You have brought tremendous value to cyclists with your experience and channel

@ashleysinani4207

3 жыл бұрын

This ^, I have learned so much and am really grateful for this channel making me a more aware consumer and home mechanic

@aaron___6014

3 жыл бұрын

What? Just ride your bike and replace the parts that wear or break.

@tylergarza8695

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaron___6014 ... ignorant

@aaron___6014

3 жыл бұрын

@@tylergarza8695 ignorant of what? I have to be aware of what needs maintaining and see when something fails enough to try something new. Do you put this much thought into your car your mental health your body? Being aware that looking for the endless source of potential problems with things mechanical or biological is far from ignorant, accepting it and living your life instead is what I'm suggesting. Getting sucked into this mindset is ignorant.

Looking forward to the peak torque disc brakes 👍

@basedgodstrugglin

3 жыл бұрын

Peak Stop brakes

@simedinson984

3 жыл бұрын

@@basedgodstrugglin still a torque aint it

100% up for supporting your discs. That goes for any other products you have in mind going forward. I value your straight talking info massively 👌

I'm super excited to see how much better you can make rotors compared to what's available now. I will definitely buy a set when its available.

@PhiyackYuh

3 жыл бұрын

It will cost 150 pounds and last about 3 months and the constant of re adjusting the rotors and calipers so it doesn’t rub 😂 made in ali china 🤣

I just found your channel and I have to say, you are quite good at this. This video was great, and very informative! Thank you.

Great project, I look forward to hearing more! I have had similar issues with ice tech rotors- go out of true with the high heat on road, get bumped on the mtb. For reference, I am now using the slx/105 RT70 rotors with zero issues. Seems to behave like a six bolt, just pinned onto the centerlock spider instead of using bolts.

Great explanation again, making it understandable for everyone! My new bike frame arrives late August, will put winspace hyper wheels on them, so I will need new disc brakes also... Hoping to see yours available by then!

I’m down to see a set. Plus loved the tech knowledge offered in the video. Keep in coming.

This video answered all my questions about disc brakes. And i learned a lot more than i asked for. Cheers brother! Im shifting to disc brakes this month as sponsors are now supplying us disc brake bikes, and im already having nightmares on how to maintain them, let alone the cost

@jerryc.5210

Жыл бұрын

1.5 years ago, I got a disc brake road/endurance bike ... w/ Campy 160 rotors front & rear. After 6 months, I was occasionally stopping to "re-center" the pads while on rides. After 1.5 years, the rotors are slightly "warped". If I had had to replace them at 6 months as Peak Torque reported, I'd go crazy. More importantly, I believe good rim brakes are better for road bikes because of the KISS factor, reliability, and durability. I've had Campy Record rim brakes, so I can't comment on Shimano quality. I bought my first C-Record bike in 1962. I NEVER had any problems over the last 30 years/6k miles per year with good rim brakes. They stopped as well as my current discs, pads lasted longer than disc pads, and close to zero maintenance. Disc brakes = 1) re-centering, 2) quicker wear, 3) more parts, 4) more cost, 5) warping, 6) special tools, 7) hydraulics & bleeding. For ROAD, I consider discs a solution to a problem that never existed. Gravel is a different application though, and I'm not talking about MTBs.

@KILLTHEREDDITOR

4 ай бұрын

Sanaol may sponsor

Yeah mate I’ll be down to have a pair, good stuff👍

This seems very interesting, looking forward to seeing the progress!

It would be awesome to also try Swissstop after the Campy and do a comparison

@lechprotean

3 жыл бұрын

I'd be happy to chip in via patreon paypal or some such so @peak torque can test them

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

@@lechprotean great idea.

@evanm.2300

3 ай бұрын

​@PeakTorque I jyst saw this vid 3 yrs late, what happened to the rotors?

I’d be interested in a set - great work, loving the channel 👊

Thank you! For years I have held the opinion that the rotor offerings were inadequate. Great video!!

