Because it has the biggest Apple logo.

@brennanthompson

11 ай бұрын

But I wanted an orange lol

@l4g

11 ай бұрын

Don't traslate😠 ในเวลาไม่กี่ชั่วโมง หัวใจของคุณจะเริ่มหยุดเต้น วิธีเดียวที่จะป้องกันไม่ให้สิ่งนี้คือสมัครรับข้อมูลจากช่องของฉัน

@LestifyYT

11 ай бұрын

Lol

@mkbhd

11 ай бұрын

This is also true

@LestifyYT

11 ай бұрын

@@l4gbot

As other industry people have stated, the PCIE slots for specialist A/V cards might have been useful when M1 Studio launched but because it wasn’t, a lot of those devices were either replaced with TB3 versions or they got put in a Ext box, so the Mac Pro audience is now even smaller than it would have been.

@WarriorsPhoto

11 ай бұрын

Hence the price tag. 😂 Jokes aside. Good point about the PCIe devices going to TB3 devices.

@snowwsquire

11 ай бұрын

In the audio industry, we are moving towards networked audio using protocols like Dante. Instead of requiring multiple cards for inputs and outputs, a single network cable can now connect to a wide range of equipment. So It's really only specialist V cards now. 😏 It's funny because the move to networked audio was partially because of Apple's trashcan Mac Pro having no PCIe expansion, which caused external interfaces to develop, since no one wanted to deal with daisy chaining. P.S. Even macOS has built-in AVB (Non-proprietary Dante) functionality over the Ethernet port, but it's recommended to use a dedicated interface for optimal performance, as the built-in driver doesn't provide internet access.

@tears2040

11 ай бұрын

@@snowwsquire 🎯

@DustinFrancis

11 ай бұрын

Got the fully spec’d MacPro last week and pulled all the storage from my 2019 MacPro and put it in there and will be buying two Promise Pegasus R4is to add even more. The 32TB NVME RAID 0 I’ve been using has been great and I love having all the storage (I need) internally.

@snowwsquire

11 ай бұрын

@@DustinFrancis using the pcie slots to store spinning rust is actually crazy

That fan going all loud is a pretty common practice with server hardware actually, to ensure chip doesn't overheat since you removed the case and possibly might remove airflow shrouds.

@saladgreens912

11 ай бұрын

No that's the turbo lever that doubles as a handle

@jonjireh

11 ай бұрын

that makes sense

@realdevdiv

11 ай бұрын

it's funny how apple has bought most of our tech creators

@blackrockcity

11 ай бұрын

@@saladgreens912PCs in the 90’s actually had a turbo boost button that would boost their megahertz. Completely wasteful use of a switch! As others said, the Mac Pro is just protecting its chip when the user removes the enclosure.

@TradingFeline

11 ай бұрын

@@realdevdivhow so?

0:30 what a great way to show the different chips in all the configs of the different machines!!

Shot in the dark: because it took longer than expected and they have a direct product cannibalising it, I’m going to assume that they did have a faster, bigger chip for it that they couldn’t get to work; this being their fallback.

@zainmalik1872

11 ай бұрын

It legitimately looks like they put a Mac studio into a bigger case

@kaitlyn__L

11 ай бұрын

One of the various tech sites, don’t remember which now, claimed the yields were too low on the absolutely massive die size required for that 16x chip. Presumably they’re working with TSMC on that for the 3rd generation

@seeibe

11 ай бұрын

Makes sense. Guess they underestimated AMD. AMD may be a much smaller company in terms of market cap, but their engineers did an amazing job on chiplet architecture that Apple currently can't match.

@stock3503

11 ай бұрын

This makes a lot of sense to me

@Ajay-kz9ns

11 ай бұрын

@@xahst Not really. Apple was a already building there own custom chips for iphone from the very beginning. It's just that the chips got so good that they could now put it on laptops and computers. Apple already had very extensive knowledge on chipmaking and already been on the industry for a long time.

My PowerMac G5 Quad does the same thing with the fans if you open the case with it running. It's because the internals are designed around individual thermal chambers and the airflow is no longer directed properly if you open the case, so it speeds up the fans to account for that.

@jameswoll

11 ай бұрын

How is the airflow detected?

@Xaluber

11 ай бұрын

@@jameswoll It’s not. There’s just an intrusion switch on the chassis.

@TheBlackManMythLegend

11 ай бұрын

@@Xaluber Humans do not open me while I am running ! kinda.

@peporgan

11 ай бұрын

We should do a speed comparison of a G5 Quad and M2 Mac Pro. The two ultimate machines of their time.

@AnFunctionArray

11 ай бұрын

Mine blew last year - don't talk about it please - I had like 23 GB RAM (with OF hack I came up with - otherwise the limit is 16) - just after powering it on after shutting down it fume the magic smoke.

