What should you do if a score for a piece you want isn't available?
@OrchestrationOnlineКүн бұрын
I would say - if you've trained enough in the repertoire with most public domain scores, that gives you enough of a basis to identify what's being done with a more contemporary concert or film score - but not always. Even at that, thanks to Omni and Chris Siddall, there are many film scores to choose from for study that may use techniques or architecture in scores you can't get.
@itznoxy7193Күн бұрын
1:33 does the a4 include tuba? I thought shore only used 3 bones in LOTR
@cool_inklingКүн бұрын
i play violin lol, to be honest, i don't really count. i sort of just. freestyle and play whatever sounds right unless im playing a piece, the hardest grade of music i've read and performed in school though is grade 5, it was the 4th moevtn of dvoraks 8th symphony and i was 4th chair 2nd violin
@Noblankit2 күн бұрын
Can you release the first couple you have done,and maybe that will make more people want to sub once they see the quality of it. Especially along with these tips you’ve been posting
@OrchestrationOnline2 күн бұрын
Great minds think alike! I've already released song 3, "Veris leta facies" as full-length video lecture - and I'll releasing another full-length preview chapter by next weekend.
@Noblankit2 күн бұрын
Which song? Pls do Omnia Sol Temperature
@OrchestrationOnlineКүн бұрын
@@Noblankit All in good time. My previews have to be shorter movements, I don't want to give too much away until the series drops. But I'll probably drop three previews in total before then.
@SirWhiteRabbit-gr5so3 күн бұрын
What does "on-time" mean? [/sarc]
@OrchestrationOnline3 күн бұрын
For me, usually a week or two before the deadline because I'm already onto something else by then.
@alonsoordonez64073 күн бұрын
Was he a guitar player?
@OrchestrationOnline3 күн бұрын
Apparently it was the only instrument with which he had any real facility - according to some sources.
@bjazz684 күн бұрын
Thank you.
@eyvindjr4 күн бұрын
Wonderful video about some of the potential of the trombone! I would like to add that as the dynamics increase, the higher overtones of the instrument also increase. This also makes it possible to use the less overtone-rich soft dynamics of the trombone in ways which do not cover up other instruments, including singers. Wagner was an expert at this, and we certainly embrace that role just as much as heroic fortissimos!
@rsaettone5 күн бұрын
Possibly my favorite symphony of all time, so glad to see this oboe part getting some love!
@vacuumlover17 күн бұрын
As a auxiliary clarinet player primarily playing bass clarinet, THANK YOU. I’m playing bassoon parts for Harold in Italy and I’m dying over here
@OrchestrationOnline7 күн бұрын
So glad I could help!
@AndewMole7 күн бұрын
i've seen prokofiev use this scoring too! what do you think of replacing contrabassoon with contrabass clarinet (e.g. in a band setting) would it have the sane effect?
@OrchestrationOnline7 күн бұрын
For that, you can look no further than early Hitchcock and Twilight Zone episodes, before the low Bb bass clarinet models started replacing the EEb contra-altos. There are several instances, such as the last chord of the original TZ theme scored by Herrmann. The problem here is the extreme unctuousness and overtones from the octave combination, always so crisp and cutting. So the rich, undefinable weight we see here with contra would become more clear and urgent. That would probably not work here.
@SirWhiteRabbit-gr5so8 күн бұрын
As a former clarinetist, that's down-right terrifying.
@BernardGreenberg8 күн бұрын
While the piano may have been invented in the Baroque era, it was not used in classical music until the "Classica"l era (of Mozart and Haydn), and pianos with sustain pedals not until the nineteenth century.
@OrchestrationOnline8 күн бұрын
Of course - now how am I going to fit all those details into a 60-second video? 🙂 But to look at the literature, it starts with CPE Bach and his contemporaries, so I would call that the Rococo Era, well before Haydn and Mozart. There was a fortepiano at the court of Frederick the Great, which JS Bach tried out and didn't care for too much. Around the same time, Scarlatti's royal pupil Queen Maria Barbara appears to have acquired two fortepianos (probably to accompany Farinelli) - but they were both refitted back into being harpsichords! So definitely the instruments were being used and written for from the late Baroque era onwards.
@BernardGreenberg8 күн бұрын
@@OrchestrationOnline "Pianos were not really used or written for until the Rococo Era". All that aside, your little vids on large-scale orchestration are pretty fascinating and well-done!
