Read through most of the comments - there's a few things not covered in the video that I want to clear up: You still have to charge to do charge moves in modern (which doesn't make it too useful in this case) The auto hitconfirms don't exist for every autocombo, and only some of them are useful. The Luke example is easily the best one in the demo. 2nd best would probably be Ryu's medium auto combo which lets you auto hitconfirm ex palm into level 2 super. The rest in the demo aren't useful imo. The option select is doable with classic controls, just in a different way using negative edge, wouldn't surprise me if other modern exclusive tech developed though. Capcom said they are allowing Modern Controls for CPT, so I doubt there will be a ban lol. Dynamic controls are banned though. Pretty sure 10% of these comments are from people not actually watching the video and just based off the title alone lol... so if you are going to comment please at least watch the video omg. I made this mostly so you guys can learn how to fight players using modern controls (exploit lack of moves, etc.) or learn how to use, not trying to suggest modern controls will magically make bad players into pros and it's the death of street fighter as we know it lol. There is so much more depth / dimensions to what makes a top player besides the control scheme they use. Still unsure if modern controls should be strong but we shall see I suppose

@LEWfromdaHOU

Жыл бұрын

The concept of modern controls still works the same way with all of the characters and their auto combo into supers. Regardless, you're still handicapped on modern and there's no way pro players will switch over to it from classic.

@ultraman498

Жыл бұрын

Why are you shilling this so hard?

@alter9933

Жыл бұрын

@@ultraman498 Because it's his personal opinion and his right to speak it here. Any more dumb questions you want to "shill" out?

@BreadBeardFGC

Жыл бұрын

My only concern is that there's ever even a chance of modern controls being preferable to classic in a competitive sense. Modern actively disengages from aspects that make fighting games fighting games and it would depress me to see that become a contender for "the way to play"

@MrRubix01

Жыл бұрын

@@BreadBeardFGC Bro you have nothing to worry about. Difficult execution isn't going away. Some pros may pick up modern but I guarantee you most wont. Also stating modern actively disengages from aspects of fighting games is definitely an overreaction. Stop dooming and start (sonic) booming..... sorry that was a dumb joke

People are talking a lot about the 1 button supers, but I really feel like it's the auto hit confirms that are the bigger problem. You never drop your combo and you never do an unsafe move on block. Like, getting perfect jab->uppercut confirms are kinda insane. I feel like modern controls would be fine if they just always did the full combo.

@lucyfleet7402

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. I mean if someone is mashing into my block, I would expect it to be ending with something punishable to literally punish a mindless mashing player. Even if the first button is safe and they could choose to stop and reset, it just repeating button 1 until a hit lands is wild. A lot of players playing modern will lose to fairly basic stuff anyways so it won't matter for them, I just hope it won't be good enough to change the tournament scene too severely

@chaselewis5372

Жыл бұрын

Not sure why my previous comment got removed for spreading false info talking about how modern controls adapt their combos to be more optimal on punish counter automatically. Here's the video from animeilluminati showing an example of it. Same example I mentioned. st. LK punish counter will do EX donkey on punish counter and hurricane on normal hit. kzread.info/dash/bejne/gJutpdypftLge84.html

@keithsimpson2685

Жыл бұрын

@@chaselewis5372 That just seems like the game playing for you and shouldn't be allowed in tournaments.

@zeywop

Жыл бұрын

@@chaselewis5372 that video has been shown to be inaccurate. numerous people have tested it and none have been able to replicate what happened in that video

@binho2224

Жыл бұрын

@@zeywop yep, you are right! At least from my experience with the demo, it does not change the follow up move based on hit. Regardless it always goes for the same combo.

FYI, modern autocombos generally DO comeout on block, like Luke's mp autocombo. He blows meter and does a punishable move if you don't confirm. I'm not sure why his light punch one doesn't come out on block, but that's not a big deal, since like you said, it's easy to confirm on classic controls, too. But, this seems to be the exception, not the rule. I see people below who think autocombos autoconfirm, but they don't.

@ka7al958

Жыл бұрын

It's not possible to confirm a single cr.lp like the auto combo allows. It just doesn't make sense. Even if his cr.lp is minus so he's losing his turn it's still a big deal.

@watchmesquatch

Жыл бұрын

You're wrong, bud. It does auto confirm off lows.

@dreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Жыл бұрын

woah.. pokchop n flatscreen. ..

damn i was hoping that modern controls would be like an easy mode where you dont get everything but its easier to play, and the good ol keypad input stick n buttons would still be optimal, idk how to feel about this

@Diaphone

Жыл бұрын

Yea… I’m still not sure how I feel about this. I think it’s cool for newcomers, but also as a competitive player I’d hate to be forced to use modern controls. I doubt that will be the case though, and I think 90%+ of pros will be using classic at least to start with. I’m still gonna train modern on the side though just in case

@binho2224

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I'm a newcomer and I'm having fun with modern controls playing teh Demo, but it does take a lot of execution away, which has been a part of the legacy of fighting games. Some moves are balanced around this. But on the other hand, it removes the gap from people like me that had always struggled with motion inputs during combos, especially the supers. You still need great fundamentals and be good at reading and mind games in general. Another good aspect, imo, is that it makes easier to transition from learning one character to another, as the controls are now unified this way. And motivates me to use different archetypes that I never felt comfortable with, like grapplers and charge characters. I was afraid Modern Controls would be very limiting, but I was surprised by the amount of freedom and control you still have in doing many different stuff.

@opssoldier3316

Жыл бұрын

@@Diaphone my experience with DNF duel makes me dislike this scheme as a whole. I too would have preferred it just be a way people get into the game and then eventually learn classic, but it’s looking like some characters it won’t really matter all that much!

@celuiquipeut6527

Жыл бұрын

And that is exactly my problem with that control scheme. Its a dumbing down. And its not good.

