger than being attracted to women. I wonder if I'd ever have confronted my lesbianism if I wasn't constantly being told that my love of women wasn't real and that I'd get over it, it pissed me off, especially when my lesbian friend would shut me out of conversations about being a lesbian because I'm bi and would never understand. But also if my interest in women was treated legitimately when I was identifying as bi, I may have been able to talk about how I felt about women and realise that my attraction to men wasn't there and that I was attracted to the idea of normalcy. This just turned into a rant. Tldr: society doesn't understand people being attracted to women when they could be with a man.

@adettessubs444

Жыл бұрын

But you are soo right

@HotEatTheFood

Жыл бұрын

that’s so interesting because i’ve had the complete opposite experience. coming out as bi made people want to put me in the gay or straight box. lesbians told me i was just a straight girl wanting attention and both straight men and lesbians told me i was just a closeted lesbian. the idea of liking both is less accepted than liking the same. being bisexual has made me so much more aware of the biphobia both in the lgbtq community and the straight community.

@mercyfulfate666

Жыл бұрын

@@HotEatTheFood exacly,the same happened to me. Nowadays when I see it, I INSTANTLY call the biphobia in it. There is a B in the lgBt, so we deserve respect as much as everybody else.

@yeai9484

9 ай бұрын

I’m a lesbian who’s been done dirty by so called bi women. I say so called because both of them ended up being straight. And they would complain to me about biphobia and how no one believes them, but when I was the only idiot that fell for it (twice) I was the only one who got hurt. It’s more of a trust thing. You gotta be like Alice from the l word bi for me at this point

@croquetadejamoniberico3236

8 ай бұрын

​@@HotEatTheFoodSAME, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I THINKKK

God I love that we're getting into more historical analysis of the 00's. This made me reflect on my awkward teen years in a way that feels intellectually fulfilling instead of just cringe 😂

I fucking love the academification (is this the right word?) of my youth.

@skyepollard5951

2 жыл бұрын

it's definitely weird to hear my childhood be talked about in a "historical" manner

@atlroxmysox98

2 жыл бұрын

It’s so wild to think that the things I was doing as a weird 12 year old emo bisexual are worthy of academic analysis and discussion 😭 Like, to all the pop culture scholars out there you’re very welcome for my contribution 😌💅

@asterismos5451

2 жыл бұрын

no that's a perfect word it's so delightfully ironic

@ashleymacaroni_

2 жыл бұрын

It’s really helped me process a lot of trauma I didn’t even realize I’d been carrying since I was a kid. Helped put my parents choices into perspective as well. Growing up is weird but it’s fucking interesting.

@averyhughes2478

2 жыл бұрын

Feels weird, but it’s also insanely helpful for processing this kinda stuff. This felt like a missing piece of the story of my own sexuality, especially of my initial denial, that a random youtube recommendation filled in lol

On top of emo music's misogynist themes, the female love interests in their music videos also seldom looked anything like an emo girl. The love interest was always a femme fatale, peak trad femininity, cheerleader or model type. Emo musicians felt deserving of conventionally attractive women because they were they're Not Like Other Boys, yet they seemed uninterested in women who were participating in the same subversive subculture. Frustratingly, this is pretty common in the media produced in male-dominated scenes like emo, metal, and geek culture, where outcast men want to be loved and accepted for who they are, yet only lust after women who fit societal norms. The reality doesn't always reflect the media, though, and I think most straight men in subcultures are more likely to enjoy the company of their female peers. Unfortunately, media doesn't project that message, and it can be really confusing as a female fan of a subculture.

@destined2bebossy

2 жыл бұрын

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

@maffieduran

Жыл бұрын

Was waiting for someone else to say it.

@insfieldtrip

Жыл бұрын

Very true!

@Justalildaydreamer

Жыл бұрын

The same reasoning applies for men who follow societal norms. They say they would love to have a goth or alternative girlfriend, but when another man or a non binary person is from those subcultures they are suddenly repulsed

@WildWinterberry

Жыл бұрын

Omg this explains so many of my teenage insecurities and confusion in being a female and I had no idea. Thank you for pointing this out

As a bi woman who came out this year, people ask me what I was so worried about. Thank you for reminding me what highschool was like.

I'm gonna join my fellow MCR fans in the comments to say that lumping them in with FOB and PATD--especially in terms of misogynistic lyrics--is unfair. But I did really enjoy this video, and I really appreciate the overall nuance.

@paolacarmichael611

6 ай бұрын

Im a fellow MCR fan and I'm here to say misogyny is misogyny. And they participated in it.

@scoiattolosabbioso4420

4 ай бұрын

​@@paolacarmichael611 how?

@glocrowhurst

4 ай бұрын

@@paolacarmichael611 I also want to know?? The only thing other than the "Not OK" music video that I can think of is the vague incel vibes of the song "Cubicles" off their first album, a song the band later came to despise. It's actually kind of BIZARRE how not-misogynist MCR was for the early 2000s.

@orlenisguevara4947

3 ай бұрын

​@@paolacarmichael611 Mcr? Misogyny? Where ? They neverr talked about fucking a girl or them being wh*res like fob o panic! Si i don't get your commwnt

Gender non conforming people can be straight is something that so many people don't even think about and we end up either accusing them of queerbating or invalidating their gender non conforming side ,calling it performative. Love this point. So many good things in this video. Thank you

@kodirawr

2 жыл бұрын

This ^ .. I'm gay and I have a close friend who is a str8 male and is more effeminate than me. You really can't assume someone's entire personality based on sexual orientation/gender. I've learned this over the years and it always surprises me how much we still try to put people in boxes.

@ahhh4117

2 жыл бұрын

its weird I've had friends tell me how "hard it must be" since "so many men in my generation look gay" and it's like I don't care what they're wearing, all I care about is what I'm wearing and how men look at me

@butasimpleidiotwizard

2 жыл бұрын

Tbh I think gender nonconformity should be considered a form of queerness regardless of sexuality or gender identity, my dad took so much homophobic abuse for his gender expression growing up and it had a long lasting impact on his self perception, ironically the main reason he ended up "butching up" his presentation was because he got sexually harassed by too many gay dudes who approached him like gross straight men approach women, which he said really opened his eyes to a whole aspect of male behaviour he hadn't previously been aware of. Like my dad used to enjoy going to gay clubs despite not being into men because there were more men there who's masculinity he could relate to than he could find in any straight setting, and he didn't have a problem being hit on as long as they took no for an answer. That's not a typical straight experience I would say.

@Desimere

2 жыл бұрын

yeah i'm sometimes wondering whether i would be considered queer. I used to think i was straight gray-a, but then i figured out that i'm not gray-a, but only attracted to men who are extremely submissive and within that subset my rate of sexual attraction is fairly normal. I'm still straight, but the men i'm attracted to are usually queer. I still identify as a woman, but enjoy presenting in a way that would intimidate people. I always felt uncomfortable with feminine dress. Technically i should not be considered queer, especially because i do not agree with femininity being defined through submissiveness and "niceness", but most of my romantic interests are closeted (about their submissiveness rather than their bisexuality) and my dating experiences are quite unconventional. I'm not a social event type of person though, so i have never had to make the decision about how to classify myself in a social group setting. It's just yt that makes me wonder.

