All the videos I mentioned in this chat but KZread only lets me link to a few: Collab with Arthur on his channel: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hIVsyrmvYc3bp5M.html&ab_channel=Mr.Bones40k (you can just skip to my bit if you want) Kroot and the best Tau detachment for you: kzread.info/dash/bejne/Y39omc2gadPeprA.htmlsi=UBux_R1LJ6KnQrkZ Genestealer cult meta: kzread.info/dash/bejne/o2d1m9Kdj63Fps4.htmlsi=ukYKPRNE3zo92Xde Genestealer Cult Magus (how to turn off a titan) kzread.info/dash/bejne/pXaItpWyZdu7lKg.htmlsi=A1zAM-YNofkzZyAB Have fun against Genestealer Cult: kzread.info/dash/bejne/p3dmlsOnedDVp5s.htmlsi=80SHuERGaRHkDFSe Proxyhammer chat 1: kzread.info/dash/bejne/jIao28ycZcrJibQ.html&ab_channel=40kVtuber%3AChristianVonCarmian Proxyhammer chat 2: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hXWVsdZud6rMoc4.html&ab_channel=40kVtuber%3AChristianVonCarmian My Imperial Fists vs 9th edition Votann: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nIqt16dyk9PSmKw.htmlsi=-LaPZWaU1TlgS_79 Sisters meta lists: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ep521a5sd5ydotY.htmlsi=lnzRZV86yX8YCfW5 Homebrew Celestians rules: kzread.info/dash/bejne/pn6G1qqqgtHZdag.htmlsi=f6HQ4kVoOnI-AxBM The 6 worst kinds of gamers: kzread.info/dash/bejne/n4KlqdGAprPgiaw.htmlsi=xO2g6YtYAd6la-ru How to Win with Deathguard: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fpOHxpZ_e6W1lJM.htmlsi=V2LnHXbDsxLRQWD3 How to Improve 40k: kzread.info/dash/bejne/o4Z-msyfparKkrQ.htmlsi=fsNtmjd1Kgc_c5Sf Skysplinter assault Dark Eldar/Drukhari detachment analysed: kzread.info/dash/bejne/l4yO1tGOk7y2j7w.htmlsi=Bdl7ETApdt4-xTsm and if you have looked at all of them, be sure to have subscribed: www.youtube.com/@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber/?sub_confirmation=1

@MartynStanleyAuthor

2 ай бұрын

Interesting conversation, I think you're right, it's hard not to be influenced at SOME level by the meta. If you think a unit is really cool, but it gets shot off the table first turn for 17 games in a row, then it probably starts to become 'less' cool. I have a squad of Sniper Scouts. I Made them from my old Advanced Space Marine Scouts. Will I stop playing them? I don't know. If I ever go to a GT then I'll maybe magnetize them to be either somehow. Currently there are a Sergeant, 8 Snipers and a Rocket Launcher guy. I think the new normal scout squad is 1 heavy weapon and one sniper rifle for every 5. So if I was prepared to magnetise the Sergent to Swap his Rifle for a Boltgun, paint up a spare Heavy Bolter guy I think I have knockning about? Then magnetize 5 of my snipers so they can have Boltguns I could run them either as they are in a [LEGENDS] squad or as this:- • 5x Scouts w/ Boltgun: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Close Combat Weapon • 1x Scout Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Boltgun • 1x Scout w/ Heavy Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Heavy Bolter • 1x Scout w/ Heavy Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Missile Launcher • 2x Scout w/ Scout Sniper Rifle: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Scout Sniper Rifle They wouldn't quite serve the same purpose but I think they'd have a modicum of playability. I also have 5 Wolfscouts with Shotguns and a Heavy Bolter and I think the Sergeant has a Power Sword? Sometimes a little bit of Magnetization can go a long way.

You made a really good point about local meta. I remember two people talking about Street Fighter, and how one of them was amazed at how well Cammy does in the overall international scene, and how nobody blocks and punishes her dive kick. "I think it's because our small group basically trains us against each other, so everyone who faces you every week knows how to counter that kick, and everyone who faces me knows they CAN rely on me walking forward with Zangief every single time, but a thousand guys in America and Japan won't know that."

