What a nice thing to see after buying a WD NAS drive.

@trash3570

4 жыл бұрын

gg better luck next time

@hkalisvaart

4 жыл бұрын

www.tomshardware.com/news/wd-lists-all-drives-slower-smr-techNOLOGY what size did you get?

@grelymolycremp7838

4 жыл бұрын

F

@joshuabran4646

4 жыл бұрын

And deploying a NAS Server with 20 of them :D

@gouveia00

4 жыл бұрын

@@hkalisvaart mine is a 3.5" 3TB WD Red. I haven't noticed any slow downs, but still, it's awful to see that they don't market the product right. To be honest I'm coming from a 3TB WD Blue (that fried itself after 3 years). Well, time to try to refund this bitch.

Other hard drives: whispers sweet nothings into their owner's ears. My hard drive: *REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.*

@Creepercreep10

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah dude I had to switch to ssd lmao

@tjl2836

4 жыл бұрын

all my hard drives broke :(

@Real28

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you need to back that up LOL

@Medieva1

4 жыл бұрын

TJ L THEN YOU BETTER GO CATCH IT

@autresvoixx

4 жыл бұрын

sad but true

THERE ARE NEARBY SHINGLES IN YOUR AREA. me who bought a wd drive: ah *shit*

@pranayc94

3 жыл бұрын

loooooooooool......

I’m waiting for Linus to say “this video is brought to you by seagate”

@kokoleka808

3 жыл бұрын

I'll always stick with Hitachi.

@charleshines6155

3 жыл бұрын

@@kokoleka808 I had a Hitaci drive in one of my laptops. Since then I have upgraded from it for more capacity. The Hitachi is now in a USB enclosure.

@goldfate2592

3 жыл бұрын

@@kokoleka808 hitachi huchiha

@H4n_uL

3 жыл бұрын

HGST

@itchytastyurr

3 жыл бұрын

those drives are kinda clicky- but got one and still works while a 2tb portible drive died on me without explanation- maybe i dropped it but i don't recall...

Linus: "Imagine having to rewrite an entire paragraph just to change a word"... Typewriters: "Hold my ink..."

@bloodgain

3 жыл бұрын

Actually, even typists had in-place correction figured out a long time ago. But I had this awful History teacher (the kind of guy that called everybody "hoss" and "sport" and used only last names, but without the politeness of Mr. and Miss) who would make us hand-write and then type our essays in 6th and 7th grade. If we made any mistakes while typing, which of course none of us were practiced at in 1993, we had to start the page over from scratch. Of course, computers already existed, and the school even had some, so this was a stupid, pointless exercise. Walmart even sold standalone word processors at the time that were the size of a standard typewriter (and oh how I longed for one during those assignments). I was the primary computer lab assistant and lived within eyesight of the school. I don't know why I didn't think to ask permission to type my essays on the school computers, except that maybe he had a rule against it, which would make sense with that asshole. I just had to look it up, but I think that old bastard is still kickin'. I found a 50 year wedding anniversary posting but no obituary in the local newspaper.

@Vlad-1986

3 жыл бұрын

Nah, sod it. I am more of the "backspace and smash the correct character till the paper bleeds" kind of person.

@MrPopo-vr9gw

3 жыл бұрын

Thats a good analogy

@bigbob5103

3 жыл бұрын

bloodgain when did I ask?

@shaun1243

3 жыл бұрын

@@bloodgain this was an interesting read - sorry that your teacher wasn't all that great my man.

Me: Phew, glad I went with Seagate for my nas Linus: Seagate and Toshiba also sold unlabeled smr drives Me: stops breathing Linus: just not in their nas lineup WHOOOO, MAN, WHAT A RIDE 😂

@solidsnakeandgrayfox

3 жыл бұрын

Lol

3 жыл бұрын

Yea they are all doing it, been a know fact for many months now. 2020 is the year all consumer drives went SMR (and some prosumer, looking at you WD Red)

@KeradSnake

3 жыл бұрын

@ how to tell the drive is SMR/ CMR if they didn't label it? And does SMR/ CMR matters not just for prosumer, but also for normal consumer?

@JAYJAY-ch4ik

3 жыл бұрын

How’s Seagate drives? Never used it for about 5 years never had a great experience with it other than a portable Seagate that’s 320gb about 10 years old still Super strong the rest Nas and barracudas all failed and with data losses. Toshiba N300 drives are awesome I have 20 x 14Tb drives running so far for 1 year now with 5 drives fail safe and also remotely duplicated and backed up to another 20 x 14 Tb HGST NAS drives which are Super expensive but Uber reliable. Hitachi drives are the only manufacturer that does not advertise but guarantee reliable. Seagate partnered with Synology and would alert you to failure what I would love to know is how’s the sound and also operations on full tilt and do you think they are better now in terms of reliability? My research always shows me 2 sides of the camp. Personally the iron wolf pro seems awesome to me since it’s cheapest of all the options.

@vanbuildit

3 жыл бұрын

seagate st4000dm004 by any chance? not NAS drives per say but SMR according to the web.. just checked my Qnap DOH 2 of the Sh*ts

I'm still wondering why a WD red 4Tb drive is still $150, 5 years later...

@arcraz5226

3 жыл бұрын

Supply and demand

@peruserprecurer1446

3 жыл бұрын

Rare-earth metals

@miscbits6399

3 жыл бұрын

"Because they CAN"

@Tpecep

3 жыл бұрын

For same reason as prices on PSU, fans etc. Price of material.

@hondacrx4909

3 жыл бұрын

In my country is more than 200€, you are cheaper, lol

This is the transparency we expect from LTT even with thier usual sponsors! Once again... WELL DONE!

@vulkunvision

Жыл бұрын

The private internet access sponsor didnt age well…

Just looked into my drive I bought from WD Model is SMR FML

@Pinak1264

3 жыл бұрын

R.I.P :(

@emerje0

3 жыл бұрын

Started to panic a bit after buying two 4TB Reds in March on sale on Newegg, but it looks like I got the good ones, WD40EFRX

@st0rm617

3 жыл бұрын

@@emerje0 Got an WD30EFRX and an WD30EZRX in my NAS.. How do you check this??

