What has impressed me the most this year is Jonas' coolness. He knew his strengths and he stuck to the plan. He never panicked, he just kept the pace high and got it done.

@dastolh

11 ай бұрын

Agreed. Always seems to have things in control. Doesn't mind if Pogacar takes 5 seconds.

@janweyant8902

11 ай бұрын

He's a YOGI on the bike!! :)

@janweyant8902

11 ай бұрын

This is what I think makes him a spectacular bike racer. He's got some serious mental toughness!

@rdklkje13

11 ай бұрын

His cultural background is also a big part of this, the part of DK that he’s from.

@bennnzzzz

11 ай бұрын

@@rdklkje13 same part riis and rasmussen are from, yeah

JV would have won the TT last year, but he pulled up for Wout. It’s not like his TT came out of nowhere.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

I never said winning the tt came out of know where. I said that he said it was surprise even to him. And certainly to everyone else.🦋👍

@rdklkje13

11 ай бұрын

@@ChrisHornerCycling Which it certainly was, he even thought his power meter was malfunctioning. And Tom Dumoulin said it was the best time trial he's ever seen, pure art, and that he himself could never take corners like that. Jonas has been good at TTs for years, but this one was another level.

@l.d.t.6327

11 ай бұрын

Vingegaard was losing time at intermediates, taking the win would have been 50/50 even if he kept pushing. He let up and made the win for Wva a certainty, but it wasn’t a certainty for him if he kept going.

@epincion

11 ай бұрын

True, plus on the rest day before this year’s ITT we know from comments made by Michael Morkov that he saw Jonas spending the day going back and forth over the TT route repeatedly riding all the corners looking for the best line whereas Tadej posted an Insta of him swimming with his fiancé. This is why even though Tadej rode a brilliant TT besting WVA by 1 min and 6 secs, Jonas beat him in every sector - eg 20 secs in the descent phase - to beat Tadej by 1 min and 36 sec.

@peakinearly_2788

11 ай бұрын

@@epincion Jonas worked a lot on his TT position. JV said they couldn't believe how good his CdA is when testing in the wind tunnel. When you look how low his bars are compered to Pogacar I think it's believably.

I agree with you on "consistency". I also think one major difference between them is their mental abilities. Jonas to me is mentally stronger, meaning he doesn't let ego get in the way. Pogacar is a natural talent but easily poked (someone, can't remember who, mentioned it in the Netflix series, too). And because of that Pogacar burns matches a lot. Last year TDF on a few stages he sprinted even when someone else had already won the stage and there was no points or bonus time whatsoever for him to sprint. He didn't even gain a second by doing that. He wants to show he's stronger in front of Jonas all the time. That costs him.

@vitico1630

8 ай бұрын

I think in the Vuelta in that stage 18-20-you can see when Sepp Kuss started attacking, out of nowhere on that last climb you could see the same thing that you are saying with JV remaining cool, and SK doing some of the same things that TP tends to do in tours, is entertaining but not tactically sound

I agree about Jonas' consistency: he has better endurance in sustained long climbs, and maintains his level better across three week stage races. The fact his outstanding TT came in the third week is relevant. Pogacar is an incredible rider and a generational talent in his versatility, his combination of racing smarts, explosiveness and climbing ability: he's such a born racer, and has really grown through his classics performances. I also think Jonas doesn't get the credit he should for his ability as a descender, and the commitment he shows - the risks he took on the TT were amazing, showing his bravery and skill and that he's not some cautious power-meter robot-rider. Jonas clearly has the edge in TdF, the toughest challenge in cycling, if not in sport as a whole. But it's close, and I think we're just so lucky to have two such different styles of rider at such a high level competing together. And it's exciting to think that Remco will be at TdF24 as well! Vive le cycling!

@oskardavidmannovolesen4759

11 ай бұрын

Well said!

@petyrkowalski9887

11 ай бұрын

I agree. Pog is incredible but i think Vin is a bit smarter and more calculating over 3 weeks.

@oliverleigh9854

11 ай бұрын

Pogi biggest problem is his greed to win stages and his childish antics. If he can decide to focus on selective stages for the CG in the tour and forget about bonus seconds, etc... I don't see Jonas being able to compete. Regardless of what tactics Jumbo brings. He needs to sort out his High Altitude weakness and his preparations for the TDF ( daily basis ) thru out the 3 weeks.

@Marco-bo7yt

11 ай бұрын

I agree! Can’t wait for the next tour it’ll be 1v1v1. If Roglic will go somewhere else it’ll be much better

@BlackSpiderPro

10 ай бұрын

@@oliverleigh9854 "I don't see Jonas being able to compete" is absolutely ludicrous as a statement after the previous 2 Tours.

What we are looking at are two different riders in terms of their talents and skill sets. Tadej Pogacar has the skill sets to be more than just a stage racer. But Jonas Vingegaard has the talents to be the better stage racer. Part of this is not just their skill sets, but also their personalities. I have posted before that Tadej rides a lot on instinct and that does him very well in shorter races. But Jonas has shown that he has a lot of patience and that serves him very well on the long stage races. In addition, we also have to look at the team support. I initially picked Tadej to win the tour de France because I thought he had a deeper climbing team. But Jumbo Visma brought a team that was loaded with rolleurs and classics riders which I thought was a big mistake. However, Jumbo Visma's strategy paid off resulting in a win for Jonas Vingegaard. One last thing. It is nearly impossible to declare one rider is the world's best because bike racing is so varied over the cycling year. IMHO, Wout Van Aert has been the world's best rider over the last couple of years and yet Wout will never win a grand tour. Nevertheless, Jonas Vingegaard has shown us that he might be the best stage racer right now.

@Je-Razor

11 ай бұрын

Completely agree with everything. Couldn't have said it better myself :)

@gobears6487

11 ай бұрын

Very well put, and agree, but I would add that I think their physiology is different as well.

@alphaniner3770

11 ай бұрын

I agree too. Apart from that, imagine this Tour without Pogacar - the GC battle would have been pretty boring without him. I hope that he will (be allowed to) keep riding as aggressive as he did so far - that is worth a lot more to me than the total count of won grand tours at the end of his career.

@andresucu

11 ай бұрын

Jonas is like a robot, and the “oil” seems to be a good one, with extra ingredients

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

And yet we have to pick one to be #1 no matter how hard it may be choose. But the good thing about picking #1 today is that tomorrow it may change. 😂👊😜🥇🏆🦋👊

I feel like Tadej spent the race racing for seconds, but Jonas was racing for minutes

@mortendmortensen

11 ай бұрын

He even said before the time trial that it would not be a matter of seconds in the end. Whatever he meant by that he almost certainly knew that the next 2 days would become fireworks.

@TerranigmaQuintet

10 ай бұрын

@@vaibhavsharma2700 Always felt that tadej spent too much time using his explosiveness to gain mere seconds in the first week and a half, which culminated in him having 1 off day, which did him in, in the end.

It is like everyone forgets Jonas smashed Tadej on hautacam, where Tadej did not have a bad day. People mention Granon and de la loze, but Hautacam somehow gets forgotten.

Talking about correct words Chris, I'd say it's a bit imprecise to say that Jonas ISN'T explosive. He's not as explosive as Tadej (who is really?), but Jonas can sprint up a climb for sure. That said, I think you're totally right regarding Jonas and his consistency being his biggest strength. I also think that a word should be said about his impressive focus and professionalism during all three weeks. I think that also gives him an edge over Tadej - but that's also why we love Tadej.