@SynthApprentice

2 жыл бұрын

When I meet new people, I sometimes like to joke that I'm one of the gayest straight guys out there.

i think out of all the emo bands mcr, and especially gerard way, were the most sincere in their political statements on queerness and feminism. gerard way has talked about cross-dressing in art school and a few years ago said his pronouns were he/they. lyrics like "i don't know how were just two men as god has made us (...) I'll kiss your lips again" and "you should have raised a baby girl i should have been a better son" are also very clear allusions to queerness. he also had a stage rant at one time about how angry it made him when bands would use their fame to get girls/women to "show their tits", and encouraged his female fans to "spit in their face and say 'fuck you!'". i think it would be a shame to clump them in with bands like fob/patd who were clearly not as progressive as they made themselves out to be at the time.

@lenadesouza

2 жыл бұрын

Besides the fact that I believe that “You Know What They Do to Guys Like Us in Prison” is actually about sexual violence against men in prison (and that is not homosexuality, but violence, the song title is very self explanatory), I do agree with everything you said.

@fannyberg5869

2 жыл бұрын

@@lenadesouza yes i think you’re right! but i also think that it’s about violence against queer men in prison (“guys like US”), and that gerard willingly put himself in the position of being that queer man in the song. if that makes sense :)

@lenadesouza

2 жыл бұрын

@@fannyberg5869 yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Never thought of it like that. I always thought that he was referring to tiny boys, kinda “weak” and not very masculine, but you gave another perspective.

@bat7696

2 жыл бұрын

LOUDER FOR THE EMOS IN THE BACK!!!

@kashiichan

2 жыл бұрын

MCR's "I'm Not Okay" video literally plays with this idea, where a popular girl and Frank lean in towards each other, as if going for a kiss, only for Frank to remove a stray eyelash from her eye/cheek.

The band Green Day is actually bisexual and the frontman, Billie Joe Armstrong is known to kiss one man before every concert. He has also openly said that he is Bisexual:"I think I've always been bisexual. I mean, it's something that I've always been interested in. I think people are born bisexual, and it's just that our parents and society kind of veer us off into this feeling of "Oh, I can't." They say it's taboo. It's ingrained in our heads that it's bad, when it's not bad at all. It's a very beautiful thing." Billie Joe is a very good role model and accepts people for who they are. He also likes to carry pride flags on stage if someone in the audience has one. Green Day also is very inclusive, posting things online about "be nice to yourself" and other things. Billie, Tre, and Mike of Green Day also kiss each other on occasion. Billie Joe also hates Donald Trump, Facists, KKK, Racists, and Homophobes. Green Day's political views seem pretty liberal, although Billie Joe says he is independant.

@meli_lemon_real

Жыл бұрын

I LOVE GREEN DAY❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

@SeptemberOftheDead

Жыл бұрын

@@meli_lemon_realM E T O O. They are my absolute FAVORITE band!!! I’ve posted some stuff about them on my channel. I was Billie Joe for Halloween.

@meli_lemon_real

Жыл бұрын

@@SeptemberOftheDead THATS SO COOL!!!!!

@dutchessdreamer4543

Жыл бұрын

Green Day is awesome. As a black girl he’s so cute.

@Freya_Blue

9 ай бұрын

I don't think you can say someone is actually bisexual with your only support being that they kiss a bunch of different guys. That honestly sounds a lot more like continuing the hypersexualized fan-serving stereotype of bisexuals.

Ngl watching Katy Perry's video at 13yo was the moment my bisexuality clicked into place for me. It is also probably part of why my sexuality became very performative and self-fetishizing in my late teens and early 20s. Glad to say I've unlearned a lot of it and I'm still proudly queer in my late 20s.

@TigerPrawn_

7 ай бұрын

It was Kesha's She Wolf for me :/

It took me until my 30s to realise I was bi. Growing up smack bang in the middle of 2000s emo, so many people in my friendship group identified as bi, that I just assumed that it was statistically impossible for me to be bi as well. As I watched most (certainly not all) of the bi emo 14 year olds I knew grow up into straight young adults who laughed about their bicurious phase, I held back year after year - because I was bound to grow out of it in six months time too right?? It's so bizarre and funny and human that I was able to just keep overlooking this fact about myself despite being surrounded by other emo girls WHO WOULD DEFINITELY HAVE MADE OUT WITH ME IF I'D WANTED CONFIRMATION.

@FLIPPYNMADZ

2 жыл бұрын

Similar to how it took me till my mid 20s. In my head because of the idea that women weren't really bi and it was seen as a trend and my friends kept coming out as bi around me I convinced myself that i wasn't bi and i just thought i was cause trend???

@obliviousred

2 жыл бұрын

Relatable!! While I've never been in emo world, I'm in other subcultures where bisexuality is relatively common. I figured it was so normal that there was no point in me owning or exploring my sexuality, and that it would just be disrespectful to all of my more "legitimate" bi friends. In retrospect, I've actually just always been drawn toward queer people, especially bisexuals, and that's why I find myself in spaces where bisexuality is normalized. When I go into the mainstream world I am reminded that this is not usually the case elsewhere. I suspect that many of us find ourselves in various subcultures (goth, emo, burner, fandom, kink, etc) since we aren't always welcome in queer spaces. Then we think that bisexuality is just how everyone is bc that's our bubble and we use that to invalidate ourselves. Not taking into account that these are bi-heavy subcultures for a reason - we don't always have many other safe places to go.

@Anonymous-54545

2 жыл бұрын

I had sort of the inverse. I'm a lesbian but due to wlw being so famous under the label bisexual, I assumed I was bi as well, just "actually bi", which I basically took to mean "willing to tolerate men because of supply and demand until I can actually get a gf". I don't know what came over me but the older I got the more I just allowed this assumption that I was bi to prevent me from figuring out I was completely lesbian? I thought you had to like... idk, be some magical creature to be a real lesbian. I WISHED I were a lesbian. I didn't realize I could just... go be a lesbian.

@GrrrlStyleNow

2 жыл бұрын

@@Anonymous-54545 This totally makes sense to me on a couple of levels! I think this experience of "oh well I can tolerate this" is what a lot of my friends who initially identified as bi went through. They didn't feel the kind of straight up disgust about the concept of queer relationships that some of our other classmates did, and they were gender non-conforming in aspects of their presentation, so like it's pretty reasonable for them to have concluded that they were bi really, given how little space existed in the cultural narrative for it to just be what it was. It sounds to me like you maybe went through a version of that too "well I don't actively hate men as people so I guess this is what's going on then?" I have no idea how often I thought "I wish I was bi", but it was a whole whole lot. Eventually I got round to saying to myself "hey maybe constantly wishing that your identity gave you 'permission' to sleep with women means you want to sleep with women you daft spoon."

@GrrrlStyleNow

2 жыл бұрын

@@obliviousred Yes absolutely!! I think going to art school, being involved in fandoms, and always being somewhere in the alt music subcultures like I have totally gives you a different understanding of how common bi/queer people are. I had a really bemused conversation with my brother recently where I couldn't get my head around him never having met a non-binary person. "But I know like five" I kept saying, but his life experience, despite being within the same geography as me, just doesn't bring him into contact with queer people very often.

The "bisexuality is sexy to straight men" trope of many actually straight girls still haunts me as a bi person. When I came out to one friend of mine she assured me a thousand times that it was OK. I was taken aback by this because there was no need to be saying it so many times. We went to the club afterwards and she was asked by a man for her number. Instead of saying that she had a boyfriend of six years, she put her arm around my waist, pulled me close and smiled at him: "I'm sorry. She's my girlfriend." There was no reason to do this. Afterwards, I could feel several men around us staring at us and I felt uncomfortable. I was unsure whether they were ogling us because they found that sexy or because they were an actual danger to us. She seemed completely unaware how wrong that was and even how dangerous queerness could be to me.