The problem with those PCIe slots is that it may well offer 8 PCIe slots, but the M2 doesn't have nearly enough PCIe lanes to drive all those slots directly. So instead those slots are behind PCIe switches and effectively share bandwidth with each other. (Like old 4-way SLI motherboards on the PC side used to do). Which for Marques's use case isn't too bad because he's only going to use 1 16x card. (the bigger problem there is the slots only being PCIe4 when intel has been shipping PCIe5 for almost 2 years now) but if you're some broadcasting customer like many in the comments keep bringing up as the intended use case for this machine you are in for a rude awakeing. Because those customers rely on their 4k capture cards not fighting for bandwidth with their 100gb network card and their fiber connection to the SAN. Same goes for any audio engineers that want to put their PCIe based audio gear for their 2019 Mac pro rack version into this machine. Those PCIe switches basically need to turn off the PCIe lanes for one card for a tiny fraction of a second to give the other card access and vice versa. That introduces latency and any form of latency is an absolute killer for any professional audio workflow.

@peanutnutter1

11 ай бұрын

Ouch, that's terrible, sales of the Pro will be brutal.

@drummerdoingstuff5020

11 ай бұрын

Chitty chitty bang bang

@Reclinesmc

11 ай бұрын

the more pcie lanes is likely going to come in the redesign NEXT year or a few years after.

@swordsx48

8 ай бұрын

@@peanutnutter1 I can't tell if you're sarcastic, but I genuinely hope they are so that they really revamp it

@jani0077

7 ай бұрын

the other problem with this machine is the RAM cap. In the studio, where I work with audio recordings and post-production, 192 GB of RAM is a joke compared to the current 512 we use in each of the installed intel mac pros.

You always make nice clean videos man, crisp, beautiful and the info I’m looking for. Thank you!

For those wondering just what kind of sound cards you might put in an M2 Mac Pro. AVID HDX cards are hugely important to film and television post production where 2-3 Mac Pros will be connected together with these cards to provide all the low latency audio processing necaseary for mixing movies and TV. There are also other high bandwidth (128+ channel) MADI / Sync cards that allow composers to offload some of the work of virtual orchestras to secondary machines. There may not be many customers for this product but the ones that do exsist are likely to be buying multiple if not fleets of these for studios and workspaces

@theeltea

11 ай бұрын

All of this is easily accomplished without PCIE via thunderbolt.

@sebulban

11 ай бұрын

@@theeltea it depends on the speeds needed. TB is only pcie 3.0 with 4 lanes. MacPro has pcie 4 slots. Two 16x and 4 8x. Pcie 3.0 x4 is about 32Gbps where as Pcie 4.0 x16 is about 250Gbps

@theeltea

11 ай бұрын

@@sebulban Audio doesn't require that much bandwidth even with insane channel counts and high sr

@SirrelSquirrel

11 ай бұрын

Since the trash can Mac Pros most facilities just use external TB PCI boxes

@gregrodrigueziii8075

11 ай бұрын

@@theeltea okay so you would connect all 3 avid HDX card to your thunderbolt I/O? while you need to run several 4k monitors? you do know how many I/Os will be used in big post production right? this aint for home studio. This is for actual studios running million dollar projects who cannot be delayed, that needs less of computer tinkering and more of set and forget system that can be connected to a system already millions of dollar facility invested in. This is cheap compared to time wasted whcih is more expensive for a studio for unnecessarily tinkering a computer and setting it up. specially if you need to change your whole studio just because you need to change to a new o.s. Imagine how much that will cost just shifting to a new system already in place for years. this machine is way too cheap for such studios. Basically thinking which will be more cost effective for such a little thing as your workstation in that environment is a waste of time. Thats why it's weird to see people get such machine in their homes as their personal computer. It's not for that. Now can you build a more powerful machine at a cheaper cost? yes, will it be compatible to an already existing system in place? No. will it be the same system? no, and thats the problem. the system and workflow shouldn't change in that kind of scenario. why would they bother changing the whole system for something that will be so small of an expense in their over all operation?

It exists so that the Mac Studio can seem like a good purchase

@mattg082

11 ай бұрын

Very good point… I see very big producers that of course had the Pro day one. Then ended up replacing it with a Mac Studio. PCIE in the music world at least isn’t much a thing anymore with Macs. Most are just straight out USB-C AD/DA systems. The point of PCI back then was more processing power, but we passed needing that with new chips 5 years ago if not more! Even pro grade external AD/DA is just okay and play and apple compliant. If on PC some do use PCIE because it interfaces better as it’s not Windows compliant. But on OSX no need for PCIE in the music world much anymore. And if you have too for legacy stuff, get an external chassis! Almost all high end audio gear has been no drivers needed, mac compliant forever. But not so much on PC, so the PCIe gets rid of ASIO and you get a more dedicated system. OSX doesn’t need all that and it’s plug n play. I run an expensive pro grade Apogee rack AD/DA, and the PCIE option was cool in like 2009. Now you can just plug it in via USB-C and it works. Load additional software for direct monitoring. But a Studio plus maybe 2 dongles and any audio system is going to slay! 100+ track counts on that beast! Newer fast I/O has great bandwidth!

