Commando and She-Hulk are very different in terms of writing. Commando was written so that it would be appreciated by Arnold's fans. She-Hulk was written so that it would be rejected by Marvel fans. They both knew their audience, and they took very different approaches with that knowledge.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Very true. Commando might not be deep, but it's fun, which was the intent. I'm baffled that Disney green lit a show that seems to be bad on purpose.

@water6006

Жыл бұрын

Commando had some very interesting action scenes

@grandcanyon-fu9zt

Жыл бұрын

I loved Commando

@MarsM13

Жыл бұрын

It should also be noted that "Commando" is largely forgotten by general audiences, as are most Steven Seagal movies. "Commando" and most Steven Seagal movies being the most similar to how modern movies about women are written, with Gary Stu/Mary Sue characters. The movies that are most remembered from Arnold are movies like "Predator", in which Arnold loses constantly for most of the movie, has the men he leads murdered while every order he gives to save them fails, he only saves one person, the prisoner, and does it by using character-insight, a female trait. He then gets his ass kicked AGAIN, and only wins via manipulation and cunning, feminine traits. Afterwards our last view of him is him looking traumatized in the helicopter, which is neither masculine nor feminine but simply, vulnerably, human. Everyone remembers "Predator". Only hardcore Arnie fans know "Commando".

@ttrev007

Жыл бұрын

I was going to say that is you just saved the action scenes in She-hulk it would not have been that bad, but thinking back is barely had any action. I do think if you had just made a female action star that was just some fun action scenes it could have worked as long as it made sense and did not preach.

Female empowerment should be natural. If the female character has to constantly putting men down and having no flaws, it completely ruins the point. Women shouldn’t have to put men down to prove they are strong.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I really don't understand how more people aren't offended by these characters. It's the sexism of low expectation.

@CLDJ227

Жыл бұрын

Not only that but it may be sending the message that women are only strong if the men around them are dumb, incompetent, or are easily able to be put down.

@ttrev007

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 i am offended, it makes the 'strong female character' look weak. its toxic thinking and ruins the female characters.

@ace-zs1ob

10 ай бұрын

​@@ttrev007No, theyre degrading Men. Male characters are better.

@janeyrevanescence12

Ай бұрын

I once asked one of my friends, who was all for “strong empowered female characters”, how it would look if she saw/heard the person she admired and respected most berate and beat down another person to prove that said admired person is better than them, what would they think of them. My friend responded with “Well, I’d think they’re a bully. Plain and simple.” I asked them “and what if the person they were picking on was the opposite gender?” She immediately saw where I was going and tried to cry about “the oppression” and “the patriarchy” and “women are better”…but I knew from her body language that I had hit a sore spot.

honestly it just pisses me off with all these so called "strong female" characters we have today. I personally just wish we had more female characters like Ellen Ripley from the alien films. she never tore men apart, she wasn't toxic and she wasn't afraid to show compassion or emotion. Ellen Ripley is a true strong woman, especially in aliens.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I agree, and I think it's because she wasn't a "strong woman" in the modern sense. She was just a well written character in a well written story. No one was trying to use her to signal their virtues

@toughbutsweet1

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 The same is true with Linda Hamilton in the Terminator series.

@gunnargraver

Жыл бұрын

What about Clarice Starling in Silence of the lambs? Now, that's a strong female character.

@lewlewlaser037

Жыл бұрын

@@gunnargraver I've never watched silence of the lambs but I do know that Jodie foster was her in the film, good point btw.

@gunnargraver

Жыл бұрын

@@lewlewlaser037 You should, it's one of the greats. It should be on anyone's movie list.

I miss the days when "strong women" characters proved they were strong by their actions and didn't beat you to death with an overbearing diatribe 🤣Geena Davis in The Long Kiss Goodnight, Carrie Ann Moss in The Matrix, and Rene Russo in Lethal Weapon 3 and 4 are my favorite examples of that now seemingly extinct quality 🤣🤣

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right and what's really great about those examples is that the characters were actually strong and complex, not just given the illusion of strength by being surrounded by idiot characters so they look good by comparison

@Godstud

Жыл бұрын

Furiosa. Ripley. Sarah Conner. All strong women. Now it seems they have to make the men weak, to prop up strong, but poorly written female characters.

@Thisguy2532

Жыл бұрын

@@Godstud don’t forget to mention the underworld series

@CLDJ227

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 Comando I think even had a interesting female character that was strong and cool.

@tstewart1963

Жыл бұрын

Don’t forget “The Quick and the Dead” with Sharon Stone

I don’t think strong female characters fail more so compared to men. What fails is the “modern” feminist’s concept of what makes a strong female, which basically is taking all the worse traits of a human being which they internalize as typical “male” traits cause they’re sexist and applying that to female characters saying this is what makes a “strong woman.” When in reality it isn’t, just ask anyone over the age of 40, and just shows how nasty, miserable, and insecure the person writing the character is.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. What's strange is that they are writing these female characters like the worst men imaginable. The thing is, we hate those men, too! No one likes an asshole, it doesn't matter what's in their pants

I just really want to point out how successful the resident evil movies and underworld movies were . Both with female leads . They weren’t all “ girl power and the force is female “ about it .

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

True. They promised action and delivered. I think I enjoyed underworld for the reasons beyond the action, though...

@Thisguy2532

Жыл бұрын

Underworld has always been one of the best action films imo hands down 100X better than twilight lmao 😂 they understood how to make a feud amongst vampires and werewolves and still show the problems within there own camps and not to mention the story from the first film all the way to the last one has made absolute sense in its progression and that’s even with the third film being a prequel, it worked and they made it work.

@matityaloran9157

Жыл бұрын

Not to pick on Jennifer Lawrence but I think she’s more or less representative of how woke Hollywood elites think in acting as if all cinematic history began in 2012. Since the first woman to be an action lead in a movie was Jéanne Cavalière when she played Joan of Arc in 1900. But a lot of people today have a hard time realizing that movies have a history which didn’t begin extremely recently

Also, the people involved in these projects are pea-brains. That Lotr show is supposed to invoke a sense of wonder and grandeur but its subject matter limits everything that could have been good. It's like 4 year olds fighting for their cases. A single baseline thought does not make a story or even a case. Thanks for this incredible thought session!