@whoddoncarlsson9 күн бұрын
Ehat about veni veni venias?
@OrchestrationOnline9 күн бұрын
In that piece, the pianos are mostly just supporting the choir, so they're still not soloist instruments. When they don't support, they're back to playing patterns and bass rhythm parts.
@immrpadz19 күн бұрын
is there a similar effect when doubling baritone or bass saxophone on top of contrabassoon
@OrchestrationOnline9 күн бұрын
Not at all - those combinations would be closer to bassoon over contra. This bass clarinet's unique tone is in its lack of even-numbered partials. Baritone, bass sax, and bassoon all have the full spectrum of partials in their overtones.
@katbullar10 күн бұрын
Fantastic! I am loving your analyses!
@OrchestrationOnline10 күн бұрын
Thanks again, Kat!
@Mazurking6 күн бұрын
I kind of see why this matters, but at the end of the day, 1,2,3 or 4 are just numbers. Who cares who gets which number? Is there something I'm missing?
@OrchestrationOnline5 күн бұрын
@@Mazurking There's a lot to it in concert horn scoring. You might also ask, "If I ignore all that and just have any player play any part, will it still sound good?" And the answer might very well be that you're missing some great chances to make your horns sound better.
@OrchestrationOnline5 күн бұрын
@@Mazurking I recommend going to the orchestration online dot com site and just reading my articles on horns. That will catch you up immediately.
@Mazurking5 күн бұрын
@@OrchestrationOnline Thank you!
@Veragisasillygal11 күн бұрын
hehehe they named an instrument after me
@TomerBarNiv11 күн бұрын
In the Bolero example, when the melody descends into the low register, the 4th horn is joining in with the 2nd flute and cor englis to continue the "brassier" sound of the trumpet
@OrchestrationOnline11 күн бұрын
Erratum: The title card should read "VIb" rather than "Vb."
@ericajade260111 күн бұрын
One thing that's always struck me about Carmina Burana is how organ-like a lot of the textures are. I feel those scoring choices contribute to the impression of antiquity.
@OrchestrationOnline11 күн бұрын
True, some definitely are, especially in the earlier Gregorian chant-like songs.
@MrDellDude11 күн бұрын
Would you consider the fact that the contrabassoon and bass clarinet are written at different dynamics an important detail? Or would you expect the players to balance in a similar way even if both were marked p or pp?
@OrchestrationOnline11 күн бұрын
It is an essential detail in terms of balance for the way the passage is scored, but not quite enough time in this format to cover. I will deal with this in a video tip soon I hope.
@jonhalvorlund7 күн бұрын
The players would always try to balance - it would be up to the conductor to "re-balance" when dynamics are different between instruments, since the players will normally not know, and assume they are the same. I have played this on contrabassoon many times, and had no idea until now that it has a different dynamic from the bass clarinet!
@wellthatwasfun11 күн бұрын
Orff was a rock star. Just listen to the whole Carmina Burana (not just Oh Fortuna but the other pieces). You can easily adapt drums and elec guitars and you get prog rock from the 70s.
@that_oneguy_yt632912 күн бұрын
I love that you’re covering this piece, I’ve always enjoyed its orchestration! Out of curiosity, what do you think of the orchestration of Orff’s later orchestral-choral works (i.e. Catulli Carmina, Trionfo di Aphrodite)?
@OrchestrationOnline12 күн бұрын
Well...Catulli Carmina is of course a piano/percussion ensemble, while Afrodite is a much more toned-down work, with more subtle textures. I'll be doing a short piece on this for the Pock Guide at the end.
@bpe-music12 күн бұрын
I hope you'll make a compilation when the series is over :-)
@JimCullen12 күн бұрын
As a clarinetist used to transposing C parts on site, this tip might also work in reverse. Being able to read Bb parts helps understand what's going on in tenor clef!
@Raffael-Tausend12 күн бұрын
Especially helpful when you play bassoon, trombone or violoncello.
@Darkserpentes12 күн бұрын
Will you be getting into Orff's vocal writing in your guide?
@OrchestrationOnline12 күн бұрын
A lot of that will be in the regular series, but it's a great suggestion for the shorts as well! Thanks!
@antoniapricop13 күн бұрын
thank you for sharing! this knowledge is very important!
@Noblankit13 күн бұрын
Try to get the WDR 2022 preformance for the audio,it’s my favorite recording of it,I think you’ve used some clips of it in videos already
@bpe-music13 күн бұрын
It's often hard enough to just have one piano in the orchestra, let alone two ^^
@katbullar13 күн бұрын
Fantastic analysis! Many hugs from Germany.
