nice to see, i believe upgrading the tires and tube first before upgrade the wheels to see difference

@anders6383

3 ай бұрын

100% agree. Wheels make a big difference but tires make an even bigger difference.

@gourami7

3 ай бұрын

​@anders6383 No not really, great wheels really make a bike. So many pricey bikes are shipped with dross

@ch-de7ys

3 ай бұрын

Yes please!

@iacobp

3 ай бұрын

Agreed. Cheaper upgrades first. Wheels last. That will make the testing more relevant to budget cyclists

@jamesmckenzie3532

3 ай бұрын

​@@iacobpHe can even stay in brand. Switch to a set of Corsa tyres. I run the N.EXT and they are good. I know someone who ran the Corsa Pro tyres, but had issues with debris punctures.

Latex tubes, the best tires you can get, waxed chain, aero bars, aero wheels. this is the upgrades I would do, in this order.

@MaartendeJager

3 ай бұрын

👌👍

@jamesnichols5163

3 ай бұрын

You would chose latex over tpu, just for rolling resistance?

Cam, give us that old school BMC rim brake weight 6:29 👀

@CamNicholls

3 ай бұрын

Coming…

I have that exact frame. Upgraded from mechanical to Ultegra 12 speed, Zipp 303s, Easton -17 stem with EC70 aero bars, some fast rubber and boom. Bike feels amazing with easy maintenance and cable routing (fully guided internal brake lines, simple headset etc. love the bike.

Brilliant project, Cam. Suggested upgrades- tires, wheels, bike fit, streamline any of the exposed cables (the video it appears clean), skip the areo bars and of course a non-white kit. 😳🤣

I'm super happy with my $799 polygon aluminium 105 mech, rim brake bike. Best deal I could find, gonna ride it to the ground, not upgrading a thing.

Great video Cam, can’t wait to see the end result. I’ve recently purchased a new MERIDA. I had my heart set on the Scultura 9000, but with the help of my local bike shop I settled for the 6000, exactly the same frame but with 105 Di2 instead of Ulterga with which I am more than happy with. This allowed me to purchase a set of 50mm SCOPE carbon wheels & upgraded to GP5000 tyres with TPU tubes & a left side 4iii power meter crank, also 105. This all still came in roughly $1000 below the 9000 & I’ve still ended up with a bike that is way above my ability & a joy to ride.

@Jackisaboss1208

3 ай бұрын

I did almost the same. Purchased an Emonda SL5 w/mechanical hydraulic 105. Grabbed a left sided stages power meter plus 50mm Hunt wheels. All in I paid around $2900 US, and the bike is everything I need and more

@iancreighton1

3 ай бұрын

@@Jackisaboss1208 100% I still run mechanical Ultegra. I’ve never had to change a cable or fix the shifting. I would run electronic if they made a battery I didn’t have to charge.

@benturp3492

3 ай бұрын

Merida Reacto 4000 here 105 mechanical and hunt 54mm Aerodynamicist wheels with schwalbe 1 pro Tubelss. Can't wait to take her out for a ride

@johngwheeler

3 ай бұрын

@@iancreighton1You know that Shimano Di2 batteries last for at least 1000-1500km don’t you? Charging is something I do once every couple of months and takes maybe 2-3 hours….hardly a big deal considering I charge other devices pretty much every day

@davidmundowyahoo7839

3 ай бұрын

Going for 105 and putting the savings into better wheels and tyres is very sensible 👌 You've likely got a better performing bike for less money

Let's keep in mind that the silver fox is a "budget bike." Any upgrades you make should also be in the context of budget. Realistically someone would probably just upgrade the wheels, tyres, latex tubes and not an aero handlebar. I'm so curious to see how just a wheel and tyre upgrade will affect performance. Great content!!

@ikiboisart

3 ай бұрын

I agree.

@jlang123

3 ай бұрын

Exactly. If there was an additional 2-2.5k left in the budget for "upgrades" the wrong bike was chosen as the starting point.

Glad to see a video like this. A bike like that is all you need for road racing and criteriums; good enough to get you to the point where shops or teams start giving you (or giving you massive discounts on) expensive equipment.