@mysmirandam.6618

Жыл бұрын

Gosh did we have the same friend?

@printer_fire475

Жыл бұрын

Wait so in one fell swoop she sexualized/fetishized bi women, potentially lied about her sexuality, and outed you potentially putting you in danger?

@Pschychotically

Жыл бұрын

@@printer_fire475 yep, that happened 😁👀

@Pschychotically

Жыл бұрын

@Tomato Sauce Thank you for your kind answer. ❤️ Yep, I am still in contact with that friend. I actually changed my approach towards contact with her ever since then. I honestly don't know she would really understand, tbh. Having the proper behaviour usually means having been educated and raised properly. LGBTQIA+ friendly or even acceptable behaviour is a thing which is to be learned and to be learned by some people with difficulty. She just picked up what society suggests to her. That bi for women is sexy. In that moment, she only cared about her own image and that is not just something happening in regard to my sexual orientation. So I changed my behaviour towards her. She's a pretty old friends and sometimes such "friendships" are not easily gotten rid of...

@nevaehonrefni

Жыл бұрын

Also out of all people I've been hit on ..women have been the most disgusting towards me and using "we're better than men" "we know what we want from each other better" and it's made me extremely uncomfortable. I had one girl who was blowing up my DMs constantly when I said I was single but I was fresh out of a relationship. Everything innocent eventually became sexualized and it was awful.

one thing i think is particularly sad about the stage gay in emo scene is how after that "trend" passed by, some queer artists in it like gerard way are kinda invalidated all the time even inside their own fanbase. in his case specifically it makes me really angry how even after saying that they don't identify as a man and is more feminine aligned, prefers he/they pronouns, does not identify as straight either and literally showing up wearing feminine clothes/makeup pretty often, doing drag on stage or covering himself with nonbinary and trans flags on stage while talking about his relationship with gender for crowds of people in their solo tour all that above only stuff that happend since 2014, not counting 2000's or stuff before mcr even existed, people would say nothing of that rly matters because he's maried to a woman and had a kid . and honestly it's weird to think that no matter what you do or say if you don't fit in their ideas of how a queer person looks like then you're not one, but somehow you would still suffering queerphobhia from the same people.

"Emos contra darketos" in Querétaro is so iconic, and it's just an example of the immense amounts of violence displayed against this people, not only in México, but in all Latinoamérica. Thank you so much for mentioning it, it is the first time i've ever seen it being taken seriously.

I always felt that MCR were kinda the exception of the 'emo trinity'. In general, their sound is less 'pop punk' than the other two (although danger days fits the genre). Everything was so high concept and not entirely focused on women. Their albums told more of a story and looked into dynamics. Sometimes songs had lgbtq themes with references to drag and looking at men. MCR has always been very respectful of women, Gerard especially. He was very focal on men who tried to exploit women and how he designed his comic book characters. His most recent comic depicted a trans woman Kara and didn't make her whole story about her gender. MCR weren't trying to queerbait, they were trying to make homophobes uncomfortable and fans just got into it. Gerard doesn't label himself and didn't want the band being defined as emo as MCR defined itself as its own entity. Emo itself was a safe space for me, I wasn't trying to fit a specific mold of what emo should be, I just enjoyed MCR and elements of the fashion. It evolved to Goth for me but I still enjoy MCR as they really shaped my morals and views.

@kittykittybangbang9367

Жыл бұрын

What's the name of Gerard's recent comic?

@chipbag6277

Жыл бұрын

@@kittykittybangbang9367 the true lives of the fabulous killjoys: national anthem :)

@paranormeow

Жыл бұрын

yeah!! mcr is freakin awesome

@davidkay1948

Жыл бұрын

@@paranormeow nah offspring are and nofx lol

@jazzspider8569

Жыл бұрын

@@davidkay1948 They can both be awesome lol

as I guess a survivor of the mexican emo wars, I grew up in mexico and considered myself a pansexual emo boy, who is now a pansexual girl. Emo really let me be feminine when nothing else did, i could wear makeup, i could be cute and feminine. Dressing and looking emo, had me get the attention of (older) men, and that feeling was something I didn't recognize until later was very gender euphoric.

@0ut.the.0x

2 жыл бұрын

this is so un-talked about!! the androgyny of emo culture wasn't just queer in a sexuality way, but in a gender way as well. many emo bisexual and gays were actually closeted trans people that used androgyny to dive into their gender queer-ness

@australianmagpie2221

Жыл бұрын

THE MEXICAN EMO WARS GIRL

@thirdwheel9938

Жыл бұрын

You know, I never got why emos got so much hate back in the day, it makes so much sense it was rooted on homophobia :/ Also, congrats on the gender!

@fabbygarza9863

Жыл бұрын

@@australianmagpie2221 im sure there is more than one of us lol

@fabbygarza9863

Жыл бұрын

@@thirdwheel9938 thank u i picked it myself

"BETA MALE MISOGYNY" - you absolutely NAILED what emo music/lyrics have always sounded like to me.

I remember at my school it was OK to be 'bi-curious' but not bisexual. Made things really confusing.

"We're here, we're queer. Do you want my f*cking money or not?" One of the many favorite quotes out of this video.

People love to shit on other people, but Måneskin's performance in Poland was so powerful especially when you know the context. That it happened like a few days after we were suggested a new homophobic bill. It wasn't on some MTV, where mostly young hip people watch it, it was on one of the 3-4 most popular TV channels in the country, and during the programming that would be watched mostly by boomer, gen x and maybe late millennial audience. It was just after they won the Eurovision and their kisses after they won were cut from all the reruns in a government funded tv. It was huge for me and left me crying for the night

@nainonandy

Жыл бұрын

Some people don’t realize that same sex marriage is still Not legal in Italy… Måneskin does a lot more than people give them credit for

@lorenavrcelj9937

Жыл бұрын

@@nainonandy is it not i thought it is (at least google says it is)

@lorenavrcelj9937

Жыл бұрын

Oh nevermind I read that it's only civil union

@Mia199603

Жыл бұрын

I hope Polish government and Poland as a whole will soon collapse. I can't imagine how people in this country can still tolerate what's happening here. I hope they will loosen up the gun law as they plan and people will pick up arms and visit our parliament. It's gone too far already, something needs to be done

@seaangel1430

Жыл бұрын

@@nainonandy oh shit im so sorry for italians :(

18:06 stuck out to me so much! i remember so many memes made by emo girls themselves how they weren't like the "school sl*ts that'd give it up for anyone" and cared more about their favorite band/fashion instead. so much internalized misogyny ran rampant

When I first defined my sexuality as bi, I kept asking myself if I was just on the trend train, and unfortunately even now I can't help but ask the same questions despite my bodies reactions.

@jemappellecaro3934

Жыл бұрын

A yes, unfortunately bisexual and imposter síndrome come together xD

I never got how metalheads, punks and emos got into fights. They’re both so close in styles and makeup and yet so different.

@thisisnotausernameXD

2 жыл бұрын

Emo is the half way point to black metal lol

@anonmouse15

Жыл бұрын

It's fun.

@sirrivet9557

Жыл бұрын

Main difference between emos and punks is mostly about hope and effort when it comes to solving political issues? Punk focuses more on economic political issues and emo focuses more on social issues? Honestly I don’t know why we hate each other. I’m a punk but I guess most my friends are emo/scene. It’s all dumb cliques though most people get along fine.

