I also left this comment on the video from Linus Media Group. I am a graphic designer with a long history in the business. I was a user of PhotoShop 1.0 and also the original Illustrator after transitioning from CricketDraw, the original postscript drawing tool. I spent years in design shops developing colour workflows, to deal with advancing print technology. Including RGB workflows to preserve maximum colour range. Five and six colour printing systems, before PANTONE released Hexichrome. I transitioned from PageMaker to Quark Express when Express incorporated many advanced features not available in PageMaker. I then transitioned from Quark Express to Adobe Indesign when Quark decided to screw the Mac community and drag their feet on an OSX version. Fred Ebrahimi told Mac user “The Macintosh platform is shrinking." Ebrahimi suggested that anyone dissatisfied with Quark's Mac commitment should "switch to something else.” With Adobe’s egregious abuse of power in the market at the expense of its user base it may be time to transition again. I purchased Affinity Designer and Photo for my kids to keep them out of the Adobe ecosystem. The one real sticking point for me has been multilingual support in Affinity Publisher. I have not done it recently but in the past I have used InDesign to publish in Chinese, Japanese, Aribic, Farsi, Inuktitut and several other language systems. Looks like the future is full of change again…

@userlandia

Жыл бұрын

Since Affinity Publisher is still their youngest product, it has the most holes to fill. Photo's macro/batching support still needs work. Designer needs some help in layering. But overall their position is pretty strong. I think Pantone is overplaying their hand here and Adobe is probably tired of their BS, but at the end of the day Adobe is what the user sees and this is just another paper cut. FWIW, I found Publisher-produced PDFs to have few issues in our rasterizers and when we did have bugs with them Serif were fairly responsive. I'm not sure how well they communicate with end users, but from an OEM to OEM standpoint I found them pleasant to deal with.

Pretty much just another version of NFTs. You can't copyright a color (since you can't invent one). You can copyright a description, a designation or a mixture of designations, but it's not remotely the same thing. Nobody owns any color - It's like claiming to own oxygen...

My feeling as part of the industry is that as generations of designers get used to defining their own spot colors Pantone will fade. More brand management focuses on custom colors and .cxf data (unlicenced format) for exchanging color intent. No new Pantone colours means no one will ever need to buy another physical swatch book. This is an "Own Goal" event.

Awesome and clarifying video. Even studying design for 3 years there's some things that I've learned in the video,thanks

@userlandia

Жыл бұрын

The way I look at it is that there's always more to learn, and sharing knowledge is the best way to do it. 👍

@MrGuiagui

Жыл бұрын

@@userlandia That's really humble, thank you for sharing

Excellent presentation! I know quite a bit about colors, but not from a designer's point of view. You filled in a lot of gaps.

Excellent presentation. I switched to open source design software long time ago, but still use adobe software supplied at my day job. In my own agency work, I use RAL Colours instead. They're still an approximation, and can be converted to hex, rgb, cmyk, hsv, hsb, hsl and lab when needed. As someone who works in the sign industry, it's still not much of a problem. We kept old pantone libraries and re-inserted them into the adobe updates. Our bosses aren't even fully aware of this problem. Also, the RIP software we use have all of these colour databases embedded anyway, and that includes All Pantones, RAL Classic and RAL Design+, Munsell, and others.

Hey! I LOVED Quark... QuarkXPress 3.3, which was freaking AWESOME!!! But that was 25 years ago, so things may have changed since I last worked in publishing :) And nice shot of an old Pantone colour chip book. I had forgotten about those.

@kefkafloyd

Жыл бұрын

Hey, I was a QuarkXPress wizard too... back in 2000 with 4.1. :) If you got out at 3.3 then you got out at the right time for all the good memories.

@stevenvallarsa1765

Жыл бұрын

@@kefkafloyd I did get a chance to use v4 at a newspaper I briefly worked at in 2003. I was wondering what the heck happened. It was a flashback to my first encounter with PageMaker 5 in 1994 after years of wonderful experiences with v4.1.

@ians9828

Жыл бұрын

@@stevenvallarsa1765 I started with Pagemaker 1.0 then Quark leaving for InDesign at Quark 4. Guess it is time to change again.

Adobe already lost my business years ago when they switched to their rent-only business model! (I mostly used Premiere; you know, the video editor.) And just because some people using that stuff might not continue with it doesn't mean they're "not actual professionals"!

@userlandia

4 ай бұрын

The "actual professionals" I'm referring to are people whose livelihood depend on the print industry, like prepress departments. Unfortunately the reality is that the Serif products (which are very good!) don't have the same penetration as Adobe products. Even if they use alternative products, they'll still have to deal with Adobe whether they like it or not.

so they basically own the convenience of color accuracy for print media by giving it "label" and hiding the actual color behind a arbitrary name and ink mixture composition.

Do you remember Flash? Yea exactly.

Amazing video

Coreldraw still has Pantone

So can you _trademark_ a color? Then the answer to that is sort of... no _and_ YES. Right? Another shipping company can't use UPS Brown, being in the same industry, so but companies outside of that can use it all they want as long as they don't call it that, and as long as one in the other industry doesn't reserve some claim on it in that other industry, right? So as for the logistics industry, then _yes,_ while UPS may not be able to specifically _copyright_ the color, they can still _own_ it in that way: the trademark end of it. Did I understand right?