Great vid. Crazy how exy new bikes from the big brands are in 2024. I bought low mileage supersix evo with 105 for $200AUD yesterday here in Adelaide. Only problem is not my size so I will sell it for 4-600AUD. Rim brake bikes are selling for peanuts in 2024. It is crazy to see. That 2013 would absolutely rip apart any of the modern day bikes for sure. Ive ridden a mates and it is way faster than the latest disc version.

@MaxwellPowers666

3 ай бұрын

No one cares what you have to say anymore because it's the same drivel you've been pedaling for years.

Hey Cam, love both yours and Neil's content. I've finally got my first roadie and it's a BMC Team machine ARL two! I would have loved to have seen the comparison with this one.

Always interested in your choice for background music ! Sometimes Chopin, Beethoven sonatas, and today's jazzy Satie's Gymnopédie 🙂

@Florian_SL

3 ай бұрын

there's also a "Silent Night" jazz version right at the ending. 😇

@remitournier2526

3 ай бұрын

@@Florian_SL I didn't catch this one damn it! I was probably more interested in the actual content 😁

Great video and an important message. So much is being made of the hyper-inflated prices in cycling right now (that is a very valid conversation that needs to be heard), however, this message that 90% or more of the road cycling public should not be considering the top-end models is often overlooked. What I hope we see is that manufacturers will do a better job of taking a particular model/design of a frame and offering a range of options throughout the various price points. In addition, since a lot of the prominent cycling discussions and content here on KZread (such as your channel) are vendor supported and driven, it would be fantastic to see vendors intentionally driving content towards the mid-range frames and not just for the most high-end models. The message and approach that you are taking with this series is fantastic!

Thanks Cam, great idea for content. I would definitely like to see the differences when you upgrade the wheels, tyres of the silverfox. I have the Roadmachine 5 with 105 di2 and noticed a big difference in performance when I upgraded to carbon rims and better tyres. Would be good to do a comparison with same pair of rims and tyres on both Frames. Thanks again and keep up the good content!

@stevesmith9082

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, I have the same bike and did the same as you new carbons and high end tyres with TPU tubes. Made a big difference. Only thing I dont lke about the bike is the line out logo

Great video, cheers Cam. Nice to see the local cycling features, even if you thought to do the circuit backwards🙃

Doing pretty much the same thing with a 2024 propel advanced 1. Replaced the rival powerless crank with a red crankset with power and I was expecting to replace the wheels but the slr2 are pretty nice and I was impressed to be honest! Really really cool video idea honestly! I would try and replace tires, wheels, tubeless or latex. If there’s money left maybe bars

"Why BMC paid me to promote cheaper versions of their overpriced bikes to sell more bikes"

@Millicente

Ай бұрын

"Why Specialized paid me to bad mouth a video without watching it to promote their overpriced versions of their overpriced bikes to sell more bikes" Oh sorry my tin foil hat was on

@kurtalexander3683

14 күн бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

Really missed the Old Fella interjections on this one 😞

@silverburn55

3 ай бұрын

The amount of sponsor-induced selling out in this project was probably too much for his heart... 🙂

Love this concept. I know you have a tendency to cater to normal every day people in your content and this is exactly what so many of us do! Looking forward to watching the rest of the series!

Exactly that bike I bought last year and I love it! great value for money. Already upgraded the wheels 😊 what brought it under 8 kg. Now looking to an Ultegra cassette.

Love where this is going. 👍 This is a project im currently doing on an old rim braked bike ive had sitting in the shed for a few years. It comes down to what the goal is weight or speed. I went weight, so it was chinese 1 piece bar/stem, crankset, tyres and latex tubes, the wheelset on it isnt that bad so maybe further down the track i might upgrade. If speed was the goal wheelset/tyres and drive train/bearings would be top of my list.

Would love to see some, TPU inner tube with some P zeros, and new rims 500 to 1000 USD, love the idea that ale can get you 90+ percent of the speed of a top tier bike. Thanks for your content

Great Video man, as a Fan of the Teammachine I highly appreciate the Silver Fox, I had a 2019 Modell with 105 Mechanical for four years and was super with it, upgraded the Wheels to some lighter ones, not Aero and no Carbon, Alloy wheels at around 1300g the pair, Different tyres and a new Handlebar and it was an absolute dream to ride. Would start with the tyres and tubes

I’m very much interested in this since I also have an entry level bmc TM slr 07. Love to see what will be the result. Thank you!!!

