23:18 He was not just motionless. "Then as quickly as he could he cut away the binding cords and laid his head upon Frodo’s breast and to his mouth, but no stir of life could he find, nor feel the faintest flutter of the heart. Often he chafed his master’s hands and feet, and touched his brow, but all were cold."

@TolkienLorePodcast

5 күн бұрын

Fair point, he did check his breath and heart. Been too long since I read that I guess lol

@Spielkalb-von-Sparta

8 сағат бұрын

_He[=Sam] stooped. Very gently he undid the clasp at the neck and slipped his hand inside Frodo's Tunic; then with his other hand raising the head, he kissed the cold forehead, and softly drew the chain over it. And then the head lay quietly back again in rest. No change came over the still face, and by that more than by all other tokens Sam was convinced at last that Frodo had died and lied aside the Quest._ LotR, Chapter *The Choices Of Master Samwise* I think it's no coincident that Tolkien called the servant the master in the title of this chapter.

My dear melon Geek: One day before I get too old (I'm already pushing 70), we really must meet and do nothing but visit about Tolkien for whatever the length a good hobbit visit would be. Your insight is so clear and you articulate very well things that I have noticed in my many readings of the LotR. May you always be blessed with such insight, my melon. Namarie.

Interesting topic, thanks for bringing this up! I've re-read those passages in the books for the first time since like ~25 years to check those out. Both choices were crucial but quite different how they were described. Aragorn had pretty much made up his mind _before_ Frodo took the decision to leave on its own, caused by Boromir's outrage. When they discussed the possibility Frodo would decide to go straight to Mordor in his absence, he said: *"It would be indeed a betrayal, if we all left him," said Aragorn, "but if he goes east, then all need not go with him; nor do I think that all should. That venture is desperate: as much so for eight as for three or two, or one alone. If you would let me choose, then I should appoint three companions: Sam, who could not bear it otherwise; and Gimli; and myself."* The conjunctive "If you let me choose…" isn't politeness, it's foreshadowing. After all the mess with the Orcs, Boromir's death and departure we read following decision: *"Let me think!" said Aragorn. "And now may I make a right choice and change the fate of this unhappy day!" He stood silent for a moment. "I will follow the Orcs," he said at last. "I would have guided Frodo to Mordor and gone to with him to the end; but if I seek him now in the wilderness, I must abandon the captives to torment and and death. My heart speaks clearly at last: the fate of the Bearer is in my hands no longer. The Company has played its part."* Immediately before this we can read Aragorn's motif for his decision: *"He [=Frodo] fled, certainly," said Aragorn, "but not, I think, from Orcs." What he thought was the cause of Frodo's sudden resolve and sudden flight Aragorn did not say. The last words of Boromir he long kept secret.* The last words of Boromir were his confession to having tried to take the ring from Frodo by force. This leads me to the interpretation that Aragorn feared that others might come into the influence of the ring - maybe even himself. Aragorn respected that the decision is ultimately in Frodo's hands, and it was clear that his choice was to leave them behind, that's what he meant by saying "the fate of the Bearer is in my hand no longer". Sam's choice is a completely different cup of tea and needs another posting on its own. What do you think of my interpretation of Aragorn's choice?

Both Aragorn and Sam made the correct choice, even discounting hindsight and the contruct of a planned novel (presuming Tolkien had planned that far). The right choice for Aragorn was to pursue the 'immediate' threat to Merry and Pippin. The right choice for Sam was not to 'give up' Frodo's quest that he knew so much hinged upon; if he thought Frodo was possibly alive he wouldn't have left him.

WHile I prefer the Tolkien Aragorn much more over the Jackson Aragorn (adaptation limiations aside), I have noticed that Viggo Mortensen's portrayal appealled to a lot of people that had not read the book before watching the films. Many said they really bought into the movie when Aragorn appears at Bree and later fights the Nazgul with fire on Weathertop.

I always really enjoy these analysis and comparison videos.

When the company runs off into the woods, the text describes it as a madness overcoming them. Was that because they had been in the company of the ring for so long that when they realize it is gone or could be gone, they have a sudden hunger for it that they didn't realize was there all along?

@TolkienLorePodcast

4 күн бұрын

Could be that, or as someone else suggested the influence of Saruman, or it could be just an expression. Another example of how Tolkien makes things more interesting by NOT explaining lol.

