I just finnished The Wheel Of Time for the first time today. Did a little bit of crying, not ashamed to admit. Such a beautiful ending for Rand. I allready feel an urge to start all over again.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Robert P - I agree, I loved the ending for Rand. The second read is great. So many “aha” moments. Congrats! And now stuff can’t be spoiled.

My spin-off would be Tam’s story of leaving the Two Rivers, meeting Kari, and finding Rand. I feel like there’s a lot of mystery around his character.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Krista C - I want this story!!

Concerning the Healing of Gentling/Stilling: specifically when Nynaeve Healed Logain, she was just fiddling around, experimenting, and accidentally Healed him by trying out something new. She basically said, "I wonder what would happen if I--OOPS!" And suddenly Logain was Healed. Iirc, she used a brand new weave composed MOSTLY of Fire and Earth threads, with a smaller ratio of Wind and Air threads to do it. Then she went over to Siuan and tried to do the SAME EXACT THING on a FEMALE channeler. It was my understanding at the time that Nynaeve did not think to alter her weave to make it more suitable for "operation" on a woman. Thus Nynaeve used a procedure meant for men on a woman and the result was understandably not ideal. If Nynaeve would have used a weave that was mostly Air and Water threads, with less Fire and Earth, it is my theory/belief that Siuan and her assistant could have been Healed fully. Note that it is also possible that the version of the thread may not depend on entirely on gender, but may instead depend upon the strengths of the specific individual. For example, despite being a woman, Egwene was stronger with Earth and Fire threads than she was with Air and Water threads. It possible if Egwene was Stilled and then Healed that she would need the same exact weave that Logain required to be Healed fully. Or it could also be possible that she needs a completely new, but similar weave, just because of differences between saidar and saidin.

@chocolateeteapot4880

Жыл бұрын

I agree about the nature of healing not being ideal when completed on Siuan and Leane, but isn't there a male channeler that heals an Aes Sedai that's been stilled and doesn't suffer from any of the weakening effects? I've only just finished my first read through so I could be mistaken. That suggests to me that a woman healing a man and vice versa, maybe due to the use of Saidar/Saidin rather than the weave itself?

@kalxek1462

Жыл бұрын

You are correct, from the info we have been given, its implied that men can heal women to full strength and vise versa

It could confuse a general audience that the One Power comes from the True Source, and the True Power comes from the Dark One.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

JoelJoel321 - I won’t be surprised, and it wouldn’t bother me. True Source, True Power, One Power...definitely confusing to a general audience.

Something you didn’t discuss too much but that I always thought determined which elements men and women were stronger in was the nature of Saidar and Saidin themselves. I always just assumed that there was more of earth and fire in Saidin and more of air and water in Saidar. This impression probably comes from the way RJ described each of these and the way using them was also described. Another thing I thought which wasn’t discussed was that channeling the power and accessing it would require two separate attributes, physical for channeling but spiritual for accessing. We know that when men and women link that they can channel their opposite power to some extent, they’re just not very good at it. What they cannot do is initiate that initial access to their opposite power. That is how I thought the woman forsaken who used to be a man could channel Saidin. The soul was still male and this body could channel. Anyway just some overthinking on my part. Loved this discussion. Bring on more totally nerdy content like this.

@naraoia4450

4 жыл бұрын

I don't know about "not very good at it" - aren't all the mixed circles we see in the series really, really inexperienced in that regard? What springs to mind is Rand at the cleansing, I think that was literally the first time he linked with anyone. (Which always struck me as a bit foolhardy, at least a few practice sessions would have been the smart way to go about it, but I guess his plot armour extended far enough not to make that lack of practice explode in his face...)

@Arezoo298195

4 жыл бұрын

grimisnotglum yeah but maybe his Lews Therin side had more practice!

@naraoia4450

4 жыл бұрын

@@Arezoo298195 Fair point, though I didn't get the impression that he was remembering it from the text. He was all kinds of clumsy if memory serves :)

@Arezoo298195

4 жыл бұрын

grimisnotglum I meant that as a joke. I couldn’t come up with a reason and this is one of those times where just saying ‘because taveren’ doesn’t work. 😅

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Arezoo Kashefipour - That’s a good target for a Part 2 of this episode. Thanks!