I think team JV plan to wear down Tadej with fast pace early on had an effect on his explosiveness. Over a period time. It seemed to me his attacks were explosive but just didn't sustain very long. Just a casual observation.

@dutchreagan3676

11 ай бұрын

The old 'the Tour is won in Week 3' is not old. And chasing seconds when the race will be decided by minutes is a waste of effort(s); it doesn't make sense to do so knowing J-V is stronger.

@paullefko

11 ай бұрын

I agree with this; I told some friends I think they pushed him and he took the bait. Knowing that JV could crush on the TT. TP can take the sprints; but I think Jumbo a alternate strategy to keep close and then send it in the TT.

@sweatydrug437

11 ай бұрын

Agreed. In other word, TP's input-output ratio is not ideal, he made many explosive attack after stage 6 but every attack just gave him seconds.

@dutchreagan3676

11 ай бұрын

@@sweatydrug437 It's his Superman syndrome. He feels that, when he attacks, nobody can follow him. And to some extent that's true. Team J-V used brilliant tactics to mitigate the damages to mere seconds while planning all along to 'go big' in Week 3. (Hats off to Sepp Kuss everyone!!) That's when you win/lose a Grand Tour. Blame his DS for letting him waste all that energy for nothing.

@bennnzzzz

11 ай бұрын

@@dutchreagan3676 yeah tyler hamilton said it best. you can tell who’s “on” by who’s getting stronger in week 3. that TT where vin was juiced to the gills broke pog mentally cos how can he compete with a jumbo juiced frankenstein?

Pogacar has always been dropped by Jonas on climbs at high attitude. Seriously you can't ignore that.

I'm still going with Pogačar. He can win monuments and all the other one-day races, stage races, GTs. Vingegaard's currently only a stage racer. Which, of course, doesn't mean that he can't prove me wrong.

@markc7902

11 ай бұрын

Vingegaard the best Stage races are what the world follows and wants to see. Here are the money and it is the hardest race, Period. But we need pagacar also in the race.

@TheWorldisaLIE2

11 ай бұрын

tour de france is truly the only thing that matters in pro cycling. everything else is peanuts. -Lance Armstrong

@l.d.t.6327

11 ай бұрын

@@markc7902stage races without monuments, sprinting, showing you can win on all terrains and without team support = a one trick pony. A very high level pony, but still a one trick pony.

@l.d.t.6327

11 ай бұрын

@@TheWorldisaLIE2nope. That’s armstrongs uni-sided view he wanted to push through. Real cyclingfans know there is more than the tour and value those races as much.

@schattelux4827

11 ай бұрын

agreeeee

I believe one major difference during the TdF between Jonas and Tadej is their ability to handle the hot conditions. Even during the first two weeks, one often saw Tadej constantly having his teammates pour water over his head. He got upset when he failed to collect a bidon on Stage 14 when they were about to climb the Joux Plane. Jonas on the other hand looks far more comfortable. Both Stages 16 and 17 were raced in more than 30 deg temperatures due to the heat wave blanketing Europe and I honestly can't see conditions get much better in the next few years. Tadej will therefore always be at a disadvantage unless he can find a way of dealing with the heat.

@Jan-se1nd

11 ай бұрын

Excellent point!

@MDP1702

11 ай бұрын

Yes, Pogacar doesn't deal that well with the heat, even mentioned this and that he and his team have been improving on this front, among other things these bidon showers he gets from his teammates.

@swissbiggy

11 ай бұрын

The heat wave blanketing Europe ?!?! I live on the border of Belgium and the Netherlands, and we did have 30 days of rain and grey weather with temperatures that do barely reach 20 degrees celcius (And still have tbh. Just watch the Formule 1 race that is at Spa/Belgium this weekend, and you will see what we did have for the entire month of July.). The last nice summer day was in June. 😅

@pixym

11 ай бұрын

I quite agree with that point !

@MeesterJ

11 ай бұрын

​@@swissbiggyfor the first time in years we have some normal Dutch summer weather. Embrace it because it will happen less and less in the future

The fact you were so pogačar and now bumping vingegaard (for good reason) show an objective point of view. Great content here the stuff that keeps me glued to pro racing.

@user-sj1hz9qw3e

11 ай бұрын

Shows lack of conviction imo

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

It was tuff. Very very hard. But you have to doc points from Pog for making so many mistakes again. And Jonas delivered so much above expectations. I couldn’t see any other way to go. Jonas #1 🥇🦋👊

@Nosh_Feratu

11 ай бұрын

@@user-sj1hz9qw3e its called the scientific method you clown, its evidence based.. nothing to do with your chest-beating, machismo bullshit.

@silverarrowslk

11 ай бұрын

@@ChrisHornerCyclingPogacar came in to the race without the best preparation and still got 2nd and made the race entertaining. If this is what he can do without the best preparation Vingegaard can say goodbye to yellow next year

@andershjen125

11 ай бұрын

@ChrisHornerCycling When ranking, are you considering the whole season or just present form/achievement? Jonas is seemingly better at grand tours, but the classics... not so much.

Fantastic video, great to see some unbiased, scientific, objective analysis. . . .!!! .....the problem for Tadej is that his inconsistency is a result of his explosiveness. . .you cant consistently make those big explosive efforts without a cost somewhere down the line in a 3 week race. NOTE: There is a great video of Jones/Pog TTs side by side, Simon Gerrans is commenting. . .its quite startling how good Jonas was on the descent, cornering like an F1 driver, always on the gas driving through every corner, Tadej was just coasting... Jonas took 2 seconds out of both Wout and Pog by the second corner, he came off the blocks like he was going to war that day.

Jonas has a huge engine, a fantastic recovery over 3 weeks and is super dedicated down to the smallest detail in his preparation. Therefore, as a stage race rider, he is completely unique and exceptional in this world. He has proven that in the last 2 years. Furthermore, with two victories now in TDF, he has a huge self-confidence which lifts him even further. The formula used this year, where he drives his competitors tired with a hard pace for the first two weeks, has a physiological advantage with his recovery, ability to drive well in high heat and in high mountains an advantage that makes him very difficult to beat in a stage race over 3 weeks, when he has prepared optimally. And even worse for his competitors, he continues to develop …..

almost a week after the tour,,, the thing that sticks out to me the most from the experience was "My man Victor Campanaerts" !!!

I'm glad I stuck around for the Jonas is Drago scene at the end.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

Garrett worked on that. 😂👊🦋

Not sure what interviews he gave to international press but during interviews to danish tv in dauphine Jonas multiple times said he was not peak shape yet and he would get better for the tour.

I don't think he's the best, but certainly most consistent. But Pogacar makes the Tour fun to watch.

@TheWorldisaLIE2

11 ай бұрын

what world do we live in where you win the Tour de France back to back against the #1 and then are not considered the number one? lol unless we break it down and say Jonas is the best stage racer and Tadej is the best all-round rider because of his classics ability.

@jeanholt9633

11 ай бұрын

@@TheWorldisaLIE2 100% agree.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

😜👊🦋🔥💥

@Robutube1

11 ай бұрын

We need them both IMO.

Good rivalry but as an American-Dane I really like Jonas VINGEGAARD. Great recap Chris!

