This calls into question the accuracy of Nigel Tunnel’s assumption that an amp that goes to 11 is “1 louder”. This is a much more thorough and educational explanation.

@douglasdog1

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but when you’re on 10, where do you go from there.

Stop destroying "what people just know." How dare you. Lol... But seriously, thank you, this was indeed very enlightening. I was actually a little afraid of damaging things with input gain set too high. Now I'm wishing amp makers would put a little graphic in the manual showing these multipliers >_> I'll just carry around an SPL meter from now on XD

Indeed, anybody that has used (& loved) old Trace Elliot amps will know that having the master knob on one third with the gain knob set correctly & you dig in, that thing will be pumping out pretty much its full chuff

Good explanation! And makes sense immediately when you said multiplier with ceiling that you can't go higher than. Explains a lot !!

Thank you for being a myth-buster! I have a chemistry degree and over 26 years as a forensic scientist(retired!). I'm curious about the amp you're developing!!!

One other factor I'd like to hear you discuss is Compression, which as you know comes standard on many bass amps. Setting a compressor correctly would help avoid the problem you discuss in this video of a bassist setting their gain too low to avoid clipping when playing at their loudest level...? Thanks for another interesting video.

Best sounding bass and guitar cabs I ever heard.

Why not just put a peak progam meter and clip light after all the variable gain stages to show what the power amp is doing? Eliminate the marketing BS that way.

This explains why my amp seems to run out of extra power when the master vol goes above 70%. I run the preamp quite hot to get a bit of dirt when I dig in so the signal going into the power amp is near its maximum meaning the power stage will reach its maximum well before the master volume pot reaches its maximum.

@skullheadwater9839

2 жыл бұрын

It also depends on the value of the pot. I build my own tube amp designs. Sometimes I will find an amp I am building or modding gets really loud as soon as you start to turn it past 0 and it will max out at 12 o clock say. So, you have to change the value of the pot to a higher ohm value which will distribute the power through the rotation of the pot better. Sometimes it may be because what I have removed before the pot that could cause this like in a 1950s projector amp which had this array of resistors, capacitors and pathways at the input before grid 1, the volume is after the first gain stage and was doing the above. This is because I changed what the amp was originally designed to do which was amplify the output of the phototube from the info down the edge of the film. I simply put a standard guitar amp input stage and it caused this to happen.

Many reasons why it's not half...you explain it pretty well but their are so many variables that have to be taken into account...even the pots types, log or linear, effect your volume amount at a certain setting, say 12 o'clock ,most amps are pumping by 12 o'clock, using over half the power on tap...it will clip & distort before it reaches a full turn of your volume pot...no matter what class of amp, some more than others..

"Hearing music," is surely the essence of any listening experience, when amplification of sound hits saturation and effectively prevents the human ear from discerning interval differences between any given notes, or chords are fused into a rough approximation by distortion",its time to go work in a foundry!

It would have been good to reference Lemmy’s bass playing as’MAX’ volume!!🤘🤘

Very informative video! Subscribed.

You can reach full power at maybe "2" on the volume knob if your input signal is enough. If it's not loud enough, even "10" can be far from full power. Also depends on type of sound going in. Then there is volume control taper. Most people try and scale volume controls roughly with loudness, so "2" is "twice as loud" as "1", "4" is "twice as loud" as "2", and "8" is "twice as loud as "4", or "5" is "half as loud" as "10". It takes roughly 10 x the power for "twice as loud" With this scaling, "5" might be 10dB down from "10", but it could be 6dB down or 15dB down depending on the taper. In which case your 30 watt amp (assuming matched gains and a sine wave input at a frequency where the speaker's impedance is the amp's optimum) is only producing 1 watt at "half volume".

interesting. This would explain why, on some amp reviews, the amps volume stops going up before its on a max setting. Cool :)

When I was a kid I used to plug my stereo into this 100 watt amp into a 15" speaker thinking, wow this thing gets really loud on even 1/8 volume and I didn't crank it much. Then when my parents left the house I wanted to see how loud it got, but it just started clipping more and more past about 4/10 on the volume control. It was LOUD sure, but not as much as I thought it would get.

My bassist has this problem with his setup. bass > Darkglass X ultra > SWR 350 X > line level DBX 32 band eq into the line level FX return. The darkglass pedal has a parallel low end and high and level + a master, the EQ in the loop has a 12dB boost and cut knob on the output, the amp has a preamp gain with peak light and a master with an build limiter that is switchable. You can see the speakers in the ported cab move pretty far but it just gets drowned out by the cymbals and the guitars. The guitars are volume matched with the drums and have the lows carved out pretty aggressive with a boost pedal. There must be something wrong somewhere in all these gain staging option. Please send help hahaha

Haha! I'm doing this all wrong then. I run my boot pedal into the effects loop so it only hits the power amp stage. Before all the effects. I do really love how it sounds tho.

yes! I want more of this kind of content

this 15w laney ironheart head has a "less than 1w" setting thank all that is holy!!and its WAAYYY more than enough in my room through my 2x10 cab, it has TONS left LESS is so much MORE ,whats your amp like alex !please ?😎👍

is your amp going to be valve or solid state or hybrid?

Really depend on the creator. Actually some start to make to volume in the way that at 1/4 it is 1/4 at 1/2 it is 1/2 and at 3/4 it is 3/4 of the power. Need to use something inside the power amp but don't know what

What is the best way to set the first knob, input gain, or however its labelled? My GK doesn't have a light so I played about until I got a sound I liked at a normal playing style at a comfortable volume and then adjusted the 'master' at the other end so I could be heard in the practice room over our very loud drummer.