I think it's important to remember that the basic metaphysics seem to draw on Taoism and Buddhism. That means that any separations or divisions between anything are illusory. Including the powers. And any notion of a soul. The tales and adventures we hear about in the story, therefore, are all human projections that are being reified by minds. If so the wheel of time is the same as Samsara. And if you look up the symbol of Buddhism, it's a wheel. This begins to explain the epilogue, where Rand lights his pipe with apparently no use of any "power". Perhaps he's gone beyond the need for those illusions and become enlightened.

It's been a couple years since I've read the series so I may be really off here, but I always thought of the One Power/True Power/Mashadar as grounded in science rather than magic. I mean, anything that we can't breakdown/fully understand is magic but what I imagined is that in an age even before the Age of Legends, an age closer to the one that we live in now there might've been physicists that were chasing an unexplained energy/fundamental force - maybe dark energy or something in that realm. As they learned to tap into this energy, they began to harness more and more of it which eventually led to the Age of Legends where civilization was really at its peak. And while human greed is infinite there were limitations to this energy and so they chased another form of energy that they understood less but they believed might not have these same limitations - that ultimately was the Dark One. This random speculative theory is why I always used to read these books as sci-fi rather than just fantasy. Even without incorporating our current universe into the narrative I always used to enjoy the cautionary tale it told of unchecked consumption in a world with finite resources and a cost to everything. This was a great video as always, thanks guys!

@Arezoo298195

4 жыл бұрын

Sachal Malick that was my thought when reading too.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Sachal Malick - Great comment. For sure, One Power & True Power are grounded in science. And technically, which I may not have made clear, any soft magic system within the Wheel...would technically be at some level a product of the Wheel, which is driven by the One Power. So, you could say that, even if Mashadar were a soft magic system...it was still accounted for and enabled by a scientific foundation. If that makes sense. Thanks!

I always thought that healing of the severing was incomplete when being done between the same genders, ie. to be healed fully a man needed to be healed by a woman (Logain/Nynaeve) and the opposite (Damer/Aes Sedai). The wiki says it's confirmed by RJ, but I don't know how true that is. I don't know how much that plays in with what you were talking about increasing the strength in the One Power, but on the other hand it always seemed to me like RJ was hinting at it being possible to heal being burned out with a male/female circle. This is kind of supported by the fact that Nynaeve tried to heal Setalle Anan and failed.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Pedja Stankovic - Yup, that’s accurate, regarding opposite power being key for healing stilling. We didn’t really cover that, but I agree with the suggestion that what you suggested is key to healing those who have burned out. I think the recreation of the “bridge”, or potentially a transplant, would be very difficult, but I believer it is possible. Thanks for commenting!

@talmanes4589

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheDustyWheel Interesting that you use the word transplant. I have always looked at being stilled vs being burnt out as like having your arm broken vs having it cut off. A broken arm can be healed but if your arm is cut off the only option is a prosthetic or transplant if you will. We have no evidence that that such a thing exists but it COULD exist, though perhaps not through the one power.. As for augmenting someone's power or giving it to someone who never had it, that might be possible, though again, perhaps not through the one power. I remember an old theory that Lanfear was as strong as a woman could be because of a wish from the Finns. So maybe it's possible but only by means other than channeling. It fits in with them draining the ability from Moiraine and Lanfear while they are trapped there. It's also possible the caller was correct and that there is a upper limit attached to your body/soul and you can only go down not up. The only other thing I have to add is in regards to Isam. We know that he desired the ability to channel but the DO couldn't give him that. But the DO is able to give him the ability to use Tel'aran'rhiod. I would love to know HOW but it implies that at least the True Power is not able to give someone the ability to channel and I would suspect the One Power cannot either.

Man, I wish I had been able to view this live and call in! You were talking about the “oneness”, and how the the people who first learned to Channel may have accessed it at the end of the first age using the “oneness”. RJ very deliberately likened the “oneness” and Tam Al’Thor’s “flame and the void”, which is very akin to how focus is taught in the martial arts. Also; the whole saidin/saidar balance of power between genders is very parallel to how Qi (chi) is worked with in Tai-Chi and Qi-Gong for example. So perhaps we are closer to the beginning of the second age than we though... if you need any evidence, watch any videos of the demonstrations of the Shaolin Monks, and what they can do with Qi! And that’s my TED Talk! Cheers! ^_^

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Jordan Penman - I like that Jordan suggest all of this...almost. We’ll do more episodes like this! Thanks for leaving a note.

