I am a survivor from a marriage in which horrendous abuse was supported by my church. I was told by church leaders that if I did not fulfill my husband's wishes, I would go to hell; and because I was raised to submit without question to authority I believed it. I only left him and the church because I almost killed myself. It has been a very long road to learning to think for myself and I am not even near the end of that road. Thank you very much for this topic. It's important.

I am an atheist who happens to be a black female. I remember a few years ago for my birthday the ladies at my mother's church (of which I was an unwilling member) gave me this book that was sort of like "A Christian Woman's Guide To The Bible". I immediately took it home, gave it the benefit of the doubt and thumbed through it for a few minutes; it's been sitting on the top shelf of my closet, untouched, ever since. I think I'll be making an offering to my garbage bin tonight lol.

@afroatheist-isnowafroantit6154

6 жыл бұрын

CxHxRxIxSxTxIxAxN Good for you! I still have my "Bible," from highschool! It is sitting up in my closet, so cute. I use it to attack religious people.

@starmelodyelizabethb7380

6 жыл бұрын

I'm a secretly non believer who hates anything to read the Bible never enjoys Sabbath and all the biblical crap I was trapped with. I definitely want to burn my bibled

@TheMilitantMazdakite

Жыл бұрын

Hey. Zoroastrian here. I feel the need to introduce to the Good Religion, which is a feminist religion. Yasna 35.6 "As both man and women know the duty (to God), so let him, or her, declare it and fulfill it, O Ahura Mazda (God)"

@tehspamgozehere

2 ай бұрын

As tempting as it is to ditch any objectionable book, it might be worth hanging onto. Especially if the book falls out of favour. As a "How not to do it" reminder sort of thing. Difficult issue, I know. And at the risk of touching a nerve, consider the so-called 'slave Bible'. From what I understand, it's next to impossible to find a copy of it due to most being burned or otherwise destroyed. Which makes it difficult to obtain for research or to even confirm or deny some of the rumours going around about it. On the other hand if the thing is still being printed and handed out everywhere, hoik the thing in the bin and forget about it. Given that I'm typing this eleven years later, I can't help but wonder what you decided to do with the thing.

So basically what she said was "We ignore all the bad stuff in the bible and then just interpret the rest of it to fit our personal views." In other words you're about as Christian as I am. If the Bible doesn't mean what the words on the page mean, that it doesn't mean ANYTHING as we can all interpret as we like to fit our views this way.

I'm a Black female atheist, along with my black sister-in-law and my black mother. Yes! We do exist :) lol

@afroatheist-isnowafroantit6154

6 жыл бұрын

Kay Indigo I am one, too! Be proud, my sister!

I love it when he imitates the Christian preachers XD it's so spot on and it leaves me laughing every time

im pagan and women are by no means second to men. i can teach, start my own coven, and use my mind like a man. this is one of the major reasons i couldnt never be Christian.

@TheaterRaven

6 жыл бұрын

Indeed. Blessed be, sister. )O(

@afroatheist-isnowafroantit6154

6 жыл бұрын

Awesome. And, not like a Man. Like a woman! Inspiration!

Wow, my crazy church taught me that my sexuality was cursed by God. There was also a lot of sexual abuse in my church as well. We learned that it was God's will. This created in me severe PTSD. However, I started finding healing when I broke away from Christiananity all together. Think you so much for making this podcast.

lilith was a pagan goddess. the church demonized her in order to keep women in check.

@imnotreal9554

7 жыл бұрын

Martha Camejo I named my daughter after her because she was such a strong character

When i was a kid, on our drives to church there was a man who used to walk, when my dad stopped and asked him for a ride, he accepted. When my mom drove without my dad, he refused. When asked by my dad why he refused a ride from my mom, he said because she was a woman. At that time, women also could not sit in the front row of the church.

The woman pastor is wrong when she says that this is the first time women were educated. Egyptian women held property and were educated. Do some research.

@AutoTerminator

6 жыл бұрын

she meant in that time and place.

@metatron478

4 жыл бұрын

@@AutoTerminator in that time and place, Egyptian women could own property. They had more rights than early hebrew women.

