OP Swarm Hosts story - kzread.info/dash/bejne/anypvK-TipeWiLw.html IMBA Brood-Lord infetsors story - kzread.info/dash/bejne/fZaopqigdbKdoLA.html

@Erati243

Жыл бұрын

Make Ghosts remove Energy and not shield and make vipers not able to pull massive units (alternatively make it able to pull anything that can move including Terran buildings.) and everything would be gravy.

Reapers are literally the PERFECT example to fully encapsulate what you're talking about. 1 guy took the time, the hours it takes, to perfectly master 1 unit, and then use it to its fullest potential. And then blizzard was like "lol oh no the reaper is OP" and now the Reaper is what? In todays Starcraft 2? What is the Reaper? A unit you use in the first 30 seconds. Its a damn Scout-SCV with a ranged attack. A unit you use as a cheese strat just to see how far it can take you on a ladder.

@molikeur

Жыл бұрын

Terran complaining about balance is funny honestly

@Powerbelly91

Жыл бұрын

@@molikeur played Zerg and terra . Zerg is way easier than Terran.

@molikeur

Жыл бұрын

@@Powerbelly91 Your point ?

@madtechnocrat9234

Жыл бұрын

@@molikeur Your point? Every unit in game should have uses.

@molikeur

Жыл бұрын

@@madtechnocrat9234 Uh I said nothing that looked like a point but here's one : 90% of my matches are against terran, should I conclude the large majority of player play the hardest race ?

meanwhile im just sitting here going: *hehe campaign mod manager and co-op go brr*

@hanifloka130

Жыл бұрын

Same. Although I do occasionally go into a versus map with the in-game campaign and co-op units mod and play with the AI just to have a little bit of fun in multi once in a while.

the reason offense is easier than defense (like with banes) is because that makes the game focus on offense. if attacking is easier you have to attack to win but also know how to defend. but if defending is easier than attacking you don't need to attack, and that makes the game drag hard. IMO the issue is that the devs balance reactively, they don't quite know how to properly shape the game so they instead play whackamole when problems show up. it works, but it's messy.

@hanneswiggenhorn2023

Жыл бұрын

I think the big reason why offense is better in starcraft is economy. If you compare offense vs defense, on the offense side you mainly have the advantages that you can chose time and place of the attack. On the defense you can have force multipliers in the form of buildings/static defense. Because of choke points, the place of attack can fall short, but than the economy comes in. If the enemy wants to stay in game and not just be worn down by you, they have to expand eventually

@mostlytony1732

Жыл бұрын

Also it’s just easier to multitask while on offense rather than reacting defensively. E.g. It’s simpler to queue up liberator/widow mine drop harass compared to reacting in time to it. Same can be said for zealot/zergling run-bys.

@LibertyMonk

Жыл бұрын

@@mostlytony1732 there's a difference between sacrifice harassment, sustained harassment, sieging/containing and "just killing" an opponent. Sacrifice harassment is braindead, containing and killing an opponent only requires rallying and knowing when to go for it and when to call it off. Sustained harassment (mutas, phoenixes, nydus, drops, oracles, etc) is about pressuring the opponent's multitasking with your own, it's really tough for both sides. Sacrifice runbys are mostly just something to do while the main armies are tied up. And contains are basically just defending right outside the enemy base because they can't contest you right now.

@richardhauer8391

Жыл бұрын

​@@hanneswiggenhorn2023 easier=/=better. Also, defense practically means getting a better economy than your opponent and than trying to survive. If you are behind in workers anyway, your opponent wins by just waiting.

@hanneswiggenhorn2023

Жыл бұрын

@@richardhauer8391 but through the way the starcraft economy works, you have to expand greatly to increase your income, and a big economy is very hard to defend

Brood war has been out for about 25 years and they stopped balancing it in 2001, 3 years after its release. One thing I like about BW is that even if I take a few years break I know exactly how the game works. In SC2 they keep patching, trying to balance and please everyone which is impossible. The game needs to cement itself and give the players time to figure it out. Even today new builds and tactics are being developed in BW without the interference of developers. SC2 hasn't gotten that chance yet.

@kevinmurphy4635

Жыл бұрын

I agree completely with you. Glad to see someone who shares my perspective. I think it speaks to the era of gaming that SC1 and SC2 were made in. SC1 was the era of making changes via expansions and sequels. SC2 is in the era of patch whenever.

@KaikuPen

Жыл бұрын

100% agree, and unlike Brood war, just playing the campaigns of SC2 wont give you the info needed to understand the multiplayer, Since the sandboxes for each race is almost completely different with certain units or abilities omitted or added with different stats that constantly changed.

@cerber3260

Жыл бұрын

Brood war is a different game with compleatly different skillsets. You cannot compare SC2 and Brood war, Artosis made a good video on this. SC2 needs to be patched because it gets stale and figured out if you don't. That's why we see (saw) pro terrans going straight into lategame mass ghost in every TvZ and turtling on 5 bases. SC2 is easier to play overall, you don't need 6 control groups just to move your army from A to B. You have way less comeback potential in SC2, so once you're ahead its much easier to capitalize on that supplylead and win. Try moving 200 supply around the map in Broodwar, you think tanks are good in SC2? Think again they are nothing compared to Broodwar tanks. Broodwar is a very difficult game and impossible to play to perfection, that is why you can get away with "rough" balance.

@LibertyMonk

Жыл бұрын

SC2 gets up to one balance patch a year, most of which are small changes to curb the dominant strategy, or buffing/reworking a unit that's never used. There's plenty of time between patches for the meta to get stale and the most obnoxious strategies to be discovered. That's why transfuse was disabled off creep, why broodlings expire quicker, snipe became steady targeting, proxy batteries start with less energy, battery overcharge is less immortality, etc. Most SC2 patches are just changing the map pool, which is how Broodwar balance changes. Honestly, maps are a huge component of balance in both games, the only reason to touch units is when patterns don't care about maps. Like broodling or swarm host proxy siege games being optimal, but lasting for an hour each. Or when Battery Overcharge means you just can't kill Protoss with a timing attack ever.

@atifarshad7624

Жыл бұрын

@@cerber3260 Exactly. People think Broodwar is perfectly balanced when the unit balance in it is arguably worse than SC2. The only reason why BW doesn't need balance changes is because a lot the time, the imbalances are minor compared to how much the game can turn around due to mechanical issues. BW is honestly a balls hard game to master for anyone.

Simple. If SC2 was balanced I'd have 100% win ratio. Otherwise it's not my skill issue, only everything else is imba.

@fatbasterd5195

Жыл бұрын

I see what you did there. But I feel like a clown for playing this game when 10 marines and 2 medivacs mow down 25 zerglings and 4 queens and barely lose a single unit...

@Justbleed434

Жыл бұрын

@@fatbasterd5195 are you fighting down 2/2 upgrades? Are you trickling zerglings into entrenched marine medivac position? So many variables imo

@twistedtittis725

11 ай бұрын

@@fatbasterd5195 if you have speed and are on equal upgrades and surround completly you should just clean it up since queen can jsut focus medviacs they eiter die or are force to either pick up and leave or move in which they ar enot healing

I don't think the game is imbalanced or broken, but I do think it is extremely sensitive and hangs on a thread, to the point that even the way a map is designed can significantly alter a matchup for the smallest change. Mineral lines must be well spaced so liberators don't fuck your workers out of reach, high ground walls/hills are non-existent due to siege tanks superior ground defense and advantage, pillars must have the right height so that overlords can or can't be targeted by ground units like marines, ramps must be a certain size so that large armies can move smoothly, maps can't be either too short or too long because zerg creep wins in ground battles due to speed, all bases are now enclosed one way or the other so that you can, at max, only get attacked from 2 sides with a large army, and walling off is pretty a necessity strat defense for protoss and terran, etc. They added to many layers of complexity to an already complex game. I feel like Starcraft 2 becomes to volatile in multiplayer due to this, however, it is perfect for singleplayer. IMO, Starcraft 2 is the BEST singleplayer RTS currently. It is so fun to play the campaigns, and heck, co-op is amazing. Brood War, IMO, is the actually perfectly balanced game, and even its nasty imbalanced 90s non-ladder maps can still be played and be fun, while Starcraft 2 requires a lot of care and attention to every single detail in both the units and the way the maps are designed. This is why 90% of the ladder maps have all the same S shape.

