If you have questions about how these numbers came to be, check out my sources and calculations: 1drv.ms/x/s!AnEbV6tNc655iOxRCEGuJwAYd6SCEw?e=rQilM0 If you are looking for an e-bike, check out the Cowboy (affiliate link): www.tkqlhce.com/click-100602223-15255602 Corrections: - The 4144 EUR rail ticket apparently includes free city-wide transit as well. I didn't know this, but that would make the calculation at 6:18 even cheaper. Clarifications: - The Berlin public transport figures only include BVG, not S-Bahn & Regio (both cost and revenue side). This is done simply because BVG figures are more easily broken out, while the rail figures are harder to separate from the German Rail figures who runs them. Note that this means that there are actually more people taking public transportation because of this than I said, but for the sake of a cost calculation, the BVG figures should be accurate. - Note that I'm comparing total cost of car ownership (including non-financialized externalities, such as pollution) vs. public transport/bikes costs, which don't fully include externalized costs. This is because such numbers have not been accurately been made for a comparison as far as I know. This means this is not a perfect comparison. That said, keep in mind that public transport companies, unlike private car owners, do have to directly pay for the vast majority of their own infrastructure except bus lanes (rail infrastructure, parking, repair, accidents, etc.), and cause much less pollution (a tram here in Berlin does 1/7th per passenger vs. cars for example) and meanwhile bikes take up about 1/10th as much space for both parking and riding as cars + their roads don't need to be re-paved nearly as often. So keep in mind that these costs are not included, but they would hardly tip the scales.

@toms8812

Жыл бұрын

There's another alternative to all of this - buy used car, then depreciation isn't anything close to your numbers. I'm driving 10 years old premium car and depreciation is around 1k/year. Maintenance costs are lower as well, because I don't have to go to the official dealer to change oil or fix something, I can go to any mechanic or even do it myself. If you buy used car you can save up the money to buy it straight away so you will also be saving on leasing expenses.

@hopolapopola

Жыл бұрын

@@toms8812 yeah but does that cut the costs as much as just, having better public transport and biking infrastructure? i highly doubt that

@1121494

Жыл бұрын

​@@kj4derEchte Hey, that is an interesting System of Maths of yours that puts 9.4 Billion in Kfz-Tax per Year as 10 times the amount of the 12 Billion of just the Costs of the BAB-System (not even complete numbers of those) per year. Stick Fuel Tax where the sun doesn't shine, as it comes mainly from heating, so that would be B/S of yours. So direct Car specific Tax does not even cover Bundesautbahnen in our measly conventional Mathematics, not to mention Car Specific Expenditures for other Federal Expenditures on Cars and public expenditures on your car on State level, District and local Levels. If you just make up claims, you should remember all public incomes and expenditures are completely public for everyone to check your statements against the Reality of the Bundeshaushaltsplan, not just to public servants using those Haushaltplan publications, not even just to every Citizen, but to everyone! So, giving you a fair chance of not argueing in completely bad faith or ignorance wish-believes but you having come up with an entirely new Maths: Please elaborate your entirely new system of the Science of Mathematics behind the opening numbers, go ahead!

@toms8812

Жыл бұрын

@@hopolapopola I'm all pro biking infrastructure, but you don't realize that even if majority of people would drop cars for public transport the need for car infrastructure wouldn't disappear, because we still need roads and parking spaces for so many things - deliveries, construction, natural resource extraction, transportation to farms, forests, wind farms etc. less people who own cars would mean that the cost of maintaining this infrastructure for person who doesn't own a vehicle would increase.

@HeadsetHistorian

Жыл бұрын

Why do these stats include 250 a year for car washing and 200 a year for 'navigation'? The stats seem really absurd tbh.

Great summary! I'm constantly amazed at how much regular drivers underestimate the cost of driving. They usually don't think past gas and maybe insurance. At the municipal level, the non-profit organization Strong Towns has done extensive calculations across dozens of cities to show that sprawling car-centric infrastructure is always a net-negative for cities, and it has many knock-on costs to other infrastructure (especially water and sewer costs) that are literally bankrupting cities. But because cars are expensive - horrendously expensive - people who pay for them think they've paid their way, and there's an entitlement from many drivers. Meanwhile, in the majority of cities, local roads are paid for by property tax or local sales taxes, which means that everyone in the city pays for local roads, regardless of whether they drive or not. If you want cyclists to "pay their way", then you should start calculating their refund cheques. On a personal note, my next video (coming out on Monday) talks about how our family has saved tens of thousands of dollars since we went car free. That has been so financially liberating for us, but it's only possible because the cities we live in were designed properly. Many people (and especially Americans) don't have that luxury, which is a major problem.

@etbadaboum

Жыл бұрын

Ahah so great to have a teasing of your next video through a related one

@sysosmaster

Жыл бұрын

And there you hit the nail on it’s head, to live car free, society needs to be made for it to do so. And that will take time. Even in the Netherlands (where I live), going car free is not a economic option. Yes we all pay more due to that but public transport needs to be much better before it’s an alternative. (And I use it mainly for the longer trips when possible & not adding over 50% to my travel time…. Which exclude the trip to my Girlfriend. And to many of my Family. Sadly I believe that unless the VVD stops being behind the controls in our country this will not change.

@battokizu

Жыл бұрын

>cities Yea, not living in those. Sorry if my net cost destroys society but... not my problem. Thanks for reading my feel good blog. Also stop watching youtube videos and other streaming heavy platforms since your contributing to the waste of fresh water. ;)

@moparman5047

Жыл бұрын

Glad I’m 17 with my 74’ ford ranchero, nothing but the road ahead, sucks that people nowadays are only focusing on the small things instead of bigger ones, like chinas and indias pollution and other corporations that pollute, cars are not the only problem.

@sysosmaster

Жыл бұрын

@@battokizu how is destroying society (of which you are a member) not your problem though?

I am from Delhi, India. The Delhi Metro has completely revolutionised the travelling habits of the people. Its high speed, clean and air conditioned transportation that charges you a fraction of what you would spend on fuel. It has evidently reduced the number of cars on the roads. Then came Uber and Ola, the ride share apps which has completely subsided the need for owning a car. My father is surprised how I have been earning since 5-6 years and refuse to buy a car. (I just take his if I need. 😂)

@KarrasBastomi

Жыл бұрын

Delhi metro were amazing!

@DrShauryaGarg

Жыл бұрын

Resonate 100%

@thelakeman2538

Жыл бұрын

Delhi metro is very good in comparison to other metro systems in the country, but imo that city still needs greater investment in public transport especially buses and complete integration between all modes of public transit, like I doubt any Indian city has a unified transport authority and a unified pass for all public transit (there was an attempt in Chennai a decade ago but that got buried and never implemented). I have not been to Delhi for a decade by this point but from the data car sales seem to be still rising. Plus in the case of Delhi specifically the number of vehicles entering the city from outside Delhi through highways in a day equals the number of new vehicles registered in the city in a year, so there needs to be an effort to integrate the NCR region and surrounding states into rail and bus transit if traffic and pollution issues are to be resolved.

@shaileshbhat6131

Жыл бұрын

In India, a car is more than just a transportation unit. It's a status symbol for most people. Bigger the car, higher the status.

@tzarcoal1018

Жыл бұрын

@@shaileshbhat6131 honestly i feel like that is a global thing, true for any country.

I think you made a massive oversight in this video. No sane person with a low income buys a new car every 4-6 years. Most people in that income class don't buy new cars ever. They buy used cars, which drastically reduces cost of ownership. Also, I'd argue that a VW Golf isn't exactly a bottom-shelf car, it's actually rather expensive. Something like a used Renault Clio or Renault Twingo would be a more likely candidate (New VW Golf starts at 30k€, new Renault Clio starts at 17k€, for reference). I'm not saying all your arguments are false, they are actually quite valid, I'm just saying the cost of car ownership might be quite overblown compared to the real world.

@vulgoalias4050

Жыл бұрын

Yes, this assumption bothered me a lot. I like my cars mature. If it is not old enough to watch porn, it's not old enough for me. I currently own two cars, that I paid $1400 for. I spent a total of CA $400 on maintenance

@diariodeumcasalviking5425

Жыл бұрын

Completely agree. This video is about stupid people who buy new cars every few years. Oversight is massive on comfort and convenience of cars (especially if you buy older reliable cars that had almost or all the depreciation done)

@b0kix953

Жыл бұрын

It does not make a big difference really. Used cars will be cheaper for you upfront but you will have higher maintenance costs and a shorter lifespan which means you will have to replace your car sooner so it will make only a small impact on the overall costs.

@alexnefi

Жыл бұрын

@@b0kix953 you do realize that new cars lose most of their value in the first 3-4 years? It does make a big difference.

@vulgoalias4050

Жыл бұрын

Depends on what kind of a used car are you getting. If you buy a couple years old car, that used to cost $15K and now costs $12K, the difference is not that big. If you get a car, that used to cost $15K and you get it for $500, its uncomparable.

My extended family of 4 living in the suburbs of Florida, USA has 5 vehicles: two SUV's- one of them a junker for carrying groceries/furniture/construction the other SUV for moving family/friends and roadtrips, one expensive BMW Sedan purely for one person to drive to work (merely as a status symbol haha), and another sedan and hatchback for two young adults in college. Even though they are constantly repairing them, and literally have no room in the driveway to park them (so much that one has to be reparked on the street when mailman is not there), there is 0 chance they would get rid of them. Their convenience and other perks just outweigh any other benefit in the United States, it is a starkly different world than here in Europe.

@WisdomRanger

4 ай бұрын

That is amazingly expensive

@Slenderman63323

3 ай бұрын

Only because US cities are designed like crap and force you to shell out for a car

I agree with everything, except one financial detail, people always take the new car cost in calculation, but most private people don't buy a brand new car, but a car that is a few years old. So I think it would be more fair to take a 4 year old Golf and let somebody use that for 10 years, and then they buy another 4 year old Golf etc... Richer people of course can buy new cars, but I think they are not the majority.

@jlspma

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention the actual financial cost someone is willing to pay for your car (the value of the car in the market) is not directly correlated with how useful it is. You trust the car you bought 15 years ago, and are happy to keep using it, but wouldn't pay even 500€ to get the equivalent old car from someone you don't know. Someone that drives a good car that is easy and cheap to maintain and driving it til it dies, is a lot cheaper than systematically buying cars every 10/12 years whether new or second hand. Remember even the cheap Fiat or Hyundai sedans, well maintained, are being used as Taxis in Istanbul with odomoters at 800,000km+. Cars last a long time, or a lot of km, they just need to be well maintained.

@lejoshmont2093

Жыл бұрын

My latest car was 16 years old and didn't cost much it won't take to long for insurance to overcome how much I paid.

@lejoshmont2093

Жыл бұрын

@@jlspma yes you have to maintain your car and maintain it well and a lot will last you a long time / many miles.

@anon_y_mousse

Жыл бұрын

I've never bought a new car. Never will.

@kiranp5611

Жыл бұрын

I think this happens only in Europe where there is regulated 2nd market exists. In India & many other countries people mostly prefer to buy a new car instead of a used car even when it's out of their reach.

The Bahncard 100 actually includes local transportation! It is valid on the entire BVG and S-Bahn network too, you don't need to add the numbers. That is how it makes sense for a lot of people to own. If you are regularly in two cities, it quickly makes sense. I also know people who live a digital nomad lifestyle using it, where they will spend a lot of nights on the train.