You guys, the Dark One's udders just made my day... :'D

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

grimisnotglum - That was great. I love it when the Live shows deliver!

I always thought it was called the true power from the dark ones side kind of like how followers of the dark refer to the forsaken as the chosen but to everyone else they are the forsaken. I just thought that virtually no one that follows the light knows of the true power.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Charlie TenEyck - True, it could be that as long as it comes from the Forsaken, there won’t be any confusion. Great point.

Love your streams ! Thankyou !!

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Amanda of House Robinson - No, thank you for watching!!

Starts at 3:25

I've always viewed burning out as similar to losing a limb. You can heal the stump, but you cannot regrow it. Stilling/Severing is more akin to a cut, you can stitch it back together.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Capn Wahle - Yeah, it would have to be a transplant, or “prosthetic” of some sort, in a metaphysical sense.

I feel like the handicap of having "augmented" channeling would be that you would augment your link, but without augmenting your body, channelling that much power would just kill you. Physically burn you up. The "burnout" that occurs when someone channels too much, could be like a fuse in a plug, and they get burned out to stop them dying.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Ellam Fox - I could buy that. Maybe Augmentation was attempted and led to burning out too often. Some black market surgery; fake marketing promises in the Age of Legends. It seems like it’s easy to do the opposite and almost neuter a channelers ability to channel semi-permanently.

@Ellamental21

4 жыл бұрын

The Dusty Wheel my point being that the augment would actually reduce the amount of people burning out instead of dying and blowing up due to channelling too much of the power

Other powers off hand that just came to mind. Mat's luck. The power of the 3 ta'veren where they each have a swirl of colors and can essentially see scenes in their mind of the other ta'veren.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Brandon S - The Ta’veren connection is an interesting one. I’d like to tackle that in a show, too. Need to come back and do a Part 2 to this episode.

Also love and support for this channel from South Africa 💪

had to google alternative meanings for taint... Guess I learnt something new :)

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

thehoogard - Lol. Hilarious. You’re welcome? :)

Something we missed during this stream (I was watching live but don't remember it being brought up) was the power of the Horn of Valere? It certainly doesn't seem to be a ter'angreal though that is the closest in world comparison we can make since I believe it's canon for it to exist before the AoL.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Brandon S - The Horn of Valere is such an oddity. From the 1st Age, but seems most likely to either be from a Parallel World, or from the same group who creates Portal Stones. Jordan said, “For Randshammer, you might say that mortals made the Horn of Valere. They certainly weren't gods.” His phrasing “might say mortals” suggests to me that they were not of our world. Maybe there is a Hero who broke the precepts...and created the Horn?

My spin off would be Mat's Adventures in Shara.

@naraoia4450

4 жыл бұрын

TBH I'm just dying for a series of adventures centred on a bunch of Warders just being friends and getting themselves and their bosses through shit together. I imagine that many stories involving Aes Sedai would sound quite different from their perspective...

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

JoelJoel321 - That would be interesting (and I’m wondering if you meant Seanchan?), but Mat in Shara would be wild too.

@JoelJoel321

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDustyWheel I did mean Shara. I feel we got to know a fair bit about the Seanchan, but Shara is still almost completely unexplored for the reader.

What is the name of the song that this episode ends on? After the "Welcome to the Dusty Wheel" lyrics.

So in discussing the soul-body bridge I began to wonder about “turning” channelers to the shadow; does turning affect the body or the soul? - power level didn’t seem to change when turned - it seemed like the soul was replaced in turned individuals, something behind their eyes was different; does this mean that the replaced souls could also channel?

Sweet video guys, hope I can catch the next one live! They’ll definitely have to simplify the magic names. No way first timers are going to keep track of the one power, true power, and one source 🤣🤣 That’s interesting about the source and power being more like quantum physics than traditional physics. Isn’t one of the primary characteristics of quantum physics that something can be in two places, or even potentially be two different things at once? If that’s the case, and if the source is infused through all of the pattern, throughout every age, in every turning, could that mean that all of the ages and all of the turnings of the wheel exist at the same time, simultaneously? For those going through the pattern, it would be as though they were on the outer edge of the wheel, each age and each turning leading directly into the next, but the turnings would also exist at the very center of the wheel, at the source, where each turning occurred simultaneously. It would help show how the dark one could destroy the wheel if he broke out, because through the source he would have access to all of the turnings. It would also support that he could never really break out, because each of the infinite incarnations of the Dragon would be sealing him at the same time.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Dangerzone Pete - it would be fun to cover the idea of trapped in one trapped in all, free in one, free in all, plus quantum, plus Dark One’s prison. Thanks for your thoughts! And for watching!

