Once Tolkien was reading his work at an Inklings meeting and someone shouted out ""Not another ducking Elf!"

I read Lewis as a boy of 9 and Tolkien as a boy of 15. The Chronicles made it possible for me to read The Lord of the Rings. Now at 58 I have to confess that Lewis’s writing moves me more deeply

@SacGeoTV

3 ай бұрын

Ditto, Ditto, and Ditto (I’m closer to 56 🥂)

@FARP1964

2 ай бұрын

I love both works for different reasons. Tolkien created a superb fantasy epic. Lewis created a theological treatise in fantasy form. I must confess I owe a lot of my spiritual theology in prayer to Lewis.

I’ve been under the apprehension that Mr Tolkien wrote for a more adult audience in “Lord of the Rings” and Mr Lewis wrote for a more adolescent audience in “Chronicles of Narnia”. There in lies the difference in style and taste.

@Rollin_L

5 ай бұрын

That seems correct to me, I would just add that I believe The Hobbit was written for children primarily, before the more adult tone of The Lord of the Rings was undertaken.

@lt5456

5 ай бұрын

I don't like either. I am not even sure why they are considered Christian books

@viewsandreviews180

5 ай бұрын

@@lt5456 many years ago when I first became a Christian, discovered “Mere Christianity” and became an admirer of C.S. Lewis I was told that both “The Chronicles of Narnia” and “The Lord of the Rings” were allegories of the New Testament. With that thought in mind I read the former and reread the latter. It does change the impression of both works.

@jamesholder5613

5 ай бұрын

I don’t think that Lord of the Rings is meant to be allegorical, but Narnia definitely has clear allegorical meanings to the faith. Aslan is such a great view of Jesus, from his presence in creation in The Magician’s Nephew to his sacrifice and resurrection in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, all the way to his leading his followers in The Last Battle, it’s a pretty clear connection. Not sure how you can look at Narnia and not consider it Christian.

@moominpic

5 ай бұрын

Lewis was a Christian philosopher and there are obvious references to the New Testament (Aslan as Jesus, Eustace as St Paul, the Last Battle as the End of Days etc)

The difference is actually rather simple. Tolkein was producing Lore, a new mythology of sorts. Lewis just wanted to tell a fantastic story. Both succeeded.

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

Lewis also had depth to his children’s novels. Tolkien barring the Hobbit is geared towards adults.

1. The Narnian Chronicles were designed primarily for a younger audience. 2. The Narnian Chronicles are full of excellent allegories about Christianity that are relevant to both children and adults.

@donsurlylyte

5 ай бұрын

both good reasons that they arent that great compared to tolkein

@davidemmet7343

5 ай бұрын

@@donsurlylyte If something is designed for a a different audience it doesn't make it inferior, it just makes it different. By your logic you could also disparage The Lord of The Rings by comparing it to The Brothers Karamazov or War And Peace. As far as allegorical content, I think that this has always been one of Lewis's strong points and I strongly disagree.

Love both Tolkien and Lewis’ works.

The fact that Lewis couldn't care less about what Tolkein's opinion of his work was will never cease to bemuse me, no no end!

I shared Tolkien’s opinion about Narnia for the longest time- until I finally read it.

Thanks for the short, short... Very interesting!

I love the Chronicles of Narnia.

Thank you, always an interesting and provocative. perspective

I love both gentlemen authors

Tolkien described the books to one correspondent as “deservedly popular” and had no problem recommending the Narnia books to his own grandchildren, and handing them copies thereof. Holly Ordway, Tolkien’s Modern Reading: Middle-eath beyond the Middle Ages (Park Ridge, 2021), pp. 78 & 79

Great comment on all art.

I've read the Chronicles of Narnia once. I've read the Hobbit and LOTR multiple times and am now 1/3 of the way through LOTR at this moment. No desire to read Narnia again at his time.

