The fact that there are debates as spirited as these years later is validation to how well Jordan wrote this series. we are all so invested in the characters and story lines that we need to know about each and every single name in the books. We all know we will never find any definitive truth or answer to some of these questions, but it will never stop of us from asking them.

@greeboart

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Also, this is The Wheel of Time, the story will continue but not for us readers. There is no end or beginning so it makes sense that characters will appear that have more to do with the future story and less to do with the story we just finished reading.

Can the creator have two avatars??? Bela is already present during this event

So glad this is back up!

I just finished the series for the third time yesterday. So this comes out at a great time. My vote is that Nakomi is the physical manifestation of the Light, much in the same way that Shaidar Haran was the manifestation of the Dark Lord.

I’ve been Hornswaggled! Mr Innkeeper….this is old new content😃….great shows from JordanCon sir, hope we get to join you in 2023!👍👍

Oooh, I like the Hero of the Horn theory. I can picture Nakomi as some mega-Maiden during the Trolloc Wars, a principle contributor to the identity of the Waste to the Shadow as "The Dying Ground."

The body swap needed to happen because the "People of the Dragon" needed to be let go of the current Dragon, and left to their own devices to survive until the the next Dragon is reborn again! And Nakomi was making sure that this had the best chances of happening. As for WHO she is... idk lol. I also enjoy the Marty Mcfly moment, but I prefer the Aiel wise woman who happened to go back into the pillars a 2nd time and just never left Ruidean after seeing the future of the aiel wasnt going to work out without some meddling.

For the recipe thing, I remember Sanderson saying he was happy he managed to put in something about Aviendha's parents, so her mom preparing food is not a vital clue nor important to the mystery imo.

Unite two theories: Nakomi is Tigraine, and she is a Hero of the Horn. She's the Mother of the Dragon, and even beyond that, she had a prolific life. A Wetlander princess who becomes a Maiden of the Spear after it is prophecised by an Aes Sedai. That's the kind of story that can make Hero. Being a relatively new one, she is not recognized by anyone when the Horn is blown (not all Heroes are named). She is reaching out to Aviendha in TAR as she falls asleep. She meets Rand after she is summoned into the world.

Great discussion! I'm even more undecided though... I have always leaned towards the "Creator avatar" theory, but it does feel a bit like the easy way out. An ancient being such as a hero of the Horn, Old Aiel Sedai or even a Jenn Aiel trapped in a Time-distorted Rhuidan (until it was cleared) is a lot more exciting....If Aviendha was dreaming then a lot far-fetched theories become very possible. Time will tell.

I always thought Robert made himself as Nakomi because he knew he was dying and wanted to be a small part of his creation. I know, I know, crazy lol🤪

@neme6ben

2 жыл бұрын

Not crazy at all, if anything it felt like an hommage to tom bombadil from the lord of the rings, he is a character created not to be explained. Always remaining a mystery

@SavannahSedai

Жыл бұрын

I definitely like this.

Glad it's back!

I think Nakomi is a hero of the horn. Avienda fell asleep and entered the dream world. As for knowing the recipe.... maybe it was Nakomi's and they are related?

love these theorie and lore discussion videos! (almost as much as WoTIdol) very insightful

I first thought Nakomi was a Forsaken, Lanfear perhaps. But now I think she's the Creator's Avatar. Still, she could just be some random Wise One. However, she talks like she's old and familiar with the Aiel struggles, so Avatar feels more likely. The fact that we split hairs about this kinda stuff is why I love the series. It's a ton of fun! Peace and walk in the Light.

On the Nakomi=Creator's Avatar, i could see it explained as another piece to balance the Dark One. Moridin pretty much became the Dark Dragon so to speak, the DO's champion on Earth, but then also created Shaidar Haran (spelling?) to serve as a much more direct agent of the DO. One of the biggest themes of WoT is balance (hell, one of the Dragon's symbols is the Yin-Yang); something happens, and then something else happens to sort of balance it, so my reasoning is that Moridin is the counter to Rand, the champion of each respective side, but then there's only Shaidar Haran as a created avatar of the DO, and no direct and established analogue for the light. The Creator may not be able to get directly involved, but once the DO did something drastic, the Creator could at least balance the scales in some way