Jennifer and I started watching the original Star Trek series (her first time) and I noticed the First Channeler... Season 1 ep 3 “Where No Man Has Gone Before”... check it out! So once we get to the 23rd century, we unlock the secret of channeling and then the Second Age will begin!

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Rob Christianson - Is this another live show we have to do? Break down Season 1 Episode 3, OG Star Trek...Live!

Regarding powering up a channelers strength ability... I think through research anything is capable if it pleases the light... but I have another question. If ability is attached to a soul then why are there so little channelers with great ability during the time of the story? Shouldn’t their souls have been reborn already? Or is the creator saving them in a storage locker for later use, when channelers with great ability would be more responsible? Are there some souls for one age and others for another? If not there should be far more powerful channelers all over the place. Because even if they “culled” the numbers out of the population, ability/strength would have remained if it is connected to the soul? The Creator might be saving them since there are more dead than there is living (or is there?) Thanks for the show! Loving it.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Call Me Nakomi - Thanks! This brings up an unanswered question: are souls independent of The Wheel, or are they created by The Wheel? Can The Wheel modify the talents of a soul between rebirths? Can The Wheel create new souls?

@callmenakomi3655

4 жыл бұрын

The Dusty Wheel - Well I’m not sure how souls are created or by whom (I couldn’t begin to speculate on that), but I feel that the Wheel distributes talents depending on what the Pattern needs to give that Age a chance of survival. The individual that is placed at this point has to be able to do X, Y, Z. Can new souls be created? Possible. I feel Perrin and Mat might have been new souls. The Dragon has obviously been reborn several times, but the Heroes of the Horn didn’t seem as though they remembered them from other turnings. And Beside the prophecies, there are no other historical mention of them. I feel talents can be adjusted in a soul for each life, but things like bravery and strength of inner spirit is pasted on through the soul. Thanks for the chat Dusty Wheel! I hope one day to catch you guys when I have time to call in.

I would love to hear about “purity” and what it is

I think in terms of augmenting channeling to increase one's power could be done but there would be a physical limit. So a person's physical body cannot channel more than a certain amount of the one power without being destroyed. I also think through trail and error they must have figured this out in the age of legends, hence the creation of angreal and sa'angreal. So that's why we hear sometimes in the books that men have a slight advantage in strength in the one power over women. Jordan continues his theme of balance here by giving women an advantage in dexterity in the weaving of the one power.

Also, I always felt like the elements you were stronger in were a reflection of your personality. Egwene is is strangely strong in earth for a woman, and it also so solid and unbudging that she broke a forsaken’s mind, and wouldn’t budge for being tortured in the white tower.

Thoughts on surgically implanted angreal?

I actually think that the wolves are mistaken about their death in the wolf dream being truly permanent, mostly because having a mechanic for deleting souls permanently from the pattern would result in them running out eventually, since we know there have been infinite turnings of the Wheel already.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

A76noname - Heroes of the Horn seems to believe the same though, that they can be destroyed. If Heroes could just interfere and have zero downsides, like they would be destroyed and then return again, they would break the precepts all the time wouldn’t they?

Taint, OMG, 😱 never thought about that

An interesting idea involving Aran'gar channeling Sadin in a female body. Could the body he was reborn in be "XXY"? People born XXY look female but have a Y chromosome. Another possibility is the body was male and had "Plastic Surgery" like effects to look female. I think that is even more possible since the body was hyper-feminine with exaggerated proportions.

Saidar was used to fully restore the ability to channel in men. Saidin was used to fully restore the ability to channel in women.

The one person or "soul" we know is reborn (in normal way) is Rand and for him I think we know that is equal to Lews Therin Telamon in strength of the one power. So i need more evidence to the statement (strength of the one power depends on dna(body)) and not of the "soul" or some combination of both.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Krasimir Harizanov - The quote came from Brandon and isn’t related to the body. Basically, it was the notion that strength didn’t have to be the same in each rebirth. It could be variable, based on the Wheel, like being able to learn versus having the spark being variable. But that’s not a direct quote. I thought we had a direct quote from Jordan but I haven’t been able to track it down.