I even see this "competitive baseline" in Crusade. We started a 2 month crusade game at my local shop and there was so much *screaching mechanicum noises* about exp and relics

@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber

2 ай бұрын

it is so hard not to just go for the most powerful thing and pick something fluffy that is not so good

@thomaswilloughby2951

2 ай бұрын

@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber That's why we make sure that everyone rolls randomly. When *nobody* picks, it's not as imbalanced and, honestly? Crusade is my favorite way to play. Taking a small force, gradually expanding it while crafting stories? Building up grudges as characters that you name yourself, have them face down other people several times, and take notes about the games? That's *fantastic*. "Ahhh, we meet again, "Sword Champion." You have earned the right to tell me your name, so that I might remember your death properly." "Xenos scum! You took my arm but not my heart.... today, I shall return the favor!" "The term is Crown Prince, first in line of my Phaeron's forces. I would say that it would do you well to remember that, but in death, what matter memories, hmm?" "No quarter asked, none given." "Agreed!" Meanwhile, at the table, "Dude, Overlord vs Emperor's Champion? Why don't you just kill the unit around him?" "Because it's personal with these two. You *gotta* duel, man." "Three Quatalos on the Champion!" "No bets. Wak's Overlord can't hit nothin." "Hey!" *proceeds to roll 1 hit and 2 misses. The one hit is nullified by the EC's parry." "Told you!"

I learn the meta and go exactly opposite.

@Tavenknaughtlin1

2 ай бұрын

That's the way to do it. Went to a tournament where the meta was tons of heavy armor. So every list was packed with anti-armor weapons. Brought an all-infantry Ork list, and laughed as those d6 damage lascannon shots killed singular boyz. It was especially hilarious the two times my opponents drew Bring it Down 😂.

@ethanm1696

2 ай бұрын

I’m making an air guard army imma fuckin suffer

@Adalon-

2 ай бұрын

Entirely valid and a play style i enjoy as well. Anti-meta is always enjoyable

Don't forget the Henry Cavill effect and the literal golden parachute GW gives the custodes boxes and patrols. (Or any 4 figs kill team)

@RagnellAvalon

2 ай бұрын

I was just having a laugh the other night about how 'coincidentally' Custodes had really good rules at 10th launch

Two of my favourite 40K youtubers, and they "just" talk for over an hour so I can happily build and paint along? OH HELL YUSS! Thank you so much, my evening is saved.

@alexandrudorries3307

2 ай бұрын

Truly a ray of light in a dark world.

Me emphatically nodding along. My basic method of army building thus far is just "Hey, I came up with a neat idea for army lore; what units best represent that lore/how do I convert stuff to make those units resemble that lore?" Nothing against people who prefer to play competitively of course! It's just not where my personal interest lies. I like carving out weird niches in these universe and making them mine through my armies and the weird twists I can put on the universe with them.

@johnj.spurgin7037

2 ай бұрын

I think there's nothing wrong with building competitively. Ultimately, it SHOULD lead to every faction being able to play a game against almost any other faction (with the caveat that some builds are naturally counters to other army builds) and that's GOOD. The PROBLEM is that INTERNAL faction balance isn't there yet. I get where Bonez is coming from, but as a guy who LOVES hombrew crunch and fluff where he sees homogenization "I" see an OPPORTUNITY. Bones is a narrative player and BLESS HIM for that. The issue is that he's only getting comp play when he needs people to play NARRATIVELY with. People who lean on fluff and crunch follows.

Hey, great to see Bones! Few points: 1) I think your point in the first half of the video about “10th edition feels all the same” is not a problem of all the rules having the same name, or rules being reused between armies (for example, a character giving Lethal Hits). The main problem is that we lost army-level rules customization at the same time the rules were condensed. To use CSM as an example: before, we had Let the Galaxy Burn (best rule name ever btw) and Marks of Chaos as the main army rules. You also had an entire set of universal strats and enhancements as well.Then, on the “detachment” level, you have additional rules, strats, and enhancements. In the shift from 9th to 10th, we lost an entire layer of customization because the only thing that applies on an “army level” is the one fucking army rule. 2) My response to someone bringing a legends unit is always “I’m not a cop, I don’t care.” Anyway, thanks for having Bones on, and great chat!

Yes! I'm doing 180+ Kroot with 2 Tiger Sharks and 3 Sky Rays. Very Auxiliary force thematic. Also the 10th ed Crusade has been really fun for casual games.

