When I lived with him I became the unwilling mother, when I escaped I was back to the hounded femme fatale. The real me stopped existing until I isolated and recalibrated. It is a horrible experience being imprinted by a covert narc.

Prof. Vaknin, I have just left my 44 year imprisonment in a lunatic asylum with my sadistic and pathetic excuse for a man, every description you have given of the narcissist in this episode with his femme fatale infatuation I have witnessed with my own eyes, his relationship with me was stingy in every respect as you have pointed out. Everything you say in every episode regarding narcissists and their behaviour is utterly uncannily true to the reality of what I have witnessed. I am with him since I was 17 years old and I have finally left at 61, every young girl needs to know how to identify these people and run as fast as they can. There was no internet to educate us back in 1977 but I am still grateful to you for drawing the true picture of narcissism. Only education on the subject of narcissism can open peoples eyes, everything is so deceptive and the insanity is so hidden that one cannot identify them without that valuable education. I have been lucky to get away from him with my life.

@dingo9637

Жыл бұрын

🙏🌹💛💃🏻

@MaryNewmanFayard

Жыл бұрын

You are right! This should be required in high school just like any basic daily living skill. In this world we live in it should be mandatory to include abnormal psychology .. High School and College.

@MaryNewmanFayard

Жыл бұрын

Forgot to add.. It should also be a requirement before applying for a MARRIAGE LICENSE!

It's mind blowing how ACCURATE prof. Vaknin is! Everything he says I'm living right now!

I was the ‘mother’ to him in my 19 year marriage and was treated with the minimum needed to keep me there. Everything you describe is spot on, word to word. Your insights are astoundingly accurate. Even though I left him many years ago, it gives me great comfort to hear what you say and know I wasn’t imagining all what I did, it is what it is. Ever grateful to you for educating us on this fascinating, mind boggling subject. 🙏

Mortification is a soul searching trough other people eyes

@samvaknin

9 ай бұрын

Great definition.

Wow, I just realized I am just his mother figure. So sad!

Professor Vaknin, I have left a 15 year hall of mirrors, so called relationship. I have watched a lof videos. You are a life saver. I know I need to work on myself. If I was healthy I would never have gotten in it. I was the Narcissist mother and now I feel like I am reflecting the Narcissist. She would drive to the mechanic and expect me to drop everything to assist her. At the start, we had a lot of sex and towards the end very transactional. I thought I was dealing with a prostitute. I am in California USA. More people need to hear your message. You are the father I never had :). God Bless!!! I will be going to therapy shortly!! A world of gratitude for your message🖐

I was the f'n mother! I encouraged his mother to move in, and that's when I saw it...I mortified him and left them to each other 😁 Thank you Prf. Vaknin!

Well, I don´t know. All narcissists I know want the motherly type for long standing supply. They do not want to give the maximum but only the minimum for maximal benefit. Cannot imagine how a narcissist-femme fatale relationship should work out. I can imagine more of an affair than a relationship. It may be a shared phantasy but I think the femme fatale is more of a mistress than a partner or spouse.

I'm not sure if this comment is incredibly inappropriate, but the narcissist in my life literally said these words to me explicity during intimacy. Specifically about this bargain for solitude & outsourcing. This is the most heart stoppingly accurate description of the last decade of my Iife.

I am so deeply shaken and touched by this video. I now understand my role much better and why it had to come to this particular break - The role in his script of fantasy became a burden. So sad because I wanted to connect with this person in a different way, but now I understand why that couldn't work at all. Thank you for this clarification.

This has illuminated another grand hall of my personal horror story.

Thank you for your words, especially at the final part of this video.

Currently going through this possessive phase w the narcissist in my life he is perceiving my waking up to our shared fantasy. Our 10 year anniversary is tomorrow a sense of finality is as eminent as his 6th sense of our story book closing.

Absolutely spot on!!

Maybe you can look at the narcissist as a kind of terminator: human appearance, machine on the inside.

