“oh, cool, new vi- oh it’s in 17 hours”

@qualitymcbro8452

2 жыл бұрын

You got your way. He made a pole about this.

I'm pretty sure Qiyana was originally designed to be a jungler. I remember on release, she had a HUGE jungle presence and then Riot nerfed her into the ground and she was left with mid and ended up with the lowest winrate in mid. I'm happy to see her back in jungle, though, it's the most play she's seen in a while.

@RadicalJawzFunnyMoments

2 жыл бұрын

She’s totally a jungler. Like her abilities scream jungle. It’s why when poppy got reworked I kinda spammed her jungle because I saw walls deal bonus damage. Now she is flexed into the jungle so that’s cool.

@reistellae

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoeGewily not to be that guy, but just get good and learn to play against her. Or insta-ban her, idc ♡

@GattlingCombo

2 жыл бұрын

Seems like she was meant to be a jungle killer. She gets so much damage depending on the amount of terrain around, which the jungle has a lot of

@zubairadams6842

2 жыл бұрын

@@reistellae Deadass. Ppl just like complaining.

@Asthinus817

2 жыл бұрын

So glad someone said this. So many people make comments about it not realizing that most champs have had vastly different roles over the course of League. Qiyana was originally intended for jungle, and Talon's E was literally changed to the leap to make him a stronger, more mobile jungler. Heck, mid-lane used to be strictly mages and Brand, Xerath, and Zrya were the mid-laners. That's why so many champs can still function in their original roles as off-meta or counter-picks. Because people aren't familiar with them there anymore, but they still hold all the power they had from being in that role before.

Remember when Qiyana was actually intended to be a jungler and then they gutted her lol

@ubermaster1

2 жыл бұрын

Yea, I wouldn't say Qiyana is "invading" the role, more like she is returning to it. She always felt more natural there considering her hit, especially W. Though the other two are for sure being forced into the role.

@Silly00000

2 жыл бұрын

@@ubermaster1 I'd say talon feels like a jungle champ aswell. His jumping over terrain and invis makes him feel like kha.

@sortilien2099

2 жыл бұрын

Diana too... and she became a mid nightmare at release & was killed in jungle for a long time.

@dlh5323

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoeGewily did you CTRL-f the name qiyana to find all the comments with her in them just to complain.

@zubairadams6842

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoeGewily MAN IS SALTY IN EVERY COMMENT LMAOOO

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Diversity when it comes from a mature meta, where champion picks evolve and counters become niche and specific, even if traditionally off-meta, is fun, interesting and new. It shows developments of strategy and the wheels of the meta turning. Diversity when it comes from a patch that shoves champions in places where they have no history and no reason to be played other than "Riot buffed me" is frustrating and boring. Unfortunately, Riot never gives metas the time to mature that they need. The patches are always bringing something to the numerical forefront, or shoving things back where they used to be when they begin to prove themselves too strong as off-meta picks. Sadly, this isn't strictly a Riot issue, because the playerbase is often too quick to complain when something new, even if natural, is suddenly showing up and being played.

@TheKripox

2 жыл бұрын

Eh, sure, you might think that but thats not the majority opinion. Riot didn't make any changes to push Tryndamere into midlane and man he was absolutely despised for weeks after establishing himself in the role, for example.

@hallyuniverse

2 жыл бұрын

I mean Qiyana was designed for mid/jungle and got nerfed so she stayed mid lane, and Talon thematically fits as a jungler because of his roaming playstyle. The only "weird" change was Zed. It would make more sense if they gave Zyra, Kalista, Taric, or Quinn QoL jungle buffs so they actually have a place in the meta and be strong junglers.

@xxOnigiri99

2 жыл бұрын

Also Riot constantly makes a change that breaks (makes them strong or super weak) a champion or make them REALLY ANNOYING (even if beatable) and than just ignore it's effects for 6 patches straight, leaving people angry at champions like Akali, Syndra, Samira, Aphelios, tanks on top lane, some unfair jungler, etc. Everytime Riot "fixes" it by nerfing or buffing stuff, they restart the cycle because they usually go overboard with the numbers. Also, there is that Nightcrawler phrase of "sometimes we change things for the sake of change". And this philosophy should not be present in League (or any game for that matter)

@amandaslough125

2 жыл бұрын

@@hallyuniverse Quinn works fine in the jungle (walk againstthe Lee Zhaos though) has for years. Just a lot of her mains scoff at the idea of losing her from top lane. She's got an off meta bot lane following though at least.

@chowder2456

2 жыл бұрын

I don't believe Riot wants to give meta's time to mature ever since the tank ekko top meta happened

11:18 The problem is, every role have a bunch of champions that are ONLY playable on that role, and they still suck competing with the meta picks of that role. Zed and Qiyana already are OP on mid, no one asked for Riot to buff them on any other role. Meanwhile Skarner is still unplayable on the only role he can fit in, and he not only get slapped by Graves, Lee Sin, Kayn, but now champions that arent even junglers can kick his ass. Like, imagine buffing Vayne top trying to change Fiora Camille meta instead of just buffing Illaoi, Yorick, etc.

@medic7chaplin

2 жыл бұрын

My feelings exactly. The reason things get stale is because the champs aren't balanced. This season was super focused on kills and skarner cant 1v1 anyone, all he has got is his gimmick ultimate.

@H2SO4pyro

2 жыл бұрын

Qiyana sells way more skins than skarner do

@mihail221

2 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure Skarner is in a good spot but he is just too boring to play. I would never be afraid to fight an assassin as a Skarner they can't fight u.

@Kitusser

2 жыл бұрын

@@medic7chaplin You say this now, but when scarner is meta, everybody is complaining.

@medic7chaplin

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kitusser I would be one of the ones playing skarner.

I wish they would add more tanks back to the jungle. Decent tank junglers in past years like Maokai, Nautilus and Maplhite have all disappeared into top lane and support. Not to mention we haven't got a new tank jungler since Zac while every jungler since Ivern has been a slayer of some sort

@1lik3Fir33mbl3m

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn't Malphite always a laner?