@fulconandroadcone9488

Жыл бұрын

Wait 4000 euro for basically full country wide public transport? That is less then the cost of gas for a modest commute here. Event without high gas prices. Wow. I knew cars are no good, but that it is this bad of a disconnect is amazing.

@mohamedaminekoubaa5231

Жыл бұрын

@@fulconandroadcone9488 including ice s

@swgar

Жыл бұрын

@@fulconandroadcone9488 4000 per person. And even 4000 € is about 2500 liters of Super at current price. It's about 2 times more than average german drive.

@schadowization

Жыл бұрын

@@swgar maintenance costs, tires, taxes, insurance still exist tho.... In my case: insurance 1000, taxes 380, 450 per service, 650 for a set of tires (last about 3 years) , and then fuel. That's just the running costs. The initial cost of buying the cars is another animal.

@eternalvoid2678

Жыл бұрын

@@swgar you didn't watch the video, did you? :P The whole point is that just the gas isn't even close to the total cost of owning car.

I read an article saying something like this before I bought my first car, so I decided to systematically write down every single expense I have with it into an Excel spreadsheet. So including all insurance, servicing, gasoline, tires, road taxes, depreciation, etc. And I came up with just under 20.000€ over 7 years and 90.000 km. So as I have suspected, owning a car is not terribly expensive at all if you buy a reasonable car.

@mxbx307

Жыл бұрын

In my experience cars are only expensive if you buy swanky gas guzzlers on finance. If you buy a BMW M3 on a finance deal, have to pay the insurance, the high fuel costs because it guzzles petrol at current prices, BMW's mafia service costs which you have to pay as part of the terms of the finance - of course it gets expensive. It can also get expensive if you keep buying ancient disposable shitboxes, like someone I knew who did. He was buying a "new" car every year or two because they broke down or fell apart, with expensive or impractical repairs even if you could get parts. Granted that was 20 years ago and he was buying cars from the mid-late 1980s. Today's ancient shitboxes are much better than the older ones. Just buy a respectable, recent used car for a sensible price and it's probably going to be absolutely fine.

@thebyzocker

Жыл бұрын

@@mxbx307 if you however buy a daweoo matiz (funny car) that's about 10-15 years old now for about 5 grand, you pay 16€ in taxes a year and a full tank barely costs 60 euros in today's fuel prices and you get about 500km of range with it

@luizprestes6795

Жыл бұрын

you just forgot the part of being heavy subsidized by everybody taxes.

@Georgije2

Жыл бұрын

@@luizprestes6795 What do you mean?

@davixpixie243

Жыл бұрын

​@@Georgije2 cars body enormous amount for things like 4 to 5 plots of land for a single car in its lifetime, road maintenance, pollution subsidiaries and surveys and many many expenses which the gov has to undertake

Great video. Great arguments. Very informative yet very easy to get a grip on such a massive topic. Thanks a lot!

One thing I think people misjudged: expensive cars doesn't get more subsidy from the public than cheaper cars, heavier cars/trucks/busses do. If we only ran light cars and motorcycles our roads would last several years more than our practical use with heavy vehicles to transport our stuffs and people, the impact on road materials increases a lot with the high weight vehicles.

@dougpatterson7494

Жыл бұрын

I think he equated “more expensive” to “bigger/heavier”. While not the full story it is a simplified and generalized way to look at it. A higher end trim of the same vehicle model is almost always heavier.

Жыл бұрын

Trucks are ~3-10x heavier than heavy cars. But it's true most SUVs are pointless and as usefull as any (lifted) wagon like A4/6 allroad, Outback...

@paulzapodeanu9407

Жыл бұрын

To my knowledge, most damage to roads is done by weather mostly freeze/thaw cycles, so I’m not very sure that roads for bikes would be cheaper from that perspective. Though they could be much smaller and that should generate a significant cost reduction.

@ConanOG

Жыл бұрын

@@paulzapodeanu9407 it doesn't freeze everywhere, where I live the temperature never goes that low

@kockgunner

Жыл бұрын

It’s so dumb how big cars have gotten. Everyone wants a bigger car to feel “more safe” on the road. It wastes space on parking, roads, damages roads, creates blind spots, causes more damage when crashed, uses more fuel, are more expensive. There are no benefits.

A couple of issues in this video: 1. All calculations include 1-person households. A single car can be used by all people in a family, and that increases the alternative cost of public transport/bikes - the latter needs to be multiplied by the number of family members. Keep in mind that most discounts (e.g. for school kids) are subsidized by the government. 2. Car infrastructure in the cities - we need the infrastructure anyway for delivery and logistics. All businesses need to deal with transportation, and removing all public parking spaces (or charging the real-market value) would significantly increase the cost of all goods. 3. Lifetime cost of owning a car assumes that a household buys a brand new car. Value degradation/insurance/maintenance cost is not linear, the majority of the costs can be avoided when buying a used car (cheaper insurance, cheaper parts, smaller value degradation). 4. Alternatives presented are not viable at scale. For example, car sharing is amazing, except when everyone needs a shared car (bank holidays, vacation season). Rental car shortages is a real thing. 5. Alternatives presented are not viable for all people. For example, certain people with disabilities have significant problems with using bike / public transportation. Excluding them from owning a car could further result in isolation. 6. 60-year totals in the spreadsheet include costs of 50-year totals 😅 That being said, I still agree with the conclusion that majority of the people living in the cities does not need to own their car. But it won't be so easy to change - first we need to solve the problem of the end-point logistics being mostly based on cars.

Awesome stuff. This was well documented and well researched, I really enjoyed it and found it informative

I don't know how it's possible but my yearly cost of owning a 2017 Skoda Octavia (bought second hand for 12k euros) is nowhere near the estimated 7600 euros mentioned in the video. I summed up all my costs and I am well below 3000 euros per year (including depreciation).

@MMXANCE

Жыл бұрын

well from watching half of it now it seems like he's trying to prove a point that cars are bad or something. It's biased but I get the point he's trying to make. he does sound like a communist slash marxist, which is no surprise seeing that he lives in Berlin

@jorgen8630

Жыл бұрын

I bought a Opel Astra (second hand, 1 year old, for 15k) and It's even lower for me, i barely spend 2k a year for everything. I don't get how people pay 600 euro for maintenance. I pay around 200 euro every year for maintenance. Also taxes and insurance are very low since it's a small eco-friendly car compared to the overpriced 2L engine Golf they showed in the video.

@mxbx307

Жыл бұрын

Yep. I have a 6 year old (2016 model) Skoda Fabia in the UK and it's costing me about £1600 (about €1900) a year to keep on the road. It's not been getting as much use since COVID, but it cost me £7300 back in late 2019. The car is setting me back about 3-4% of my annual income at most in terms of cash costs. The UK estimates per-mile costs at 23p, so that's about £1150 in annual wear and tear although the car is exceptionally reliable and hasn't had any major issues. That £1150 is also hypothetical and not coming out of my pocket. In any case the convenience and freedom is definitely worth it, plus in my area you can expect to pay the same for a season ticket on crappy public transport that takes you nowhere and at times of their whim. You are also pre-paying for journeys you will never make and routes you will never use. Car wins. My personal opinion is that people are grossly exaggerating vehicular running costs and it saves me having to buy expensive train tickets, or pay delivery charges or suchlike.

@lovrovalentic3056

3 ай бұрын

​@@mxbx307And you can also learn to work on cars 😅.

Techaltar is going full orange pill and I’m here for it!

@TheCatLoverLord

Жыл бұрын

What does that mean

@siddharthsharma8940

Жыл бұрын

Orange pil?

@ergergzbhzefer

Жыл бұрын

@@TheCatLoverLord it’s a reference to the KZread channel NotJustBikes :)

@frida507

Жыл бұрын

Hard to keep track of all pill colors...

@BCrossing

Жыл бұрын

@@ergergzbhzefer if you're going to make quirky references to other channels at least make them actually recognisable at a glance

As a South African I can’t imagine how a functional public transport system would even look like for me to consider not owning a car.

@tomd-k830

Жыл бұрын

Yep, even i as a german who lives in the suburban area of a big city can´t imagine that. I gave public transport a lot of tries and always was running late, took forever to get to my destination and so on. Nevertheless, i get the point, of Techaltar, that if we would´ve spend money more on public transport instead of car infrastructure, maybe public transport wouldn´t be as shitty. I really don´t know how to fix this but i think that on street parking should be terminated and that there should be more underground car parking garages below already existing infrastructure. Then of course, you pay for parking, cars are kept out of parts of the town. But personally, i like my car, i am able to afford it and will continue to drive on my own.

@ditsepusegerane7942

Жыл бұрын

As a fellow South African, please hear me out. Get a motorcycle.

@ConSdr

Жыл бұрын

True bru, its not like we have other dependable forms of transport either like rail in other countries and the cities here are built for cars first, so cycling and walking are a definite hassle and unreliable. It would be great to see south africa gradually shift to other forms of transport and develop the infrastructure needed like railway lines and bicycle lanes and keep amenities in walking distance, it would help the country in an unimaginable way imo. Build the city for the people, not the cars kinda mentality.

@petterericson6230

Жыл бұрын

You could ask someone from the two thirds of the population who don't own a car.

@YouTubeGlobalAdminstrator

Жыл бұрын

@@petterericson6230 we're not talking low income individuals, unless you want to drive in a SA taxi or train...

Small correction for 6:24: You most likely would not even need the 978€ ticket for Berlin as the BahnCard 100 that lets you travel by train in Germany actually includes CityTickets for local public transportation in 130 cities including Berlin (Zones A+B)

@em-jd4do

Жыл бұрын

WOW that is incredible

@pingvingaming

7 ай бұрын

and the cost of the rails and the cost of the roads and parking wasnt counted in that price was it

@Egalitarian917

5 ай бұрын

@@pingvingaming The subsidies for cars vastly outweigh the subsidies for public transportation. People that take public transportation subsidize those that drive, not the other way around.

@pingvingaming

5 ай бұрын

@@Egalitarian917 but the people that drives are the onces keeping socity working public transport is a pipe dream it wont work before the day people say cant wait to get rid of the car what an upgrade public transport is and that will never happen becuse public transport is broken by design

@Egalitarian917

4 ай бұрын

@@pingvingaming Are you 14? In developed countries like Germany and Singapore, public transportation clearly does work. The problem is that the US doesn't want it to work. It doesn't have to be that way. It used to have the best network in the world. It can again.

Your videos are great man keep them coming 💪🏼

I've owned the same car for 15 years, so not overly concerned about depreciation. Insurance, tax and maintenance on the other hand are massive expenses

The "All of Germany" annual train pass costs about the same as an annual season ticket from London to Chelmsford in Essex (a 31 mile journey). You can't use this ticket for ANY other journeys and if you need to travel onwards in London to anywhere else you'll need another £500-£1200 for a tube pass. You don't even get a guaranteed seat for that money either. Cars are a pain but UK trains are horrendously expensive.

@Moses_VII

Жыл бұрын

Bad government policy. Simple. Incompetent governance or corruption is not inherent to any form of transport.

@g4egk

Жыл бұрын

The rail network in the UK is an outlier and broken thanks to privatisation. "Rich man's railway"

@foryou6888

Жыл бұрын

@@g4egk The publicly owned and run TFL (transport for London) is also expensive (an adult going between zones 1-9 is capped at £20 a day on payg, more on a day travelcard). Its the same for LNER services, publicly owned and expensive to ride (a trip both ways between London and Edinburgh can easily cost over £100 booked weeks in advance).