My only problem with a lot of the anti competitive argument is generally the people who yell loudest about net listing and whatnot will make a list that copies 75-90% of the tournament meta with 1 or 2 flavor choices then play that in casuals against whomever and then brag about how clever they are. So I would guess that what i would say is that insufferable people are insufferable regardless of where they come from.

@kennethbarrett2389

2 ай бұрын

Age of darkness, from my experience, doesnt usually have a meta because of its base statement. Its a narrative game and not tournament focused. Its hard not to meta game and play the meta when 40k is completely based around win at all costs and is entirely matched play or 90 percent at least. I tried my nightlords fluff in 40k and that went so poorly i switched systems. Casual players will do everything casual, including tournament play.

@christopherlarter4386

2 ай бұрын

@@kennethbarrett2389 I play to win every time i play regardless of what I put on the table and I celebrate my opponent's victories in the encounters and the overall game regardless of who wins. This seems to be more of an issue with "casuals" being poor sports about losing. Most competitive players accept the possibility of loss which is why we practice to do as well as possible. We aren't all children here. The cadence I have in an actual casual game is different but I still play to win because if my opponent isn't challenged they will just be bored.

@kennethbarrett2389

2 ай бұрын

@christopherlarter4386 I've lost near 60 percent or more of my games in heresy. The difference is my games last to turn 4, 5, or even 6. Any 40k game, especially when I did tournaments was at best turn 3 because of how the rules and game were intended. Playing to win is fine, its win at all costs where the real problem lies. Like I said casual players will play casual even in a competitive environment, including learning their rules and copy pasting tactics. It's an unfortunate statement but it is true. The big reason age of darkness is a better system for casuals, is the depth of narrative. I'm not limited in what I can do as much in 40k. Destroying terrains and buildings is a highlight of our usual game night as well as some come from behind victories. I guess my bigger problem with 40k as a whole is it has less charm and stratagems are a horrid thing. Gotcha moments are something that need to go away for the reaction system.

@christopherlarter4386

2 ай бұрын

@@kennethbarrett2389 i don't really have any interest in age of darkness so I'm not addressing those comments in any way, shape, or form. Define win at all costs. Because if you mean cheating i see more casuals cheating than competitive players because if you're ranked or actually trying to win a GT there are actual consequences to cheating that competitive players care about. What copy paste tactics are we referring to or is this some sort of made up rule where people have an ego where they believe only they are smart enough to play well?

@kennethbarrett2389

2 ай бұрын

@christopherlarter4386 win at all costs, models with lower than optimal value are put to the side, only extremely good choices can hit the table, never giving an opponent benefit of the doubt, and generally making the game more about the rules than having a good time and generally enjoying the game. Such as bringing a hyper competitive list to a normal game night, and practicing GT styles with casuals. As for copy paste tactics the most notorious are those using auspex tactics as gospel, to the point I've seen a play by play of his videos and combos as well as list building. It's actively encouraged in any environment that becomes a win at all costs type. More so when casual plays pretend their high level comp winners. I like tournament players, they have a space to play. It would likely be nice as well if all their players and styles didn't intermingle so much to the point most casual lists will be tabled by turn 2. Hobbytown makes good points as well for how 40k has become a none casual game with its constant rules changes but that's another matter entirely.

I would like to offer a token defense of "competitive" being an assumed default. If two players go in knowing that a given match is to be played competitively: that is an externally defined standard that both can reference and function from. It means you can smooth over points of contention and focus on play. A pickup game at the store can be initiated with minimal fuss. If two players go in wanting a casual game, it will require an earnest and honest exchange of what each wants out of the game. Across many games, I find that its a frequent point of contention to find where the bounds between casual and tryhard sit. Emotionally healthy people can work this out, and will have a good time, but it makes random pickup games more difficult to execute. GW should do more to promote the non-narrative non competitive forms of play that exist (they do a decent job offering scenarios and crusade play for narrative players in the current edition, could do more but the support is reasonable.) GW really needs to lay out that playing tournament style is a different thing from shuffling up your leviathan deck to play.