@mein4081

Жыл бұрын

@@celuiquipeut6527 did you know not everyone has an arcade stick and has been playing for years? New players are gonna look at classic and modern and they'll pick modern because its not cancerous on a controller.

I've been playing a lot of GBFV since GGST servers have been sucking. I wasn't critical of one button specials, but I take it all back. That shit is wild. You can't do anything fake if you have an invincible reversal. It really doesnt take long to train your brain to do the manual input for combos when you want dmg and the special button for instant stuff.

@PassionWagonYT

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. You can easily separate them as two moves in your head. I thought the damage nerf would be across the board, now I hear the user has the CHOICE of which input to use for the special even when already in Modern mode. This is whack.

@nekoraver6179

Жыл бұрын

see you understand! People want to do fake stuff or make poor choices and expect to be saved cause the optimal punishes are execution heavy. People are scared and gaslighting like a boss when all these long time FGC players know there are combo's that only classic can do cause they get specials with 4 different strengths where as modern only gets 2.

@Vexal50

Жыл бұрын

don't forget being able to instantly use charge moves, as those moves are traditionally balanced around the fact that you tend to be a sitting duck. It's going to be real interesting to see how strong charge characters are in this game

@Tristan_jpg

Жыл бұрын

@@nekoraver6179 I think you misunderstood the issue here. Fake stuff and poor choices are two very separate things. Most if not all decent players will go for « fake stuff » from time to time. It’s all about 1) keeping your opponent on their toes and forcing them to think 2) checking their knowledge about the match-up and potentially abusing something they are not aware of 3) mixing it up, reseting pressure and probably much more than I don’t know about. This has nothing to do with execution. The thing about modern control is that it has so many option selects, players will be able to automatically beat out some options without having to do anything, leading to simplified decision making for both players (just like the neutral jump punish during fireball spam shown in the video) There’s also the fact that you’ll be able to react much faster (even a few frames is a big deal) with special moves, it’s gonna make some stuff weaker, some stuff stronger. People will learn, people will adapt, but it’s a potentially big change, so it’s understandable that some are weary of the impact it is going to have.

@Diaphone

Жыл бұрын

Yea if I didn’t play Gbvs I wouldn’t understand how good this is. We all thought ez inputs were bad but then kazunoko was first to make master rank only using easy inputs lol

I played the second beta and from what I can recall people that played on Modern controls fell into one of these two categories: they had very good fundamentals or they were actually trying the game for the first time. It seems that it will be quite strong at the start, but the rest relies on the individual player's abilities so the veterans might be able to catch up on it.

@ZandoZone

Жыл бұрын

I’m legit new to SF because I never wanted to learn 6 buttons but SF 6 made me a fan I’m here for the long run and one of my homies plays it faithfully anyways I was on the beta playing modern controls and loved it but now I’m practicing the classic controls because I wanna get good with them and I gotta say definitely a great fighting game and I see why there is so much love for it

@phantasosxgames8488

Жыл бұрын

@@ZandoZone I know I am late on this conversation...but it's good that you are learning Modern AND Classic. Overall , Modern and Classic are not inherenly better or bad , it really depends on the character. Just like the video showed , Luke looses basically nothing with Modern Control , but I dare say the same wouldn't be true for the likes of Kimberly or Juri.

@Dresfvae

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@phantasosxgames8488that’s what the problem I’ve been saying. I don’t hate modern at all but there are some characters who play so differently because of modern controls. Gief becomes more of a threat with modern than classic

@risen1726

Жыл бұрын

Man as a low-end player who has put in hours learning and relearning characters just to not whiff this is a slap in the face Someone can pick it up and spam the specials. whats the point in classic .its dumb and going to be overtaken soon😢

@phantasosxgames8488

Жыл бұрын

@@risen1726 because Modern eats away half of the moveset. It doesn't matter if a low-end player can spam hadoukens with one button , when they face a pro , the end result is the Pro doing a Perfect K.O because they do a series of combos using normal attack. It's needs specific characters like Luke , that lost only 4 moves , to be a strong option.

Thank you for the in-depth analysis of Modern Controls Diaphone. Your videos are great and educational. Keep it up!

Very good video explaining the subject and the editing was on point. Good stuff!

Hitbox/Keyboard/Mixbox/Fightbox/Snackbox: "Psst. Hey, guys. You want 2-button supers? Here you go." Capcom: "rEeEeEeHh!!" => banning all ABCs Also Capcom: "You guys want 1-button supers?"

@thesaltmerchant4564

Жыл бұрын

Difference is Capcom made them available to everyone

@Midori_Hoshi

Жыл бұрын

You joke, but 1 button supers are already possible through the custom controller edit menu.

@romzen

Жыл бұрын

@@thesaltmerchant4564 1. Two different things are different. Amazing you figured that out. 2. Hitbox or other ABCs are available to everyone as well. Use any keyboard for the same effect. 3. Making 1-button supers/dps available to everyone does not explain why you would want 2-button supers/dps banned.

@watchmesquatch

Жыл бұрын

​@@thesaltmerchant4564 Hitbox is avaliable to everyone. They have a website and everything. If you're gonna cry, make it make sense.

@Xaintrix

Жыл бұрын

“Available to everyone” - not when you slap a price on it. Then it’s P2W.

Really wondering how Zangief is going to fit into all this. I didn't realize you could use manual inputs in modern and still get 100% damage. That's wild.

Modern maynot have every more or max damage move.... but it's faster and SUPER consistent. Why risk a move for slight more damage, when modern has no risk and can just spam it over and over

@Debiruman1666

Жыл бұрын

At a certain level, you threre's nothing you can spam "over and over", SF is about mind games, set-ups etc, and for good/very good players, being optimal is the name of the game, you have 0 reason to sacrifice full damage potential and optimal combo routes for each situation just for a bit of ease of execution, which isn't even a concern at that level of play, seasoned players all have their execution on point... being gimmicky/flowcharting may get you out the lower ranks, but you won't go that far... actually, I can't remember having played online against anyone using classic... which may pretty much mean that it's not that viable...