@Slavik81

3 жыл бұрын

@@st0rm617 st0rm The affected model numbers are listed here: www.hattislaw.com/cases/investigations/western-digital-lawsuit-for-shipping-slower-smr-hard-drives-including-wd-red-nas/

@romakrelian

3 жыл бұрын

The cat avatar makes this comment better.

You keep saying things like "more capacity on the cheap" as if the drive manufacturers were instantly passing some portion of the savings along to consumers when switching to SMR... when no, at least in the short term they've often been pricing the SMR drives the same as the last non-SMR drives of the same capacity in the same same series.

@DarKcS2

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah it's sadly more likely engineers concerns were ignored in favour of corporate profits

@710thcenturydigitalboy4

4 жыл бұрын

yeah no kidding, they're stealing so much value from customers with this bullshit.

@schizochicky7501

3 жыл бұрын

Straight up a KO

3 жыл бұрын

yea thats the realy big problem I have with this. SMR is bad enough, the prices tough are the same or even going up now here in sweden on 2020 SMR editions of the same 2019 PMR editions.

@Bert1268

3 жыл бұрын

Trrruuueee

Imagine copying a 10 meg file and it takes 12 seconds

@daedalus2097

3 жыл бұрын

Ah, the good old days, when 10MB was a lot of data and using floppies made 12 seconds seem like no time at all.

@petersoumanis5494

3 жыл бұрын

12 seconds? That would be crazy fast using floppies. 10MB in 12seconds is 10BaseT Ethernet fast 😎

@jaynee8581

3 жыл бұрын

I don't have to imagine that.

@daedalus2097

3 жыл бұрын

​@@petersoumanis5494 Yeah, I didn't really mean 10MB from floppies ;) I meant doing *anything* with floppies makes 12 seconds seem fast :p

@jimitsoni18

3 жыл бұрын

@@petersoumanis5494 lol it's 0.01baset

I still wont trust WD after this debacle. They labeled the DSMR drives their normal Red drives and the CMR is going to be Red Plus. So people will still accidentally buy the Red thinking its the same as the ones they used to have and not knowing that they need to buy the red plus to be the same... They should have labeled the SMR drives as Red Eco or something else..

@Astraeus..

3 жыл бұрын

There's this wonderful skill people usually have, it's called reading. When properly applied to things like sales listings for an item, as opposed to just reading the actual name and ignoring everything else, it can work wonders.

@FinalKingX

3 жыл бұрын

@@Astraeus.. It turns out that most customers buying NAS drives are corporations where they probably buy the cheapest NAS certified drives available. And I'm pretty sure the WD Red drives are cheaper than Red Plus so they will still get SMR drives.

@gt362gamer

3 жыл бұрын

@@Astraeus.. There's this wonderful skill companies should have, it's called predictability. If certains products of a certain line up have a x quality level, newer models of the same line up should be at least as good as the older models.

@bloonsfamily2066

3 жыл бұрын

or red smr

@hauntedshadowslegacy2826

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, probably should've called 'em "Red SMR" and "Red CMR". Not including the type of storage in the name is the main problem. Still, though, if the primary consumer of Red drives are companies and corporations, they should be smart enough to learn the difference between Red and Red Plus.

I became aware of the issue a few months ago when I started to run out of space in my FilServer (NAS). I looked in to WD, Seagate and Toshiba and what I found was that basically ALL "consumer" drivers or to some extent prosumer drivers like WD Red now used SMR instead of PMR/CMR from 2020 and on. For example WD blue 6Tb, 2019 edition is PMR but if you get one from 2020 it will be SMR from what I could find out. Seagate and Toshiba have done the same with there "Desktop/Personal" driver series to. But what I find rely annoying except the fact that NONE of them are marketing there slow crappy SMR drives as SMR, is the fact that the price seems unchanged at least here in Sweden theirs no better deal to be had on the 2020 models compared to the 2019 models. Like Linus sad, manufactures can get 25-50% more density out of the platters with SMR instead of PMR so that means that a 6Tb driver of 2020 model has around 20-33% less platters and heads, but the prices seems to be the same. So that means the manufacturer are pocketing the difference as a strait up profit. Now I would not be bothered if SMR drives where CLEARLY marketed as SMR, like Seagate Archive series, where it was clearly stated they are best suited for single drive use (no raid) and just to store data in a linear fashion. For many of my uses that would be fine and a nice cost saving if I could get like 25% off the price. But no it seems as if WD, Seagate and Toshiba, basically all of the manufactures decided at the same time to rip off all there consumers by selling SMR drives under the same Make and Model as before. I ended up getting the old Toshiba N300 8Tb Drives, have one and as fare as I could tell they are not SMR as of yet and they Cost a lot less then WD now PMR ONLY drives. But my faith in any Hard drive manufacturer is now damaged and ANY new drive purchase will be investigated thoroughly to make SURE I dont get SMR crap for the price of PMR! They should all be sued and pay back the money they ripped consumers of that expected to get the "same" or better drive performance of 2019 models in 2020. NO ONE in the right mind expects a 2020 revision of the same drive to be WORSE in pretty much ever aspect! No shame on you HDD manufactures! SSD's are taking over and this is how you deiced to milk and exploit those that still need HDD's for mass storage?

@suhdude9775

3 жыл бұрын

Is this copy-paste from an entire book?

@horusreloaded6387

3 жыл бұрын

A small heads up: if you get 50% more efficient, that doesnt mean you can get the same result with half of the work. 50% more of 100 is 150 but 50% more of 50 is 75.