@lordtraxroy

Жыл бұрын

dont forget that aoe2 is still played with its infinite skill ceiling

@isaacsteele7986

Жыл бұрын

Brood war by most metrics is worse balanced them sc2, its that the game is harder. You dont really see the same super lategame approach in sc1 because its too easy to make mistakes and too hard to play. Sc1 tends alot more towards build order midgames, cheeses, and pulling out super old ideas and iterating on them. While in sc2, super lategames are pretty common while sc1 almost never results in a mine out. And lategame and especially mined out situations is where the imbalance of the game is most obvious.

@hausu3163

Жыл бұрын

@@isaacsteele7986 i agree with what you said but that does not explain why sc1 is more imbalanced

@isaacsteele7986

Жыл бұрын

@@hausu3163 Well if you look at winrates on stuff like eloboard its bascially 55% terran, 50% zerg 45% protoss. Also they have ungodly imba maps and openly make unfair maps in ASL seasons such as when they made flash lose.

@darkranger116

Жыл бұрын

​@@lordtraxroy as an aoe2 player since october 20th 1997, i can fully endorse this statement

Things like this make me realize how beautifully complex is starcraft

@tigera6

Жыл бұрын

It is, and thats why some people are pissed with the latest balance patch, like how their change are either pointless (Banshee buff) or just completely went the other way (Hydra speed).

I think when all 3 races complain equally the patch is pretty good lol

Im really glad that videos like this about scII still comes up. It is not a dead game as people says, it is immortal.

@nightmareTomek

7 ай бұрын

It's not. It's not fun to play and a lot of players left. Just look how many posts players make how unfun it became. I believe if Blizzard wouldn't have fked it up so hard, it would be way more popular right now.

Great video, as always! I watch all your sc2 videos!

I think the words you may look for are "asymmetrycal game design".

Sc2 isn’t hard to balance because it already is balanced. I don’t think the majority of players even realize what an imbalanced game looks like. Command and conquer generals zero hour. 3 main races with 4 sub races in each main race for a total of 12. One of the main races, China, was just really really bad. It then had a sub race, China tank general, which was even worse. If you put China tank vs any GLA faction or USA airforce general you would watch pros get stomped by noobs. The community decided that the only way to “balance” tournament games was by having everyone play as random to randomize the suck. If not every player played as either USA airforce, GLA toxin or GLA stealth.

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

Oh yes, US had those bombers that would just destroy everything

@halfbakedproductions7887

10 ай бұрын

@@EsportsStoryteller The Aurora Bomber. Yes, that was a total joke. You also got kicked from multiplayer lobbies all the time if you tried to play as the Superweapon General. "no sw gen" was the standard cry.

Author, respect for digging this, whe need the place and orator to discuss such things. I am sure soon your channel will be as popular as championship streams.

People would complain about balance even if the game was perfectly balanced. Almost everyone is biased towards their main race. The true problem is the mindset of the community, not balance.

@sefatsilverlake3816

Жыл бұрын

This

@tomhe286

Жыл бұрын

That is not actually true. Majority of players agree that zerg has been too strong for years.

@sefatsilverlake3816

Жыл бұрын

​@@tomhe286 Statistically Zerg is the race that loses more than every other race. Currently it sits at 53% win rate in contrast with 55% of both P and T. If anything, Zerg is the weakest race.

@tomhe286

Жыл бұрын

@@sefatsilverlake3816 Just kait Katowice. My prediction is that Top-5 Will be all zergs. Atleast there will be once again zvz finals, of course.

@jacktracy7839

Жыл бұрын

@@tomhe286 if you were a Zerg main u wouldn’t think that lol, the best player wins focus on improving ur own play

The Carrier nerf is interesting. It is easier to A-move against carriers, but it also means that interceptors will almost never be targeted, meaning that the only way to destroy them will be to destroy the carriers.

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

You can still hold position to fight them though

@fatbasterd5195

Жыл бұрын

This comment sounded way better in your head didn't it?

@kevinmurphy4635

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you. Since SC1, interceptors were the automatic priority target. Making carriers the automatic priority target changes the way many unit compositions would fight against carriers.

@LibertyMonk

Жыл бұрын

The carrier nerf is interesting because it doesn't actually change any stats, it just makes the unit AIs not stupid. Now Vipers aren't mandatory to take them down, and Vikings won't waste shots. You can still Storm, Fungal, or Liberate the interceptor swarm though, so it's ok.

@richardhauer8391

Жыл бұрын

@@LibertyMonk Targeting carriers with coruptors wasn't that difficult anyway. This is more about all the small additional damage from queens, spores or marines and turrets, while you try to attack the carriers with corrutors or vikings. Because, you can never micro them all. I don't think it majorly affects the importance of Vipers.

Next Patchnotes: "We chopped of one of Serrals 4 hands" (The guy is a legend imo)

@redreboot483

Жыл бұрын

Lmao zerg has only been coddled since serral became the foreigner star player, they'll only nerf zerg after new high level foreigner players come out for other races(so never)

@tigera6

Жыл бұрын

What about Dark and Reynor?

I disagree. The editor and the custom game modes along with coop and the campaign are the best things about StarCraft II. The feel of the game is also really good compared to almost any other modern rts game.

@tegridyfarms6197

11 ай бұрын

Yeah played a bit of AOE4 and couldn't supress the thought that the unit controll/response time is just way to slow. Really impressiv that blizz could archive with WC3 what others failed to accomplish till today.

hi. love you content. Can you do a video in future of a comparison between the units from when they first started in sc2 to now. a side by side comparison visual comparison. Thanks!

I would also add, that there is no directly unti A beats unit B, meanwhile you have to do X, Y, Z in order to beat C and D strategies. Thanks for the video!

Some things in sc2 is absurd. I am a former zerg player with a high gold -low platinum lvl of playing so i guess a casual. so that's about me TBH i have 0 reasons to hate any unit of terran as i see their limits but... there goes ghosts and quite a lot of flame it dries out your infestors, snipes overseers, and that's actually all your offensive detection. but what really kills me is the fact that freaking boi with somewhat big rifle devastates freaking housesized ultralisks. It's not even question of a real sizes. it's just the point that existance of ghosts basicly kills any sense of building ultralisks, because 1 ultralisks dies from 3 sniper shots meanwhile cargo size equals to 4 ghosts, which after sniping your ultralisk will kill casters or brood lords. and not to mention their distance of shipe shot. DAMN they have really nice dps against light what makes sense. But as sum, we have quite expensive, versitile, low cargo, not shotty unit which can kill it's threats behind horizon. some'd say that it's hard to master. Not freaking case if you compare it to vipers which are too fast and simply goes forward of your army on simple move, it's on tier higher and have so much risk to cast something. Oh yeah, and also ghost have that li-i-itle feature as nukes, but nothing really against it, though still a pros to ghost!

@benismann

17 күн бұрын

Now consider EMP deals actual damage VS toss coz it also damages shields to some extend

SC2 took a vastly different approach to balance and damage output compared to SCBroodwar. From what I remember many years ago on a post in the SC2 early forums, there was discussion to the damage being done, which I believe was multiplied in SC2 with each upgrade whereas in Broodwar it Diminished with each upgrade. Something to that effect, if anyone can verify that would be great! But balance really changed with the new engine design, it wasn’t as clunky as the original games were, everything was smooth and streamlined for the time. New units were welcomed, but personally, there’s too much focus on worker harassment. That’s my two cents.