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! After what amazon did to Wheel of Time, I didn't watch it and the reviews tell me I made the right choice. You're absolutely right that a character that's just angry is childish as hell. Real adults are more complex than that

I find the new Puss in Boots not only the best thing since Spiderverse, but it had a thought-provoking message: mortality. It didn’t bear me over the head with it, it told a glorious story with glorious characters (and Perrito). A movie about a cat with a sword made me think about how I’m spending my time on earth. Not since the sad Mr. Hooper episode of Sesame Street have I been hit with such a thought-provoking message in a kids film/show. Think about it.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

It was an astounding movie and I wish more people would see it. That's what good writing looks like. It's asks an extremely deep question for you to ponder, instead of slapping you in the face with a shallow political message. And Perrito is just the friggin best

@BirthweenBoi

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 in addition to what I said, I know that Perrito is integral to Puss’ character development and such, but I feel like he’s Donkey 2.0. In all the wrong ways!!! His jokes fall flat. Aside from having him cuss several times on the movie (and possibly calling the bears the n-word like a 13yo boy playing Fortnite), Perrito ain’t doin’ it for me.

@Jiren261

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 A lot of people won't watch it because it's animated, Every time I recommend it to someone I always get "I'm not watching a cartoon, I'm not a kid". Animation still has a stigma in the west and that really needs to change, A lot of great movies get ignored because of the whole "Animation is for kids" mentality

@missAlice1990

Жыл бұрын

​@@BirthweenBoi Perrito might be annoying and unfunny to people but I don't think he's Donkey. Donkey had no purpose in the narrative besides being a comic relief. Perrito might not be the best comic relief there is but he's necessary to the story, not just because he's important for Puss' character development but because the story needed the absolute goodness in it. Almost all the characters were morally grey, we got the absolute evil Jack Horner (and the wolf to an extent but he's different, obviously). The story needed someone good. It was aiming for a character that is good to his core, not a character that is a comic relief. And Perrito doubles as a comic relief only because there are few other ways (if any) to make such a character fun and interesting. Perrito's story is terrifying and tragic, but shows you can still be happy nevertheless, if your attitude is right. And it's an important message (I know, it sounds a bit cringey) nowadays when everyone seems to want to be a victim. Now, could Perrito be a better character? Probably. It's fine if people find him annoying and unappealing (it has a lot to do with him being kinda ugly, I think) but saying he's just a copy of Donkey seems a little unfair to me. They might be similar in certain ways but ultimately the very core of both characters, their essence, their substance (I don't know how to call it but there is something that makes a character this character, even if some traits are changed in different iterations) is completely different: kindness, childlike optimism and overall goodness vs. sassiness, cheekiness and simply being funny.

@mattmartin6493

29 күн бұрын

Such a great movie, I saw it with my daughter in theaters and was so glad we did. I've since bought it and tried to tell people how great it is.

My short answer is that i have never seen male strong characters disgrace women to look better like I see the other way around.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely. You could argue that the women were helpless damsels in distress, but they weren't intentionally written to be horrible so the hero looked good

@necrosteel5013

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 most people in the same situations would be like damsels in distress, male or female doesn't matter. Not everyone has the ability to be the hero and often the damsel is the most straightforward way to understand that. They never make it look like the damsel is weak just because she is a woman either, that's how man-haters bastardize and spin it to look like.

Obvious reason is the Male characters are just written to be characters, over the top yes, but still characters. John Matrix from Commando is an insanely strong, tough soldier who is shown to be intelligent, a skilled fighter and a one man army...However, he's also shown to not be invincible, he can be out smarted, can be injured and even overpowered and all without making the people he's fighting against seem weak. Plus he is shown to be a relatively nice guy to people who aren't total assholes or trying to kill him. Sure he treats the Stewardess a little poorly but otherwise he does show gratitude for her helping him and apologizes for getting her into this mess. Also helps we don't have a hard time believing he's strong and capable because obviously he looks strong and capable. Compare that to characters like Jenn from She-Hulk or Kit from Willow. Both are characters who basically need to have the deck stacked in their favor to make them seem strong, with any showing of "strength" feeling unearned and them simply being given kid gloves because they are female characters and that's all the writer cares about. Their personalities are extremely abrasive and unlikely to essentially everyone, acting as though what they want is more important than anything else. Plus neither character comes across as essentially strong or tough because the actresses are always extremely frail and skinny who you couldn't believe for five seconds could actually beat their opponents in a real fight. In summation, Male characters are good because they are characters who happen to be men while Female characters are individuals whose only character is they are female.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

You're totally right. Male characters are just characters. Female characters are now billboards for whatever message the writers want to send

@thefanwithoutaface8105

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 And that message is almost always Men Suck Women rule, especially if they are gay.

@Thisguy2532

Жыл бұрын

Yep remember that scene in she hulk outside the bar and Jenn went hulk mode, Bruce had to stop her because she could’ve killed three dudes just for talking to her, then she looses it later on and destroys a giant monitor because her phone got hacked then bam she’s got guns pointed at her, which is what Bruce tried to tell her that even just normal anger could make her look like a monster and still you don’t really see any consequences like Bruce had

@nochannelhere859

Жыл бұрын

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 I completely agree!, Characters who are numbed down to only having their gender as a personality are dumb and we should stop making them because they're not even entertaining. ..though I think only calling it exclusively female characters is a bit close minded, I mean, not every female character is like that?

@nochannelhere859

Жыл бұрын

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 that kind of message does suck :/, but I want you to know that the real goal of those communities (LGBT and the feminist movement), isn't to just try and say that you all suck!, The point is so that all of us can be respected and treated well, without having bigotry or hatred simply because of how we were born.

One thing, 80s male action heros can be very hostile toward the bad guy (and the henchmen who work for the bad guy) But they are NEVER hostile toward ordinay people, he is most of the time helpful to them, but he can scream at them, like "get down" to save there life.

Literally Anything Is Better Than She-Hulk. Also The Disrespect Towards Fire Proof Is Hilarious.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Listen, I love the Lord but I can't pretend Kirk's movies are high quality just like I can't pretend Chick-fil-A is better than Raising Canes.

@sorenhansen3288

Ай бұрын

@@gregowen2022I actually like Fireproof…

I was born in early 2000s, I have watched modern and classical movies, but one thing I have realized is yes there were stories and characters in the past that were badly written however they weren’t really over the top like u see with characters now adays because back then characters were just looked as characters where as too now it’s more than that where we a lot of times have to reflect movies to the real world (which I’m not saying it’s a bad thing but it depends how to write it & execute it well). Also a lot of audience most of time don’t really care about “the message” in movies, cause usually we would watch something what we enjoy.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

That's very true, but I also think modern movies are going to age poorly. Since they are made to reflect the current political environment, they won't be relevant in just a few years.

