Looking forward to hearing this. I'm sick and tired of kind of crap that Michael Horton and his ilk put out.

@Christian-vq8rd

5 ай бұрын

100%

RE: Tim Keller's influence (comments starting at 19:04), the pastor at my former church (during the 2020 election lead-up days) would constantly talk about this elusive "Third Way". But he would never take the time to explain this to the church. What does "third way" really mean? The first question I had was this: Do Christians really get a viable and substantial "third choice" when it comes to political candidates and parties, especially at the top tiers of politics? No, we do not. We get Democrats and Republicans (and the occasional Independent). Any 2nd-tier party vote, like it or not, is a throw-away vote in America. So, to me, Keller's Third Way was immediately revealed to be a farce and nothing more than an attempt to move the church in America to the left. You only really get 2 options for your Congressman, Senator or President: Evil (but mostly reasonable) Republicans or super-duper evil Democrats Hell-bent on destroying Western Civilization and anyone claiming to follow Christ (legitimately, that is). Pretty easy choice, really.

@conceptualclarity

5 ай бұрын

Tim Keller was disingenuous his real goal was to suppress evangelical votes for the Republican party this was what was behind his Third Way nonsense and this was especially what was behind his talk about giving up power and the terribleness of having and wielding power and how unchristian it was to wield power what he was trying to do was to Guilt Trip Christian conservatives out of business

@tjkhan4541

4 ай бұрын

In my understanding, Keller’s Third Way idea was trying to say, “party A and party B say different things on a spectrum, but Jesus would say Z, which is not on that spectrum but is on a completely different plane. So don’t identify A or B with Jesus’s view.” (I think in practice he failed to really live this out. At least in a clear way.)

@heathcarpenter4490

Ай бұрын

@@tjkhan4541 In advocating for a third way, he made acceptable the second way (voting Democrat).

You need to recognize that the R2K is based on a different covenant theology. In place of the two covenant Reformed system (Covenant of Works, Covenant of Grace) there is now a third Common Covenant. As Cornelius Van Til explicitly taught, this Common Covenant is a "limiting notion" that limits the scope of the Covenant of Grace. It creates an area of administration outside of God's redemptive program. Abraham Kuyper invented this separate Covenant administration to safeguard the importance of culture. Meredith Kline, developing Van Til's idea, inverted this to sideline culture as only a temporary necessity until God's real purpose under the Covenant of Grace is achieved. Secondly, contrary to what the R2K people would have us think, there were multiple theories of Natural Law coming out of the Middle Ages, and the R2K is an extreme version of the Thomist immanent idea of natural law. Ockham, in contrast, thought that the whole of natural law could be found in the Biblical commandments.

If you believe that the civil magistrate should govern according to God’s law…you might be a theonomist.

@philiplitton6633

5 ай бұрын

What's wrong with God's Law - Theonomy?

@andinorth1507

4 ай бұрын

And a good biblicist

36:59 seems like VanDrunens view would not allow for the law to be a tutor

1:00:00 mark and onward.....the question I have for the R2K people is this: were our forefathers, such as George Washington, wrong to pray in Jesus' name and quote Scripture verses and apply them to our nation? Was John Jay, our first U.S. Supreme Court chief justice, wrong to go through God's law and to study how the principals there would have a general equity application to the new nation in his rulings? More recently, were local communities wrong to enforce Sabbath laws? Same with states and pornography or divorce laws.....were our forefathers in sin by holding to these things? How, as a reformed Christian, can you possibly make that case, I wonder?

From my understanding, Renihan's 1689 commentary quotes a PB who believed in a third category of law called positive-moral, and that God through the scriptures bind all people to 1 in 7 days of rest as a "positive" holy day command (as opposed to a command from moral law that is more intrinsic in nature), but the specific day is only prescribed for members of the new covenant or members of the Mosaic. IMO if this were the correct interpretation this would be the justification for a law mandating employers to give employees the opportunity of 1 in 7 days off

R2K - "Refinement Two-Kingdom" Another one! 😃

Notes: 29:43 31:21 Please edit those out very loud gassers so we can all be serious.

@tjkhan4541

4 ай бұрын

Hahahaha

R2K theology? What is that?

christians should vote?🤔

If we attempt to "Christianize" society by civil law, we abandon the power of the Holy Spirit to persuade & replace that power with Political Power. This to me is literally "A form of Godliness, lacking the power thereof.