@petervlcko4858

Жыл бұрын

In bw there are various types of units according to size. Then are units types of dmg and it differs which size of units are attacked. Armour is just armour. Dmg is just dmg. Like zealots for example they deal 16 dmg and gain 2 dmg per upg. At the end they have 22 dmg per attack no penalty due to type of dmg. Armour just reduce how much dmg units deal for example 6 defend reduce dmg by 6 dmg (less) in conjunction with size/type dmg penalties. Very easy and straightforward. More dmg you have more you deal. More defence you have more you reduce the number (digit) of dmg/attack. Shield of protos take always full dmg and not penalty is included.

@StrigWilson

Жыл бұрын

@@petervlcko4858 there was also weird examples of damage types in brood war, vultures for example doing explosive damage and a few others

@petervlcko4858

Жыл бұрын

@@StrigWilson yeah I mentioned it by very bad English in second sentence. Vultures are good example where unit get penalty for attacking bigger targets. Opposite was tanks or dragoons which has penalty to small units. But most important thing for me in bw is that there are no other types of armor. Just size penalty related to certain types of (let say sources of) dmg.

@StrigWilson

Жыл бұрын

@@petervlcko4858 I didn't notice that part of your comment lol, SC2 unit counters are a bit too hard of counters in my opinion.

@hausu3163

Жыл бұрын

sc2 needs to stop being all about worker harass its getting so boring and predictable and you can see extremely high level players losing so many games causes cause of 2 banelings…

You surely know how to bait people into commenting with these topics)

Great videos! Keep it up!

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Protoss seemed to be most screwed faction from latest mod

@Justbleed434

Жыл бұрын

Right on. As a terran main i thought that increased movement speed on a few units constituting to "buffs" is ridiculous. Protoss got the short end of the stick.

The whole point of RTS is to simulate warfare. Even Chess and Go are in a way training platforms for war time strategy and thinking. In that way Starcraft is the most realistic simulator. The fact that the races are unbalanced and that those balances changes over time, just like in real life, make the game even more compelling to play and even more realistic. Frankly the unbalances and rebalancing efforts should keep the game alive!

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree

@d0k0night

Жыл бұрын

That's fine, but *entertaining* warfare needs to be all about lots of skirmishes everywhere on the map, and not just one person sitting back macroing up, and one person always feeling they have to harass and pressure. We need to all races equally use little points and attacks, earn their expansion(because it should be dangerous to just assume it's free).

Great video my guy! ❤

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Is it imba Or do I suck?

I love the latest patch buffed Ultralisks and Brood lords even though Zerg were winning tournaments, cause as a Diamond player, I didn't even bother making them anymore before the patch

The problem with sc2 is that its hard to balance a three race system. But its also hard to balance a race like zerg where their units literally do everything in the game. Zerg needs to be nerfed a lot more than people like to admit. A zerg is able to have a lot of info early game with little scouting and creep keeps them well informed. honestly i think the only real challenging matchup is PvZ and its not even that hard of a fix .idk why game devs havnt thought about this. Zergling and baneling run bys are too strong vs protoss. how many times have we seen a solid fight with two high teir z and p players only for the toss to lose half their eco by mass zerglings the Z player made. Mass produced units you can que up commands to cant be expected to be defended by someone. A z player can literally send a bunch of zerlings. you might ask, toss can send zelots, yes they can but zelots dont crush workers as fast as lings can, theres often not that many of them. A simple solution is to have an upgrade for photon cannons that, when near a nexsus do AOE splash damage to light units .this upgrade should be on a later tech builds liek robots bay or something so that it cant be used early. this also stops really stuipd muta transitions that leves protoss dead. thiis is lack of statck strong aoe is what makes pvz so hard for P. this also makes very litte difference in the micro battles of mid game and doest effect run bys from roaches etc etc.

@ZiaurRahman-up2ii

Жыл бұрын

Spot on mate!

@benismann

17 күн бұрын

Thanks for your input mr terran

Thank u brother! For the content you are making! I enjoy it so so much and you are talking about current stuff. Not old ass shit that happen 2002 that was then relevant..... There will always be that one toxic person that if things doesn't go there why they will complain. So where the new balance patch is in the zergs favour... then it is the task of the terran and protoss over come the favour.... that is why not one game in star craft is the same.... and that is why we love and will always love SC2

I think the fact that players constantly whine about the rules is a symptom of evolution of SC2 as an E-sport I mean, look at traditional sports. When has your team actually lost a match for honest reasons, and not because the judge was bribedt, the coach picked the wrong players, or, i don't know, the fucking sun was in the player's eyes?

Love your take on this man, so agree with it.

Blizzard employees making sure community goes monkey just before big events it generate news.

My thoughts, as a bronze player, is that if you think that one race has an advantage, you can switch to that race.

@adarvirohfanbelarus8889

Жыл бұрын

I am gold and trying that Taskmaster's playstyle. Sometimes you want to sawp to main race when have lack of control. But about enjoying the game its very nice and informative. Because in medium league there a niche strats and playstyle, and no master stream will tell you about it. For example for protoss mass hydra hit and run is pain, but trying it myself I found that it countered by f2-ed mass colossy (4-8) in death ball

@halfbakedproductions7887

10 ай бұрын

I'm Plat and picked Zerg as my main race years ago. I occasionally dabble in Protoss but even after all this time I'm still more or less a disaster as Terran. Got a friend in Masters who is pure Terran. He sometimes goes Random for lolz and you should hear his reaction when Zerg comes up. He hates it, it's hilarious and he plays Z like a Silver. Why do I like Zerg? Because to me it feels more like a "turnkey" race and it's easier to macro and amass resources. Terran in particular seems to require near constant tinkering and micro.

I agree with the last sentence only, if we exclude Brood War.

I have played starcraft one since launch day. Did my time in SC2 and ranked high and realized I didn't have the energy. But I've been watching competitive for years and loved it so much. ZvT was my ideal but protoss is so fun except for cannon rushes. These last 2 years I have been getting bored of zerg play. It's to easy to stop rushes. So it's either over in minutes or a boring grind.

I genuinely dont care. I just watch whatever Winter Starcraft uploads.

Zerg has been IMBA for a long time, with vastly superior econ, powerful AoE units, mobility on creep, quick tech switch, etc.

@benismann

17 күн бұрын

"powerful AOE units" You mean the one that can't even kill a marine in 1 shot, die on detonation AND have to get into melee range to do anything in the first place? sorry but siege tanks sound way more powerful considering they dont die after shooting..

My response to 90% of people that complain about balance is "git good" any race that is a league above can smoke the lower person nomatter what race, a lot of people like to blame the game instead of themeselves when they lose with the changes that are so minor that they are probably not even good enough to be effected by.

@attractivegd9531

Жыл бұрын

Spectators would like to see other races win too. Its not just a mater of players imo.

@jaxenosborne1250

Жыл бұрын

I think this is disregarding pro players and talking about the general player base

@raydafuq3570

Жыл бұрын

@@attractivegd9531 well then these races need better players simple as that.

SC2 at lower level is totally different experience.. i think harashing workers for example is waste of APM since everybody bathing in resources (i know its count as scouting too).. destroying production building are more pain in the ass :) same like in DOTA 2, some of the heroes are looks ridiciously powerful at beginers but it have no chance at higher levels.. most of the videos just confuse new players

There was once a TvT game, and one of them shouted, "terran OP"

The thing with sc2 is thaat certain units cant fight with each other , lurker can't attack bc and corruptor can't attack thor. For example , also the AoE of most of the units are insane , also the fight are relatively quick and you can rarely won a fight with 2/3 of the ennemy supllie involved , In the same time workers units die quite quickly . The game is agressively designed with brutal units and brutal results. Also the maps seems to be make for long games which are totally contradictory with the brutal design of the games. Also corruptor have an insane amount of pv for a tier 2 unit.

@fatbasterd5195

Жыл бұрын

Corruptors are litteral piss units. The roaches of the sky. I only make them if I have to.