Imma make it quick so you can get to the end of my thinking 😅 Egwane - everything has an opposite Avienda - finally home in the 3 fold land - I'm gonna cook meat BEFORE closing my eyes (not a dream. She would wake to burnt shell. Lol) - my mother cooked roots like those - where did that come from? How did they cook so fast - Where do the Aiel go from here? - Where will the Aiel find shelter? Rand - I'm gonna die, I embrace death - who's there? Myrddraal - black cloak, violent Jenn Aiel (Tinkers now) -All the colors, no violence Shaidar Haran - the hand of the dark one - I rip the pattern, tear it, like I do souls and put them where I please - True power Borderlanders “May you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand, and may the last embrace of the mother welcome you home.” 🙂 Now go re-read Towers of midnight, return to the 3 fold land for a moment and watch Avienda shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand, watch her be welcomed home... to her roots... for the last time. As for Rand, well, duty was heavier than a mountain. His death? As he embraced it, it became the easiest, the lightest thing, a feather, for him to accept. Finally Nakomi, the last embrace of her, Sheltered Rand in the body of Morriden as she welcomed him home. When you start looking at everything from the opposite-borderland perspective, it really just, fits. P.s. (just food for thought) Everything has an opposite. Shaidar Haran has the true power -body swap The Forsaken can use it Nakomi has a " " power. -Rand lights a pipe. What better name for the FATHER OF LIES power, the false power, than the one the Creator used

@RaquiBear

4 ай бұрын

Whooaa…. 🤯 ok. You’ve convinced me! 😁

Unless they made some huge mistakes, it can't be Tel'aran'rhiod. In that chapter, the darkness was mentioned three times. The world of dreams has an ambient light that Avienda would have noticed right away. Also, Avienda pulled a water skin out (of her pack?). The pack was not in that spot long enough to appear in the world of dreams. Robert Jordan mentioned many times that fire/flame did not appear either. To fleeting. But Avienda saw a fire with coals. Even after she retuned from searching for Nakomi and finding she had vanished. I suppose Nakomi could have created a fire if she was a strong Dreamwalker, but she could not have created a pack and waterskin she had never seen or the exact same shellback. Maybe Nakomi enteerd Avienda's dream from Tel'aran'rhiod . any thoughts?

I could also see Nakomi as one of the ghosts that appears during the thinning of the Pattern throughout TOM.

What if Tigraine is a hero of the horn named Nakomi, and she just happened to be called Tigraine in that particular incarnation?

@shauntempley9757

2 жыл бұрын

Then she would have looked as she did in the portrait that Rand saw in Caemlyn.

OK, Siansonea convinced me. Nakomi is a super secret double probation wise one. To add to that, it's quite possible that Aviendha wasn't the first one to go through the columns a second time. Maybe Nakomi was the first and has been isolating herself from events so as not to interfere until she can influence the right person at the right time (aka Aviendha) to help prepare her for what she'll see the second time through and nudge her in the right direction toward changing the terms of the Dragon's Peace.

One of my favorites. :)

It would be interesting for The Dusty Wheel to revisit these theories once Origins of The Wheel of Time releases in November. For those who aren't aware, the product description on Amazon lists the following as one of the included insights of the book: - The long-awaited backstory of Nakomi Will this solve the mystery, or lead to more theories? Time will tell!

Happy to see this episode back @The Dusty Wheel

I dont think Nakomi could be the wheel's avatar - the Wheel has no compassion so why save Rand at the bore? I could see halping Avienda save the Aiel to fix the pattern, but why bother with Rand. I like the creator's avatar idea, - this indicates the creator has compassion and was unwilling to let the Aiel suffer and die, or the Dragon expend his life. I also like the Avienda time travel idea - except that her future self is really easy going about the whole save the Aiel from the Seanchan thing, but I love the idea that Avienda's gateways also pierce time - and the books may back that up if you look at what time of night she fled rand and how long they must have been "busy" + time for sleeping and it was stillnight when she traveled to seanchan even though it would have been many time-zones east . Love the book discussions Innkeeper!

Nakomi is Tom Bombadil! 😀

What if Tigraine ended up a hero of the Horn after their fight on Dragonmount and bringing Rand into the world🤷‍♀️ wish I would have had knowledge of this channel when this was live.

I really like the Marty McFly theory. It doesn't have to be Aviendha herself, it could be a daughter or granddaughter. Or great-grandaughter. Aviendha will have powerful mystical quadruplets. It could even be a product of a post-body switch union between Rand-Morridin and Avi. That way this descendant is helping facilitate her soul-father's transfer into her bodily father. (Or grandfather.) A possible scene with Morridin prior to the switch would be particularly interesting. I do think T'A'R' is involved with the appearances to Avi and Rand and possibly the time travel.

This is not really an answer to the question on who Nakomi is, but it's still interesting. Nakomi is an acronym of Monika. Monica is possibly of Greek origin meaning "solitary" or of Latin origin meaning "to advise". Monika is the German/Nordic way of spelling Monica.

