Edit: The "AN. 35.238" mentioned should be an SN. 35.238! Sorry for the mixup! My Dhamma Book (also available on Paper): drive.google.com/file/d/1d8VYL5iOi76u1AEmyI7iGpgPP3T5FaNa/view?usp=sharing My Almanac (also available on Paper): drive.google.com/file/d/1VzAw8zHdhOsDDUzPEubTN64qhVmQhZ0m/view?usp=sharing True Dhamma Lecture: kzread.info/dash/bejne/X6mjvJWCl9erlbQ.html Dhamma Hub Discord: discord.gg/AcDwZ78ybn

The pressure thing is so 100% yes. Like, say I just want to sit and be at peace, not even meditate, just be at peace. And suddenly desires start popping up if I just sit and watch them they will build and pressure. It's honestly quite frightening watching it happen. I know it's just happening because of prior engagement with those things though. Then when I start looking back at why I pretty much do ANYTHING externally pleasurable I see that it indeed is to mostly just alleviate that pressure and get that very small fix of pleasure that comes from giving in... but indeed that little fix of pleasure isn't worth it in the end. .. it takes to much work and energy to get that little fix. It ALSO serves to keep the cycle of pleasure build up happening. I started learning this stuff before I got into Buddhism. Before I ever researched it. But, taking a DBT class helped. They didn't talk about it, but there was meditation and that I feel just lead me to learning how things work. Like, I learned how to extend the time period of joy or happiness I "got" from some external thing for hours at a time after the event. When before it would just fade away quickly. Then I was like, "Huh, can I just call in this sense of joy or happiness without said thing happening?" And BAM! It happened. Interestingly enough, you can also do the SAME thing with fear, stress etc... which isn't surprising based on the joy thing. You an just recall something that frightened you in the past and you start having the physical, mental and emotional symptoms/signs of being afraid. Then once you are well enough in tune with what those symptoms are, you can just make them happen at will. We can do the exact same thing with happiness and joy and Ajahn Sona and some others are basically like, "Yeap, that is how you get into the jhanas". You first recall the thing that made you happy or joyful and let the feeling permeate your body. Then you learn to separate the sensation and emotions of that joy from the thing and just make it happen when you want it. What they don't talk about is why exactly the pleasure and joy go away in the later jhanas and you're just left with a sense of equanimity and well being. To me it's basically, you've learned that even that pleasure and joy from the earlier jhanas isn't worth it because it too is impermanent and rather just have a lasting sense of well being which flat out REQUIRES equanimity and that one can indeed maintain that sense of well being and equanimity for rest of your life. (Which, I'm personally not there.. and fail to see how that is even possible but hey... everything else I've learned from Buddhism in this particular area has confirmed my own prior experience so....... I guess some faith is order for that last part.)

Ethical practices are a massive problem in our time. Attachment is attachment to gain something you lose something when you gain equanimity you lose attachment

The VALUE we get from indulging in sensuality, is a temporary escape from the dicomfort CAUSED BY sensual craving. Sensuality only works to fix the problem that sensuality CREATES in the 1st place. Then craving returns again and the cycle repeats. When we understand that sensuality is the cause of the discomfort/craving, indulging in sensuality will lose its value for us. The 4 Noble Truths, suffering (dukkha) is overcome by abandoning craving (the hindrances: greed, hatred, delusion...).

@OgdenM

Ай бұрын

100% yes. It's even worse then that though. Giving into the craving then leads to more sensual craving, more discomfort if you don't get it; ergo more pressure to get it it. Then it also leads to LESS satisfaction after you get it because it's like a drug. The amount pleasure you get from satisfying the craving in the same way lessens over time and you have to have a higher dose of the drug. But with sensual pleasures you have to have more extreme, more exciting stuff to even feel any pleasure. It's truly insidious.

This isn't the message we wanted, but the one we needed to hear. Discipline and ethics flow from true spiritual growth!!