I think a better way to handle modern controls would be to simplify some of the motion inputs. The new Idol Showdown removes DP for double crouch maybe doing things like this will make the game more approachable. Obviously with just a bit of practice you can DP with ease but for some new players it might help them along.

@eggsandwich5278

Жыл бұрын

I don't know why tf they didn't do this. I'm a new player and honestly have no issue with the original controls apart from the god awful directional inputs. Can't see why it can't be simpler like MKX where its just left right, down right, down back etc as opposed to including the diagonal. Feel like it forces use of the analogue which I'm so bad with!

@dylanlerian5960

Жыл бұрын

@@eggsandwich5278 Nearly everyone playing on a controller play with the d-pad and not the analogue. Just go from a button to another by rolling your thumb it ain't that hard. You can even slide it if you prefer.

@charliebaker1427

Жыл бұрын

​@dylanlerian5960 thats definitely not true maybe more experienced players might but most try to use analog sticks on controller

This is going to be really interesting to see with newly created characters like Jamie if they're made with modern controls in mind.

@WoWisdeadtome

Жыл бұрын

Someone said that in the beta Jamie couldn't raw drink, that's potentially a big deal with so much of his kit locked behind his drink level.

@Diaphone

Жыл бұрын

Idk how much thought capcom putting into this tbh considering how some characters are missing a lot more than others

@Godzmin

Жыл бұрын

@@Diaphone eh with having to simplify controls they had to take out something somewhere. There aren't many fighting games that use five buttons in the first place for basic attacks

@yoannsoh4009

Жыл бұрын

Just to make sure I understand correctly: Can you still use the classic controls when you chose modern ? I'm asking because of what Diaphone say at the end regarding the damage nerf only affecting on easy inputs. Can you still do motion control in modern control scheme ?

@Godzmin

Жыл бұрын

@@yoannsoh4009 yea it remaps the buttons and makes a shortcut button, but you can still enter in most to all quarter circles.

So I knew that the auto combo would come out on hit, but not coming out on block. Wiffing is perfectly understandable, but on block it should be up to the attacker to not be mashing their auto string to avoid blowing themselves up for bad offense, just 2 cents!

@Emezie

Жыл бұрын

On block, most autocombos DO come out. For some reason Luke's light autocombo is different, but his other ones DO come out on hit or block. His medium autocombo, for example, will make him do ex flash knuckle on block if you just mash it without confirming (very punishable).

@lucyfleet7402

Жыл бұрын

@@Emezie This is good to hear then. I wonder if its intended or is an oversight

@Bubblerlol

Жыл бұрын

@@Emezie thank you very much!

Thank you so much I was looking everywhere on how to use the enhanced moves

Being able to reliably toss out whatever throw I want with Geif no hoppin and the pure speed of the input amazing

Im curious, especially since you can still do specials with the classic inputs for full damage- thats never been my problem, but instant-supers sound SO GOOD. However, i cant know how drastically some characters will be affected by losing moves for a while still, and it could potentially screw muscle memory if one character is just trash without classic controls while another is basically only losing worthless moves by playing modern.

I hadn't known about the automatic hit-confirms until recently. This probably puts modern controls over the edge and into competitive territory. Also I don't like it as it removes the need for a skill that isn't execution.

@yoannsoh4009

Жыл бұрын

Yeah agreed. They are reducing THE awareness skill from previous games with that, imo. Therefore the game might become 95% about neutral and RPS. Don't know it I like it either... will see...

@watchmesquatch

Жыл бұрын

@@yoannsoh4009 Definitely gonna 1 and done every modern player. Don't care either.

@yoannsoh4009

Жыл бұрын

@@watchmesquatch unless they one and done you :-) only doing rising uppercut and supers on reaction. 😅 This game about to be funny

@Sergio-th7os

Жыл бұрын

@@watchmesquatch game isn’t even out and you already crying such a typical fgc scrub behaviour

For me GBVS and DNF are some of the only games that got this right. Everyone is using the same control scheme and there's an incentive to do manual inputs over easy inputs.

@marcbraun5342

Жыл бұрын

I thought the same. I don't like games where there's two available perspectives, for example third person and first person, all with advantages and drawbacks, the game should have one perspective and everything tailored to this one. The same goes for the control schemes and yes, GBVS combines that very good. They could leave the timer completely away when doing regular versions, their inputs aren't that hard after all...

@declspecl

Жыл бұрын

i think MBTL did a good job too especially with the later added control options

I agree that its really gonna be a per-character basis. There's gonna be someone who loses a key poke or some specific thing about a special or combo link that holds them back, but I'm especially excited to see some grapplers in Modern mode. If you can raw standing 720 without using some move to not jump, like Tager can with stylish in BB, that changes how you have to approach the matchup.

Great vid - I plan on getting back into SF and was wondering if I should stick to classic or modern. Will give Modern a shot! (I can imagine graplers like Zangief, who have to input these obnoxious circle motions just to get a command grab, will be BUFFED with modern)

I tried to play street fighter before, but I could never get the hang if the Controls but with this I think I can dive back into it

I totally agree with you, there’s another super important thing. Mental stack…

Thanks for making a positivie video on this. Many players seek to make me feel bad as a newbie becuase I can't get the consistency down for inputs.

