13:19 The max for the AMG games is based on the number of people who qualified for Worlds rather than a ticket allocation from an informed estimate. The gap is the number of people who couldn’t make it.

I was so happy to see slots for Warmachine sell out in hours for Adepticon. Sure it was hard to get into because of the limited space, but it was amazing to see the game coming back in a big way.

Star Wars Legion is a great game. Plays a bit faster than 40k. Suprised there was no representation for Battletech there. Battletech has been making a come back and has lots of new miniatures available.

@henryrodriguez6260

2 ай бұрын

I was coming here to say the same thing about Battletech.

@user-ho1fg8xm3i

2 ай бұрын

I agree, a great game, but all newer minis have been out of stock since forever.

@henryrodriguez6260

Ай бұрын

@@user-ho1fg8xm3i You think? It seemed that Catalyst has most available direct. Admittedly, I have mostly stuck with the larger core box.

I'm shocked too! 24 people. 😮😮

Kings of War Adepticlash numbers were from Day 2. Not sure if that’s Day 2 of play in the next round or just scheduled on “Day 2.”

#1? Just a cute little guy trucking along.

256 tickets (being a Base2 number) breaks down into a standard bracket easier. 40K capped the number of players to make it easier on the tournament staff.

@printandplaygamer7134

2 ай бұрын

Factors of two really only matter in an elimination-format tournament. Warhammer 40K tournaments run on widely-used, well-tested apps which automate round pairings via a "Swiss Pairing" algorithm, which pits teams with similar records against one another throughout the tournament. It's better to have an even number of players than an odd number, so everyone has an opponent each round, but divisibility by any number larger than two is irrelevant.

17:09 The Mantic numbers vividly illustrates the gap between AMG and GW and everyone else in the industry.

@gstellar96

2 ай бұрын

Yeah that that was a much bigger drop off than I expected. Goes to show TOWs strength though that it immediately came out swinging. Much like the release I expect it hit the cap much earlier than anticipated and that next year will be even bigger

@printandplaygamer7134

2 ай бұрын

@@gstellar96 But will Old World remain active three years from now, or will GW relegate it to third-tier status alongside Horus Heresy? I suspect that TOW will peak next year, and then trail off over time, while Kings of War will take a hit while TOW will take a hit while GW is actively supporting TOW, but will begin to rise again once GW lets TOW begin to fade.

Adepticon's 40k tournament seems to have been a team tournament, with 4 players per team so perhaps that resulted in it having fewer overall players than a normal free-for-all tournament does? Nice to see that Warcry is doing fairly well (in terms of tournament presence at least), but yeah laughing at other games because of their tournament numbers is not classy! And 3, probably.

I’ve always been surprised that Star Wars games don’t dominate. I could see it appealing to more people because it’s more family friendly and people already love the universe.

@gstellar96

2 ай бұрын

Imo I don't think star wars has enough variety in its factions and how they're designed aestheticlly. I think the characters are great but the armies themselves are lacking compared to other war games especially 40k

8:28 Most of those people have had those armies for decades 😉

Even though i think there can be some correlation between total tickets and the amount sold, it does also perclude some specific behaviors in particular with GW games, most games that are non big 40k and big AoS are considered gateway or entry titles, these games Ex. kill team, warcry, underworlds are by many considered secondary games, case and point: had arecent killteam tourney with 12 players, that would have had atleast 20 participants if not for a 40k tourney happening at the same time. I think what we see with underworlds is exactly the case, some of the people who would ahve participated in the nemesis grand clash migth have been playing another game with more players and more prize support, or played in the championship tournament that was hosted earlier in the week, that was a comunity event and GW didnt organize it (wich was at capacity, 22/22 if im not mistaken), a good example was also the recent warhammer world nemesis grand clash (literally yesterday) that had a whooping 92 players, which only can be rivaled recently by the austrian masters tourney a couple of months ago that had 90 players. I think GW is canabalizing its own games and kind of ignoring and inadvertingly destroying smaller comunities for the sake of the bigger and better selling games, i do believe that smaller games can thrive but beating the initial, doom and gloom of trying something new, getting to know new people and dispelling their own prejudice. really makes it a hurdle, especially when theres like 30 people playing the big flashy 40k game

People want to play Star Wars space ship games and hopefully these numbers are noticed by Asmodee, they are the ones truly in control

Interesting information, and I pick Scone Gentleman #3

Underworlds... underperformed?

@henryrodriguez6260

2 ай бұрын

Underworlds has been underperforming since day 1. It is a minor miracle it is wrapping year 7 of its existence (really kept afloat from sales to other game systems). However, I think it is GW’s deepest, most nuanced game (Kill Team a very close second).

Love infinity by corvus belli 's a really unique spin on the skirmish game with amazing looking minis.

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

I have a small Ariadna, Haqqislam, and the new Torchlight brigade :)

You know I'm all about skirmish games. Love me Kill Team, love me Warcry, but I want to play some others also. Malifaux and Infinity peak my interest. Really great to see the spread of interest fairly even amongst the different games. Scone #1

Underworlds is SUCH a good competitive game. Unfortunate that the online tournaments are non-existent right now :( If anybody is interested in hosting/organizing a Comp for WHU PLEASE let me know. Vassal is the most popular format of playing online but there's a ton of TTS players and the mod is regularly updated and maintained. WE NEED TO REVIVE ONLINE WHU COMPS!!