I read the Chronicles of Narnia and I considered it classic of spiritual way of looking at it. And I’ve read his trilogy books two of the space trilogy set and he was very good of writings spiritual and it was excellent.

It would have been great to have Dr. Birzer in on this conversation...

Where can I buy new copies of original editions?

I read Narnia around 10 years old and reread in College- LOTR in high school and again in College. One is a private work of personal passion, the other a work intended for public consumption with an audience in mind. I much prefer LOTR if only because works of its purpose are so rare; almost impossible to find really.

I want to know more about Tolkien's evaluation of Lewis' novels.

much of appreciation of Lewis' work is based on the movies, I think. I loved both series, but only read Tolkien.

I enjoy both. Different audiences and different writing styles. Tolkien had written a whole universe before he wrote Lord of the Rings. He ceated a new mythos. Lewis used things in seemingly simpler ways and much like we would expect these mythic creatures to be.

14th, 15 December 2023

The Chronicles of Narnia are for a younger audience than The Lord of the Rings. Tolkien may have had a point though, the Narnia books ARE a little all over the place. Different characters, and times in each story.

@rouninpanda6318

5 ай бұрын

It's been awhile since I read them. The massive time jumps didn't help with keeping up with any continuity. When the kids return to Narnia in Prince Caspian, it's a totally different world than The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. I was confused where the humans in Narnia came from, because weren't the kids the only humans in "Lion", not counting the Witch who I think is later revealed to be a giant from another world in "Nephew".

Please correct me if this is just a small clip of a larger conversation but how can you have this discussion without mentioning Tolkien’s dislike of blatant allegories in fiction.

never been able to take narnia.

It is a struggle to stay subscribed to this channel. Every time I watch a video and check my subscription status, I am not subscribed. I have to resubscribe every time I watch a video.

Tolkien and Lewis both wrote of worlds based on folklore and mythology of dubious origin. Elves, trolls, fauns, and dragons are all stitched into the European consciousness, and it's impossible to know where they really come from. Tolkien however, dismissed the intrinsic _whimsy_ in these things. The elves who made shoes for the cobbler, the witch who enticed children with a house of candy and cake, purely silly inventions to capture the attention of children, but there's a great value in that. Tolkien's work takes stories and fables for children and "de-childs" them, and that pleases grownup children who want to believe that fairy tales are very serious business. Lewis' fanciful trappings around Narnia are the spoonful of sugar that gets serious moral principles into the minds of young people, or any reader. As an example, the talking trees are not important, the consequences of betraying your family for Turkish Delight, are.

@michaelsills8038

5 ай бұрын

I loved this comment :)

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

I think your comment is way off the mark. What makes you think elves and dwarfs are for children?

@trublgrl

4 ай бұрын

@@Art-is-craft The fact that people grow up and stop believing in elves and dwarves?

@michaelsills8038

4 ай бұрын

@@Art-is-craft The man you replied to is not saying they don't have intrinsic value, just that they needed to be re-contextualized for our more mature sensibilities!

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

@@trublgrl Elves and dwarves are supernatural concepts like ghosts, demons and angels. Again what makes you think these are children’s concepts.

I think the inner constancy of reality that Tolkien didn't like its misleading to truth.

The chronicles of Narnia must be taken as a fairy tale book. But not any fairy tale: the ones written by the grimm brothers, but in thr XX century. Narnia is great, if you read it in a relaxed way.

Also Tolkien is my favorite South park character 😂

If both of them wrote the same, or thought the same, then one of them would not have been necessary to either their friendship or the world of literature!

The Lord told me NOT to let my children watch NARNIA when our church was going to show it at the youth group. I never saw it and will never.

The Elephant, in the room, was that I am God.

I kind of agree with Tolkien… Narnia is still good though,maybe not as good as LOTRs ,but still good.

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

It is equally as good as lord of the rings but context is important.