1- great youtube collab, like both of you guys (and as a sisters/gsc player, youre like my 1 stop shop for gameplay ideas lol). and really resonate the issues of trying to make a well rounded list at times as GSC (so many magi on shelf getting dusty) 2- As one of the old grogs who's played since 2nd ed, lived through such "fun" fluff such as jokero shutting down the entire tau army, stealth warhound titans, the wardian 5th ed codex era, taudar, detachments of 2k points for free, I see 10th as a reset in the same way 3rd was to 2nd. I stopped playing in 8th for a time because it took as long to find rules and check erratas than to play. 2nd ed was fun, but the amount of tokens on the board and counters and character sheets was too much and turned people off. 9th was the same for me and many; just too much stuff to keep up on. 10th largely stripped alot of the uniqueness but also the bloat I feel. Yeah its rough for people who enjoyed making their army unique, but its nice for a casual enjoyer to not have to read 6 pages of strategems, relics, rules, and units every time i face a marine player (also there is a special place in hell for every "my painted space wolves/darkangels are actually iron hands...today). The focus too on rule updates ensures no more wardian level stuff killing the game for years. People forget, but many including me jumped to other games precisely because as casuals we were done getting drubbed by 1 codex for years while our 1 codex may not even come in an edition. so while the current system may choke alot of creativity out, the only focus on fluff (we hobby company not rule company era) also killed creativity when some armies were so obsencely better or bad it was over. There data gathering has bias but it beats praying for an errata in a chapter approved. But I agree balance doesn't always equate fun. My fav GW game is the long ded battlefleet gothic (still alive thanks to xr and 3d printing). Super unbalanced game mode but so much fun. Sure necrons were beyond OP but still dice and positioning could win. And its fun playing age of sail in space. Style should come first. Thanks for the vid!

@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber

2 ай бұрын

I agree with so much of this! And BFG is a lot of fun on the table

Apparently from talks with staff that use to work at GW, Jervis Johnson was the last hold out on the rules design team to focus the rules around Casual play and that competitive play was the 'side hustle', everyone else on the rules team was super into competitive play. so when he left, all that was left were the rules guys who were ultra-focused on competitive play and casual play fell to the wayside.

For the first chunk of tenth I was the Bad guy at my store. My main army is Craft World, and in January before 10th dropped I got into Imperial Knights after listening to Kingmaker. Our store still had a Christmas Knights box. So happy I can play Eldar at the store now.

First game ever played. 500 points vs Space Wolves in Ravenwing detachment. Turns out we were evenly matched, as we both expected there to be more objectives than just Khorne's "I require skulls, go out and collect!" I had first deploy, set up my BSS with ASB and HB in the ruin, with an eye towards getting them up to second and third level for shooting into stuff. His Termies infiltrating into the center axed that plan. So I bunched up in the ruin and set my Castigator behind it, so it wouldn't be shoot up by his two Missile Scout units. He got first turn and charged in. I got no scratches. First mistake, fell back with my two units in engagement so that my tank could fire into the Termies. I think I got one wound through, not a great trade. Crusaders advance to the side, to try and distract a wolf pack or two. My Seraphim dropped down and nuked one pack of dogs. Second fight phase finished off my Dialogus and Battle Sisers, and took out two Sacresants. Think I got one Terminator down in t2. Turn 3, my biggest mistake, and one that kinda soured the whole match for me, is that I totally derped on the Seraphim's movement. I advanced 5 inches for a total of 11, so I could get in range of one scout squad so they couldn't TP out and back in. What I SHOULD have done is normal move so I could torch them, maybe getting the entire squad. If not, at least then I wouldn't have lost 4 of them cutting down the squad in combat. My Palatine's last 3 bodyguards got bodied, Viviann down to 1 wound, so she goes Super Saiyan and cuts down 5 Terminators. My first 2 or 3 MD were 1s, finally got some 6's to use on Overwatch with the tank to work on his scouts and other dogs. Crusaders died, Vivian died taking his Librarian down to ONE WOUND, and because I was derping on the Seraphim I couldn't block his TP or chase him down. It was great fun and great disappointment. Currently retooling my list, building some Melta Dominions to take the place of the Seraphim, dropping the Crusaders and Dialogus to do so. I am a bit bummed my list was more killy than I expected, as I had hoped for a more...'fair' game? On the other hand just 2 of my units almost wiped a brick of Terminators and their leader which is 300 points...and there was someone with a LAND RAIDER playing against GSC at 500 points...and losing. So I have no idea what to make of this, ostensibly Space Marine/CSM, noob league, other than to read my datasheets. Read the core stratagems. Reread my datasheets. Repeat a few times.