3 жыл бұрын

@@horusreloaded6387 Yes very true. Classic error by me there :P The only way to know how many heads and platters they use is to open up a 2019 PMR driver and the 2020 SMR equivalent and count them, that would tell us maybe what the cost savings are. But the fact remains, they are saving on cost and converting that strait to profit, the consumer is not getting a price reduction.

@miscbits6399

3 жыл бұрын

You came late to the party. Until Chris Mellor and I got the ball rolling none of the makers would _ADMIT_ they were using SMR in small drives and explicitly refused to tell customers Imagine putting 3 * 4TB REDs in your RAIDZ3 array to replace aging drives hitting 60,000 hour power-on time and having this happen which is what happened to me, then WD tried to claim they weren't SMR drives, then they tried to claim that I was doing RAID wrong.....

@horusreloaded6387

3 жыл бұрын

@ dont get me wrong, i was just pointing a small error to fix on an otherwise good comment

Imagine getting a ASMR drive, at least its quiet

@UltraNoobian

3 жыл бұрын

*whisper* I'm writing your data to disk very gently.

@chode009

3 жыл бұрын

"I'm looking for a hard drive for war"

@roebbiej

3 жыл бұрын

It's free real estate

@Wo-Lad

3 жыл бұрын

@@roebbiej i can't xddddd

@yodaddy1

3 жыл бұрын

Wait until it whispers "just let it happen" and you realize that you're actually in prison.

Imagine if you had to change a word in a paragraph... I remember not knowing how to turn insert key off thanks.

Just found out the 4TB Seagate drives I use to work on client wedding photo albums are SMR. I will be getting in touch with Seagate me thinks...

HDD manufacturer using SMR without telling us? SMH..

@08DrAke08

4 жыл бұрын

I see what you did there...

@Erksah68

4 жыл бұрын

Literally a joke. You pay so much and they juke you.

@_jack_ryan_9764

4 жыл бұрын

Haha. Comedy

@swordcrafted

4 жыл бұрын

the first

@honoredshadow1975

4 жыл бұрын

Glad you got first and didn't even mention it like a boss. This is the way it should be :)

Engineers: "Don't do this." Exectuives: "But we can save money and make more profit. Do it!"

@happygimp0

3 жыл бұрын

Yes. This always happens. I say we should not use the thing i just made for a demo in a productive environment. They use it anyway, they later cry that the data is not there and they need to make everything again and then they blame me and i have to find a way to solve the problem they created. So annoying.

@TechyBen

3 жыл бұрын

"Communication breakdown". Is this like "Surprise mechanics"?

@Destide

3 жыл бұрын

Marketing we did it last week

@Hrafnskald

3 жыл бұрын

Hence the lawsuit. Legal penalties educate Executives and incentivize compliance with disclosure standards :)

@mechamicro

3 жыл бұрын

You get what you got, cheap and slow. While expensive qnd fast

How do you get WD to swap out your drives with a CMR? I can already tell you if I call them I will get some dude in a foreign country that has no clue what I am talking about.

@sto2779

3 жыл бұрын

facts

@glytchd

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, i know the experience. Back in the day, I'd handle RMAs and things for my Datacenter. i'd get a call center here in the states. It made the process so much smoother. Even when they didn't know what you were talking about, they would usually connect me to the right department.

Sean Connery : "Shingles you shay" I'll see myself out.

@crazywilly85

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂👌

@SupremeNerd

3 жыл бұрын

LMAO that was random af

@MarkoVukovic0

3 жыл бұрын

Well played, shir oversheer :D

@TASLundy

3 жыл бұрын

"I'll take, "'Things your Mother gave you" for $400, Trebek"

@dannyc7839

3 жыл бұрын

You're the man now, Dawg!

About a year ago, it took me sooo much time to figure out why my new HDDs write speed suddenly dropped to ~150kB/s after writing about 10% of their capacity. After a lot of tests, guesswork and searching for vague symptoms online, I realised they were unlabeled SMR drives. I'm really happy those companies don't get away easily with hiding vital information about their products.

Me: Hey I just bought a 2TB Seagate drive and thought that I could get about the same if not better performance as the 1TB Seagate drive I bought 4 years ago. Seagate: You thought *_WRONG!_*

@Aereto

4 жыл бұрын

Seagate drives in a nutshell: Dead.

@jack.h99

4 жыл бұрын

@@Aereto yeah, I think I'm on team SSD for the forseeable future

@TheXlen

4 жыл бұрын

@@Aereto Actually in my experience WD dies a lot more and Toshiba doesn't die unless you do something idiotic to it.

@TheXlen

4 жыл бұрын

@@jack.h99 SSDs are only the way to go if you don't need large size drives.

@Septianernanto7

4 жыл бұрын

Same here my 1TB Seagate HDD last longer (in days and Data transfer) than my 2TB drive

YOU JUST MADE MY DAY! I had this exact issue and I can't tell you how many hours I've searched online for answers. My WD 4 bay NAS took SEVERAL DAYS to upgrade from a 2 drive mirror to a 4 drive RAID5. Not only that, but it also explains why i randomly hear it running with nobody connected. All 4 drives are 6TB WD Red! What a waste of my time! Thank you for sharing!

8:23 Thanks for helping me confirm that my WD Red Pros are CMR drives!

Me: *looks at my WD black 2TB* "that'll do pig, that'll do."

@namyun2743

3 жыл бұрын

If it's a 2.5" drive, chances are, it's SMR. Might want to check your drive against their list of SMR drives.

@TheFourthWinchester

3 жыл бұрын

Even one Western Digital Black is SMR. They are scamming everyone in all colours.