@pj61114

Ай бұрын

LOL! Love it!❤

@katiesymons5815

Ай бұрын

This. 100%

Howzit bud ! Major fan of your pure reviews ! Keep doing what you doing my man ! Stay safe !

The old G5 cheese grater towers would spin up the fans to max if you took the side cover off with it running as well... It's a safety thing to make sure it gets airflow when the fans are partially blocked, or in the case of the G5 when the side panel was off and the air wasn't directed around the components as designed.

@PhyrexJ

10 ай бұрын

Yeah or they just used thermal checks to see if its actually needed to boost the fans. It's a real stupid 'safety' feature.

Tons of TV and local news stations across the country have been waiting for this new Mac Pro to drop. They load them up with AJA cards for capture and fiber cards for their SAN. I worked for a company that setup these Macs at hundreds of these locations across the US. This system is a big deal for them.

@PedroPauloAmorim

11 ай бұрын

Finally someone with some background to give a light to that.

@davis6123

11 ай бұрын

Great insight, thanks for sharing. Niche market but when they’re charging $7000 minimum, Apple will still print money selling these things.

@charliex666able1

11 ай бұрын

Small post production house here: Mac Studios with BMD UltraStudio/thunderbolt for SDI. But fiber SAN I can see. For me going from a heavy MacPro tower to Studio (with a thunderbolt SSD Raid) has been so wonderful.

@m-stat9

11 ай бұрын

+3000$ just for PCI is still unjustified.

@brafya

11 ай бұрын

finally someone said it, this machine is targetted at enterprise, broadcast and production who have been stuck on on the 2019 hardware and needs new stuff, avid acceleration cards, aja kona cards, 1000gbit network cards, 8k capture cards, blackmagic, production switchers, it's getting tiresome people simply dont understand the product isnt targetted at them.

For those who didn’t watch throughout, at 5:09 he says it exists just for PCI slots so there ya go

Excellent, well-reasoned review and justification for your upgrade (that Storage Card is a Beast!) Thanks!

Love the MacPro - I have used the older G3’s, G4’s and G5’s but with the current lineup I finally do not need the Apple Silicone MacPro - it feels quite weird to not see a tower in the space. Although it would be nice to use and I do like some of the expansion cards available, but the cost and the speed of the studio make it a better fit. I know some colleagues would prefer the MacPro just for the expanded internal storage as having a dedicated external array is an issue when on location - having it all in one case makes for less carry and worry. Thanks for your continued coverage - enjoy the channel and your frank assessments.

I'd like to see a performance comparison between the Mac Pro with a card in a PCI slot, and the Studio with the same PCI card in an external enclosure connected via TB.

@carbongrip2108

11 ай бұрын

Huge bottleneck for SSD's and 40Gbps/100Gbps Network Cards. Got to remember that a lot of the users of the Mac Pro want Fiber Channel cards.

@nathanmiddleton1478

11 ай бұрын

I would guess for your $3000 that it's nothing more than a fancy TB connected "external" enclosure already.

@odiHnaD

11 ай бұрын

@@nathanmiddleton1478 TB3/4 has 40Gb/s (little b = bits, equivalent to 5GB/s; big B = bytes) of bandwidth (equivalent to a 4x PCIe 3.0 slot) the Mac Pro has four 8x and two 16x PCIe 4.0 slots, rated at 126Gb/s (15.75GB/s) and 252Gb/s (31.5GB/s) respectively. Fancy indeed when having 3-6x more bandwidth on tap for array based PCIe SSD storage cards

When you try to take the case off the Mac Pro, it ramps up the fans to make sure air flows over the parts it needs to while being in the open air. It’s similar to blowing down a tube at something far away vs blowing at it in the open. You need to blow harder in the open. And the last one actually did do that. I believe Snazzy Labs was one of the first to discover that when he hacked the case off it while keeping it plugged in.

0:42 This is the best chart I've seen explaining the Mac lineup.

Excellent vid mate.

I'm real worried Apple has engineered themselves into a corner here. The massive max RAM downgrade is a severe problem, and I have to wonder if they just could get their architecture to work with non-shared memory, or physically distant memory. If the next Mac Pro is more than a year from now, and still doesn't have expandable RAM, I think that'll be pretty good evidence for this.

@therealnotanerd_account2

11 ай бұрын

Apple could release a brick and stupid people would by it. It is not about tech or quality. It is about mindless cultism.

@DanKaschel

11 ай бұрын

I’m pretty sure that will come in the next generation or two. Just adding support for external pci-e devices was a pretty heavy lift from M1 to M2.

@katrinabryce

11 ай бұрын

The competition in that space uses AMD Threadripper and Intel Xeon W, which are based on their server platforms and designed very differently to mobile phone chips.

@sentropez1337

11 ай бұрын

They're waiting for CXL to settle into consumer viability.

@cameronbosch1213

11 ай бұрын

And no ECC memory support in some fields is an immediate dealbreaker. You know, the fields that would have bought the 2019 Mac Pro but now have no option in Apple's ecosystem.