@wilfredfegelein8215

2 жыл бұрын

That's more of an issue of tank champions not being all that good anymore

@off-meta9962

2 жыл бұрын

Problem is Tanks are Stricktly worse than bruiser. There is Not real Tank junglers with decently fast clears even After their First items.

@MrDrManPerson

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, there are a few good tank jungles. Rammus is a pretty good pick in the right comp. Mobalytics has rammus at the bottom of S tier. Cho gath is also seeing w come back.

@Gorophorge

2 жыл бұрын

Nah, malphite jungle back in seasons 3 and 4 was fucking lit, and was equal to top lane, back then my favorite thing about alot of the tank/fighter jungler metas of the old days, was most of them played those 2 lanes, so most junglers and tops knew how to work with each other cus the roles were 2 peas in a pod, shen, mao, naut, malph, nasus, Zac, trundle, cho gath, all of them were interchangeable between those 2 roles.

Assassins in junglers are interesting and they definitely make sense thematically to be there. However I felt the assassins in League were definitely designed to be midlanders first and foremost and are now being shoved into the Jungle because these edgy flashy champions are really popular with many people. I think Riot really wants to put them in there to encourage more jungling in case of an auto-fill? Or could it be they simply want to make the role more popular?

@july_paradox3094

2 жыл бұрын

In a way, it is better for diversity and the nature of jg going in and out of fights during laning phase as they should be doing. I dont think they are overpowered since some assasins done have cc like stuns and slows to lockdown champions.

@dylanhelvetios2300

2 жыл бұрын

Fun fact in his old champion spotlight Zed was said to be both a midlaner and a jungler

@dtoonergames7450

2 жыл бұрын

I’m a jungle main, and I only ever picked up Talon when he was added to jungle because he feels so natural for the role!! his e is a perfect jungling tool, and it makes him such a blast to play as

@gkarak1996

2 жыл бұрын

It's the auto fill thing. Remember when they put more damage on supports while screwing their utility just to try and appeal to an already dying role. Also remember the support role is disliked by the majority of players and riot themselves. Have you ever seen a support that when on another lane and did not get nerfed? People love their slayers and assassins. They have the most sold skins. Just look at the wind shitters. The bit left the mid lane and when to both top and bot. Instead of nerfs the got buffs to stay in these lanes. Just look at how many skins yasuo is getting. Or akali, dispite her nerfs.

@ScarletStarManor

2 жыл бұрын

I miss being able to jungle poker, shit was fun

Almost every issue in this game is linked to the same problem: new champs, items and metas correct the typical weaknesses of certain champs and more generally roles, making them too strong because they have no clear weak spot anymore.

@CoolGuy-pz5et

2 жыл бұрын

give an example?

@fanficologist6621

2 жыл бұрын

@@CoolGuy-pz5et Ad Assassin are two squishy and blows up too easily in a teamfight -> Goredrinker -> Ad Assassin are now OP. Gangplank struggled to output damage without at least 2 crit items (before crit rework) -> Stormrazor (guaranteed crit with reduced damage) -> GP was broken. Released Ekko is weak as a full ap assassin, squishy and vulnerable to CC+burst and can't use R -> tank Ekko ZHONYA is exclusively a mage items with a steep price -> 600g stopwatch -> everyone and their mothers buy it before big teamfights.

@CoolGuy-pz5et

2 жыл бұрын

@@fanficologist6621 a lot of items cover a classes weakness, mages and adcs are supposed to be squishy but they have zhonyas banshees shieldbow and ga, gore was just an op item, and they patched it out talon no longer builds gore. Watch the clip of tyler1 being 100 to zerod with 1 gp barrel

When discussing lane diversity I like to follow a rule: it is okay for a champion to shine off roles if it happens because they have the right tools to do it, but it is not okay if it happens because their opponents don't have the right tools to counter them. For example, I think is fair to see Mages in the carry role of botlane because they work there trough higher early damage and wave clear, but the enemy Marksman can overcome by less dependance on EXP and Mana. Ranged toplaners on the other hand usually play through constant harass that many toplaners simply can't overcome without help of the jungler. This is why Jungle has always been the most diverse role in the game (the only one with at least one champion in each subclass) and it's perfectly fine, because a Jungler's main interaction isn't with the enemy jungler but with the monsters and the Laners, so there's no chance no one in the enemy team will lack a way to counter you.

@louisrobitaille5810

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, if you count jungle tracking as an interaction, he's interacting with the enemy jungler 24/7 xd

@panlis6243

2 жыл бұрын

@@louisrobitaille5810 Ye, I believe they meant "interacting" as poking, trading, all ins etc.

@luriddream

2 жыл бұрын

"Higher mage early damage" lmao did you even play a mage or are you just a brand main? Xerath skills especially w tickles the enemy before 6, they heal back to full from the w damage before its slow effect ends lmao

@louisrobitaille5810

2 жыл бұрын

@@luriddream As a Xerath main with almost 750k points, I can garantee you that you have no clue what you're talking about lmao. The only champion that can rough up a Xerath pre-6 is Leblanc. All the others either have to play safe (play as if the minion wave was twice as long to stay out of range 😆, get help from their jungler, or roam if they want to survive pre-6. After that, Xerath loses almost all matchups until he gets Luden. At that point he's still barely on par with other champions and has to play hyper safe to not die over and over. Often, even under his own T1 tower isn't enough. When his enemies start to get their 2nd item, Xerath loses most matchups until 5-6 items. At that point, if he plays correctly and is peeled properly, the game is free because he has infinite mana and massive damage + huge objective steal potential.

@tyr_4941

2 жыл бұрын

@@louisrobitaille5810 From experiance a Pantheon can fuck xXerath up pretty hard, but that might be only in ma elo range.

11:25 were not saying we want an adc top lane, we want to play outher “normal” top laners and not play those 4 since almost everyone else there isn’t with playing.

i really believe we should get some of the roam heavy mages into the jungle, like neeko and aurelion, esp since they seem to be having a hard time in the mid, but have amazing tools to be played in the jungle, only problem being their bad clears

@jaishkhan7442

2 жыл бұрын

This. I tried playing Asol Jungle and aside from killing camps (which takes so long) Ganking other lanes was so fun and Asol has a lot of self peel so he is pretty slippery to ganks himself

@CvntyPussyWIllow

2 жыл бұрын

Neeko used to be viable in jgl, but theu removed her extra dmg on monsters.