I have a silver fox of my own lol I've changed the bars, wheels, tires, saddle, and cranks. Love it

This is great. There aren't enough reviews on entry level & mid level bikes.

TL;DW: Don't spend all your money on a high end bike, go for a tier 2 or budget frame and make several upgrades for a good price. This is exactly what I did getting into crit racing. I bought the last rim brake bike Canyon made, the Ultimate SL8 for $2700 US and upgraded with Elitewheels, carbon 3D printed saddle, 4iiii power meter, GP5000 tires, and premium latex tubes. I turned a 7.02 kg climbing bike into a sub 7kg all-rounder race bike.

I just bought this bike (SLR 5), as it was heavily discounted, and had the same upgrade ideas! I slapped on some Corsa Pros and a new saddle and it feels *fast and fun*. Carbon wheels would make another big difference I bet. Very excited for the results of your tests 🙌

Video: you can ride entry level bike Brain: Right. First I prove myself I can be fast on cheaper bike and then I anyway buy expensive bike for sake of having it. Manufacturer: We sold you two bikes, please keep going!

Wondering if you also try the silver fox with upgraded socks, aero suit before the bike itself?

I built a 2023 SLR FRS (Frameset) with Shimano Dura-Ace 11 Speed Disc and Zipp wheels and Cockpit. I was not ready for the integrated cockpit and wanted to roll the parts I had on my Roadmachine to this bike. My ready to ride weight with pedals, and computer is approximately 7.2 KG. This was a very tasty option that I am happy with. I predict like for like parts the SLR will equal the SLR01 in your testing. Particularly if you use the same wheels between the two builds.

I just bought the very same bike, my old bike was a 2010 Colnago M10 with a mix of Dura Ace and Ultegra. Man I can't believe how smooth and responsive this bike is, absolutely stoked. I was lucky enough to get the bike with a 37% discount.

The legs are doing the work, it's a bike. Medium bike category with upgraded wheels and tyres and that's it for us mortals.

Can, what software do you use to get the in video power and speed graphics? Cheers

Great to find this video, I did the same thing with the BMC Twostroke. Bought the AL version and with the £1200 saved over the 01 carbon version spent the money on upgrades. The wheel upgrade alone offset the weight difference, SID's carbon post and bars too. Much better and lighter bike for the same money.

Love the idea. As a past owner of a BMC ALR2 I would have loved you choose that one. I more likely think the BMC SLR5 is hard sell from them. Brought and waited 5 months for a BMCSLR05, but they turn around and said stuff you. I am not bitter I promise. Looking at $5000 AUD ish, it sounds cheaper when you say it in USD.

I remember many years ago when GNC used to conduct these types of tests. At one point, they compared a normal round tube road bike with aero wheels to a full aero road bike with the same wheels, and the difference was just a few seconds.

I got the ALR one and basically did this. 40mm ICAN carbon wheels with Corsa Pros and tpu tubes, waxed chain + 38cm handlebars and it feels pretty much perfect. Bike was 2000 euros, which is a bargain for SRAM Rival Etap.

Have this very same bike and love it. Only thing I’d be updating is the wheel set. No complaints with the 105, and I’ve come to find the Fizik seat a good fit to what I like. Appreciate the details on carbon design between this and the top tier frame.

A nice pair of wheels with a good set of tires should make up most of the difference. You could go for a carbon handlebar but an integrated cockpit would be pointless seen as the SLR fork doesn’t allow for internal cabling. I also built up a SLR frame with 2nd hand Speedsix 45 wheels and Ultegra Di2 11sp. The whole thing cost me 4000€ and weighs only 7.3kg. The Teammachine is an excellent platform

Great video! Suggested price range for upgrades: $1000

It will be awesome to see the comparison with the ALR model :)

The Crit Pig!!! Loved those videos - got me watching your channel. Still here.

What are you using for video telemetry?

I had the 2021 BMC URS Al with sram apex. Had a splash of weight but matched with redshift stem and post, was a gem.