I agree with your statements in the video. I think it's important to consider audience expectation too. She hulk is supposed to be a fun/entertaining super hero series, not a preachy, women are superior to men mess. If someone wants to make a movie/show that shows women are better than men, then maybe it should be done in a more entertaining/satirical way. AND it should be advertised properly so it doesn't disappoint/mislead viewers. I believe most people enjoy well-rounded stories and characters, but sometimes we love to consume trash media too. As long as that trash media is marketed in a honest fashion, I don't mind. I know what I'm getting into.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

That's a solid point. I don't think I would complain if a Sean Penn movie preached at me. I should expect that. She hulk was marketed as a fun comedy. It was neither fun, nor comedic

Fun fact: The Valmet M78/83 (the Finnish RPK) that Arnie uses in Commando was also used in Predator because both movies were supplied by the same theatrical armory. Bill Duke was also in both movies. 1:55 That's Vernon Wells (who also played Wez in 'The Road Warrior' and Mr. Igoe in 'Innerspace'). And that might look like a chainmail vest, but it's actually made out of something more like rope. I think I read somewhere that it's a WW2-era British-issue thing. 6:41 Actors always have terrible trigger discipline. Also, 20-round mags were obsolete by the mid '80s.

I'm very happy that you did this video, because every time the Critical Drinker or someone else says something like "characters without flaws are boring" I immediately think "What about Jason Bourne? John McClane? Rambo? Bryan Mills (Taken)?". I needed to know why THEY work and these Mary Sue characters don't.

@petery6432

4 ай бұрын

For John McClane, it's quite straight foward. He is flawed. He has a failing relationship with his wife, which comes up when he's on the walkie talkie with Al, among other things. He also has arrogance issues, as he decides to make an example of Karl by sending his body down the elevator, rather than trying to keep his presence hidden. In addition to this, he does endure many issues that seriously hurt his progression towards his goals. His encounter with Hans that ends with him having to run through a huge amount of broken glass, getting cornered and having to give up his machine gun to escape, having to listen as Ellis gets himself killed. These are serious troubles; they don't get resolved effortlessly.

@janeyrevanescence12

Ай бұрын

For Bryan Mills, his single minded focus on saving his daughter from the sex traffickers who abducted her (which shows just how much he loves her) is both his greatest strength and also his greatest weakness. Yes, it drives him to find her and eventually succeed. But, it also blinds him to the fact that one of his key allies is in the traffickers’ pocket, a fact that nearly costs him his daughter until he figures out the truth. Rambo on the other hand suffers from implied PTSD and intense anger at the way he and his fellow Vietnam veterans have been treated by society. Is his anger justified? Absolutely. He’s just trying to find a place to heal from the various traumas he’s suffered and gets flack from unsympathetic characters who treat him like garbage. However, like Mills, Rambo’s anger at his mistreatment pushes him until he’s almost killed. It’s only until being reminded that he’s the last survivor of his team that he finally sees reason and surrenders. Both of their flaws nearly cause them to lose everything.

@spiderjump

10 күн бұрын

jason bourne was a tortured character ... he lost his memory and when he found out the truth that he was an assassin he sought out and apologized to the daughter of his first kill. he was a bad ass fighter but it is not as if he did not get beat up as well ... he lost his girl friend

I think that the real problem is that shows advertised as having a "strong female lead" tends to rely on "message" instead of, let us say, "substance". I don't think that this is inherently tied with female characters, but it tends to happen on shows with "strong female leads" more just because it's symptomatic. What I mean by that is that there is this trend of focusing on the aesthetics of the shows (not only visual but of the discourse itself too) and just not caring about characters and plot. If everything looks good and progressive enough, people will like it. Plot and characters needs to be just the lowest denominator necessary for people to be just able to engage with the content, and then they'll naturally like it, because it's political! If it's political and it is on the "right side", disliking it is being in the wrong side, isn't it? Think about it. I never watched Commando, but I presume that they establish the main character as having simple but convincing motivations to act (saving his daughter), and the plot revolves around male power fantasy with goofiness cranked to 11. I'm fairly certain that I would not like this movie not even a bit. But I wouldn't hate it. Because it at least seems to work: it sets small goals and achieves it through simplicity. They literally didn't care about the "political message" they were sending. I'm not saying that politics aren't important, but making a show completely centered about it and just presuming it will be enough to satisfy your audience... How many times have you liked a show in wich the main character is insufferable, and the plot is a power fantasy centered around them? How entertaining this sounds??? How am I supposed to like a show in wich the main character is a piece of s*t and the purpose of the show is to promote them?????

You're VERY insightful Greg. I wish a lot more channels that speak out about these weird, nonsensical tropes of modern writing that have infested entertainment today would logically analyze these tropes a lot more without constantly droning on about the creators personally. Anyone that talks about this kind of stuff either does that or just profits off of the backlash from it. You take a very analytical approach that's informative and fun with it. I appreciate that.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much! I think there are enough angry youtubers, so I think we should give this approach a try. I'm enjoying it and I'm glad you are too

That was a solid analysis my friend, not merely rage or cynism, or haughty academia but precise common sense. Impressed. I'm glad I stumbled upon your channel. 👍

The best strong female character ever made in movies is atomic blonde. The action scenes in that movie are the best, she kills men with strategy and tactfully, she doesn't run through them like a bull dozer. While also taking a lot of ass whooping.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

That movie has been on my "looks cool, I should watch that sometime" list for a while. Several people have mentioned it on this video. Seems like I need to prioritize that one

Good channel. Good production value. Hope to see you grow in subs.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the kind words!

Excellent video. One thing missed though is the comparisons like this that are often made, even by the left to justify how strong females are portrayed now is that they often bring up movies like "Commando" forgetting that those kind of movies are passe and 40 years old. It would be like asking why everyone does not love westerns if they started doing them again or why Abbot and Costello type routines do not connect with audiences now if they did movies like that today. Movies like Commando and Steven Segal movies were a fad of the mid to late 80's to the mid 1990's. And they also forget critics HATED THEM. They were made fun of. I used to get MAD Magazine and one of the funniest ones from back then had a goofy looking Arnold and Stallone with the title "Command-dope!" They were really made fun of. It isn't like critics were acting like they were Oscar winners. James Bond now? Gets tortured and loses. The argument they are making is that people and online critics now are somehow bad because they are casting females in action and science fiction/fantasy movies where they act like guys from movies 40 years ago that the critics hated even back then. That is a weird argument to make.