@ithinkiwoulddie9196

Жыл бұрын

sometimes it’s because one feels more superior than the other even though they’re both fighting for different reason

@Saturnthroughstars

Жыл бұрын

@@sirrivet9557 Its weird for me since I identity as both punk and emo.

you maybe forgot to mention that gerard way is actually queer, like he may not be bisexual but he's not cis - from the Gerard Way wikipedia article : "There was a time where I was called a girl so often that when I discovered the idea of transgenderism I considered myself to be more of a girl. So I identify with trans people and women a lot because I was a girl to a lot of people growing up." In June 2015, Way tweeted that he uses he and they pronouns."

@imoh.6247

2 жыл бұрын

Ä

@localabsurdist6661

2 жыл бұрын

Yes same goes for Frank. He said in a few interviews back in the day that he’s bi. Gerard never but a label to their sexuality. I remember him posting a photo of Morrissey with the caption “when people ask about my sexuality”. Morrissey is also queer but never put a specific label on himself.

@backchanneling

2 жыл бұрын

@@localabsurdist6661 Frank identified himself as straight in an Instagram post about George Floyd's murder back in May 2020. Gerard is just unlabeled, or has at least implied as such.

@bruisedviolets

2 жыл бұрын

@@localabsurdist6661 nah frank said he’s straight

@thatgirlfrommn6249

2 жыл бұрын

Source?

Everything you said was spot on. I’m a bisexual 31 year old woman and I’ve been with one woman because I’ve never felt like being bisexual was supported by any community. Thanks for validating this. 💜💅

"The girls could play, as long as they understood the boys were watching" - that's so right lol

The bits about the difference between bisexual chic and queerbaiting are super fascinating and I think really important to add to the Discourse. I think it's spot on and it's fascinating how limited our understanding of these things is by the discursive tools we have on hand.

@anony-missy

2 жыл бұрын

It irks me so much that any sort of performative queerness just gets lumped under “queerbaiting” regardless of the broader context. Queerbaiting is about fictional characters and media, not real people. Real people do not owe anyone a relationship or a confirmation of sexuality. Criticize celebrities for fetishizing queer relationships or using social movements to enrich themselves without giving genuine support to the movements or whatever, but stop calling everything queerbaiting.

Harry Styles is an interesting case cause when he was in One Direction, fans were constantly shipping him and one of the band members as if they were in a secret relationship and harassing their gf calling them beards. Now when he’s open to being gender non-conforming and being implied queer, it’s now queer-baiting. People are weird.

@francapiroto763

Жыл бұрын

The way people treat this man is absolutely disgusting. I'm not even a fan of his music but I respect him a lot as a person

@jamangel

Жыл бұрын

Right smh

@-topic9506

Жыл бұрын

he's said before that he doesn't use labels for his sexuality and really I think that's what gets people most. it's unfathomable to so many in the community that some people just aren't comfortable with labeling themselves and because they didn't understand it, they reject it. you know, kind of like homophobes sometimes do

@blrfivvuvu

Жыл бұрын

@@-topic9506 The first time I joined a LGBT group on facebook someone said something, your comment brought back that memory. So, it was the first time I talked about my sexuality openly in a detailed way. I was talking about how I liked a lot of characters in movies, cartoons, celebrities but I never liked a girl or anyone for that matter, in real life, so I loved the idea of dating a girl like those characters, but was confused it since I never ever had a crush on someone but considered myself a lesbian. And the first comment I got was that I do not need to label myself, some people might think that my situation means being ''queer'' but just because I like girls, it does not mean I need to call myself a lesbian and that not everyone needs a label, that it is valid. To this day, I still think that comment helped me be more happy with myself, even if I never liked someone.

@AvesmacK

Жыл бұрын

From what I’ve seen on tiktok if Harry wants to date a guy it can ONLY be Louis even though they’ve both said before they don’t like being shipped and Louis said how it ruined their friendship. Cause God forbid Harry dates anyone besides Louis.

I'm amazed there isn't more on "Bar-sexuals" in this. That was a really big aspect of the "bisexual chic" in the '00s. I remember there was an entire episode of Tyra Banks' talk show dedicated to it. These girls came in thinking they'd spread some positive message about sexual liberation and got absolutely berated by Tyra and the Audience for an hour straight (pun intended).

The delegitimization of bisexual women by lesbians is the reasons why I've never been able to fully experience my own sexuality and I doubt i'm alone in that. Hopefully we're done with that stereotype now.

@sideshowmob

2 ай бұрын

lesbians owe you nothing

the fact that girls/girls/boys was first started by dallon weekes as an anthem for his wife coming to terms with her sexuality and then brendon urie changed it to fetishise bi women is another reason to stan dallon weekes over brendon urie.

@angelical5386

2 жыл бұрын

Damn, I loved this song lmao

@vibrant_violet

2 жыл бұрын

Idkhbtfm>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Panic! Anyways, Dallon Weekes will always be the coolest guy to me and Brendon sucks

@MotionlessInDwight

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly! I'm sick of Brendon stealing the credit to other people's songs

@rubydupyII

2 жыл бұрын

@@MotionlessInDwight I'm sorry, but he didn't "steal" dallons song. The song is credited to Panic! at the Disco, which both Brendon and Dallon were part of during that time, and both Brendon and Dallon are credited as writers. This is also the first time I've ever heard about it being about Dallons wife instead of Brendons threesome. And why does it matter?, If the gay community, or at least the gay part of the Panic! fandom identify with the song as a gay anthem, why would it matter why the song was written in the first place? Edit: I looked it up and nowhere on the internet it says anything about Dallons involvement apart from the juicy bassline Edit 2: okay dallon tweeted about it two years ago. So he co wrote it, so what? Maybe a song can have multiple inspirations. Both Dallons wife and Brendons sexual experience made them realise that the world of sexual identity is much more nuanced than what meets the eye, and that's what the song is about. Both Dallon and Brendon are good people. I prefer Dallon because I identify with his nerdy and cute personality, but Brendon is a great person too, and I think other fandoms should stop hating him for no reason.

@aphrog649

2 жыл бұрын

@@rubydupyII dallon really did write it… and he didn’t originally write it for panic! so it is a bit misleading to say that brendon also wrote it even if he’s credited as a writer

I was in an LGBTQ+ workshop in my last job and someone said bisexuals were just people who hadn't 'grown enough as people' to be pansexual. Like, wtf??? I've heard I'm not gay enough, not straight enough, that I don't exist, but that was a new one!!

@jalapeno1119

2 жыл бұрын

It's not new. This is the narrative many people push and genuinely believe. Haven't you heard? Pansexuality is more trendy than those trashy bi's.

@cryinginmyroom8726

Жыл бұрын

I am so sorry as a pan person for that honestly let’s just not comment on someone else’s sexuality please

@davidkay1948

Жыл бұрын

@@jalapeno1119 if bi is trashy so is pan coz it's same thing with extra steps

@kittypeanut4102

Жыл бұрын

@@davidkay1948 being pansexual is a label that falls in the bisexuality sprectrum. Your comment is quite rude.

@davidkay1948

Жыл бұрын

@@kittypeanut4102 u just re wrote my point thanks for repeating me but its the truth not rude I dint say greedy lol

Made me smile to see you throw in a reference to "Girls" by Rita Ora at the end. I don't know if I'll ever stop being pissed about the backlash leveled at that song.