@santhoshdabbir395

2 жыл бұрын

i would love to see aurelion in jung. i wll probably hate his stun as adc main but it would be interesting to see how he plays out

@hornet6599

2 жыл бұрын

based, im biased as a neeko main but this would be so interesting

@mariostoynov

2 жыл бұрын

I would love to play Lissandra jg. Her clear is horendous right now, but if they fixed that she would be rather strong i think.

Can we agree that it feels weird when they force a champion to fit in a role/schtick instead of letting them branch out in the way they begin, like On Hit Neeko getting gutted just, because?

@Izigurand

2 жыл бұрын

Riot doesn’t like people not playing the game the way they intended. Bunch of assholes.

@sebagomez4647

2 жыл бұрын

what I hate is that is not unpopular champions that get that kind of treatment. zed and talon were perfectly fine mid and decently popular. meanwhile you have champions that are only picked in like 1 role and have like 0.1% pickrate

@viltautasYT

5 ай бұрын

like why dont lilia passive work on minions? literally no reason too... and now u cant play her in top/mid...

A couple of ago, Qiyana was a jungler, but then RITO nerfed her due to her prevalence in high level play. Then she was poop in the jungle for awhile before the series of buffs this season. This aside, it feels like she belongs in the jungle; her kit meshes so well there.

2:26 Honestly those are not QoL buffs, Riot specifically shoehorned those champs to be played in the jungle lol

@Wavinto

2 жыл бұрын

True

@zachsz9320

2 жыл бұрын

Kinda like how they clearly don't want Pantheon to be played in jungle with that 30% less damage to camps with his Q

@medic7chaplin

2 жыл бұрын

A QoL buff would be fixing things for the junglers who have fallen out of favor.

@pabloporrero1932

2 жыл бұрын

@@zachsz9320 i hope Panth jungle becomes viable... Is a fun, easy to play champion but he falls off too quick and his clearing could be a bit better.

I regularly play “off-meta” champs. Simply to run across those who are secret god modes. I get destroyed in chat but thats the same regardless lol

@fergin4979

2 жыл бұрын

Ive been goin to town with chogath jg its so fun

@fergin4979

2 жыл бұрын

@Glodius ooo that sounds spicy

@xaladolokiyo

2 жыл бұрын

nasus mid ap might be my favourite low elo pick ever. actually destroys you if ur farming badly and not respecting the distance

@faisfaizal5194

2 жыл бұрын

*plays off-meta jg* *gets flamed by teammates* *plays regular jg* *gets flamed by teammates for not ganking their lanes* This is why no one wants to play jg

@Eibarwoman

2 жыл бұрын

@@faisfaizal5194 It's also the same with support, just that it's the ADC doing most of the flaming.

Learned that Nautilus' E does increased damage to jungle monsters, in ARAM

idk off meta picks are fine as long as the champ being flexed actually has tools to work in the role

@medic7chaplin

2 жыл бұрын

to be fair there are junglers who dont have the tools like shyvana. The only thing she has going for her is surprise dragon.

@Kitusser

2 жыл бұрын

It just sucks when zed jungle clears faster than champions who cant go anywhere else. I.E. Kha'Zix

@rat2316

2 жыл бұрын

Buff twitch sustain in jungle

@louisrobitaille5810

2 жыл бұрын

@@rat2316 No. He's already broken enough as is.

@louisrobitaille5810

2 жыл бұрын

@@medic7chaplin She has even less tools for laning lmao

There was one game where my friend played Talon jungle way before he even had the jungle buffs. It was unfortunately a four-man team versus a five-man team because our top laner quit after dying once. I was playing ADC and my support had to go Top Lane just to mitigate the damage. Suffice to say it was not fun playing against two people by myself. I knew my friend was good with Talon but I never realize how good. First off I noticed that I haven't seen Fiddlesticks once and whenever I do look at the mini map I noticed that fiddlesticks was dead and it got me wondering how. It quickly occurred to me that Not only was he clearing his camps pretty fast but he was able to counter jungle incredibly quickly, leaving the enemy Fiddlesticks so behind that we never had to worry about him in our lanes. This was also after I was worried that he didn't take a potion to a jungle. He's not a Talon one trick but the moment I saw him take on Pantheon and Misfortune by himself I knew we had not only a fighting chance but a winning chance. After 20 minutes of him constantly getting kill after kill for everyone, while still sharing the kills so we were never left in the dust, getting every single jungle objective almost by himself, the fact that we were all able to still somehow when teamfights despite the fact that it was a 4v5, it made me greatly appreciate his offer to pick up the time. This was just a great example of your point where the autofill jungler picks a champion they know and it works out because they know the champion. Also I would love to share the story because he really did make that Miracle happen. He really doesn't deserve to be in bronze

I’m just wondering if these changes will end up having the opposite effect? i.e. riot introduces new champions to jungle to try to get more players to play the role -> the result is that although some new players are playing jungle, the original junglers get forced off their picks and now having to adapt to a new play style will no longer enjoy or queue for that role

@amandaslough125

2 жыл бұрын

Jungle mains are hardy. It's the only lane that consistently changes seasonally, yeah it is in constant demand of needing players.

I play SMITE where every Jungler is an Assassin, by definition. But that game has wards that cover a much larger area and are purchasable by everyone each back, so it's never as suffocating as things like Talon. There's just not enough vision on League's larger map to since Riot culled it to decrease game length.

Everyone in the comments are actually talking about ad assassins in the jungle but man that background music along with the green pixel text go incredibly well with your speech, I feel like I'm watching a spy movie

Thank you for this video actually...I recall my first time seeing Zed jungle and I was so confused, but they were SOOOOO helpful!

I think you're off the mark on some of this. Talon absolutely does not have a weak early game. His lv 2 all in is absolutely insane. Probably one of the best in the whole game. The reason he's being played jg isn't so he can circumvent a weak early game, it's so he can use it anywhere and everywhere on the map.