I'd say that Nakomi is to Aviendha what Hopper is to Perrin.🤓

I wonder if Avienda was in the dream fully and met Nakomi

Just because we didn't see her in another guise, does not mean that we did not see her in her true form. Mr. Sanderson could be leading us off the path with that answer. I read somewhere a long time ago that two things he couldn't reveal where Nakomi's identity and how Rand lit the pipe. My first readthrough, I thought she was one of the Forsaken. An unreliable narrator.

My only problem with Tel'aran'rhiod theory, is that she may have some experience there via ter'angreal, but she isn't a dreamer herself. And I don't recall her bringing the ter'angreal with her. Perhaps she had that moment that most non-Dreamers have where she touches it, but usually it's an "in and out" thing there, and this seemed far longer than usual for an "in and out" slip into TAR. But everything else with that theory is more than plausible

If Nakomi was a Hero then Rand might have recognized her - as Brandon's earlier comment seemed to hint that Rand may have been able to recognize seeing Nakomi at some point, so that one could work

Regarding it being an Aes Sedai from the age of legends: What about a stasis box? If a Gholam could be preserved in a stasis box since before the breaking, why not use one to preserve an Aes Sedai.

So maybe Nakomi was Avienda's mom, who came back as a hero of the horn.

Was Nakomi instrumental in the process transferring Rand's soul to Moridin's body?

Yes! I looked for this the other day, glad I can watch it again😁 Mat the congressman, doing insider trading?😂

Ok I thought I was losing my mind with all the deja Vu 😵‍💫 And then Drew said I see Nakomi as something of a Shaidar Haram analog and that's when it hit me because today's part of the outro reel for the show lol

OK, now despite Brandon's assurances, Nakomi is obviously Wit in a dress. (that's my head canon despite it being factually untrue) As far as actual theories go, why does it only have to be one? Why can't we combine two or more? For example, why can't Tigraine be a hero of the horn? And Aviendha deciding to travel back and change the past (which, by the way, she would only have known to do if she had visited the future or if she had suddenly remembered a ring memory) would be a time travel paradox. If her future self travels back to the present, then that future self would have been visited by "Nakomi" herself back in the day. But what if she was an Aviendha from a mirror world? She could have seen some of the future or seen something in the rings prompting her to come visit, and she wouldn't necessarily have been visited by Nakomi herself, leaving her free to change things in an alternate reality. I'm not sure if I subscribe to either of those theories, but imo, combining different theories definitely seems worthwhile to me - if only because it's fun to speculate about ;) Another theory that I don't think is true but that I think is fun to entertain is that Nakomi is a kind of Aiel Jain Farstrider. She could have discovered her talent for dreaming (knows to be there to see Aviendha and also what to tell her) after leaving the Aiel to see the world and recently returned. If she has left very early in her life, that would explain why Bair has never heard of her. In fact, if it wasn't for Bair, I'd say that instead of another Farstrider type, she could have been a wise one's apprentice who flunked out (unlikely) or ran away and knew from the rings to visit Aviendha, but it's almost impossible that Bair wouldn't know about that happening. Anyway, I have no strong preference for any theory, but speculation is fun, so thanks for the video :) Edit: Regarding the ancient wise one theory, I think that if that's the case, Bair didn't know about it (guess that's possible if she's a channeller and thus possibly much older than Bair - and in hiding).

Can anyone explain something from the description for me please. In the statement "... A Pattern Hopper? A PLE? The Wheel's Avatar?..." I have racked my brain but I can't figure out what "A PLE" means. Someone please ease my frustration!

@TheDustyWheel

Жыл бұрын

Sorry! I should adjust that. A PLE is a Pattern Level Event. That's what Jordan referred to "effects of the Wheel" where he used that to explain how stuff like Ishamael fighting Rand in the sky being seen in so many places was possible. www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=204#7

Hmm...i just had a thought... if Brandon doesn't actually know about the pipe, how does he know for 100% certainty that they are different "events"? what if the Nakomi stuff was just better understood by Brandon and any connection to the pipe, if there, just wasn't noted down and so he assumes they are 2 different things?

I’m confused by the focus on the meal Avienda just thinks oh my mom uses those ingridients which just seems like yeah I mean these are the available ingridients in the waste. The meal being delicious is just Avienda getting a bit of home cooking with threefold ingredients inducing a bit of nostalgia as she’s been gone for so long. I don’t see either of these things as major clues to who Nakomi is in the grander story.

It wasn't until they were talking about how ta'vern was such a clever way to introduce deus ex machina in a reasonable way that I realized I had seen this like a year ago? Apparently WoT fan theorizing and discussion is a never ending cycle of some sort :D

I'd caution the host against positing new corrective mechanisms to the metaphysics. Occam's Razor warns against multiplying entities unnecessarily. Baye's Theorem would show that relying on this makes it less likely than a hypothesis that doesn't posit a new mechanism without very strong evidence and we just don't have that here.