As a woman myself and into fiction writing, I completely agree. I miss the days that a female character was written as a person. To me, it can be inspiring to see a character that use their smarts and character-development to overcome obstacles or find solution to issues with their life or goals. Now it’s about sending a message that if a character happens to be female, she must use her gender or sex as her entire identity and some type of privilege of superiority. They are objectified as political ads that they should not have any struggles or realistic (for the fictional universe) responsibilities. What makes it worse is its specific women writers that lead this narrative, and started this change. In some cases like in gaming, they even want to remove the idea that a female character can be attractive in a feminine way while being complex, AND while ironically making female characters watered down versions of men. I don’t mean there is anything wrong with masculine style female characters-they’re just as great as other styles. What I mean is that there is a hypocritical agenda in doing so, while making them that way, all to ironically one up “men.” Then these women writers claim a victim identity that an attractive female character is just “male-gaze” bait, when it’s proven time and time again audiences of women enjoy them just as much as one’s that happen to be men. These modern day women creators ironically demean attractive female characters as just objects for men just as their sexist male counterparts. Sorry for going a bit tangent, but it’s something I wanted to add. The comments are correct, it’s sexism. It is fiction being used as sexism under the idea that doing the same wrongs that these women writers of their abusive men in their lives is somehow a solution. They are no better than the types of abusive people who happen to be men they claim to hate. Now they abuse the medium of fiction out of an idea of entitlement that is the same mindset as the groups of sexist men they associate with.

I actually disagree that Movies and shows cannot have a message, but the thing most shows and movies don’t get is the story comes before the message, that’s the difference between movies that are preachy and movies with solid messages that you don’t even notice until either the story eventually points it out or you get to the end. An example of a series that has a strong message that doesn’t damage the story because the message is kept in check (and held towards the middle of that season as part of the solution) is Re:Zero. Yes I know it’s anime but they are really good at managing this. Not going into much of spoilers, but throughout Seasons 1 & 2 we have seen the MC Subaru start to devalue his life in order to save others. Even in Season 2 he has several points where gets angry at people for saving his life. The midseason of Season 2 has him confronted about this mindset and a question is posed to him - “Why haven’t you realized that you should be among those you wish to save?” At that point in the story he had convinced himself that no one cared if he died, but it was shown to him the platonic love that everyone has for him. That people grieve when he dies. It changes his entire perspective and let’s him see what his power - Return by Death - is for - to save him when he would be killed. It gives an answer that you need to still love yourself and care for yourself while also trying your best to protect everyone you care about. To summarize - I believe you can write messages into the story, but you need to write them so they compliment and are apart of the story, not overtaking the story. A small dash of your message while showing what things are like without it go much further than beating your audience down with the message.

Anything pre 2010s had amazing guilty pleasures, bad or not , they still got that charm to them.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

What is it about modern movies that has lost that fun feeling? The last time we got something close was The Expendables. It knew it was silly and just leaned on in. Everything is taking itself so seriously lately

@grandcanyon-fu9zt

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 I love the expendables

@NewCanada

3 ай бұрын

Life was a lot better before 2010.

Appreciate the Happy Souls clip, and good video

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the watch and kind words! Happy Souls is just such a classic

Sorry to detract from your great points but no joke at around 7:00 I heard weird noises and children shouting I kept pausing my video thinking it was kids outside going mad. xDDD Still great points, it's a shame that a lot of movies, series & television is being warped by the message. I wouldn't mind if it was well written, I still think of Sarah Connor from the terminator as one of the biggest examples of an amazing strong women; starts out as a ditsy waitress ends up crushing a killing machine from the future. Badass.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

HAHAHAHA, that was my kids. I tried to cut as much out as I could. Sarah Connor was in the 80s! She is decades-old proof that good writing is possible

3:53 When you brought up the fact that even if a show is heavily pushing the message *you strongly agree with,* the resulting show ends up sucking as badly as many modern shows which try to shove _THE MESSAGE_ down your throat, it won you my subscription.

i would say media with messages does work, movies like apocalypse now were made with a fairly clear message, I feel its when its message first story second thats when it starts to fall

Nice DnD product placement. However, you should try switching the over used 5e I to Savage worlds. It's more insane.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I was told having books in the background would make me look smart. Hopefully the 5e stories and my Hitchhiker's Guide suffice. I would go more insane, but I dm for my kids. It's insane enough. They are quite bloodthirsty

I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but Prince of Egypt clearly wasn't message first. You could definitely argue that the whole movie is a message in and of itself, and people are free to take it or leave it, but the amount of effort that went into the presentation; the music, the world-class animation, the pacing, the characters and character design, etc. It all shows how the presentation in and of itself was designed to make it an extremely memorable experience, even if you didn't get, didn't care about, or ultimately even disagreed with the core message of the movie. You can be a hindu and have a completely different cultural outlook on the problems and conflicts presented, but nonetheless still appreciate the movie as an absolute masterpiece for a plethora of reasons other than its core message. But She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, and anything that goes woke-first, and then tries to create art around it (or just foregoes art entirely, believing you can somehow make a TV show that's all message and no show), is bound to suck. At that point, it's not a show. It's an episodic campaign speech. And no one cares. Firstly, you either already agree with the message and don't need to have these feelings and ideas you already have blasted at you for hours on end, or, secondly, you don't yet agree, but you're open to the message, in which case this is a terrible way to convey it, or, thirdly, you actively disagree with the message, in which you're not going to sit down and spend hours receiving it, unless you're intentionally hate-watching it and taking the piss. Now, I really don't understand why a female character can't have a hero's journey and become strong, overcoming challenges and failing along the way. I think they did okay with Jessica Jones, but that show had its own problems in other regards. Hurray for the alcohol master-detective stereotype. But apparently it's literally impossible to write a female lead who becomes strong over the course of her show, learning and developing as a character as she goes and grows into her newfound power and responsibility; she must be strong by default from the start, because starting out weak, like most memorable male leads in the same situation, is apparently... bad? I don't know. I really don't understand the creative process. Everyone liked Luke Skywalker because he was a flawed and weak character who grew strong by facing immense challenges and learning from his betters. No one likes Rey because she was demigod 'chosen one' non-character right from the start. She didn't have to earn anything. And no one cares about She-Hulk when you instantly make her "The Hulk, but way better at it" even though he had to go through SO MUCH to get to that point. It's just a free win. And who cares about watching someone get a free win? She-Hulk is arrogant because the writer's think powerful women should be arrogant, but isn't that the wrong lesson? Shouldn't the lesson be that powerful women had to work hard and overcome challenges to get where they are, can do what's right and fair like any man, and that they can be just as responsible and rational with their power? Then why does it always come across as: "Lol, woman stronk. Man bad!" and 'yasss queen!'-bait? Or am I out of touch with the cultural zeitgeist, and is arrogance and narcissism hip now? It all genuinely baffles me.