I gave modern controls a try to see how it goes and while the combos and strings in built are cool unfortunately my muscle memory kicks in with classic controls. I honestly find it difficult to adapt and use modern controls when I know how to do the classic inputs. Almost like I'm playing a fighting game for the first time just with a difficult control scheme. I'll most likely stick with classic even if it meant I don't get those quicker frames or reactions that modern provides

I cannot wrap my head around Modern Controls. If I was just starting with fighting games sure its a great place to start, but I can do SPDs and pretzels about 90% on stick so its just odd for me trying MC at this point. Also, playing multiple characters and having to remember to hold down assist to get a certain move I normally always have access to with one button is extra mental stack. So Modern can make some things harder like two buttons for a cMP in some cases. Not to mention its not universal across characters. Sure instant 100% Supers are good, but if I see a clear punish I am going to combo as optimally as possible INTO the Super from another button unless it is a sure kill on its own. Classic is for me and if it means some online losses to a Modern user here and there its fine, I am not a tournament player anyway and can live with it.

@lucyfleet7402

Жыл бұрын

I agree with your points on one button supers. Sure, it will make a raw super punish easier but as luke right now as a street fighter newbie on classic, I can just EX qcb P into any super for a punish just fine by buffering the input in my recovery animations. So outside of whiff punishes at range I don't see it being too powerful compared

just made a video on this myself and I completely agree.

Great video man. Very good insight. It is really difficult for me to play characters I have played for almost 30 years with different control settings. I think playing some characters with modern might be good. Also having like a pocket modern Zangief or something might be interesting. Good video man.

I wasn't aware that some characters had more missing moves than others. I'm convinced that tier list will be separated into modern and classic control versions of each character. So a modern control Zangief maybe rank higher on a tier list than the classic control version of Zangief for example.

@BovineIntervention

Жыл бұрын

Just because the special button doesn't let you get every special move because of lack of inputs doesn't mean you can't do the classic input yourself. I don't think you lose much of anything besides normals

I wish they would have just made one control scheme honestly, I'm basically new to sf but I don't wanna not have my full arsenal, so I'm going classic. Also I assume that it would be easier to switch to modern than switch to classic if the meta declares a victorious control scheme.

I feel that the most "broken" thing in modern controls is that the player still has the option to do motion inputs for a lot of commands for extra damage and has one button dp's and supers (the player can react a lot faster compared with a classic controller scheme). For players with the same skill level this MC scheme might be an advantage. I hope I'm wrong about this.

@arielvega6344

Жыл бұрын

No, you're not wrong. Objectively speaking, a person whose fast on Classic Controls will be a God on Modern controls. MC was made for chumps.

@arielvega6344

Жыл бұрын

And as the old addage goes "if you can't beat them, join them." Which is where originality, and skills go to die. I've discovered so many new combos for different situations just by f ucking up the listed moves. It's sad because scrubs will lose out on that experience.

Is there a list somewhere of all the "lost moves" for modern? I'm mostly just caring about Juri and Manon.

A lot of Japanese players are already trying modern, Jiyuna has a video explaining it too.

As a new player I feel like modern controls are more welcoming for me, I tried gettin into SFV back When it launched and I remember being so overwhelmed by all the inputs. But I know that you need to practice a lot to get combos right but as a casual player I just want to Launch the games from time to time and just have fun playin the game instead of feeling lost because I dont practice that much and not having a chance to win because I dont. And it’s a easier way to play with friends that dont play the game at all to just launch it, then take modern controls and play with just a little bit of explaining

@zkaine7083

Жыл бұрын

Which is fair & completely understandable as an accessibility thing. Most people's issues (like my own) come to the competitive scene.

@Arrayment

Жыл бұрын

@@zkaine7083 I feel like the best thing for them to do would be to have separate tournaments and ranked modes for modern and classic

@zkaine7083

Жыл бұрын

@@Arrayment Exactly my thought as well.

Great video but i have a question! Might be dumb lol. But if there are now one button special moves. Does that mean all versions except ex moves are now the same? So ryu hadoken light moves as fast as heavy? Or tatsumaki always hutting once unless EX? Stuff like that.

I think it is really character dependant (normals too) but also the auto combo they do, how + are they after? What kind of Oki do they get? Each characters auto combos will differ so thats a factor to keep in mind. Yeah, the auto combos are free hitconfirm damage, but what happens after they do that?

I think it's good that there are pros and cons to the different control setups.

I'm really worried about Modern's viability tbh... Hopefully it doesn't overshadow Classic controls.

@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831

Жыл бұрын

They're on the same level of viability.

@redrenji6144

Жыл бұрын

@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 thats the problem, modern should always be objectively worse

@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831

Жыл бұрын

@@redrenji6144 BUT WHY?!

@saeno7258

Жыл бұрын

@@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831 Because they're easier and faster. The tradeoff should be that they're weaker and not as versatile. Which is intended, but as you can see, can be worked around. And that simply should not be the case.

@julio.dealmeidabranconeto5831

Жыл бұрын

@@saeno7258 oh, I get not wanting it to turn the other control obsolete, but the other guy wanted it to be objectively WORSE than Classic, which is the part that I don't get. Why can't they both be equally good?

Is there a way to do light and heavy specials? It seems you only have access to Medium and EX

I’m a street fighter fan but it didn’t come to Xbox one so I played mortal Kombat X to 11 and now I finally play street fighter 6 and I realize, playing in classic takes longer to do specials like the upper cut. So I’m going to learn modern controls.

I think to limit modern controls they should only allow it up to Gold. That way if someone who's got to Gold with with modern controls wants to go higher, they can be motivated to learn classic controls.

@Diaphone

Жыл бұрын

This is actually a pretty good idea if modern turns out to be too strong (although I’d say a higher threshold, maybe plat)

@Debiruman1666

Жыл бұрын

Modern controls are designed for mostly 2 kind of players : casual and disabled. It wouldn't be faire to limit the second ones... By the way, i'm actually Gold **** with E. Honda, and I think I've never played against anybody using Modern, either in Ranked or Casual...

I feel like every discussion on this subject going forward is going to boil down to whether they should be balanced to be an equal alternative to Classic or an inferior "Training Wheels" mode that prepares somebody for Classic. Personally I think it should be the latter, as it's going to take a lot of downsides to convince pros that the consistency of Modern isn't worth it.