@xXdArKcAnDiXx

4 жыл бұрын

Viking woman could be warriors i think. And were respected

@tehspamgozehere

2 ай бұрын

If she's just talking about in that region and that society (Middle east or whichever label is used now) then she's accurate enough for the discussion. Your point and that of the viking women being educated etc is well made however, and the pastor ideally should have given the region or society based qualifier as part of her statement if that IS what she meant. Clear communication is important. And often awkward.

that girl's story who was claimed to be schizophrenic for having sex reminded me to the times when I was still in church, they kept telling me that couples who had sex before marriage had a worse relationship than those who remained 'pure' until marriage. nobody ever questioned these claims, but actually nothing proved it. 😄

I've faced this before from a ignorant girl in gym class. She will randomly get into arguments with people who haven't said a word to her but are doing anything such as:PDA,swearing,or even making adult jokes.One day she started on a good friend of mine, myself, and my boyfriend.I and him where hugging and such.She spouted "I'm going to be a minister!" during her nails on chalk board arguing. I told her of the bibles word and she shouted "LIES". I calmly said "Read your bible my dear."

@tehspamgozehere

2 ай бұрын

I'd upgrade that to 'study' rather than just read. As Seth has said, many believers have 'read' their bible and not processed the information. There's also the famous quotes and lines about the road to atheism being litered with bibles read cover to cover, or atheists who know the bible better than the believers, or an atheist will read the bible whereas a believer has it read for/to them, and of course the best one "How to make an atheist: Have them read the bible." I think the real trick though is having the person actually process the information without someone else 'interpreting' it for them, or while not wearing the God Glasses that make everything mean the opposite of what it should.

If you are menstruating and you feel unclean, I say: take a shower. No need for exile. But I guess I'm not as wise as God.

this is quite possibly the first time i've ever heard a man talk about women in such a positive way and truly mean it. usually, in my experience, whenever men listen to what women have to say, it's in a "isn't that sweet, she has an opinion. now let the men talk, mmmkay?" a lot of the time it feels like men say they support women's achievements but it seems hollow. and i completely agree with women who take the feminist thing to the man-hating extreme. it's just polarization of the problem.

wow what a pretzel the lady pastor turned out.

Most of the very religious people I know are women and I honestly don't understand. Thankfully, I'm not.

Women shouldn't silent. I like hearing them speak. How dare the Bible try to tell them to be quiet.

@jenniferbrewer5370

7 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Chris.

@OCDTraci

5 жыл бұрын

I'm a woman, and I like you too, Chris :)

@JSAnstock

5 жыл бұрын

While I agree that women should NOT be silent, is it not more important that NONE of us who oppose this oppression are not silent? Forget gender, oppose all religions which subjugate those who don't buy into their lies

I think there are still some cases where men and women aren't equal and as a feminist I fight for that. I don't hate men nor do I want to be superior. I want to be equal. But I live in a very conservative religious area so I am still fighting.

Its so awesome you are doing shows as often as you are now. Thanks a bunch these vids are actually important to me to keep up hope. I live in an extremely religious community. We have 5 churches in our town. 1 gas station, 2 liquor stores and 1 bar. Thats it. Well a school of course as well.

I cannot understand those people like this woman pastor who knows that the bible contains horrible acts and bad morals, but still rationalize it and still believe it's the word of god. Everything makes sense in the scripture if you just accept that the scripture is written by ancient tribes to codify their morals and laws in it. No divine intervention, no inspiration by any gods at all. The god part is just invented to give the scripture authority. I think it's because as children they were indoctrinated that there is a god and the bible is the word of god. So even if they accept and know that the bible have bad parts, their feelings can just not accept the possibility that there is no god at all. And they are wasting all their live making sense of those conflicts.

The fact that there is and old testament and a new one confuses me, isn't god timeless? Isn't god supose to be all knowing and all seeing? Then why do even the apologists say "But the scriptiors are written in another time" If this is the word of god, then why does time matter?

I feel sorry for religious people for the hurdles they must need to jump to validate their religions.

Not all feminists do that. I just want to be treated with equality, dignity, and respect. That is hard to come by in my conservative home town.

Of course it's a piece of history, just like the The Iliad, Harry Potter, The Odyssey, Peter Pan, The Koran, and every other large tale. Nobody says it wasn't. But it's a piece of fantasy literature that was written in history, not a documentation OF history.

For those that don't know a shekel is a weight equal to 11 grams, so 50 shekels are equal to 550 grams or 19.4 ounces of silver. Today that's worth $336.98, so that's what a virgin girl is worth to the Bible.

@wuxiagamescentral

9 жыл бұрын

A virgin wife who becomes essentially my property for less than am Xbox 1 you got a deal!

@eddypasatrino2039

9 жыл бұрын

LordDragul Smitty And you get to choose ! Imagine out of 10,000 you could get a pretty damn good deal at that ! ( Sarcasm )

@666Maeglin

9 жыл бұрын

Michael Cox Seems the value of women goes down.. today they cost $297.07. dollars.

@michaelcox9855

9 жыл бұрын

Sad isn't it?

@nathanbill6911

9 жыл бұрын

That's a lot of cheese...