Jonas Said in a danish interview tadej is stronger on smaller mountains. But when they get up in really High alitituides Jonas is stronger because hes heart rate dosent raise that much and he can almost push the same watts. He also told im the end of af Grand tour he can almost push the same watts in 3 week as in 1 week. Where the riders normal goes Down. What he dosent have is that super hard Punch like tadej. And he also admitted in the interview tadej is the world best cyclist

Liked the clarification of terms between Tadej and Jonas, explosive v consistent. Thanks Chris, great stuff! Yes, I agree that between these two over the course of three weeks it will take something like a bad day(s) or bad luck to separate them, which is pretty amazing. The TT stage was a shocker--no way I saw Jonas blowing Tadej away by that margin.

@deonvasquez9701

11 ай бұрын

w u make better sense to me chris that why i watch your show

@andresucu

11 ай бұрын

With substance vs no substance

@rdklkje13

11 ай бұрын

@@andresucu Exactly. The substance that is creative thinking such as applying football tactics to cycling, long-term strategic planning, and getting hundreds of people on board to implement the strategy through hard work, for months, even years, on end, all in support of the one rider with some of the best endurance genes out there, who also has a personality to thrive in such a structured environment. UAE could learn a lot from TJV, although this approach probably wouldn’t suit Tadej’s wonderfully playful personality as well. This said, his friend MvdP has made that switch from playful, instinctive riding to a more structured approach this year, so maybe it’s more about maturity and we’ll see Tadej do the same in a year or two.

I enjoy watching the rivalry between Tadej and Vinge. Made a cycling fan out of me.

Chris honestly I think the crucial part of your perfect analysis was when you brought up the back flip in the pool during the day off. Jonas is hyperfocused and maybe most part of the consistency you've mentioned so much comes from that. Tadej is very relaxed and trusts himself so greatly that sometimes he lacks the eye of the tiger you always need to beat an opponent that's so close to your level. I race my bike for fun and I love it, but I played high level tennis and when my focus was a little off for any reason whatsoever, I basically had no chance of beating my closest rivals in semifinals and finals. Anyone who's played advanced or pro level sports knows how important it is to keep 120% focus when the time comes of reaching the season's biggest goals and maybe Tadej needs to stop smiling a little bit and look to the Tour as if his life depended on him going for Jonas' jugular, because he's as tough as it gets.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

Certainly helps to stay focused 100% once the TdF is close to starting and all the way through it. Could you imagine pulling a muscle if your foot slipped just a bit on the wet pool edge. All year long Pog is thinking about getting revenge on Jonas and then on the second rest day before the only TT it’s play time. 🤔😬👊🦋

@andersnielsen6044

10 ай бұрын

Now this is spot-on ;)

Hi Chris, I will argue that another factor for TP is stages that have more than 4200 m (~13780 feet) in combined climbing. Actually, he has been dropped more times than hes been able to follow JV after Roglic abandoned the tour 2021. Even though I am rooting for JV, as the Dane I am, the versatility TP display makes him my at least equal to JV in my opinion. Cheers

I still think Jonas is a better than Tadej on long hard climbs, he has really dropped Tadej few times . When ITT on curvy road Jonas is better than Tadej now. Clearly Jonas's downhill ability improved a lot in the last 3 years, big steps ahead each year. Jonas can control his bike better. Compare those two's ITT body position, Jonas is more aggressive and stilil he made better performance on each corner. Many times on downhills, I saw Jonas put pressure on Tadej I agree the consistency is the most unique ability Jonas has compare to Primoz in TDF2021/2022 and to Tadej TDF2022/2023. Which made Jonas the Top GC contender. Many people just don't understand, It's not an ability most riders has !! One of my cycling friend event comments that Tadej ' s bad performance on S17 is due to his girlfriends....Rediculous.

@NightShooter87

11 ай бұрын

Jonas, is slightly better, but he's come to the age, where he will know his body, more than Tadej. Tadej, has still more to learn about himself and room for improvement. Should be good in the coming years, of how they match up. With Primoz, he's crazy talented, but he's never going to be the greatest at tactics and he falls off at important moments.

@dorte3791

11 ай бұрын

@@NightShooter87isn’t there like…a 2 year difference between them? That’s not really a huge gap

If I have to choose a race, one with Pogacar and another with Jonas, no doubt, Pogacar race

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

If no other reason then you know the sponsors will be happy cause Pog always puts on show. 👊🦋

The words/phrases you use, Chris, are always accurate and appropriate. My personal favorites are "knucklehead" and "full gas". Keep up the GREAT work Chris. Yours are the most in depth and detailed analysis of anyone who covers cycling.

@CraigArtley

11 ай бұрын

Sittin’ on the Chesterfield

@williamm3542

11 ай бұрын

@@CraigArtley Another good one!!

Best grand tour or multi stage race I guess. Pog is better all around rider he can win grand tours, stage races, classics, monuments you name it.

@Kimberlytheresam

11 ай бұрын

Jonas can't even beat pog in a one week race.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

So many ways to look at it. 😜👊🦋

I totally believe that Stage 16 was the stage. You've got Pogačar, who just won the Slovenian time trial championships, and I do believe that his team management told him that it could come down to seconds, so getting those time bonuses would be super critical. And that is what UAE did. But then you've got Jonas that has been looking at stage 17 as his opportunity to make up all of his losses. So he focuses on 17. But he also spends time on 16 because he knows that he can only manage his losses. That time trial win was his do-or-die moment. And it proved to be more than enough. His ability to realize potential loss and strategize to compensate and overcome is something to take note of. I saw one rider that might have over-prepared and another that definitely under-prepared.

I think a few good terms I've not heard anyone use yet to compare Jonas vs. Tadej are "diesel" vs. "punchy" respectively.

@stoempert

11 ай бұрын

Diesel versus EV, the battery died sooner on Pogi 😂

@henriksylvestolsen4885

10 ай бұрын

two times as well in Tirreno - it loks likes march is not his month

Thank you Chris. I love listening to what you have to say. 👊🏻 Being 1-2% off will cost big at that level of competition. I hope Tadej gets the 3wk consistency figured out. The Tour should bring back the Combination Jersey. 😉

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

👊🦋

@marius3552

11 ай бұрын

I totally agree; they should bring it back! Maybe with a different design, though... ;)

I love the analysis Chris! And I think you are right mentioning the concistency of Jonas compared to Tadej. However after that notion I'm interested in the next question: Why is Jonas more consistent. And in a broader sense, what are the differences between the riders. That deserves it's own Beyond the coverage and requieres reasoning, research and some of your own experiences Chris. As I think that there are a couple determining factors: 1) Physiology - physical characteristics (e.g. muscle fibre types, posture and weight) - and probably most important, however most difficult to assess: overall health and resistance/reaction to fatigue 2) Preparation - e.g. training aerobe v.s. anaerobe, traingcamps v.s. racing (one day v.s. stage) 3) Tactics & Strategies - playing into their own strengts and the others weakness, both when mano a mano and team v.s. team and per stage v.s. over three weeks. During the Tour de France, or any race where they face each other. And it would be good to have you debunk some insignificant factors that are mentioned in media and comments, e.g. doing a summer sault into a pool. Keep it up team Horner!

Great explanation!