As a christian myself I mostly agree with the notion that those movies are bad. I like a select few but what i enjoy about them is that i can watch them with my family and often learn a lesson i can apply to my life. Bottom line those movies bad? Yeah pretty much but I can watch them to learn from a message i agree with.

Dude, love the D&D books in the background

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Gotta show off the library!

The line about how a movie can be thought provoking if it asks questions is on point. A good movie asks a question and usually gives multiple answers. A preachy movie gives a single answer to a question that was never asked.

4:25 LOL, thank you so much for this. This the kind of honesty that gets people to listen. Nothing ruins a good message like eye-rolling moments such as corny attempts to be relevant or contrived scenes. (Of course the drama of the overall story of Jesus _is_ entertaining, but the actual meat of Jesus' message is meant for contemplation, realization, introspection, gratitude, etc. and that's poor fare for Hollywood-type entertainment.)

lets take a tail of two current shows Wednesday and Willow. Wednesday she's smart ruthless and angry at the world. Kit Tanthalos She's angry, arrogant and condescending. The big differences is in Wednesday they makes it clear she believes she is smarter and better than those around her she may snark at them but the show never belittles them and male and female characters treated pretty equally and when someone she has know for a few weeks is hurt she is upset and worried . In Willow Kit is disrespectful to everyone the male characters are weak or dishonest and when the old knight who has helped protect her and her brother since they were children is killed in a completely stupid way she has zero reaction . Wednesday is strong independent and smart Kit is petulant, rude and arrogant. It isn't Woman hero bad it's badly written female hero bad.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

It's depressing, but we knew they'd botch Willow, however I'm surprised to hear that you like Wednesday. I haven't seen it yet, but I just assumed Netflix would fuck it up somehow. I'll have to give it a try

@alankohn6709

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 Wednesday is a lot of fun she is just the right level of snarky and dark one of my favourite lines is when she is asked about how she is getting on with her roommate she replies "She has smothered me with kindness something I hope to return tonight, with a pillow". It does have a little feel of the Sabrina series but that may be the setting at a school but if you like the Raúl Julia movies version of Wednesday you should like this series. Willow is to be fair not unwatchable and I am basing my description on the first two episode with that in mind. I believed it can be summed up by a description of our heroes. Kit our heroin unlikable, arrogant and entitled, Her girlfriend the good knight, Madmartigang if he was played by Amar Chadha-Patel (he's fun and I like him), the nerdy bookish prince (who grew on me), Willow as the Mentor and comedy relief and a Disney princess think Anna from Frozen whose secret identity is obvious halfway through the first episode.

@TheDalinkwent

Жыл бұрын

Kit is insufferable...she really does make the show unwatchable. What writers always miss when trying to write women characters like Kit, is HUMILITY!!! Even Tony Stark would be become insufferable if every thing he does is snark and disrespect on those around him.

@alankohn6709

Жыл бұрын

@@TheDalinkwent I've seen episode 3 Kit does get a bit of a rude awakening to what effect remains to be seen. But by Odin's hairy sack does it punch the accelerator and go off a cliff while lighting a stick of dynamite in the middle of the episode SPOILERS Alura meets two characters straight out of a bad comedy skit they are like the worst of SNL and they agree to help her at which point they are promptly murdered possibly to show how high the stakes are and the cost of the battle to come. Something they demonstrate in a much better way at the end of the episode.

Some don't. As cheesy as they were, the old Charlies Angels movies were good. I did enjoy the Tomb Raider movies, Jolie ones. It's when they try and beat the "women good, men bad" message that it gets shit.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Very true. The new Strong Female Character does such a disservice to those older female characters

You should ask JL she is first ever strong women more then hero caracter in movie industry

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

😂🤣😂🤣 Yeah, she is the original!

@AA-wd2or

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 🤣🤣🤣

The best stories have a message, or theme, but it's very important not to overdo the theme. It's easy to be preachy with it. Lord of the Rings has a clear and powerful theme but doesn't preach, which is why it is a timeless classic and more than "mere entertainment".

I honestly thought the show would have been better if Jen were 10 years younger. Like she was fresh out of undergrad or even out of law school. The writers admitted they had a hard time with the courtroom scenes anyway. I can suspend my disbelief as well as any comic book fan, but it was hard for me to believe that a woman in her 30's as immature, insecure, and incompetent as Jen could be an assistant D.A. before going into the private sector. She could have been a quiet, studious, mousy type, and then when she gets her powers, she would have acted like the sorority girl she always wanted to be, until she has her "Great Power, Great Responsibility" moment and she grows out of it.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

That would have made for an excellent show! Sadly, the writes thought she was perfect in every way so there was no need for the "great power, great responsibility" moment. Hell, Bruce tries to give her that speech in the first episode and by the end of the season, it still hasn't sunk in. Just sad.

Your comment on "Batman v Superman".. Thank you.

I will be honest, I completely agree with the argument that she hulk is absolutely horrible and commando is pretty entertaining!, But- it's not because of a message or not in my eyes. I mean, everyone has their own taste but to be completely honest I don't have any clue on how you got that view?- I just think that stories with messages are great!, Almost any story has a message, and it's absolutely great!, Idk what's going on but yeah. Movies and media's are an absolutely wonderful media for sending all sorts of messages.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I agree that a message adds depth to something. I think it comes down to execution. Is the message woven in or is the show a powerpoint on the writers political views?

Violent revenge fantasy movies geared towards women don't work because women don't have the revenge fantasies, at least not like men do. It's the same reason why reality shows about human relationships (as opposed to building stuff) will never be geared towards men.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

That's a solid point, which makes she-hulk even weirder. Who was that show for?

@colleenross8752

Жыл бұрын

Kill Bill?

@MattyGears1583

Жыл бұрын

@@colleenross8752 More men have watched kill bill

@thefanwithoutaface8105

Жыл бұрын

Yup it's part of the reason that movie Bros bombed so hard because Romantic Comedies already have a small audience and making it a Gay romantic comedy just shrunk the possible audience even further.

@goldmind9399

4 ай бұрын

You never seen I spit on your grave?…kill bill?…women like a good revenge story.

I feel like a strong story with a good theme (or a good story with a strong theme) would be able to get a message across decently well anyway. A good theme is usually universal to the human experience, so build a story with a good theme, and you might just a point or two across to the audience. Suddenly, you're not preaching to them; instead, they find the theme compelling because of shared experiences-or at least empathy.