@fredfinks

3 жыл бұрын

Its the notebook 2.5" drives only affected. No farking way in hell a 3.5 black is smr. Blacks are superb drives. After many, many years Ive finally bid them farewell though as 6TB aint enough (remember Raptors?). Got 2x HGST/WD HC520 12TB. They datacenter drive (no more consumer HDDs for me). Fine for normal home pc use (non-NAS/raid). If getting datacentre drives, be sure to get the model versions without power disable. READ the spec & info sheets on company site to ensure. Power disable is a datacenter feature and cause compatibility issues with standard home pcs. You see a lot of bad reviews with datacentre drives because people bought the wrong model. Only buy from stores / sites that list specific full model number. BH Photo is a good one, ive imported from. Trust them way higher than newegg for example. (not that newegg is bad)

@zeratulrus142

3 жыл бұрын

Imagine having more than 1TB of storage

@NoobGyver

3 жыл бұрын

Got a wd red 2 tb can relate

Hadn't even known CMR/SMR was a thing to consider. Aaaaand now I know to check before i upgrade my HDDs. Thanks!

@CataclysmZA

3 жыл бұрын

What's worse is that the firmware is also different between the two drives. They might both be Reds, but the SMR drive may take more, or less time to quite an attempt at recovering a bad sector, while the CMR drive would probably drop a bad read and send out a SMART error that the data integrity is not guaranteed.

@wyterabitt2149

3 жыл бұрын

Unless you are using the affected NAS scenarios, the chances of you noticing anything other than having to pay more by avoiding smr is tiny. It does have a small performance hit, but outside of the NAS scenarios there are not many situations you should be using conventional hard drives if performance matters.

@_Aarius_

3 жыл бұрын

@@wyterabitt2149 thats true, but i didn't say its be the biggest consideration - just that it would BE considered. If the price difference between smr and cmr dives of the same capacity was small, i'd probably pay more for cmr for that bit of performance and suitability for a nas if i decide to repurpose later. if it was a big price difference for my main bulk media storage? id probs go smr

After interviewing an engineer from WD, yeah that company is stuck with young blood without the huge experience of the elder engineers retiring or being retired. It's literally an HR problem where too many engineers were removed at one time and so you end up with lots of engineers hired at the same time and so many engineers retiring at the same time. I was taken back by the interview, expecting so much more from a senior engineer.

When I recently bought a couple more WD Red drives to add to my array, I noticed there were newer cheaper models, and thought I was overly paranoid buying the older models still available, justifying it on aesthetics. I'm so glad that saved me from SMR.

Did he literally put his Rode shotg*n mic into the shot... ... just to make an ASMR joke?

@ManBearPig617x

3 жыл бұрын

Yup

@Jimmeyyyyy

3 жыл бұрын

@@ManBearPig617xIts a Sennheiser 416, a rode could never have delivered an ASMR joke that cleanly

@firstlast8869

3 жыл бұрын

Did you censor the word gun or was that KZread?

@Plane.

3 жыл бұрын

? shotgu*n

@californium-2526

3 жыл бұрын

Ah, don't I love KZread restrictions? "shotg*n"

THAT'S IT! I demand payment in the form of a 5 TB NVME SSD for every drive I own....

@thermitekitty9070

3 жыл бұрын

They'll find a way to make them for $5 each with 1mbps r/w.

Hanlon's Razor: Don't attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

@contytub

3 жыл бұрын

Well malice draws from stupidity most of the time ....

@beri4138

3 жыл бұрын

I've heard of Occam's razor, there's a Hanlon's razor too now? What's the deal with philosophy and razors??

@HarryVoyager

3 жыл бұрын

Yep. Dilbert for years...

@carlosbonmarist

3 жыл бұрын

Gaming Turkey there are actually several lmao

@alalalala57

3 жыл бұрын

@@beri4138 It started with Occam's Razor but the term razor has been adopted as a way of shaving off logical conclusions for other reasons as well.

After seeing this video I’ve been slowly replacing my WD Red SMR drives in my raid with non-SMR seagate drives and boom, my plex server doesn’t have hiccups every 30-60 minutes anymore. I’ve been scratching my head for a couple years over this. I figured I was safe buying NAS drives from WD, nope.

Linus: "I made a similar argument a few months ago." *shows baby Linus* Me: "AHHHHH PUT THAT THING AWAY"

@HeedlessDullahan

3 жыл бұрын

It’s like a completely different person.

@almostontimehero5415

3 жыл бұрын

I miss teenage Linus. Manus isn't as friendly.

I'm so glad I use older computer equipment. Now, what cassette did I leave that program on?

@juliusfucik4011

3 жыл бұрын

Just type it from the paper backup. It's quicker!

good video! Also, it might be a good idea for ZFS or such file systems to CHECK for SMR drives before RAIDing them and then warn the user. eg It can have a list of the models etc. The NAS software could also warn you based on the list. I also did not realize this until after I purchased some RED drives...

Drive manufacturers have been misleading customers for ever. I still talk to people that think a 2TB drive should be able to store 2TB of data.

@Metatr0n

3 жыл бұрын

That's not misleading. A 2 TB (Tera Byte) Drive can store 2 TB of data. The only thing is that it's not 2 TiB (Tebi Byte) of capacity. 2 TB refers to 2.000.000.000.000 Bytes That's 1.82 TiB of capacity and is exactly what all of my 2 TB drives show me. (All of them have even several hundred thousands of bytes more than 2.000.000.000.000, so the manufacturers gave me even more capacity than advertised) It's not the responsibility of the hard drive manufacturers to educate you in SI-units and their decimal and binary variations. If you ever referred to RAM capacity as e.g. 16 GB (Giga Bytes) instead of 16 GiB (Gibi Bytes), then it's basically you who misleads yourself. (And basically every Tech-KZreadr on this planet, since I never heard any of them say the correct Kibi, Mebi, Gibi or Tebi Byte variation) See the box "Multiples of Bytes" on the right side for reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte

@whygoogle5051

3 жыл бұрын

Metatr0n They did this for so long that it became a status quo as it’s been their standard practice beginning in the late 90s to measure drives “metrically”, even organizing together manufacturers to rewrite measuring metrics for computer storage. No one is going to say MebiBytes as it’s bullshit. Everyone classically understood that it was based in binary not decimal and as such meant that in the context of computing, it would be 1024 kilobytes, not 1000. I hate that they got away with this shite and that people growing up afterwards might just accept it as such despite only being a measurement pushed factitiously by storage manufacturers.