@OrchestrationOnline13 күн бұрын
Freut mich, Kat! Warm greetings from New Zealand! 🙂
@armandoe.ramirez9414 күн бұрын
Hi! I've just watched this video. Is the special price still going on? I mean the combo of your two books. Thanks!
@OrchestrationOnline13 күн бұрын
Hi Armandoe! Sorry, this is a very old announcement. I should have unlisted it after the sale. But I might do another sale soon. Subscribe to the website, and I'll announce it in an email.
@armandoe.ramirez9413 күн бұрын
@@OrchestrationOnline sure!! Thanks. Have a nive day.
@mountchoco817414 күн бұрын
Question- I’m reading through henry brant’s orchestrators handbook and have been reading through other textbooks and Im confused about what it means for a chord to be perfectly balanced. Should there be the same number of pitches amongst instruments, or is it dependent on each instrument + dynamics, or some combination thereof? I love watching your videos, thank you for the educational resources you provide to us students 😁
@madrigal195614 күн бұрын
I would think that Les Noces has been a still greater influence (to the point of quasi-plagiarism)
@OrchestrationOnline14 күн бұрын
You have to watch the previous video, where I do indeed discuss Les Notes as being the most influential work - in as much detail as I can fit in 59 seconds.
@madrigal195613 күн бұрын
@@OrchestrationOnline indeed, I had not seen it! Thank you
@katbullar14 күн бұрын
I am loving your videos!
@ZacPB18915 күн бұрын
It's worth mentioning "Cartulli Carmina", Orff's sequel to "Carmina Burana", is scored for voices with 4 pianos and percussion ensemble.
@OrchestrationOnline15 күн бұрын
That will come up at the end of this series of shorts, when I discuss his two sequels.
@nickbowd15 күн бұрын
4 pianos!
@yindewei16 күн бұрын
10:50 to 11:15 - The concert-pitch notes for the E-flat horn shown on the right-half of the screen should be one octave lower. In the old-notation bass clef the notes sound a minor-third higher than written (not a minor-tenth), and in the treble clef (and in the modern-notation bass clef, not shown in the video here) the notes sound a major-sixth lower than written (not a minor-third higher).
@adamtullymusic19 күн бұрын
I hope you reach 77k soon. I'd love to see this series.
@wobblyorbee27919 күн бұрын
13:56 im guilty of this but i know im just wrong because i understand that instruments are different to play, but at the same time im like "ah f*** it, they can do it, not like theres a big difference," bcs i dont even know the basics of playing a harp just like probably a guitarist trying to compose a music for violin that they have ZERO knowledge of the violin basics sorry harpists haha
@jankapi-zq9nn20 күн бұрын
Thank you so much for this lesson! I hate Carmina Burana with a burning passion, but there is absolutely a lot to learn from it.
@RandomMusicProduction20 күн бұрын
Thank you for the lesson 🙏
@NidusFormicarum21 күн бұрын
The fifth aobve middle C sticks out a bit to me, but that must be because a trumpet is doubled by a horn.
@TrolsakRovaloj22 күн бұрын
Is there a video for the original recording?
@OrchestrationOnline22 күн бұрын
Just do a KZread search on "The Christmas Night Rimsky-Korsakov" and at least one version will pop up.
@victormunroe241822 күн бұрын
Ecce Gratum may not take its melody from the Medieval song, but it did take its melody from Shave and a Haircut
@maxjackson393524 күн бұрын
yes we can?
@OrchestrationOnline24 күн бұрын
Missing the context, my guy. This note is in the middle of a 2-3-hour opera that's a big blow for the trumpets. He's doing it so as not to have you crack up there.
Пікірлер
Hi thanks for your video
Glad you liked it!
What should you do if a score for a piece you want isn't available?
I would say - if you've trained enough in the repertoire with most public domain scores, that gives you enough of a basis to identify what's being done with a more contemporary concert or film score - but not always. Even at that, thanks to Omni and Chris Siddall, there are many film scores to choose from for study that may use techniques or architecture in scores you can't get.