"they love their women. their wives, moms, daughters" That's the problem. They think of women as possessions, they only care about women who they are attached to. You can love someone without seeing them as human, and that is (by and large) how a lot of religious men think. By this common line of reasoning revealed by your (and many others') language, a man can be a man, but a women is a wife, mother, or daughter, she exists only in her relationships to others.

@tehspamgozehere

2 ай бұрын

The posessive twist on the language has always irked me. "My mother. My father. My friend. My this, my that." Our language is structured so that it's difficult to avoid. It'd be nice if we could move away from the "Me" part while still being able to identify the parties involved. I'm also reminded of the "When talking to your atheist" or "When I witness to my atheists" I've heard some preacher types use. Now that irks me. Has much stronger overtones to it than "People that I know who are atheists" or even just "people I know" or "atheists I talk with". English is a mess and is getting messier. We can do without this, and other similar things. Much like the gender specific pronouns. Amusingly, we used to have gender neutral pronouns but moved away from them. Then invented new ones. Then didn't use them. Now we're inventing new new ones. I have to admit I'd feel silly saying 'thee' and 'thine' and 'ye' and so on though.

Several points: Rome never persecuted Christians as Christians but as tax evaders. Rome didn't give a hoot about religion (that was for women and children). Sparta educated women. Both girls and boys went to state schools, the boys boarded while the girls were day students. Spartan women were encouraged to exercise, to be fit and healthy and weren't permitted to be married until age 20. Please note, Sparta worshipped Pallas Athena and the Right to Rule came through the Queen - which is why they had to get kidnapped Helen back. (Menelaus would have had to step down as king if he didn't get Helen back.) The Bronze Age wasn't a monolith. Lilith was told by God that she could return to Eden if she would submit to Adam. If she'd refuse, He'd give her whatever lifestyle she chose. Lilith retired to the beach and lived a happy life screwing whomever she pleased.

I love these videos. Thanks, TheThinkingAtheist!

a certain female pastor has no idea of what the real history is of the time the bible was written. it's really kind of ridiculous to listen to her.

Very honest person that Kelly. That pastor-lady? Glad you included that. It's something I absolutely love about your podcasts. Actual input from both sides, eventho you dont see eye to eye with them.

People in conflict and denial about their own nature often project their own perceived shortcomings onto others.

You always pick such great, interesting subjects that everyone has something to say about. I look forward to more of these podcasts. ROFL at the "men's rooms" bit.

You sir have a dedicated listener! awesome podcast!

Thank you for this. I'm finally thinking critically about the beliefs I was brought up with.

I'm from Lithuania too. I agree with what he said. Bible was probably written not just to control women, but all people controlled by kings and rulers.

I know I'm a little late to the party (I just discovered this podcast), but I grew up Catholic and in a very religious small town. After I left Catholic school and started going to the local public school, some teachers there would teach science from the secular textbook and then say "Well, here's what God says..." Being fresh out of Catholic school, I didn't see a problem with it at the time, but I think I've always known deep down inside that I wasn't really dedicated to religion at all (I took the textbook's word over God's). Then, when I got into high school, myself and a group of about 4 other girls sat at a lunch table of about 2 boys. One of the boys was deeply religious and said to a table that where a majority of women were seated (including myself) that he and his family (presumably his mother as well) that women shouldn't have leadership positions either in the church or in government. Specifically he said that a woman shouldn't be president. I was completely astounded that he would have the nerve to say something like that to a group of women. Realizing how misogynistic, patriarchal, and sexist religion can be was one of the main reasons I decided to quit it entirely. I didn't see the point in dedicating any energy whatsoever to a belief system that defines women as lesser than. For me, it also ties in with ignorance about what the world is actually like (physically and mentally, women and men aren't that different), and leaving Catholic school and going to a secular school really opened my eyes to that. I had classmates that would refuse to even learn what evolution is in an academic setting (disrupting class in the process) and it just appalled me.

Great topic!

She disappeared because she knew you were right and had nothing to come back at you with.