I wanted to also congratulate you in making such a skillful distinction between craving and clinging (was that in this video?). I had an experience in the past that gives evidence to your point. Craving had been absent for a long time (many months) and that craving born sense of self had also not arisen. But one day I got a bunch of peppermint oil in my eyes so I had to keep them closed. I calmly sat for about 20 minutes then tried opening my eyes and still couldn’t. Suddenly a thought “what if I never see again?” Flashed through the mind and a quick but powerful panic attack unfolded. I saw then there was very strong clinging to, and identification with, seeing, that the mind would give rise to strong fear if vision was lost suddenly, and the world would become immeasurably smaller. That’s when I knew that clinging lay waiting in the dark of ignorance

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

In a sense, many types of craving (Those I like to call clinging - I am aware that it is difficult to tell both apart) will only really surface once something that is dear to us is challenged. usually, we do not even know that it is there^^ This can give rise to a strong sense of false confidence, sadly and more often than not, experience will likely humble us and our perceived progress^^ The training we did shows its fruits when things get difficult!

When hungry, eat. When tired, sleep. I’m sure this also applies to sexuality as it is apart of our nature. Flowers pollenate and attract insects with their beauty. Is that attachment or Buddha nature? Without sensuality, we would all cease to be

@jonmustang

Ай бұрын

Yea, I have been leaning towards balance and intuition over asceticism in recent times.It strikes me that the fading away of desires is a result of awakening to one's natural state, not its cause. Asceticism seems like trying to practice being natural, lol

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

You do not have to be afraid that there will be too few human^^ Even at the high time of Buddhism 2600 years ago, a mere fraction of 1/5 of the population was ever interested in renunciation

Thank you 🙏🏻

Very interesting definition of clinging. It's very practical! In my experience, letting go of craving after delicious tastes is easier than letting go of aversion to hunger. I exercise a lot and it's not uncommon for me to eat in the middle of the night. I get woken up by hunger because I didn't fuel enough during the day (I guess so since my weight remains stable or even goes down despite these night-time meals). I know I should restrain the urge to eat at this inappropriate time, but I also know I won't go back to sleep unless I give my body what it is screaming for. So I usually just get up, have a small meal and go back to sleep. I think this is also because I eat healthy and so very callorically dilute. I never feel completely stuffed. Still I know eating like this is based on aversion to hunger and insomnia and should be restrained. But it's much harder than just giving up eating for taste. To me at least.

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

I guess one of those is more tightly tied to your clinging to health and life, which is pretty fundamental!

Wonderful insights. Ordinary life is enlightenment…but our birds of appetite (T.Merton) desire to desire…to indulge in bio psycho socio stimuli and gratification…it is these that we place value on. It is only when we value synchronicity with I am-ness that we begin to enable disentanglement( by recognizing the limits of ego and realizing the infinite potential of our inner Buddha). We rediscover freedom from attachment that was originally here…we have returned home to our original face.

🙏

I knew I had a breakthrough when recently I had a dream about being immersed in a party scenario. I had a revulsion for the entire scene and scenario. The food was even repulsive in the dream, some kind of chips tasted horrible. I even rejected sensual lust in the dream. Sensual lust has also taken a back seat and I have been practicing celibacy, retention for three months and feel very peaceful in my practice. This video is absolutely true ☸️☯️☸️

@nicbarth3838

Ай бұрын

I think your experience is true if you are repulsed or lack desire for the things you renounce but if it is not the case then it is not productive.

@noself7889

Ай бұрын

@@nicbarth3838 The desire for the objects of desire are loosing ground. I did struggle with the some embarrassing cravings for decades. This loss of craving is something new but I did seem to battle mentally for many years before getting here. Only the future will tell if this is a permanent or temporary mind state.

@light1518

Ай бұрын

My brother, I applaud you for walking the path to Truth. It is wonderful that you do so. I hope my words here may bring a little distinction in what you have shared. It seems that greedy intentions (which the Buddha has said is the real definition of sensuality) has been replaced by intentions of aversion. This seems quite common in Buddhist circles, unfortunately - not all, but it is quite prevalent. Truly, what is Nibbana? By the Buddha, “the destruction of lust, the destruction of hate, the destruction of delusion - just this, friend, is called Nibbana.” To no longer see *greedy intentions* as valuable is the real insight into sensuality - that intentions of greed are seen as suffering, as bringing forth future sorrow, as creating habitual clinging, as being impermanent. Even as greedy intentions arise, they disturb the mind; seeing this, one lets go of those intentions. The object may remains as it is - what has that object or person done, be it food, a beautiful view, a beautiful person. The arising of intentions of greed, hate and delusion are within ourselves. This is why suffering may come to its end - it is not in the world. It is in clinging to the world. Where does clinging occur? It is within our own minds. Nothing in this world itself can in truthfully disturb our minds. If something in this world was intrinsically capable of giving rise to greed or aversion, then Arhants could not exist. Coming into the proximity of that object, they would immediately succumb to greed, to aversion, delusion. Of course, Arhants do not succumb to the three poisons of lust, hate and delusion. Within themselves, they have given over greedy intentions, intentions of aversion, intentions of delusion. With no craving whatsoever, the body may move and speak in the world, and interact with the world - because it is free of its grasping, the mind is peaceful, not relishing anything in the world, freely able move as it may move, largely of its own. When walking into a space with many people, and much food, one need not be filled, or be aligned with an inkling, a spark, a drop of lust. When walking into a space with many people and much food, one need not be filled, or be aligned with an iota, a speck, a particle of aversion, or delusion. Though I feel you say what you say out of a helpful insight into the non-satisfactory nature of sensuality, I say this so it is clear, that more precisely, the penetrating insight is into the non-satisfactory nature of greedy intention, as well as of intentions of aversion, of intentions of delusion. For this, one must be exceedingly honest. Yet, the truth stands just the same.