I've been only playing Qiyana JG for the last few months. Her ult is insane in the jungle. I have stolen so many drags/barons by W over wall and ulting, which stuns everyone nearby since the water freezes and walls explode. The ult, combined with an empowered Q, and smite can easily deal about 1500- 2000+ damage to an objective, and since everyone is stunned its pretty much a confirmed steal unless you mess up. And now that they added the new lethality assassin item that reduces your ult by 20% on kill, Qiyana can have it up by every teamfight or gank. She feels great to me rn.

Personally, I wish jungle's skill expression was put back into clearing and ganking. I remember last year there were complaints about ganking junglers over performing, and so riot decided to make camps give more gold. While that sounds good on paper, all that ended up doing was making ganking junglers just do those camps, and then go back to ganking with even more gold. Did it fix the problem? A little. However, imagine this outcome instead. Imagine what happens if instead the second and third clear of the buffs or gromp/krugs still threatened the player. That would simultaneously create more engagement for power-farming junglers since they no longer could just sit back and clear without really even needing to worry about kiting, but it would also significantly nerf ganking junglers as it would force them to choose between some of the more valuable camps or ganking, as the more valuable camps would put them low or just take too long.

Call me biased, but seeing assassins everywhere is a norm nowadays anyway. Top, mid, jungle, support or even ADC. League of assassins was getting a bit stale so they decided to spice it up a bit with more jungle variation

@neonproxy3837

2 жыл бұрын

Don't bring back Morg Jng 😂

@Kitusser

2 жыл бұрын

Assassins support/adc??? Only one is pyke, but he's an actual support.

@MrLuzakman

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kitusser gotta agree, just one "real" assassin-support is way too little. Rito ought to increase those options. And by ADC I obviously meant role, not class. Yone/Yasuo are pretty common as ADCs for example, Happy Chyme Noises have videos on Rengar and Qiyanna bot, and just yesterday my botlane somehow managed to feed carry Kata

@Kitusser

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrLuzakman That doesn't mean they're a common pick in the botlane. Yone/yasuo aren't your standard assassin and even then they suck in botlane. Rengar is a one trick champion which can work everywhere but sup/mid if played well. Slayers are the most popular class in the game, so thats why you see it alot. The assassin mythics are pretty bad tbh, but the legendaries are pretty good, thats why assassins were building goredrinker.

@MrLuzakman

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kitusser when did i ever say anything about assassins dominating the game? All i said was that they are played in every role

"goredrinker has been nerfed". Laughs in 11.22 (worse than before but still)

Interestingly, Mobile Legends' junglers are almost always assassins. If there's one thing that makes ML distinguishable, it's how different positioning usually goes.

@NuryPPanaligan

2 жыл бұрын

The norm in almost all mobile mobas are assassin junglers.

@bevvvy1374

2 жыл бұрын

@@NuryPPanaligan Based Misaki enjoyer

When Talon was buffed I was like super happy because now I can get back to my comforting playstyle that made me main Talon in the first place, Jungle.

it was fun being one of the only Shaco support players for a long time, then few videos were made about how good it is that riot buffed it to point where lots of people started playing him or banning him. So it is much better if you find a good champ on some position, dont tell anyone, keep quiet and have fun, others will ruin it for you

I feel like Qiyana and Talon’s kits make a ton of sense from the jungle, and they’re super fun to play in that role so that’s why they’re popular when they’re good enough to do it

You are conflating two things in your rant about champion diversity. People don’t complain that new champs are in new roles just because they are there, they complain because they are so powerful in that role, more so than any other champion/pick. Pantheon support was a great example, he was far too powerful as an engage support because he has really good base damage, some utility with his stun and even slow on empowered Q, and he can completely negate any and all return fire and when he first started going support could even block tower shots. The complaints weren’t that pantheon was being picked as support, they were that he was so crazy strong as one that it made it extremely difficult to even play the game against him. Same is going for the assassin junglers, they didn’t just get the ability to jungle, they got some of the fastest and therefore healthiest clears from the buffs, and now you have no idea where they are at certain points of time. This is a problem because honestly they are extremely broken as is due to the fact that they have targeted one shot combos so it doesn’t really take much skill and at the least leaves no or little room for counter play. How do you stop talon, zed, or Qiyana from jumping on you? Sit in the base?

@Wavinto

2 жыл бұрын

Facts, at least not make someone like Zed be able to hit Level 6 by 5 Minutes even before Solo Laners, like make them have a reasonable 3:15 for 5 camps like even most actual junglers have

Hey Vars, Im a long time fan and i appreciate all the work you put in to creating these videos. If i could make a constructive criticism, it would be to organize your script and on screen effects to reflect your thoughts in more of a list/bullet point format. I know a lot of your talking is to bring the audience along with your thought process, which I always find to be well thought out, but its always hard for me to remember what you said in the beginning of the video when im too busy following along with what your currently saying. Thanks for taking the time to listen and also for giving us something to watch about league instead of playing lol

I think the hardest part of being a jungler is seeing 'Jungle diff' when your top lane Irelia tried to tower dive Malphite at level 1

@pabloporrero1932

2 жыл бұрын

The best game setting is disabling chat. Teammates are so kind they give reasons to do it every game XD.

Junglers are measured by three things early game: Their clears, their ability to get around the map, and their dueling/ganking. If you're balanced you get to do _TWO_ out of the three. When you look at the assassin junglers you notice that the normal ones follow this rule. The mid lane assassins that they shoved into the role tend not to though. Talon for example has high mobility, fast clears, _and_ high early game damage. The fast clears were given to him for free to get him into the jungle. The high mobility was put in when he was still chained to mid lane where it couldn't be abused. The high early game damage is also inherited from mid lane where he needs it to fight his lane opponents. Most jungle assassins should either struggle with clears or with dueling early game. Rengar and kha are mostly single target clearers which is a bit slow. Eve and kayn are kind of weak duelists early game before they get items. They scale out of these problems, but they still start off with them. That's the standard mid lane assassins need to be held to if they're going to force them into the jungle. So far Qiyana seems the fairest in the jungle.