Holy shit. Was not prepared for the Gollum lead in. Your videos are fantastic

Being a biromantic nonbinary Pole the Måneskin situation's context is indeed crucial. The concert happened around the reelection of party that built it's support around fear mongering against LGBT folks. It's really hard to explain how tense the situation around LGBT rights is here nowadays. So for me that kiss and mini speech was rather heart warming even before starting to listen to the band. It's funny how I never noticed link between LGBT community and emos, but I guess subcultures in Poland are rather timid

@artastic_friend

2 жыл бұрын

Hi! I'm Polish too!(well- half Polish..) And non-binary as well- I was wondering how you personally deal with pronons and your gender identity in Poland and in the polish language. If you are comfortable with sharing of course. I, in English, personally use They/them pronouns, but in polish I've always been conflicted and never sure if I should use masculine or feminine when referring to myself.. Again, you don't need to talk about this if you are not comfortable, but if you are I'd appreciate to hear it!😊💙 I hope you have a great day!

@kittypawprints4me

2 жыл бұрын

@@artastic_friend I've seen non-binary pronouns being used in the masculine pronoun "on", but since that's still gendered (which you can still do, it's all up to what you want), there have been some people who use "oni", which is technically the plural "they". I think "oni" is slowly being recognized as a singular they, but linguistic rules around pronouns in Polish is built differently than English. There are still some issues with it, and it might take some time for it to be established on a larger basis so that non lgbt people get used to it, but overall I think "oni" is a great start :)

@artastic_friend

2 жыл бұрын

@@kittypawprints4me oh cool! Thank you!! In that situation when referring to yourself would you use the plural as well? For example, „zjadłem jabłko” would that change to „zjedliśmy jabłko”? I’m sorry if this is a dumb question at all- But I am curious if it is an option that people do or if they do something else- I think I would be ok with just using singular masculine word endings- the problem is that since I am AFAB there are many people who just think I’m not educated on the fact there are masculine and feminine endings and they tend to correct me- I don’t want to be disrespectful and say “actually no-“ but at the same time it’s very dysphoric for me as well 💀 Either way, I’m happy to talk to someone about this topic because I’ve always wanted to ask someone but never had anyone around who was knowledgeable in both areas- I know that in the end whatever I am most comfortable with is probably the best thing to go with, but I would love to hear what other people do as well as it can help at times😊

@kittypawprints4me

2 жыл бұрын

@@artastic_friend Yeah, that would probably be the best example. Again, it's clunkier and kinda sounds a bit stranger than "zjadłem/zjadłam", for example "oni zjedli" sounds a bit more singular than "zjedliśmy" but both are still considered they, and therefore would be correct. That's what I mean about Polish gendered terms being a bit more confusing to go around. But of course there will always be people trying to correct you, esp if you don't look/sound native to the polish language lol. Most lgbt people tend to not correct the use of natural masculine endings, since that often falls as the default gender for most words/pronouns. But hopefully the introduction of singular they catches on soon around non lgbt people, and they won't feel the need to correct others as much. I know how challenging it can be! In English I use any pronouns, but unfortunately I stick to only feminine ones in Polish because I find it easier to not have to explain it to others who struggle with it. But, I would def suggest for you to do what's comfortable for you! And don't feel like you have to comply to old views or ideas just because of that! Best of luck on this journey, do what you feel is best! Edit: I forgot to add the use of "it" sometimes as well, which is used sometimes when referring to something nongendered. Again like in the English language, some people use it but it's also seen as dehumanizing by some, so it's up to the person's preference. So, instead of "oni zjedli" it would be "ono zjadło".

@abibas3050

2 жыл бұрын

​@@artastic_friend powoli rozwijają się w polskim neopronouns, jest jedno polskie forum lgbt na reddit gdzie warto się o to spytać 💕

Imo, MCR is a strange case that shows a lot of what it was like through how they deviated from the rest. On one hand, things like the I'm Not Okay and Blood music videos gives off the very fall out boy esc misogyny, but if you zoom out and see that in the context of their wider work, it seems almost bizzare. With Blood, it was about re-lapsing into destructive behavior and having the people around you encourage it, and I'm Not Okay is a song that's a part of a story line that is symbolic of Gerard's fall into drugs and alcoholism in the wake of his grandmother's death. The point of the song is drawing a line between him and the audience. It's trying to say, "This isn't a fashion thing. We are genuinely self-destructive and it's killing us. You don't want to emulate this," a theme carried over to a song literally called, "It's not a fashion statement, it's a death wish." The homoerotic nature of what they do is made more obvious when the open before singing Honey, This Mirror isn't Big Enough For The Two of Us with, "This song is about sucking d*ck for cocaine." The reality of it is that they were honestly expressing their experiences and that resonated with people. They were a product of tragedy and homophobia so they responded by embracing who they were despite other's hatred of them and that resonated with me and many other people. There was also a rejection of misogyny through their framing. Failing relationships were talked about through a lens of becoming incompatible with someone over time like in I Don't Love You and Early Sunsets. Even ignoring Gerard's solo career in which a lot of his songs are about women who's stories are about things entirely divorced from relationships, the presence of women in the band's music does not frame women as objects or as inferior, but has them as people who's personalities and lives have an effect of them, whether that be in Bullets where it is about a relationship that re-inforces drug use both ways, in Three Cheers which was about Gerard and Mikey's grandmother and their regret that they didn't know her as well as they wish they did, or in The Black Parade where the love interest is symbolic of many things including how the band was affecting the relationship between Gerard and Mikey as brothers. That was a bit long-winded, but I think that there's a reason that MCR is still beloved to this day while PATD and FOB have become almost embarrassing in retrospect. The introspection of MCR was an understanding that their problems were caused by themselves just as much as anyone else that allowed for a respect of women and queer people as individuals rather than objects or symbols.

@m00nrac00n

2 жыл бұрын

Agree. MCR is just different. They were always the real deal. A clear vision. Thats why their work aged just fine. There are actual stories behind the Songs - its not just "Some writer made this Song for us"

@maggieyarbrough9637

Жыл бұрын

you said basically everything i wanted to say LOL great analysis!!! i love MCR and i do feel like gerard’s overall queerness was central to stepping into my own growing up. it really wasn’t queerbaiting to me.

@user-gk2sc4ky4i

Жыл бұрын

While I grew up liking FOB which I can only sum up as 😔 MCR even to someone from the outside was fully the real deal they weren’t glorifying the “rockstar” aesthetic they were living it and felt abt it. I still like FOB music but it’s def the were so hot and bad damn 😏 vibe vs MCR that tells so many stories of what it is to be like in ppl/their shoes

@Siures

Жыл бұрын

Still love The Used. I like that most songs just leave out every gender. Their not about sex or gender at all. But I loved the Under pressure cover with MCR :)

@Saturnthroughstars

Жыл бұрын

@@user-gk2sc4ky4i Don't feel so bad. The sexism is mostly Pete's fault lol.

Okay but I appreciated the pronunciation of queretaro at 6:45

The discussion regarding the subversiveness of or problems with emo subculture given the artists being primarily straight men is very close to my heart, since as you put it what it feels like it primarily subverts is traditional views of "masculinity" rather than sexuality. It helped me to understand myself as an emotional, slender, long-haired _man_ regardless of the fact that I identified as a straight cis man. So I value it for that, for making me feel that even though I'm a straight cis man I don't have to pretend to be traditionally "masculine" or "macho". That being said, I really appreciate hearing this perspective and seeing the flaws in its depictions, as it's things not easily obvious to me given my identity 🤍

With the recent success of Heartstopper, I’m curious to see how the narrative around bisexuality will shift. One of the lead characters is Bi and the first season details his struggle with coming to terms with his sexuality beautifully in my opinion.