@noself7889

Ай бұрын

@@light1518 Beautifully said! Thank you 🙏

@nicbarth3838

Ай бұрын

@@light1518 so being without lust or delusions I am kinda ton on this because it does genuinely seem possible to be at a point in life where these things don't dominate us, yet I don't think we have any free will to see through out lust or delusion, when we have not, but when we have them it becomes more satisfying.

@TheDhammaHub what's is the difference between cravings and desire? Because desire for buddhism is important for attain illumination. Thank

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

Technically, there is no real difference. All of it is "craving". Yet, the Buddha said that the craving to end craving is _beneficial_ - it is your "raft" that gets you to the other shore. But this would pretty much be the only wholesome type of craving - people usually just take things that they feel are _connected with the Path_ and then assume that those things must also be wholesome cravings. That said, in the context of the video I use the term "craving" for immediate emotional pressures to get or avoid something and the term "desire" to describe that we emotionally _value_ something even when there is no gross craving present right now.

So how does one get liberating insight into anicca, dukkha and anatta without jhana? Can I achieve it by attempting to grind my wants down to zero so that I have only my needs left (ie. no craving)? I’m just so confused 😭 Ajahn Brahm says jhana is mecessary but then you say no formal technique is needed. I’m so lost

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

The reason why we do not see the Dhamma or understand the 4 Noble Truth (and thus get the liberating insight into Anicca) is that we _distract ourselves from those very 4 Noble Truths_ through our unwholesome conduct. Literally _every_ unskilful action we do with body, speech, and mind keeps us away from seeing the Dhamma. Greed is a very coarse distraction and leads us away from the Dhamma. Hate is another very coarse distraction that leads our attention away from the womb/source where the Dhamma is. Ignorance is a very _subtle_ distraction. We keep ourselves occupied with something else and as a result do not look where we have to look. As a result, the absolutely most important thing to do is to "fix your conduct". You have to gradually understand what makes your conduct "bad" and then stop all those actions. If you compare you mind to a lake, then the untrained mind would be a very muddy lake. Through our unskilful actions we waddle around in there and disturb the waters and make it all muddy. Yet, the 4 Noble Truths lie at the very bottom like rare fish or a submerged lotus flower. You must now learn which bodily, verbal, and mental actions lead to muddy water and that differs from person to person. Only then can you stop what makes the water/mind muddy. Once the waters calm down _by themselves_ (because you no longer disturb them) the mud will settle and you can see more and more things (get insights). When a compassionate Noble One now tells you what to look for in your now-much-less-muddy mind, you will immediately see. But you can ONLY see based on a mind that has been sufficiently calmed like this. But this type of calm is not ANY calm, it has to be precisely the calm that _results_ from stopping greed, aversion, and delusion. Meditative exercises will not do and there are thousand of people who could do without the Jhanas you mentioned. The reason we do not see the Dhamma is that we actively look elsewhere and thus "fuel" our ignorance. This is the only reason an escape from suffering is possible - simply because it is something we DO! Does this help?

@midooley543

Ай бұрын

Wow, thank you! That helps massively

"You don't sit down to cultivate no craving, but because there is no craving you sit down" -> Though one can go through the first part so as to get to the second, right? A forced cooling down of craving by doing nothing until one eventually cools down enough to attain this state of "I don't need to chase after or run away from anything by body/speech/mind, let's just do nothing"?