The problem with opposing the meta is getting curb stomped by anybody who brings a good list. Meta will impact even the lowest tier of player no matter how you feel about it

This was fun to watch, I am new to 40K and tabletop war gaming and it was fun seeing two different people that I’ve been watching do a very cute colab 👍🏽

I enjoy winning games but I'm terrible at writing "competitive" lists. I bring units that I like using and/or look cool to me, usually these units do not end up being meta or even competitive.

I don't know why you said this was fine as audio only, the editing and the visuals are great!

Subscribe to my channel: www.youtube.com/@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber/?sub_confirmation=1 Subscribe to Arthur's channel: www.youtube.com/@UCGvoBiIcphBQ7DPGs0TukZQ

On the topic of detachment flavor, the Champions of Russ for Space Wolves is the best example I think in terms of feeling like the faction its representing. At least from the initial release.

Good addition of the sound que. Hadn't seem (heard) other channels doing this, and its super useful

Usually my annoyance ends up becoming that while they can be separate (Competitive and Casual Play) GW is balancing for Competitive. While it is an efficient way to gather data the Casual Players are left out. Then they balance cool units and unexpected combos that do end up punishing Casual Players for the sins of Competitive. And while people can say 'just do what you want with your group' there is some sort of feeling of playing 'as intended' with GW's Balancing. Some things are just OP and get nerfed yet then again to use some updates and not others is iffy, Horus Heresy and Old World seem so much interesting now. Like. Damn. I get that unique vibe with how each unit works, compared Weapon Skills, Initiative, ect. Super interesting. Mostly TLDR 10th Edition usually feels like "Arcade 40k." Which is just simpler.

So in the crusade I'm in right now I'm playing destroyers cult hyper crypt necrons and the night player who is a meta watch junky flames me I'm known for plays demons and undead in every game and I legit make him squirm My play style is not casual or competitive its how to boggle my opponents to either get them to learn something or give them anxiety attacks Like the end of 9th 81 nurglings and a demon prince Side note I ended up with the kroot box of your friend from Canada wants the mounted units I'll send them his way

This was gold. Great podcast.

This a situation of bonez being a narrative player and needing to find a group to do narrative campaigns with homebrew flex. In a suitably prepped group, you can explore all the fluffy rules you want, because you're adding them over the existing rules. He and Christian just like me fr fr. Comp is fine, AS LONG AS INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL FACTION BALANCE IS GOOD. All the fluffy rules, all the homebrew and fluff? I THIRST for it. I've homebrewed entire detachments and unit statblocks and I do my best to make them balanced so everyone can use and enjoy them.

MRS. SHASERRA! THE KROOT ARE ONTO SOMETHING!

You massively underestimate the true negative "Legend" factor; Legend units will not get properly updated with the rest of the game! With the constant balance changes, fine tuning and modern 'patch culture' 40k 10th edition; Legends are falling further and further behind. Do you think index Legend 1.0 units will be balanced in 12 months compared to the rest of the game? Legend entries were thrown up in the beta version of 10th edition, they're meant to be played alongside the index. Legend entries won't match the codex, and weren't made with "the full game" in mind.

I'm someone who tries to avoid playing top tier character, factions, etc. in games, because I like winning with mid to low tier. I get that no one wants to have a weak army, but someone has to be the weakest. I'd rather focus on assembling, painting and playing armies based off of fun ideas, which are currently: 1. *The Binding Heart:* A GSC with a focus on recruiting Mechanicus and Militarum members who feel hopeless, used, and unloved. 2. *The Order of the Faithful Cogitator:* A "treasonous" Adepta Soritas and Mechanicus army, who preach unity between the Imperial Cult and Cult Mechanicus. They carry the bones of their founders: Magos Rho-M30 and and Canoness Zhu-Li Ette. 3. Primaris Salamanders, painted like Alpha Legion, because they're actually Alpha Legion.

It’s 2067, 27th edition just dropped. Buy the game standard 40,000pt army. Spend 6 months painting. Go to game store. Spend 8 hours setting up. Roll d6 vs my opponent. He gets +1 for being Eldar. Damn, he wins. Pack up and go home. See 28th edition announced

@logangant7732

Ай бұрын

No > therefore this happened

Oh cool two of my favorite Warhammer KZreadrs.