@Music-bf3vn

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Metatr0n I couldn't disagree more. while technically correct (and believe me, i've known about it all along), the reality is no OS measures in TB, it's measured in TiB. as a software engineer, i would tell you there's very good reason for that and it's called binary. there is absolutely no valid reason HD manufacturers can not represent their drives in the same units the OS uses if not to inflate their value

@Metatr0n

3 жыл бұрын

@@Music-bf3vn Just so you know, I'm in the IT business for 15 years now, I once or twice stumbled upon words like "binary". Your argument "Any OS measures in TiB" doesn't hold, since as hard drive manufacturers, they can't give a shit what OS developers do or how they represent data as. On top of that, Windows for example shows and always has shown the capacity in TiB but labels it as TB, so what should a hard drive manufacturer do about that? I don't know where you're from, maybe it's an US problem that in IT the correct binary SI-units aren't taught, I can tell you that in Germany for over 30 years, even before ISO, IEEE and IEC managed to get to a common denominator, the binary version was taught in universities. For some people it might look like a technicality but in fact, the difference between the decimal and the binary version is just as significant as the difference between grams and ounces. Historically speaking, the first ever commercially offered HDD was the IBM 350 with 50 physical platters each loaded with 50,000 sectors, each loaded with 100 characters. This capacity was advertised as "5 million characters". Then, since 1974 (not in the 90's!!!) HDD manufacturers used the decimal system to represent capacities, first time 1,000,000 (10^6) Bytes advertised as "1 Mega Byte". With floppies it even went wilder, since IBM defined the standard as 512-byte sectors while 2 sectors were labeled as "1K". Single Sided (SS) floppies with 720 sectors were advertised as "360KB" and Double Sided (DS) with 1,440 sectors as "720KB". High Density (HD) floppies were labelled as "1.44MB" which actually was a mixture of both, decimal and binary, since they had 2,880 sectors with 512 Byte each, thus had a size of "1440K" or rather 1,440 x 1,000 = 1.44 MB. Of course the correct size would have been 1,440 x 1,024 = 1,474,560 Byte = 1.47 MB or 1.41 MiB. (Which Windows has always shown as "1.41 MB"...) Thus they introduced 1024 x 1000 = 1,024,000 as a new definition of "Mega Byte". The Compact Disk for example was always advertised as "700MB" while the capacity itself is binary but the unit is decimal, since the capacity really was 700 MiB. The USB Flash Drive, like the HDD is and was always labeled in decimal. A 64 GB USB Stick is always 64,000,000,000 Byte. As you can see, historically speaking there was always a huge mess when it comes to properly distinguishing between the decimal and binary versions and right after people complain that they feel misguided by HDD manufacturers, I can't really understand the criticism towards the binary Byte, since if it was properly taught 20 years ago, there wouldn't be a whole generation struggling with understanding this mess. HDD manufacturers do everything right, they don't falsely label Tera Bytes as Tebi Bytes to inflate the advertised capacity, nor do they create their own crazy mixed up system to sell less capacity than advertised. Again, it's not the job of the HDD manufacturers to educate 16 year old's whose IT knowledge is based on 7 Linus Tech Tips videos. That's exactly why I always criticize people who claim "Even 7 year old's can build computers". Yes, they can copy your hand movements while holding a screw driver, but they don't understand what the f*** they're doing there and this constant capacity-discussions alone prove me in that point.

@taillwh

3 жыл бұрын

@@Music-bf3vn While in general I agree with the thrust of the argument that TB vs TiB is needlessly confusing, the statement that "no OS measures in TB" is simply false and shouldn't be part of the argument. Everything made by the Apple operates in base-10 (1000 bytes per KB) rather than base-2 (1024 bytes per KB). Feel free to look it up support.apple.com/en-us/HT201402

When this news started it's rounds I was very glad I bought the larger drives(luck) that were not affected. I would have been pretty ticked off and I completely understand those that want to sue. It's unfortunate however they won't really get appropriate compensation from a class action suit. Usually it's only the lawyers that win in class actions.

@mcf3778

3 жыл бұрын

thats not what erin brocovitch said

@NotAMinifig

3 жыл бұрын

iirc the class action lawsuit actually doesn't seek damages, but a permanent injunction against selling smr drives labeled for nas use. (and costs&fees)

@LMacNeill

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The lawyers will get their million$, and the people who got screwed will get a coupon worth $20 off their next WD drive purchase (limitations apply, expires in 2 weeks).

@LizardVideoDude

3 жыл бұрын

@@LMacNeill And usually, the company that screwed over their customers won't even admit any wrongdoing.

@hooptastic_hippie8522

3 жыл бұрын

@@LMacNeill lmao

Over 2 months ago I emailed WD support to inquire whether my drive was SMR or CMR/PMR, and they declined to answer

@alexandergr9856

3 жыл бұрын

Money back

@bennycop

3 жыл бұрын

So, it's SMR :)

@realazee

3 жыл бұрын

benny blanco yeah I ended up looking up the model number on forums, and it was indeed SMR

@reoencarcelado5904

Жыл бұрын

I just thought of this ("just" as-in "2 seconds ago"): [The acronym] "SMR" should stand for "Shitty-Method Recording".

11:50 Haha that table slam reaction... I love it when they keep stuff like that in.

I'm honestly surprised how well WD still does despite its numerous scandals and the SSD competition. Thanks for the heads-up!

2:38 I love the fact that someone's job at Linus Media Group was to write this text. Amazing company

I legitimately enjoy watching Linus advertise the store in the most inconvenient times, it makes my day

@blackout2able

3 жыл бұрын

no

@namename-zu8uk

3 жыл бұрын

@RITA - F U С К М Е !!!!! OPEN MY CANAL !!! ok

@akshaypendyala

3 жыл бұрын

@@namename-zu8uk dude you ok? 😂

Thanks for posting this. I just bought 3x 8tb seagate drives, about a month ago, and was using it on my linux desktop in RAID5. When I watched this, I was in the middle of a multi-day reshape of the array, and was trying to debug performance. I had no idea! I was able to return all 3 and bought 3x Exos 14TB drives.