@antonforsell759

2 жыл бұрын

How the fuck do you even talk about 3 ad assasins with sub 50% wr, while 2 of them being 46-47%wr and somehow get them to be "broken". Only talon is somewhat viable with a 49%wr

"Assassins should be in the jungle, because it allows them to completely circumvent their main weakness" Uhhhhh.... Maybe that's a reason they _shouldn't_ be there?

@sakutaro3musik486

2 жыл бұрын

exactly

@ROSPoetry1

2 жыл бұрын

Yea is agree, if anything they don’t show enough weaknesses.

I love off-meta, but there's a rule: YOU MUST HAVE A GAMEPLAN. Fiddlesticks support has the goal to spam E poke and finish them off with R at level 6, with the added benefits of fear peel and effigy vision control. If you build full tank Kai'sa support with no clear path to victory, you are a TROLL. Playing for fun does not mean ignoring the fundamental goal of taking the enemy nexus.

The Concussive Sona Music at the begining is just 👌

I feel like that crying kitten meme as you talk about people being mean to you cause of your pick. I have had games where I go 2/0/0 in laning as a scaling champion and take two towers before beginning to roam and help my teamates and get called carried and have people say I am horrible at the game because I picked a character who is not often played top. It feels a lot of the time like if I pick off meta I have to carry early (even if I am say a kha'zix who loves to scale) or suddenly I am horrible at the game!

@medic7chaplin

2 жыл бұрын

Riot put so much focus on early game in order to make matches shorter that if you don't get ahead in the first 15 min it doesn't feel as good.

@kamikazelemming1552

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe it's because I don't play ranked, but as someone who picks and plays champions outside of their usual roles, the amount of times people have insulted me for it can be counted on two hands. Heck, I just did two games as Nocturne support, and in the second game, my team actually encouraged me and were interested in seeing what Nocturne was capable of in the role.

@Mori-man

2 жыл бұрын

@@kamikazelemming1552 I am glad your experience is better than mine

I think you missed the mark when it comes to diversity. Where I think the community stands is that they do not like the same 4 champions for example in the top lane but they as well do not want "diversity" coming from other lanes(for example lulu). They would appreciate more diversity when it comes from the same let's say home(not running into Darius every game but to see more Morde or less Riven more Olaf.....). So that's why I think I disagree with your last point.

I personally don't mind the assassin jungler roster expansion. Zed has been one of my favorite champions for years but I could never play him because whenever I would queue up for mid, I might as well have signed up for autofill or my secondary role pick which would subsequently be Jungle, because surprise, surprise I main jungle. So yeah I'm happy to finally have the liberty of playing Zed in the Jungle without getting laughed or raged at.

0:42 Fun Fact: the past tense of "Smite" is "Smote."

Sick editing in this one, (y)

This is a good season to be a malzahar main if they want to go assassin everywhere fine I will play anticarries

Jungling feels less like a skill now and more like just a thing you have to do before looking for ganks and objectives

@Mmoll1990

2 жыл бұрын

That's because it's a macro-focused role, not a micro one. The barrier to entry on the role is already absurdly high, and we need more people to play it. I say this as a jungle main.

Talon cosplaying as Kayn @ 3:54.

if im not mistaken talon jg has been an jungle pick for a WHILE now, albeit off meta i believe a few challengers were getting crazy games with him before his jg buffs in the same fashion, qiyana worked fine as a jungler before the buffs (raptor clearing was troublesome but you could heal off of them using invis from grass and the burn from talisman/knife)

I started playing League a week ago, and i just played a game where my teammates were blaming everything on me, told me that they were going to report me and were generally just being a-holes. The League community is (mostly, I know some nice players and there are probably plenty) not welcoming for newer players, and I don't know if i can keep going. Anyways love your vids, been watching for a year now.

@superspol

2 жыл бұрын

I got into it earlier this year, had the same experience. It's like that for most games, but league is on another level for both the flame new players end up enduring combined with the high amount of knowledge required to even play the game. Part of what helped me was 1. Disabling all chat myself because even thought I love the funny interactions, the random ?s and stuff like that really get under my skin for some reason. 2. Playing aram (if you enjoy it). It helped me find some new champions to play and also taught me about every champ and n the game and how they work more or less. If you do decide to stick with it, good luck. If not, that's cool too!

@Opus9ine

2 жыл бұрын

because there are a ton of bad smurfs that are not good enough to carry games but good enough to tell what you are doing wrong. Don't mind them, remember you playing with them because they are just as bad/good as you are. XD

@funnygoose2146

2 жыл бұрын

@@Opus9ine According to these people, I was doing everything wrong

@Marpfie

2 жыл бұрын

correction: they are not welcoming to ANYONE. not just new players.

I may not like talon, zed, or qiyana, (adc main) but I do love the idea of bringing more champions into jungle. Personally I really like Leona and Tristana as off meta jungle picks, but in the case of trist and adc/marksman as a whole there aren't many jungler options past kindred and teemo (who I love in jungle). I think Kai'sa could work as she isn't flexed top/mid like trist and q could give good clear with e and r for ganks, but like most adcs her early skirmish falls short of most other junglers in the meta. Great video as always, I love thinking about this stuff!