After I watched this video I rented and watched Orson Welles' "The Lady from Shanghai" (1947) starring Rita Hayworth, a classic "Femme Fatale" movie.

Bravo Sam! You have perfectly described myself,and frankly,90% of the people in my sphere of consciousness. Thank you for the breakthrough moment.

Thank you Sam, I saw so many of your videos and am amazing how each brings yet another facet that opens up new awareness. This is by far the best insight into psychology I came across.

All I can say is that I am constantly amazed at how well you explain everything so perfectly. And truthfully ….etc best video ever !

@user-hi3ov9ou8i

2 жыл бұрын

8п

This one is epic! What a great and spot on description. Very understandable 🙏🏼 everything is pot on! I’m in a process of leaving narcissist, just so you know - I’m moving the country - that was the only way. And still in process and still not clear if we are able to get separated fully. It’s not a romantic relationship, it’s work. all so confusing.

And he tests you to see how much it will take for you to leave him

@sugarsnap1000

3 жыл бұрын

True and he will leave in the end either way

Thank you.

Briljant. Thank you Sam

Ok, so if i understand correctly; i should be a femme fatale to gain proper treatment from the narc? I was a femme fatale, i still am, but he turned me into a motherly type towards him with his jealousy and possesiveness. I should get back to who i am and stop trying to serve this manchild.

This video helped me so much can you make a part 2 to this?

I love this video ☺️!! I keep on watching it .. I pray you speak more about the the connection between the femme fatale and the narcissist.. I wonder if it’s the same for the somatic?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

It is.

@irmadelgado6787

2 жыл бұрын

!b Mb -!!

This material seems to me very accurate and informative, thank you! I'd just like to add a thought to this that might allow people to see things from a third perspective. Personalities are changeable entities - as they exist in time - like everything else, they flicker. My close/intimate interaction with someone I'd describe as a narcissist functioning on a borderline level (or maybe a borderliner with prominent narcissistic defences) revealed to me something really important - it led me to the realisation that I was acting as a care-taker (mother) on the surface as a defence mechanism to a borderline functioning, which I reached in the course of the relationship. If nothing else I'd say that it was one of the most revealing, deep and difficult interactions and although many would not call it love, I would. I hope for this person to reach the same self-knowledge one day without fear of what they will see.

Omg!! Its true I am in that bubble, he isolated me from everything, everyone, and still only talks to me here and there no longer as often as before. Per him, he is all I need. I am so sad, but he is like a drug. This is on point, he is 100% sure of me and yea he is like that believes he is god, and I am just a toy....

@ru.m.6119

Жыл бұрын

@@kathleendubois7128 I left for awile then he searched for me, that he wanted to talk. So yea we talked he loved bomb me. I took him back BUT I dont react anymore, nor cry and I just ignore him most of the time. He is "nice" for 3days then he pops his cap. We dont live together so its easier to deal with now. I just listen to most all ytv about this subject and it helps me deal with it better.

@ru.m.6119

Жыл бұрын

@@kathleendubois7128 thank you.

I ❤️ Vaknin

That is why so many men lose their interest in their wives just after the wedding))

@petrichor2973

2 жыл бұрын

i dont get it

@charnikacoggs9399

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t get it

@chiara1347

2 жыл бұрын

I get it :)

My father was frequently pronounced to be a megalomaniac by acquaintances. He always showed jealousy when I was in a relationship with a "boyfriend", in a manner reminiscent of that which you describe for a narcissist and his partner. When the relationship failed, invariably because the boyfriend became abusive, my father seemed to try to punish me, by rejecting my reports of abuse, and blaming me for bad behaviour instead.