I'm so glad you're around LInus, telling us the stuff we need to know to navigate the minefield of computing safely!

What a good thing to see when i just got notified that my WD Blue has just been shipped

@smurfendrek4791

3 жыл бұрын

Wd blues aren't affected afaik and you probably wouldn't notice for your use cases anyways

@TheFourthWinchester

3 жыл бұрын

@@smurfendrek4791 Wrong. WD Blue has plenty of SMR drives.

@sKanteii

3 жыл бұрын

@@smurfendrek4791 WD20EZAZ is affected

Im pretty sure someone in their management thought oh my, this technology is cheap, lets just use it and undercut our opposition and MAKE MORE MONEY.

@nishantrajani7372

4 жыл бұрын

Isn't that like every management ever? They never listen to their staff and then blame everyone for their mistakes

@32gigs96

3 жыл бұрын

Joe Al pretty sure upper management isn’t Indian buddy

It is becoming increasingly difficult to source WD CMR drives - I ordered the 4TB “red” CMR model from Amazon (uk) and they sent me the SMR version.... TWICE! Gave up and sourced it elsewhere, but I now have two SMR drives to return to Amazon.

Glass wire: monitors apps on your PC to see if they are behaving badly. Task manager: Am I a joke to you?

@signalworks

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t think you know what it is, it’s much more network focused than task manager, and has far better visualization options. Before people whoosh me, yes I get that this is a joke but it isn’t funny or original

@zarmaanful

3 жыл бұрын

@@signalworks + Task manager hides/shadows windows related tasks. I was surprised when windows setup was downloading updates yet task manager said 0% network usage from installer and no other program was listed that used network but my network card/switch activity LED was blinking like hell.

@paolovincedelgado559

3 жыл бұрын

When your comment section are just smart boomers

@hauntedshadowslegacy2826

3 жыл бұрын

@@paolovincedelgado559 What an oxymoron you have there... Impressive.

Whoever keeps upgrading your intro, you need to give them a promotion.

I can’t believe as this came out 3 of my WD Red 3tb drives just failed in my Qnap TS-451+ NAS

@bland9876

3 жыл бұрын

3 without replacement usually means by by data :( that sucks man

@xenolemon7261

3 жыл бұрын

Shut your mouth bro I have WD at my house in my PC and Xbox

@romakrelian

3 жыл бұрын

TOX1C L3M0N not for long...

@soarcheetah

3 жыл бұрын

@@xenolemon7261 Lol the typical "I don't have a problem therefore no one does" attitude

@heroslippy6666

3 жыл бұрын

@@xenolemon7261 haha PC and Xbox, wow such high performance devices. (poe's law) Slow down over there dude, wouldn't want your toaster to lose all it's data when you drop it into a bathtub.

Roses are red Linus' beard is quite nice When I hear that segway I double tap right

@Hello-qg4yk

3 жыл бұрын

*segue

This happened to me 2 years ago when I was building a new freenas cluster using a row of repurposed wdreds but because it didn't have any labels on the drives themselves for drive type I just thought the drives were bad... Lost about 8 days in productivity and production, I ended up with Seagate. I didnt dig any deeper in this issue but I'm glad this video came out to give me an overview of what happened a long time ago.

"It was just a communications breakdown" doesn't hold as much weight when *all three* of the big storage companies did the same thing. As well, considering the other circumstances going on around this... no, this is obviously not "whoopsie we made a mistake much sorry from us". Do not make excuses for huge multinational/multibillion dollar corporations.

@Kriae

3 жыл бұрын

8:32

@Anton-cv2ti

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think the breakdown was selling unlabelled SMR drives. There's tonnes of technology in the drives that isn't disclosed, and it isn't a big deal. The problem was that they sold this technology in NAS-drives.

@miscbits6399

3 жыл бұрын

Theres an awful lot of Stockholm Syndrome going on. That or a hell of a lot of postings vehemently supporting HDD companies from accounts which have never posted before You might think its astroturfing. I cant possibly comment on what you might think

@encycl07pedia-

3 жыл бұрын

Whoever thought of "shingles" in a drive should be shot.

@zarmaanful

3 жыл бұрын

@@encycl07pedia- Point Blank in the chest with a shotgun

Linus when he goes to his kids school on the day where you talk about your job: I talk and build PC's do some cable management shop LTTstore.com good quality cable ties... Also I swear to god all the dislikes is everyone that works at Western Digital and their alts.

@IAmSuchSkillMan

3 жыл бұрын

But before I tell you my job let’s Segway into our sponsor

@justsomeguywithasmugface645

3 жыл бұрын

*tweezers

@miscbits6399

3 жыл бұрын

Mostly it's because he's a combination of Jeremy Clarkson and Tim (the tool man) Taylor Every so often he does something serious though - like this one.

8:24 doesn't look like it effects 8tb+ at this time, and my 2tb and 4tb are really old, but I will definitely keep an eye out when buying 14tb, although holding out for 100tb would be cool.

Great video, I heard about SMR from a warning posted on Newegg while I was trying to find a 1 TB storage disc drive for my laptop. Guess what, nobody is making them unless you want SMR. That breakdown of WD drives in your video is on WD.com and the Red 2.5 @ 1 TB model # WD10JFCX doesn't exist yet as far as being able to purchase it. I saw an internal memo posted online from WD mentioning a new Red Plus drive using CMR @ 1 TB so I'm crossing my fingers.

Sigh....I got two WD reds failed in one year and wonder whether they are really for NAS use😩

"A number of months ago" = Nearly 2 years ago Damn does time fly

exactly, I was once looking for hard drives and figuring out what that drive is is really annoying since they are hiding it hard, real hard. sometimes it is not even clearly stated on the Datasheet...