I’ve been saying for a while now (as a non engineer) that I think the ice tech isn’t the best. That’s from using them for years and experiencing the ‘warping’, the ticking etc and I could only put it down to the aluminium sandwich construction. Thanks so much for doing the video. You’ll have an order from me 100%.

Very interesting topic and project. I was looking into Campagnolo rotors too and I'm looking forward to hear your impressions. Can't wait for the PT rotors ;)

Happy to provide input from my experience on Campy rotors over the 2-3 yrs I have on my All Roadie, along with the full steel Magura Storm rotors I have on my HT. Haven't had any overheating issues on either including some very long descents (one fully loaded bike packing in the Angeles, California and Lake Mountain, Aus). I'm a nervous decender so brake often but let them off so I don't cook the brakes. I've cooked rim brakes in the past (koolstop salmons) but feel more confident with discs.

I'd be super interested in this project. Can't offer any expertise, but would definitely buy one

Very excited to follow that project 👍🏻 Went back to my “old” rim brake bike after being on discs for a while - not just because of being annoyed by the brakes, but it sure is nice to have one thing less that needs fine-tuning all the time

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

Same.

@SprayIgniteBoom

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly...part of why I ride is a ‘simple’ mechanical interface, peaceful rides (I prefer quite hubs), and a ‘back 2 basics’ experience...discs, 2 much electrical equipment etc detracts from that~

@timocallaghan4408

3 жыл бұрын

@@SprayIgniteBoom I had this realisation recently while considering DI2.. I already get annoyed with keeping the head unit charged and pairing sensors, why add another battery etc to the list!

@durianriders

3 жыл бұрын

"You just didn't set the discs up properly"

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

@@durianriders 😂

Good analysis. I use SLX RT-70 centerlock rotors on MTB (160 and 180mm). Reasonably priced and never had an issue. Cheers and keep up the excellent content.

@TheNotoriousMIC

2 жыл бұрын

Roadies a dragging tiny rotors with tiny little callipers down mountain descent nonstop for miles.

Great vid, always been suspicious of the amount of material on these rotors to disapate the heat. We already know carbon rim brakes exceed 200C so having a much smaller disc makes the disappation of heat even harder. Interesting to see what you come up with. 👍

Interested to see what product you come up with - could be interested! 👍🏼

Awesome project! I’m almost sad I don’t have any disc brake bikes now^^

I'll be keeping an eye out for updates on your rotors. Your design priorities match my riding/functionality priorities.

A pleasant surprise you have anything Campagnolo on your bike. Before you know, you'll turn 40 and have a full super record gruppo installed :-)

I would buy your rotors right away when they come up for sale

@aaron___6014

3 жыл бұрын

Just because some guy on youtube burns his rotors up in the super steep mountains of asia doesn't mean yours will fail too.

@donoldduckben

3 жыл бұрын

Can't say for the other guy but I live on the hilly bits of hong kong island, from what I can tell it's where peak torque is based too so yea I'll definitely be snatching up a few rotors from him the second they go up for sale

Very cool (no pun intended!) and informative video. I'm now doing a thorough check of my Dura Ace rotors! Interested to see the final design of your own rotors and might be interested in giving them a try!

Carbon ceramic brakes! If you survive the first hairpin, you'll get great braking on the second! 😂😂😂

@coreygolphenee9633

3 жыл бұрын

No you just warm up snaking back and forth with your brakes pulled

Don't even have disc brakes but instantly got reeled in this very informative piece.

Fascinated to see what you come up with versus what Shimano has in the pipeline with Dura-Ace 9200 brakes (and the context of Chris Froome's comments on disc brakes)

@ThePaulKat

3 жыл бұрын

Considering their cranks have been failing for years due to poor design and they have not attempted to rectify the issue, they will probably not have any improvements in the pipeline.

if your just going to laser cut solid piece - maybe inconel or hastelloy would be a good choice if you can get some offcuts? Really like your engineering knowledge - exceptional for such a young fella! Just remember to try your prototype on the rear wheel first before trying it on the front.