My grandmother was a United Methodist minister. An incredible and loving woman. Although it was more accepted in the Methodist church for a woman to lead she received so much hate mail throughout her life. No matter the amount of good she did for the world. Its just so sad to me

I grew up in the 1970s and I remember being told by my father, my male school counselors, and others that it was a waste of time to send a girl to college "just to get her MRS degree" - as if girls just went to college for fun and to screw around until they met their husbands-to-be. It totally didn't matter that I excelled in school and was taking AP science classes, as well getting my writing published. I also liked woodworking and other manual skills but was not allowed to take shop in high school - girls could only take "Home Economics" (sewing, cooking), or Typing for elective classes. My dad bitched constantly about having nothing but daughters for whose weddings he'd be obligated to pay. I used to piss him off by pointing out that he wouldn't have to fork over for our weddings if we went to college and could get good jobs with our degrees. Well, he didn't pay for either my wedding or college. I put myself through college and then nursing school, and my husband and I did our own wedding. Meanwhile, my mother (the religious one in the family) just pressured us all to get married because single college girls would "just get ruined having sex out of wedlock". When I lived with my partner for two years before getting married, she was so worried about me "living in sin". She constantly sent me religious books and propaganda aimed at the "proper role" of women. I've been an atheist for over thirty years, and I'm so much happier. My husband is my partner, not my owner or my master.

Prt4: There are many version of this story, but roughly it is said(at least in Jewish tradition) that Adam and Lilith were created as equals, but Adam felt that he should rule over her. Lilith informed him that they are equals, and after he tried to force obedience from her, in rage she ascended into the air and left him. Katalyzt

Okay, here we go. Standby! 3, 2, 1, action! Such a good way to start this off every time.

Have a cool idea for a vid thanks to this vid. Will share it with ya when done. May not be ready till next weekend.

Good show

You are Brilliant Seth! I can think of few spokespersons for Atheists that could do this better than you do! Well Done!!!

I have a daughter named Lillith and a daughter named Eden and a daughter named Willow

felt like re listening to this today...and...err...oh gawd, did seth's microphone improve...it sounds like he stuck a sock over it XD

55:04 to 55:53 I wonder if Peter Gabriel knows his music from 'Passion: Music for The Last Temptation of Christ' is being used in that TV show?

@TheThinkingAtheist Seth, the way you approached the interview with a pastor was fantastic. You were frank yet tactful and were consequently received much better than someone else may have been. I commend you! If I had been in your place I suspect the interview would have terminated pretty quick. (It doesn't take long to piss of a believer when you use words like bloodthirsty, misogynistic, homophobic and psychotic to describe their god). Keep up the great work!

Do you think you can do more of your quick 3 minute videos, they are so awesome.

Hey, Seth, I'm an atheist and I went to a school full of penticostles, so I have a ton of studies if you do a podcast of religion is schools, please give a heads up

Whoah im so early to comment. I've been waiting for this post like a kid for a cod game. Fantastic.

@abornpoker That was such a great idea, I can't believe anyone ever relaxed that rule.

I knew about Lilith thanks for listening to loads of metal music. Thanks Seth for bringing this up!

I really wanna talk on the show for a few minutes to Seth, but I live in England and to call America from where I live is £1.60 a minute ($2.55), and that's way too much for the amount of time I assume I'll get to talk for. If I can get on via Skype, that would be very helpful.

The Thinking Atheist brings sanity to my world :)

I heard the story of Lilith many years ago back when I was a Christian. I liked her. Somehow I don't think that I was suppose to like her, but I thought that she was awesome lol. Lilith > Eve. A lot of Christians (the ones the I know at least) either don't know the story of Lilith or outright object/deny it.

Your last ... haloween podcast had such a nice quality ... Y U GO BACK TO Mobilephone codex?

@intoTaboo It's in times like these when I praise God for creating a human to develop the Adblock extention! :)

"wedding tackle" lol

I am a Christian, and while my church is more progressive than most Baptists, I still, every now and then, experience a touch of sexism from some of the men in my church. Although they don't mean it to be that way, it still sets my teeth on edge. These are good men, who revere their wives and cherish their daughters, so that is why I have faith in their integrity. But it still irritates me.

Hey Seth, some guy on campus was passing out books today. "How Science Shows There MUST Be A Creator" by Timothy R. Stout. You would love this book, some of his reasons include: Irreducible Complexity, arbitrary selection, and a comparison between the law of thermodynamics and information entropy. He's also quote mined several of the great minds of science. This book has provided me with some cheap laughs for the last couple hours.

@Otokogoroshi Fair points. I suppose I'll leave this open and read additional comments for a while. I've said my peace in any case.

Lillith is finally getting some of the spotlight.

When discussing why the Old Testament cannot be tossed out I like to bring up the verses (in the OT) that say the word of God will stand forever and is perfect. Watch the videos of GIIVideo to find those verses.

@123r456a: Why?

Christians the first to educate women??? Women had more standing in some ancient Greek cities than that. Granted, they couldn't vote, but especially some 'whores' had a lot of social standing, not to mention all the priestesses. Then in ancient Rome they had property rights, could divorce, etc. In Egypt it's not very clear to me, but they had women in very important roles, like Hatshepsut. Generally polytheisms treated women better.