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

Yes, you can "cultivate" non-craving in all postures. It is just that the usual "sitting down" in the Suttas is related to there being "nothing else to do". Before we reach that state, we simply train ourselves in _all postures_ including sitting. But if sitting is something "special" there is likely something wrong with the way someone practices^^

@CD-kl1dn

Ай бұрын

@@TheDhammaHub I understand, it's just that sitting is already close to non-activity by body but moving doesn't imply craving by itself, it is the intention behind it. I had another question related to the video: do we face and endure more specific cravings so as to stop look away from more general cravings and Craving, in order to then face and endure those more general cravings and Craving until they are all seen for what they are?

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

@@CD-kl1dn Craving in itself has a built-in "hierarchy". The Buddha explained this in a simile where he compared it to purifying gold. You first remove the gross dirt, later stones, gravel, sand, fine dust, and in the end near-invisible impurities. Yet, you proceed in that order as the smaller things aren't even visible to us an an early point. We must first conquer gross types of lust and hate and only then can we start working with cravings regarding boredom and overall "acitivity".

@midooley543

Ай бұрын

This is such a well-formulated question. It’s like you went into my muddled mind and extracted the question I’ve been wanting to ask haha

The Daishonon :We turn poison into medicine when chanting Nam myo Renge Kyo:

The human brain is the measuring device that collapses the wave function of the noumenal; human consciousness, however, is excluded from this process, but if consciousness can alter the way the brain measures, then conscious becomes a third functionary in the collapse of the noumenal into the phenomenal. Put another way, the relationship between the brain and consciousness becomes entangled (spooky action at a distance) and conscious can then alter the way the brain measures. Is this enlightenment, for lack of a better word?

@kzantal

Ай бұрын

This sounds like a somewhat scientific theory unrelated to the practice. I personally wouldn't go in that direction, which seems to be related to questions that the Buddha refused to answer to Vacchagotta like "The soul and the body are the same thing. This is the only truth, other ideas are silly’?" (MN 72)

@OgdenM

Ай бұрын

@@kzantal , I agree with you. So many people get lost in the wave function stuff. It's endlessly fascinating but all it is going to do is keep you stuck in craving mode and Samsara. It's kinda like, sure sure, say we are just a measuring device and that once you learn to control that measuring device you can do all sorts of "cool" stuff. Teleport, fly. Manifest physical objects that you desire. But, you're STILL feeding your desires and that is just going to lead you to more suffering. You're just going to find out that there is stuff you CAN'T do an you're going to want to figure out how to do it.. and THAT is suffering. You're also going to still be craving MORE stuff to satisfy that need for thing to ease the pressure of desires. So just short circuit the whole process NOW by working on basic desires you have now and with the ones you already have the ability to fulfill. I started going down the wave function route, the telepathy etc etc stuff. I've flat out had several instances where the only thing that explains what happened is telepathy. I've flat out seen a blue light come out of a palm readers head and go into a friends forehead. I've looked into it and all I see is more suffering by continuing to research it because there is SO much horrible info out there. Also because what am I gonna do with it if I prove beyond a doubt to myself that it's real? The idea that telepathy being real and 99.999999% of humanity thinking it isn't is utterly horrifying to me. .. and that horror causes me suffering. I'm feeling it's best to just leave the whole thing alone.

Kannst du Videos auch auf Deutsch machen? Also einen deutschen Kanal öffnen? Finde es fehlt total jemand aus dem Theravada Bereich mit Bezug zu Nanavira! :)

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

Ich hatte das mal eine Zeit probiert, aber das lief nicht so gut und hat für mich wirklich eine große Menge an Mehraufwand bedeutet... sollte sich da irgendwann mal ein größeres Interesse zeigen werde ich nochmal darüber nachdenken... allerdings nicht mit der Regelmäßigkeit die ich hier verfolge!

@OgdenM

Ай бұрын

Ajahn Martin does some stuff in German sometimes.

Have you read or heard Bhante Punnaji?

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

I have encountered the name before but have not done any readings. When it comes to more modern teachers, I know basically no one^^ (at least in-depth)

@FRED-gx2qk

Ай бұрын

@@TheDhammaHub He is a very good teacher especially about cessation .