My brain works like a calculator of sorts. I barely started in 10th before Christmas, but I can look at a data sheet and go, “Oh that’s viable.” I do not pay attention to what is truly the meta in any current moment more so rules and points changes. My best bud and I both play the same. We know what’s good and what’s bad based on the stats alone. It’s not that we refuse to play “bad units” but more so that we see no point, it just doesn’t compute in our brains. The one time I brought a meme list his first response was “Why the hell would you take that?” and despite it being a nail biting game, I had little to no fun because I felt like everything I did was awkward and ill-placed. I don’t know maybe I’m weird but we play “Meta-adjacent” as we would call it and try to have fun, but our fun comes in the form of having units that work well together in a strong army that marches forward in hopes of victory.

Art is one of my favorite new 40k lore doods. and i love him, very Canadian.

Legends are fine :) my friend has a really well kitbashed and painted Death Guard leviathan Dreadnought. I love seeing it on the table. It’s blown up my Corvus and lancer in one foul swoop with those 3 hunter killers but that’s just dice being dice

Conquest is so fucking fun, I don’t see how it’s now blown up more.

Orcs with dinos: I'm sold

29:01 you know what would make the game easy to learn? If all the rules weren't locked behind a $50+ paywall. "I have this rule" okay let me check this free pdf that has that rule vs let me buy a $50 codex to learn the rules of my opponents army.

@Dram1984

2 ай бұрын

A huge portion of GWs customers don’t actually play the game but buy rules and models. Giving the rules away for free would help the game but hurt GWs bottom line.

@missivory_missraine

2 ай бұрын

​@Dram1984 thats the problem I have. The rules dont catch up with every faction evenly so you unfair balance.

I just play what I love and do so effectively. I've learnt my army better than I've learnt the game

On the topic of Legends … Tauros Assault Vehicle/Venator my beloved

Interesting discussion. I guess I'm not sure what it would fall under but the folks at 40k in 40m seem to be mildly competitive and have a good time. But I watch mostly because of how much fun they have. Although I'm a complete new player so I have no idea what's meta or not. But I do enjoy how much they enjoy the game. There's probably a nice middle ground where you can be competitive with people as long as it's all in good fun. I think I've seen one person get mad about their rolls(marginally) on that show but I've only watched the 10th edition games so far basically. I've tried to look up how meta their lists are but you just get spammed with meta 40k lists while doing so. Maybe someone more experienced can enlighten me? If you can make your own rules or do what you want with the game then there's going to be other people who will enjoy the way you play as well. And also, since you brought it up. The reason I found your youtube was the "How to Build a Genestealer Cult Army" Though I've been scared by the painting requirements for Genestealers as I've never even painted an army before, but I just love how weird they look.

This was feckin awesome!! Deathwatch will get better... I hope 😂 sweet to hear you and Mr Bones have a waffle! He wouldn't have had a nice cup of tea though I reckon (or "proper" fish and chips) 😂😂 He's missing out (You see me Mr Bones) 😆

I appreciate you using the old squat biker. GW seemed to get a lot of praise when LoV came out, and I don't get it. They seem boring: shorter, slower space marines. Whereas the old squats had the fantasy dwarf crossed with bikers and truckers crossed with sci fi pirates madness.

Halfway through, I think I understand why this guy Bone's opponent thought it was his first game.

The starter set makes a scarily good starter army for Thousand Sons, assuming you don't care about the Egyptian/ birdgor schtick GW are going for. Hell, buy two, have a 2000pt army. You could buy a Rhino, and it's a vaguely good starter army (yes, termagents are Tzaangor, and you can put them on poker chip discs)

Between 20 strategems and 50 rules in which 5-10 is important and 6 strats and 10 rules in wich all is usefull i will choose second. For me warhammer become really competitive and complex only then 70% of competitve part of game will be not "meta list", "right deploy" and "stay away 12". And 100 additional rules can;t fix it. I played some meta list and it was really boring games. And meta and non meta game... in my comminity it's not a problem because people always asks about it. And i think it's very nice solution, because playing with some thematic or fun list against metachaser is just waste of time and not fun(

Ah 7th edition orks. Where mob rule actively went from good standard to pure crap by killing own boyz and those shiny Gorknauts and Morkanauts getting blown up by a stray lascanon shot due to glance and pen tables to the walkers being walkers instead of super heavies.