Interesting project, looking forward to findings. I have brand new 105 disc set 6 bolt one piece style and at 900 miles I've been extremely pleased with performance and not one complaint, I clean them every other ride and the wheels have not been off the bike since new or in and out of the car so bumping them hasn't happened. I am also very aware of braking technique to shed heat, never ride the brakes, I do 3-5 seconds at the most breaking at any given time, on fast DH hard break let off wait hard brake let off style.

Yeah i'm running the Ice-tech rotors atm, I did wonder how long they will last with only a thin sliver of steel each side... Do you run resin or sintered metal pads to get this level of wear?

You're spot on. I've moved back to rim, fed up with them. Would love some PT disc though!

I would defo try out your rotors. Keep us updated.

Haha the expression at @2:37...Me every time I'm getting dropped on a climb and I blame it on the brakes rubbing. I'm totally interested in the project.

Interesting. 6 months life for rotors is crazy! My bike came with RT99 rotors which I replaced at approx 17500 miles, or about 3 set of pads. I replaced them with R8000, and your video prompted me to check them - the rear is at 1.5mm after approx 6700 miles, so the lifespan has been worse! The Campag ones look better value so I will probably go that route too. Nice watch by the way, I have one of those myself!

Interesting sounding project with your own design rotors. Would certainly be interested to try a set out!

@EroticBurrito

3 жыл бұрын

+1

That potential delamination issue is actually kind of terrifying. Will definitely be taking a look at my Ultegra rotors later today. Have absolutely experienced that same thing with the post-application rub following a short, sharp descent. They probably already have 7000+ km on them at this point.

Hi, great video! I’ve always thought the rotors are mounted backwards. Note the material connecting the spline to brake surface is forward swept, under braking loads this would put it in compression, rolling the flexure. If it was reversed it would be in tension. Nimonic steel? C263/Inconel might be worth considering.

I ride 800+ miles per month and my Shimano rotors still have tons of life left. However, they do tend to warp slightly but nothing I can't fix in a couple of minutes.

@nelsonsilva6842

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah thisbguy is full of BS on his videos. Now must be trying to start a business on a market full of the stuff for any given part. I unsubscribed.

@mihugong3153

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Todd, which model of rotors are you using?

@tccycling

3 жыл бұрын

@@mihugong3153 I've used both the Dura-Ace SM-RT900 and the Ultegra SM-RT800 rotors. Both work great and I've had no wear issues using both of them for thousands of miles.

@mihugong3153

3 жыл бұрын

@@tccycling Cool, thanks for the info. I have XTRs on the way for my road bike, I guess I will try my luck :)

@HooxNZ

3 жыл бұрын

I ride and commute in only hills, I got 10 months out of my pads and rotors, that said I should have done them after prob 8 or 9

thanks for the info,still on rim brakes myself for road. I shall watch with interest. running Deore discs on my 29er mtb,seem to be ok with 2 or 3 rides a week.

Great idea, hopefully the tarnished inside/outside edges can still dispel the heat.

It would be interesting to see if there is a composite material that could be used as a thermal barrier at the hub interface or elsewhere in the spider, like phenolic spacers used on intake manifolds

£200 a year on discs? Wow, just wow. I'll stick to Campag Super Record and Record rim callipers (which are a bargain compared to the SR with just a 15g weight penalty). Though I suppose to be fair I should discount the cost of replacing the rims eventually! Really enjoy your content. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

Impressive amount of comments here on disc brake performance or lack there of! I've not personally experienced any delam issues with any of my disc brake bikes other than annoying rubbing after long descents. I would be interested in trying your new steel rotors. I saw a few comments about the XTR on the road as well, from reading the Shimano technical manual they do not recommend using MTB rotors on road bikes.