Chris I’m a Tadi fan and as a result biased but I have to agree with your excellent analysis. Thanks for the integrity in you video’s 😊

Well I would like to add that I believe Jonas is the better climber on tough climbs. And he is the better TT'er not only the most consistent - but he is also for sure the most consistent. Why you may ask? well pogacar showed up on stage 6 and 9. But stage 6 Jonas had done an insane wattage trying to distance pogacar on the big climb of tourmelet before we came to the last climb. All that time Pogacar was drafting in his wheel. Somehow pogacar was able to stay on his wheel this day which proves that pogacar really is a good climber. But there was 2 big climbs this day that Vingegaard pulled pogacar on wheel the whole day taking the wind which made him expend not an insignificant amount of energy over pogacar. Pogacar then outsprints Jonas and is able as the only stage to actually take some real seconds around 24 as I recall. The rest he took during the tour was more symbolic and mainly consisted of bonus seconds. After this stage Jonas realized he cant just gamble on him outclimbing pogacar and giving him draft as the difference between the 2 is not big enough to the point that he can drop him unless pogacar has been under pressure. But that difference was there and when TT is up there is no holding a wheel and this is where we really see the difference in power - Vingegaard also showed amazing technique on the flat and descending corners holymoly I was at the edge of my seat that was some aggresive cornering. Pogacar is a really tough rider to crack as he is really strong in the mountains too. And you just cant gap him with an attack unless he is worn out. He will have that explosiveness if he hasnt been tired up during the race. In TTs I would like to remind you Jonas has won over pogacar in every TT late in the tdf in each and every year 2021-2023. The short ones with no climbs, there Pogacar is little bit better - when it is early in the tdf. but not by much, whereas Jonas is quite much stronger in the late part of tdf on TTs. - the short early ones also doesnt really favor great TT'ers in general as its just full gas all the way no pacing required. Heres the record between the 2 in the last 3 Tours. 2021 stage 5, 27 kms flat with small hills. This one pogacar legit took the win and won the stage, the time over Jonas was 27 seconds, however Jonas came 3rd and faster than van aert. But that is a legit difference. 1 second per km to Pogacar. 2021 stage 20 31 kms, mainly flat but with small rolling/hilly elements Jonas wins 25 seconds over Pogacar - Van aert takes the stage. Almost 1second pr. km to Jonas. 2022 13km flat Prologue Pogacar wins over Jonas with 8 seconds. Lampaert wins stage. Here its a short stage and in rain it could be just a few corners you are carefull in and that's 8 seconds. However its still more than 0,5 seconds per km. 2022 stage 20, 40 km mainly flat but some hills and descends this one Jonas wins by 8 seconds - but he was on pace to win stage but let it go at the last climb to hand van aert the win, it would have been 30 seconds to Jonas over pogacar had he continued the last 2 kms. He slowed down and sat up and celebrated on the climb as he knew he had won the tdf then. 2023 :1:38 seconds - staggering 4,3 seconds per km over pogacar. Jonas wins stage In conclusion Jonas has taken all the TTs vs pogacar in the late stages of tdf. 2021,2022 and 2023. Pogacar has taken 2 TTs over Jonas and those were both early stages and relatively flat, and the margin is small 8 seconds on one. The other was in rain where he took 25 seconds. In conclusion Pogacar is even or a tad bit stronger in TTs in the first week. Jonas Takes big margins on TTS later in the race. I also believe Jonas just to be generally better on the long or tough TTs either climbing or more than 30 kms flat. ie. Stage 20 2022, and stage 16 2023. Total timegap is 1:36 to Jonas over pogacar. Could be somewhat bigger if he didnt give up the big lead in TT to hand over the victory to van aert in 2022. Some people have argued that pogacar relaxed on stage 20 in 2021 as he won the tdf. I dont think that is very pogacar like, I believe it was a sign of his 3rd week being weaker as he has shown the last 2 tdfs.

This era of cycling is AMAZING!

Chris - is it possible that Tadej was sick during the 2nd and 3rd week?

@goncalomendes2759

11 ай бұрын

No

JV just targets The Tour. Just like Froome did. Pog in my humble opinion is a real racer and a better all round rider. All the best riders in the past Like Merckx, Bobet, Hainault, Coppi, Fignon just to name a few greats that raced Grand Tours and Classics and won. For me JV to be classed as No. 1 he needs to race them all too.

I love you and the way you have changed perspective. you are so correct and a man og his words:-) LOVE

This was another great video about Tadej ! Would love to see a video about Jonas. ;)

good (again) to hear your analysis. You flashed Sepp Kuss up briefly. Consider doing a session on the "super domestiques" of Kuss and Van der Pool and Kwiwakoski, etc.

Armstrong dominated the TdF and no one called him the number 1 bike rider.

@chester1167

11 ай бұрын

although he was.

@savagepro9060

11 ай бұрын

that's ALL he did, TDF, he hibernated the whole fkin calendar, just for the TDF, you can NOT be the best rider as such

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

Now. We all know many people did. 👊🦋

@markrskinner

11 ай бұрын

But he was the number one ****hole

@HolgerDanske874

11 ай бұрын

Vingegaard won all races he entered this year besides Paris-Nice. It's not like he isn't racing. And he is going to the Vuelta later this year.

Thanks Chris looking forward to 2024

Hornerism of the day: Bonifications, love it when he uses that! Bring on the Knucklettes! Haven't been following the Tour de Femme but will watch it this winter during the doldrums. There are some really good female bikers I'm just burned out on stage racing for a bit and have to save myself for the Vuelta.

Wow, that's a change of tune from last year 🤣 I never thought I'd see you put Jonas at number one, so yay for that. A little more nuance: Jonas also has better endurance, which is not exactly the same as better consistency, although related. While Tadej probably has the edge in terms of recovery. The big question regarding Tadej's bad days is the extent to which they're caused by his physiology (has a harder time with heat and high altitude than Jonas); wasting energy in various ways; being in a somewhat incompetent team (like, how much could he improve from better planned altitude training, for example); and Jumbo-Visma's ability to develop and implement their long-term strategy of making the racing hard every single day in order to wear him out. While TJV probably can't take all the credit for grinding down Tadej, without their long-term strategic planning Jonas likely wouldn't have won the TdF even once. They had to change the game of Grand Tour cycling in order to be able to beat Tadej Pogačar, so took strategic planning way beyond anything even Sky/Ineos ever did. Making the more traditional focus on daily tactics and somewhat half-arsed planning displayed by most of the other teams seem downright unprofessional. Even so, TJV's ability to actually implement their strategy is astonishing.

He has obviously modeled himself on my god like physique......ta Mr Horner brilliant as per usual ✌

When he was young his parrents bought him the same time trial bike as the ones that team SKY used. Besides that he is an extra ordinary talent. When he was 16 he was riding up Alpe d'Huez in 42 minutes and when he was 17 he had a VO2max at 97 which is the second highest in history of all sports.

@GetSuperFit27

11 ай бұрын

nice bullshit

@MDP1702

11 ай бұрын

That 97 figure has already been said to be false by his team, they even said they never tested anyone with such a high VO2max and that a VO2max number on its own doesn't say much without knowing the context.

@KnowIt74

11 ай бұрын

@@MDP1702 He was tested as a teen... You know long before he ever came to Jumbo.... And no its not false, just because you can not find anything about it in other languages than Danish. Get your facts right!

@KnowIt74

11 ай бұрын

@@MDP1702 His physiologist said..."Of course, Jonas' VO2max and lactate threshold are already very high. So he has a big engine, but it's about everything around it. So there is not one thing that makes Jonas the best.” "But we have seen in the recent Tour de France that when the conditions get tough - hard pace and up in the heights - where you see other riders lose performance, that Jonas is able to produce normal values. The ones we see at training.” "I think that when we prepare well and peak at the right time, Jonas has a really high "fatigue resistance". It is also because many people are involved and take good care of Jonas.”