I actually liked Fireproof, but the best Christian movie is The Passion of the Christ!

Strong female leads don't suck. It depends on context. Almost all horror movies have a strong female lead. The final girl trope exists because of this. Seems like most people forget about the horror genre, maybe on purpose or due to ignorance. Some of the greatest horror movies of all time have a female lead.

I think your comparison to cheesy Christian Message stuff like Cameron is SPOT ON -- that is exactly what is going on. Interestingly, there is a more prominent example of great literature that is built around the Christian Message -- C.S. Lewis's Narnia series (and to a lesser extent the amazing space trilogy). Somehow he managed to preach in those series without sacrificing character or story at all. It would be interesting to think through what made the difference between Lewis and Cameron and apply it to woke Hollywood -- could there in theory be a movie with The Message that is still good? It may be that it would take a generational genius like Lewis to pull it off -- someone with a genuinely deep understanding of both human nature and The Message. But then I suspect it may turn out that the Christian Message is deep enough to support great storytelling built around it, while the current Hollywood Message is just so incredibly shallow that it just in principle cannot support good storytelling.

I’d also argue that when it comes to why most male action protagonists work and modern females don’t alot of the time is because male characters get their best characteristics brought to the front where’as recently with so many female lead movies they have this weird almost purposely abrasive personality and dialogue that is in place to grate everyone watching. This seems to be a problem with modern writing Sigourney Weavers Ripley or Thurmans The Bride even Eowyn from Lord of the Rings are magnetic and despite being flawed individuals (mainly in the brides case) you are still impressed upon them and enjoy their journeys Compared to the latest Marvel fare like Captain Marvel and She-Hulk or rings of powers Galadriel Two incredibly abrasive characters that have their most agnostic qualities used at the forefront. Little relatability and even if their going for a perfect paragon style character their just to unlikable to fit that trope

You unintentionally nail the problem with strong female characters and mary sue like female characters now by comparing it to "commando" from 1985. The left is basically arguing that they should be able to make movies from the 1980's that were NOT GOOD. Every critic SAVAGED movies like commando. Mad Magazine did a cover lampooning that movie in the 1980's calling it Comman- dope! Plus, alot of the 1980's movies were a response to the "Heaven's Gate" debacle that caused United Artists to go bankrupt. That shook Hollywood back then as that never happened before. So they wanted safe movies with bankable stars. No risks, no complicated plots or complicated bad guys. Just as basic as you can get. That is why even movies like back to the future were green lit. They shot it in an old high school, some homes and a mall parking lot. There were like two special effects shots in the whole thing..lol. They wanted bankable stars just killing bad guys, cheap, with zero nuance. So when they whine about critics savaging their woke movies now with mary sues girl bossing everything, they cluelessly do not get that critics HATED the movies with guys doing the exact same thing when it was guys doing it too. They are trying to argue something that they wrongfully think people were fine with when "it was guys", when that is not true at all.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

That's a good point. I guess Commando has just recently become a cult classic because it's so campy people love it now

@timreeves8937

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 Thanks. Arnold, Stallone, Van Damme, Segal..all of them got savaged by the critics. Rambo sequels are hated by the critics and were back then too. Jackie Chan got some love because he famously did his own stunts and there was some artistry to his fight scenes, but the argument that critics somehow had no problem with guy movies where they were unstoppable killing machines is just false. I remember Siskel and Ebert having to review a Segal movie when he was big and they just laughed through the whole review.

What really pisses me off to no end isn't just the horrific semblance of writing, it's the fact that there are FANS of that bullshit that you cannot convince that it's bad. They will call you every name in the book and then some because you dare talk naughty about something they love. They cannot handle criticism. AT ALL.

John wick might be superhuman but was still razed close the reapers door and I constantly felt worried for his safety wich made the movie feel thrilling, stressful and over all cool. I never worried about captain Marvels safety it felt like she was constantly playing easy mode wich kinda felt boring to watch.

Hacksaw Ridge is my favorite "Christian" movie because it moved me more than any movie that's self-proclaimed to be Christian. I Can Only Imagine is probably my favorite self-proclaimed Christian movie because even though it only ended up being a surprisingly decent but still not great movie, that STILL makes it better than every one of these faith-based films.

The problem is they tear down every male character in order to prop up the female protagonist. In She-Hulk every male was a creep, perv, moron etc. They even tore down Hulk!!!

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Very true, and it just shows how weak the writing is. They didn't have the skills to write a good character so they lazily used a comparison to bad characters

@323johnnybravo

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 Agreed. Edge of Tomorrow , Kill Bill , Aliens , Devil wears Prada lol All awesome strong woman, competent writing and story telling go a long way.

@thefanwithoutaface8105

Жыл бұрын

Too be fair with Mark Ruffalo being such a boot licking Ally to all this woke crap, is it really any shock he's let his character because such a pansy.

I think a really good comparison would be to ask these folks who’s movies they like: Bruce Willis’ “Die Hard” or whatever Steven Seagal schlock movie (yeah I know my bias is showing). Because these are all Steven Seagal shows and movies where the main characters either are OP, never take damage, do and say everything right. Hell even Superman has all these struggles he goes through. Despite having all his powers he can’t save everyone.

What did you think about the barbie movie which also had a lot of messages put into the movie. Dispite that I still found it entertaining. I would like to know whaat you think.

@gregowen2022

11 ай бұрын

I'm interested to see it, but haven't had the chance yet. Based on what I've seen, it doesn't seem to know what it wants to say, the messaging is all over the map. That's either due to inept writing, OR maybe it's genius because the movie is like a rorschach test for how we see the world. I'm interested to find out

That's right it's about "THE MESSAGE" 😆🤣

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I can't read it without hearing The Drinker echoing the words, lol

Take Riley from Aliens, she wasn’t perfect. Riley cried, screamed, got overwhelmed by the Alien. She couldn’t overpower the Alien physically, but she did with her intelligence. She made it so I wanted her to win. Already being the hero with all the wonderful powers is boring. Seeing someone (male or female) already have everything-it’s boring.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right. How can I root for a character that has nowhere to grow? It's definitely boring

"he doesn't even bleed in this movie" says he while showing video where Arnold is clearly bleeding from several places where bullets grazed him, albeit lightly :) But yeah I get your point. Commando is an awesome movie, precisely because it is so unashamedly over the top full on macho :)

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Hahaha, definitely should have edited that better

@xxxaragon

Жыл бұрын

"because it is so unashamedly over the top full on macho :)" which is why I disagree about his point about "Commando" merely have an "subconscious" message. in contrast, I think it's pretty upfront about certain political/social ideas. but I also don't think that's +necessarily+ a bad thing. well-written (well-acted, well-produced... ) stories can be compelling no matter the subject matter. e.g. a Chinese movie spouting government propaganda doesn't IN ITSELF make it a bad film.