I like your scientific approach 🤙 Thanks mate 🙏

I'd buy some, but i think most people would be upset when their disks had rust on them. I'd be willing to guess that a surprising percentage of even the most expensive road bikes only get used a few times a year. I also think this push to make disk brake bikes as light as rim brake bikes so they can stop making rim brake bikes forces them to make rotors that don't have the mass they need to work right.

@KasimirBlanco

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed, rust would be a no go for me and I'd also like to see more road bike (centerlock) discs w/ thicker friction ring (i.e. >=2.0mm) for more mechanical and thermal stability.

Had to subscribe for Peak Torque disc brake. Count me in!

I think the early Lotus Elises had the option for aluminium /silicon carbide rotors. They also had special pads that transferred material to the disks to reduce wear. (This might have been too reduce unsprung weight rather than for stopping power)

What are the advantages of bleaching your hair? Marginal gains? I would like an engineering analysis on this subject, that would be really cool

@Bellerophon17

3 жыл бұрын

Brighter colour reflects more light than it absorbs, effectively functioning as a solar sail. If Pogacar had frosted tips he'd be breaking the 1000W FTP barrier

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

Modelling career

Forgot to mention: only organic pads used.

@thomasjousse2427

3 жыл бұрын

Do you have any opinion on organic vs sintered pads?

@ncliffor

3 жыл бұрын

stock shimano?

@vladandrei2069

3 жыл бұрын

No fins???

@mdbourne

3 жыл бұрын

Any update on how you like the Campy rotors? I need new rotors and am thinking to try the campy as well, if you still recommend them. And how are the ones you are designing are going?

Thanks for this video mate, just in the nick of time as I was going to upgrade to some dura ace icetechs

My son recently had an Ultegra rotor fail after about 6 months use. The failure in his case was caused by the aluminium "cooling fins" becoming distorted meaning they rubbed on either side of the caliper. The stainless part was less affected. A complaint to the retsiler said was responded to with "no warranty claim as you were "dragging your brakes"". My son has excrllent descrnding skills snd mskes much less use of his brakes than i do (i am a BC qualified coach so i know how to observe these things...until he gets out of site!). I will be definitely switching back to full steel rotors after watching this. Thank you.

Thanks for your nice explanation, now I know why my 105 rotors rub/make an annoying noice when I ride in the rain or during descends. A couple of bike shops told me that they advice everyone to go with the “SwissStop Catalyst” rotors. Yes they are heavier but they don’t have the warping issue & last way longer

@darekm.7769

2 жыл бұрын

I use catalyst rotors on my gravel bike... They last long, nearly 10000km in them and still some life left... However on long descends they undergo the same issue when heat starts to build up and they rub...then come back to place when cool down...

Great engineer mindset! When its not in the market, create it!

I've just bought new wheels. I'm having to go centerlock from 6 bolt. And I'm looking for rotors. So please keep me informed. Big thanks!

I love this video. I have a pair of icetech rotors and I have exactly the same problem. During a ride they can start and stop rubbing on the calipers multiple times. I have also suspected that the cause of the issue has its core with the sandwich construction.

Great video! What do you think about using a ceramic fiber paper between the rotor and the spider? They have great thermal properties and would break the thermal bridge

Highly interesting topic. I was wondering how you finance this project and what you calculate for the overall project costs for a set of brake discs? I like the relatively short length of your videos compared to the high level of lessons identified / overall value. Keep up the good work and pedal hard!

I agree they do go out of true very easily. I've put cheap stainless 6 bolt rotors on my MTB now, very light like than XTR and they last much longer. You have to connect up a thermal imaging device to see the heat pathway but I would be thinking that the heat would be transferred to the spokes somewhat. I use alloy adapters from 6 bolt to Centrelock.

I'd be 100% interested in buying a set of rotors. Currently looking for something for my main/spare set of wheels.