@hausu3163

Жыл бұрын

yea maybe the lethality of the game is too fast, the worker harass thing is getting boring predictable and unbalanced, but they dont care about sc2 its been a long time so they dont adress that

@anghainguyen9951

Жыл бұрын

@@hausu3163 well it kinda same for most of RTS you always want to target they supply resource first. Even in warcraft3 that heavy unit mirco a lot of good hero unit often the one that can harass worker line soon or later

Would like StarCraft to revert to the previous patch as mentioned by beastyqt who's since moved on to AoE4. He mentioned there was a previous patch that was the sweet spot a lot of back and forth trades with immense pressure. Players that tech up would prove costly.

does rewind interaction please the algorithm?

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

Yes

The ghost nerf really throws me off a lot. At first I didn't think it was that big but I see how big it is now

@Erati243

Жыл бұрын

oh noes, you have a 25% smaller radius to reduce protoss units health by 50% with the click of a button and you cant snipe from an infinite distance anymore. Whatever will you do.!!?? Ghosts were op before and are still op. can reduce every protoss unit health by 50% and can snipe every zerg unit... cry more please.

@richardhauer8391

Жыл бұрын

Ghosts have 2 supply. For a 150/125 unit that is very little, wich makes they great late-game, where supply efficiency is important. Together with the cyclone-change this helps the struggling mech strategies.

@Erati243

Жыл бұрын

@@richardhauer8391 What? nothing you said makes any sense in the conversation being had.... you are talking about a barely NERFED unit (which wasn't really a nerf since it was really a 25% base ability raidus increase and saves time and resources of the upgrade) and say it helps mech? wtf were you smoking when you made this post?

@adarvirohfanbelarus8889

Жыл бұрын

@@Erati243 50% - are u bronze one, how much toss units have 50% health in shields?

@viceroy___

Жыл бұрын

Good riddance.

I only have played SC2 quite casually and really enjoy what it is SC is all about. I watch the Pro Games because I understand just enough of how SC works to know just how good you need to be at that level. Honestly makes Chess not that impressive. But to 'balance' this for all skill levels would be impossible. Due to SC history, they should balance it to the top, cause everyone else has their own cognitive inabilities to worry about first before they should be complaining about why their game is so hard for them.

i would say that starcraft have only 3 races without an item shop or xp level up system starcraft is way more balance than lets say league of legends or any game that is evolved with to many charas races item system and xp level up system also starcraft is just as limitedless as age of empires 2 or smash bros melee

@MrDdz

Жыл бұрын

punctuation. Nobody's going to read your shet.

What SC2 lacks that SCBW has is the endurance of the units. an A-move in SC2 would last at about what? 5, 8 seconds max? in SCBW, battles last much longer giving the player an opportunity to micromanage units. In sc2 its mostly about macros and bomb cheeses.

2:02 my nightmare tvz

Blizz will constantly change and tweak the game to create minor imbalances, nagging and complaints to capitalize on that, also, while players will try to adjust themselves to new realities and create new strats, and update old strats. That's why they tweak small. If they tweak big and cause big changes - it may cause huge backlash or worse. I guess, it's part of the sales strat.

@cavemantero

10 ай бұрын

sales? The game is free. lol. They aren't supporting the game anymore even. They're only doing it because they have an advocate that still works there for pro play.

1:05 - Hard to switch races. To add to balance discussions, people should analyze why Terran and Zerg pros off-race Protoss (Maru, Reynor, Dark, Scarlett) even in tournaments. There were even some interviews last year when Serral was saying he was also practicing to off-race. I can't recall a time in Sc1 or 2 where a bunch of high level pros off-race to a specific race.

@Leonhart_93

Жыл бұрын

That's BS, classic latching on a narrative that is convenient for what you want to say. The only one that off-raced protoss in actual tournaments was Reynor. And he was never better than the top 3 protoss players. Doesn't seem to do that anyone, probably ever since that one time when he lost to Serral hard in PvZ. And actual off-racing in non-serious scenarios is done by every pro player. For example Serral prefers terran to protoss as off-race, and Harstem off races all 3.

@Eldinarcus

Жыл бұрын

@@Leonhart_93 Ever heard of Scarlett? She destroyed a couple top pros with her Protoss off race back in heart of the swarm. A couple months ago when Reynor was offracing he absolutely was top 3 Protoss at the time, he was beating Dark a lot, and destroyed many top EU Protoss in PvP. The mechanical skill of the top Zergs is so much higher than the top Protosses at the moment. There isn't a single Protoss pro that could off race Zerg to 6.7-7k mmr no matter how much they practiced. However there are 4 Zergs(Serral, Rogue, Dark, Reynor) who could easily off race Protoss to 6.7-7k mmr given a couple months of dedicated practice.

@Leonhart_93

Жыл бұрын

@@Eldinarcus Firstly there are no pros that actually off-raced zerg seriously, period. I am not sure why you are making this some kind of cutoff, ultimately any pro doesn't have time to play around and get better at a race compared to the one they've invested 12 years into. They play around because they want to better learn other races strengths and weaknesses, that's it. Secondly, Reynor doesn't do that anymore? Why? Because it was clearly playing around on some level, he wasn't good enough to beat top 3 players like he does with zerg.

@Eldinarcus

Жыл бұрын

@@Leonhart_93 lmao, he was taking some of the greatest players of all time to map 7 in online tournaments using his offrace. Serious or not, that's crazy impressive. The best Protoss players in the world are usually mid GM trash at offrace. Whereas Reynor could easily be a professional Protoss player. You're huffing copium.

@Leonhart_93

Жыл бұрын

@@Eldinarcus I don't get you point at all, or what stake do you have in this. Pro players are humans too, some are better, some are worse.

Thanks, but a lot of water Improve next time

The difference between top pro gamers and rest is, top professional gamers don't spend time complaining about the balance, they look into it and find ways to counter it. That is why the massive differences between top 10% of players and the rest. In a way it reflects real life where people with no money complain about how hard it is to make money and people who make money because they found ways to make money in that system.

The game is balanced. But losing feels unbalanced. Statistically zerg win 2% less games than T or P. But that is not a significant difference. Achieving that in such a complex game is impressive

Blizzard should hire Ryhme n the group from GGG community the best Mod maker

Impossible to balance 3 races... hahahahahah (cries in warhammer 40k)

in a game if everyone is overpowered no is overpowered also even if it looks broken then the game is good because its fun

@razorback9999able

11 ай бұрын

That's what made the Command and Conquer games successful.

Neural parasite got this homeboy

Protoss effortless

There are too many problems with the game to list, but here are a few of the biggest ones: - The races are not equally incentivized to attack/harass. When one race has to "apply pressure", and the other just has to counter and swat the attack away...one race expends more resources and has to do actual economic damage or fall behind...that is not good gameplay. - Maps are designed to favor Zerg, with default Overlord perch positions so they'll always know if the enemy took their expo...free scouting info which for some reason, mapmakers felt they had to incorporate into nearly every map. But refused to give terran any advantages they had before, eg. siegable positions. All the maps took great pains to disallow terran strategies but enable Zerg ones. - Stronger and stronger anti-harass options available...reapers serve what purpose now, outside of just early scouting? Cyclone design being changed over and over as if they couldn't make up their minds on what it should be. Siege tank with so many counters that it feels like a relic from BW. You siege up, get many one shot off before it's overwhelmed.