@jennyblight4039

3 жыл бұрын

Or rather, according to the definitions given above, he showed 'posessiveness'

Dr. Vaknin, thank you for your work and for the help you have given me and many others. Let me ask you a question - how does this process work with female narcissists? Can we just flip this dynamic and change roles from male to female and from maternal to paternal, or is it more complicated?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

Everything said in my videos apply to women narcissists: same dynamics with the mother. Of course, the relationship with the father is different: boys compete, girls seduce subtly.

Where have you been all my life 😩

I have watched many of your videos and this has definitely been one of my favorites and I have saved it in my favorites folder to rewatch again and again. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. This has definitely helped me make sense of some things. Can a fem fatale be changed into a mother figure? I’m also curious as to how coverts “fall in love” . Is there a video of that? Thanks so much again!

@cristinapop3650

4 ай бұрын

This îs my question too...can a femme fatal be change into a mother figure?How?..

He made me into his femme fatale but I definitely mortified him by going no contact, unannounced. It had a huge impact on him, I even heard he is in therapy. How is that possible?

@samvaknin

7 ай бұрын

Search the channel for "first".

@fairy12324

4 ай бұрын

Maybe he was bpd instead of npd?

It explains and to recognise all of this. Only, what is it when the danger increases like you describe, what comes next after physical, emotional abuse to the partner of the disordered partner ?

Plus..okay is this why he resents and hates her so much? Cause he sees her as someone who constantly puts him to work?

I am confused I thought that it was always the same love bomb devaluation discarded now your changing the game order, and does this apply if it is the other way around the guy is the femme, can you please explain I feel like I'm the girl in your scenario I am the man with a woman narcissist I'm good looking funny don't mean to flirt in front of her but it comes so naturally but I still try to make her happy but I can't hold my tongue when something doesn't seem right I have to say it like it is , but when we break up at times I hurt so bad like I lost someone special to me and I know the feeling I lost my son, I lost my wife too cancer , and more losses of people very close to me, thank you for all you have taught to the victim community of narcissist and how you get to the core of what makes them , I think you are brilliant!!

What is a femme fatal?

Is it possible to be a narcissist without having temper issues? Can a non-angry/ even-tempered narcissist exist? Someone who’s passive aggressive but also forgiving?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

If he is covert, yes.

23.46- test

Sam, is it possible to transform from maternal figure to femme fatale in his eyes? Is it possible to change initial snapshot?

@samvaknin

2 жыл бұрын

Yes.

@MeowMeow-yw5xt

2 жыл бұрын

@@samvaknin Thank you for the reply.

@MeowMeow-yw5xt

2 жыл бұрын

@@samvaknin This subject still intrigues me deeply. I was thinking about object inconstancy but not sure how they are able to transform mother figure to femme fatale? Do they change the narrative? Does the change of physical appearance after a long time no see do the trick? Creating anxiety? Giving highly specific supply?

This was really helpful. Question: can self aware woman can be both? The femme fatale and the mother and switch between the two roles while being with a narcissist? Is that confusing to him or will he be satisfied and able to participate in this and, if this "role switching" by one woman is repeated enough, would he eventually break through?

@samvaknin

7 ай бұрын

Not possible. She can switch from one role to the other permanently, though.

So a narcissistic male, will allow his wife to cheat as long as she doesn’t leave

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

Most cerebral narcissists would.

@ckast9715

3 жыл бұрын

@@samvaknin thank you. Makes so much sense.

@missj2045

3 жыл бұрын

I think the narcissists who use sex to hook their partners are more offended by cheating - even when they're withholding sex from their partner.

@lenalynch8342

Жыл бұрын

Yes, my husband told me he would kill me and the man if I ever cheated (I believe him too)....... About once a year he would accuse me of cheating during a violent outburst that seemingly came out of nowhere. 21 months ago I escaped and have been in hiding ever since (stayed no contact).

@HyperaeonWhiteKnight

11 ай бұрын

@@samvaknin so it's not about being a cuckold.

Can this whole dynamic be applicable the opposite way “male fatale”?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, it applies to a CAD.

@mohammedothman9833

3 жыл бұрын

@@samvaknin thank you for your response.