1:33 does the a4 include tuba? I thought shore only used 3 bones in LOTR
i play violin lol, to be honest, i don't really count. i sort of just. freestyle and play whatever sounds right unless im playing a piece, the hardest grade of music i've read and performed in school though is grade 5, it was the 4th moevtn of dvoraks 8th symphony and i was 4th chair 2nd violin
Can you release the first couple you have done,and maybe that will make more people want to sub once they see the quality of it. Especially along with these tips you’ve been posting
Great minds think alike! I've already released song 3, "Veris leta facies" as full-length video lecture - and I'll releasing another full-length preview chapter by next weekend.
Which song? Pls do Omnia Sol Temperature
@@Noblankit All in good time. My previews have to be shorter movements, I don't want to give too much away until the series drops. But I'll probably drop three previews in total before then.
What does "on-time" mean? [/sarc]
For me, usually a week or two before the deadline because I'm already onto something else by then.
Was he a guitar player?
Apparently it was the only instrument with which he had any real facility - according to some sources.
Thank you.
Wonderful video about some of the potential of the trombone! I would like to add that as the dynamics increase, the higher overtones of the instrument also increase. This also makes it possible to use the less overtone-rich soft dynamics of the trombone in ways which do not cover up other instruments, including singers. Wagner was an expert at this, and we certainly embrace that role just as much as heroic fortissimos!
Possibly my favorite symphony of all time, so glad to see this oboe part getting some love!
As a auxiliary clarinet player primarily playing bass clarinet, THANK YOU. I’m playing bassoon parts for Harold in Italy and I’m dying over here
So glad I could help!
i've seen prokofiev use this scoring too! what do you think of replacing contrabassoon with contrabass clarinet (e.g. in a band setting) would it have the sane effect?
For that, you can look no further than early Hitchcock and Twilight Zone episodes, before the low Bb bass clarinet models started replacing the EEb contra-altos. There are several instances, such as the last chord of the original TZ theme scored by Herrmann. The problem here is the extreme unctuousness and overtones from the octave combination, always so crisp and cutting. So the rich, undefinable weight we see here with contra would become more clear and urgent. That would probably not work here.
As a former clarinetist, that's down-right terrifying.
While the piano may have been invented in the Baroque era, it was not used in classical music until the "Classica"l era (of Mozart and Haydn), and pianos with sustain pedals not until the nineteenth century.
Of course - now how am I going to fit all those details into a 60-second video? 🙂 But to look at the literature, it starts with CPE Bach and his contemporaries, so I would call that the Rococo Era, well before Haydn and Mozart. There was a fortepiano at the court of Frederick the Great, which JS Bach tried out and didn't care for too much. Around the same time, Scarlatti's royal pupil Queen Maria Barbara appears to have acquired two fortepianos (probably to accompany Farinelli) - but they were both refitted back into being harpsichords! So definitely the instruments were being used and written for from the late Baroque era onwards.
@@OrchestrationOnline "Pianos were not really used or written for until the Rococo Era". All that aside, your little vids on large-scale orchestration are pretty fascinating and well-done!
Ehat about veni veni venias?
In that piece, the pianos are mostly just supporting the choir, so they're still not soloist instruments. When they don't support, they're back to playing patterns and bass rhythm parts.
is there a similar effect when doubling baritone or bass saxophone on top of contrabassoon
Not at all - those combinations would be closer to bassoon over contra. This bass clarinet's unique tone is in its lack of even-numbered partials. Baritone, bass sax, and bassoon all have the full spectrum of partials in their overtones.
Fantastic! I am loving your analyses!
Thanks again, Kat!
I kind of see why this matters, but at the end of the day, 1,2,3 or 4 are just numbers. Who cares who gets which number? Is there something I'm missing?
@@Mazurking There's a lot to it in concert horn scoring. You might also ask, "If I ignore all that and just have any player play any part, will it still sound good?" And the answer might very well be that you're missing some great chances to make your horns sound better.
@@Mazurking I recommend going to the orchestration online dot com site and just reading my articles on horns. That will catch you up immediately.
@@OrchestrationOnline Thank you!
hehehe they named an instrument after me
In the Bolero example, when the melody descends into the low register, the 4th horn is joining in with the 2nd flute and cor englis to continue the "brassier" sound of the trumpet
Erratum: The title card should read "VIb" rather than "Vb."
One thing that's always struck me about Carmina Burana is how organ-like a lot of the textures are. I feel those scoring choices contribute to the impression of antiquity.
True, some definitely are, especially in the earlier Gregorian chant-like songs.
Would you consider the fact that the contrabassoon and bass clarinet are written at different dynamics an important detail? Or would you expect the players to balance in a similar way even if both were marked p or pp?