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

I assume you're aware of the large whu discord where tournaments take place weekly?

@WarlordExo

2 ай бұрын

@@GlassHalfDead I am! It's only on Vassal though :/ Not that it's bad, I and many others just would prefer TTS. I just joined that server though, thank you!

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

@@WarlordExo oh yes they much prefer vassal there yeah. Removes the 3d element but IMO if you're online might as well go 2d anyway

@WarlordExo

2 ай бұрын

@@GlassHalfDead True, gives it more of a Gwent or MTG vibe imo. But I'm stoked to see regular comps on there! I really hope WHU pops off and gets more attention with the next edition/big release :/

@jeancouscous

2 ай бұрын

@@WarlordExo It will die i think

Here for that wholesome Circle Hello!

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

I should probably start doing my hellos again, frankly!

Love Warcry, hope the next edition isn't too different. I wonder what their plan is with Middle-earth, do they have to come out with new material to keep the license?

@andreasburman

2 ай бұрын

Was an article about mesbg couple of month back, is at least one new supplement scheduled for 2024

I wouldn't lean into Warcry or Underworld too heavily right now--it looks like GW is getting ready to massively cut support for both games. That said, Warcry has the necessary properties to become a community-supported game if GW stops supporting it completely, much like Blood Bowl and Mordheim. Since official Warcry rules exist for over a thousand models from every AoS faction, models will continue to be available indefinitely. The game does not require decks of cards, the way Underworld does; the tokens and terrain it does need can be easily homemade. And Warcry is objectively the best-designed, most modern game GW has released in years. The irony is, if any company *other than* GW or AMG published Warcry, they'd consider it a monster hit, and support it to the best of their ability for the next 20 years.

Malifaux is the best skirmish system ever, and if not the best, the top 3 best then.

where was battle tech and bolt action ? any numbers / reprensation on them two games

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

They are not systems I really follow, but I did put bolt action along with a few other games on the final slide. Battletech had a very very confusing schedule so I didn't know what to pick from it. I honestly don't know what's relevant with their different events. Their biggest number of tickets event sold 39/64. Too much happening their though

Isn't part of the appeal of these events getting to play games you don't normally have the opportunity to play? I would join the Warcry event over Warhammer Underworlds but that's because I can't play Warcry here whereas there is a WHU weekly meetup and monthly tournament. Obviously that's not indicative of which game is performing better either but I think you have to look at a much wider data set than a single con even if it is the largest one. It's interesting to see the data and speculate but I don't really see how you can draw very useful conclusions from the data and I would have to suspect GW would just use the sales data as a more accurate metric.

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

Indeed, but we don't have access to sales data, so all we can do is speculate. Which is fun to do and a fun thought experiment :)

Have you seen the Quar games?

Maybe legion and x Wing have more tickets since the game is faster to play than 40k?

Gentleman 2, but I think it's cheating with eyeball fidelity

#1 is cutest

#2 all the way!

3

You only mentioned the smallest of the three Bolt Action tournaments. The singles you listed was run by Warlord directly, who have a reputation among the Bolt Action community for running poorly organized events. The doubles drew 32 teams, and the Patrol tournament drew 40 players. There were also additional Middle Earth tournaments beyond what you listed. My point is that if your goal is to help understand the player bases of other games, adding in the full extent helps paint a better picture of the community around the games.

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

Every event had more than one event going. I picked what seemed the most appropriate/largest. I've never played and am not interested in bolt action so had to guess. Just trying to mention as much as possible :)

GW has a bunch of official tournament events and it's own circuit around the world.....AMG really doesn't, most of the others don't either. So adepticon is a much bigger deal for them. A pit stop for GW, a grand Prix for everyone else.

Balanced, stable rules > new models and frequent rules changes. Also, I think were going to see Spearhead and Vanguard matches pop up. Buy one balanced box with balanced rules, play for an hour. That's no Scone Gentlemen, that's Wargames on Toast.

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

In fairness, we didn't see a groundswell of combat patrol tournaments. It just doesn't seem to be what the big boys want

@jeancouscous

2 ай бұрын

@@GlassHalfDead Combat patrol is 0 fun. that's why

scone number 2

2 for no real reason

2

1

SAGA?

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

Not a game I've ever felt compelled to look at due to me not liking the theme, but their "Grand Melee" got 33/40 on the first day, which is honestly not bad at all!

@Oldf0x

Ай бұрын

@@GlassHalfDead Thanks for humouring me. Double G'day!

I think you should get an eyebrow piercing. It would bring a lot to the channel. You could be rebrand yourself as the "Punk Rock Skirmish Gamer". If your interested in hiring me as your PR manager slide into my DM's, playboy.

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

I have been looking for a new identity and I think you're on to something. I'll get an eyebrow piercing and make it my entire personality.

@Whopper0311

2 ай бұрын

@@GlassHalfDead I'd also like to see you in one of those leather jackets with an absurd amount zippers on them.

@GlassHalfDead

2 ай бұрын

@@Whopper0311 I point wear Warhammer branded leather jackets!

@Whopper0311

2 ай бұрын

@@GlassHalfDead I know darling, that's why I'm here.

Love Kill Team, but can't buy anything new as WG is pathetic, so given up on all WG products, and gone to Dystopian Wars, a great game.

14:10 Obviously GW works in binary, 32, 64, 256 players. Probably easier to manage a tournament bracketing system with base-2 numbers.

#2!

3

1