@binho2224

Жыл бұрын

The ideal world would be that both modes to be perfect balanced, or very close to it. So you can choose, like you choose a character to main/play. But I agree this can be very hard and one will be favored to another.

@Lobster222

Жыл бұрын

@@binho2224 That is really not ideal. If Modern is balanced then what's the pay off for actually trying? Classic is obejctively more difficult and has more depth to it. It should be training wheels/for fun and that's it.

@Emezie

Жыл бұрын

@@Lobster222 That's what "balance" means. What you're describing is "modern controls being better," not "balanced". If you have to ask "what's the pay off for actually trying", then clearly you aren't describing a system where Classic and Modern were actually balanced. And, there already ARE positives to Classic controls. The damage and complete movelist are a big positive. Like, Classic supers do a noticeable chunk less than Modern supers.

@xXxGodThanatosxXx

Жыл бұрын

what convince is winning, if they lose a lot to modern players ,they gonna switch it

@permabanQrus

Жыл бұрын

There are already notable drawbacks like with Ryu where you're missing pretty much half your movelist, meanwhile for Luke you're missing his forward which is one of his best pokes and his roundhouse which has insane range and has a disjointed hitbox. You also don't have the opportunity for more damaging and optimized combos nor the freedom of choosing a combo route should you choose Modern controls. Meaning that something like a Ryu short > donkey kick hitconfirm from Modern could be made up in damage through combos from Classic. If they nerf it too much then it'll end up like T7's assist system where it's just so shit that it's not worth using even if it has shortcut inputs for some moves.

I was used to 6 button inputs (but im garbage at fighting games) then i tried modern controls extensively today and i was able to do stuff i never was able to do before

I assume I can choose between which type control of players I want to fight against right (just like in SFV I have the option to choose to fight opponents on Playstation or PC)?

@mr.gamingz

Жыл бұрын

this would be better.. i dont want to play against people with modern, its way to overtuned and strong

I suspect it will largely be based on how the community takes it and how many new players stick around. The FGC and SF communities are pretty strong and I wouldn't be surprised if modern players dont end up with a ton of resources to learn the game. I'm sure there'll be some out there but I would be surprised if SF6 brings in more new players to the community than old ones I dont have an issue with them as long as they dont change fundamentals, I have friends who physically struggle with motion inputs so I'm glad its accessible

Good points & concise vid. Lots of comments. I'm used to classic games & inputs, but some motions like a 720 or HCBx2 can still be a pain for me. Interesting that Granblue & now SF has easy input as an option. Nice vid.

The super button with classic controls would be pretty neat, I like being able to pick light/medium/heavy kick/punch with classic but I'm just too shit to input any super attacks

How do you choose the strengths of your specials? Like I play Guile. Would I just have to give up on being able to do a fast vs slow sonic boom? That sounds nearly unplayable

@soccerthepkmnmaster

Жыл бұрын

You can still do motion input for some of your special. Guile default to light boom if you use the SP button, but if you charge back then forward with the H attack button, you can get the fast boom (and it would not suffer the 20% damage penalty). Same with Blade and Flash Kick. Not every special can be done with motion input in modern though. Ryu's Tatsu and High Blade Kick overlaps with the motion input of Fireball and Hashogeki, so you can only do the SP and OD version for those two kick specials. Meaning Ryu is stuck with Medium and OD version of Tatsu and High Blade Kick with Modern control.

The best part of modern controls as a new player, is that I don’t have to worry so much about combos and execution and I can focus on learning footsies and fundamentals first instead.

You potentially have to play in a totally different way against players with modern control. Basically learn how to abuse the enemies autocombos, etc.. It's not well designed in my opinion

@MegaDarkness5000

Жыл бұрын

It's going to be easy to predict a modern control player due to having less attacks and has a classic control player I will enjoy that fact.

@EliosMoonElios

Жыл бұрын

Capcom design Modern Control to be: *A Easy Way To Learn For New Players, Not To Be Equal To Classic Control.* Without those limitation Modern Control is literally Cheating.

good content thanks

Good job.

@gloss2826

Жыл бұрын

Sonic Soldier reporting for duty sir

If modern controls end up being superior to classic controls, the game is competitively finished. Watching tournaments where there's a lot of focus on reacting with one button DPs to things constantly, and with the neutral being simplified because of lack of buttons, would make for a pretty boring and uninspiring experience. I can only imagine how utterly boring GG or MVC would play like if their version of Modern controls had been superior to the normal scheme... I don't believe Capcom would let it reach that state - they would either nerf the Modern controls or ban them from their own tournaments if it comes to it. But let's see. It's a bit preemptive to call it either way.

@watchmesquatch

Жыл бұрын

They don't give a damn about the tournaments. They only want as many people to buy their game as possible, which means attracting noobs, which then means empowering those noobs so they commit to the purchase.

@StylishGaz

Жыл бұрын

@@watchmesquatch You'd be surprised how important a pro scene is in maintaining interest in a game. There's a reason everyone wants their game to be an ESport

@Lobster222

Жыл бұрын

@@watchmesquatch But noobs will buy your game whether Modern controls are allowed in tournaments or not, though. On the other hand, having a strong competitive scene is like 24/7 hours marketing and interest in your game. There's a reason they're sinking 2 mil into the prize pool this year.

@syahidirhassan4846

Жыл бұрын

Dunno, i didn't watch the tourney for how they input their move... But for their decision making... That's the clutch I'm looking for... So it doesn't matter if the control is modern or classic... Bcoz decision making is not on thr controller sidr but on the individual... So what if u use classic but if u made terrible choice the match won't be enjoyable

@a_brodo3158

Жыл бұрын

@@syahidirhassan4846 the control scheme dumbs down their decision making though

I feel like modern is going to create an easy transition for player who come from games like Granblue

That thumbnail amazing.