@userlandia

4 ай бұрын

Correct, colors can be "owned" as part of trade dress or trademarks. See other comments in this video for some discussion about that.

hah it seems linus tech tips writer took quite an inspiration from this video, even jokes are same xD

Wow, how is a font shape not copyrightable? Man, if you make a shape of lines that are text drawn as if they were big smooth logs of poop (like, say, Comic Sans MS), you would want to copyright that bad boy for sure! How come anyone could just come up and copy that shape exactly and put their own name on it and claim it as their own?

@userlandia

4 ай бұрын

In the United States, the shape of letters (typefaces) are not copyrightable. There are design patents, which are a completely different field of law and have different terms and conditions than copyrights. That's not true for other jurisdictions. A font (the implementation of that typeface) is definitely copyrightable, since it's computer software. This distinction is often lost on people. The US is actually sort of rare in the lack of protections on typefaces, but there's a bunch of case law on why this happened that you could read to learn about it.

How might you figure who wants to use Quark or not, when you're not a mind reader?

@userlandia

4 ай бұрын

"You don't want to use Quark" is advice, not an attempt to read someone's mind.

What will they do next? Copyright the air your breath and pinch your nose in your sleep if you fail to pay?

Well I've still got Creative Suite 6 so don't have to worry about this nonsense.

Oops, there's no such thing as a "PMS system." Guess why!

Go through your day today and notice everything you touch that has been printed. From your cereal box to the milk container, and so on. To the packaging industry no longer having a common name for each color this is a huge problem. For those with their heads only in digital design, and srgb monitor color mindset, they will remain none the wiser, and still just produce "pretty pictures"

But you can trademark a color. Cadbury and Nestle are currently in a trademark dispute over Pantone 2685C. If there's a brand that's popular their colors are probably trademarked such as TMobile, Coca Cola,, Craftsman, DeWalt, Fluke, etc TMobile sued an insurance company over magenta And they also sued Engaget for using for using magenta in their Engaget Mobile logo used for their site covering news in the cellphone market. It is also possible to get a design patent for fonts. And IIRC the first design patent was issued for a font.

@userlandia

Жыл бұрын

The concept of trademarking colors was addressed, hence the whole section in the script about trade dress. T-Mobile (or Cadbury) suing over the use of those colors is about protecting that trade dress within their respective industries, of which color is one facet. You'll have to forgive me for not spending half an hour on the video on this particular subject, but the heart of what you're saying was raised in the script. Keep in mind that most of my POV is from the United States, and other countries/regions often have stronger protections. T-mobile can try suing an insurance company over magenta, but unless they violated trade secrets to produce that magenta or otherwise appropriated something to do it, that case would be an uphill battle in that context. In fact, T-mobile wound up losing that lawsuit with Lemonade insurance, and they've lost other lawsuits in various jurisdictions about the use of a magenta color in trade dress. On the other hand, they've won others (like against AT&T when AT&T acquired Aio wireless, even though Aio didn't use RAL 4010, but that wasn't appealed because Aio was being wound down anyway). Of course Deutsche Telecom is a giant corporation with billions of dollars and an army of lawyers. They can afford to sue anybody and hope they either give in or settle. It's in their interest to aggressively protect their trade dress due to use-it-or-lose-it trademark laws. Now, in the case of Engadget using magenta in a "mobile" news section, that's not as cut and dry, but Deutsche Telecom didn't actually sue them. They didn't even send a harsh C&D; they sent something a bit gentler. Still, Engadget responded to the request by saying "we're not infringing," and as far as I know T-Mobile never responded and there were no actual court cases filed over it and it quietly went away. When it comes to Cadbury vs Nestle, the two were in the same industry and such a fight would be expected, except Cadbury actually lost that battle, for a variety of reasons that had more to do than just a specific shade of color. There's so many ways to lose trademark disputes and Cadbury lost because of classic overreach. The broader you try to trademark something in trade dress, the harder it is to enforce. I could have gone on for an hour about these subjects, but sometimes you have to trust that people might dive deeper into this elsewhere. Re: fonts, again, brevity does not mean I'm not aware of design patents. Design patents are still much tricker than acquiring a copyright (and their terms last for a shorter amount of time). They're outside the scope of this particular video, but securing a design patent is a whole other minefield of intellectual property and securing one for a font is not as easy as, say, if a typeface itself was copyrightable. It's much easier to get design patents on fonts that are uniquely designed, like emojis and dingbats. I've done my wrangling with trademarks and copyright, but patents are the area where I have the least knowledge and unfortunately these kinds of patents are extraordinarily difficult to both acquire and enforce.

Haha, good luck getting computer printer manufacturers to retool to make new printers with 6 ink slots for GOCMYK!

@userlandia

4 ай бұрын

They've been doing it for a very long time, but not usually in consumer-focused models. Epson's been selling professional inkjets with eleven-ink Ultrachrome color sets (which include orange and green) since 2007. The history of Hexachrome (and multi-ink systems in general) is beyond the scope of this topic, but the concept is still in use today. Just not Pantone's method.