@shauntempley9757

Жыл бұрын

The only corrective mechanism that was left in the books, was the Creator in a form to balance Shaidar Haran. At the end of the day, her moment with Rand screams Creator in a form. Linda's final comments is further points to the fact that only the Creator would care about Rand. But Moridin? No other character would care about him.

Nakomi, to me, feels like a "wandering Jew" figure, a literary device. I think that works...cursed to wander until freed by the second coming/dragon reborn/last battle...if so, what was her sin? Is she Jenn Aiel? She feels like it, and that sort of fits the ancient jewish feel of the Aiel. And therefore, Rand frees the world, the Aiel and Nakomi in the end. It fits with RJ/Brandon's use of classic literary devices and liberal borrowing from multiple, disparate mythologies and religions...She might also be Hoid, who might also be a sort of world hopping wandering jew from the Cosmere...

My theory is that the Voice is Nakomi, she's also the previous Champion Of The Light and progenitor to the Aiel. As progenitor of the Aiel it will explain why the Aiel were held in high esteem in the AOL. I also don't believe that Aviendha, a former maiden, would fall asleep without being aware of it and also to be in Tel without knowing with her experience is hard to believe. The theory of Nakomi as a Hero of the Horn is hard to believe because there would be no reason for Birgitte to ask Elayne about Rand. It's clear that Birgitte is wondering where Rand/Lews was since he was supposed to be dead. When Brandon Sanderson says what Rand is doing is different from what Nakomi is doing, does he mean the mechanism of what they were doing was different or did he mean just that they were doing different things?

in what book did Rand get captured and put in a box by the red Ajah (sp) I can't remember?

I subscribe to the future Aviendha theory.

Nakomi could've been an ancestor of Avienda in addition to a hero of the horn

Harriet Avatar... ie. a cameo.

Wacky theory...Is there ever a mention of a female greenman? Things do begin to grow and heal at the end. The Greeman does appear out of no where at the eye...thoughts?

@techbuster9652

2 жыл бұрын

And the green man had been around for a long time. Perhaps Nakomi is not the wife, but rather the re-emergence of the Greenman.

To Norm and the Tigraine theory, possible ≠ probable. :-)

Wouldn't Aviendha have noticed when the food disappeared in her stomach if it was T'A'R?

@UnravelingthePattern

2 жыл бұрын

Does the food disappear though? Moghedien was forced to drink Forkroot in T'A'R and it affected her real life body so that she was asleep and incapacitated until Nynaeve found her in Salidar.

@lightblindedfool9510

2 жыл бұрын

@@UnravelingthePattern I think it wasn't the tea but the concept of what the tea does and that Moghedien believed it would affect her that affected her physical body. Remember that Perrin and Gaul tried to eat food in T'A'R but it just disappeared as they ate it.

Better question what is Naomi ☺️

Isn’t this an old episode?

@TheDustyWheel

2 жыл бұрын

It is. We made a few modifications and re-uploaded it.

@gutzumerken36

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheDustyWheel what modifications and why was it down? :) Just curious

@AnotherBrownAjah

2 жыл бұрын

This is the Dusty Wheel Cut

👋🏾

The Marty McFly theory would make Brandon Sanderson a liar. We've seen Avienda before. Q.E.D.

Nakomi is Harriet

I think she is just like the green man. Another old entity.

She was an incarnation of a previous times "dragon"

@37thgungrunts

Жыл бұрын

The Dragon is specifically LTT. There are other champions of light. But Dragon is LTT

@tylerhamilton9056

Жыл бұрын

@@37thgungrunts hence the air quotes around dragon, just a term I used for the champion of the light, I figured that was a given..

@37thgungrunts

Жыл бұрын

@@tylerhamilton9056 that's not a given

@tylerhamilton9056

Жыл бұрын

@@37thgungrunts "dragon" .....do you not understand what "air quotes" imply

@37thgungrunts

Жыл бұрын

@@tylerhamilton9056 that it's a title or a nickname

My theory on Nakomi is to long and complicated to give a detailed explanation... which is probably why it's not a credible theory It kind of ties together theories in your metaphysics video, the three constants in particular, the Aiel (not individual souls but Aiel as a people) and how they're tied to the wheel itself in a way (which is why Nakomi is Jenn but not one of the Jenn in the second/ third ages

I always took it that Nakomi was Graendal in disguise using her physcological mastery in messing with Aviendha. She would know the original Aiel as well as current events. The fact that she inadvertently helped the Aiel through Aviendha rather than hurt is just another Forsaken plan gone awry.

This show sucks.