@benismann

17 күн бұрын

"- Maps are designed to favor Zerg," And now we have crimson court... yea. Reaper cliffs, ramps that allow easy wall-offs, gazillion siege tanks corners and stupid spaces behind minerals in some cases. Not to mention ANY cliff is auto-terran favoring since medivacs are a stable and siege tanks benefit greatly from those kinds of positions (not toss favoring coz they're used by like stalkers and colossi and later ones aren't even that good currently)

i just watch SC2, i dont play it. but i feel like what people dont appreciate enough is the question of what actually is balance? its impossible to balance a game completly, just because every player is different. is it well balanced to make a strategy that requires 10 APM as good as one that requires 100? obviously not, one requires more effort and that higher effort, greater display of skill and risk should be rewarded. but how much more, how many mistakes does the 100 APM strat allow before the 10 APM strat should win over it? i think it boils down to 3 core concepts: 1. offense should be stronger than defense, obviously, otherwise there is no incentive to attack. 2. more difficult strategies should be stronger 3. more nieche strategies should be stronger and therein lies the problem already, different players will have different skill, in one bracket, the difficult strategies will be the only viable option, in others, the easy strategies will dominate. finding a balance point is nigh impossible. and this doenst even consider economics, like being greedy, punishing greed and all of that. you cant really tells whats right. you can only tell whats wrong and even that is hard and debatable.

Perhaps, like with broodwar, we should be trying to balance the game though the maps themselves. I've heard reasons why this isn't possible with SC2 because of how much more mobility there is but that just sounds like a cop-out. The campaign and various custom games have so many creative environmental effects made that surely something can be used to help equalize a match up if certain maps favour one race over another. But maybe drastic map changes should be saved for the future when Blizzard stops balancing SC2 for good.

@petervlcko4858

Жыл бұрын

Hehe so cut the mobility in game if that is the problem of balance. You speak with clarity.

@hausu3163

Жыл бұрын

no, it is not possible to balance sc2 only by maps. Artosis and some pros already said that would not work.

@hausu3163

Жыл бұрын

you can try it of course and may be “decent” but it will never be even close to good balance

It not balance since SC1, player should select each strength point of each clan in difference tactic

SC2 will never be perfectly balanced, but I think this new patches had people doubted if whoever is doing balance is acting on good faith. No logic from the past several years will lead to the conclusion that Zerg need buff and Protoss need nerf.

I think is balance Sadly that most of Chinese player can’t play it now😢

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

:(

We need to stop calling them ‘balance’ changes. It not about balance it’s about tweaking the game and helps it fresh. Lessers used units now get used, over used ones drop.

@cavemantero

10 ай бұрын

100% agree. How many times do we have to watch MMMM ling/bane or roach all in? It is so tired.

My take from All levels, is that once you know what you want to do, 95% of the game becomes fighting the utterly ASS controls. 500+ APM and Serral is still spending like 1/6th of his total time moving drones to bases and injecting. That's a terrible design. Get rid of "housekeeping" and "base chores" and let us see these players micro and strategy, not their Sim City simulation.

I'm in Plat. Ladder right now is borderline unplayable - it's just a shitty arms race to see who gets mass Carrier or BC first and it's now the worst I've ever seen it. The only way to stop that is to do some cheesy T1 all-in to try and gg them early, or you can just turtle and do your own mass air. At that point it's a numbers game and a coin toss. No joke - about 75% of matches at the moment are mass air. The other 25% are old school cheese like cannon rush and proxy rax. The latter I can live with, but Blizzard _really_ need to sort out mass air because it's all anyone ever does. It's boring, it's repetitive, and it's impossible to stop once it's really got started. I'll give them one last chance to take a proper look at mass Carrier, but if the next patch doesn't deliver, I'm giving the game up. Life really is too short.

@oldoddjobs

10 ай бұрын

Unfortunately vipers and ghosts are not unlocked until you reach masters

They need to buff Stalkers. They are complete trash for the price .

@razorback9999able

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, it's discriminatory to players who were bad at micro.

The fact that zerg can always win and have lost way way more resources is the only evidence one need. In TvZ or PvZ always zerg lose x2 and x4 more resources and win with equal unit count. The tolerance of un efficient trading is crazy in this race.

1)imba is the beinlings because the only unit that will counter any terran, the best zerg unit, their counter is the marauder by slowing down, otherwise the beinlings roll too fast and the widow mines do not have time to blow them up.I haven't mentioned this yet about how they just harass workers and demolish planetary fortresses at the price of a planetary fortress! because of what the planetarium seems useless to me.and they can delay the push of a one-based terran by demolishing 2 saplays with 5 beinligs crashing into baracs,because of what they slow down the push of any 1-base terran . 2)ravager imba, but it is now sniped by terran ghosts as it should be. So I forgive you. 3)and the protoss have disruptors, my tanks are helpless, because in a straight line the protoss takes the sieged tanks for free, THEY can't even shoot back,When I scan!a huge skill of protos, I hope that I was just unlucky to meet such people, because it requires a lot of attention, probably. 4)I would like to use the transformation of helions faster so that he has time to harass the workers, they can pass, but because of the duration of the transformation, the zerglings from the middle of the map will come and eat them faster than they kill the first worker. 5) I would say that the phoenixes are imba, but in real life, the USA relies on f-16 fighters, so it probably should be, and I don't know how to play against it. 6)roaches with speed!these creatures run like marines with a stimpack and zealot armor. 7)Marines are being made too or too slowly, I can't decide because 17 seconds is not something you will be distracted by every 17 seconds 8)a long-standing problem that is called a skill! Protoss and Zerg can order Units until they lose the possibility of hiring,that is, shoot until it stops, and Terran has 5 places in the queue to order, but losing money at the same time!I would like to limit the queue slot to 2 or at least 3 cells, or have it be optional in the game settings 8)The problem of terran mechanics is to find my reinforcements, which cannot be tied to a group, I have experience solving this, but this change completely deprives the Protoss of winning using stupid mistakes of the opponent, and this will be another game(as a game being developed by frost giant studio) so I don't know if something needs to be changed here.the imperfection of mechanics sometimes attracts players more, for example, the popularity of Starcraft 1 is higher than the popularity of Starcraft 2 in south Korea,even the fact that a EVERY worker does not require personal attention to be sent to extract minerals in starcraft 2 is very strong casual-ing of the game

@stephencraig3176

Жыл бұрын

1) banelings are countered by widowmines (targeted on banes), tanks (targeted on banes) and if the zerg isnt microing the banes just sending maruaders forward is insanely cost efficent for terran. when banelings are correctly controled they are really really good, but the better the terran controls the easier and easier it becomes for the banelings to do nothing. Also banelings trading into a PF is one of the only ways zerg has to break expansions without commiting the whole army to it, it's extremely cost inefficent for the zerg but zerg should have more eco which is why it's even an option for them. 2)ravagers are great 3) disruptors are brutal they are such a badly designed unit 4) you can speed up the transformations with an upgrade to nearly instantly, but even with it you generally want to stay as hellions to kill workers as if they try to run they will line up and take massive loses. you'd transform to hellbats if you wanted to try to kill a building or take out a queen/spine or if your hellions where trapped and wanted them to trade slightly better 5) you just need to be really careful about the positioning of your important units and when phenoix come into the mineral lines try to target fire already hurt phenix. 6) yes, but they have way lower dps, cost twice as much in supply + gas and they scale really badly, roaches can be really nasty but most roach styles also have a really hard time dealing with multiprone and cant really push into heavily defended areas 7)que up more than 1 marine at a time. unless you are top 100gm you should be queing up a little. also terran production (at least to just make the units) is the easiest so you can keep looking at your army as you hit production hotkey, make medivacs, tab make tanks, tab dump rest of minerals into marines. 8)this is a fairly minor problem in early mid game it's not that hard to avoid doing this and in the late game this can even be a small benefit 8 again) i would highly recommend putting a camera location over your natural wall and rallying all your production there. this makes it very easy to always find them and helps defend vs counter attacks. (or if other guy is being very passive you can always rally point across the map as part of your push but this is very risky vs higher level players) However i do know the feeling of almost winning then looking back and seeing 30supply of stuff stuck at home in simcity or sitting there which then leads to them breaking your army and killing you.