So the femme fatale is a narcissists too? How long does their relationship usually last?

@vibra1562

2 жыл бұрын

Mine, 8 years and still going on if I want to..

Hi Dr. Vaknin , I watched one of your video where you are talking about an ideal profile for Narcissist (S1), (S2 )score promiscuous,self trashing , full disclosure, high organization of personality and self efficacy .you described her as a unicorn is femme fatale same as unicorn you mentioned in that video ? Thanks you

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

The only ideal is being a source of supply.

@rekhask247

3 жыл бұрын

@Sam Vaknin Thank you.

Is it possible in relationship with Narcissist for BPD to switch her roles from Femme Fatale to "mother" / "domesticated parner figure and vice versa. I think with my Narc my roles are rotating, depending on his needs/responses. When I start to feel neglected while playing role of mother/caretaker, I revert back to Femme and his responses as expected , love bombing, etc...

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, there is no role constancy.

Is possessiveness somehow related to stalking or does stalking come after the narcissist has been abandoned?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

The narcissist stalks and hoovers whenever he perceives looming or actual abandonment that do not involve mortification. Hoovering is stalking.

Can there be more than one femme fatale in this equation? We can assume wife is motherly figure, but can he have several women he considers “unattainable?”

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

If he is somatic or psychopathic, yes. But, even then, it is rare.

PROF. VAKNIN OR ANYONE, HELP, he may suggest ---------- together? What does that mean?

Will the narcissist eventually discard the femme or is the one woman that can keep him?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

As long as she is approach-avoidant, she owns them.

@fgs7528

3 жыл бұрын

@@samvaknin so basically narcissits think they are in love with toxic charming women. Explains why they think consistent people are Boring.

Would these behaviours be expected from a covert narcissist in the same situations? Many thanks.

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

No.

@goinggreen3909

9 ай бұрын

So what would the covert behaviours be like instead?

@asher6047

8 ай бұрын

​@goinggreen3909 Yes I need to know that. I thought this was regarding all narcissists

@katerinap7317

Күн бұрын

@samvaknin so please, Sam, what is the main difference (covert×classic narc)? Thank you.

What would make a narcissist discard a femme fatale, and how does he handle her rejecting him for a new relationship?

@vibra1562

2 жыл бұрын

Listen to the video again, all your answers is there

Hi Dr. Vaknin, I am dating a very successful, covert narcissist. Your definition of the femme fatale describes me very effectively, except I am not promiscuous, quite the opposite. I believe myself to be a situational codependent and react accordingly. I believe that my partner is grooming me to be "the mother". Is this a common practice, to transition the femme fatale into the mother, if she lacks the promiscuity trait?

@foodcrash9450

3 жыл бұрын

He does not say that wives of narcissists are. But what would you do when he refuses sex for a long long time?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

If you are not flirtatious and seductive and you do not triangulate, you are not femme fatale. And, yes, the narcissist converts the femme fatale into a mother figure - if he can.

@barbenok

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for your comment. I could relate 100%

Dear Prof Vaknin, the question which occurred to me is Can a woman who starts out as a femme fatal transition into the role of mother over time?

@samvaknin

6 ай бұрын

Yes.

What if it was both

What happens if it is only 6 months into the connection and you somehow reenacted the narcissists past traumas and went no contact straight after? How does the narcissist react? Wonderful content. Thank you

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

If he did not go through mortification, the chances are that he will try to hoover you.

@dingo9637

Жыл бұрын

🌹

@myriamblancquaert3991

3 ай бұрын

This happened to me too after 3 months no contact now for first time he said he loved me but calls me mummy when having sex.he would also be very jealeous if i show interest in another man ..strange he wants to act like a baby now

Ah around 47- what a good therapist does. I would like to give better help a clap here, i was going through a unique monent with a narcissist and i had a therapist and i believe she may of killed 2 birds with one stone. She put me in a position to mortify my mother's narcissist(who im assuming thought she was femme fatale then moved in and devalued her to the mom she was being ) while he was doing some soul searching on the Appalachian trail. I remember him saying things like "well if your therapist is enabeling this haha" like thinking he was getting away with something lol hope he caught some mortification for thinking i could be interested in my mom's left overs.