@matthewwatt2295

Жыл бұрын

@@foryou6888 It's not completely true to say TFL is publicly run - they are required to contract out the running of underground trains, bus routes etc. to private companies like Abellio, Arriva and MTR. We also have a government who are convinced that public transport has to turn a profit and pay dividends to its shareholders 😒. I suspect that LNER being required to operate as a publicly owned business in the framework of the previous franchise model also increases its cost. (I have to use it a lot and wish it was cheaper too!)

@foryou6888

Жыл бұрын

@@matthewwatt2295 From what I gather the only part of tfl that was profitable pre-pandemic was the underground? Also I have no idea about LNER and how it is run, I just know its currently publicly owned (maybe not run I don't know), and charges quite a bit.

This channel produces amazing material 👏👏👏 Thanks for all your hard work.

"3000€ of depreciation every year" wow I didn't know that my car lost 300% of its value during the three years of me owning it, plus now there are a lot of solutions that avoid this "cost".

@lukasausen

Жыл бұрын

i think he was saying about the VW golf.

@claudionunziante9347

Жыл бұрын

@@lukasausen that's not the problem here, the thing is that you cannot consider both the depreciation and the maintenance as costs.

@merlin0681

Жыл бұрын

@@claudionunziante9347i don't get why he would count that in

@lukasausen

Жыл бұрын

@@claudionunziante9347 arent they costs? Wdym

@claudionunziante9347

Жыл бұрын

@@lukasausen the thing is that he tried to pass the depreciation of a car as an hidden cost of owning one, that's an incorrect statement because if someone bought a car then he was already aware of this cost so it's not hidden. His theory also didn't consider the possibility of leasing instead of buying. I own a car and I will use it to return home from university every weekend spending around 30/40€ in fuel and 3 hours driving, making the same trip with a train will cost me double both in price and time, in the 2 years that I will spend there attending my master degree that amounts around 2800€ and 280 hours more. I paid my car 3k 3 years ago and I used it to attend my bachelor so I already recovered some of its cost thanks to the fact that using the public transportation service is more costly than driving, using it for the next two years will allow me to "recover" the entire price without considering the fact that during this time I already avoided a lot of costs thanks to sharing my car with my friends and family (it's impossible to share the same train ticket 🤣)

Man, I love cars, I’m a car guy, but I absolutely agree with your points. Cities are for people, not for cars. Also car prices are ridiculous for average human or even a city (I mean road maintenance and parking spaces losses for city budget). If you don't absolutely need a car or just want car as a hobby don’t buy one.

@Jesse-2531

Жыл бұрын

? Wen I need a car dont buy one? Do you mean wen you are no care person, and dont live in the middle of nowhere. Dont buy a car.

@smoguli

Жыл бұрын

Or do like a lot of us are doing right now and get out of overpopulated cities. If you have the means and can work from home, do yourself a favor and get out while you can.

@fourthpanda

Жыл бұрын

@@smoguli I like living in cities with alot of people. As long as they are walkable... A city doesn't feel as crowded when you can get places without a car. I'm living in Tokyo so it's pretty much the definition.

@ConanOG

Жыл бұрын

Big cities are too problematic too. We need to create medium size cities, not huge mega cities. At some point is just ridiculous the amount of people we have in just a few parts of the world while most of the other part doesn't any people.

@dmhendricks

Жыл бұрын

This video is just climate change propaganda, nothing more. Where I live, there are zero trains and nobody wants to ride a bike 30 miles to work every day in the snow. You are delusional if you believe that they do.

These numbers feel incredibly inflated, a standard 2018 golf in my country costs an average of 13k euros, maintenance 3-400e, fuel driving an average 20k a year @ 6l/100km @1.8euros/liter is 2.1k, insurance - 100e. The most it can depreciate is sub 1k a year as it starts off as not an expensive car. The absolute maximum being around 3.5k and even that is really pushing it. How do you even come up with 7.5k is beyond me.

@watcherit1311

Жыл бұрын

That 2018 Golf is not new. You were subsidized by the first owner. Don't forget, one disadvantage of public transport (including sharing) is that "it is old and dirty". Buying an old & dirty personal transport from the start is not much of an advantage.

@toms8812

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. If his number would be close to the truth then there would be next to no cars in Baltics.

@marceldiezasch6192

Жыл бұрын

I second this. I even live in Germany, so this video is very applicable to me, but the costs don't add up. Insurance for a Golf isn't 1100€, it's 250€ if you just buy mandatory liability insurance. 480€ if you take the full insurance. Also 1300€ for "other" costs. Which other costs, maintenance was already accounted for with 600€, so this could be 85€ für TÜV, a bit for car washes etc., but how would you ever get to 1300€?

@singular9

Жыл бұрын

I spend a lot of money taking care of my car and even with higher gas prices and inflation I don't spend over 4000$ a year on my car and I drive 20,000 miles a year. I agree. These prices make no sense.

@rrrr2150

Жыл бұрын

i'm sure anybody who is not a car addict would take the 6000 sample survey data over some random youtube comment but thanks for your insight anyway!

Wait so you counted both car payment & depreciation in your calculations? That's a pretty big mistake that inflates your numbers A LOT. Especially since depreciation is not a fixed cost.

This is awesome! Very well thought and documented.

yeah i'm a car enthusiast. and yeah, i like this video. we exist XD seriously tho, make cars a pleasure vehicle again. they should be a hobby, not a burden. i don't want to need a car. i want to love my car. i don't want to use it everyday, i prefer public transport.

@yanoucar

Жыл бұрын

Damn right ! I'm an auto engineer myself and can't stand dailying a car in suburb area ! It is the biggest hobby killer ! (I'm biking to work which makes me happy to take my car on WE for longer distances)

@m.ahussain4005

Жыл бұрын

Can't really agree with you though since I enjoy driving to work and back whilst also going on drives with no destination in mind.

@deathtrvcker666pl2

Жыл бұрын

You are not alone, 90% agree except that there are many people who need a car as a work tool, but they also suffer from this system. It would simply be rather difficult for me to transport all the tools I need to work on the construction site.

@jonathanodude6660

Жыл бұрын

@@deathtrvcker666pl2 you need a car for the value of a car, not just for transportation. thats the difference. you actually suffer from everyone else using their cars as simply transportation because of the wear it inflicts on the road and the traffic you have to get through. if everyone used their car for utility only and not for transit then you would be better off.

@jonathanodude6660

Жыл бұрын

@@m.ahussain4005 what do you enjoy about driving to work? driving around can be something you enjoy, sure, but getting to work is just transit is it not? why not just take the cheapest option?

You messed up the Excel formulae in the 60 year total and the figure made it into the video. You've summed B98:B137 and C98:C137 but these include the 50 year subtotals (and miss out the first 21 years of usage) which massively distorts the figure. If you're going to use subtotals like this I'd recommend you use the subtotal formula. The correct 60 year figures (based on the numbers you've decided to use) are 223,298 for the bike and 1,041,288 for the car. This sets the tone for the rest of my comment because if you were viewing any of this with a critical eye you might have noticed that the 60 year figure is more than double the 50 year figure. Suffice to say I think the approach you've taken is biased and overly simplistic. I'd also take issue with the approach to some of the figures you've used from studies (in particular the Gössling one) - the 'blame' for arising social problems caused by cars is being placed on car users ('selfish, stupid, ignorant drivers') with no critical analysis of the social factors affecting why people might *have to* use cars, and this whole video comes off as a sales pitch to get people to stop using cars which oversimplifies the complexities of the issues surrounding car use. I don't have the time to separate out which factors that have been added to the 'cost of car ownership' are fair to apportion to drivers themselves (I can think of several other interest groups that could bear responsibility for cars being necessary in the first place); that was supposed to be your job: to view the study with a critical eye rather than using it as a tool to sell bikes. This line from the Gössling study is interesting: "For example, many businesses provide vehicle parking facilities to employees and customers that are unpriced or priced below their full production costs (including land, construction and operating expenses), while providing no comparable benefit to those who travel by other modes." (And you make many similar arguments in the video.) I wouldn't consider taking less time to commute to be an employee benefit just because I live closer to work, that's time I'm saving because of where I live which isn't really either my choice (entirely) or my employer's; if an employee *needed* a car to get to work, it is surely appropriate that the employer provides a parking space, otherwise presumably the cost of parking would fall on the employee - why do both you and the study believe workers should be further penalised for driving to work if there is no other practical mode of transport? There are different ways of approaching this issue and this video gives no critical analysis. I'm disappointed to see the figures presented in the way they have been in this video. For example, you've given no explanation of why it would be appropriate to compare the cost of a car *including social costs* with the cost of public transport *without social costs* (did you think it was fair to assume that there were no social costs to public transport?), and then comparing just BVG subsidies with the full social cost of a car - what useful information is this actually giving us? I think the problem you have in tackling an issue like this is that making a simplistic comparison like this is never going to work - it's not providing information that can accurately assess the unique factors that motivate each driver to own and drive cars and whether or not it's possible or reasonable to ask them to ditch the car. I agree we need to reduce car usage but this video takes the wrong approach imo. What are the factors holding people back from shifting away from cars? I don't think you've adequately covered them in this video.

@poopslinger5250

Жыл бұрын

such a well-thought out response. a shame it seems itll go to waste.

This was verry thorough and informative. Thank you

That really sounds incredible. It would mean that I am after say 30 years of not owning a car (and few transit costs and the bike I maintain myself) I would be easily a half-millionaire. Which I am not. Still car numbers are always mind-boggling.

@ab452

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, there are so many flaws in this video. That it's obvious that we cannot translate to the real world

@ab452

Жыл бұрын

Let me know if you get there

@huntergray3985

Жыл бұрын

It sounds incredible because it is not credible.

as a bike only person since 6 years, the social costs really drive me crazy. (tho I would say I am a pretty big car enthusiast) Especially in Berlin, bike paths are in super bad condition and it is so frustrating to drive a bike through the city. Funny that you picked Linienstraße for the A-Roll in the beginning - the only street I enjoy driving at! Great video, please bring more of these less tech related videos. Update: As an EV-owner you even get yearly money (something up to 300€) for your carbon credits... Who is paying me to drive a bike?

@trustnugget280

Жыл бұрын

Nobody's paying you for riding a bike because bikes are not subsidies. Screw you for being actually environmentally friendly

@sell2012

Жыл бұрын

start to pay for roads.. maybe they wont suck.. cant wait till they take out bike licenses

@Entertainment-

Жыл бұрын

As a bike rider you require more food/energy to propel the bike forward, which has a huge carbon footprint from production to transport.

@ssjtalla23

Жыл бұрын

@@Entertainment- are you actually serious? :D 60-70% percent of people actually need to eat less than they currently eat, and can still drive bicycle with no need for extra energy. You are oblivious at how much we eat for no reason at all :D and on top of that use cars to move around.

@1121494

Жыл бұрын

@@sell2012 The only Roads in germany even partially covered in expenses by Vehicle Specific Taxes are the Autobahnen, which are not open to non-motorised traffic. Even those need to be subsidised partially by all other taxes. *Every* other Road, Bundesstraßen, roads and streets of State, District and Local Levels are fully paid for by *every* tax payer. You are not paying for your own Expenses, the inconsiderate Parasite in this Calculation is not the Cyclist Adrian, it is you.

I have a 1993 MX5. It doesnt depreciate anymore, its appreciating since 2020. Service is done by myself, parts and maintanence is very cheap. Its cheaper to run than public transport and saves me a lot of commuting time. Only an electric bike would be cheaper. Never buy a car on bank loan, buy used, pay in full.