@benismann

17 күн бұрын

First time seeing someone complain about ROACHES out of all things

@beardnick1748

16 күн бұрын

@@benismann I still think that Roach is too good unit in ZVT, The problem in the early game it repels all cheese of helbats and cyclones It also holds back the Terran’s bio well, in short, it’s a universal unit that can counter any surprise other than air Threat, doesn’t even need to scout bio there or mechanization! just protect yourself from liberators, just better mechanics hardcore,make more queens and workers, roach-mech of zerg is a mobile stone unlike ,The price of roachvaren should be doubled! otherwise enemy play very greedy ! Now since then the morph time of the ravagers has been nerfed, that is, the cheese of 3 ravagers with the transition to macro is irrelevant.Then Zerg cheeses in Roachwaren are countered by infantry or scout,But this delays the game and disrupts all the Terran cheese, it turns out that the game is delayed when the Zerg simply played according to the script without thinking at all, so the price of Roachwaren should be raised as a defensive tool,If you're all so protective then you should have one less Hatchery

Carriers are completely worthless now. I won't be building any for the foreseeable future

my problem with Starcraft2 and RTS games in general is that they are highly misleading. They are games made to be fast enough and complicated enough to have a near infinite skill cap, meaning the best players are the fastest players. None of them are any good at strategy at all, and the game has nothing to do with strategy. It could be about strategy, but it isnt, its about reaction speed and APM with 0 interesting strategic maneuvers or plays. I havent seen a single SC2 game where I was at all impressed by the players strategy, just their speed. I wish some dev would wake up and create the first real time STRATEGY game in history, since we have never had one before.

@halfbakedproductions7887

10 ай бұрын

Exactly. I watch esports and Koreans, and what do I see? The same old Diamond and Masters builds just done at 14bn APM. It was the same with Destiny doing his troll matches back in the day. They're still cannon rushing, they're still doing reaper harrass, just more quickly.

@benismann

17 күн бұрын

Serral is slow-er tho

People don't want a perfect balance. People want to experience exciting games. And letting Zerg sit in a favourable position, is not exciting at all. Also Terrans and Protosses tend to perform more poorly in BO5s and BO7s. In my opinion it's better to rather overnerf the dominating race and partially roll back if needed instead of doing slight niche nerfs which seem to not have a change in the big picture at all. I understand why they don't want to make big changes before IEM but why not doing a patch earlier then? It's not breaking news that Zergs are performing better in a tournament situation.

@Taunt61

Жыл бұрын

But game still needs to be playable. A couple of zerg players might be winning, but zerg is the least represented race in grandmaster, while half of grandmaster is protoss. so if you nerf zerg so that serral and dark and reynor don't win, GM will only be protoss and terran. in grandmaster people are already complaining about playing only against protoss, imagine it being literally so. easier to just ban serral dark and reynor from competing then there will be only terran and protoss champions and the "my race doesn't win" people can be happy to watch TvP all day every day.

@NevarKanzaki

Жыл бұрын

@@Taunt61 Not saying I come from a really experienced position on this but to me, the problem is simple. Toss does really well up until you get to the tippity top. Zergs are dominant at the top but not really a problem below that. The most obvious answer for this is the threshold of defense. The best zergs are capable of defending against the aggression and harassment. Due to offense being a more easily active and trainable thing, you'll probably see a disproportionate amount of offensive skill when not at the highest level. On paper, Zerg defends just fine but once you drop down from the top level, there's enough chinks in the armor to be exploited. Yes, the best terrans are better at harassment than your low GM terrans and the best toss have better oracle harass than the low GM toss but the defensive ability of the top zergs vs low GM zergs is much, much greater. Also, I suspect how faithful one is with injects and creep spread has a sharp difference. So it isn't about making one strictly better of worse. I think it is that zerg is a tricky spot to balance because you have to pressure them and or you have to deal economic damage and a good amount of it. To actually balance it, you'd need to narrow the gap a bit between how good Zerg defense is with micro vs not by making the best defense not quite as good but also with less control required. Yes, that is a call to make that aspect slightly less skillful. I think this particular matter along with Zerg's economy and control being so much more different based on how good you are due to injects and creep make for a lot of the balancing problem where they're concerned. Where Toss is concerned, their balance issue I think comes from warping. Gateway units are generally either not so good or need to be massed with not such great in between. If you don't like toss going up into the sky for mass carriers, you need to give them options and I mean more than "go do an all in". They rely on late game carriers a lot because late game ground comps boil mostly down to disruptors. Yes, immortals are good units but that doesn't change the ground imbalance. So less disruptor zoning and gotcha games, better base gateway. Only that you can't just buff gateway units because of warp gate and massing. So nerf warping mechanics themselves down like making it so a single warp source can only warp in so many units at a time. I dunno, like 4? This way, the warp prism or proxy pylon can't put in a dozen units at once. Then in exchange, buff the units themselves. On the capital ship side, carriers are a problem because they scale too greatly when there's too many, requiring disproportionate amounts of micro on a mass scale, not unlike how banelings require much more micro to defend than to use... just that you have to get there and they don't go away after being used. Making it more expensive doesn't change the issue, only how hard it is to get there. So perhaps the answer is to shorten the range a bit. That makes the carriers overwhelming once they get there but leaves the ability to safely poke away at them with good kiting if the toss masses them. Instead, give some of that power to something like tempests to make it so the ideal air army is a mix and to add something into the airtoss army that makes it worse to A move but better than before if you micro. For each aspect of the game generally, more micro is better for the best players while less micro is better for the rest of us noobs and we can balance based on that.

@growtocycle6992

Жыл бұрын

@@Taunt61 serral, dark, rogue and reynor. All of which won tournaments more then any major tournaments (except maybe Maru) .... It's not a coincidence

@growtocycle6992

Жыл бұрын

Scarlett and solar also exist.... It's not just protists and terran,

Starcraft 2 balance always went back and forth depending on patches. The balance team did a pretty awful job at times and HOTS had a game warping patch what felt like every month. Truth is if your not top of masters or gm it literally doesnt matter its because you suck not balance.

I gave up on watching most pro SC2 because Protoss doesn't win tournaments, I bet against them and was always right. There was a long period of finals being ZvZ and just seeing no answer to it. Honestly the days of 2 hour Swarmhost games made me firmly anti-Z as a spectator.

@fatbasterd5195

Жыл бұрын

Yes Serral, Reynor, Rogue, Dark in every final. The same patch zergs with no skill and or work ethic. Kappa! I think the issue was not with the races my dude...

@stephencraig3176

Жыл бұрын

​@@fatbasterd5195 patch zergs?? those guys have been the best in the world for many years through lots of patches (even the incredibly overpowered bullshit voidray meta!) hell both serral and reynor have also offraced as protoss and won or placed very very highly in a few tournaments.

@benismann

17 күн бұрын

@@stephencraig3176 wasnt reynor GM with random or smth?

In any game where one race can achieve similar results with half of the APM, it will never be balanced. This game can never be balanced, and because of the wild imbalance of effort required for similar results, even the smallest tweaks can result in massive lopsided games. It's simple to understand with this basic fact: When a terran or protoss get a little behind, the game can still be won with a single battle going well, even if on accident. When a zerg gets a little behind, it results in a long drawn out desperate game that results in being slaughtered anyway.