Do we have a full list of missing moves or just the two from the demo?

In my experience Modern control luke fits me like a glove lol. Despite losing a few moves just doing his combos feels soo good. And It's been a while since I played a street fighter game

@Itslewcario

Жыл бұрын

Same man. Even Ryu. I’m consistently hitting 40-60% hit combos. It all comes down to fundamentals and baiting if you go modern. Good trade off if you ask me

I don't like that they don't really have a strong downside, it's pretty much with some chars alot better to pick modern over classic and that shouldn't be like that with any char

@CrystalMang0

Жыл бұрын

You are very WRONG. Classic is the stronger controls. Modern Controls has weaknesses like less normals, damage, combos, while benefiting from easier inputs like easier dps and easier faster supers.

@vbby

Жыл бұрын

​@@CrystalMang0 your statement makes no sense

@TypicalBlakk

Жыл бұрын

@@CrystalMang0 have you heard of motion?

@R_C32

Жыл бұрын

@@CrystalMang0 my guy over here spreading misinformation. If you do the motion input, you don’t lose out on damage. The debate is losing 3 normals for frame 1 reversal supers (which does limit combo routes depending if your character uses the 3 missing normals for certain combo routes), the less damage debate has been long debunked, atleast for the specials you can manually input. For Luke, that’s everything cept 236K. The AI auto hit confirming depending on the situation is also pretty disgusting too, as mentioned in the video.

@FlightX101

Жыл бұрын

@@R_C32 being able to casually super ,anti air, or EX on reaction is HUGE and worth whatever loss there currently is. just ma​ @xzMango5 Being able to casually super ,anti air, or EX on reaction is HUGE and worth whatever. Whoever is winning is simply going to sit there with meter and let you approach lol

What characters do you suggest to use with modern control?

This is actually wild 😮

I'm still bummed that modern controls are most likely going to replace classic controls. I'm mediocre at fighting games but part of the fun of fighting games is the lab time you put in training mode will reward you almost all of the time and modern controls just skips over that with auto hit confirms. I understand not everyone has the free time to learn classic controls, but man.... it's going to take some time to accept this.

6:25 On keyboard during the demo i actually got fireball a lot trying to classic DP. That seriously fked me up. Its bad habits from faulty socd cleaning

I'm new to SF (but i've played other FG's) and I don't quite get your example of using Modern Control supers to whiff punish or catch people on reaction: the actual frame data of the super isn't any different in Modern, right? So what actually makes Modern Controls so much easier to use Supers as a punish like that? Is it just the additional time it takes to do the quarter circle or DP motion compares to a single direction makes that reaction harder to do?

@chibinya

Жыл бұрын

It takes over 10f to do a raw super in neutral the old fashioned way. Reacting with super vs drive rush is basically impossible. 1f with modern control.

@colbyboucher6391

Жыл бұрын

Yes, the time it takes to do inputs is *absolutely* traditionally considered in how a special is balanced. Not just that it takes time but that it takes a moment longer for your brain to go "oh yeah do the DP motion" unless you're explicitly thinking about them jumping. It's true for everything, but it's even *more* true for stuff like 360 motions where the only way to get them out rather than just jumping is to buffer them with another move. By doing it in one button you can just do it in neutral and do it *way* faster. IDK why people aren't more upset about this.

I think luke is supposed to be an example of a character who will be good with modern controls. Ryu, a classic character, has more drawbacks with the scheme. The game also forces you to play with Luke's style, and modern controls, in the story demo. I'm curious if the pattern continues for the rest of the cast

@nairdacnalbel

Жыл бұрын

Marisa with modern controls is a monster, I'm calling it now.

@daviddamasceno6063

Жыл бұрын

Interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure it will be like that. In one week after the game is released there will be Tier lists for each character in each control scheme. I'm sure of it.

@blinx_x9925

Жыл бұрын

@@nairdacnalbeli think the grapplers are going to be the big threat with modern

@roundabout468

Жыл бұрын

FYI you can toggle off modern controls for World Tour mode in the settings

@bobby45825

Жыл бұрын

@@blinx_x9925 1 button walk up SPD is impossible to convey properly. You're basically the level 8 cpu from every street fighter past. Gief and modern controls go together like peanut butter and jelly.

I mean... Tbh, I was introduced to Street fighter as a franchise in Street Fighter 4. And honestly no matter how hard I tried, anything more then a normal canceled into a special or a super was beyond my realm of capability. I can not link my normals. But anyhow, even I think having two control schemes in a fighting game is a questionable decision. Especially when things like reactions are obscenely easier on "modern" controls. P.S: SF is so difficult for me to play but I took to Tekken just fine? It's so weird.

@permabanQrus

Жыл бұрын

Tekken doesn't require linking, and USF4 has like no input buffering to my knowledge. In SFV it has 5 (or 8?) buffer frames which makes it much easier to link normals.

@frostbitefalls

Жыл бұрын

@@permabanQrus I ended up getting placed in bronze and climbed to Platinum 2 so far. SF6 is a good buy.

One thing I'm curious about is, the "combo assist" mode lets you do combos that are otherwise not available to Modern controls, but that I've heard are not the best combos out there to be doing. I'm curious as to how much ability you have to break _out_ of those auto-combos midstream, and what benefit that could offer. Like say a basic auto-combo is "holdR2+LLLLL" and that does a full string, but all at reduced damage and maybe it's not the most efficient outcome. But would you have the option to, say, "holdR2+LL, _drop_ R2,M,H,Special,Super," basically leave behind the auto combo after the first couple of hits land and shift into the combo that a pro would be doing using Classic controls? Or would the control mechanics cause lag that would prevent that combo from working? If the combo would work, would the entire thing be at reduced DPS, or would only the portion that as an auto be reduced, and the manual inputs would be at normal damage?