@uFlock

Жыл бұрын

Scotty Kilmer is that you?

@KarrasBastomi

Жыл бұрын

You are not average. And 1993 mx5 is pushing 30 years old, not many everyday driver would know how to take care the old lady. Btw, good on you keeping her alive.

@G91YS

Жыл бұрын

Well... when many cities (at least in Europe) don't allow older vehicle (in Brussels: 2012 or earlier I think), and will entirely ban petrol vehicles in 2030-35, it'll be tough...

@filipruml

Жыл бұрын

@@G91YS The ban is on selling ICE vehicles but if you mean access to the city I don't see it as that much of an issue since P+R spots seem to be wildly available. At least in the west. Of course if you like old cars and live in a city you'd have a problem but I don't see that working out well even now due to lack of space.

@MonguzTea

Жыл бұрын

@@G91YS Its not banned here yet but they are considering the ban of older diesel cars without particule filter.

Great video! This has motivated me to more closely pay attention and record how much I am actually spending. My goal is to keep using my current paid off car until I improve my circumstances to the point that I can get rid of it and go car-free

I like your new focus in mobility and sustainability. Good video and lot of work behind

1:40 I feel this is a bit manipulative, since apart from private cars, roads are also used by healthcare, fire deps, police, supply, public transit and maybe more. So I wouldn't say that society is paying for the drivers, since roads are useful also for people without a car

@Pragmatic_Optimist_MCR

Жыл бұрын

At the same time, roads are twice the size to accommodate parking *only* for cars. Imagine the cost of streets that have no parking at all, only two lanes instead of four where public transport and trams can still drive.

@_r4x4

Жыл бұрын

@@Pragmatic_Optimist_MCR I guess not every road is a 4 lane one, and not all of them has parking on it. In my city it's a majority of roads that are 2 lanes only without any parking on it's side. Strange, it seems like the world isn't only USA...

@Pragmatic_Optimist_MCR

Жыл бұрын

@@_r4x4 If there is almost no parking space and no public parking lots that are for free, so that you always have to pay a ticket, except on your own property, that's great! I am from Berlin and every street has at least one lane for parking, even at the outskirts. Which is horrendous. Where do you live? Sounds great, if there is this little public parking space and more room for pedestrians/cyclists

@_r4x4

Жыл бұрын

@@Pragmatic_Optimist_MCR just normal, not so big city in Poland (about 90k people). Parking is mostly dealt by your destination, so if you live in flat then there would be some parking spots nearby, work places or other destinations also tries to give some parking spaces. There isn't much of public parking spaces, I guess it's mostly because majority of people would say that using it when not needed would be unreasonable due to it's cost.k It's not that big city, so if you aren't going that far it won't be bad, dedicated biking infrastructure is almost non existent, but there are roads and pedestrian paths (or "dedicated" mixed use bike/pedestrian paths... Yeah you wouldn't even notice them if not sign putted there), but still enough for most people.

@sttonep242

Жыл бұрын

True. I work for my city and I fix/maintain its infrastructure. It would be impossible to do that without my work truck. And how would city even work without roads for truck that bring goods?

Brilliant stuff! Really enjoyed how you avoided the typical surface level argumentation and instead took us on a deep dive into the actual numbers of car dependency costs. Love it 👌

@dkaloger5720

Жыл бұрын

Very true , i havent seen these talking points anywhere else .

@annoyingguyoninternet1631

Жыл бұрын

Real Tapakapa wow!

@ToyotaCharlie

Жыл бұрын

Mochst sowas für Wean a? Warat ur supa!

@amirmirzaei3940

Жыл бұрын

I have a feeling you will make a video about this topic too in like a few months

@Nimadee

Жыл бұрын

Numbers would be even more interesting for Vienna, since they paint themselves as a green city. But atleast we have 365 euro public transport.

Using the cost of maintenance of roads and other infrastructure and tallying it as the cost of cars to the government makes no sense, any country literally needs roads for its logistics and therefore for the country as a whole to function

Very good insight, thanks!

Additional argument: not everything is about cost. Consider time. Time is money. Let's consider travels. With car i can go anywhere directly. With public transportation your trip time can take twice as much time. Public transport is often late in Poland. If you have to wait for 3 hours because it is just late is really terrible. Another thing: consider travelling with kids. It is much more time efficient since you can pick multiple relatives in the city in multiple places.

@SmartWarthog

Жыл бұрын

Sitting in traffic is a huge waste of time.

@Palin3

Жыл бұрын

He did mention that cars may be useful for some people. However, the delays of public transportation can be a consequence of lack of investment, which could be remedied if all the money that both government and citizens directly spend on cars went to public transportation instead. Of course you will never have door-to-door trips, but at least you can be sure there won't be traffic jams. Also, cars cause many more deaths than public transportation, both directly (in car accidents) and indirectly (pollution). Not everything is about money, indeed, and human lives should be at the top of the priority list.

Fantastic video with the cost breakdowns. It is absolutely insane how much we spend and justify on car infrastructure when there are obviously more efficient ways to spend our time and money on transit.

@MadhavVij

Жыл бұрын

Just throw in some TRAINS and call it a day. I am obviously half joking, but investment in public transit and well designed cities will go a long way. We really need to think about subsidizing car oriented infrastructure and it's effects on climate change.

@swgar

Жыл бұрын

About time spending: for me it is common situation in Berlin to choose between 20 minutes by car or over an hour by public transport. Each way.

@DaDARKPass

Жыл бұрын

Go F*ck yourself, Alan Fisher. Cars >>>>> Trains, and suburbs are better than your f*cking ass. Leave this planet now you b+tch.

@Amir-jn5mo

Жыл бұрын

I love it, all the transit community is here in the comments.

@EmyrDerfel

Жыл бұрын

@@swgar You're meant to pay attention to the road while driving. You can do other stuff while travelling on public transport, like watching KZread videos.

This video was excellent, thanks!

This is one of the best and most important videos regarding cars on youtube period!

My gas costs a year are about 1000€ a year in Germany, insurance is below 1000€. Didn't have to repair anything in last five years. Golf 5. Did I forget some calculations? TÜV and Tax isn't more than 500€ I would prefer to not use a car, like in Amsterdam. But getting to work and around is at the moment 3x faster than by rail for me.

@android-user

Жыл бұрын

TÜV HU/AU? Maybe washing your car a few times a year. Depreciation is a weird point. I bought my car for 2000€, the money is gone, I am the last driver. Why would depreciation matter? I don't want so sell it. So that wouldn't count for me right?🤔

@CookieEliminator

Жыл бұрын

@@android-user ah yes I forgot thanks, but still I'm overestimating my costs, I bet my fuel cost a year is still below 1000€ and insurance is just 800€ to be precise. Maybe it's just because I do not own a newer car? Even if I add a 1000€ a year for maintainance and stuff it's still much lower.

@tunnfisch7548

Жыл бұрын

It's obviously an estimate and will vary from person to person. Fun fact these calculations are based on numbers from the ADAC so I think they are fairly accurate.

@HeadsetHistorian

Жыл бұрын

The numbers in this video also include 250 euro a year for car wash and 200 a year for navigation lol. it's complete nonsense.

I think depreciation is highly overestimated in these calculations. If you use the new car more than 7 years or so, or count with second-hand car market figures you get a much lower number than €3100. My example is a 10 years old Suzuki Swift that depreciated £1700 in three years!

@FuelPoverty

Жыл бұрын

He has the typical attitudes of a young, physically fit city dweller with no children and high disposable income, with little idea what it is like to live in the countryside, particularly in the UK, with non-existent public transport.

@fourthpanda

Жыл бұрын

He also forgets to mention anything about me, who owns a 32 year old Volvo that's literally appreciating in value... Just doesn't seem accurate to talk about "the cost of owning a car" and not mention some of the people that own cars... lol

@martian9999

Жыл бұрын

you are using a uncommon exception to argue against the rule (i.e. that folks buy millions of new cars every year). It's like saying the price of vegetables is of no interest because you have a garden where you plant carrots.

@barry1035

Жыл бұрын

@@martian9999 Buying a brand-new car is far more uncommon than buying second hand. Most drivers buy cars that are a few years old at least. New car sales in Germany were 2.6 million last year. 2019 was 3.6 million, which is a typical year. This is in a country with 84 million people. There's no way buying a brand-new car every 2-3 years is very common in Germany.

@FriendlyFireYT

Жыл бұрын

​@@FuelPoverty You didn't watch the video, but that's okay. No one is saying to ban all cars or that cars never have a use. But building cities around using cars for personal transport is as silly as building subways out in the rural countryside. It just isn't the right tool for the job. And either way, you the premise of the video is still true. Cars are expensive. Some people need them, and conveniently they are most needed where cost-of-living is usually low. Doesn't make sense for people who don't use cars to pay so much to subsidize car drivers.

Instant like ! Great video, great subject

Cool. I like that you expand into new areas.

Most people (I know) do take cost of ownership into account. It's just that currently the alternatives aren't good enough. Biggest reasons to resist this is something you don't talk about: "Time to travel", "public transport availability (or lack thereof)", and safety on/during the trip (if you're working irregular hours or work in shifts). And that's something I sadly enough notice in your video. Your pov is a work-from-home single person with no kids. That's not the home/work life of the average person. A lot of people have kids (which can require you to travel a lot an can require you to take more luggage with you than bikes would allow), and most people still need to go back-and-forth to their workplace. And these workplaces often lie in areas that are not easily reached by public transport. Or if they have a good public transport available, they only run (well) during 7-19h, which then handicaps people who work in shifts (which is the case with a majority of blue collar workers). People who start at 4-5 AM and/or work until 9-10 PM (not even mentioning night shifts) often can't access this type of public transport, or have to travel in less safe circumstances. For me personally it's time-to-travel & road safety that is holding me back. But luckily that's changing. The Belgian government is slowly rolling out bike highways (fietssnelweg) pathways, and one is scheduled to come on my road to work in the future, which would provide me with a safe road to work that's a lot shorter than the current alternatives.

@ahmadihamid

Жыл бұрын

Travel a lot with the kids? Wow you must be a great father.

@foryou6888

Жыл бұрын

@Andreas Becker "I do this so you can" is not a good argument.

@SenorDelSol

Жыл бұрын

You see, the problems you name are mostly because the system is forced towards cars. If cars and parking would be made more expensive and public transport better half of the people gad mad, always taxing the cars etc. Sadly most societies see cars as the way to move when you do well, you're poor if you don't. Luckily you also name the changes happening.

@DmitriWeissman

Жыл бұрын

@Andreas Becker no it isn't. I want to see you doing 40KM every day in 32C with 70% humidity. Do all people have showers at work? Or/and if you are an average person that physically can't do that. Or if you have couple of kids that you have to take to school/kindergarten in the morning, get to work, get the kids from where you put them in the morning, take them to whatever activity they are doing afternoon, do the shopping get and all of that within 12 hours. Before you start talking about kids on their own, in some countries it's illegal to leave kids unsupervised until certain age - even at home. So while you can and do, many others simply can't for very long list of reasons.

@luckyluca1346

Жыл бұрын

I own a 2012 Subaru Legacy. That just doesn’t break. I live in Switzerland and my yearly costs are (converted to euros): - 2000 euro fo fuel (about 150 a month) - 700 euro for insurance - 300 for road tax - 1000 for parking But seeing that I live in a place that would take me 1.5hrs to commute to the office by public transport, and only 30 min with the car, I do enjoy the freedom of owning one and going on trips. I guess maintenance of a car is costly depending on how reliable it is or not.