@JSomerled

4 ай бұрын

@@Art-is-craft I believe the depth of character creation alone sets LOTR way beyond

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

@@JSomerled The Narnia series has a child’s innocence playing out in a very adult set of conditions. When you view it through the lens of childhood the story that plays out are much richer than people realise. They are not as shallow as people would believe. LOTR of the Rings deep complexities are clearly on display but in Narnia it has to be earned. Two different approaches.

@JSomerled

4 ай бұрын

@@Art-is-craft I can agree with that.. Narnia , through a child’s eye is good. Probably why it’s a best seller children’s book.

Narnia is a GREAT series -- for children. But as an adult, I find it boring because it is so juvenile. The Lord of the Rings, on the other hand, is still interesting when read as an adult. The word that best describes Narnia is pablum. It's the intellectual equivalent of baby food. Tolkien (except The Hobbit) is red meat.

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

Narnia is beautiful and most certainly resonates with children as it involves children.

@CCoburn3

4 ай бұрын

@@Art-is-craft Sure. But there are many books that involve children that are not “children’s books.” The Narnia books are “children’s books.”

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

@@CCoburn3 They are not boring if you can use your imagination to see it from a child’s point of view. The books have an innocence to them in a very serious story.

@CCoburn3

4 ай бұрын

@@Art-is-craft They may not be boring to you, but I find them terribly tedious. Tastes vary. But there is no denying that Narnia was written for children. And as children's books, they do a great job telling an important story. But that doesn't mean that they are going to be appealing to adults. Adults are not the target audience. Narnia is like the old Disney cartoons with Mickey and Goofy. Kids LOVE them. But adults usually have outgrown them. The Lord of the Rings, on the other hand, are like the Warner Brothers cartoons. Kids like them, but don't get all the allusions. Adults understand them and like them even more than they did when they were children. Basically, there's more to them than the Disney cartoons. Disney (and Narnia) are one-dimensional. But the Warner Brothers (and LOTR) are multidimensional and much more complex.

One is still popular the other dead and canceled

It was a bet between the 2 while at the Dirty Duck pub in Oxford who could write the best Christian allegory (Tolkien converted Lewis to Christianity). Altho Lewis's work is definitely a Christian allegory, no one can tell that when they read Tolkien. Maybe that is why Tolkien does not like 'Chronicles of Narnia' as Lewis obviously won the bet. Nobody associates Tolkein's work with Christianity. End of story. Maybe the 'expert' here does not know the origins of these tales so his opinions are total bs.

Much like Chopin and Liszt.. or Schumann and Chopin.. or anybody practically, and Chopin.. he detested 95% of music in his time.. only John Field, Rossini, Schubert, Mozart and Bach made the cut, practically..

I've never read either. Wasn't Tolkien an atheist and Lewis a Christian?

@railsplitters79

4 ай бұрын

No Tolkien was not an atheist. He was a Christian. In fact Lewis credits Tolkien as being highly influential in lewis’ return to Christianity after years of atheism.

The books are quite weak.

Please get rid of the huge, distracting, and annoying Hillsdale College microphone advertisements display. It only track from otherwise excellent content and cheapens the whole atmosphere of the videos.

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

No body else cares

The Narnia Chronicles are awful books; very badly written like many of the books by Lewis. Only Christians laud them for entirely the wrong reasons.

@Art-is-craft

4 ай бұрын

Only atheists get obsessed to the point that they feel the need to go after children’s books.

The ChroniWHAcles of Narnia. Sorry.

The Lord of the Rings is definitely designed for a more mature audience . And, as much as that is true, Narnia can be a better place sometimes, than a working environment, for instance… there is a profound and philosophical phrase that says : “ F… this S… I’m going to Narnia “ … and off it goes a little girl carrying her luggage to the nearest closet ! Escape ? Can’t blame her ; work environment can be a stressful pace … 😶‍🌫️😐🫤….. …….🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sooo we shouldn’t trust critics and do the work ourselves? 🤔🥸😎