I really hope they add further expansion capability to their SoCs; dumbfounding that it still doesn’t support GPU expansion

@guidosaur7506

11 ай бұрын

I think it makes all the sense in the world when you consider that it's Apple

@piyushpithava8540

11 ай бұрын

don't need gpu in this pccs

@martywalters4804

11 ай бұрын

@@piyushpithava8540 sorry I don't speak wrong

@kjetilhvalstrand1009

11 ай бұрын

Because graphic card, has intel code in bios, perhaps, you need emulator to initialize the gfx card.

@stariqa2

11 ай бұрын

Don't think there is any ARM based processor that supports external GPUs or RAM. ARM cpus perform better per watt, but are less versatile than x86

The server version did the fan thing. It's to keep some air flow since the lid seal is broken. It was designed for Intel rack mount Mac Pro.

Love your connect always sound real knowledgeable

10:50 thats what a lot of server chassis do to keep the dust and other debris out i think

The color grading and composition in this video was beautiful. I rarely notice and certainly never comment, but I was awed. Thank you for all the effort that went into it.

@zeyy84

11 ай бұрын

Thank the team!

@chutcentral

11 ай бұрын

Chill 😂

@Laspatoadv

11 ай бұрын

@@sebfleebee And you cant really tell what color grading went into the video unless you say the real place and raw footage... seems bot-y

@Mgrimes517

11 ай бұрын

@@sebfleebee I did. And maybe because it was just him talking to the camera that allowed me to see all of the details. 🤷🏽

@IT10T

11 ай бұрын

Frankly, all the top tier YT tech creators have 2160p or better quality. As far as MKBHD goes, have you seen the M2 Max Macbook Pro video they did? This is mostly talking head, with black and white background... unless you are talking about the ProRes clip they have in this, which is another example of their top quality composition.

It's clear from the lineup that the Mac Pro should have had a base configuration of M2 Ultra with a high end M2 Extreme variant also in play. Obviously somewhere along the line Apple dropped the ball and could not ship the Extreme chip. Perhaps the M3 version will fix this glaring oversight.

As always - great vid and summary 👍👍

Most video post is on PC, but in the audio post world, Mac is still very much dominant. ProTools is best used with HDX acceleration/IO cards which connect to Avid audio interfaces. HDX uses PCIE. Thing is that we have been used to using Thunderbolt to PCI-E chassis for a while. And while they are certainly a bit more messy, a lot of studios are used to using them already with Mac Studios/Mac Minis. A plus I also did not consider with the Mac Studio is how much less space they take up on a rack versus a Mac Pro - you can actually get two in a half depth 2U rack. Even with the added cost of a PCIE chassis (typically $500-ish), it is still much cheaper to go Mac Studio. Of course many will go for the Mac Pro for the added convenience/reliability, but the Mac Studio has proved a surprising hit that may end up eating most of its market share.

Loved the graphics and subtle sound effects in this!

@RyanSoltani

11 ай бұрын

Really well done

@zeyy84

11 ай бұрын

Yea the team is amazing

I love when the MKBHD editor makes a typo at 1:38, it feels natural and very human😆✌

Well done, these kinda videos get closed most of the time but wasn’t bored.

Regarding the fan thing, I'm guessing that it makes use of a lot of directed airflow via ducting for cooling, and if you take off the lid, that all goes away, so Apple chose to detect a (soon to be) removed lid and spins up the fans?

@mrsittingmongoose

11 ай бұрын

It’s called chassis intrusion. It’s a common feature on servers. They rely on a certain airflow path and when you remove the lid it changes that. So pretty much what you said. It’s very normal for workstations and servers to operate that way.

@kylecoolky1189

11 ай бұрын

Yes and the old one actually did do the same thing

@LaughOutLiberty

11 ай бұрын

@@mrsittingmongoose Never worked with servers but I love computers. This is a neat explanation that makes sense. Thanks, learned something new.

Nice take Marques. I was wondering what you were going to say about this Mac Pro. I'm in the category of user: "Why spend all that extra cash for the Pro when I can get a fully loaded Studio for a fraction of the cost?" Of course, my workflows aren't as complex as yours, so the Pro would be overkill. A maxed out studio would be a treat for someone like me. Keep up the good work brother.

We worked off of my buddies M2 Pro setup for a year but found that it always struggled when coloring or effects came into play. It would shut down on us from time to time. Happy to announce that my new M3 setup is handling the same type of footage like a champ. Mostly 4K 120fps action footage.

The G5's used to crank the fans when the clear plastic cover that guided the air flow wasn't totally sealed against the frame. I don't know if it was some sort of air pressure sensor or just a pressure switch that the tabs on the cover would hold down, but basically, it was to keep people from running the Mac with the door off which totally messed with the thermals.

Thanks for making great vids. I'm a long time subscriber (and newer podcast/studio fan) and I love your content. You really help people understand tech better, and your my inspiration for making a tech channel/blog

Im wondering how Apple is going to handle this. I wouldn’t expect yearly Mac Pro updates but then again if they release a new chip yearly, they would kinda have to. Feels like they’re putting themselves in a bit of a tight spot here…

@TwatMcGee

11 ай бұрын

Not really, the imac 24 is still on m1

@AlexAnteroLammikko

11 ай бұрын

@@TwatMcGee iMacs aren't pro machines though.