As I realized a few months ago: "Nobody" wins with bikes. No insurance -> less "jobs" + taxmoney. It is a well established fact, that insurance companies are an essential part of society and always act in good faith. Less roadwear, better road utilisation -> less jobs at infrastructure companies. Can you imagine a germany without constant road construction/repair? This is a threat to our culture and way of life. Less fatal accidents (oh no, I fell from my bike at 10km/h) -> Poor pharma industry. What shall we do with all the surgeons? The liquor industry will collapse. Do you know how fun it is to stitch a 5 year old back together after a motorbike crashed into his family's car at 160km/h? The humanity. They will loose all will to work. Less money flow -> less taxes. A new bike costs at least 1/10 of a car. If we were to apply mass production price drops and car-equivalent gov subsidies, a great bike could be had for 200€. At that point you could make bikes free and wouldn't even need a lock, since everyone would have one anyway. Less political motivation -> What good and upstanding politician would accept bribes or "promises" from a bike company? No oil imports required -> No seat on the directors board as "retirement" for chancelors. No standout factor -> Great... You spent 10.000€ on a reaaally fancy bike (compare that to a fancy car, lol) and since there are no "SUV" bikes, nobody looks at you in envy, since nobody will even see you in at rush hour. Less air pollution -> How would you even keep the motivation of the plebs down, if they'd get constant exercise in high quality air? A fat + depressed + poor worker is a good worker. All jokes aside, we could literally build a f*cking canopy over ALL major bike lanes, invalidating the weather argument. And with all the money left, we could cyberpunk the sh*t out of our infrastructure with digital assistance and such. With all the money left over everybody could by an AR enabled safety helmet with live weather and traffic updates and entertainment.

@ulrichspencer

Жыл бұрын

+1 for the bike lane canopy concept. I imagine it wouldn't even cost that much to build canopies, at least compared to the cost of road construction and maintenance, but they would do an incredible amount to make bicycling appealing in all conditions. I imagine pergolas with plants, solar panels, or just clear plexiglass could all make for interesting canopy options.

@WantonSoup192

Жыл бұрын

@@ulrichspencer this. www.gardenpatch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/trellis-wisteria.jpg

@j.s.radhakrishnan2006

Жыл бұрын

@@ulrichspencer Lol plexiglass... Try doing that in any country south of Switzerland and north of Antartica.

@ligametis

Жыл бұрын

Bicycles simply are not as comfortable and not as fast. Using only them we are going back to medieval period, even before when horse carts were widespread. Farmer with a horse has more freedom to move around than a person with a bicycle

@ulrichspencer

Жыл бұрын

@@ligametis Have you ever even ridden a bike? I rode an e-bike for a summer job in downtown Boston last year, and it was downright fun. I could cover 5 miles in 25 minutes, faster than a car could go in traffic, or even had I taken the metro. It made climbing hills an absolute breeze, and even hot weather was tolerable, as I didn't have to pedal hard and the breeze took care of the rest. Easy and fun af. Plus, I wasn't a slave to car expenses or to finding parking. Lotsa fun, little hassle, little cost. Car-dependency suburban sprawl is what feels absolutely medieval if you ask me. Trapped in a steel box that costs you thousands per year, slowly killing you of heart disease, stressing you out with every ounce of traffic, and you live literal miles from most of anything. Right now, I live in a city where I can walk to two grocery stores in less than five minutes. That's freedom to me.

Honestly, one of your best videos!

Love this content!

My only problem with this is calling the VW Golf a "small car" :D Idk maybe my standards are different but a small car is a Fiat Panda or even better a Smart. I would consider a VW Golf to be a normal sized car and the Mercedes you showed at the beginning to be a huge car. Sadly there is a trend to bigger cars even here in Germany and thats probably why you said a VW Golf is a small car. Cars are already incredibly inefficient and we keep making them even more inefficient. As a German myself, I hope all of Germany will finally wake up and realize how incredibly unsustainable cars are. Thank you for contributing to that and making this really well made video!

@sethgrissman6833

Жыл бұрын

Here in North America, there are tons of SUVs and huge pickup trucks. A golf is tiny.

@RaduVlad92

Жыл бұрын

I just moved to Germany and I am amazed at how much the car lobying is slowing down Germany. Lacking infrastructure for people and bikes and the pushing for "work in the office is healthy" narrative is what I'm seeing here, guess who'll benefit from that? :) I've lived in the Netherlands, rural Spain, Italy and a very poor Eastern European country and let me tell you, you have a mix of everything, you just need to improve on the "people before cars" and the quality of life will improve exponentially.

@Guy-Zero

Жыл бұрын

@@RaduVlad92 Yep its sad. We had a lot of transportation ministers in the past that seemed to be really close to the car lobby. Doesnt seem to change that much right now but lets hope itll get better especially if more and more citizens put pressure on them

@jamie7664

Жыл бұрын

I live in the US in a major city and used to own a MK7 GTI. Much of the reason I traded it for a 3 Series was due to the claustrophobic feeling I felt while constantly getting boxed in by larger vehicles. In the US you gain very little by having a tiny car like a Golf, even in a city.

@Nendingen

Жыл бұрын

@@RaduVlad92 it is not that simple. With out the car industry, germany will most likely run bankrupt.

Bought my car second hand 7000€. Car Insurance 300€ per year Road tax 150€ per year Maintenance 200€ per year Road side assistance Insurance 60€ per year Fuel 150€ per month (my work pays back 120€) Unforseen fees/costs average 50€ per month Total cost of ownership excluding depreciation => 1670€ per year. Very cheap! When you buy a car second hand it will depreciate much slower then when it was brand new. So the first owner lost the most money when he sold me the car.

@BillyBraga

Жыл бұрын

I generally agree, but you should include the cost of the car in the annual price... You'd probably keep your 7000€ car 5-10 years, so your total would be about 2700€ per year.

@cake5000

Жыл бұрын

If it is toyota or honda you won't need another car for 20 years.

@BillyBraga

Жыл бұрын

@@cake5000 If you bought it 7000 it is probably 10 yo, so you'd keep it 10 more.

Жыл бұрын

@@BillyBraga if you keep it for 10 years, it wont suddenly disappear, you still can sell it for a fair amount

@BillyBraga

Жыл бұрын

@ I know. The calculations in the video do take that into account. It doesn't calculate the amount you buy the car at, only how much less you can sell it every year.

Thank you, this was an eye opener

With a working public transportation system in a urban area I think especially single households can live just fine without a car. I lived in Berlin for a few months and soon decided to drive to work rather than take the train, this was due to the train taking 1h and 20min to my work place from home were as the car in rush hour was 30 - 40min. Those are savings of 40 - 50min each way so over 1:30h a day of my time saved. Also trains where often late when the weather was bad a many coworkers would come in late and have to work longer in the evenings even though they got up earlier than me. Compare this to Tokyo, (lived there for 5 years), where you really dont need a car. Trains where almost always faster and on time and the only time we used the car was for big shopping once a week for things like water etc. If public transport in Berlin and other urban parts of Germany where as good as it is in the Neatherlands, Denmark or Japan, I think we would see a lot more people stop using their cars.

Unless you live and work in a city center where you can bike to work and everywhere else you need to go, the time saved using a car instead of public transport easily makes up for any financial loss if your time is at all valuable. Add to that the convenience factor and the fact that most people don’t have effective public transport where they live and you’ll see why cars are worth it to people who own them.

@joehuttich

Жыл бұрын

Depends how you value my time, unless driving is your hobby it is wasted time, while on public transport you can generally do stuff you would otherwise have to do at home/work etc. Like watch this video...

@joehuttich

Жыл бұрын

@Nemam Ime I guess that is a good point. I am probably biased because I only really use public transport for long distance train journeys (8hrs 4 times a month) I guess 30 mins every day on a bus could be a different situation

@IM-qy7mf

Жыл бұрын

@@joehuttich If you already understand that you're biased, and that you barely use public transport, why do you act as if what you're saying on the matter is factual? @Alexei Exactly. It takes me more than 4 hours (2-way) to get to work and back. I can only do this because I'm young, and I have no other responsibilities. Imagine if only I had a partner? A kid? A parent to care for? An illness? A car is for better or worse a necessary evil for many people.

@joehuttich

Жыл бұрын

@@IM-qy7mf @IM I don't think you can claim a comment that starts with "It depends how you value time.." can be claimed to be making any attempt to be a pure universal fact. It's obviously subjective as is your 4h work commute which is definitely above average and an equally biased starting point. Regardless I may have a disproportionately good experience with public transport but that is in part because I a) use it frequently and b) embrace it Of course getting a bus sucks for someone whose only experience of catching a bus is when there car breaks down, only a regular user will be able to truly find alternative uses of the time once they are fluent in the routes, times etc. Finally I do have a lot of past experience using public transport daily in different contexts. I've had a commute that had me spending 3hrs on buses in rural Scotland each day and I have spent many years commuting on the Berlin Underground too, I have always found ways to use the time well sometimes I wouldn't want to get off the bus at work/ uni/ etc.

@maltepettersson3083

Жыл бұрын

@@joehuttich i use my phone while i drive. Its called multitasking ;)

Man without a car, in a city with good transport alternatives, complains about cars for 20m Cars are the result of poor transport options. My trip to work literally takes twice the time, and costs more on public transport in Sydney. Transport stops late at night, and makes visiting friends difficult. And even if that was all fixed, my bad back makes public transport impractical for most trips, as it hurts to sit on most transport seats, and makes it impossible to carry heavy/bulky items (which I’m often carrying).

@sttonep242

Жыл бұрын

Great comment! Many people forget the ones with medical problems

Great video! More content like this please.

As a student I've owned a Toyota Corolla (Austria), paid 6.200€ and sold after 5 years for 3.000€ - 640€ per year. I've driven 30.000 km with it, which cost about 4.000€ (high estimate) - so 800€ per year. Taxes came in at 600€ per year and repairs and service (new brakes, oil, etc.) make up for 500€ per year. Makes 2540€ per year. Let's be generous and say 3000€. It saved me at least a full day per year in time on planing, walking, waiting, scheduling my time to fit the public trans. schedule and ultimately gave me more time to spend with my family. It also eneabled me to opt for higher paying summer jobs, which would've never been reachable by public transportation (otherwise I would have needed to rent an expensive apartment somewhere near while still paying for my other one). I had the option to buy stuff in bulk, which I could have never carried home otherwise, thus saving me additional money. It gave me flexibility, freedom and spontaneity. I've learned a lot on the way. Absolute win, keep breathing fart air in your crowded hot & stinky bus. In the meantime, I will be driving full speed on the highway.

Here’s what’s interesting for me. I live in the U.S, for the last couple years I’ve been thinkin that a well designed and built public system would be more beneficial to citizens than having a car, and I’m the type of person that legit loves to drive. And I’ll admit, I live in a city that has, what I’d consider, a poor public transportation system. So having a car is pretty much necessary. But if my city and other cities across the country would agree to develop one mass or several mass transit infrastructures. The benefits I feel would out way the expenses us citizens would have to pay and we’d be saving money in the long run.

@birchtree5884

Жыл бұрын

And, for the people like you who love to drive, a good transit system means the people who still drive are the ones who either need or want to drive. They're more likely to be good drivers, and having fewer idiots on the roads is good for everyone.

@lejoshmont2093

Жыл бұрын

I like subways they can be faster than a car. For city interconnect highspeed rail would be nice too. Unfortunately neither are common in the US.