Maybe it's just our second hand market, but for 3-4k USD you can get an insane value top-end bike in a like new condition.

@KILLTHEREDDITOR

3 ай бұрын

Haven’t watched the video yet but did he seriously call a $4k BMC an “entry level” bike? That’s the price of a brand new TCR Advanced Pro lmao

@SuperPaintball13

3 ай бұрын

Australian $ probably

@OfViseAndMen

3 ай бұрын

@@KILLTHEREDDITOR Australian dollars

@maurozky1

3 ай бұрын

@@OfViseAndMenit's still US$2,600, and 105Di2 is hardly entry. The 'entry' bar is being moved higher and higher, and the industry is doing a good job in convincing people -especially young people - that the more they spend, the better cyclists they'll be. Pity, as it probably keeps people from entering the sport, or cause them to spend more than they should, in an already expensive sport.

I just got an slr01 frameset from a friend and am building it up with the selle smp full carbon saddle, coefficient cycling bars, zipp 303s and 105di2. All items purchased second hand or taken off other bikes. All-in, I am well under 3k. I think you could probably get a nice set of wheels with Schwab’s pro one’s a full carbon seat and the coefficient bars for about 1.5k-2k (new/used).

Great experiment. If you do upgrades please make sure to do one at a time and no combinations. I would like to see a tire upgrade first, than the weels with high end alloy first before switching to steep carbon.

I’m waiting with anticipation. Due to ageing issues(77yrs) I sold my Teammachine after a bike fit and replaced it with a Roadmachine full SRAM Red, 3D printed saddle. Went from a 51 to 47 frame and 165 cranks. So far this has been the best fit and ride I’ve ever had. Most bikes were too long and low. So I can hardly wait to find out the final upgrades and if the “raciness” is diminished at all.

would like to see you get an aeropod and redo some of these tests, if there is an aero advantage or change, this is the device that is likely to be able to show the difference (quantifiable?) for each change, tyres, wheels, handle bars, position.

I changed my bike to the Roadmachine 01 five last year and the only changes I've made so far is a Most saddle and Fulcrum racing 4 dB wheels. Love the bike comfy on any distance but also fast when I need it to be.

Great video - love this ❤

That silver SLR is a beautiful bike, you have rocketed it to the top of my wishlist. my girlfriend drives a silver V8 Commodore, ive sold my car cause I ride everywhere, think they'd look good together! and its actually an achievable price. Thanks for the vid!

Up grade the wheels only this will bring the two models much closer thanks loved the video a real comparison NO BS as always .

good cam, for the silver fox it would be good to upgrade the cassette wheels and handlebars. I have a Scott Addict RC40 that came with an 11v mechanical ultegra and aluminum wheels. I mounted a 105di2 but I fitted an ultegra 11-30 cassette, I noticed a huge difference, I also fitted vision sc55 wheels with gp5000str tires and the bike was completely different.

Besides wheels and tires I would consider the Ultegra cassette and Ultegra front derailleur. I was talking to a Shimano rep and he told this would be a way to getting the hyper glide that doesn’t come on the 105.

Great idea and 1st video. I agree with most members here, wheels, tires , light rear cassette( DA cassette is a lot lighter vs 105). If is light weight you are after swapping the stem/handlebar for a 1 piece will save you at least 150g and provide some aero benefits. I would allocate $2500 for the pimping

Did e a rough test on my own between a carbon gravel bike and a steel frame one, once I upgraded the steel frame to carbon wheels and even with a three pound difference I would say at an amateur level there is very little difference in performance. I was a bit surprised figure it would be very significant but can never underestimate how slow I really am. cheers

Very valuable video. This confirms many others I’ve seen from GCN etc that show that there’s practically no difference for the average cyclist between the entry level bike in a range and the 10k plus range toppers. Granted 10 seconds might be valuable if you are racing in earnest but 99.99% of people aren’t and would be better thinking in terms of…..”instead of getting this dura ace €14k SL8, I could get a decent road, endurance and mountain bike and a bike holiday”.