@JackMinardi

11 ай бұрын

One option would be to only release ultra versions of every other chip (i.e., no M3 Ultra), so it would still be the top of the line performance for it's whole product lifecycle.

@GoatDR

11 ай бұрын

They should just switch to a 2 year cycle on Mac's and chips. Base M chips one year, Pro chips the next. They need a larger iMac and an update to the 24" bad.

@bluepeng8895

11 ай бұрын

@@AlexAnteroLammikko Neither is the Macbook Air but it still gets yearly updates

Excellent piece. The inside and exterior of the Mac Pro is a thing of beauty but I hope they create a smaller version next time around. It’s time for an update.

Marques is growing stronger. Not just a tech review, but an educational channel. Love you, MKHB!

@creavityatrandom

11 ай бұрын

you spelled that wrong but I still get what you mean and agree with you

@pavanmasurkar

11 ай бұрын

mkhb?

I'm glad someone finally said the obvious... simply PCIE slots. I'm glad you brought up to one complete failing with this and that's not being able to install other GPU's to do other work loads. Could live with it only being the M2 that could be used for screens but would have been nice to be able to use other GPU's for background rendering. I'm more looking for the music side of thing... I did notice the Avid HDX PCIE card in your examples and it would be this and the native one I would have installed... along with one UAD card and also the storage option much like you will have... if, there's a need to go this far with it. Maybe there's a better option coming with the M3 line??

Honestly, you can use external PCIe NVMe cards over TB4 for a good chunk that bandwidth. But there really is something to be said for 1 big box with all your storage and IO in one.

Very interesting, looking forward to new production.

It was fun seeing you at Collision!!!

I work in IT for a company spanning multiple countries that does stuff with video, DO NOT STOP USING EXTERNAL BACKUPS. Connect the NAS to the network and set up automatic backups. You really don't want all your data to go poof if something catastrophic happens to your main machine. We even go as far as backing up all of our projects to s3 buckets and then move them to Amazon Glacier for old projects.

@Mutio86

11 ай бұрын

Yes, at least following the 3-2-1 rule is always a good idea when it comes to backups.

If we don't consider the PCIe slots, I think they also refreshed it because they decided the profitability beats the R&D cost to stick in a M2 Ultra into the Mac Pro chassis, and also keep the door open for a potential M3 "Extreme" or "Ultimate" for the next iteration of the Mac Pro. Essentially, renewing the product because it's cost effective (people will buy the M2 Ultra Mac Pro enough to offset costs) and also hold it up as a temporary stopover for when they differentiate the Mac Pro once again as something above the Studio. EDIT: Lol didn't realise Marques brought this exact same point out in the last 60 seconds of the video

You do a nice job of explaining things. Greetings from Rockford, Illinois.

I just love your videos!! Best tech channel!!

The last Mac Pro was certainly just as expensive and not a good fit for most people, but the fact that we lost the ability to upgrade GPUs and RAM is a massive disappointment. I bought my 2019 Mac Pro because I kinda had a feeling it would be the last industry standard, modular and upgradable Mac they'd make. I was holding out some hope but unfortunately I was proven right. Apple Silicon excels in mobile devices and small desktops like the Mac Studio, but a desktop as big as the Mac Pro that you can't put stuff into (aside from storage cards or specialized ones like Marques mentioned) doesn't make sense to me as an average computer user. Especially not for a $3K premium.

@TywinLannister0

11 ай бұрын

thank you for your criticism of apple, you're better off with a Threadripper CPU from AMD, and a Computer tower with a GPU from NVdiai or AMD.

@tylerjames3620

11 ай бұрын

not only for storage also sound cards and a few other things like fiber channel cards, fiber networking cards, video cards ( not graphics) and Ethernet cards. I’m sure they are trying to cut off all external chips and gpu though. They are expecting the m1-m2 chips to be enough. But If anything they could have given the option to add another chip for people who wanted to do things like that.

@jonesconrad1

11 ай бұрын

@@TywinLannister0 problem with that is that you can't run macOS in a sensible supported way.

@jonathanodude6660

11 ай бұрын

if youre an average computer user, the product simply is not for you. no use critiquing how something that wasnt designed to meet your needs doesnt meet your needs.

@accordinglyryan

11 ай бұрын

@@jonathanodude6660 You don't have to care what I think, I just put it out there . I still think for 95% of even professional/business environments the Studio is a no brainer.

I hear your theory at the end but maybe I'll play contrarian for a second by saying that they might end up keeping this design for the foreseeable future, considering the OG Mac Pro from 2006 carried over the external design of the Power Mac G5 from 2003 all the way to 2013. The G5/Mac Pro design (and the Mac mini) seemed to be the design exceptions for the longest time in their lineup, unlike the rest of their computers during the PPC to Intel transition. 👍🏾

Great video as always, just pointing out a typo at 1:36 It says 'Radon' on the first graph

I think main reason why this exists aside from a handful of niche cases where it's actually needed is because there are enough people who will just buy it because it's the most expensive product in their line-up. And most buyers will never use the expansion slots. It's kind of the SUV of the computer world. It's bigger, heavier, more expensive, but 95% of owners never actually take it off-road and would be better off buying an estate car. But it makes them feel good to own a product that is superior in their minds.