Jungle is facing the same thing the support role did, that it is becoming more inclusive. Jungle was always the farm role OR ganking role. Farming got you much stronger into late, but sacrificed your teammates. Ganking was more like a support role (which is why the term "taxing" became a thing, to help the big disadvantage they will be in for spending time ganking). Often times a farm jungler could counter jungle and be a level or two ahead with more gold and 1v1 a ganking jungler for spending too much time ganking, but with so many changes to force ganking, farming is pretty much non-existant. I, personally, think this is bad because we've seen the exact same thing with support. Supports were their name, no dumb mages, assassins, etc... I can actually somewhat understand wanting to make the support role more popular because it was a pretty big issue of nobody wanting to play support, but they did it in such a bad way. Now (most) ADC players and the OG support players hate the lane because ADC champions aren't carries, they are just there to farm in the chaos, and supports are pretty much just second mid laners or junglers. Mid laners and junglers hate the constant roaming, ADC players hate the fact they aren't the purpose of their role (to carry the team), and OG support players hate versing cancer like Brand or Xerath support. The only people who come out on top in this are mid laners who are insecure about their gameplay and just want a free lane with little skill to just spam abilities at the lowest movement speed/mobility characters in the game without mana issues. Nobody likes playing support still, but now if you are autofilled you can instalock Xerath and not be flamed. Jungle is facing this same issue and it will play out the same, it's been getting gutted for a while now with many changes, but now more than ever Riot are trying to make it something it isn't. There is a reason jungle is the most autofilled role in the game now and it's not because of the champions. i.e: no more jungle item you had to go first, smite as an actual fighting ability with red/blue, MUCH more healing to allow dumb things like Karthus who should just die to them, less camps you actually need to farm for resources, getting an early lead typically means a win, etc...

Recently I've fallen in love with singed jungle, I'm a big fan of diverse or flex picks. Gets boring doing/seeing the same thing every game

@fergin4979

2 жыл бұрын

Yea im loving chogath jg lately

As long as it makes sense for that champ to be in that role, I like it when they add new champs to different roles.

I think one of the reasons why players don't like off-meta picks is because League metagame has become so based upon predictability that any deviations from the norm fills everybody involved with uncertainty. League players depend on established knowledge of previous games and character interactions, knowing who counters who or which teammates have good synergy or how to approach those champions. When you have an off-meta pick on your team, they're like a bomb that threatens to explode, but neither team knows when it will or who it will do the most damage to. It feels to me very much like a fear of the unknown type of situation

@khirnera

2 жыл бұрын

For the record I LIKE off-meta. I like when league games feel fresh and new, as if you're discovering something about the game you had never seen before

honestly i love champ diversity, it adds some spice, i really wish that along with expanding the jungle roster, id love to see them expanding the roles that "jungler" champs can play, this would also help people who dont play jgl become familiar with jgl champs, for example what if your jgler wasnt first time evelynn because they had played evelynn top in the past and was familiar with her playstyle?

Now to wait for the day of Talon Support.

Me who has been using jungle zed for a long time: I am four parallel universes ahead of you.

I think Quiana and Talon feel the most natural in Jungle. When I first saw Talon changes and Quiana I thought their kits fit the jungle the most. When I tried them they sucked ass and I moved on.

A note about "old good times". Before iirc season 4 there were no visible jungle timers. I have nothing but respect for people who remembered and played around them despite that.

Aphelios is the only ad "burst mage"? He is the only one that can 100 to 0 someone with distance when he has snipey, i think

Imagine they change the red and blue buff to take more damage if the attacker has a shield on... At first it sounds like an enchanter jungle meta but then you realize diana sett and lee sin also has self shields. Would be really interesting to see something like thid

Always played qiyana in jungle whenever i played her. Surprised to hear she wasnt a jungler o.o

This topic is perplexing to me because in my mind all three already existed as jungle options so I don’t find it odd they’re there. (The buffs seem a bit much but that’s another story). However I guess newer people saw these characters more as midlanders due to meta shifts and could be taken aback to them switching (or unbeknownst to them returning) to jungle.

when it comes to diversity we talk about being able to play all midlane intended champs but some are just not playable, wjhile champs like zed and yasuo are never bad, that´s just bad game design and balancing. When did you see Veiger the last time?

@dominicguye8058

2 жыл бұрын

Bot lane

From my experience, from a jack of all trades player PoV, from logical reasoning, and from what I personally believe, Jungle is literally the easiest role in the game. It's a role where all you have to think about is Macro while all other roles have to think about Macro while dealing with the waves and the opponents. Jungle is also the easiest role to get ahead on as you existing is the thing that provides pressure with the only possible pressure or disadvantage existing when you're ganking is a counter gank which is unlikely meanwhile top laners have to deal with 1 mistake in lane making you terribly behind and outright being useless, midlaners have to deal with the highest gank potential as no matter which side the enemy jungle is on mid lane is always close. Bot lane not only do they have to deal with someone other than them inting the game but the fun and classic 5v5 bot lane 7 minutes into the game because everyone decided to gank there at the same time. All the while actually going against someone rather than the occasional "Oh hi there" that is so easy to avoid that I can't reasonably count it as going against someone in a role. This is just *some* of the things laners have to deal with while being as aware as possible of the enemy jungler's whereabouts. Jungle is different in how it plays as a whole from laning but different doesn't mean it's hard it just means it needs some getting used to not just as champion pool but also as the role and what makes it even easier is that it's been literally the strongest and most influential role in the game since season 3 aside from a few small metas here and there. To play Jungle all you need to know is Macro and literally nothing else, sometimes not even how your champion works tbh. To play a Lane you need to know Macro and deal with constant pressure and threats from getting ganked while if you're autofilled and played a champ you have little experience on, the lane is literally doomed to be ridiculously behind if you're up against someone who mains the role unless you get some good camping from your jungler. Unironically, the hardest things junglers have to deal with is the flame they get from their team which is easily subsided by muting individually or turning off chat or /muteall On another note I'm all for diversity and the league playerbase actually needs to chill and let things that may be slightly OP or slightly weak stay that way for a while as people learn how to deal with it or learn how to play it respectively. Obviously not including ridiculously broken things like release 200 years

@bevvvy1374

2 жыл бұрын

Laners don't need to know macro and it's very obvious. Maybe a handful of the Laners I play with know anything about it. You're really playing up what laners have to deal with when it isn't nearly as bad as you say. Mid lane is extremely hard to gank if they have even a little bit of mobility. Even if they don't it's still hard because the lane is so small. Top only has to worry about ganks if they don't have vision and/or are overextended which both can be prevented easily. Bot laners are similar to top. To play jungle ideally, you have to track enemy jungle constantly, countergank, invade, understand lane priority, constantly check every lane's situation, identify which lane is pointless to gank and which ones you should gank so they can carry, memorize camp times, and when to go for objectives. No other role has to keep this many things going on in their head.