@HolgerDanske874

11 ай бұрын

@@MDP1702 That's because there are numerous way of testing the VO2 max, and if it is done over a small time frame it won't really be that accurate. Probably what happened when the machine showed 97.

Well done, Chris *The butterfly effect * Keep it up...

Tadej needs to figure out that slump he experiences during those long races. Whether it be a major boost in his caloric intake or his mental conditioning. I think Tadej stayed up with anxiety all night after the time trial. That lack of sleep and infection he was getting over zapped him major the next day on the Col De Misery. I know when I'm up all night tossing & turning I'm junk the next day & I'm not riding a bicycle over the Col De Misery! Hope he irons it out cause Jonas is a monster & he's not going away for many years. Reminds me of the Lance & Jan years. I always liked Jan but Lance kept him up at night no doubt. Great to see him out and about again. 👍🏻🚴

@dannyjensen2123

11 ай бұрын

It is mental. When the psyche goes the body follows. Pogi was broken after the ITT. This carried over to stage 17 where he dropped 6 minutes. Jonas is solid as a rock. He is used to being last. He was the worst of his peers as a young rider but soldiered on. This builds character. Now he is the strongest both physically and mentally.

Consistency! I TOTALLY agree.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

👊🦋

Fully agreed upon your view point… after looking back through the races of TDF from 2020-2023…

I want to know what G's reaction was when he heard that for the Vuelta he'd be up against not just Primoz but now Jonas and Primoz... In seriousness though I wonder what effect it has in the peleton to have such dominance stacked in one JV corner. This takes nothing away from Pogacar the amazing, Evenepoel the wonder-kid, G the statesman or anyone else.

@rdklkje13

11 ай бұрын

"What the actual fuck? Gimme another beer!" Maybe 🤣 As for the broader effect, TJV developed this dominance cos it was the only way to beat Pogačar. Now it's up to the rest of the peloton, including UAE, to figure out how to beat TJV's next level strategy and planning. It'll be interesting indeed to see if Jumbo-Visma pulls off becoming the first team ever to win all the GTs in one season this year. Here we were looking forward to Remco going to the Tour next year and, bam, we get his already 😍

@epincion

11 ай бұрын

TJV has powerhouse status yes but It’s mitigated a bit by the certainty JV is replacing Sepp

@rdklkje13

11 ай бұрын

@@epincion They gotta send Sepp or Remco will win 😅 No TJV GT win without Sepp so far. Hopefully he’ll recover well enough in time and three GTs in one year won’t be too much for him.

@epincion

11 ай бұрын

@@rdklkje13 If Jonas acts as super-domestique for Roglic (and alternate leader if needed given Roglic's history of crashes) plus they have two other climbers as support why do they need Sepp? Remco himself is a great rider but he has two issues 1) it not clear if he can sustain the effort for the really long 15+ km steep climbs typical of the Vuelta 2) Soudal Quickstep as yet does not have a good GC team to support him. They are in transition from being primarily a classics team who then send a sprinters team to a GT toward being a TJV, Ineos, UAE GC team. If done with determination and a lot of money buying new riders and new support staff this takes 2-3 seasons. IMO SQ are not there yet.

@rdklkje13

11 ай бұрын

@@epincion Well, Remco has already won the Vuelta, and may have done so even if Roglič hadn’t crashed out of that one too. We just can’t know for sure. As for Sepp, it’s a bit of a joke that’s almost reaching the point of superstition here in NL 🙃 So since TJV have the chance to become the first team to win all GTs in one season this year, there’s a developing feeling that they shouldn’t jinx it by leaving Sepp at home when he’s the only rider who’s been in all of their winning GT teams. Like the winning mascot or something, due to skill and upbeat personality 😅 Other than this, having the current TdF winner be a superdomestique and backup leader in the Vuelta would certainly be a way to emphasize that they truly are serious when they talk about Winning Together!

This and the Pogacar video before it are perfect Chris Horner analysis. Here's an idea for a video in this vein: Make one comparing the Tour domestiques. There's no doubt in my mind Sepp Kuus is the #1 (overall) Tour domestique; but, other guys can be thrown in this mix, too. How about comparing them (and why Kuus' coolness & tactical smarts even when he's not pulling helps make him the best)?

stamina vs explosiveness, consistency, you name it, - Chris at his best, nailed it.

Chris you are spot on, on your analysis between the 2 riders. On a 21 stage race consistency is key. Being explosive works if you don't over due it like when Pog. Took off and won by 5 minutes but then bonked on the next stage.

I always enjoy your takes, Chris, and I respect that your gig demands that you get on the mike and take a position. But I hope we're not going to be hauling around the heavy bags which basketball fans do when it comes to comparing great players. And they always have another five hours for the Michael v. LeBron debate. And these young superstars, Jonas and Tadej, are surely affected by the wealth and fame which is already theirs and nobody ever talks about that. And look at Peter Sagan, something happened there, he was Peter the Great and then he was Peter the Guy who Signed One Final Big Bucks Contract with All of His Buds and was he even racing these past two years, not really sure and no knock, perhaps his sponsor was just happy to have him in the jersey for advertisements. And personally, i really enjoy following the races and the personalities and I'm just happy for them that they are getting paid to represent and sometimes get mighty steamed at each other in these races and drop their rivals with a 'you ain't all that' attitude. it is sport and entertainment at its best and I'm cheering for young Remco to light up San Sebastian. But it'll be boo, Remco, if he tries to take down Primoz in La Vuelta. And i grin. Primoz fan here but if Remco wins fair and square, good for him and it might move him up a notch in the Butterfly Effect Top-Five. Plus Patrick won't blow a fuse and nobody wants that. 😀

Hi Chris, love your few. A few years back, Simon Yates did great at the Giro, he sprinted a few times in the mountain stages and got time and bonusses. But then suddenly he collapsed a one stage and gone was the klassement. Is it possible Pogacar puts to much energy in the sprints for the bonus seconds and that later on he is paying double time? What did you think of Tadej on the second rest day, when he was in the pool?

I believe Jonas said after Dauphine that he expected to add a little to his form come TDF

@7:51 "time bonifications" 😂👍 I didn't realize this was a word. It is!

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

I’m not scared. I can’t be fired. 😂🦋😂👍

I used to think Jonas was beating TP due to consistently better tactics and a better team, but that TT was just magic to watch. TP just can’t seem to dial it in against JVisma. But when TP is dialed he is fun to watch. You just can’t really make a mistake or have a bad day against JV.

Vingegaard doesn’t take a single pedal stroke that doesn’t serve the purpose of winning the tour. In 2022 and 2023, Tadej has spent precious matches early on in the tour that didn’t serve him well in the end. Tadej will learn from that and bounce back!!

@LarsRyeJeppesen

11 ай бұрын

I hope so. We need 2023 to be amazing! Remco or Roglic to Ineos please. It would make an insane trio battling for the win

@marius3552

11 ай бұрын

All around the board, Pogacar is the better and/or stronger rider. He just excels in so many different races! However, I do respect the fact that Vingegaard seems to know where his strengths lie and focuses fully on riding races where he can utilise those strengths. What I love the most is that they're both pushing themselves to be the best THEY can be, and that's where the true beauty lies, in my opinion. To add on, I hope Pogacar doesn't drop too much of his classics schedule. His ability to perform in those and still challenge for GT wins is what makes him so great, in my opinion. I hope he manages to find the right balance. Fingers crossed for an incredibly exciting TDF 2024!