@unconventionalideas5683

Жыл бұрын

@@lejoshmont2093 Alternative modes are a lot more common than they were ten years ago. Problematically, because the country is so huge, and so many systemic factors feed into the problem, it will take a lot of effort and probably some years to correct the situation, unfortunately.

@ElAndresRodriguez

Жыл бұрын

You’ll never convince Americans to give up the freedom of their own cars and roads. We have a giant country that’s near impossible to cover with public transportation and rely on trucks for much more than you may think.

Have to call this out, your figures include depreciation. While this is relevant for new and newer cars, a person has the option of buying a pre-owned car that may have less value in total than your annual depreciation cost. If you look at this from the perspective of someone who buys a 10 year old car (e.g. a reliable Toyota) the figures become dramatically smaller.

@onzaueb

Жыл бұрын

If only used car factories would be a thing... but the lizard people won't allow it!

@tompaah7503

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, but what depreciation isn't, is maintenance. Older cars just need more maintenance. The cheaper the car, the higher maintenance costs they have. By a certain age and mileage nearly everything needs replacing.

@TheVektast

Жыл бұрын

@@tompaah7503 You don't have a car, right?

@seanC3i

Жыл бұрын

@@tompaah7503 Depends on what car you have, many Toyotas do not follow your rule.

@mggt4684

Жыл бұрын

@@tompaah7503 New cars break more often then old cars.

Thanks! Great video

Ich habe deinen Kanal ursprünglich für Technikvideos abonniert. Super, dass du jetzt auch solche Videos machst. Sehr interessant und wichtig!

The one thing I feel like pointing out is that depreciation on used cars is way less than in new cars, which is what I understood you used for your calculations. My car depreciates less than €1000 euros per year, and maintenance is about the same. This are generous estimates. Insurance is about €500 per year. After this, only petrol remains of the direct costs.

@korakys

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, when my car only cost ~1400 euros to begin with and I kept it for 6 years before selling it for ~600 euros... The depreciation costs just aren't a big factor, I'm glad new car buyers exist but I'll never be one myself.

@axayd

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm not some car mad guy but this video is completely flawed since it doesn't take used cars into account and just uses averages. You can get really solid 10 year old cars for £1500 and the depreciation would be like £200 a year and the maintenance wouldn't be too costly either if you know what you are doing.

@trulyUnAssuming

Жыл бұрын

Used cars don't magically pop into existence. Someone has to buy the car new. So if we talk about averages for society in total then it is realistic to use new cars. Because someone in society bears these costs so in the end the averages will be alright

@Till113

Жыл бұрын

@@trulyUnAssuming Well most new cars are bought by company for their employees and after 5 years sold cheaply. The company does get a better price because they buy in bulk and can write the cost off to pay less taxes. So at least here in Germany most people who don't get a company car buy a used car...

@trulyUnAssuming

Жыл бұрын

@@Till113 they pay less taxes which means that the tax payer is paying for the car which is everyone. So tell me how we are not paying for brand new cars again? If it weren't for these tax incentives, the companies might give you the money directly instead...

A very timely and important Video after a prominent neoliberal politican of the government in Germany just claimed that subsidising public transport further would be "unfair to car drivers who don't use the offerings". Which is not only wrong since society is funding car infrastructure with enormous sums - but also glosses over the fact that owning and driving cars is absolutely wealth killer number one! Owning cars and the culture around it is singlehandedly responsible for a significant part of the population (especially on the lower-ish income spectrum) to never build any long term wealth and never save any money - thus keeping them from climbing the social ladder. It is a serious serious problem that really needs to be talked about way more. And this is a discussion that doesn't even bring the environmental aspect into this yet.

@toms8812

Жыл бұрын

Yes, sure. I want to see how you're going to bring food, supplies, harvest resources like timber, gravel etc. without this 'EVIL' car infrastructure. This is the problem with you - liberal city dwelling people, you have no understanding of where all the stuff you use daily comes from. Less roads - less access to resources - harder to get them and they become more scarce or more expensive.

@teatowel11

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you but people drive cars because true freedom of movement is highly valued and often is only achieved with a private vehicle. I don't own a car but i do own a motorcycle.

@Gormilein

Жыл бұрын

@@teatowel11 But try imagining a better world: What really is true freedom of movement? A well planned public transport system that takes you anywhere you want for very little money or even for free? Or a system that forces you to buy a hunk of steel for tens of thousands of Euros that you have to propell yourself over very expensive highways and also pay thousands in upkeep every year? The word of "freedom" and it's equation with cars is a product of decades of ideological lobbying by certain industries. We have to get away from this narrow mindset and aggressively imagine a more livable world for everyone.

@teatowel11

Жыл бұрын

@@Gormilein on the weekend i will ride my motorcycle with camping gear from the city centre out to the hills about 1.5 hrs away. I will then travel by narrow, dirt, forrest roads for several hours up to the source of the river that runs through my city. I'll wild camp 30 kms from the nearest town, far away from everyone. That is freedom and the only option outside of private vehicle ownersip for that would be to rent. I've got my bike set up just the way i like it and i need to be able to depend on it. I can't imagine puplic transport could be viable where my parents live so even though i live in the city, i need a vehicle to have the freedom to visit them. A seemless hastle few car rental for interstate trips would fix that but that is a way off. I've been to singapore and Tokyo so i know a good public transport system can allow you to get around most places more coveniently for your regular commute than car focussed cities. Its not great for going to new destinations though (lots of transfers). Also you are just so dependent. In Australia during covid there were protests and the government just shut down the public transport. Thats not freedom.

@MrNamenloser21

Жыл бұрын

@@teatowel11 I don't, I drive a car because the train connection to work is horrendous

sold my car few weeks ago and i am so happy! the car was just standing weeks long in the middle of berlin (s bahn nordbahnhof 10115) and was just sucking money for parking, taxes, insurance, future tüv ... now im back to carsharing when necessary or just bicycle!

I just used your arguments and figures in a discussion yesterday. Gonna send this video now to them.

I did a calculation for me here in Sweden, and my total cost/year for a large Jeep plugin hybrid, is about to €8000. I'm also including (several types of) road taxes & parking in that, estimated rather safely. Our public transportation is essentially garbage. It's also all different systems everywhere, so getting one of those "travel wherever you'd like", just doesn't exist. Hell, just going to the _next town over_ means a new company to buy a ticket from. UGH. Also, you should make a collab with Economics Explained on this ;)

@kapoioBCS

Жыл бұрын

Sweden’s public transportation is not garbage ffs 🤦🏼‍♂️

@patrik5123

Жыл бұрын

@@kapoioBCS Oh really? Let's ask the public what they think of SJ for example. Or Västtrafik, or one of the other companies operating. And we would have to ask about them all separately, because none of them work well together. Instead of having a state-owned entity responsible for ALL of our public transportation, every person needs to deal with a multitude of companies just to get from one area to another. Nah, it's shit mate. Especially when you start comparing to Germany or Japan.

@Moses_VII

Жыл бұрын

The idea is that the video motivates improving public transport. A video for voters and governments, not changing individual lifestyle. Imagine a city like Baghdad with absolutely no buses. Yeah, this video wouldn't be good advice for them.

@Nithalm

Жыл бұрын

Sweden is quite a large country. If you're not living and working in the same city, then a car is almost mandatory. It works the same in the Netherlands, although public transport will work if you're lucky enough to live nearby train stations, which IS the case for a large enough majority of people. But if you live in a village far away from direct access to a city train station, then you have to jump over to bus stations, etc etc. And that suck. It suck even more if you have to switch trains between different train oprators. Didn't know it's like that in Sweden, but at some trajects in the Netherlands it's the same, but these other operators are only active in small(and rather remote) parts of the country. Majority of the people in Netherlands do not have to deal with that. But I can imagine that it would put ANOTHER drempel to going with public transport.

@Hypernerdwithcam

Жыл бұрын

@@patrik5123 as someone that takes the bus often in västra Götaland - the public transport is ok. Absolutely not garbage,

This is my favorite video of yours by far. I really hope that urbanist ideas keep spreading quickly like they seem they have over the past couple years.

I think the cost of a car is greatly overestimated is this video. The depreciation of more than 3000€ a year is in the case of a brand new car but for a used cheaper car it's actually a lot less. I'm not even considering the fact that 75% of the people in France (that's probably the case in Europe too) don't own their cars but rent it. So you can probably divide the budget by a third or more. The insurance cost is above the roof. Nearly 1200€ for tax and insurance a year is probably the most expensive you can get in my country (France). As an exemple, i pay 300€/year for a car bigger than a Golf. What is other ? 1320€ is a lot so it might be interesting to precise what it is. To counter my own arguments, it seems that all the cost in this video are wildly overestimated (public transport, train, bike maintenance) or maybe Germany is ten time more expensive than France but i doubt it. To conclude, yes, owning a car is probably a lot cheaper than what you argue but so is the case for public transportation and bike. Overall your video makes total sense and the work behind it is impressive !

@sinbob

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the costs are counted for Berlin, which is obviously more expensive than most parts of France. Also the Germans love cars and change them often, have high insurance costs and have infrastructural priority for them. I still think the costs are a bit exaggerated. In Poland I pay for my mid tier SUV 7000 EUR yearly which includes lease, insurance, service, tires and depreciation. On top of that you have to add fuel, parking, maintenance which sums up to about 1700 EUR as I do drive very short distances mostly and go about without the car in the city. This means my cost totals at 8700 EUR yearly in Poland. Of course for a much nicer car than - A new Hyundai Tucson with nice specs. But the numbers fit. And in Poland that amount is much more to bear than in FR or DE

@syriuszb8611

Жыл бұрын

I thought same about depreciation, but in 50 years you need at average 6 new cars, and the cost of 6 cars adds up almost exactly to the depreciation put in video. Also, if you are renting (long term), you for sure will pay for it more than depreciation, the renter would loose money if you didn't. Edit: the only thing is that most people buy second hand cars, so they pay way less for a car. But for those who buy brand new, it is right.

@jiyanreijnders4546

Жыл бұрын

i think it is just really generalised. i live in the netherlands and i got the cheapest insurance i could get for my 2003 volkswagen bora and it is 155 per month and taxes are 55 per month so i already pay €210 a month for the car if i don’t drive it. so i think the numbers could be somewhere near what they are telling us in this video but every country and specefic case differents from each other ofcourse

@Jo_124_

Жыл бұрын

In Germany as well as the whole of Europe by far most of the people own a car rather than renting it. To be honest I'm shocked to hear and can't really believe that around 75% of France are renting cars instead of buying them. It would interest me if you have statistics for that.

@Doofens

Жыл бұрын

His calculation is the actual price of the car when you buy it + upkeep. upkeep alone is about 3k in germany. but you have to buy the car too, thats another 2k/year, depending on how long you keep the car.

Great video, thank you! I usually use my bike in Berlin, or, if I make a longer trip, I calibrate myself on the ring-bahn and bike from there. Combining the two is the most efficient in some cases. What surprised me is that it works in Denver (CO) as well. They only have a few lines, but they cover most parts of the city, you can transport your bike on them, wagons are almost always empty, trains come every 5-15 minutes, ALWAYS on time and it is relatively cheap -- although it is more of a donation as they don't really check tickets. In some areas there are gigantic bike lanes that no one uses. It'd assume it is a result of some overly-optimistic city development program. I was a bit afraid of their huge cars until I realized that, because people are so not used to seeing bikes on the road, they are parodically careful with you. What I'm trying to say is that even tho the city fits the general American metropolis stereotype when looking at how people actually commute, if you bring a European mindset with you, the infrastructure is more or less already there. Maybe it's more of a cultural and not so much of an infrastructural issue in the US. This is just Denver tho, could be different elsewhere.