I'd be interested in a pair. I am interested in their application to touring bikes that coming down long descents fully packed out should get quite hot. I suggest you try and make a kickstarter for it since it seems very many people would like a pair.

Very cool project, making your own rotors, looking forward to the results. Very interesting topic with the materials and everything. However I haven't heard anything about the friction factor. I am not an engineer or something, but when thinking of a new material shouldn't we take into consideration its 'compatibility' with the standard brake pads in terms of friction and braking? I mean the first criteria of judging a brake part is the stopping power, right?

Interesting that you mention about the specs as when I bought my gravel wheels at Easter my existing SRAM rotors didn't mount correctly on the Bitex hubs. And research showed me this. Personally I'll avoid CentreLock next time, and stick with 6-bolt - far cheaper and more availability plus a 'known' standard.

Can't wait to see those discs of yours op.

I would like to know what you think about the fuids on the brakes too. Why Shimano uses mineral oil and Sram go with Dot fluid. This makes difference in the thermal side of things too? Can I use a Shimano rotor (designed to work with mineral fluid driven piston) with a Sram caliper and vice versa? This disc brake for road bikes is a hot topic now and you are the best to address the subject

Interested, I've a xcr build coming up and the bike is going to Bespoke show in October so that will be really cool.

In my experience (25+ years bicycle mechanic) the pad clearance issue in at least 50% of problematic cases comes from "overfilled" disc brakes. Most common directly from the bike factories. Great explanations that need more spreading to customers (which I will do at work). Keep on the good work! Greets to the 5 year old 😎

@_shaqz_

2 жыл бұрын

Hi. What do you mean with "overfilled" brakes? I think that psitons often don't fully retract because of overbleeding of the system

I’d be up for trying your Rotors. First time I ever ran road discs was in Mallorca and had no problems on the longer descents. Recently bought a ultra equipped bike and on my local hills, maximum of 2 mins descending time I ended up with squeaks and rubs after any heavy breaking. So yeah something that wouldn’t do that would be great.

I’ve been running disc brakes on mountain bikes for twenty years. I have used icetech rotors and solid steel rotors. I can’t say I can tell the difference in braking but I do find the all steel variety seem to bend more easily than floating types. They all wear at a similar rate though. I think when a rotor gets to be 1.5 thick from wear, combined with wear of the pads and the relatively low fluid volume leads to a lever getting closer to the bar than I like. I’ve had that issue with many brakes too. Question though. Compared with rim brakes how does the wear of disc rotors and pads compare with worn rims and rim pads? When I was racing off road with rim brakes I was replacing pads a dozen times a year, cable and housing was replaced monthly and I’d chew through about four rims a season. Ceramic rims really helped with wear but disc brakes were even better. I raced road too but rim wear was a lot slower.

Great stuff, as usual You got any recommendations on how to fix that squealing sound you've shown in your descending-clip?

Great video, definitely interested in a pair

Good idea to build proper discs. I often have problems with bended discs. I tried Shimano and Sram. Both have the same issues with rubbing.

Martensitic stainless may also be used. Used in knifes and cutting tools in food industry etc. Same as ferritic stainless, but with a slightly higher carbon content to get the hardenability; hardness is very high, about 700 HV.

I’d buy a pair, sounds like a good project to support.

I have been using AFS 03 rotors for a few months now. One thing I noticed is that the rotor feels soft when installed with some third-party internal spline lockring. It appears that because these rotor were designed for AFS, their crown face area is slightly larger than the lockring of the usual size. ZIPP's 160mm lockring solves that problem (ZIPP has two sizes of lockrings, but both uses external spline).

Wish I had seen this video a couple of days ago before I purchased a pair of the same Shimano rotors...which is probably why this video appeared in my feed.

17-4 H900 is a pretty hard stainless steel that's available in plate form. You can try making discs out of that if you want to stick with stainless, otherwise a harder alloy steel would work too.