My home nas is running freenas on wd reds I guess I need to look into this. Thanks for putting out this video.

Linus: Normally we don't delve into companies getting sued on this channel. Me: crys in WAN

Looks like Yvonne finally got tired of Linus' crap.

@ricko13

3 жыл бұрын

Why?

@thomasuniat2939

3 жыл бұрын

@@ricko13 One of Linus's eyes looks red.

This explains my slow performance and crashes on my synology. Recently replaced a failing wd40efax with a wd40efrx.. Now concidering replacing the other eFax as well.. Thanks for this great explanation!

I just bought two Seagate Barracuda 2tb clearly stated by the serial in the Amazon ad which model it was (CMR) and gotten two (SMR) types which differ one digit in the serial number. Problems since day one with these...

I'm betting a MBA in WD thought he could make WD a bit more money

@addydiesel6627

3 жыл бұрын

Quick and dirty money works for software but not for hardware. Ergo compare Microsoft and WD

@kingneutron1

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, this is the kind of crap that happens when Manglement gets involved and starts making bad decisions

@addydiesel6627

3 жыл бұрын

@@kingneutron1 Manglement 😂 love it!

fun fact: justine is 2 years older than linus

@thegoodchannel9688

3 жыл бұрын

You are joking right? How old is she?

@daoquang900

3 жыл бұрын

actually if I remember correctly, 3 years older. Linus was born in 86 and Justine was born in 83

@thegoodchannel9688

3 жыл бұрын

@@daoquang900 wow she looks 20

@js0988

3 жыл бұрын

You'd think shed be 2000 years older, that's how much I age every time I try to do anything on an cRapple device!

@theroebuck123456789

3 жыл бұрын

Justine has been looking like she's in her late 30's since 2009

Thanks for this video. I learned about SMR a couple of years ago when buying a couple of big HDDs to use for my personal backups (I don't use RAID, just two 1:1 copies of the same data on an USB docking station). I didn't want a SMR HDD as I read somewhere that its transfer speeds will plummet to very low if you write a high amount of data in one swoop (as the cache becomes congested or something), and already back then I kept wondering how the heck I can tell if a HDD has SMR or not. I figured that if the HDD is marketed as a NAS drive, then certainly it shouldn't have SMR... but now this video taught me that isn't necessarily the case. :D I bought two 8TB Seagate IronWolf HDDs (which were marketed for NAS use), hopefully they are not SMR. At least i haven't noticed any slow down when writing lots of data to them. Glad to hear if the HDD manufacturers have wisened up and are nowadays at last marking clearly if the drive is using SMR or not.

@ecarter2747

3 жыл бұрын

You should be fine with Seagate; only the 'desktop/compute' models may be using SMR (and should be cross-referenced before purchase), the IronWolf drives are strictly CMR.

Thanks for this video, i found out that my seagate firecuda is smr, which may be the cause of constant 100% active and high respond time (few seconds) when copying files even though it's a secondary hard drive. Need to RMA for this shxt for a more optimized firmware drive.

This format is excellent... I'd actually love a long term news cast from Riley or James if they have the time.

@joonglegamer9898

4 жыл бұрын

Throw in Steven Rourke from Gamers Nexus, and you have an unbeatable newscrew.

@nonamehere1626

3 жыл бұрын

LMG needs a deep dive tech channel for Linux and servers, they have many talented people there who could do such things, like Anthony. Kind of like Level1Techs

@JackSQL

3 жыл бұрын

@@joonglegamer9898 what would you do with the old screw? Ayooo

@joonglegamer9898

3 жыл бұрын

@@JackSQL Find the nut!

I can feel the stock value of WD free falling.

@dogboy0912

3 жыл бұрын

Stocks on sale

@Metatr0n

3 жыл бұрын

You should have felt that in April. In Germany the website computerbase.de reported on this issue on 15th April 2020. Don't know why it took LMG so long to make a video about this... www.computerbase.de/2020-04/wd-red-festplatten-smr-ohne-kennzeichnung/

imagine a world where drive manufacturers actually had to show the actual drive space on a unit.

@owensparks5013

3 жыл бұрын

That was my assumption as to what the topic of this video was going to be.

@khaimtje

3 жыл бұрын

Something like this xd www.hddzone.com/blog/images/WD8088AADS.jpg

@Bourinos02

3 жыл бұрын

Holy shit, did these drives really existed?

@benni922

3 жыл бұрын

this is windows fault they use the wrong Unit of measurement

@okaravan

3 жыл бұрын

Imagine a world where people actually know the difference between binary and decimal SI units. Oh wait, you can't!

It pays out to know about SMR even as a desktop user. For two days I was wondering, why offline cloning of a 2TB seagate barracuda drive with a SATA DiscStation took me 24 H instead of expected 4 H (roghly claculated with the drives speed of 150MB/s). Even looking at the speed droping constantly below 1MB/s for long periods of time hurts, when copying lots of data to the drive.

I just wanted him to say “smh”

Introducing WD Brown featuring SMR technology (Shitty Magnetic Recording)

This scared the crap out of me. I wasn't aware and my NAS I built a year ago used WD Reds. Immediately checked the model number and lucked out with having CMR versions.

Yeah, good thing I specifically ordered that very last 4TB CMR WD Red they had in store last year. They all seemed to be sold out everywhere at That time, and replaced by their SMR brethren. Which I had heard not so good things about even then.

This was genuinely interesting and really educational for me, I love it!

"Why are Drive Manufacturers in TROUBLE?" I bought a 1 TB drive, and when I checked it, it said it has 931 gigabytes! They removed 69 (nice) gigabytes from my drive!

@glibberglobber9358

4 жыл бұрын

That is just the extra space needed to have the filesystems data table.

@Max24871

4 жыл бұрын

Nope, it does not have 931 gigabytes. It has 1000 gigabytes, which is the same as 931 gibibytes.