@queermastree9944

2 жыл бұрын

@@aday4evr exactly. as much as many people define themselves as bisexual before discovering that they’re actually gay/lesbian etc (which is completely valid, as discovering your sexuality is a journey), i think its incredibly harmful for the bi community to be commonly defined as just a gateway to being gay/lesbian. bisexuality is a sexuality in itself, not just a halfway point to being gay. and i love heartstopper for how it dealt with the subject

@jamangel

Жыл бұрын

Yes!!

@jamangel

Жыл бұрын

@@aday4evr yes a amazing moment!!!

@jamangel

Жыл бұрын

@@queermastree9944 yes!!!

@idromano

Жыл бұрын

I think Nick's process was the first bissexual awakening I've seen on media. I saw myself so much there because "I used to like girls but now I like a boy". I had thought I was gay but now I think what really happened was simply bi erasure.

I was an emo middle schooler and I’m still getting the “oh you’re marrying a man? So you WERE straight this whole time,” in 2022, so this video was an emotional and academic rollercoaster. Love your work, as always, Verity!

You know, as a bi guy, suddenly it makes sense why I always liked emo boys and the aesthetic that came with it.

Ironically my bi awakening was Andy Biersack, and Black Veil Brides was definitely one of the most emo bands that I listened to growing up

I’m afab non-binary and my cis husband is bisexual; we’ve been together for 14 years, have a 3-year-old, and we STILL get ignorant questions when people find out he’s bi, like, “ohhh! How does THAT work?!” I imagine it works the same way YOUR monogamous marriage works, Karen… just because the goods are out there, doesn’t mean you need to sample them! 🙄

@marijkecuffe5488

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. I am a bi cis female who is married to a straight cis male. We are monogamous, but you wouldn't believe how many people ask stupid questions about giving my husband a threesome as a special present or worse try to hook me up with their lesbian/bi/non monogamous friends knowing I am in a happy monogamous marriage.

@brinoreeno

Жыл бұрын

I'm a bisexual woman in a monogamous relationship with my straight boyfriend & the reactions have been wild & varied. My mom thinks I'm straight now. His parents think I will leave him for a woman. Lol

You missed one amaizing and key part of the emo attack in México: the ones who stopped one of the mayor ones were a group of Hare Krishna people who literally put hemselves in between the emos and the punks/metal heads, they brought drums, inciense and food I think and this is regarded as a very surreal and awesome date to remember in México. *I was always too punk to get into emo but I really liked the style and my first guess that people could actually be bi was from emo fandoms/online communities. Also Billie Joe Armstrong coming out as bi basically solidified my notion that I could too be bi.

@dandywaysofliving

2 жыл бұрын

It's funny. I never identified as any group. I just saw myself as a bum who likes black.eventually I found my niche. But at the time I was in the punk scene. I didn't hate emos. . I hated hard-core kids and their helicopter dancing tantrums, they called dancing/moshing. . Besides that I supported everyone and didn't discriminate unless I saw u being a douche hitting people aggressively. . I'm not gonna justify or explain why I don't like that specific behavior but hard-core was whatever to me. Didn't really care. Emo. Seemed like a myth to me. I imagined the only way to truly be emo is to be self isolated and sad. Didn't understand it. I imagined emo was just soft punk. The pichu to pikachu

@roj4169

2 жыл бұрын

whaat?!! How did I not know that until now?! I feel like this is an important part of our country's history to not know this detail.

@sirrivet9557

Жыл бұрын

I never understood why punks, metalhead, and emos hate each other.

@KarlSnarks

Жыл бұрын

@@sirrivet9557 Kinda like sports teams hate eachother I guess. 1960's to 2000's rigid youth subcultures were pretty gatekeepy and excluded people who weren't 'different' in the same exact way. Nowadays you can like Ghostmane and Ariana Grande at the same time and no one will bet an eye. The downside of nowadays is that subcultures might have less depth and real-life community and serve as more of an aesthetic.

Jrock acts in the '00s were doing this as well- I remember as a goth teen listening to Malice Mizer and Dir en Grey and being obsessed with finding pictures of the band members. Both bands used drag and stage kisses for the benefit of their female audience. Mana, from Malice Mizer, had a very elaborate drag persona and was a huge figure in gothic lolita fashion. Shinya and Toshiya from Dir en Grey did numerous drag photoshoots as promo material. I don't know enough about the goth subculture in Japan at the time to say what their fandom irl was like, but I know that English language online fandoms treated them the same way as MCR and FOB with widespread shipping and fanfiction. I'd love to know the roots of that and what became of that part of the subculture.

@Kitkat-rz3tx

9 ай бұрын

Not to mention the gazettE had huge amounts of fan service back then

@LarnieRadek

9 ай бұрын

OMG that's a name I haven't seen written down or thought about for over a decade!!!

I'm a man and I like men and women and have known it since I was 5. Now in my 30s. This is the longest fad I've ever followed.

@RogerBluesky

Жыл бұрын

High five there, my man!!🙌✨

The 2000s were so misogynist, I don't miss it! I remember when Adam Lambert kissed his guitarist at the AMAs there was so much outrage and fallout. Although punk was very masculine I think it's worth remembering the queer and feminine presence of many including Debbie Harry, Vivienne Westwood, Wayne/Jayne County, New York Dolls, Patti Smith, etc etc. I always thought Gollum called Dobby a "f*cking f*ck" but was it actually the slur word?

@celvsmachine

2 жыл бұрын

It was very very hard to navigate the 2000s as a queer person. So happy today is different. i get so excited seeing kids not fucking care about sexuality. I was outed in 2003 by someone I thought was a best friend lmao I can’t imagine the backlash they’d get today doing it. Oh yeah and I was emo at the time! Lmfao

@FatalBagel

3 ай бұрын

OMG That brought back memories!! I remember being like 13 yo and actively shipping Adam and his guitarist Tommy and was even upset that they weren't a real couple, what wild times!!

I want to first say thank you for talking about Emo’s influence within the LGBTQ+ community. While I definitely agree that some of it didn’t necessarily aged well, I feel like the openness of the music was the reason many people still resonate with the music today. Along with being a part of a community that was cool with who you are. I think the other side of the Emo to K-Pop pipeline is how the bigger bands like MCR and FOB helped to bring people to try out genres within the scene that weren’t usually on mainstream radio. Whether it’s Post-Hardcore like Pierce the Veil and Dance Gavin Dance to even Deathcore like Whitechapel and Chelsea Grin.

@jasminewadsworth1983

2 жыл бұрын

Why did I think this said “Elmo’s influence within the LGBTQ+ community” 😭😭😭

@beep3242

2 жыл бұрын

@@jasminewadsworth1983 Elmo is a queer icon, ok

I discovered I was bissexual in 2002. I went to a gay club a few times later, and heard a lot of girls making fun of bissexuality. Later, videos of 'would you date a bissexual' with lots of lesbian girls saying they could never. As a result, I passed YEARS being biphobic with myself, I would negate I was bi, would say I was lesbian. Years and years later I had a crush on a dude and that box was opened again. I realized I was bi, but refused for years. Now I say openly I am bi, but sadly, even tho is not as strong as before, biphobia is quite big inside the LGBT community.

omg, the mexican emo wars brought back many memories of la Rosa de Guadalupe and its endless episodes about those riots between emos and skaters xD such wild times

@ivanreeve653

2 жыл бұрын

ok, so give context, la Rosa de Guadalupe is a famous mexican soap opera. each episode is a independent stories of teenagers, families, etc. struggling. the stories all lead to some struggling person (in recent chapters, even a dog) ask for help to the st. of Guadalupe. and she answers with a white rose (that's the name: Rosa de Guadalupe, Guadalupe's rose) and helps the characters. you might think, well, is it good? and I say. noup, not at all. that's why it's popular all around Latino culture. it is super cringe and super conservative, until bizarre forms. it is ridiculous.