Thanks Peak Torque very interesting. I was wondering if you think there is also a potential problem of your carbon spokes on your Hyper wheels heating up. Do you this could potentially melt the glue?

looking forward to your disc design Peak!

I've often thought about whether or not we could get grey iron rotors instead of Stainless Steel. They would need a Zinc Flake coating, of course, to keep them from rusting. My single piece MTB rotors are always warped and I've always wondered if there's just too much residual stress in the stainless steel for these thin brake rotors.

Very interesting video, particularly with respect to heat dissipation. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on rim vs disc brakes for a tandem where there's obviously going to be more heat generated when slowing/stopping.

@billeterk

Жыл бұрын

Drum brakes?

Great shot of the steel laminate separating from the aluminum core. Mid-vid PT referenced 250 degree temps at the center-lock/hub interface. Does this temp reflect real world conditions?

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

Not sure yet. I've got a thermal camera for the next video.

Looking forward for your design

On further thought, the rotors need to be hard enough to resist the abrasion of the pads, but also have good thermal conductivity. Unfortunately these are almost mutually exclusive, however, hard coat anodised aluminium rotors could be the answer. Not sure if you would use a standard type 6061 aluminium or a hardened 7075 material. The issue here is what the best pad material would be. Good luck, you have generated a lot of interest here

Thanks for this, good info and video. What Campy rotors did you fit? I'm looking at 160mm center lock rotors to replace mine. I would also be interested in your own rotors too.

Which kind of break pads do you prefer? Organic or Steel?

I'm curious about your take on this topic in MTB brakes. Larger rotors lead to different thermal paths I'd think, and some thicker models (2.3mm at the max) for systems like TRP and Magura. I assume lots of hubs are still getting cooked despite.

I'd love a set for my roadbike. For Mountainbikes the XT icetec discs are pretty decent though. I've had problems with the full steel 203 mm slx 6-bolt discs overheating. Sure the XT ones mostly only last around 5-6 months, but the performance difference is worth it imo

Would love to see a disc brake design that makes it about performance and QoL and not about weight weenies. I've been looking around to try and find a solution for my prospective new disc brake bike since I've heard of so many issues with the current rotor offerings from the big three and this seems like the solution that I'm really looking for.

@mikesmathers5752

3 жыл бұрын

Check out Hope.

What simulation software are you using? What are you defining your boundary conditions regarding temperature? I’d be interested to see how the heat conducts through steel rather than through dissimilar metals

Great vid! I’d try your discs for sure!

Looking forward to see your design. Could be interested. 👍 You must have been riding your bike pretty hard. I have never seen delaminated rotor before 😳 I guess you have had some big issus with rim brakes as well?

I'd be very interested too!

this didn't age well. looks like you went back to the shimano rotors and are still complaining about them

They’re not floating - floating rotors are where the rotor can move on the spider. Hope rotors are floating for example.

@PeakTorque

3 жыл бұрын

These rotors definitely move on the spider... intended or not! Those rivets are not a perfect lockded 6dof fastener.

@froggy0162

3 жыл бұрын

@@PeakTorque Sure, but that’s not intentional I suspect. Hope rotors have the relatively larger circular attachment, same as motorcycle and car floating rotors - designed to assist in even pad contact and more consistent bite points across varying temperatures. The Shimano rotors are technically two piece fixed. Floating means they’re designed to move to accommodate variable pad contact situations.

@richde

3 жыл бұрын

Someone not named Froggy doesn't know what a floating rotor is, or that the flex of a thin sheet of metal isn't "float."

He demonstrated the nagging effect of the discs wobbling when hot + gave solid reasoning what to his mind causes this problem 👍🏻

might be interested in the disc rotors when I get a disc brake bike. It'll probably be a few years though. I still ride an alloy frame with a mechanical groupset and rim brakes on alloy rims.

Definitely interested in your rotors mate