@VaskoG384

4 жыл бұрын

@@glibberglobber9358 It was a joke, but I appreciate the explanation very much.

@DontreadPimpBoy

4 жыл бұрын

@@Max24871 $0.99 = $1.00 ?

@Muscleduck

4 жыл бұрын

Nah you bought a 1000000000000 bytes drive, so base 10. But your pc counts in 1024. KiB, MiB, Gib,...

Well thank you, I just checked the couple of 4Tb WD Red I have in my little nas, luckily they're the CMR models :)

It seems I dodged the bullet here. I purchased a *WD10EZEX 1TB Western Digital Blue 3.5"* drive two years ago, but after the publicism, Western Digital reports this specific drive to use CMR. But it's important I've become aware of this, as I only want CMR drives and the *WD20EZAZ 2TB Western Digital Blue 3.5"* drives I was intending to purchase for my next build are reported to be SMR/CMR. So I won't be purchasing those now, and will look to a reported CMR drive instead.

Linus: dunks on Hard drives SSD manufacturers: *Epic gamer moment*

@nodalanalysis7704

4 жыл бұрын

And showed 8tb m.2 ssd few days before

@pravda9646

4 жыл бұрын

I cannot fucking believe this got 75 likes in 20 minutes when there's literally no setup punchline or even joke ...man, what has youtube becomd

@Park_Place

4 жыл бұрын

@@pravda9646 A source of idiots and geniuses depending on who or what you watch

@r3strt

3 жыл бұрын

@@pravda9646 It's 2020 youtube, what do you expect, funny jokes?

@r3strt

3 жыл бұрын

@@mercian9425 Fair enough

I ordered WD Red drives for a NAS about two months before this whole thing blew up in the news. Thankfully, they all turned out to be CMR drives. I've always had faith in WD's products being good quality but I won't be buying from them again for a while.

@NoNameNoShame22

3 жыл бұрын

I too dodged a bullet accidentally. I was about to buy WD40EFAX but then saw the article and bought EFRX.

Thanks for breaking this down in an informative and non-dramatic way. When all this was originally going down, it was harder to get clear info on why this was serious.

I haven't had my NAS up since I moved 2 years ago, and the only other NAS I have is a 2-bay one, but I was thinking that in the future I will stay away from anything bigger than 4TB (not enough bays to move to raidz3, and bigger is asking for trouble :p ) and instead get better drives.. Seems that was a good idea as both red Pro and Gold are all CMR...

Sounds like Hanlon's Razor to me: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

@Ben.N

3 жыл бұрын

They knew, no question. WD is not stupid, they just thought they could get away with it.

@andrewmontague9682

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ben.N Cynical but certainly not unlikely. It wouldn't be the first time a tech company has acted like an asshole for money.

@________dQw4w9WgXcQ

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ben.N especially considering tech venders usually throw as much specs into the title and description as possible the idea of a new added technology not being the main selling point (whether it actually is good or not is irrelevant, tis new) is unbelievable. Edit: through -> throw

@Ben.N

3 жыл бұрын

Additionally, SMR is defenitely an interesting new technology, but it is not a replacement for CMR. It allows higher capacities at a lower cost, at least some of these savings should be passed down to the consumer. Who even though these should be marketed as NAS drives, that is the one factor that makes me think it could be utter incompetence.

3:31 Gees you got me scared there for a sec, had to put the video on pause to make sure I don't need to run to a bomb shelter.

I watched the HGST presentation from 2015. He wasn't talking about DMSMR being bad for ZFS. He stated that HGST determined that DMSMR wasn't going to work and did not offer any DMSMR drives at all! Their focus was on Host Managed SMR drives.

Fortunately, I only bought 2 drives that are SMR, just learned about these formats a week ago. And many manufacturers are not labeling their drives....

This episode is kind of like a Tech Quickie and i dig it :P

2:32 This was me when I didn't know what the insert button did lol

I bought WD My Passport 5TB and didn't know it's SMR. I am so mad there is no indication whatsoever on the box or anything. And I knew about SMR drive long before I bought it. I am so mad now. That's why the write and read speeds are so slow when the disk is almost full. Errghhhh

Windows Vista, Windows me... R&D, Sales, production... there was just some missed items, we all make mistakes. Drives are being replaced as requested. Good video; time to heal :-) Love your show.

AND TODAY`S VIDEO IS BROUGHT BY: LINUS;

@Faabiyen

3 жыл бұрын

Tech Norris

Everyone: *thinks editors have all the power at LTT* Patrick: *Has all the power at LTT*

I had no idea/info about this. But wondered what is that magic that with same HDD size storage is increasing day by day. Thanks for surfacing this fact. Really critical.

Thanks for the good info!

Other sponsors for LTT: *exists* Glasswire: I’m about to end this man’s whole career

I have 4 of these effected HDDs in my NAS now :S

@autohmae

3 жыл бұрын

Good luck, I would request WD for other drives.

@dougb7094

3 жыл бұрын

@@autohmae @Dataanti I have the same ... been fighing with WD for YEARS (maybe 5 or so) and they basically told me to ***k myself and go away. SO yeah.. every other physical HD I have is a Seagate now.

@fernabianer1898

3 жыл бұрын

@@dougb7094 perhaps thats the right moment to knock on their door again?

FINALLY I finally know why my previous 3 hard drives that I replaced in less than a year each were SO SLOW to the point where I couldn't use my system anymore. I often write a LOT of ~1M files, for exemple when extracting frames from a video, and my drives always slow down to abominable speeds, like

🤔. I wonder if this is why my 1TB WD drive has been acting up. During a rebuild a year ago, I was shifting data around from old 128GB drives, shutting down the desktop, then unplugging it shortly after. If the drive was hoping to file data for a while after shutdown, I was not allowing it. Eventually my 1TB drive just went nuts and pretty much lost all the data. I can see the file registry (sometimes) but it dies when I try to access the data. Other times it can't read the drive at all.