@btn237

11 ай бұрын

As soon as a reviewer says “I’m going to use this, but you peasants don’t need it”, you’re going to get a subset of individuals (not gonna lie… they’re probably dudes) who buy it as a result.

@MrTresto

11 ай бұрын

THAT is the answer. And since I live in the USA, it's so prevalent that I can't even buy a wagon/estate version of the car I really want (a sports-sedan) and had to buy the SUV version to have a proper size trunk/boot despite not even wanting one. Oh well.

@maxpro751

11 ай бұрын

@@MrTrestoJust buy a truck.

@GameOver-nm2us

11 ай бұрын

​@@maxpro751oh yes, you want a small sporty car? Get a fucking truck! Makes sense!

@celery7810

11 ай бұрын

@@maxpro751 Yes just buy something more expensive and less safe

Its about the card slots on this one. Its for people that need proprietary pci cards for their work and jobs. Funniest part was when Marques points out you still may want the older mac pro cause it supporters GPUs for GPU cores.

@cameronbosch1213

11 ай бұрын

Exactly. Nobody sane is going to buy this terrible deal of a kitchen appliance.

@braddl9442

11 ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213 For me the older model feels superior cause it can use GPUs and you can upgrade the ram as needed. Even with older CPUs having more ram and being able to hit GPU cores with loads matters for some people.

@demoman1596sh

11 ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213 The idea that the Mac Pro is a kitchen appliance is laughable (despite its size), but you're right that it is probably a terrible deal for most people.

@zizhdizzabagus456

11 ай бұрын

Most don't need it some need it. That's what marques said. Maybe one day they will create a dedicated GPU for M chips.

@taidee

11 ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213 there's a lot of sane people who will buy this one Mac who don't need GPUs for their workflow but rather other specialist expansion cards and fast storage.

The mac pro not supporting video cards with that many PCIE slots is just wild to me.. It makes an extremely niche product just even more niche. I feel that a lot of the 'features' here could just be replaced by a server, and then you use the mac studio if you really need to use apple silicon.

@DickCheneyXX

11 ай бұрын

This is Apple. Their clients buy the thing over social pressure, not rational reasons.

@user-gb8nx8qr2z

11 ай бұрын

just because you dont know what to do with internal expansion doesnt mean everyone is as ignorant

@VideoArchiveGuy

7 ай бұрын

Plugging in an external PCI-e card is just as much of a niche solution; few people have the need to do so, especially with the graphics performance of the M2.

Great video as always!

10:28 With the small volume of Mac Pro’s sold, I wouldn’t be surprised if an exterior redesign takes another 4 years or so. Which means it’s closer to the M5-generation of Apple Silicon. We’re left hoping Apple spec bumps the processor generation at least once mid cycle.

In the spirit of this video, I thought I’d ask: I know you say that the storage situation is a use case (which it totally is), but I would be really interested to know how much this makes sense from a cost, reliability, redundancy perspective. By the time you’ve upgraded from the Mac Studio, bought the first (and presumably not the last) storage card, doesn’t it just get to the point where an upgraded network attached storage option would be the right way forward?

@Eiwizzy

11 ай бұрын

NAS storages although can be fast can never be faster than onboard memory options. The speed of the storage card mkbhd mentioned seems to be 2-4 times faster than even apple’s ssd so it seems read and write speed is pretty important to him

Actually, based on information from apple suppliers. M2 Extreme was in the work and was planned to be used for Mac Pro. However, it turned out fusing two M2 Max chips were wayyyy too expensive and Apple doesn't see enough demand for a chip like that. So the project was scrapped in the end. 48 core CPU would've been the most insane thing.....

According to SnazzyLabs there was indeed a *'Jade 4C-Die'* but I presume they had technical difficulties with it as LTT Labs showed us how M2 Ultra itself is large or actually larger than the largest enterprise class Intel Xeon processors.

the fans shot up when you undid the latch because the case is integral to the correct airflow inside the machine just like in blade servers so it,s a safeguard to avoid overheating

2:19 wait what 💀 that’s not 80% better lol

you have the most expensive mac pro, but you don't have the most expensive wheel for this computer

Thanks for explaining why anyone would want to spring for the mac pro. Curious, how do you keep everything on that OWC SSD card backed up? I assume you have it in some kind of raid configuration in case one of the component SSDs fails, but what about remote backup? Do you use cloud backup for all those TBs of data or do you have a personal cloud backup to another off-site storage device that you also own? Thanks.

Love this guys videos!

Hey! I was wondering, have you experienced any "disk ejected" messages when waking from sleep, with either the M2 mac pro, or the intel version when using pcie expansion cards for storage?