The important thing is that celibacy is a great practice if you don't desire what you are abstaining from otherwise it will make you dissatisfied, so does celibacy lead to a reduction of desire or reduction of desire to celibacy? I tend to think the later

@noself7889

Ай бұрын

I would say a reduction of desire led to celibacy for me, although I did have struggles to get to this state. Now my next hindrance may be meditation as I recently upped it to four hours per day plus another hour of Qi Gong, Nei Dan, Ji Jin Jing or recitation of mantras.

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

The answer is both^^ You have to reduce your craving to end up at a place where celibacy can be maintained. Maintaining celibacy further deepens your insight into the painfulness of sensuality and makes it harder to "go back".

@nicbarth3838

Ай бұрын

@@TheDhammaHub hmm it seems like the insights that monastics talk about can be attained from normal everyday life without reducing anything or following these rules. It may be arrogant for me to say, but it feels to me like these are more so guidelines to help with this process of gaining insight and not necessities. Personally being told to abstain from sex or intoxicants and other things just seem like obvious things to do if you want to attain these realizations. I don't think it has to be an all or nothing thing for me, my sense is that I will renounce if I no longer desire these things and not when I don't. OK giving into desire is a way to understand how ephemeral its satisfaction is, but if you never had the things you are renouncing then how would you understand this? I mean sexual drives don't disappear just because you told yourself no, and you cant be guaranteed that you wont act on them at some point by sneaking out and hiring a sex worker so.

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

@@nicbarth3838 It is beyond the scope of a KZread comment o give a good reply to this, but I will try to be brief. We do not see the 4 Noble truths because have strong _default_ habits of distracting ourselves from them - otherwise they would always be in plain sight (given that someone told us to look for them). Those habits manifest themselves through our actions of greed, aversion, and delusion. Whenever we do such an action with body, speech, or mind, we "actively" (but unknowingly) look in the _opposite_ direction of where the Dhamma is. In that sense, _every_ action that is condition by greed, aversion, and delusion strengthens our ignorance or "looking away from the 4 Noble Truths". As long as you keep those habits, you will not see the Dhamma. This is 100% impossible. Those precepts/rules are the very first step in understanding this. They "shelter" you from the worst kinds of distractions and thus "undistract" you a bit. However, that alone is _far from enough_ as we have infinitely many possible choice that we can use as such a distraction from the Dhamma. Only by seeing and directly experiencing that there is no true or fundamental value in all of this engagement and by understanding that craving is actually _painful_ will we be ready to stop all the distraction and start looking where it matters. Not seeing the Dhamma is an "activity" that we renew over and over again through our conduct. The way we behave in regards to greed, aversion, and delusion is the no 1 _fuel_ (upadana) that keeps us in a confused state. Given this, it should be quite clear that a breakthrough to the Dhamma cannot really be attained if you keep having your life revolve around the very thing that keep you from understanding/seeing.

@nicbarth3838

Ай бұрын

@@TheDhammaHub so what is the Dharma you have referred to it multiple times this in this comment, is it subjective? or is there an objective Dharma?

You’re saying that I’ll be free if I want nothing?

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

I guess in a very general way you could say that you are free once you no longer _thirst_ (Tanha) for anything in the world

11:48 say again? 👂🏼

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

Again, this is from the perspective of one who has tamed his mind up to the level of Jhana or at least very close to it. If you give the same advice to a person who is at an early stage or only mildly advanced, this very same advice that is suitable for a "pro" is in the best case leading to a lot of frustration. What I presented here is a comparison between an untrained person who _still_ would experience craving as painful if they would just "pause". If you perfect that training of conduct, people _still_ argue that you can and would go for sensual things and that is what I am arguing against. For such a _very advanced person_ (and many people think they are while they still VERY MUCH value sensuality), there would be no lack and as a result, no reason to go for things that we experienced as good in the past. They have simply "outgrown" that pleasure like and old and even dangerous toy they liked in the past. Context is everything^^

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

Even the title of the video has an "if you have seen the Dhamma" in it ;D (as in, Right View or more).

@Mountain_Dhamma

Ай бұрын

@@TheDhammaHub I feel that when I tell someone that everything is fine exactly as it is that I am speaking to that awareness already present. How can someone come to right view if nobody points it out? For example, I could tell a heroine addict that the drug is the cause of their suffering, and that the sober mind is good enough, why seek to alter it? If I was a good and trusted friend, saying that over and over, the addict may come to believe it, and put down the drugs, endure the withdrawals, and realize and delight in sobriety. Of course many addicts would need another approach, but surely there are some who could understand and lay down the burden here and now. The potential for those rare few is what keeps me repeating the Noble Dhamma, though I acknowledge there is the prerequisite of sobering the mind.