One theory I have unrelated to the topic of this video is that elayne was about to give birth to Brigita at the end of the series

If you overcome the darkness within, you have true power ;)

@TheDustyWheel

3 жыл бұрын

Hehe. Nice.

We know during the age of legends they were actively seeking ways to become stronger and channel more power. That’s why the bore was made. We have the strongest channelers from that age that we’re willing to do lots of shady things and they were not able to gain more power except through ter’, sa’, and angreal. I’m not sure that it would be possible to permanently increase power.

What's strange about the dark one being able to control how much power he lets people use.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

terry hampso - It’s the mechanism seeming to be manual that’s odd to me. How do they request greater access? Does he set it and forget it? Is it “dynamic” on his level of trust?

the oneness is the old name for the void. it was spoken by lanfear

The man created a universe based on a wheel where all the ages repeat, but he didn't want to go to the age of legends because the ending is inevitable? That seems weird.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Jared Poulter - Now that you say it...haha. Clearly, he passed on some Ages he thought made for boring stories. :)

As far as augmenting the ability to channel… is that not what angreal are for? It’s like an enhancement for someone perhaps like a robotic limb would be.

Nynaeve used only Fire and Spirit to Heal Logain, not all of them.

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Now I need to go back and read that section, I knew it was more than spirit, but it sounds like I incorrectly stated all. Thanks! Do you mind posting the quote if you have it handy?

@cagrakkus7319

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheDustyWheel Chapter itself is named "Fire and Spirit". "Something about that cut . . . if it was bridged with Fire and Spirit, so . . . " "Spirit and Fire to mend the break, and . . ."

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Çağrı Akkuş - It says later, as it she had before, “Saidar filled her, and she channeled as she had with Logain, blending all of the Five Powers.” Looks like she uses all to perhaps find the cut, identify the cut perhaps, and the mending is then done with fire and spirit. So all were necessary for inspection, and then only the two for mending. Thanks for calling my attention to this!

@cagrakkus7319

4 жыл бұрын

The Dusty Wheel yeah she uses all five for Delving

@TheDustyWheel

4 жыл бұрын

Çağrı Akkuş - Fire and spirit is an interesting combination to use to mend. I wish one of us would have asked Jordan why that combination.

Why can’t Mistress Anan use the a’dam?

@derekwahle

4 жыл бұрын

The a'dam creates a link that forces control of one channeler on another. So if you can't channel, naturally you cannot link.

the only ones who channel the true power is who ever the dark one wants to weld it , you dont need the spark i believe saa has something to do with it

I figured that the opposite gender had to do heal stilling/gentling to bring them back to their full power and that is why Logain came back fully, but Siuane was not as powerful.

@jaredpoulter6762

4 жыл бұрын

You can ignore this. I just read Pedja's comment below.

Do you think Robert Jordan knew about people who are intersex? The Aeil are somewhat based off of Mongolian, and Plains Amerindians. The Ameridians have the a term called 2spirit. In Mandarin Chinese we call these ppl Yin Yang ppl. Those whose souls contain equal Yin and yang energies Mokgadi Caster Semenya was assigned female at birth but was disqualified from the womens Olympic tryouts for having too much testorsterone. How do you think somthing like that would influence the raising of the Amyrlin Seat ceremony ? With the growing awareness of Trans, non binary and intersex individuals how do you think RJ's 90's gender essentialism will be changed in the upcoming tv show?

Alright, nerd time. Here’s what I understand about quantum mechanics. So we have various particles, leptons and bosons and such. Each particle has a corresponding “field,” that’s everywhere. Fields have values, which are just mathematical representations of the energy present at any point in the field. In a vacuum, it’s 0, or close to it. When you have a higher energy value, that’s a particle. Particles can exist in a superstate, meaning they can have a probability of being in multiple states at the same time. When you actually take a measurement and observe the particle, it exists in one place and no longer in the others. This causes observation problems in the physics world but we’re gonna gloss over that for the purposes of fantasy. So if we’re looking at the power on a quantum level, that means there are probably fields for the various powers. Channeling could possibly be the ability to manipulate the every levels of points on those fields, or even the probability of the values of the fields. It can get crazy weird and deep if we keep going down this road

@chrisallen3966

4 жыл бұрын

*energy, not every. Fat fingers

DUDE! DONT SAY THE NAME!