@ordinaryopinion4081

11 ай бұрын

Hi! I don’t have an answer for you!

It's a shame it maxes out at 192GB RAM. I certainly don't need 192GB, but there are Mac Pro users who'd certainly want more for certain applications. Maybe the M3 will be able to use additional external memory by turning the on-chip stuff into a giant L3 cache. Could be interesting to see.

@blion3d

11 ай бұрын

If they do that, everyone is gonna find the way that works to expand the lowest configuration memory to the highest to save money, and that doesnt like to apple

@DanKaschel

11 ай бұрын

@@blion3dif Apple makes external memory “cards”, believe me, it won’t be cheap.

@prashantkaushik7063

11 ай бұрын

What are people doing with all that memory? Like opening 5 chrome tabs?

@griffin8062

11 ай бұрын

@@prashantkaushik7063 Sound libraries for music composers are often in excess of 300GB

@benwaardenburg

11 ай бұрын

@@griffin8062 I see you also watch Neil Parfitt

Even my G4 PowerMac (who is old enough to remember those?) did the exact same thing when you opened up the side panel and then removed the transparent plastic air guide panel thingy: All the fans spun up to max rpm and stayed that way until you replaced said transparent thingy! 🙃

Working In the AV world the extra PCIE slots would be super nice to have. I run 4 projectors at once plus live stream video outputs. We currently need a dedicated thunderbolt PCIE chassis to run it. It works, but an internal one would be awesome.

8 TB cost 2.5 grand extra in the studio. so you could justify getting the pro by getting better storage for less extra money, if you had any other use case. also can't expand later with the studio. It's still ridiculously expensive tho.

@tommy_lyon

11 ай бұрын

This is why I'm done with Apple, they used to be premium but absolutely focused on the user. Now they just seem to be making it up as they go along. $2.5k for 8TB in 2023 is just absurd.

I am surprised they upgraded the Mac Studio. I was convinced it was a stop-gap and would never get an upgrade. Now, it looks like MacStudio is the new "mac pro" and "Mac Pro" is "Mac For Industry Professionals Who Need pCIE slots." - That said, I will probably never outgrow my M1 Mac Studio. As a software developer it is more Mac than I will ever need. But it's good to know I didn't buy a one-off solution. Thanks again for your quality work. I continue to subscribe. Continued Success!

Thanks for being interesting enough, cool enough, and geeky enough for me to sit through a Mac video. If I was actually running a studio or had the money I might get a Mac Studio - but the price is likely beyond my reasonability limit.

Great vid , good presentation, thanks !!!!

The high end Macs have always been called into question dating back to the MacII fx. They exist for a few reasons; I suspect Apple use them, companies that use high end equipment use them and they are good PR for the lower end Macs. Back in the 1990s when a Mac II fx, tricked out, was $12,000 most people just laughed, especially so called experts in the media. My company put them into printing companies and newspapers in droves. In those places the cost of the Mac was low compared to other equipment they used, and the ROI was huge.

@MalcolmREBORN

11 ай бұрын

Difference is back then, there was a large performance discrepancy between an entry level desktop, workstations, and laptops. Today, a professional can get everything done on a MacBook Pro without waiting for anything to compute. Things have changed. Today, these large desktops are niche.

@Teluric2

11 ай бұрын

​@@MalcolmREBORNNo. You cant do advanced simulations,crash testing matrix calculations because M1 doesnt have math extensions on silicon Try on a mac simulatingan an aircraft engine with 10 million degrees of freedom for 2 weeks nonstop, macs cant

@digitalclips

11 ай бұрын

@@MalcolmREBORN I agree with you, but 'niche' was my whole point. My comment is more about the blanket attitude high-end Macs always attract. I have a Dell Precision Work Station with 192 GB RAM and dual Xeons, and the price was astronomical, but no PC KZreadrs disparage Dell for having high-end Work Stations. They ignore them and focus on those products in their users' price range.

@little_fluffy_clouds

11 ай бұрын

@@Teluric2how do you mean? Apple Silicon has all the hardware needed to run any simulation, including hardware FPU and vector acceleration extensions. Not to mention unified memory architecture expands available memory to GPU cores.

A modular Mac Studio will be dope!

How did he stretch this to an 11+ minute video????????

@_laloruiz_

Ай бұрын

what you mean?

@sdhd5922

Ай бұрын

How did you not learn anything

Marques got my dream job. I love tech and I’d love to talk about it all day lol.

When you showed us the 64TB SSD module, I thought you were going to say you were going to fill up all 6 PCIE slots with them for a total of 392TB of storage (assuming you maxed out the internal storage at 8TB) 😂 that would be mad 😅. To be fair 64TB at that speed is insane!

@benbork9835

11 ай бұрын

One of those 64tb filled PCIe cars will cost you about 30k btw lol

@michalkowal4816

11 ай бұрын

@@benbork9835 Nope. It's $12k.

@ryanlawrence3690

11 ай бұрын

This ain't LTT my guy..