@larshansen4557

8 ай бұрын

Beacause he think he can going to win alene on his talent , he always forget about week 3 , winges recovery has been documented in lab ,thaths why he hasnt lost much in his bad days

After watching this tour, I’m now convinced Jonas was just playing with tadej the whole time. Until the TT

@gulfgal98

11 ай бұрын

Me too. In retrospect, I now realize that Jonas had put a lot of his work into the TT. It has been reported that Jonas spent a lot of time working on the fine points of the TT, like the corners and the descents.

@discbrakefan

11 ай бұрын

If he can do that kind of pace and just be playing…

@stevenmeyer9674

11 ай бұрын

@@discbrakefan Much of the faster pace was on the descent . let's not overlook the time Pogacar lost on the bike change. hell! JV was only the 2nd fastest up the final climb.

@jrgenlund1300

11 ай бұрын

I think you aren't giving Pogacar enough credit. Clearly, Jonas was planning on expecting to steal bigger chunks on some stages (which backfired on Tourmalet where he clearly hoped to make some gains), but he wasn't giving up terrain voluntarily. I'm sure Jumbo had a plan accounting for lost bonus seconds, but they weren't letting Pogi get away on purpose.

@Je-Razor

11 ай бұрын

@@stevenmeyer9674 Hard to compare JV with Ciccone on the climb since Ciccone was only pushing it on the climb for the KOM points where he had a warmup at the start of the time trial. JV had to push it all the way from start to finish. But JV already got about 2 seconds on Pogacar after the 1st corner.

Thanks chris Looking at the comments, you are attracting thinking followers. Well done and again, thanks

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

👊🦋

Jonas has figured out that if he can survive Tadaj's attacks at the very top, he can win. Those super steep parts were Tadaj's secret weapon and now Jonas has his number.

Kudos on your pronunciation og Jonas' name, very nice 😊😊😊

Wow. I like the "correction"! 😉👍 Number 4 until stage -- ??? Gonna cover any TdF Femmes?

@ultimatelv27

11 ай бұрын

I think answer to your question is No.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

I don’t think so. I’m watching it but always half a stage behind it seems. I got todays stage started and was 45 mins into the stage when the door bell rang. 😂👊🦋

@gobears6487

11 ай бұрын

@@ChrisHornerCycling if you see it, where did you really shift Jonas? TT wasn't it, I don't think, maybe not til St 20? On TdF Femmes maybe something at the end? 🤔

He’s the best to grand tour rider, Wout and MVDP are the best cross racers. Pidcock is the best MTB racer. Pogacar is probably the best all around racer. Lots of different disciplines. Trials. Track, BMX etc.

I think we all agree that Vingegaard is the best Grand Tour Rider in the World but that doesn‘t mean he is the best Rider overall Pogacar holds his form troughout the year + he is a far better classics rider The Grand Tours and maybe only the Tdf are the only races were vingegaard can compete with him and that is Not enough And vingegaard is intelligent enough to understand this ans focus on Grand tours

@Robutube1

11 ай бұрын

Who's really the greatest? It changes race by race of course and can only ever be opinion because of the variety between events; that's what makes the discussion fun😊. I hope that they both go to the Vuelta and some of the same classics next year - they're just so great to watch against each other. For what it is worth, my opinion is that Tadej is the better classics racer between them... but I could be wrong 😂!