Gerard Way is an Icon. Point, Blank, Period. Just a great person. Gerard did a lot for the Time. Im from a small village and growing up in the 00s in a very heteronormative "masc" environment at the height of NuMetal (quite a masc scene aswell) Emo was just what I needed and getting some of the local "masc" NuMetal Boys into MCR or BMTH did a lot for me back then. You could watch them getting less toxic and more understanding over time. We just liked the music, without being classicaly Emo, and connected over similar taste.

This is truly educational, because I'd just dismissed emos as just soggy goth knock-offs. I didn't realize people were genuinely demonizing and mistreating them to such a disturbing degree---hell, just like they did to the goths, metalheads, and punks before them!

@TheKarret

2 жыл бұрын

True, I didn't realize the level of shit they were getting. Though some random kid did sneeringly try to call me "emo" as an insult, when I was clearly donning mallgoth attire, and just told him to get his stereotypes right. But yeah, in my school, most alternative kids hung out together - metalheads, mallgoths, emos, weebs, drama kids, some of the artsy kids. I was more metalhead, but my best friend at the time was emo. :Va Skaters hung out in a different area, though.

@sezzac155

2 жыл бұрын

It was quite intense. My relationship to the scene is complicated, but the short answer is that I was in high school when It was occurring, and for a time the atmosphere of hate prevented me from acknowledging that I liked the music let alone looking that way. My Chemical Romance took the brunt of it for me (ironically they are now my favourite out of the three), Panic! at the Disco and Fall Out Boy had because of their singles (and probably less dark image) slightly more acceptance. I really do wonder how much of the hate was manufactured by the (conservative?) mass media. Like yes, a lot of the artists were straight men. And yes, those artists engaged in performative homosexuality/bisexuality, but I never once got the sense that the artists or fans didn't know that that's what they were. This goes for the label of 'emo' too, it was from an outside source like the Daily Mail. The bands knew that they weren't 'true'/80s emo, the fans knew through said bands that the bands weren't 'true'/80s emo and yet somehow 'emo' is the word we need to use or else others lose all understanding of what music we mean.

@Acidfunkish

2 жыл бұрын

I was a bit old for scene and emo, personally. But in schools and basically everywhere kids liked to hang out, in my city, it was all alternative kids vs everyone else. The goths, punks, and skaters, the ravers, club kids, and mall rats, and eventually, the emo and scene kids, all intermingled somewhat (most went to the same artsy high school), and had a kind of understanding; we stick up for each other, no matter what. We ALL felt a fair bit disenfranchised, especially in comparison to the "norm," so it just made sense. I actually miss back then, sometimes. Knowing that, no matter what day it was, or where I was, I could almost definitely find at least one group to hang with? It was nice. 👍🏻 Making friends as an adult is way harder. 😅

Thank you so, so much for this fantastic, in depth analysis. I'm so glad I found your channel! I'm 31 and this era had a profound affect on my experiences and acceptance of myself in a hugely negative way. As a bisexual cis woman, I was 24 before I came out, and despite being married to a cis het man now, I still have to assure people around us that my being a proud advocate of bisexuality does not mean I'm going to one day leave my husband for a woman. I'm monogomous. It's gross and exhausting that it's socially acceptable for us to have our loyalty and character questioned openly and regularly. Deeper still, the perception of bisexual women existing for men continues to contribute to the horreandously high number of queer people subjected to SA by straight people, continually given a pass to sexualise and abuse us. I've experienced this twice in my life, once by a cis het male who after two years of friendship and being my boss, saw me kiss a woman i was seeing at the time. It completely changed his demeanor towards me. I was horrified. I never, ever would have expected this person who I trusted deeply to go from being a close friend to a predator, purely from whitnessing what was a tender affectionate moment with a woman I cared about. Two years later the female bisexual partner of my husband's best friend took advantage of me when I was extremely intoxicated. But because the perpetrator was female, I have continually been made to feel untrustworthy or manipulative by those around us who again fail to understand that polyamory and monogamy are very clearly defined, separate things not related to a persons' sexuality. She was a girl. I must have wanted it. I'm tired of the world feeling entitled to use and judge me because my love runs deeper than gender, and that's too hard for them to understand.

I love how you reference the sources on a corner while talking about them, very convenient and easy to check, thank you ^^

I’m so glad I found this channel. Having a channel dedicated to bisexuality is amazing and makes me feel so valid. All my life I’ve been shit on by straight people and sometimes by the gay community too. It’s nice to be reassured like this. Thank you 💜

@GyakutenShaiban

2 жыл бұрын

SAME i love this channel so much bc it makes me feel so connected to being bi when otherwise I'm insecure abt "not being bi enough"

@TheKarret

2 жыл бұрын

I'm ace, but I love this channel too for the info~ Good vibes your way!

before the video premiere: being a 10 years old in 2000 was so wild for me as a bissexual/pansexual. When I first saw tattoo all the things she said I was shocked because meant a lot to me but I was too young to know how to communicate

@annabelapurva-madhuri4861

2 жыл бұрын

This

@RamenKitsune

2 жыл бұрын

Same! Like I would watch the video as much as I could, and I had to use MTV and MTV2. Also, an aside that doesn't matter, but it's t.A.T.u.

@Anonymous-54545

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I was growing up in evangelical Texas.

@chickenfoot2423

2 жыл бұрын

i felt the same way, it was heartbreaking to find out that one of the singers from tatu is actually aggressively homophobic! so nice to see someone who sees us as subhuman representing us for their own gain

I love mcr because they have always presented a safe space for anyone that feels unsafe In There day to day lives. And unlike Brendon Urie, they don't fetishize LGBTQ people.

@leonametalian

6 ай бұрын

right, if anything they embrace it. especially in the more recent years, each night's performance was in a different form of drag 😎

“I kissed a girl and I liked it” is fucking iconic and I won’t hear otherwise.

As a young, bisexual teen in the noughties (in the DEEP south of America), emo gave me a safe-space to experiment with my sexuality and to find out who I am. It isn't an exaggeration to say that the emo scene was full of boys making out - it was - this meant that no one batted an eye when I first made out with another boy. It was liberating and life-changing.

Very apt analysis of the misogynistic lyrics. As a trans guy, emo masculinity was one of the things that helped me realize where I fit into being a man. I always knew deep down I was a boy, that it made me happier and just felt right, but as I got older and female puberty hit things got difficult. Emo was basically my coping mechanism, still is in a way due to how important the music is to me and how well I fit the look, being young and androgynous. I started to eat, sleep, and breath emo music all my teen years, fantasizing about myself as the lead, usually adding in the caveat “but as a girl” so I wouldn’t have to think too hard about my gender issues. Unfortunately by thinking of myself as a masculine woman I used it as an excuse for my own misogynistic attitudes towards women and girls, fully buying into narratives about them being vapid and hard to understand because *I* didn’t understand them. (Not that I even tried most of the time) Getting a little older and figuring out my gender made me finally confront the blatant truth of “Oh, maybe reveling in calling women whores is really awful and sexist of me.”

@whalium889

2 жыл бұрын

Emo is great cuz everyone wears the same shit no matter their gender

@magnarcreed3801

2 жыл бұрын

I just don’t get the difference period. Like there’s no way to be a man or woman. So like… just exist. Ya know?