@ilya2226

2 ай бұрын

Exactly. If we are talking about players up to 2nd Master (the highest Ive been) Zerg is unfortunately a puching bag race in ZVP and ZVT if you want to play a macro game. Not always used to be such in ZVP, but since the introduction of battery supercharge ability made only all-in cheeses able to defeat Protoss by direct assault. Same thing in ZVT: only cheeses can break even small amount of siege tanks in defence. Even if you gain advantage in the early/mid game be defending from some all-in offensive you most likely can't go on the offensive immediately to finish enemy off, or amplify your advantage by increasing eco-gap and launching an offensive 3-5 minutes later. You are forced to literally creep towards your opponent for 10-15 more minutes and then defeat him by overwhelming by stuff on creep and massive economy advantage in a game that was decided in an early stage. But when the opposite happens: your economy get crippled or even just moderately damaged by an early attack or harrassment you must play like crazy to balance on a thin line between getteing smashed by the next attack and falling behind economically and getting smashed by the attack after the next attack. Anyway most likely you lose in 5 minutes max. Not to mention absence of good harassing units and good static defence, while toss can summon 20 zealot army on your base as "harassment" has oracles, prisms with archons, dts, phoenixes and can surround income-bases with a million cannons + batteries and terran has all the range of harrasment units and can build multiple repairable planet fortresses that make his defence so strong that even after major defeat zerg cant finish the game. Anyway thats why I left this trash bin 3 years ago

@chinogambino9375

Ай бұрын

Zerg has the best comeback potential, P has the worse. You have laid out the exact opposite of reality. Once P or T lose the iniative against Z the game is practically over, Z late game is insurmountable unless they manage to throw away a 10000 mineral and 5000 gas lead away.

any answer other than widow mines is the wrong answer

I'd love blizzard to buff protoss through the roof if they kill disruptors and carriers as recompensation. Straight up.

@krzysztofczva5904

Жыл бұрын

It's not even that they are strong, they are retarded in the way they are designed and it affects playing and viewing experience.

@raydafuq3570

Жыл бұрын

Protoss are OP enough. The whole game balance revolves around Protoss being able to a move with Skytoss till GM.

Its really fun some say zerg is op and some other say protoss is op or some say terran is op I have an advice when you think something is op just play with that race or champion or what ever that is if you see you will win most of the time like after 20 games you win 19 games yes that thing is too op There are 3 races in this game and you need to play 3 styles for each one if pro players think zerg is op just play zerg its that simple

@cairnarunir

Жыл бұрын

I haven't done starcraft in a bit so this may no longer be correct. However, when I was playing, protoss psi storm was broken beyond words and irritated me to no end. Yet any of the protoss players I mentioned it to said that it's to be the equivalent for the Terran siege tank. No. That's the colossus. Psi storm hits any enemy type (except structure I think? ), has a decently large aoe, instantly casted, and deals so much damage you can't micro out of it before half or all affected units are killed already if there's even just 2 or 3 Templars casting

@amir.r1639

Жыл бұрын

@@cairnarunir yes the strom can change fights but the problem is they only work on slow movement units like thors and in other hand templers have very low hp they got killed with one shot from siged tanks and its hard to place storm in the best spot when you are fighting and you want to fight in like 3 spots which terrans always do this, At last templers have very low hp they have low range on storms and in other hands strom only works on low hp units for example you cant use storms in pvp or on some units from zerg like roaches or from terran like muraders or tanks Every single thing in this game has its own strong point and its own weak point At least if its not fully balanced it has the balance that most of the games dosent have in years of upgrading so far.

@cairnarunir

Жыл бұрын

@@amir.r1639 "slow moving units" right, that's why they are able to instantly delete my vikings, banshees, and sieges. It's instant cast and immediately starts dealing extremely high damage. The only things that can maybe get out range is the Thor and the battlecruiser, both of which will be very, *very* hurt from it and essentially combat ineffective. Regarding the durability of the Templar, that's true that they aren't very tanks but considering how anytime i fought them they were either en masse or able to duck behind immortals then.. *shrug*? And as to storm placement, there were some that tried to get perfect placement, but a lot of people just throwing walls of storm down as soon as they could fill even half the circle with targets, making it very difficult to counter attack Edit - as I said, things may have changed, but when I was playing, storm was capable of making entire armies evaporate in a matter of seconds with basically 0 reaction time Edit 2 - only works on low hp? I've seen storm usage deal enough damage to kill a bc in 2 damage ticks if not moved? It requires a decent number of Templars but it was something I had to deal with when I was laddering

@cairnarunir

Жыл бұрын

@@amir.r1639 continuation of previous comment - I think the main thing that bugs me is how it's designed. Siege tanks do decent aoe at ground targets only, and the raven can lower the armour of all units in an area (including friendlies, and it does no direct damage) Zerg banelings and lurkers do high and decent ground aoe damage respectively, with the viper having a poison dot aoe bomb for air Protoss get the colossus to create decent damage with dot aoe attacks against ground, but then also get this undodgeable ability that just instantly deletes anything it touches. Edit - error fixing

@amir.r1639

Жыл бұрын

@@cairnarunir you know on the paper this is right And for the zerg its broken if you give them time and let them expand you know , in the game we need to find weak and strong points of a race or unit so we can deal with them better For example bailings you cant beat them if you a move or even macro in the game you cant defend your base either the only way is if your terran just attack the zerg in different spots its really works and its really hard and if your protoss just make archon or immortal (sorry for my bad english) And for the storm spell one time I had very small army some templer and some stalker my enemy had BC thord and marins in a full army He made a mistake which a moved in a chock point and I just spamed the storms finally all of his units died in just 10 seconds maybe So the storm isnt op he made a mistake that he didnt splite his units in groups so at least he wont lose his army for just some stupid storms At last I want to say one thing This is RTS game and most of the time they do something that your not ready for it and you lose the game this is RTS and its normal to have these things I play in 3 races and im not a pro but Im normal player at least I know everything about the units and the gameplay I didnt lose to the storms everytime I lost some times but not all of the time ,I didnt lose to just mass bailings but It was really a hard game to win and in total I lost in everygame with a different things not just beacuse of one unit , I was lol player for 7 years and trust me I know what op and unbalance is you pick one champion and beat every single one ,win every single game till they nerf the champion

The game, i admit i gave up during the reaper imbalance single handedly wipe out zerg players(was zerg) days, due to the feel of the game. It had issues of feel in that things just felt imbalanced even if you knew the counter to something. Its a hard to approach game for single player. Giantgrantgames summed up my feeling of sc2, its balanced only towards elite players, and to many rts’s are trying to so that to. Which ultimately alienates everyone else. So the future rts’s are doomed to failure.

@ahuzel

Жыл бұрын

i was diamond when reapers became a thing, no one is byun so it was counterable. more like u just gave up

Metal league players will whine about balance while floating 2k resources at 5 minutes

Only change that does not make sense to me is the carrier change as I think it is easy enough to target carriers due to their size. And I am a terrible player so if I can do it than anyone should be able to.

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

It's hard to do when you have more than 20 corruptors and you start overkilling. It's also a problem when you need to micro other units simultaneously

@cyre77

Жыл бұрын

it becomes a problem when you have to dodge the protoss army's other spellcasters, or when the carriers are split In a vaccum, yes, anyone can right click a carrier, but with everything else going on (the need to keep building stuff, be careful about the rest of the ennemy's army, take care of different armies if the ennemy split his own, etc...), it becomes much harder to do i'm also a terrible player, and i think this change will help me also, as esports storyteller mentionned, overkill is also a problem, as all your units fire on a single carrier instead of splitting their fire like they'd do with an A-move

@januszkurahenowski2860

Жыл бұрын

Just because it's not that hard doesn't justify why your units shouldn't make the correct thing on their own, you're always forced to do that for literally no reason because you almost never want to shoot the interceptors. Why not help worse players and just make it harder for no goddamn reason? I'm master 1 and here people know they should target fire but it's not as easy with very large armies and I don't see the reason why it should be more difficult than it has to be. The game shouldn't be needlessly hard, it discourages new players who struggle with mass carrier even if they do the thing which is supposed to counter them like vikings or corruptors

@Talyrion

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, while as a protoss main, this patch has me quite worried, the carrier change is the one I'm the most okay with. It only makes sense that attack priority would go toward the carrier, and it definitely seems fair that way.

my take on balance, look how long it took for broodwar to get "balanced" and its still alive today and people still think its unbalanced :)

This guy plays Terran… I can feel it

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

I'm gm zerg

@branhoff

Жыл бұрын

@@EsportsStoryteller then you're a true gentleman to the Terran... I would have complained a lot more about them...