Jonas is wonderful cyclist he's awesome has been absolutely game since 2021 tour of basque where he was first I saw follow tadejs multiple acceleration when primoz got ahead when peloton ganged up in tadej : ) . Only Jonas in 2021 worked with tadej because he was going for podium and gaudy in Paris nice in one climb pogacar he hasn't received a wheel intentionally since he was 19! Jonas reminds me of froome although I wasn't froome fan I appreciated his acute tactics, cadence ,spinning to save legs as much as possible really working aerobically with lungs right on threshold Jonas does same but just more racer in Jonas imo. Still big difference between him and tadej tadej would love to work with Jonas on every summit finish isolated may best man win Jonas is more cagey uses teammates he doesn't ride against tadej like he did dauphine field except stage 6 and that's smart he never did again as you pointed out completely agree. Top talents like tadej, Jonas, primoz, remco, Mathieu, wout, tadej is only rider who can beat all those guys at their preferred disciplines he beat remco not just gc in tirreno and Jonas he beat remco in tt. He may never do it again but that's remarkable. Dropped both remco and Jonas on carpegna won by 2:00. Just so many races won't list them. Liege was so disappointing remco will be another great competitor with contrasting style but both solo a lot to victory. Can't wait. Jonas on uae and tadej on jumbo visma who would win? C'mon : ) Nevermind last year when tadej had only mccnulty and bjerg. Watched you climb Mt baldy in 2010 or 11 and Vuelta '2013 angliru you talk about most but it was stage 10 I think earlier in race you set record on climb crushed it I forget name of climb summit finish rampus inhumanus ! 👏chapeau Would love to see you on polygraph for this lol. Your admiration for nibali is awesome and I worshipped him too winning all 3 gt's with panache Milan San Remo , lombardia twice , and gave flanders a go and didn't do bad. Jonas never won stage in 2021 tour he was dropped by carapaz and tadej on luz ardiden in 3rd week where tadej won two stages he certainly didn't fade that year ventoux stage was unique big mountain tadej was isolated by ineos actually riding for carapaz and Jonas did what we've come to see he's great at measured effort pushed on towards summit. Tadej always preferred riding in cooler temperatures and rain. He's bigger guy puts out power like remco but climbs staccato and and high cadence it makes sense his punch on mountain like stage 6 or that second acceleration on grand Colombier it's insane I've never seen it in 34 years as fan such fluid raw power on mountain it's like watching Gilbert climb cauberg in Amstel or 2012 worlds but it's mountain summit. Jonas raced lombardia in 2021 tadej rode away. 2 lombardia, 2liege, Flanders,, strade bianche, Amstel, fleche , he's only won 3 of 5monunents but he's dominated and animated poggio in last couple Milan San Remo. Energy and kilojoules put into those one days is so different to racing gc as you know race is always on no tomorrow. He wanted Flanders this year more than anything he raced podiumed E3 as prep no gc riders excel there. It's shorter less attritional he had no business attacking vdp and wout but did and almost dropped wout but he was too strong. All while tadej won every stage race he entered in spring winning multiple stages in each. Including Paris nice against Jonas. Lombardia suits Jonas with big descent after big climb and after this year's tour if he doesn't excel at that or liege, there's no clearer example of difference. It was bike length at E3 but tadej was was sprinting against Mathieu and wout. Jonas, remco , roglic can't do that. Remco has motor to ride away on right profile yet tadejs first gc rider since hinault to tackle cobbles and win that was 40 years ago and Roubaix. This season won Flanders against a vdp who won msr and Roubaix and wout who won E3 and gifted gent wevelgem in fastest ever time solo. That was best race I've seen in long time Fabian beating peter in 2013 Flanders putting 1:30 into Sagan in just 10 k after paterberg was wild but this was select field after 70k. Imagine Jonas or even remco on koppenberg . Just look at cobbles stage of last years tour Jonas needed bike change but wout pulled both he and roglic in form of his life but tadej rode away with stuyvens a big powerful classics rider from Belgium. Loved watching you but I think you're maybe being reactionary or gc focused appealing to new fans makes sense best of luck. Truth is tadej is younger than Jonas by a couple years too not other way around he's been best since l'avenir. Jonas was solid in support at Vuelta for primoz in 2020 but only got spot on team in 2021 because dumoulin pulled out. Again reminds me of froome in 2011 Vuelta surprising everyone and out performing team leader wiggins the way Jonas seized moment although roglic crashed. He still surprised himself Also let's be real anyone who's ever ridden a bike in and up mountains/ cols etc. hits deck at beginning of stage or training ride and lands on glutes and skins knee nevermind in stage, just a training ride, we know the feeling cortisol levels spike legs aren't flush like normal you have inflammation from impact it's not surprising he faded in 30-40 Celsius on queen stage finishing at altitude you/we know to expect that never crashed skinned leg and felt diamonds in my legs felt pain!. He ate he over ate trying to get energy to his legs and couldn't we all know that he's human. He's best when being youthful and enjoying cycling he can do whatever he wants on rest day. Criticize flip in pool that wasted less kilojoules than recon tt course in 38 degrees because that's also what he's been criticized for not being "as prepared" damned if he does or if he doesn't . Wiggins, froome, and dumoulin maybe prime tony Martin like 2011 in Paris nice have stayed on skis in tt position that involved serious climbs all are world champ level none had cadence Jonas did exiting ramp everyone thought he'd blow on final climb you said so yourself and everything we've seen would support you. If someone told you on rest day tadej would beat wout by minute and half both in top 3 switching a bike would never enter your mind you'd think chapeau. He switched to lighter stiffer bike with rim brakes which is what we all want uphill I understand other gc riders not switching but tadej has burst to accelerate and get into rhythm he did great tt. The youthful enjoyment that made us all ride in first place is visible in him and he wins biggest races in world. It's like Messi futbol/football , I'm Portuguese we say futbol: ) That's why so many love him as cyclist or young man even in peloton he's admired and appreciated without exception. I think Jonas would really thrive in giro I think he's so steady and strong for such light cyclist those huge climbs in Alps and dolomites, but will be great to see him in Vuelta with primoz, remco, ayuso . He's bubbling with confidence right now and even stage 15 before day off was first time he followed tadejs acceleration on final climb in saddle at moments so he finally was really covering his moves immediately that's sign he's strong. Tadej even said sane but again these are obvious things when you know you know. Training at altitude after race like dauphine building form payed off same time tadej was in a cast. Nobody mentions that race at Camino this year he and jumbo really set up wasn't even world tour but was perfect early tour prep and very smartbas it had such similar time trial in distance and profile the signs were there that same cadence and posture that looks like little Tom dumoulin who I'm sure has either worked with him as former teammate or same coaching tree it's same perfect posture That said put tadej on jumbo visma roster this year what races besides scheldprijs are out of question he can win Roubaix if he adds weight and focuses on Vuelta to slim down. Tadej almost won Flanders as debutante and had vdp dropping thats a prodigy not just great cyclist because nobody as gc rider should be able to beat wout and Mathieu in ronde it's been 50 years since it's happened and even then wout and Mathieu are special.. Not even Sean Kelly won Flanders and he won one Vuelta was more just incredible cyclist like a Sagan than a merckx, coppi, tadej , hinault. I think tadej has such whimsical free spirit like coppi had who knows how long he will race because he will stop not when he can't get big contract or even after losing like this year. He will stop when it's not fun and he doesn't race like kid anymore. Let's enjoy him while he's riding not get caught up in moments in with clips and clicks , subscribers. If there is rider to take tadejs place imo think it's remco time trials like world champion he is the road race worlds champion and he won grand tour which was only question on him he's monster skipped juniors like Fabian that's just insane talent. More realistic it will be few riders since he wins gc , monuments, one days all season. Jonas can win lombardia certainly he is remarkable descender with izzaguire both ion, gorka and pello bilbao I think he's the best, mohoric great on rolling hills. Rising tide lifts all ships let's appreciate the unique talents in this generation. These young men are early to late 20s ride their hearts out on every type of parcours and tell us about it in multiple languages. Sorry for letter to editor ☺️✌️or anyone that reads this just had to state some obvious points. enjoy worlds and Vuelta !!

@rdklkje13

11 ай бұрын

And I thought my comments were long 😅 Thanks for this, interesting. A few additional points: 1. Jonas has better endurance genes than Tadej, this is why TJV gave him the contract in late 2018. He had unique potential to win TdF, given the right support. They were not going to send him in 2021 because he wasn’t really ready to be a leader yet at that point. It took them years to get him that far. 2. I don’t think Tom worked with him, but they have both been coached by Mathieu Heijboer. At the finish line of this ITT Tom was speechless, eventually managing to say that this was the best ITT ride he’s ever seen, calling it pure art and noting that he could never take corners like that. 3. In theory Tadej on TJV would be pretty unbeatable, but in practice his playful personality doesn’t seem a good match for their strategic, super-structured approach which makes a rider like Jonas thrive. That Camino race you mention is just a tiny examply of how TJV goes for the GT wins by paying attention to every single detail for many months. It’ll be interesting indeed to see if they manage to pull off becoming the first team to win all GTs in one season this September!

@MeesterJ

11 ай бұрын

Holy wall of text

@johnnyjensen8805

11 ай бұрын

Jesus🥱😴

@ryanphelan6861

10 ай бұрын

@@rdklkje13 debated delete relentlessly :) cyc;ing & futbol get emotionsgoing its so easy for passion to get better of us lol ...thanks for being polite !!! I apprecuiate being so respectful whether you agree or not. Appereciated. I love this geeration

@ryanphelan6861

10 ай бұрын

@@MeesterJ sorry :) had a moment for sure lol

Tadej's my favorite but I'm glad I don't have to hear everyone say he's the GOAT and the next Merckx and so on. 🦋🛋️

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

Even Eddie lost some times. 😂👊🦋🐐

Thanks Chris, what do you think of Matteo Jorgensen moving to TJV next year?

In 45 years of cycling not even 1 rider came close to Eddy Merkx not even Pogacar and Vingegaard ! Eddy Was riding EVERY YEAR all 3 big tours in 1 year and won lots of them ... BUT Pogacar , Remco and Vingegaard are for sure natural born talented riders in this decenia . As the world best rider you also must be capable to win somme dayraces .... For long tours Vingegaard is probably the best ? But cycling competition races is more then only riding and winning the tour. There sooooo much more also importand races during the year . But for sure I respect youre opinion Chris ! I always watch the butterfly effect and youre vids, and for 90% I always agree with you because of youre neutral standpoint. Please keep on shearing youre cycling wisdom with us ! I love it ;-)

In all fairness, Jonas was also dominant in the 3rd week ITT in 2022, outpacing WVA and Pogi, so his ITT does seem slightly superior

Totally agree, but for me it doesn't matter so much as he has won the world's biggest bike race and over the world's best bike rider again.

We'll see at Worlds!!!

What about when you said in one of the buterfly efect episodes at the start of the tdf, that even if jonas wins tdf he still wont be the best rider in the world?

Can you also cover the rest of the top 5?

I heard Jonas was racing less than Tadej and spending more time at altitude.