@Venishuaa

2 жыл бұрын

@@bevvvy1374 I don't know what Elo you are but if laners don't need to know Macro then that's gold and below as *everyone* needs to know Macro. "handful of laners I play with know anything about it" is meaningless because that's anecdotal evidence rather than facts. Mid lane is really easy to gank due to the champions that go there as they all either have burst damage or CC or both so the lane being short is really almost irrelevant except for those who don't have mobility then they have a better chance of survival. Top and bot regularly get dived even if they have vision because either the jungle tanks or the top laner tanks or the support tanks so I don't really get where you're going with this and this literally keeps happening in diamond +. To play lanes* ideally you do have to track the enemy jungle rather than playing jungle so you know when to actually be aggressive or not. If all laners understand lane priority why does the jungle having to understand them suddenly make it harder?. Knowing which lane is pointless to gank is easy as you just have to see who's very behind and who can carry the game. Nobody memorises camp times because that's pointless they just clear in a certain direction. Invading is yes the *only* thing a jungle has to keep track of that laners don't so that's that. What you're arguing is that what junglers deal with is literally what laners deal with but you're omitting laners so I don't get it.

The problem I feel with those assassins in the JG is that I, as a Taliyah main, saw her being kicked out of the mid lane and seeing her roaming mage play-style removed from the game. After that she couldn't survive laning against Zed and others while not scaling nearly enough to come back into the game. By going jg she could flee those hard assasins match-ups and continue to "roam" as a Jg. Now, every single game I queue is against those same assassins that made her a pain in the ass to play mid. And some champs have it even worse, Ivern cant even compete in JG while being impossible to play any other role by design.

Every other moba sees ad assassins being the primary junglers. Honestly I'm loving the changes

Tbh I think they should give renekton some jungle buffs like this. It's be interesting to see a bruiser like him in the jungle

TL;DR Jungle used to take skill and was actually hard -> People didn't want to learn that role -> Riot made it much easier to play and they inflated Mid lane Assasins into Jungle -> Now everybody hates Jungle because it's way too easy and because Assasins being able to pernamently roam is kinda broken.

@ohbabybaby4087

2 жыл бұрын

the community doesn't know what it wants, that's the truth

@cgijokerman5787

2 жыл бұрын

@@ohbabybaby4087 Riot doesn't know how to balance a role properly.

@guilhermeluccacl

2 жыл бұрын

@@ohbabybaby4087 True.

@ohbabybaby4087

2 жыл бұрын

@@cgijokerman5787 the community doesn't even know what balance is

@araqweyr

2 жыл бұрын

@@ohbabybaby4087 Neither does Riot

Im nglll your pfp looked better in blue xP

Zed jungle after completing his clear in 3.34 seconds is getting a double in bot lane... meanwhile Olaf top side is getting kited by skuttle

@kiber_jiuntik6674

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, yea sure rito can make assasin good in jg, but make their clear slower, becose they have amasing ganks. It just not fair when i play on champion that based on farm, and some zed full cleared his jg, stole my blue and ganked top and mid, while i kill gromp first time

12:23 Gee, maybe people want more of the 30 already existent toplaners in the game to be more viable instead of hamfisting someone into top lane with broken buffs ala Tahm Kench.

I would really like to see the meta shifted so that qiyana and talon aren't very good mid, but good in the jungle. I think thats what riot is trying to do, given that they are buffing mage items next season and assassin likely won't be able to hold their own to the same degree anymore.

@fergin4979

2 жыл бұрын

I see your point, but also i doubt anyones gonna build those before their mythic/core and by that point laning phases is over. early laning will be the same

@thegloriousryan8981

2 жыл бұрын

@@fergin4979 doran’s ring got a pretty massive buff and the mythics also were changed to be cheaper.

@fergin4979

2 жыл бұрын

@@thegloriousryan8981 oh i was unaware of that yea that helps

Dont say they can whipe their oponent in a matter of seconds, in a lot of cases up to a second is enough.

I kinda want to see more weird compositions become viable, like double smite comps.

from what i understood assasin that are in the jungler are more or less people that play midlane but dunno how to lane noted

@Wavinto

2 жыл бұрын

And abuse how broken of numbers they get on release and hope they slip under the radar as long as possible (like Zed, mad overtuned as a jungler, still unnoticed by riot)

@ohbabybaby4087

2 жыл бұрын

@@Wavinto because he only has 46% win rate having 20% pick rate

I see what you did with the title 😂 Edit: Also, the music in the video pays homage to my main (which i picked up because of the why no one plays video on) 👍

I think the problem with new champs is their clear speed; they get a passive with a 200% effectiveness on jungle camps (like zed) while champions that were in fact designed to jungle (afk farm even) get like a 4% max hp on hit damage for 5 seconds...on an 11 second base cd (that's shyvana), it literally makes no sense considering zed can also gank better than shyvana could (i put her as an example because i'm a shyvana otp so trust me on this one) because he has a slow and a blink (and a useful passive!) at level 3 whereas shyvana just kinda farms and maybe ganks once she's 6... don't get me wrong i love the playstyle,just me and my camps y'know but my laners...well they don't enjoy it as much as i do xD

@1lik3Fir33mbl3m

2 жыл бұрын

Hecarim has an above average clear speed and I played into a Zed and he cleared faster, like wtf, for what reason should Zed outfarm Hecarim, Karthus and all the other power farm junglers. Assassins if they are in the jungle should slightly struggle clearing the camps, but shine in ganking. Not doing everything better.

@icanteven1752

2 жыл бұрын

@@1lik3Fir33mbl3m Exactly! That's what i mean it's either you're good at one thing or the other not both,i'm glad someone else understands that's a big issue with all this

Top has so many potential champs you could see and yet we only see 4

1 jungle 2 mid/supp may vary in diferent seasons, and last toplane and ADC

Talon has been an off meta jungle pick for years, and has gotten a few moments of popularity in the jungle over the years as well. It was not uncommon to see him jungle back in Season 4 as I remember.