*The Choices Of Master Samwise* Aragorn was aware his choice was coming, miles ahead the fellowship discussed it, even before the mess with the Orcs and the death of Boromir. Sam, on the other hand, was caught in the middle in the events and was forced to make a decision on his own. Of course he checked Frodo's breath and heartbeat after untangling him from Shelpb's webs. Since nobody else was there Tolkien conveys us Sam's inner conflict by the means of an _inner dialogue._ Is this only Sam talking to himself or is there maybe a divine force included which convinces him to taking the ring? You see, in his fight against Shelob he already had divine help, he spoke words in a language he didn't know to unleash the powers of Galadriel's Phial to force the ugly spider into a retreat. I'm not sure of it, taking the ring was definitely the best practical decision Sam could make in this situation. But the way this inner dialogue is worded I suspect he had some divine help, take a look at this: *"What? Me, alone, go to the Crack of Doom and all?" He quailed still, but the resolve grew. "What? **_Me_** taking the Ring for **_him?_** The Council gave it to him."* *But the answer came at once: "And the Council gave him companions, so that the errand should not fail. And you are the last of all the Company. The errand must not fail."* "But the answer came at once…" On Sam's own reflections or by divine intuition? What do you think?

You could argue that Sam taking the ring but not abandoning Frodo is him hedging his bets.

Another great analysis 👏🏼

book Aragon has plenty of self-doubt long before - on their way from Bree to Rivendell almost every 2nd statement from him is how he had made a(-nother) mistake and failed everybody and their mission...

@brovold72

5 күн бұрын

Right, though he never doubts the mission itself, or that his own Destiny is bound up in it.

I have 2 questions the 1st 1 has to do with The fact that in the book Aragorn Has the Blade reforged after setting out From Where is The movie he doesn't get it Until he chooses to take the paths of the dead Return of the king Change the movies Airborne To have the blade Has it in the book My second question is What Power level does the bellrog Have when Gandalf is fighting it is it only at like 20% Especially in the Movie And a little bit in the book We're supposed to breathe Yes Stronger than the bellrog

@Jeremyhughes86

6 күн бұрын

your wording makes this difficult to understand so, I can't really answer the question about the sword without clarification. that said, the Balrog and Gandalf as well as the other four Istari (wizards) are all Maiar. they are divine beings. the Balrog having been corrupted my Melkor long ago, and the wizards having been cloaked in the flesh of men and having their own powers limited. there is no indication in the fight either party is holding back. so, while there is no direct power scaling...the Balrog wasn't going at 20% power. this was a battle between divine beings, that lasted several days. at the end, to kill the Balrog, Gandalf himself died for the effort. he was later revived with a greater measure of his restrained power unlocked. had the Balrog been holding back by any measure the fight would not have lasted for days, and the Balrog would have lived. so while no direct measure of power is ever given one should assume that while he was "The Grey" Gandalf was roughly equal to the Balrog, and as "The White" he was more powerful.

@brovold72

5 күн бұрын

@@Jeremyhughes86Also, in the Silmarillion, Balrogs are killed by great elves -- though self-sacrifice is required in those cases also. It's not that balrogs are weaker than we might think, but that, in this world, some "people" (human or otherwise) are FAR Greater than regular warriors.

@brovold72

5 күн бұрын

In the book, the shards of Narsil, which Aragorn has long carried on his person, are reforged in Rivendell before the Fellowship sets out.

@brovold72

5 күн бұрын

I get the sense, though it's not explicitly laid out, that the panic that overtakes the company when the orcs attack is, in part, some devilry of Saruman. This seems more plausible in light of looking back from the next book, when Aragorn describes some Will that seems to fatigue him but lends strength to the band of Uruk-Hai that they're pursuing. Legolas concurs.

@Spielkalb-von-Sparta

7 сағат бұрын

@@brovold72 Just for the record, in the books the panic overcomes the fellowship _before_ the orcs attack.

Do you think movie screenwriters try to adapt the book to make the story better, or do they adjust according to time constraints in order to make a good adaptation? Philipa makes it clear in the extended editions that she thinks some of Tolkiens work does not adapt to the story. I think it is a good conversation if you break down why they made choices to change the story based on how they wanted to present a movie. Great channel! Thanks for your dedication :)

@TolkienLorePodcast

5 күн бұрын

I think there are a lot of things that go into that. Time is certainly a big thing because almost all books have too much material to adapt to a movie. Also I think some story elements get changed because screenwriters think the original won’t do well for whatever reason.

@laurenbernstein621

4 күн бұрын

It's never going to happen but I'd love to see LOTR adapted as a 6-season TV show/miniseries

@telimektarband3615

3 күн бұрын

@ laurenbernstein621 I guess it could happen, but who would it be, and would they be Tolkien purists creating an in-depth world of Middle Earth, or would they be another movie producer that mirrors what we see with Rings of Power? Adaptions can never capture the depths of the books, but there is time to create a better adaptation that is better than what we have, and a 6 season series would be a great way to achieve this.

Cool.

First comment?