@blinx_x9925

Жыл бұрын

you can break the combos mid stream at any point and change them up or even extend them if you want, also yes if you do the motion input for a move mid combo it does the full damage the 20% only applies when you use the special button for that move

@timogul

Жыл бұрын

@@blinx_x9925 So that will be the next step for KZreadr tutorials, a list of different combo options to break out of the auto-combos in ways that would not otherwise be accessible in Modern mode, but provide significant added value.

@blinx_x9925

Жыл бұрын

@@timogul yes most likely, the other big factor to find out is which characters are best with modern the answer will most likely be the grapplers and possibly marisa

Is the dynamic not going to be available in online play? I just learned about it in the demo. Ai assist, hold for L M or H combo. Grabs and supers are auto too I think.

Modern controls felt weird to me in the demo and didn't really jive with me. I do like how modern opens up the game to new players, but it will be interesting to see how viable it actually is once the game comes out. If people can have fun, that's all that matters. I can see why people are a bit worried about modern being the "meta" way to play in competitive though

@ps123fan

Жыл бұрын

almost feels like the modern controls is hitbox compared to classic controls. looks like a big advantage just adjustment is all it takes

@dylanlerian5960

Жыл бұрын

@@ps123fan Hitbox doesn't give a big advantage at all. People really need to stop spreading this for justifying their bad execution.

i know this generation of people just want this like easy instant gratification, but I care to constantly improve at what I do and see my results through practicing and not just going on easy mode and pretending I’m good

Thank you

After looking at Ryu and Luke in the Demo, I don't think the conversation will be about "you should always use modern / you should always use classic" but rather "which characters benefit / lose the most from modern / classic and is that trade-off worth it?" In my ideal world, there will be a character that benefits a lot from classic but is also really hard to execute in that control scheme which could be really cool to see play out.

@KaitouKaiju

Жыл бұрын

JP is that character

With modern controlls and how they work, it feels like there will be two players playing a different game where different things are viable or even possible. That's a really wobbly base for a competetive game. I can only hope it will end up as a 'feel good gimmick' for casuals.

So what happens with distance? There are certain moves, like JP's moves, that depending on the strength of the input it travels a different distance. Since modern controls don't have light, med, and heavy attacks how does it decide what distance to shoot the move? Does it track the opponent?

@vivi_main

Жыл бұрын

his fireballs are fine, as his command grab as there is only 1 version of each. For his spikes you need to do it via proper command: down down attack button and can get all 3 distance. The actual problem with Modern JP is that his down forward HP is NOT available and cannot be done via manual controls as it shares command with his low fireball attack. This is critically flawed as Hard punch version of striborg is an absolute must to his combos.

this is very interesting stuff

Itll just be character dependent based on what certain characters are missing. Kinda like how Melty has a gajillion different ways to play a character. People will just have to differentiate between classic and modern when talking about charavters

@eagleye2893

Жыл бұрын

The New Melty or Older Melty? Because Older Melty Has MK Style Variations Depending on the Moon, So It Makes Sense.

@ike804

Жыл бұрын

@@eagleye2893 MBAACC

@eagleye2893

Жыл бұрын

@guymontag5084 The Moon System Has Different Mechanics. C Moon Can Manually Heat at 100 Meter. F Moon Can Charge Meter and Initiative Heat (Roman Cancel). H Moon Auto Shield Counters (Alpha Counter), etc.

As a solely Mortal Kombat player with dial combos who's never really played SF and doesn't understand links and such, modern controls are such a massive win. It plays much more like MK in that specials are a direction plus button when in MK it's a motion like DF2 (down forward 2) and in SF6 a special can be F2 (forward 2) which allows it to make more sense in my brain. I was able to play and have fun in the open beta because it didn't feel like I could only do pokes and normals as opposed to other SF games I've tried and quit pretty quickly. I'm actually considering getting the game now because of modern controls. I know that'll probably get hate and "omg git gud scrub" comments, but I think it was a great idea by Capcom.

@sO_RoNerY

10 ай бұрын

SF isn’t MK, though. Either learn it or stay at Mk.

You sir have convinced me to buy SF6, literally bought it as I was listening to the conclusions part lol thank you!

Congrats on your vid getting featured on PC Gamer!

I wanna get into SF but that button business is a little crazy for me still. I also did start on Tekken when it came out eons ago. Side stepping is one of the harder things to get used to between the two, one button per limb is pretty and simple. Frame timing on any fighting game is a fight within the fight...

If you play on M - Controls I'm leaving during the loading screen

@thompsontroy083

Жыл бұрын

Scared lol, I done beat plenty of modern players. Just got too adapt to their play style

As someone who is completely new to Street Fighter, I'm still playing on selectively Classic controls. I've been playing Dragon Ball FighterZ for 2 years, played MKX for years, and am generally familiar with classic control schemes. Id be curious to see if modern is the first choice for people who are completely new to fighting games.

1 button specials do only save a few frames, but I feel like they greatly reduce human error/misinputs

i have a feeling they should update modern controls to remove 100% optimal option-select combos, make autocombos always continue regardless of block/hit, add extra start up frames to remove stuff like instant supers to match classic controls timing, but then also remove the damage penalty. This is all starting to look less about accessibility for newbies and more just about a new control scheme. That itself isn't bad, but to deviate from SF's DNA will get pretty weird. Motion vs charge aren't just arbitrary directional inputs. They actually have important details for SF's gameplay.

@EliosMoonElios

Жыл бұрын

Capcom design Modern Control to be: *A Easy Way To Learn For New Players, Not To Be Equal To Classic Control* Your "fixes" make Modern Control literally Cheating.

i hope they make separate online divisions for each button setting. i'm gonna be playing traditional.

So which characters don’t get impacted much by losing moves?/which characters are pretty strong still, even though they’re using modern controls?