The female pastor sounded relatively young (no older than Seth was at the time who was in his early 40's), but she had attitudes regarding women that my great grandmother did who was born in 1900. I just don't get how someone who is female and or gay and or black could be religious. I just don't understand how any person from those three groups of people could stand and defend a religion that clearly doesn't see them as an equal to a white man.

0:55:03 -gave me chills. "A religion of peace indeed"

@Digityus You can come to my family reunions and Christmas gatherings! But our family only has about 5 surviving members and the only tree we've decorated for the past five years is a ficus. But still! Fun times! 8D

I just don't get that methodist pastor lady... going form catholic to methodist. That's kinda like going from heroin to codeine, y'know what I mean?

wait is this a re post ..or am having some crazy deja vu

I haven't had the opportunity to learn about them.

It is like in the matrix movie when neo says they have been so conditioned to depend on the system they will defend it. Still it is sad and self defeating when one admits weakness, and in self hate goes alnong with it or so brainwashed that the info doesnt get in, they defend it out of the ego sense of defending what you have known or been used to and resist change.

Wedding tackle? That's a new one for me, I like it. XD

Can someone give me the name of the woman talking on this podcast? I want to put "It's ok to release your inner bitch" on a list of quotes I like.

Reminds me of the "rule of thumb". I heard that originally it was the rule that you should only strike your wife with a rod no thicker than your thumb. I was pretty horrified when I realized what it meant and how I used to use it all the time :(

I’m baffled as well :(

Well said...............as a male I have always stood up for the rights of women on equal terms with any man. In regards to the female pastor........it seems like she couldn't reject her faith and had to find a denomination that was compromised enough for her to manage those issues.............bottom line is that she is not being true to herself... BTW.....Congratulations for thinking for yourself and not submitting to such nonsense after being raised in the yoke of female oppression.

@PurpleGhost Where did I straw-man anything? I'm open to being wrong :P so I'm not saying this out of anger but out of honest curiosity so I can study the language I used to say it better in the future.

This reminds me of the animated movie Persepolis, watch it.

Reading how women are treated in the Bible and the fact that God was OK with slavery pushed me on the road to really questioning the Bible.

I was brought up in the WWCG cult also I'm still trying to overcome it 58 years later.

Good lord that first caller says "um" more than Jeff freakin' Goldblum

Wow! I was Christian for over 50 years… I’ve never heard the Lilith story. Reminds me of the very old silly sitcom The Munsters… now I know who Herman’s wife was. I thought she was just some vampire since her father is Dracula. Very cool!

Oh yeah, consider yourself lucky! His impression IS spot on, which gives me flashbacks of high school and therefore infuriates me. He's too good at that!

@thayes7089 Ok. I wont go tit for tat on translations, but if he did rape her, is he not penalized? Did it say it was ok?

@Otokogoroshi - Sal good, one can't keep track of everything. Sleep well *waves*

This should be preached in the churches. Wake people up.

@BrotherAlpha - I thoroughly agree. Thank you for saying this. I can't thumbs up this post (Since ratings are disabled) but I want to. XD

BEST EVER FACEBOOK STATUS REPLY!!

@Otokogoroshi ... quoting, who?

@firebornliger Its been tied to Margret Atwood. Regardless of who said it its a compelling quote.

@Otokogoroshi - Hm. I took five minutes, to look through the comments again. My mistake, I actually misread what you had written. My apologies (m'dame?) tis my err.

I can imagine it would be.

The Methodist lady made a good attempt at explaining herself but Paul said,after saying that women should not teach,I quote "For Adam was formed first, then Eve." Paul explained why he said women should not teach.Her explanation about why he said women should not teach is contradictory with what Paul actually said.She insisted that it was because women were being educated and Paul did not what them to attract attention from the Romans but Paul made it clear that women should not have authority over men because MAN WAS CREATED FIRST.

@kenobi1985

7 жыл бұрын

Mr. MyErs Yet another apologetic, granted not one I'd ever heard before. Why would any historically or currently oppressed group uphold such a barbaric text as something worth following? Good on Seth for calling her on it.

@gdredd9587

5 жыл бұрын

Women were here first

I am naming my daughter lilith too.

@eahazell True, but at the end the important thing is, not making everyone think like us, but to make everyone think for they own. Its obvious that the lady has no problem in recognizing the flaws in her own believe, thats good enough for me.

@123r456a I prefer the other videos, but I don't mind the podcasts, just too long to watch the whole way

I wish we could get our politicians to obey these rules and regulations: "Politicians be ye SILENT; listen to your constituents in all matters and lean not upon your own understanding!"😀😂😀