Consistency is a word that describes a variety of behaviors, but it’s super important in your training so that it translates to races. I predict TP will win the TDF next year because he’ll dedicate himself to that goal. And barring a crash or becoming ill, no one will be able to stop him, not even JV at his very best. Just my personal opinion. I think TP’s DNA won’t allow a 2nd place to happen a 3rd time.

You cant win TdF by having a good day- However you can LOOSE a TdF by having a bad day. This year and last year´s TdF simply did not have a catastrophic bad day for Jonas. When it were Jonas´s and Jumbo´s plan he should be offensive, he were offensive, when best to be defensive, he were defensive. Jumbo and Jonas HAD very precisely said what their plan "A" were. Since their plan "A" worked they never had to pull out plan "b", "c", "d".

Hey Chris, off topic but what was the name of the video you were in when you raced in Philadelphia?

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

PRO. Just that if I remember correctly. 🤔🦋👍

As a dane i am offcourse always rooting for Vingegaard and the other danish riders. But i am also a huge TDF fan since i was just a little boy back in the 70es. Imagine in 2020 we thought Pogi would dominate Le tour for many many years. Then Jonas came along. I just love the rivaltry between those to two top class athletes and gentlemen. I honestly wouldnt be sad or disapointed if Pogi takes it next year.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

Me either. It’s been fantastic which is all I really want. 😜👊🦋

Tadej is getting old and is strange to say old before 25 but the way this sport has evolved you see guys at 20 being completely ready to take on 3 week races and before a pro cyclist was maturing after 25 even older. What we are witnessing is evolution.

@sylviahouder6665

11 ай бұрын

they are also wearing out sooner.

Tadej to Ineos? Maybe the only team who can compete with Jumbos budget and provide Tadej with the same support (tech, training, nutrition, etc.) Jonas has. Ineos has some up and comers but they need to win now to give their sponsors what they paid for. Then roglic to UAE?

@andersnielsen6044

10 ай бұрын

I am sorry, but UAE has a much higher budget than Jumbo has.. It is not a matter of money!

I don't know - this video was 75% about Tadej. LOL

Funny. In advance of TdF it was all about praise for Pogacar for this, praise Pogacar for that, Pogacar nr 1, Pogacar nr 1, etc. And now it is all about praise for Vingegaard etc. Makes me curious about tomorrow's news will be. Most important for me: Team Jumbo Visma is a real team, many riders in that team contributing to the succes, helping Vingegaard making him one of the best cyclist around. Team Jumbo Visma has left behind old-school-tacticts and embraced new-style-we-are-a-team-tactics.

I would say that Jonas´ ability to recover over a long race is better. He does not loose power and energy as fx Pocacar does over a 3 week race. He is better in high altitude and also better in very hot conditions. And to top it off he is very good time trial rider especially in hilly time trials. This years TT was perfection. Incredible to watch and the time he took was destroying Pocacars hope and it must have put a big dent in his confidence for next years TDF race. Both Primoz and Evenepoel are not as technically talented as they started their cycling careers late. I do not believe that Evenepoel will be a threat for this duo in the future TDF races. He is more talk and less reality when it comes to the TDF, its beyond he talent.

Would you mind going in depth with which days you believe Tadej was sub par?

Thinking in terms of accurate word choice, what does Chris mean by his ranking of riders as number 1, etc.? I know the UCI has a scoring system to rank riders based in their results, but this seems to be more like the college football polls for ranking teams by coaches and journalists, a mixture of results and opinion. I was thinking it might be insightful to hear who Chris would pick if he were putting together a team? How much weight do you give to winning the Tour versus other big races on the calendar, like the monuments and the other grand tours? And of course, since cycling is a team sport and you need more than just a star quarterback to win, who would be the invaluable support riders to go with your top draft pick? Thanks for helping me to think more about this sport that I enjoy watching, Chris. 👍

I think if we look at the discussion of pogacar preparation was the reason he broke. Then we have to agree with what tom dumoulin said a couple of months ago, he said that thr best TDFs have been ritten by the riders with disrupted preps. Not to forget Vingegaard had disrupted preps too.

Vingegaard and jumbo hade a plan, and They where where not nervous at any point.

it would be good to look at the actual results of the time trial (ITT), ... Pogačar +1' 38'', Van Aert + 2' 51'' Bilbao Lopez +2' 55'' S. Yates + 2' 58'', R. Cavagna 3' 06'' ehhhhh How do you explain that my Chris ???

Completely agree with what you said about Vingegaard as a rider. And about Pog, he can't be having those bad days in the future with the long races, atleast not against Vingegaard

Stage 16 wasn't really an off day for Pogacar though (consider how far ahead of WVA and the rest he was). Stage 17, yeah, he blew up, but may also have had a bit to do with his crash early on that stage.

@Jan-se1nd

11 ай бұрын

He looked cooked on stage 15 too. And he clearly wasn't prepared in the same manner as Jonas. So I think it was a combination of things -- a TT bike that's one kg heavier, the bike change, the comparable bad position on the bike (Vingegaard's ride was possible the most agressive TT ride I've witnessed) and beginning fatigue. I think Jumbo had his number and Jonas just drilled it home.

@HolgerDanske874

11 ай бұрын

Maybe not an off, but clearly he wasn't at his best. Barely beating Bilbao(not a great TT'er) etc on the climb in the TT tells me he wasn't at this best. He smoked Bilbao and everyone else besides Vingegaard on all the climbs throughout the tour.

@discbrakefan

11 ай бұрын

@@Jan-se1nd Tadej cooked and was still far ahead of the rest of the riders? He was strong in that TT. Jonas was just on another planet.

@Jan-se1nd

11 ай бұрын

@@discbrakefan Everything is of course relative and contextual, but he didn't trust enough in his legs to to put Jonas under pressure and that is a major signal when it comes to Pogi.

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

Tactically the stage 16 was an off day as soon as Pog switched bikes. Physically we all wish we could go that fast. 😜🤔🦋👍🚲

Only time we’ve really seen Jonas crack is in the Paris nice this year that’s how he finished third other than that he has slight wobbles to pogi acceleration really interested to see how Jonas and primoz work a whole grand tour together coming up

Couldn't Pogacar's crash in the run up to the Tour help to explain his bad day after the ITT, where his performance was objectively strong (i.e. it is Vingegaard's ITT that was abnormally good, even vs Van Aert)? Cheers

All of this is good & well. I think what we all want to know is what does Roglic do after this season? What does his role become in the big scheme of things?

@ChrisHornerCycling

11 ай бұрын

Now that’s a good video. 👊🦋

@TheLanorth

11 ай бұрын

It would be an unprcedented feat of sportsmanship, class, skill, power and above all benevolence, if next year TJV bring both Roglic and Vingegaard to the Tour de France and Jonas rides to help Primoz win! It would be smart aswell, because if Primoz would have a bad luck day, Jonas can still recover the TJV TdF. But first the Vuelta!;)

@joaomartins9850

11 ай бұрын

He might target the Ardennes classics, win Tour of Suisse, and go to the Tour as a plan B. That's whats left for him, we won all the other big stage races. We never know what can happen, Jonas can crash or get sick, and if that happens, Roglic will have a chance.

"Time Boneifications" New term this is how the english language grows 7:50

Looking forward to see next years stages -Jonas would want them harder than this year - and maybe Pogacar will want it the other way around.

@frankburn6312

11 ай бұрын

TdF is also gonna put on long itt to lure Remco in.