I’m glad we can always count on MKBHD to answer the questions we are all asking 😂

Marquees, the PCI slot differentiation between the Mac Pro and the Mac Studio is a BRILLIANT observation. I love watching this channel because you always show your expertise on the products you review! 😊

It does have a lot less ram though. The old one could be configured with 2tb. Would have been nice if this had optional ram slots in Addition to the on chip memory

@redbaronlast

11 ай бұрын

1,5 tb

@ChristianStout

11 ай бұрын

The Xeons that go in it support 2TB, but the motherboard only supports 1.5TB. Your point still stands though. We won't see 1.5TB of onboard RAM until the M7 Ultra or something.

@user-gb8nx8qr2z

11 ай бұрын

dont need 2TB ram

@tejiriamrasa3258

11 ай бұрын

@@user-gb8nx8qr2z speak for yourself homie

0:19 the Tim the tatman outro kind of got me confused

@jaystark4717

15 күн бұрын

Yoooo I was scrolling and couldn’t find anyone mentioning Timmy!!! So was I lol so finally after scrolling I made the comment myself lol then after a single scroll later I seen yours 😂

I was hoping they would have the unified memory and a ddr5 controller to allow slower system memory not at the unified speed. I was also expecting an m2 extreme, but I guess they didn't get that working in time. I project the m3 generation will be a large upgrade for that system and they just needed to get it out.

@andresd270

11 ай бұрын

I had the same hopes

@katrinabryce

11 ай бұрын

I was expecting to have a choice of 2 or 4 M2 Maxes with up to 192GB per socket.

@wabash9000

11 ай бұрын

@@katrinabryce There was rumors they were working on a larger chip for it but I guess they didn't get it working and just needed to release what they had. I would be surprised if they released it as socketed chip since everything else is soldered on, but it would be interesting since the chips would be upgradeable.

it's kinda weird how the M1 ultra was pretty decent at launch, with top-tier CPU-performance and mid-level gpu performance and now the M2 is just 15% faster while intel and AMD have increased performance by 40% for CPUs and Nvidia and AMD nearly doubled the GPU performance...

Love the Mac Pro growling at him at the end.

I expected the Mac Pro to have a unmatched big hot chip, like MX1 or some thing like that, something unmatched, ECC memory. But no, they were not able to make it happen and just stuck a M2 into it because they clearly run out of time. Another product like the Studio Display: clearly meant to be something else but then hastly completed to be sold

I just wish they'd put the CPU on a card that could be upgraded in a couple of years. That one thing would have stopped it being obsolete in a couple of years. Like, you know, the Intel Mac Pro is now.

Can you test the bandwidth of the PCI slots? I’m wondering if they are limited to TB4 bandwidth.

Cool review 😊

If I was someone that was waiting eagerly for the Mac Pro to have the M-series chips, I would have been pissed that this is what they released. It's insane that Apple didn't show off any expansion cards, like extra GPU cores or maybe extra Neural Engine cores. You can get the Mac Studio with every single thing maxed out and it would still be less than the starting price of the Pro, and at 1/10 the physical footprint.

@mm-hl7gh

11 ай бұрын

Just out of curiosity.. what do you use the neural engine cores for ?

@TheStopwatchGod

11 ай бұрын

@@mm-hl7gh Machine Learning tasks

Hi Marques, at minute 1:45 it says radon instead of radeon

I think this specific variant is a stop gab. I think it is essentially a prototype for using the m series in a desktop form factor. Essentially a placeholder to keep investors happy and to show they're serious about moving to arm.

@mkbhd love that new PCIE SSD - what are you using for archiving old footage? I assume there are still some HDDs somewhere in your workflow?

Thanks for pointing out reasons for this machine. Too many people are assuming that their needs are the only ones that exist.

The fact you can get same performance from the computer for half the price is hilarious

@RyanSoltani

11 ай бұрын

Hey Heisenberg

@lehlohonolomoloi2109

11 ай бұрын

This exactly what I don't understand about this lineup

@manoschaniotakis3328

11 ай бұрын

he literally explained the reason on the video. Once you get yo server side stuff. its all super-expensive for almost no reason....almost

@ivato46

11 ай бұрын

Well, it's apple at the end of the day, they can do whatever and people would still buy their products. The point tho is very well explained in the video for this case, I don't justify 3k over but different needs different choices

@AndreVictorGoncalves

11 ай бұрын

​@@lehlohonolomoloi2109 It is all about greed. Apple knows it customers will pay, so they overprice it.

Any "server" type case ramps the fans up when you take the case/side panel off.

I heard somewhere that technically you could use a gpu as an application accelerator card if you were to write the drivers for it; its not inherently locked but apple just wont support it out the box, or so the rumor went atleast.

Same chip but twice the price😅 The M3 chip will probably be amazing! 💯 Great video and dope graphics 🔥

By using the same design for the last intel and first apple cpu versions of the same computer not only can they use up existing parts but they can best show off the thermal advantage of the apple chips, as it is operating in the exact same environment.

11:04 The fan noise is probably a safety feature to let people know the case isn’t fully secure

01:30 Error. Radeon is spelled without e in first line.❤