Also The Cast and Director of Commando didn't attack the fans for not liking their movie .

Another point is the demonisation of criticism. You can dislike Commando and nobody cares. If you dislike She-Hulk, you are automatically branded a misogynist. Regarding the "you would like it if it was a man" insinuation - that is just wrong. There are enough mainstream male protagonist action movies that were not well received. The hulk movies were not a great success, Ironman 2 was mediocre, Thor 1 & 2 were sluggish. The difference being, Hulk, Ironman and Thor were improved, resulting in fan favorite movies (Avengers, Thor 3). The good thing back then was that the sudios understood why the movies needed to improve. Some IPs were even abandoned for over a decade (looking at you Green Lantern). And yeah, Batman vs. Superman was bad.

Commando is awesome 👍👍👍👍 as a kid in the 80's I loved it and still do i watch my DVD of it multiple times a year

GREAT GREG OMEN VIDEO 😉👍💪😊🔥🔥🔥

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thank you 🙌

I went to seminary. We had a saying in seminary; if you’re gonna make a Catholic movie or even a Christian movie, make sure the director is an atheist.

Also in defence of Commando Cindy did Save John once in the film with a rocket launcher me and my Dad thought wow Hollywood really did forget how the 90’s never disrespected Women at that time also She-Hulk she had a background that the fans wanted to she her in like her sexuality appeal in the comics

Star Trek (older series, not the woke stuff) would very typically have a message and it didn't interfere with the writing. That message was typically very humanist. It didn't make a race or sex the bad guys. She-Hulk was bad for a different reason. It was lazy and it sucked and in the last episode, as if this absolves it of sucking, they admit it sucks. Well, that didn't absolve it.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Very true, and I don't like that progressives have claimed the mantle of humanism. Roddenberry's vision of peaceful coexistant humanity is a far cry from the current political left, who are actively and angrily separating people based on skin color and what's in their pants

Great video.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much!

I'm glad someone else thought that Batman vs Superman was a bad movie. I loved the actors.. I would have LOVED to see Henry Cavilll actually play Superman in something that was, also, a great movie. Man of Steel was decent in the first half but in the second half it was like watching a particularly disappointing computer Game. I felt cheated. I wanted to watch more getting to know Superman and less of buildings being knocked down. Somewhere in Batman VS Superman.... Batman, who is supposed to be this incredible, profound detective says something to the effect that is there is even '1% chance of Superman being a threat, Superman must die'. And then, with Superman in his coffin he says he 'failed him!" he didn't fail Superman, he betrayed Superman. He was judge, jury and executioner .... all through that awful movie I felt like They (the writers) made Batman look like the worse of all the foes of Superman. The y made Batman/Bruce Wayne look like a sociopathic, insane jerk. The Batman is too great a Character to be portrayed in that fashion. That was premeditated murder and the only reason he failed was "Martha" ! What disappoints me most about this era of movies, is they think if they throw enough glittering lights and explosions our way we won't notice the dirt poor plot and brainless characters they have created. On the subject of Women heroines, A good heroine is challenging to portray, especially, if she is supposed to be an action hero, besides. A woman can draw a sword, just make her also a complex character who is more than an 'action doll'! A woman who can both carry a sword and be a woman has to be a VERY exceptional and amazing human being. Don't give a woman all the worse traits of humanity and males and then claim she's a fantastic modern woman. Corruption is an ugly dress for a woman to wear.

as a comic book artist working on my first comic i would say the protagonist of my story is a female but that does not matter to the story at all because that isn't the point of it lmao. you should have the intention of making an entertaining story over lecturing the audience on what they should think. i also kind of slightly disagree with the message thing because there are good stories with a message to give like with district 9 and segregation. you just need to understand how to write a good story and base the characters and writing around the message. another good story with a message i would think is American history x and it has a message about racism. the reason these 2 stories are good is because the story and the message are connected with one another. she hulk fails because the story is about law but the message is dunking on sexist internet trolls, 2 things that have nothing to do with each other and the fact the characters and writing are just bad.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I hope your comic does amazingly well! You're right, the story being first is paramount. A message can enhance and deepen a story if it's a supporting character, not hogging the spotlight

@joshcrackedboooi2392

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 definitely, also thanks! I'm certain it will somewhat go super well!

BVS is entertaining af. If you fast forward all the talking and go straight too the fights, which I do every time.

This is all true. Just subscribed to watch more.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, I'm glad you liked it!

The writers for She-Hulk thought it was a shoe-in since it was A) a Marvel property, B) a super-hero Ally McBeal. It had potential to be decent. The She-Hulk comics were entertaining. Had the "creative" team done their homework on the lore, they would have had a hit on their hands.

In other words, the “strong female characters” that are the equivalent of Commando are the likes of (early) Lara Croft. 😁 They weren’t there to make a statement, they were just there for entertainment.

A film or tv programme can have a message and entertain. The trick is not to let the message subsume the entertainment. Most of the time we just accept the message, because it is something we already understand as normal, eg Nazis are bad. Other messages stick out like a sore thumb and, as you say, annoy us so that we can no longer enjoy the film or programme itself.

What about The Constant Gardener?

Good video. I would also like to say that I thought "Bruce Almighty" was a great christian/God movie too

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

It absolutely is, but I have to skip a part with the kids. I can only imagine... "Dad, why is he waving toward the bathroom? What is happening to her? is she ok?" I don't want to explain this

@Yogy19

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 Lol ok, I understand

For your point about BvS, didn't civil war do the same thing ? They set up this condlict between Iron Man and Captain America, then forgot to write the rest of it, for all the funny cameos and Thanos ?