Pick Sisters of Silence and a Warhound Titan to accompany them :D

I found my other brain cell, we are the meme. You say you're playing T'au; what they expect: super pilots in cramped mech suits. What they'll see: Tusken Raiders doing their battle cry. Lmao

I've never really played meta stuff, so I've kind of slowly dragged my group out of the "metachaser mindset" because no one wants to table the person just having fun. This has long term allowed me to do things like earlier today finally playing my first (online) game with an all Kroot army with a member of my online group. It's not the best, but it is so much fun. It really makes you think about playing like a pack hunter, feels most similar to the Genestealers but in a different way. With much fewer ways of dealing mortal wounds, it's still a lot of clever movement shenanigans, but you really need to play the long game of chip damage until you can ensure you eliminate a unit in a single phase. 3 turns of set up for one hell of a turn 4 has left me with one of the best feelings of accomplishment ever. Was still a tie (again, it's not the best army), but it was worth that for me and my group to giggle like idiots over the mental image of two terminators getting torn apart by six bird gorillas.

My biggest beef with the Sisters launch box: I still haven't built everything in it, can no longer use the fancy codex or datacards because they're for 8th edition, and the Combat Patrol is £30 cheaper than it was and includes a Rhino.

It is absolutely crazy how much I agree with bones. I don't think he said a single thing I disagree with. Like it's nice for the game to be easy to pick up, but having factions be unique is very important to me as well. Also I feel the sentiment about the "meta necronomicon" is just way too accurate for my life, and applies to everything, like TCGs.

4th was peak lore for me. It has since dropped too many good allegories.

37:30 according to their own stock reports the old world starting sets (separately) both sold better than the the 3.0 dominion boxset for AoS. Their target audience is 20 somethings who played total war. Thats why their plan is to sell old models. Old folks who played fantasy all already have armies and dont buy them

Legends always depends if the people you play with accept it as normal rules. My gaming group does allow it, but not everyone does. So for many people legends means the model is dead and cant be played since its either too weak or too strong. I may play some legend unit one time not sure though.

Crushing defeat in anything your trying to learn sours you to it I'm sure. Vudeo games count too

I really enjoyed the video however as a newer player(began playing end of 9th) I’ve never found the anti competitive arguments very motivating. Seems to me that most concessions to competitive have either been absorbed without too much of an issue or improved the game overall. I also think the list crafting side is one of the most fun parts of Warhammer and making a competitive list with a theme is a fun thing I do all the time.

Coming from playing trading card games (which should really be called 'buying singles card games' since nobody trades cards) it's SUPER normal for things that are not aligned with gameplay to get hit (or, if you're KONAMI America, things that are no longer actively being sold) so I'm in the "I don't want to play it or play against it" camp for Legends BUT if people want to play with their Legends models then literally who cares??? (Also Legends is explicitly not a banlist and is mostly used to just delete stock GW no longer wants to sell/produce/maintain so...)

All i wanna say is all sisters custodes is BASED and you should go play it. Its only like $1400 of the worst points per dollar in custodes.

12:38 conquest let's gooooo!

I'm building my 21st-25th atalan Jackals right now, meta what?

Okay straight up going to disagree that DG isn't fun right now its super fun to play DG right now compared to just being tough contagions are immensely fun and rewarding to play with but i can totally understand the narrative disconnect people are feeling. I think the main issue at the moment (As a competitive player) is the meta mentality that people have. Especially when it comes to spam lists currently. 5 Dreadknights, 30 death company, wraith spam. People take spam lists all the time because they think its the way to win and for most average games the skew will work and they get the win vs casual jimmy and its an awful experience. But a lot of the good players don't actually take spam and use their in game skill with toolbox lists to win the game. But to get to that level takes a lot of learning and losses and people seem to just want the easy win. I wish more people were creative with their list building and experimented with new units. I'm not a fan of meta mentalities and I honestly believe thankfully DG is one of the few armies where every unit is decent and balanced and can work. I don't think competitive is necessarily a problem for 40k but i think its the meta chase mentality which has become more and more normalised in every form of media, 40k, Video Games etc etc.

@JS-mu9qd

2 ай бұрын

agree. Death Guard is pretty fun, but i need to be careful to not exaggerate. I have some flamers since some Deathshroud and plague Marines with flamers. Right now Flamers are pretty strong. Especially the Anti Infantry. Though it wasnt my intention to chase the meta. I just like the models. Seems i just got the one to kill Tyranids i guess.