Well said

As a smash bros player learning street fighter 6 with modern controls has been so much easier and I’m having a amazing time with the game so far

@dontworryaboutit5490

Жыл бұрын

Sounds about right

This is my first street fighter thanks to modern controls and I’m absolutely loving it but after playing the beta some characters are still incredibly hard to play like the drinking kicking guy who I wanted to main but It was incredibly hard to even try to learn him. I love the game but I hope I’m not forced to play as easy characters like Luke and the other guy in the demo. I’m sure if I train with the character for 3 years I should be able to get used to them like I did with Shang Tsung in MK11

@WagamaGaming

Жыл бұрын

Don’t let beta discourage you! The full release game will include an incredible amount of tools to teach new players how to learn their character. Characters that you think are hard are easy to others and vice versa. Luke will be a difficult character to master since a majority of his combos are very timing centered which can be incredibly difficult for players.

never noticed this, but is the hadou-ken actually two hands holding a fireball? When it breaks it looks like there are dark blue hands that were holding and moving the fireball the whole time...

@hmad898

Жыл бұрын

the hands were in street fighter 2, they just added them back in 6, you can also see them as the fireball is moving. The "fireball" is more like a flying punch, and apparently is only a little warm.

MC seem beast and scary, I don't know I feel about it. Yes, you lose some moves and a little damage, but if the moves that you do have are optimal enough and combine with the single button specials, then I feel like it will still be godly.

Zangief with one button supers being able to react to Fireballs seems incredibly strong

Just scared what the combo charts will look like with modern controls. I have a feeling itll be annoying to read for a while. That and they will totally dominate online, one button on ping will be huge

I can deal with the instant specials and supers or whatever, but I think I gotta draw the line at auto hit confirms. That's too much.

As a casual player, modern do look nice but theres that nostalgic feeling of using the classic layout and pulling off hard stuff with it.

I feel like using modern controls would diminish those *chef's kiss* dopamine hits when you successfully anti-air, or really any move in general. Sure removing button presses makes it easier and less complicated for newer players, faster all around so more competitive, but honestly less fun IMO.

@SlCKNESS_

Жыл бұрын

That's what worries me about the trend of "no motion inputs" fighting games like Project L. It's jut not going to be as fun. I played DnF Duel and all the special moves felt...ordinary, because of the inputs.

Honestly feels like removing the execution from fighting games in the equivalent of removing natural physical differences in people who fight (height, strength, endurance, etc). Takes the human element out of choking under pressure and the satisfaction of knowing you accomplished something with the effort you put in. Should be removed from tournament play imo. The pros will adapt to it either way. I don’t think having them will make for a better game to watch. Too early to really call so I guess we’ll see

@lucyfleet7402

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. I am not an advocate of 'Harder game is a better game' but I feel its okay to have easy combos which are reliable and harder combos which are a little less consistent etc. Adds an element of choice to the game, and more diverse playstyles Motion inputs are a contentious point, since I feel they are a relic but one which provides some interesting mechanical quirks to playing fighting games which I enjoy. Luckily I can still play classic and I am not competitive so I do not care if people are playing modern against me for a win, I just find classic controls more fun and engaging

If I could change anything about Modern it would just be that instead of the easy super button, just making certain easier or just having normals be auto'd (not with specials) and then having attacks changed based on direction. Similar to how it is now, but just removing the auto button (or just reserving it for doing EX versions of moves). I harken back to BBTAG and DNF, that did easy inputs right, with DnF rewarding taking the time to do inputs.

Can you imagine jumping gief’s command grab, but guessed wrong and he air SPDs with one button😂😭😭

What perplexes me about the situation is what they require (and don't require) for supers on Classic. They are enforcing that you're doing the full motion twice, but also allowing you to press only one button. (In fact they require one button, if you press 3 you get EX. WTF?) In SF4 and xT you were able to spam Down, Down-Forward (or Down, Down-Back) then only press Forward (or Back) with the attack buttons when you wanted to trigger the Super. I'd really like the options to enable SF4 style shortcuts on Supers (and also require 3 buttons.) The shortcuts will help bridge the gap on modern reactions because you can just sit crouched and buffer the motion w/o moving; unlike now where you have to do squats forward or backward. Requiring 3 buttons will also be nice because when you're buffering you can still easily select if you want Special, EX, or Super.

@ParrryHottter

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I dont know why they made Supers harder to do in SF6 (5 directions compared to 4 in SFV). Is it an oversight? Did they want to nerf reaction supers for some idiotic reason (but then Modern mode can just do them with 1 button). It's weird.

@thezard7013

Жыл бұрын

​@Bolo Fundoordriller I think it's a attempt to nerf the hit box controller

@thezard7013

Жыл бұрын

@Guy Montag I 100% agree its messed up. It even discouraged me because I was going to learn hitbox going into sf6.

@rob_i208

Жыл бұрын

I'm a long time keyboard and hitbox player. (Since Alpha 2 on GGPO.) I highly doubt this has anything to do with nerfing hitbox. If anything, I remember people complaining about the fact that players could sit crouched and buffer supers in SF4. This is at a time 99.99% of the discussion was about arcade sticks and most people I played with were amazed I could even play on keyboard. Honestly though I wouldn't be surprised if this was just an oversight. For as many things you can say are nerfs or actions to make the game harder and more precise, there are many many more decisions on making the game more accessible and easier (which leads to inputs being more fuzzy).

as a relatively "new fighting game player" (3 years and counting, experience in tekken 7, GG-ST and some XrD, some DBFZ, some GBFVS, very little SF5), i see literally no reason to not play Modern controls, they look WAY STRONGER than classic, with way more practically advantages and the option to use some "classic" tools (like QCF+L to fireball/specials with no dmg penalty), yeah you lose "some normals" (and depends on each character) but u gain A LOT OF RELEVANT ADVANTAGES like instant specials and supers and even option select? that pretty mental to me at least, i would like to hear way more veterans opinions on the matter honestly