I did my own little argument reversal as you were talking about how movies with the goal of a message are always terrible, and hilariously to me I did it seconds before you brought up Kirk Cameron movies. I love Jesus and the Gospel message, but movies made with communicating that message are almost NEVER entertaining. With the exception of Prince of Egypt, but I feel like that is because the people adapting it wanted to make a good movie first and correctly assumed the message would be conveyed by the material

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Hahaha, I love that we went the same direction. I love Kirk, but he's a perfect example of why the gospel is not entertainment. Yeah, Prince of Egypt was great because it stayed to the story and let it speak for itself. Such a good movie

I don't think that messages can't work in media. I think the real issue is when they "beat you over the head with it", so to speak. I remember watching a video by the Theologian Michael Jones (InspiringPhilosophy on KZread) about a lot of Christian movies being bad, and what separates bad Christian media from good. Lord of The Rings (the books and Peter Jackson trilogy) was brought up as an example of Christian themes done well since anyone can enjoy it without being talked down to or preached at. It has messages, but they're subtle and handled maturely as opposed to She-Hulk being the antithesis of subtlety.

Preach

Missed opportunity to include the line from Gladiator...you know the one

@petery6432

4 ай бұрын

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!

Kate Beckinsale and Mila Jovovich are great female action stars!

Is there any serie with a Strong Female character which doesn't fail? (I can only think in Anime/Manga examples)

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Nothing in the last 15 years, I think. Not since the political winds caused writers to make women basically men.

1:52 It just gets me every time man. Every single time! xD xD

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Such a weird little trot he does! My personal favorite is the bad guy doing the full 360 spin and firing into the air as he goes down

@donaldhysa4836

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 That is actually pretty common in the action movies at the time. Bad guys just keep firing as they go down in a last blaze of glory I guess

Like just for the Kirk Cameron take!

great female character ----> Alita

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

That's an anime thing, right? The one they made a movie about? I don't know much about it, what's great about her?

@sharosecomics7793

8 ай бұрын

@@gregowen2022She’s a compelling character. I haven’t seen it or read the manga in awhile but she’s incredibly resilient even after losing everything. An interesting contrast of a living, feeling girl who is also designed to be a ruthless killing machine (cyborg).

They think by bashing men that makes them strong but just shows their characters are entitled, insecure, and bullies

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Right. It's a terrible way to try to show strength and just makes them actually seem weaker

When you say books can have messages, but films are for entertainment, the obvious question is what about films that are based on books? 😂 Trick question. *All* profound stories that resonate with people do so because they have some form of message. Even if it’s very paint-by-numbers “good vs. evil” stuff, as you mentioned, this relies on tried and tested notions of good and evil that evolved over the centuries. The question is merely how much you show this message vs. how much you tell people about it (something every writer has heard about: show, don’t tell). The twist is that “don’t tell” also includes your marketing. If you tell people about your message, it’s kind of like a comedian having to explain their jokes. Or like a magician explaining how their tricks work. If one seeks to subvert conventional notions of good and bad, you can’t just beat your audience over the head with it. Like in any type of “change management”, you need to take the steps “unfreeze, move, refreeze”. Meaning, first you have to raise the question of whether our current notions of good and bad are accurate. One common way to do this is the “Are we the baddies?” trope. Then you can use the plot to redefine good and evil over the course of the story, and end the story by setting in stone a new understanding of good and evil. However, in order to do this, you need character development, and for that, you need protagonists who are allowed to start out *being wrong about something.* For example, if you wanted to write a really political piece, you could have a protagonist be some progressive activist, with her understanding of good and evil being “left good, right bad”. And over the course of the story, she watches her own peers do things that go against her inner moral compass. At the end, her definition of good and evil gets shifted to “liberal good, authoritarian bad”. With that attitude, she will win some new allies on the libertarian right, and lose some allies in the authoritarian left. Activist writers however don’t seem to be capable of that, by and large. They can’t allow their characters to be wrong; in order for their heroes to be “virtuous”, they have to be paragons, already starting out believing “the right thing”. The only well-written woke show I’ve seen so far is The Boys. In fact, most of its fans don’t even seem to realise how woke it is. When you listen to the writers in making-of videos and interviews, you quickly realise they’re about as woke as everyone around them in Hollywood. But in contrast to everyone around them, they still put the story and the characters first, the activism second.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

well, you're spot on there. A good story raises questions, even if they seem to be obvious because of the way they are framed. She hulk already assumed many things and assumed we all agreed. No questions were ever asked or answered. No wonder it was so boring. The Boys is a great example. The wokeness is there if you squint, but the story and presentation are so important to the team that the message was only able to barely shine through. Also, it asked other interesting questions that distracted from their political leanings. It's hard to believe that the same company produced it and Wheel of Time/Rings of Power.

Good talk

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

This is why I won't go to the movies nowadays. I want entertainment, not lectures. I don't want to spend 12 bucks and two hours of my life to be preached at, or belittled, or both. I have gift cards for the local theater that are 4 years old! Every film these days are agenda pictures. Why Hollywood thinks the whole "Women are awesome! Men are useless" trope is a good idea? Do they think that as a man, that I am suddenly going to buy into with this? "Give us your money and enjoy us insulting you!" Umm... Not a chance. Enjoy bankruptcy, Hollywood.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

You're 100% correct and I think more and more people are feeling that way.

@nyetzdyec3391

Жыл бұрын

They expect us to take it... and a lot of us DO... which is a large part of the problem.

@thefanwithoutaface8105

Жыл бұрын

Why do you think Manga is kicking Western Comics ass all over the place. They focus on making good content and don't care about politics.

I guess you should see The Chosen, entertaining and entirely a message. Ten Commandments as well

@minilla3842

Жыл бұрын

Those are awesome.

2:05 Obvious reason is Comando is old, and She-Hulk is new.

Genuine question here (granted, if this is still your take after 2 years): What is your definition of entertainment if something that is "life-changing" or "powerful," like the Gospel, does not fit the criteria?

To Save a Life, The Mission, Blackrobe, the APostle and even Passion were decent, but most of the time I feel hellbound for feeling so cringe because faith based films are just a whole other can of worms.

The only thing I disagree with is that I think you can have a message in the movie, even and overt one, but even in that situation you need some degree of SUBTLTY. Seriously, fucking Spike Lee is more subtle than half of these directors, which is just sad.

I have heard of she hulk but I probably will never see it lol. The drinker sent shit on the show. He has valid points.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

You should keep it that way and never waste your time on it. I feel like Disney owes me something just for sitting through an episode

Gattica is an obvious cautionary tale about genetic manipulation and meddling too much with nature. But it's also an interesting story with a beginnin, middle, and end. The motivations of the characters make sense and the audience can connect with how the protagonist would feel. That's an example of putting a message into a movie that is stupid - unlike all this social justice stuff.

I always thought she Hulk was a spoof or comedy not a serious super hero flick

What about Catwoman and Elektra?

I actually enjoyed fireproof a lot.

Clear cut make sense..✌️

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate you watching!