Small question about the calculations for 50 years cost of ownership, did you keep the depreciation in the calculations? Because the depreciation has a curve and cars usually depreciate up to a point then stagnate for a while. Was that taken into consideration?

@HeadsetHistorian

Жыл бұрын

Almost none of the numbers actually make sense.

@dh510

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this number seems way off and I believe that might be the reason. I have only ever owned used cars, the first one, which lasted me for many years, was not even worth what he assumes to be the yearly depreciation. According to my observations, an average car loses about 50-60% of its value every 5 years on a logarithmic curve. So buying used cars that are 5 to maybe 8 years old should take a huge chunk out of the total cost of ownership. Sure, there might be more maintenance and repairs to deal with, but owning a used car also makes it possible to go to off-brand shops to get the work done or to even do stuff yourself.

@OussamaHamrouni

Жыл бұрын

@@dh510 Yes i agree, i have owned 7 - 8 cars till this point, bought them all used and i made sure i get a good enough deal that when i resell i either don't lose money at all or even win a little ( it's important to mention i only keep the car for 1 to 2 years tops since I'm an enthusiast), and that helped me avoid tbe depreciation all together since cars i buy have already lost a good chunk of their value already and getting a good deal helps a lot.

@QiuSe

Жыл бұрын

There was the assumption that you get a new one after a certain time, which would repeat the appreciation cycle again

@dustojnikhummer

Жыл бұрын

Also that assumes that depreciation is a factor for you.

I have concerns about the reliability of the lifetime income data on the table for lifetime car costs as a percentage of net income/wealth. I realize you didn't put that table together so I went looking for the source. The study in question says they used data from the German Federal Statistical Office and that their full calculations are in the supplement, but the lifetime income calculations are missing in the supplement. My concern is that they may not have inflation-adjusted the income data. The correlation between increases in inflation and income is complex, but that data needs to be adjusted somehow to account for the fact that ownership costs have been inflation adjusted, otherwise those figures are not comparable. Since the paper doesn't provide their calculations, I don't see a way to verify the reliability of their lifetime income data (short of recalculating their figures from the same income data they used and I don't have the energy to do that) It's a minor point since the video and that study are mostly about car ownership costs and those seem rock solid, it just bothers me. Otherwise great video!

@martinhawes5647

Жыл бұрын

Assuming the source data is not inflation adjusted, you can apply a correction: b = a/N * (1- (r^N+1))/(1-r) N= numbers of years a = lifetime income without inflation r = mean rate of inflation over next N years b = lifetime income with inflation

@armadillito

Жыл бұрын

From what I can see in the DE Statis and Credit Suisse reports cited as sources, that table might have been derived by bodging together German wealthy distribution figures with average income figures. If that is the case (and I may have misunderstood) then I wouldn't rely upon it at all.

@jbaidley

Жыл бұрын

Just what I was thinking. I'm not sure why you want to look at lifetime figures here anyway, simply comparing the annual costs of car ownership with annual income should give you a good figure. I tried this and it comes out similar for the lowest income group, at least.

@armadillito

Жыл бұрын

@@jbaidley yeah, and it wants contextualising against typical food, energy and housing costs as proportions of income for those demographics. Doing really good, meaningful stats analysis and presentation is A LOT of work

Amazing perspective!

Mega video! Danke dir! Das werde ich jetzt immer mal als Argumentationsgrundlage vorführen.

The thing is, I don't choose to go by car to save money, I use it to save time. There are some places in my city that by using public transport It takes twice as much time. Moreover at nightime where there are less buses

@copypaste4097

Жыл бұрын

This! And, although you can get stuck in traffic, cars are sadly way more reliable still if you have to be at your destination at a specific time.

@fede1324ee

Жыл бұрын

@@copypaste4097 Yeah, I only find bikes and the subway more reliable. But for a lot of destinations, those are not viable options

@fede1324ee

Жыл бұрын

@@copypaste4097 I guess at the end it depends on destination, and time of the day.

@DementedMK

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately I think a lot of public transportation is badly designed and horribly underfunded. Where I live in the US, buses are the most common short distance thing other than cars, but since they’re always stuck in traffic they’re consistently arriving and leaving early or late everywhere. (Also, for some reason the bus system really likes redoing their arrival times every couple months and not telling anybody? I don’t know why they do this, but it makes the bus system a headache.)

@fede1324ee

Жыл бұрын

@@DementedMK In my city (Buenos Aires) some avenues have bus only lanes so they can avoid traffic and sometimes they end up beeing faster than cars. But yeah, arrival schedule isnt even a thing. The best solution is to have buses have good gps tracking. Some buses in buenos aires have it but not the majority

So..how does that work out if you buy a 20 year old car (corsa) park it on your own property, do the maintenance yourself and sell/wreck it at 25 years old? Only pensioners and companies can afford new cars around here, unless it's an "up".

I loved the video. So did my own calculation for our car (family of three). I couldn't paste the excel sheet here (formatting reasons). But roughly, we spend about 410 euro per month for our car (or 4880 euro per year). We have bought a used Ford Fiesta Ecodrive from 2013 which had run around 30K prior. and have been using it for two years now. We roughly drive 12 to 13K Kms per year. I have assumed that we would use the car only for another 6 years (which is very conservative and I hope we use it for longer). At the end of those 6 years I have assumed I will get to zero euro from the car (so purchase price divided by 6 for each year.

@andreinagy8800

Жыл бұрын

but how do you spend that much? I own a 14k car, got it 10 months ago (new was 36k), since then, insurance was 400, fuel about 820 this for 8k kms, on average with this expensive fuel prices I can get about 600kms for 100euro, I had to get new winter tires for about 600 and car service was 400 so in total about 2200 euros. I live in Romania, here cars make about 10-15k kms every year. I did not count in for the depreciation but I assume, my, 2015 car, could be worth about 7k euros when it is ~12 years old, that will mean I can add up about 1000euro depreciation

Good video, however, I would say it applies for countries where most of cars are bought brand new, i.e. Germany. Where I live (Bulgaria) probably upwards of 90% of cars are bought second hand. It comes as no surprise then that the average age of a car here is somewhere around 17 years. Even in larger cities, most "newer" cars are still around the 6-8 year mark. Most people I know do not change their cars in the 3-7 years span, irregardless if they are well off. Even if you see some high-end car brands like Mercedes, BMW, Porsche and such (talking about newer models or specifications), probably still 90% or more are not bought here brand new, but are imported after they have been driven abroad for around 5 years and their respective lease in that country has ended. As for what the costs are to actually own and run that car - this is actually one of the prime concerns here when buying a car. People really stress on whether the spare parts/repairs are cheap / fuel economy / reliability / actual cost to buy the vehicle. Probably that is the reason there are so many cars from the VAG Group here - virtually similar cars with a high degree of interchangeable parts. And bear in mind that Volkswagen isn't exactly a low-end car. At least here this segment is occupied by the likes of Dacia, Great Wall, Renault, Fiat. Volkswagen and the brands that comprise the group are actually middle to high end segment. Also - I wouldn't call a Golf tiny. It is actually a good representation of the average European's car - hatchback so that you can more easily find a parking space in a densely congested city, enough room for a family of 4 plus luggage, good fuel economy. Think the C-segment actually comprises about 1/5 of sales in Europe, could be wrong though. As for the Corsa - probably could call it tiny, but most people would call it a small city car. Cars like Smart, VW Up and such can be called tiny.

@RajPatel-vq6if

Жыл бұрын

Your argument might work at a personal level, but not at a systematic level. Someone had to buy those cars brand new so that you could buy it used.

@matt69nice

Жыл бұрын

@@RajPatel-vq6if it still means that on a systemic level cars are not being replaced every 3 years. Someone is still buying them on that regular basis, but presenting that regular basis as the basis for average calculations across the whole population is not valid.

@raitis6327

Жыл бұрын

Agree from Latvia. Probably in your country car repairs are cheaper than in germany... Old car doesnt have depresation

@19sjaak

Жыл бұрын

I concur with you on a level of personal costs. However, the (on average) 4600 - 5200 euros that every person subsidises car ownership in Germany still stands (I'm sure the number is different in Bulgaria). The thing is, spending in the order of 5 to 10 times as much on car subsidies compared to public transportation subsidies as a country is a little strange. If we transition to for instance sharing a car with a neighbourhood (e.g. kzread.info/dash/bejne/gYOW2dOrlaSwZJs.html), you can still use it whenever you need to take your family somewhere, while not feeling the personal cost of ownership, or having all those individual owned cars drive and damage roads, necessitating maintenance costs, expansion of road costs, environmental costs etc. We could save a lot as a society this way.

@bsandoval2340

Жыл бұрын

Sadly the statement 90% of the cars being bought are used is just wrong the ratio can never be more than about 50 50 otherwise there wouldn’t be enough cars to go around

I'm not proud of it, but I recently bought a car - last time I had one was 18 years ago. I just got sick of trains being late all the time or often being canceled without any replacement. At peak hours a train car can be filled to the brim with people. Since Germans don't believe in air conditioning, the heat can get insane in the summer - a friend literally got heat stroke last weekend because of this. And then there's the anti-maskers. I just couldn't bear it anymore. I'd definitely ride bikes more often though if I was living in a city that did that well. And I agree with all the points in the video.

@ex0stasis72

Жыл бұрын

Oh ya, I heard about the trains in Germany during the summer getting way too hot. I'm not a big fan of over using AC, but I think it makes sense in areas where a lot of people are at constantly. Maybe if enough people complain and quit taking the train, they'll put AC on them. It's a negative externality, but the alternative is more people driving their own clothing clearance climate controlled cars using much more AC collectively than if they had just put AC on the train.

@midwestnagyfa

Жыл бұрын

Wait, Germany's still doing masks? I mean, intellectual honesty I guess, but are the anti-maskers the exception or most people? Legitimate curiosity

@sagichdirdochnicht4653

Жыл бұрын

@@ex0stasis72 Overusing ACs is absolutely stupid. Uncomfortabely cold, massive waste of money and energy. *Using* ACs ain't, tough. Especially in trains... I mean in theory our trains are supposed to have AC. However, as explained in the video, the goverment spent all our Tax money on cars for the last 70 or so years. Therefore, the train system is absolutely f***ed up. The trains are constantly broken, there isn't enough maintainance personal (or funds to hire more); so staff will focus on the most important things first, because they simply can't fix all. I mean I suppose a working engine and breaks are more important then AC; but in summer they should be required to work (seriously, heatstrokes!). And more importantly, there should be enough fundings to keep all trains in 100% working condition constantly, god damn!

@metacob

Жыл бұрын

@@midwestnagyfa It's only mandatory in public transport and doctor's offices (and hospitals of course)... I don't know about exception, but it's not split 50/50

@towhee7472

Жыл бұрын

Oh no, those evil anti-maskers! lol.

Here in Switzerland we have a public transportation card for about 3800$ a year. With this card you can take almost all trains, busses, trams and even some boats for one year. And the infrastructure is very good. Compared to a car it's actually very cheap

@TheAmericanCatholic

Жыл бұрын

Isn’t Switzerland a landlocked country?