@Mountain_Dhamma

Ай бұрын

@@TheDhammaHub also I’m just messing with you XD

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

@@Mountain_Dhamma The way you phrased it, it - at least to me - sounded like that very "perfection here and now" would be the method. All you have to do would just be to accept things as they are right now and that would eradicate suffering (btw, this would only be true in a limited sense... you can reach such a state of non-suffering _without_ having understood that you are _causing_ it! As a result, you would inevitably fall back!)^^ To the addicted mind that is right in the middle of sensuality a lot more is necessary. They have not yet seen how they themselves cause their suffering through their actions. Usually, people cannot even see _craving_ let alone what causes it or what role they play in the process. To stay with the example of an addict, he _does_ need instructions for sure and I would never deny that. What I say is that such a person needs instructions that are _suitable_ for the situation he is in right now. And the job of a good teacher is to speak with their students and _figure this out_ for a while. You carefully observe them and give them exactly the information they need at exactly the right time. If you tell an addict to "just stop resisting" what you would likely be a catastrophe^^ You can only really "relax your efforts" if the mind is well trained. _Then_ would be the right time for such instructions. If you would do that any earlier, people would likely still "accept" things that carry the unwholesome root so that suffering would regrow from it slowly but surely. In short, such instructions require the Right View. Here, I mainly explained this as a counter statement and n_not_ as instructions to be implemented and I think even in the context of this video I was very clear on that^^

Non duality is part of buddhist teaching teachings?

@TheDhammaHub

Ай бұрын

I would call it a non-essential part. The term is never really used in the Suttas. In Buddhism, its usually more along the lines of "neither cling to the Two (duality), to the One (Oneness/non-duality)"

@OgdenM

Ай бұрын

@@TheDhammaHub , yeap I agree. I goto a local Thai Forest tradition center sometimes and they have monastic guest teachers. They all do some Q&A sessions. Someone asked one of the teachers about the Zen non-duality stuff and that everything being really one and the same (one mind etc etc). Also about the Theravada take of "I" doing things etc. The monk was like, "This is when the middle path is good. Being too far on either side is just going to lead you astray and into more suffering. It's best to just stay in the middle and focus on ending suffering." Not exact words from either person involved but the just of it is there.

There is nothing that has to be given up to enter reality. That's another imagination of enlightnment, while enlightnment is just what is now.

The speaker is still shacked by judgements about what is "right" and "wrong" about this moment

This is total bs The end of "desire" is not the end of any desire The "end of desire" is end the desire to end all desires. It is the end of trying to get out of this moment as it is But reality is reality It is not about ascèse AT ALL Suffering is the idea that you can end your sexual desires in the moment you have them, but no, you have them and that is totally fine. And if you fulfill them with sex, fine to. Everything is ok, nothing is wrong. That's the message of the Buddha.

@OgdenM

Ай бұрын

Flat out no. The teachings in the suttas flat out say that wordily pleasures are just going to lead to more suffering. I lost track of how may times I've seen stuff like, "Free from craving", "Free from worldly desires / pleasures" etc in the suttas. .. and I have only read a VERY small portion of them. As for the end of desire being the end of any desire? Yes it is. Including getting rid of the desire to have no desires. But, one only gets to THAT point after they have dealt with ALL other desires. And it's 100% about asceticism, just not extreme asceticism. It's about taking the middle path and NOT torturing yourself to get rid of all desire but also to not fully engage in pleasures. Really to learn to just get pleasure from simple things you have to do. Then to learn to raise pleasurable feelings just because you want them. Then to learn that even THAT pleasure isn't worth it because it is impermanent.

@thomasweiler1680

Ай бұрын

@@OgdenM Exactly. It's about the reality of this moment THIS moment And if THIS moment means "there is a felt desire" then that is the reality Trying to get rid of reality is the root problem Luckily, THIS moment is unbetrayable Trying to get rid of all desires is trying to betray reality: suffering Trying to remain desires is trying to betray reality as well: suffering All there actually is is what actually is: right here, right now No way out of that: good so!

The problem of this kind of talk is that is also still includes an intention (desire). There is still something to let go of for the speaker here.