The only time a Terran won a World Championship is when they had tankyvak, but yeah it is very well balanced :) 9 Zerg wins, 4 protoss wins, 1 Terran win. Perfect balance.

@wcjerky

Жыл бұрын

MMA won GSL Code S finals in 2011, with Mvp as the runner-up.

@attractivegd9531

Жыл бұрын

@@wcjerky GSL is not a world event.

@nate5040

Жыл бұрын

If you think that's bad you should see chess, the current world champion has held it since 2013, the longest streak for world champion in chess is 27 years. Y'all lucky Serral isn't just straight up winning every world championship when you compare it to other sports. The only reason there's even a conversation about it is the asymmetric nature of SC2 makes it possible to claim IMBA and we can always make changes to the game to make it harder for Serral to do so.

@Bullybob77

Жыл бұрын

ratios are not exactly proof everything is balanced. maybe the 9 zerg players just played better than their opponents? its possible. it would be better to analyze all the games to see if its unbalanced because its possible in a balanced game for ratios to be unequal.

@attractivegd9531

Жыл бұрын

@@Bullybob77 Maru was the youngest pro Terran, you'd think with such a skill after so many years he would have won a WCS.

This is why I only play arcade

The carrier change was publicly said to not effect the high level much, but it actually really does with a couple specific protoss builds. It was proposed as a nerf, but it's a buff for protoss.

@grimmingpitb461

Жыл бұрын

no. even at the highest level units will often damage the interceptors(which are tanky for cost) this is a nerf even at the highest level

@SC2_Alexandros

Жыл бұрын

@@grimmingpitb461 nice parroting. Problem: against carrier rush you want to use queen/spore or marine/widow mine to deplete the interceptors as you prepare for a timing attack... because the carriers cannot be killed by these units due to walls and air deadspace. Carriers can now bring themselves purposefully into range to tank damage for the interceptors not only extending how long the interceptors are dps'ing but also keeping the interceptor numbers high. The good thing about interceptors (for zerg and terran) is that they have low range and for every one that you kill, the dps you're taking reduces. Carrier was made into a "skill unit" by allowing increased performance based on increased micro. The idea that it's a low league boost to zerg and terran is quite ironic, because if the idea is that they're just A moving towards carriers and their corruptor/viking are hitting interceptors, then with this change they're all hitting different carriers anyway and the dps of the carriers on A move will win. Corruptors and vikings must target the same carrier and go for one shots, that's why you don't engage carriers until you have enough corruptors/vikings for a one shot (preferably a few extra because you're going to start losing corruptors/vikings quickly). In effect, all this change did was force terran and zerg to constantly retreat while stutter stepping if the right call is to kill interceptors instead of carriers. Which allows the protoss a slightly increased number of situations where they have the last skillcheck instead of the zerg or terran having it. And considering it was a protoss player who brought forth this change after talking about how much they want carriers to be "skill units," I find it disappointing that the general population doesn't understand the proposed reasoning for the change was just to sell the idea and didn't have a hidden reason.

@grimmingpitb461

Жыл бұрын

@@SC2_Alexandros are you high.... just do the math ever interceptor has 80 hp *8 is 640 a carrier has 450 health. the reason you kill the interceptors is because it's dangerous to jump on to the protoss army.

We need Scourges. Period. We need Guardians period. FUCK ME this carrier and battle cruiser madness needs to end. and if someone says NUERAL I Swear to god. DO I look like Serral?

Anyone here saying the game is balanced is a zerg main or doesn't know what the hell they are talking about. At the highest pro level Zerg literally gets 5 bases for free with little to no contest unless its an all in. Mid to late game they can LITERALLY throw away 50% more units and still win because they'll get 50% more economy. Imagine being able to get and defend 50% more bases/eco than the next best race on a constant basis. They are absolutely broken and have the 3 best units in the game. Queens are the most cost effective along with lings. Banes are mobile/guidable nukes...that come from lings which you make anyways, and then the more queens you have the more eco and army you can make and when you lose it just remake your entire army in less than 2 seconds. Its a travesty that this is how the community has kept the game because 'muh zerg' but then nerf Byun twice because he was just too good as a player. I'm not even going to bring up Toss because they are obviously way behind in the pro level as far as balance viability. They are also broken in the wrong direction. Also for the naysayers who think it isn't possible to balance the game, you're wrong. Its possible to get CLOSE but the past goal for balance has obviously to balance for the zerg players to win/have the advantage which is why they made 'muh zerg swarm' like they did. It should be a lot closer than what it is now. But you do that, and the best terran players who actually had to develop insane levels of skill will start walking over everyone not named Serral/Reynor and the cries will come.

StarCraft 2 balance is broken since the first version of the game. Protoss race is almost imbalanced from all aspects, zergs are also full of crazy units, all map control and with broken limits due to swarmhosts and broodlords. And poor Terrans tried to survive without any chance due to absense of balanced units, low health, huge prices and full absence of flexibility. It is not possible to play Terrans using universal tactics, all Terrans army is vilnerably, costs more and have only two more or less usable units: Thors and battlecruisers, but first are weak against zerglings and seconds weak against all armored units that is nonsense but sadly is true. StarCraft 1 was more or less ballansed.

@EsportsStoryteller

Жыл бұрын

I think if you play mech it could be much easier

(I will never read a reply no matter what) The main thing that sucks about Starcraft 2 is that you don't really know who the best is. This is also what has killed the game. In Starcraft 1, some of the best professionals of all time had LOW APM. These players were so strategic and precise that they didn't need 350apm to compete. Their knowledge, discipline, and passion could be felt through their gameplay. This doesn't exist in SC2. Every pro has 250-400 APM or they simply have to retire. The game has a pace so fast that it's not really an RTS anymore. It's like one of those speed-cube solving contests that NOBODY cares about because it's the same thing over and over. I can't remember a single professional game of Starcraft 2 since LOTV came out. They are always just the same recipe. However, I can remember every single Brood War game I've watched. Another thing to realize is simply that SC2 is not a 'best man wins' type game anymore. In Starcraft 1, there were hundreds of thousands of nonkoreans playing daily. It was so uncommon for a nonkorean to beat a professional Korean in a series that it would give them a reputation for their entire career for even just taking a game in a series. In Starcraft 2, a random South American who can barely pour cereal into a bowl can win a series vs a top Korean. 5 bases at 6 minutes in many of these games takes the skill edge out of the game and has turned SC2 into basically a game of Super Smash Bros except with an APM Requirement. The apm requirement in Starcraft 2 is so pathetic and steep that players don't even have time to do strategic movements like burrowed banes, stasis traps, etc. It's so uncommon to see them that it's notable. Starcraft 2 is arcade trash.

Whait util they know League Of legends Balancement

Zerg are broken, there I said it, they get everything, creep is broken. If you don't attack a Zerg every 5 seconds as Terran they literall see 85 percent of the map within 11 minutes.

@d0k0night

Жыл бұрын

They said "just balance around maps" then proceed to design every map to be as zerg-favored as possible, with free Overlord perch spots so they can see you take your natural, remove as many ledges and drop positions so terrans can't siege positions and gas geysers strategically, and the list goes on and on.

@raydafuq3570

Жыл бұрын

wuaaaah wuaaah wuaaah. Scan is way more OP than Creep could ever be. On demand vision, on demand scouting, on demand detector. And you can have infinite amounts of it. Learn to play.

I've stopped thinking of SC2 as a multiplayer game that's supposed to be perfectly fair, but as one of those frustratingly difficult single player games that you have to keep trying.

I love terran whine.

Sc1 Was not balanced at all, players got good and understood what they needed to do to win. Its what makes RTS FUN.

As long as protoss is weak I'm happy

Balancing things that are strictly different is impossible, because there is no neutral standard. What would it even mean for SC2 to be perfectly balanced? The only way to balance it, really, is to get players to play all the matchups - it's the only way to create symmetry.