Just found your chanel and I want to say thank you for having a whole section about bisexuality on your youtube page and taking the concept of bisexuality seriously.

This video has been popping up on my suggested for a while - very, very happy I took the time out to watch and listen. Excellent viewing, thank you

i’m literally seeing my chemical romance this weekend and am a raging bi/pansexual who grew up during the late 90s/2000’s. a teenager during the height of this whole thing. this video was made for me and is perfectly timed. it’s actually hella spooky. praise homophobic gollum

@ElizabethMidfordHatesCops

2 жыл бұрын

We can only hope you get to witness Gerard kiss one of the band members like last night.

@youweremythtaken

2 жыл бұрын

ayyy I saw them last night. still riding the high!

@NONNaomi

2 жыл бұрын

@@ElizabethMidfordHatesCops YOO fr? Is there vid or pic evidence anywhere? Asking for a friend 🤪

@ElizabethMidfordHatesCops

2 жыл бұрын

@@NONNaomi I don't think links to Tumblr work.

@torib796

2 жыл бұрын

Please don't praise homophobic gollum, instead praise the potential of Gerard Way smooching a band member in front of your cute emo face!

"Bi chic" can be also interpreted as the straight fetishisation of bisexuals. But in terms of trends I feel like the gender-nonconforming / non-binary wave is coming, along with a vicious backlash. I think it's the natural progression of is collectively having a greater understanding of sexual and gender identity - there'll be more people who decide they fit into the "plus" of LGBTQ+.

@wowlover16

2 жыл бұрын

Did this not already happen 7 years ago?

@KatieBadenhorst

2 жыл бұрын

@@wowlover16 Maybe? But I think your only really seeing more nb's in media now, and this will only further influence the kids coming up nowq. It seems like the natural progression people learning 1. Gay us a thing (sexual identity). 2. Transgender is a thing (gender identity). 3. Non-binary is a thing (gender is a spectrum). I would further also predict more ace rep in the future, as well as more polyamory / relationship anarchy, probably further down the line. This is just my own theories though as well as my hope that we can evolve as a society.

@chronotope-perfume

2 жыл бұрын

Yea this already happened, and lately we’ve been up to our chests in backlash. Ref: Florida’s Don’t Say Gay bill, highkey noxious TERFy bullshit on both sides of the Atlantic, recent reporting on monkeypox that’s positioning it like the AIDS scare was 40 years ago, gobs more.

@ahhh4117

2 жыл бұрын

@@KatieBadenhorst Your comment brought back so many memories for me, I identified as asexual and genderfluid (now I'm very comfortably an asexual transman) in like 2015 and it was NOT well-received. A majority of lgbt people were barely tolerant of micro-labels but it wasn't embraced or celebrated. But boy was the aphobia and anti-NB sentiments loud and clear. Belittled everywhere. Even today I downplay my asexuality out of habit and fear of rejection. I operate under very ambiguous "bi" Like its very cool that non-binary is being so socially accepted now compared to back then and this is what at least the beginning of acceptance looks like

@KatieBadenhorst

2 жыл бұрын

@@ahhh4117 I hope you find more love and acceptance now. For me the environment I grew up in didn't seem very explicitly homophobic, but somehow I knew that gay = bad. I remember when I came out to my "liberal" parents as bi I had no idea how they'd react (luckily it was ok), I had zero memory of them ever mentioning anything to do LGBT ever! So I think we've still got a long way to go. I hope the generation growing up will be more accepting to all the different colours of our rainbow 🌈🌈🌈

I had completely forgotten about the Gollum thing! And I haven't thought about 90% of this other stuff in ages! Thanks for the throwback!

Gerard legit said he kissed dudes on stage at rock and metal shows to piss off homophobes and show them that my Chem’s music wasn’t for them. He spoke out very frequently about homophobia and misogyny in the scene. I don’t think it’s fair to lump them together with some of the other artists you mention in this video.

As a bi male who was an emo teen in the 2000s I definitely feel all of this. I think something can be said for a kind of “bisexual coming-out” burnout too, like I’ve recently come to the realization finding out a celebrity I like is queer, or even specifically, bisexual, I don’t really feel anything anymore because I’ve developed a kind of defense mechanism where I try to not tie any positive emotions to it because I expect them to walk it back later.

@hopekeeley2122

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I’ve developed that too it’s sad

@TigerPrawn_

7 ай бұрын

Bisexual coming-out burnout. OMG love it

The 2000's may have been one of the most vocally homophobic decades since the trial of Oscar Wilde. Like, homophobia's always been some level of there, but people just never talked about it. Not great, but at least you can live like a rat in the walls or in a shack in the woods. The 90s started actually showing gay and lesbian characters in sitcoms. Was it good, well rounded representation? No. Not close. But at least it wasn't out and out suppression, right? Post 9/11 made wearing jeans that fit properly enough to brand you as gay and a reason to get your ass kicked. Have a nasally voice? Better do your best Elizabeth Holmes impression so you don't get your teeth broken in. Tell another kid they're dumb? Stern talking to. Tell them to take a chill pill? Detention for promoting drug use. Get called the f slur? Eh. Watch your language. Just a wild time to be alive.

@padawansound6423

2 жыл бұрын

100% this. I've always thought that the early 00s felt oddly regressive when compared to the eras that immediately followed and preceded it. I once read a theory about how post-occupation trauma in France caused a resurgence in hyper masculinity and conservative ideals around gender/sexuality, and I truly believe the same thing happened in much of the West, but particularly the US and UK, post-9/11. The media landscape throughout that time period was absolutely wild.

@LunarWind99

2 жыл бұрын

@@padawansound6423 Yeah, I found the hyper masculinity very weird and honestly sorta creepy lol

@artemiswolf4508

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that’s usually how the cycle goes. LGBT people start getting more representation and positive attention, at first the general public’s reaction is indifference or even passive support, then LGBT groups start using that attention to actually ask for basic human rights and everyone loses their sh-t. Suddenly gays go from “quirky characters that can do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes” to “EXISTENTIAL THREATS TO THE VERY FABRIC OF SOCIETY”. We’re starting to see the beginning of a new backlash in all the latest anti trans laws. A lot of people think that because gay marriage was legalized our place in society is secure, but mark my words, once conservatives discover they can get away with screwing over trans people they’ll come for the rest of the letters in no time.

@averyhughes2478

2 жыл бұрын

I had so many wild discussions with my parents about this… they saw the bi chic celebrities, they saw the Madonna and Britney kiss. Meanwhile, actually growing up as a queer teen, I saw ‘that’s gay’ as the most common insult, the unironic use of ‘no homo’, so it was still incredibly clear that queer = not okay, even without slurs. Also like… folks didn’t use the f slur at my school because they knew they would get in trouble, but I was called a dyke for years and no one seemed to care, and I still heard ‘pansy’ and ‘sissy’ plenty.

@actualgoblin

2 жыл бұрын

I remember kids who said homophobic shit at school (myself included, whoops) would get scolded not for being homophobic, but for inadvertently introducing the concept of being gay to fellow classmates. It was like, "you're not supposed to talk about stuff like that". Saying the word "gay" in a completely inoffensive context was no less inappropriate than saying the F slur.

love the video!! I'm just going to "uhm actually!" a tiny detail: Girls/Girls/Boys was mostly, if not fully written by Dallon Weekes as a love song about him and his pan wife, and then reinterpreted by Brendon to be this "barsexual girls" song.