@BarefacedAudio

2 жыл бұрын

Trust your ears! A couple of weeks ago I was doing some bass and vocals stuff and I hadn’t finished wiring up my pedalboard so I set the gain really high on my amp to overdrive the front end when I played hard but clean when I was more gentle. Normally I’d set it to stay clean on the loudest notes but sometimes bass needs dirt!

Thanks Alex! How do you interpret the labels of the master volume knob of the Quilter Bass Block 800? - 7 o"clock is labeled 0W (should be 0) - 10 o'clock is labeled 40W (instead of 3) - noon is labeled 160W (instead of 5) - 2 o'clock is labeled 400W (instead of 7) - 5 o'clock is labeled 800W (instead of 10) Do you think it makes any sense, or is it pure marketing BS?

@BarefacedAudio

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not quite sure how the master volume works on that Quilter - the manual suggests that it's a limiter threshold knob, controlling the peak voltage allowed through (and the marked power is what that voltage generates into a 4 ohm load). If that's the case then it's a pretty unique example! It may also be a gain knob, it could be a dual gang pot with one gang controlling the final gain stage and the other gang controlling the limiter threshold. Pat Quilter is a very clever engineer so nothing would surprise me!

@virgilrytaar9083

Жыл бұрын

Pat is a genius, who knows what is going on inside that amp. It's pure magic, best of the lightweight stuff

Ok so since speakers make the most difference in sound I recently invested in quite a few to swap out and blend together in my Silent Sister cab for recording. Not sure why they make speakers low as 15 Watts like the Celestion Alnico Blue or 20 watts like the EVH. Since most amps sit around 100 watts this puts such low watt speakers at risk of catching fire due to overheating. So I get it depends how hard Im playing to determine the multiplication, but if Im playing moderately loud and only turned half way up, can it not mean Im at half the wattage limit? And then what If Im further using an attenuator like the UA OX Box before the speaker cab? Would that take the wattage output down further if i'm only halfway up on this as well? Just want to keep from burning down my IsoCab and speakers aren't returnable

@BarefacedAudio

2 ай бұрын

Most guitar amps aren’t around 100W! Yes, big Marshall heads are but most classic and modern heads are much lower power. Generally speakers don’t catch fire from overpowering, instead the voice coil goes open circuit from the glue melting and the voice coil wire snapping, or from the insulation failing causing a momentary short and the wire then failing like a fuse. Sometimes you’ll get a bit of smoke but rarely any fire!

@Voitcu

2 ай бұрын

@@BarefacedAudio Well thanx so much for replying so promptly that's a bit of a relief at least. My ENGL SE e670 is 100 Watts though lol I used to have the Invader at 150, and I have the Kraken at 180. But like I said I'm only running it at half volume and then using an attenuator so I can warm those sweet tubes up without smashing out my neighbors windows lol So far no smoke lol but Im only performing short runs after all since I'm still in the experimental stages. Should be able to get some sick tones from blending. I'm at 11 speakers currently soon to add the Redback and Hempback to the collection. Sucks the EVH is such low wattage because it sounds amazing, hoping the Redback at 150 watts sounds similar or better. Wouldn't want to damage such a pretty speaker lol

Does the same apply to valve bass amps such as the Portaflex?

@BarefacedAudio

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely - to all gear that contains a power amp and any volume/gain knobs or any sort.

From 50 to 100 watts is about 3db louder 🔊 thats it!

@TimpBizkit

Жыл бұрын

Saying only 3dB is like saying only 10^0.3 or around twice. Knowing what 3dB sounds like as a volume change, it's about 1 click on a Samsung Galaxy phone - jumpy, sure but not as much as you'd expect when you turn the volume on a TV from halfway along the bar to the full bar. It's more like going from about an 8 out of 10, to 10. I mean it's hard to scale a loudness, which is all in your head, with a number.

How were TC able to drive an electric chainsaw using an RH450?

@BarefacedAudio

Жыл бұрын

Did they? And if so, why wouldn’t they be able to?

@joshl8159

Жыл бұрын

@@BarefacedAudio ah sorry I may have misunderstood from your video, I thought you mentioned the amps only put out a small voltage

How can some Silly powered pa cab say it has 2000watts of power, but only draws 700 watts from the wall socket? Ooh all the hyped wattage sales jargon 🤣.

@BarefacedAudio

2 жыл бұрын

Actually that's quite a different issue - and an even more complex one!

What happened to the Barefaced Bass amp?

@BarefacedAudio

Жыл бұрын

Still working on it!

@virgilrytaar9083

Жыл бұрын

@@BarefacedAudio good......I've held off buying a new amp for this very reason. Once its signed off, can I have the version with only 1 knob on the front please?

You just figured out factor of 10 have you? Are you one of those people who thinks if it says on the back of your Fender Deluxe 100 watts means that's how much power it puts out? Because that is power consumption laddy. I am just picking and I am poking fun at those things the average guitar player thinks. I actually repair tube amps and radios and build my own designs and convert existing tube gear into guitar amps as a hobby. Cheers

@BarefacedAudio

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry, are you suggesting that I’m confusing power consumption with power output ratings? What do you mean by “factor of 10”?

@skullheadwater9839

2 жыл бұрын

@@BarefacedAudio I typed that at the beginning of the video to poke fun at guitar player myths. Factor of 10 refers to the fact that a 20 watt amp is no where near twice as loud as a 10 watt etc. I was being daft and poking fun.