It is an essential detail in terms of balance for the way the passage is scored, but not quite enough time in this format to cover. I will deal with this in a video tip soon I hope.
The players would always try to balance - it would be up to the conductor to "re-balance" when dynamics are different between instruments, since the players will normally not know, and assume they are the same. I have played this on contrabassoon many times, and had no idea until now that it has a different dynamic from the bass clarinet!
Orff was a rock star. Just listen to the whole Carmina Burana (not just Oh Fortuna but the other pieces). You can easily adapt drums and elec guitars and you get prog rock from the 70s.
I love that you’re covering this piece, I’ve always enjoyed its orchestration! Out of curiosity, what do you think of the orchestration of Orff’s later orchestral-choral works (i.e. Catulli Carmina, Trionfo di Aphrodite)?
Well...Catulli Carmina is of course a piano/percussion ensemble, while Afrodite is a much more toned-down work, with more subtle textures. I'll be doing a short piece on this for the Pock Guide at the end.
I hope you'll make a compilation when the series is over :-)
As a clarinetist used to transposing C parts on site, this tip might also work in reverse. Being able to read Bb parts helps understand what's going on in tenor clef!
Especially helpful when you play bassoon, trombone or violoncello.
Will you be getting into Orff's vocal writing in your guide?
A lot of that will be in the regular series, but it's a great suggestion for the shorts as well! Thanks!
thank you for sharing! this knowledge is very important!
Try to get the WDR 2022 preformance for the audio,it’s my favorite recording of it,I think you’ve used some clips of it in videos already
It's often hard enough to just have one piano in the orchestra, let alone two ^^
Fantastic analysis! Many hugs from Germany.
Freut mich, Kat! Warm greetings from New Zealand! 🙂
Hi! I've just watched this video. Is the special price still going on? I mean the combo of your two books. Thanks!
Hi Armandoe! Sorry, this is a very old announcement. I should have unlisted it after the sale. But I might do another sale soon. Subscribe to the website, and I'll announce it in an email.
@@OrchestrationOnline sure!! Thanks. Have a nive day.
Question- I’m reading through henry brant’s orchestrators handbook and have been reading through other textbooks and Im confused about what it means for a chord to be perfectly balanced. Should there be the same number of pitches amongst instruments, or is it dependent on each instrument + dynamics, or some combination thereof? I love watching your videos, thank you for the educational resources you provide to us students 😁
I would think that Les Noces has been a still greater influence (to the point of quasi-plagiarism)
You have to watch the previous video, where I do indeed discuss Les Notes as being the most influential work - in as much detail as I can fit in 59 seconds.
@@OrchestrationOnline indeed, I had not seen it! Thank you
I am loving your videos!
It's worth mentioning "Cartulli Carmina", Orff's sequel to "Carmina Burana", is scored for voices with 4 pianos and percussion ensemble.
That will come up at the end of this series of shorts, when I discuss his two sequels.
4 pianos!
10:50 to 11:15 - The concert-pitch notes for the E-flat horn shown on the right-half of the screen should be one octave lower. In the old-notation bass clef the notes sound a minor-third higher than written (not a minor-tenth), and in the treble clef (and in the modern-notation bass clef, not shown in the video here) the notes sound a major-sixth lower than written (not a minor-third higher).
I hope you reach 77k soon. I'd love to see this series.
13:56 im guilty of this but i know im just wrong because i understand that instruments are different to play, but at the same time im like "ah f*** it, they can do it, not like theres a big difference," bcs i dont even know the basics of playing a harp just like probably a guitarist trying to compose a music for violin that they have ZERO knowledge of the violin basics sorry harpists haha
Thank you so much for this lesson! I hate Carmina Burana with a burning passion, but there is absolutely a lot to learn from it.
Thank you for the lesson 🙏
The fifth aobve middle C sticks out a bit to me, but that must be because a trumpet is doubled by a horn.
Is there a video for the original recording?
Just do a KZread search on "The Christmas Night Rimsky-Korsakov" and at least one version will pop up.
Ecce Gratum may not take its melody from the Medieval song, but it did take its melody from Shave and a Haircut
yes we can?
Missing the context, my guy. This note is in the middle of a 2-3-hour opera that's a big blow for the trumpets. He's doing it so as not to have you crack up there.
@@OrchestrationOnline ohhh mb
@@maxjackson3935 No probs
👏