@user-it5us1pv1k

3 ай бұрын

I agree😊

@allegrobrio968

3 ай бұрын

I agree, too. Like Cam, I left the corporate world, but in my case it was because I retired. I still love to ride, but I resist getting high-level bling because it would make no difference in my performance (such as it is in my golden years!). I chuckle when I see others my age spend thousands on fancy carbon wheels, carbon aero stem/handlebars, top level frames with hidden cables, etc., etc., when at most it might shave a few seconds of their times to reach their favorite coffee shops. That's their choice, but for me, I have better ways to spend my money.

is the team machine good for long rides but also for races or flat fast rides? can’t decide between the road and team machine. I need the most versatile option

Hey I have an SLR1 road frame sitting in the corner of my office. No groupset/wheelset/handlebars. One day I'd like to build it up! I'm a casual rider, and normally ride carbon 10x2 road bikes.

friends, many of you have great tips on cockpit, wheels, tires. But what other modern frames besides the BMC Silverfox are great for creating a light bike. On which forum could I find out more information about building my own bike?

Thanks for the video... Great & interesting content. How about riding experience...like comfort, smothness, stifness...

More runs and data please!

Quite surprising BMC would support this exercise because it defrays the myth aka phony marketing that superbikes are measurably faster than more modest offerings. Many amateur racers have known this for years. PS. don't need electric shifting either and some like me don't want it. Any bike would be as fast with Rival 22 and rim brakes and save $2K. Silver Fox just needs a decent, cheap carbon wheelset and high thread count tires. Nice video Cam...kind of info amateur bike racers appreciate.

Upgrade tires tubes, wheels, ENVE aero stem, and aero bars. That should do the trick. Most drag and resistance is located in those areas I think. My 2010 Cannondale Supersix Hi Mod felt like a big paddle grabbing the wind, compared to modern bikes before I made those changes. It doesn’t hurt that it’s very light with its ancient SRAM Red mechanical components and Zipp 303 firecrest wheels. But, the oldie but goodie can still take names when the guy behind the arrow is in shape. She can be a sleeper..

From my own testing, with an old AL roadbike with exposed cables, the same bike with tri extensions, an modern aero cf roadbike and a modern cf TT bike, it seems that the following tierliest holds true when riding solo (unless you're literally only doing hill climb championchips): rider position > rider fitness > bike aerodynamics > tire rolling resistance > bike weight (within reasonable margins like at most 2 to 2.5kg apart) :: Rider fitness can be a huge contributing factor but holding an aero position or at least an aerodynamically favorable position is also part of the rider fitness as it depends on additional core and upper body muscle groups (as opposed to mostly legs and glutes), so I'd say the two are closely intertwined. Here's an example: the AL bike with extensions and heavy puncture resistant tires was about 3 to 4kph slower on average on a 65km rolling terrain round course, compared to the all tricked out TT bike. The easiest way to make your bike faster therefore are the wheels and tires but they will not give you nearly as much as training your position and overall fitness. So if you can handle it, an effective upgrade are lowering the stem and using narrower bars or slapping extensions on it. In a crit or local race riding in the bunch will further mask your bike's lower ability. You will loose everytime in a world tour race on said bike even on top end fitness, but are you going for that? And if you are you will find a way to trick out your bike.

flat test over 10 min please, this is a cool series

What was the weight of the old rim brake? Tyres first for shits and giggles, then some Winspace Hypers.

The Giant TCR with 12 speed Shimano 105 Di2 and carbon wheels is just US$3,500. Great value.

How much weight the stock mavic wheels with stock tires please?

Nice, when you upgrade can you do only one component so we can see what's the best bang for buck upgrade?

Interesting choice of music near the end there; Silent Night?

Awesome content, thank you!

Big yessss to the thong protocol. Keen to see how this develops mate. Surely new hoops and you’re pretty close.

Pimping a new bike is all about the wheels and cockpit. That's where manufacturers make their cost savings. Tyres first, then wheels, then cockpit. An ultegra cassette is also a big upgrade over 105.

On my road bike which I use as a hill climb bike, i went for a cheapo aluminium frameset fitted with aero wheels, low RR tyres, carbon crankset (most of groupset weight saving is the crankset) and then i noticed that the XTR cassette was lighter than the ultegra cassette so I fitted a xtr cassette with a 1x aero chainring Silver fox might be interesting with some carbon wheels, conti gp5000, dura ace crankset, xtr cassette and 1x miche aero chainring.