If they don’t want to refresh Catachan, get some alternate heads.

@Direwolf1771

2 ай бұрын

Or proxy, though that’s a lot.

I want to play Custodes, but at the same time, I don't want to be a meta-slave asshole, so I don't. Instead, I wait until they get nerfed into the ground (fucking hopefully), then I will play them.

👀💃

Almost this entire thing would have been very much improved with an actual gamedesigner giving his impressions as well. A lot points made here are based on flawed thoughts about games, because GW does such a poor job at game design. Many things could just be solved if the game designers at GW were better at doing their job, or people wouldnt be so bad at the game.

nice

KROOT KROOT KROOT!! Kroot supremacy!!

Competitive play style is ruining warhammer, 10th is not great.

Bro how old ARE you O_O

Fluffy and fun > competitive

I am in a weird place for 40k competitive, started in 3rd/4th edition as a kid where I didn't have the patience for the entire hobby and just wanted to jump into games. Emerging into 10th is strange with friends who like 40k but have been in and out of the hobby and can be friendly to semi-competitive, we like theory crafting and other such things in other games, and tabletop sim let's anyone run anything available. Legends are fine with us. I have only really done 4 games so far and need more but I am finding it hard to go "this is how the game is supposed to feel". My main armies I like are GSC, imperial gaurd, and death gaurd, but have only played with first two. I have watched 40k stuff and didn't want to be some ass who pulverizes everyone with some sweaty list, especially since my friend was running an all grot ork list. We played 500, two 1000, and currently in a 2v1 2000 pt game where I switched to IG. However I feel pressured to use some meta things. I've been basically wiped off the table turn 2 turn 3 in each game, which while we play casually it doesn't feel great, and makes me so-so about wanting to do more narrative focused game. I see this and wonder if the game functional/designed for lower points or if the board is too small or other little things that we aren't doing correctly. I love the GSC look, lore, and unending insurgency feel but on the board cult ambush has only "worked" once, with one unit coming back and everyone else either failed or has an enemy dissolve the marker in my own deployment zone cause my units have been knocked over by a stiff breeze and I lack any board control. Maybe I need to start with a more conventional army to establish myself before jumping into GSC or just have more games under my belt. Possibly trying 9th edition or making our own rules. Maybe we are going to narrative play that the GSC units/characters are able to slink away bloodied but not killed to be part of the narrative. Looking forward to codex's and hopefully new non character units. Tldr: We look at GW for how things are supposed to be, once we start tweaking things on our own, it might be better but also could be "oh is that unbalanced". Some general guidance could be nice. Non competition play needs to be somewhat balanced. There also needs to be better internal balance, especially for the smaller unit armies, individual points costs for war gear / individual models I feel is what is needed.

I think this collaboration is really strange. You are so positive and propose solutions to the shortcomings in this game while this guy is the epitome of everything obnoxious about our community. Endless complaining without any research who "Loves to argue". He really brings down your vibe.

@zissoulander

2 ай бұрын

Agreed, but that's why this kind of conversation is interesting for both of them as they meet in the middle.

@skunk12

2 ай бұрын

Please reread your comment and ask why irony is a thing. 😆🤣😂

@rorysherrod5336

2 ай бұрын

@@skunk12 It's really just an observation more than a complaint. I'm sorry if it came off that way 😕

@rorysherrod5336

2 ай бұрын

@@zissoulander That’s definitely a fair take. I just find it so frustrating to hear someone saying a lot of things. I agree with in a tone that is so grating. If he came at these topics more diplomatically, I think it would be a lot easier to listen to

@skunk12

2 ай бұрын

@@rorysherrod5336 dont apologize. You're fine! I was just trying to joke

Imagine following the meta, how cringe huehuehue

Asymmetrical games absolutely can be competitive and balanced. That is such a gross and weak cop-out. Stop simping for your hobby so much and learn a little game theory and ludology if your going to ignorantly pronounce that claim as absolutely flat facts and not a failing in what is frequently idiotic and stale rules.

10th in a nutshell no flavor, no fun, only statistics, and getting tabled turn 2 because the first model put on the table was one inch off. Oh yeah it still takes 4 hours to play.