3:54 talon making a kayn cosplay

Diversification is not bad in itself, but the real problem is if the picks are flexpicks. The game has evolved to a point where you actually lose a game in champ select, due to the fact that with swaps you might pick a certain champion into another but the enemy champ was a flex pick so now 2 lanes (lets say mid and top) have unfavourable losing matchups. The reason why irelia/riven/camille/fiora are the 'main top lane' champs is simple, their counter matchups are still playable and they fair well against top lane champs. this is due to the fact that each role has mandatory requirements for champions to play as. Hence when you try to diversify a champion pool you give champions more tools or shift their balance and you might end up with a new meta instead of a new champion pool recent example that comes to mind is the panth rework, which they to this day haven't properly fixed. He is according to riot a toplaner, but he is with his current implementation a mid laner. He lacks lane sustain, consistent dmg out put for extended fights, has high mana costs for his trading patterns and no max/current health damage to make him able to trade with tanks/bruisers. Riot talks about diversification but has no idea really of why people hate it. it is not that too many options hurt the meta, it is that too many options make the game unfun due to the growing size of counter picks. A healthy implementation would be if they finally made their mind up which champion belongs were, which champions should be flex picks and what are the clear requirements and limits a role has. Alternatively I am an advocate of having 2 bans in ranked games. We reached a point where 5 bans out of 155 champions aren't enough. Through this method we could enable more diverse champ pools for lane while reducing the huge amount of counter picks that exist.

I want to see as many champions in places they shouldn't be as possible, honestly My main support is literally Nasus, and my past 10ish games I've been running Kindred mid/ADC so that I can use grasp on her and infinite scale both defense and offense (it works surprisingly nicely) But yeah the more viability for champs to do weird bullshit in weird places, the better. It's such a shame that Riot constantly nerfs the shit out of the vast majority of off-meta picks.

10:32 I feel called out...

They should push bard and taric to be junglers. Just having ivern as the only support jungler is sad

@chezwickcheese139

2 жыл бұрын

Would love to play Bard jungle. His kit, except his useless heal, is perfect for jungle.

I hate seeing any assassins on the enemy team ever but I love champ diversity in roles and off meta picks so I’m fine with the changes

There needs to be videos like this about Wild Rift

I think these 3 are in a specific situation of being frustrating because they're Assassins. Assassin Junglers really don't need new additions from existing champion pools, because as brought up in the video, some of the existing ones are already problematic. Though I think a big reason for all this is Riot's refusal to allow Tanks to be good anymore. Assassins are held down by Tanks, but Tanks can't hold down Assassins anymore so they become way more frustrating to play against. Then you combine that frustration of dealing with Assassins, and then shove them into a new role where they haven't been for years. People complain about Zed Jungle because he's not a known value in Jungle but he is a known value in Mid. Kha isn't complained about *as* much because he is a known value in Jungle. Assassins aren't a class of champions that needs to be expanded on with existing champions in the jungle because they inherently work really well in the jungle and it's retrofitting champs into a complicated role without changing anything else to make them more easily manageable for people dealing with them. Edit for Clarity: I think things like Karthus Bot, Ziggs Bot, Trynd Mid, etc are all much easier to accept and deal with because they're in lanes. It's a lot easier to adjust to lane changes than it is to Jungle changes because you're dealing with someone constantly. You learn their general power level in the first trades and can guesstimate their power going forward based on that and the following trades. Junglers just kind of appear however strong they are and you have to pray they aren't stronger than you can deal with when they're a new face to the role, which can be even harder to gauge correctly when you have existing expectations from that champion.

I for one has always enjoyed Talon Jungle

I love it when Riot force champion to played one way looking at you Lane Viego.

I played Ryze jungle once in season 10 :). It was with 4 premades but I still got flamed Would love to do it again

I like seeing Talon and Qiyana being able to flex into the jungle rather than just being stuck mid. The only time I hate seeing champions shifting roles is when they're something incredibly stupid like Tank Viktor/Karma.

DJ Sona's theme 😍

As a French humorist said very accurately: "People like novelty but not change"

I think peeps are fine with diversity, and champs goin into lanes which are off-meta. But I think the issue they are bringing up is that they feel that champion is too strong in that position, which is hard to tell if it's legitimate complaint as there are a whole bunch of factors that play a part. Familiarity of both parties on dealing with that match up, the champion themselves, items, champion synergies (ivern + reng bot), etc. TLDR I think peeps are ok with diversity, they just want balance.

Been playing Qiyana jg even before the jg buff and she was good. Its more or less the same as before except not needing a hard leash as before.

As a talon main, I already liked to play talon jg every now and then before the buff, now I have a good pick when i get autofill so for me it a welcome change

@Stachelbeeerchen

2 жыл бұрын

Its obviously not that bad. People just like to cry about everything.

I would like to see more supports in the jungle

We want diversity, just make sure they are not forced diversity When a champion becomes a jungler because the community saw something useful in their kit that could be used as a jungler, for example Alistar jg, then i agree with it If Riot picks and chooses who gets to be the jungler and who doesn't, then you get talon clearing faster than lee and ganking better than Kayn... Talon was never meant to be a jungler, riot just added wall hops because cool new mechanic and now because of it and the recent clear buffs talon is extremely unfair to fight against, if talon's wall hop had some sort of indicator before it finishes like kayn's wallhack then I'd be more okay with it since you'd have a second more to react vs the walljumping invisible one shot machine

@Wavinto

2 жыл бұрын

Zed being Level 6 by 5 min and oneshotting you in a sec with zero items go brrr

@ohbabybaby4087

2 жыл бұрын

talon is 100x more fragile than lee and has 100x less scaling and versatility than kayn, you're just crying because "new things = bad"

@Opus9ine

2 жыл бұрын

I think T1 said something about the forced diversity too...3 champions in rotations over and over. Hecarim, Udyr, Olaf / Diana, Rumble, Morgana / Zed, Talon, Qiyana etc. and everytime the so called 'diversity' comes up, the earlier is gutted making the new ones way better. Yes there is diversity but at the cost of some champions completely over taking the role leaving others obsolete. Some people dont understand this but there is counter match ups in the jungle too.

I used to play Talon mid, now I play him jungel as well which was always my 2nd role so now I can basicly play 1 champion all the time so I like it