@SwissTanuki

Жыл бұрын

@@TheAmericanCatholic yes it is and we have many lakes..with boats

@pauloshea3741

Жыл бұрын

SBB, GA

Cost of car ownership is looked at through the microeconomics lens by us, or “how much do I pay for it”. This varies a lot, so it’s not very important. The much more important problem is related to cost of car ownership in cities. People owning motor vehicle in the countryside should not be a concern, the problem is the subsidies given to car commuting that encourages people to drive. The cost here seems high because it is calculated using city related figures. Bigger, more populous cities have gigantic car subsidies just by accommodating them and not charging drivers adequately. It might seem like a classist, dystopian nightmare to burden personal motor vehicle owners so much in city that only the needy and the rich can afford personal vehicle in cities, but that’s reality. We skewed the market by subsidising cars so much that we incur other cost to our health and time. Only by pricing it appropriately and combining with investment in dense mass transit and alternative transport can cities transportation be priced appropriately. It’s unfortunate but city transportation space and time are luxury and if you use it you should pay for it. In the countryside, this shouldn’t be an issue as large roads are subsidised by goods transportation. It works because there are not enough vehicles to be subsidised by goods volume. However, the moment there are enough cars using the same transport roads to cause traffic jam, the subsidy is used up and we enter deficit territory. That’s why only in and near cities are personal transport a big problem.

I really hope the Philippine government watches this video. This is exactly the reason why we need mass transportation and not just roads.

I'm loving the Not Just Bikes revolution, where suddenly, even tech KZreadrs are starting to get involved with communicating the costs and problems of cars. Thank you for doing your part!

@boroborosu2410

Жыл бұрын

you'll own nothing and you'll be happy

@midori9566

Жыл бұрын

@@boroborosu2410 Very original, only seen this line posted 50 times before. No clue where you're from but if it's the U.S like me your rights are simply a suggestion. We literally have a constitutional amendment that says you can be enslaved if you're imprisoned. Not to mention Civil Asset Forfeiture in case of a crime, it doesn't take much for a cop to plant a bag of drugs in your car, then for them to seize it as "Evidence." People shouldn't have to own massive, deadly machines to get to work. We don't own them, they own us and our streets.

@Yanate1991

Жыл бұрын

Yeah sod off

@lenjaminbang

Жыл бұрын

I know RIGHT, after having joined r/fuckcars a year ago, just a month ago I found NotJustBikes and I couldn't get enough of it. So glad that more and more people realize the severeness of the cars' disadventages.

@Yanate1991

Жыл бұрын

@@lenjaminbang you sound like a bot with that wording

Really loved the video. What we are seeing right now, is the result of Car Companies Lobbying for years and years all over the world. Here in the US, on a Residential Area of Sacramento, CA, I have to walk 2 Km for a crosswalk... Basically, if you don't have a car, you can't go anywhere, since the public transportation is no existent (I have never seen a Bus around my neighborhood for example).

@lejoshmont2093

Жыл бұрын

Ironically Sacramento was my first experience with a light rail.

@ThePowerLover

Жыл бұрын

But now we're seeing quiete the opposite lobby. They want the private cars only for the "elite".

Man, I see you've done a great job! the value of your video goes far beyond people's watch time. definitely subscribing today! Thank you, man!

I am in NL and already very bicycle / public transport / walking minded, and this video still is an eye opener! I am amazed by the external costs of driving. How will we ever revert this driving situation? Thank you!

Since half of car owners don't understand the costs of car ownership (including myself), can you explain the costs more fully at 2:48? What is included in "other?" You may also want to include a time factor for comparing different modes of transport. There is a cost for the amount of time it takes to get from door to door. Let's say walking is the cheapest form of transportation but it takes 1 hour to walk versus driving 15 minutes with a 5 minute walk from the parking to final destination. Taking the train might take 35 minutes plus a 10 minute walk, etc. There is a cost associated with these various times.

@G91YS

Жыл бұрын

Learn to live more slowly. Not in a rush. Yes you might lose some time, but you're free on the ride to read, learn, work too.

@zxil6

Жыл бұрын

2 possible counter counter arguments. First, are you willing to work during the saved time? If not and it's just for leasure, can you really convert the saved time into hard cash and compare it to the hard cash in the subsidies? If not, why not just make the subsidies even for private vs public (it states in the video that it's private leaning) and see which people pick? Being more market-ish rate? 2nd, how much more time would be wasted in traffic jams if people drove more due to more drivers from reducing the subsidies for public transport or more subsides for private transport. Probably more relevant to cities already with traffic problems or in a city where there are people demanding more private transport subsidies. In the city that I live in with a relatively small population (1.5m), I've been in traffic jams during off peak hours that doubled the time for my trips. (Yes, I'm a car owner)

@fanban2926

Жыл бұрын

Other might be parking and such

@KyrieFortune

Жыл бұрын

yeah, of course it takes so much less by car, everyone is speeding. I have recently gotten my licence and I am constantly overtaken despite running at the speed limit - sometimes I speed and STILL I am overtaken by everyone.

@swgar

Жыл бұрын

Biking should be much cheaper than walking since walking cause substantial shoe wear

The comparrison is quite flawed, you compare one car to options of one person.

You, sir, are a champion. Congratulations on an amazing work.

Amazing video!

If you look at the calculations for cars, the biggest single expense in that calculation is depreciation. If you buy a new car and keep it for 10-15 years, it shouldn't really matter very much, as it's been a useful asset in that time period. If you buy a 10 year old car and sell it when it's 15, it wouldn't have lost much value, as cars loose most value in the first 4 years. If you buy a new car and sell it after 4 years, then you are an idiot. I bought my car when it was 9 years old. Now it's 13 years old, and I could sell it for almost as much as I bought it for, because used car prices have increased.

@CastaneaMa

Жыл бұрын

Also you can often share trips in your car with your family for basically no extra costs. In public transport, everyone needs their own ticket. Public transport is also heavily subsidized which is something not mentioned here at all. Just the cars social costs have been taken into consideration. Most ÖPNV operates at a hefty loss in Germany.

@DenebTM

Жыл бұрын

@@CastaneaMa Please at least watch the video before whining about government subsidies for public transportation, that part IS being addressed here.

@Blox117

Жыл бұрын

useful? how is a 4000lb motorized wheelchair useful? i can ride my unicycle everywhere just as fast, go indoors with it, is less expensive quieter easier to use and so on/

@BigFx

Жыл бұрын

@@CastaneaMa he did actually cover the subsidies. The social cost is complete BS though. A bus driving on the same road also incurs same social costs. It's not like the roads disappear because there is less cars on it - you need deliveries, ambulances, police, whatever, so the road would be built anyway.

@DenebTM

Жыл бұрын

@@BigFx There's a big difference between a street used primarily by cars and one used primarily by buses and service vehicles, in terms of noise and air pollution, maintenance, walkability, accessibility, and so on - simply because there are fewer motor vehicles going by. Obviously, some maintenance is always going to be required, and some roads or streets are never going to be pleasant, but as it stands, far too many of them could be if they weren't blighted by car traffic instead.

Keep in mind, trucks will still need to make deliveries on roads no matter how few cars people drive. The roads need to be maintained for many reasons aside from personal vehicles

@ElAndresRodriguez

Жыл бұрын

These people don’t think things through on a scale that big lmao. They think things just magically appear at their doorstep when buy things from Amazon or buy things from a grocery store.

@donaldotjf4894

Жыл бұрын

@@ElAndresRodriguez 👍

@Phil_OG

Жыл бұрын

Had to scroll way to far for this. I generally agree with most said in the video but he totally missed this point. So his total cost of car ownership (privat+social) is misleading. (at around 14:40)

@kamoke2011

Жыл бұрын

Costs less to maintain streets if less cars drive over it. Also, see notjustbikes video abt cargo bikes for delivery.

@My_Old_YT_Account

Жыл бұрын

@@kamoke2011 in northern countries your road gets fucked because of the freezing long before they're used up by actual use

Great video!

Thorough video from perspective of single preson living in huge crowded city. I live in Switzerlan where the cities are not as big but they are rather diversified, where public transportation works perfectly, where bike infrastructure is given a fair chance with cars, and I still own a car. Reason being I live in a smaller city near bigger one (for Swiss standards), have a family of four, and I use car mostly on the weekends for family trips, grocery shopping (yes, once a week full trunk 😁). I go to work by bike/public transport, which means I pay a tank of fuel per month. The full insurance is not that cheap, but tax is. I park in a garage place that comes with the apartment (so no taxpayers money there). Car also has free service included for 10 years... But the main reason is convenience! I have access to car sharing, but you have to plan it in advance, you have to get the child seats in some how... I value my time and flexibilty and this is hard to evaluate in spreadsheet. Knowing your car (the space you have in it, equipment, etc...) gives you a bit of piece of mind especially with kids... So yes, looking at the numbers, it makes sense what you say, especially in crowded cities, but there are other factors that are hard to put the price on. And I just did calculation for my case and it is nowhere near the numbers you suggest, for the car bigger and more expensive than Golf...

I think the Bahncard100(which I assume you meant by "all inclusive ticket") also allows you to take local transport. If so, at 6:16 you shouldn't add the 978€ on top.

I sold my car last year, my mom said I wasn’t going to save any money. She only was thinking about my insurance and gas cost which was less than half the vehicle costs.

Really good Video and Spreadsheet! Thanks! I've noticed some typos that I just wanted to list if you want to fix them: A26: "service/yt" instead of "service/yr" L29: this should say "vehicles" since bikes are included K28: this should say "private vehicle ownership" since bikes are included

This is an amazing Video, I love it 100% useful for everyone...

I also noticed that people vastly underestimate their TCO, since they often only look at gas prices. But you can significantly reduce your yearly costs by buying used and smart. My Ford Focus '15 Diesel has cost per km of around 0,19-0,22ct/km and in 5,5 years of ownership it cost me around 15.000€ (not including the purchase price but the depreciation). Another point I want to mention is the city argument @ 16:22. By definition I live in a small city in Germany, but that doesn't make the ÖPNV at all comparable to big cities like Berlin. We don't nearly enough have the same amount of train/bus connections and even that what we have really dies down at evening/night. A recent example would be from visiting a friend in Stuttgart. On my way back home I actually took 3 hours to get back home (normal is 1.5 hours). Due to full and late trains I took substantially more time. This is not acceptable when in contrast Google Maps shows me under 40min for the same route via car.

@jeanf6295

Жыл бұрын

To buy used and smart, someone must have paid a good chunk of the new and expensive price though. The Deutche Bahn being unreliable kinda falls under point 5 of the video. The not just bike video on Switzerland trains shows that city size does not matter that much when it comes to rail infrastructure. Low density urban sprawl is a nightmare to service, but villages and small urban centers can be efficiently connected by regional rail.

@jacopochiefjaco123

Жыл бұрын

I agree with what Jean f says - check Not Just Bikes video to get a proper response to your post.

All these arguments don't stand anymore if you are a family, live away from public transport and have bad weather half of the year. Also, more than half of this cost includes depreciation. No one thinks of a car as an investment. They know that it's money down the drain, but they still pay for it for the comfort. Any money you get by selling it later is actually bonus money. They same thing can be said about things like furniture, refrigerators etc, you don't but them as an investment, you consider it an expense which you can probably sell for some money after you use it.

@darklelouchg8505

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. I'm all for some improvements to modern transport infastructure, but when the calculations and arguments rest on flawed/deceptive propositions, that is when they lose credibility with me.

Glad to see more people realizing that cars are not a necessity and there should be options for those who don't want to drive or own a car. People that want to drive are already catered to everywhere, let's help out the folks that want to move differently