Hi Cam, Youve more or less nailed it there... Yes a much cheaper bike does do 4.5/5ths of the job. Aye wheels tyres, tubes, skewers (or through axles, whatever). Also the BB and cranks... just makes sure theres good quality gear in there, doesnt have to be near ceramic price, just make sure Aaron or Jay fits good/proper bearings, maybe without seals? And for a performance gain, look away from Shimano and FSA.. try Miche, Campag, THM and so on for a cheeky bit of smart speed. cheers, m

For around $250, I’d like to see the upgrade include a set of Vittoria Corsa Race TLR tires running with Vittoria latex tubes. Also, investigating different tire pressures would be interesting.

Finally, I've been looking for this comparison! The silver fox is my premium bike ^^

Those time gaps are huuuge considering the small distance of the tests.

Nice vid Cam. As for change, I’d go with tires. P Zero Race, Cadex Race, Schwalbe Pro One in my experience. GCN is now sponsored by Elite wheels. I wonder if you have given them a try?

I‘ve always wanted to see someone test out the „Hunt 44 Aerodynamicist Alloy“ wheels on a „cheaper“ project like this. They cost 500 bucks, are very light and I dont think there‘s a comprehensive test out there. If they fit your idea of the upgradepath - instead of going 2nd hand cabron wheels I‘d assume - give them a look

I am still riding the first roadmachine 01 from 2017. Lovely bike. Just costs too much to replace these days and the handlebars are too narrow, and an expensive change over.

Cam, totally off-topic: I would like to have a few details about your blue shirt :D Stiching and form looks like a good quality.

What was the weight of rimnrake SLR01???

I might go on the same route soon 🙊

Panda Podium CRW CS4045 Wheels (1200g) - $1,700 Presta Cycles 1 piece Cassette (200g) - $275 Continental GP5000 30c Tires (550g) - $125 Ride Now Ultralight Inner Tubes (80g) - $25 Avian Falcon Carbon Barstem (300g) - $275 $2,400 USD and lower the weight of the BMC by almost 1150g (2.53 lb). So 7.1kg for $6,000 is not bad.

Good video. After many years of riding and racing at a variety of different levels (and bicycle levels) I've decided on my most recent bike to be an entry level carbon with 105. I'll likely upgrade the wheelset/tires at some point. I make a decent living but it still just isn't worth the cash to get a super bike. The performance improvements are very negligible and since I'm a heavier/punchier rider the extra grams don't concern me at all.

If like to see difference just updating tires and tubes first

Elite wheels edge 50mm/65mm, Conti GP 5000 TR. Bars should be 38cm?

Oh yeah... Cam, this is going to be a really interesting series.! I'm in..! First, tyre tube(latex) upgrade= test times Second, new hoops- similar section carbon wheels but cheaper than big brands( maybe Chinese.??) + original tyres/tubes= Test Third, the new hoops with tubeless tyres= Test Four, new Cockpit for poufteenth aero + weight saving(but mostly placebo for those who want to feel more elite-ish)= Test Don't think any more can be done without blowing budget and just buying a better grade bike in the first place? Waiting for episode! 😝🤔🤓

@atilaj4446

3 ай бұрын

BTW... need the weight of the old SLR01 please

Actually looking at a Team machine ALR ONE.. but 99 Bikes is not shipping them out of south Melbourne :(

What does SLR stand for?

Elite drives are an amazing bang for buck wheel. Mix em with some tpu inner tubes.

Does anybody know if there is a trick to get a fully integrated cable routing for that frame / fork or is the one and only possibility to change the fork to an slr01 version? Thx for answering that off topic…

The teammachine ALR concept would have been awesome but will be very interested to see how race ready you can get this bike

How much did the rim break bike weigh?

@CamNicholls

3 ай бұрын

Stay tuned for ‘why I bought a vintage rim brake bmc’ 😃

As a BMC SLR owner, I’d love to see what you can do with a $1500 US budget starting off with a wheel upgrade.

These are my suggestions 1. 45mm carbon wheels 2. Tubeless tires, GP5000STR 3. 38cm bars 4. Waxed Dura Ace chain 5. Ceramic BB And if the budget can stretch an OSPW.