Would a narcissist cheat on a femme fatal?

@ckast9715

3 жыл бұрын

Yes!!!!

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

He may seek her opposite: a homely partner for a new shared fantasy, away from her - but only when the femme fatale had dumped him one too many times.

Can you turn from a “famme fatale into a mother after having kids?

@samvaknin

Жыл бұрын

Yes.

@anapascu7906

Жыл бұрын

@@samvaknin Thank you for the answer. Also thank you for all the know-how you provide, you actually made Me understand that I can’t fix somebody and I don’t need to. I moved out and filled for divorce and the fact that I understood what’s happening helped Me a lot. You are great!

Can the narcissist switch his view of View between a mother figure, and a fun fatale during the relationship?

@samvaknin

5 ай бұрын

Rarely. But from femme fatale to mother is common.

@justinekelly7137

5 ай бұрын

@@samvaknin thank you

But if only a femme fatale can induce romantic jealousy how could he ever get mortified due to the rj even tho a ff can never mortify the narcissist?

What if .. A woman is Genuinely good at both?

@samvaknin

3 жыл бұрын

No such thing a motherly femme fatale.

@michelleriley7983

3 жыл бұрын

@@samvaknin I wonder than. I fancy myself as both💁🏼‍♀️. Obviously I'm wrong.

@michelleriley7983

3 жыл бұрын

A Naughty Mommy...💁🏼‍♀️

@romepix

3 жыл бұрын

@@michelleriley7983 the histrionic borderline always needs inappropriate attention, whether negative or positive, it doesn’t matter. I’d look into that descriptor before the boomer fantasy of a “naughty mommy”

@michelleriley7983

3 жыл бұрын

@@romepix What do you consider inappropriate attention? And just so you don't sound pithy dear...I'm an Xer 🥰.I assure you I value your input. Thank You. Will get right on it.

So the Femme Fatale is even the greater narcissist?

Change narcissist to men (sometimes women) in ethiopia and this video will also be true. Could a culture that treats boys/men as kings result in them turning out to he narcissistic

@samvaknin

10 ай бұрын

Search the channel for "collective".

Can his borderline love, his femme fatale be his mother also? We have been each other's almost everythings for years... And the sex never stops..(thank dog!). We are both very loyal. But there is abuse and like Vaknin states....that's the mother repetition compulsion.....and the villifying from me....) ..or if borderline can be mother and whore....how might this change the repetition compulsion drives? How might each help the other instead of harm? Excuse my uneducated questions..thank you.

25 лет брака с нарциссом арабского происхождения. Я узнаю в себе роковую женщину, которую 22 года пытались исправить и превратить в мать нарцисса. Такое бывает? 22 года необыкновенного секса, страсти и скандалов с унижениями, словесной агрессией, расставаниями и возвращениями. Я такая шлюха, с ученой степенью, меня нельзя было контролировать, но не отпускал. Как сказал детям: я просто хотел, чтобы ваша мать готовила еду! А в итоге готовил он. Делал вид, что ничего не замечает, все позволял, но нельзя было называть вещи своими именами. Хотел меня, но другую - покорную и домашнюю. Мне кажется, что он сам не знал чего хочет. Годы дурдома! Потом расставание по известной схеме: полиция, запрет приближаться ко мне, суды, самые низменные оскорбления меня и всего моего окружения, ненависть. Прошло 6 лет. Все еще не пришла в себя. Стараюсь....

femme fatale shouldn't be a narcissist too?

@samvaknin

Жыл бұрын

Usually a histrionic or borderline or psychopath. All three are grandiose.