I quadruple wield shields. I use a forearm strapped shield on each arm while holding a center grip shield in each hand. Also I have a fifth shield strapped to my back. My opponents never know what didn't hit them.

@macekreislahomes1690

Жыл бұрын

Good idea, especially if not using any armor, at least on the upper body. it also combines advantages of center grip and strapped shields simultaneously.

@lfbp7051

Жыл бұрын

The madlad

@mrexpendable1232

Жыл бұрын

A shield, probably

@Gideon_Judges6

Жыл бұрын

Your license plate says DFENS.

@BrassMountainLion

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps if you strapped shields to the sides of your calves and thighs you could not hit them even more effectively... and with a big enough boss, a shield even makes a fine hat!

I'd love an analysis of the shoulder mounted shields that spearmen or pikemen occasionally used. Having both hands free and a shield seems incredibly useful.

@b.h.abbott-motley2427

2 жыл бұрын

Adam van Breen's 1618 manual is fascinating that regard, as it details a version of the Dutch system for using strapped round shields in conjunction with the pike & without. This work shows the shield held by a strap around the neck when used with pike; the left arm only goes into the brace of the shield when using the sword.

@atom8248

2 жыл бұрын

@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 the part with the "targe" is also interesting, the equipment seems very 14th century (sword and shield plus armor), I wonder if it was simply a drill or if it was how dismounted cuirassiers would have been equipped (atleast in the Netherlands).

@b.h.abbott-motley2427

2 жыл бұрын

@@atom8248 It was an intentional attempt to go back further than that, to Roman times. Lots of Renaissance writers turned to classical antiquity & professed that they believed classical ways of war more effective. The Dutch seem to have actually practiced such methods, at least to some extent. Sir Edward Cecil wrote that Dutch pikers had shields that weighed six pounds, did good service, & about how they hanged on the back when marching & could be deployed be turning the left shoulder. I'm not sure about other evidence for the dedicated targetiers with those larger shields ("targes"), though.

@atom8248

2 жыл бұрын

@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 Interesting, I think I read about some countries general trying to equip swordsmen with bulletproof shields mixed in with the pikemen also.

@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149

2 жыл бұрын

If you want to take it further, he large, rectangular shoulder plates of a lot of samurai armour can also be seen as what is essentially shoulder-mounted shields.

The point about strapped shields being less tiring to carry is pretty important, considering that the vast majority of a soldier's time in war is not actually spent fighting.

@sillygreatjaggi7946

2 жыл бұрын

If the shield is big enough, like a kiteshield, you can literally rest it on the ground. Though that probably applies to both kinds of grips

@Skallagrim

2 жыл бұрын

(nevermind, I derped) :D

@lscibor

2 жыл бұрын

If you're not using your shield, you can carry center gripped ones in many ways though. Don't have to carry it like in battle entire time. Romans have covers for their scuta, they quite likely would have some straps for ease of carry too.

@victorro8760

2 жыл бұрын

I imagine that ancient soldiers had much higher grip strength and endurance than people have today.

@MaaZeus

2 жыл бұрын

@@Skallagrim You probably cannot hold it in your back because of backpack but you could probably carry it on your side with a strap, like a Duffle/hockey bag.

One thing I would like to note: Captain Amarica doesn't really wear the shield as a backpack, he doesn't put his arms through the straps. You can he just puts it on his back and it sticks there. The leather straps are holding what I think are electromagnets on his back on which the shield is attached.

@Rat_the_Renegade

2 жыл бұрын

Wasn't the magnet thing only in Age of Ultron though? (at least movie wise).

@andrewli6606

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rat_the_Renegade it appears that AoU is when he had an electromagnet powerful enough that it can recall the shield. It appears that his suit has a magnet which he can just stick the shield onto in previous appearances.

@kasperbuyens3562

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rat_the_Renegade in AoU he has them on his arm too, but I think the one on his back was always there

@Skallagrim

2 жыл бұрын

In the newer MCU movies, yes. In the older comics and animations he did wear it like a backpack.

@kasperbuyens3562

2 жыл бұрын

@@Skallagrim AH fair enough, I haven't read those. They are sadly enough hard to find where I live.

I never knew why those shields had the bump in front. It was where the hand gripped behind! I'm 40 and learned something in seconds.

@nowthenzen

2 жыл бұрын

If a shield has a metal 'boss' (the bump) it's probably a center grip, but some strapped shield had a boss for decoration or some other reasons

@Dan_Kanerva

2 жыл бұрын

don't worry. You could have figured it out on your own with common sense anyway

@treborkroy5280

2 жыл бұрын

@@Dan_Kanerva ...Really? Not sure how. I always assumed all shields were like the two bands across the forearm. Or are you just leaving a snarky insult?

@treborkroy5280

2 жыл бұрын

@@nowthenzen I thought it was something to deflect a direct blow to the center. Maybe a way of reducing the blows force. I never seen the backside is why I never knew. I've seen these shields since I was a kid.

@Dan_Kanerva

2 жыл бұрын

@@treborkroy5280 no , no. I am not calling you dumb or being sarcastic... is just that the semi-sphere being there as a hand pocket for the shield is a fairly easy conclusion to make... was the first thing that camw into my mind when i saw one at age 12

The con you mentioned with the strapped shield, getting hit with an arrow that can also penetrate into your arm, can be expanded upon to include blunt force trauma. If you were to get hit by a war hammer or poll axe, the blow could break or damage your arm through the shield. A center grip shield would just give way to the strike, causing less damage to your arm. I remember Thrand explaining that in one of his videos.

@Skallagrim

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I was going to mention that as well but it slipped my mind while recording.

Besides the general aspect of center grip shields being more tiring to hold I imagine the stress on your wrist when getting hit by a heavy blow would be significant if you don't deflect it properly

@skedmcvey3913

2 жыл бұрын

one thing he didn't cover was the weight of the shields, in SCA fighting we found they need to be about 10 lbs to absorb the blow of a broadsword

@Chris_Sizemore

2 жыл бұрын

Can confirm that shots against a center boss shield does put stress on the wrist. Also you get tired a lot faster with a center boss shield. That is a huge factor. Also with a strapped shield you can roll it up to your shoulder and put your entire weight behind it to push your opponent. Super slow, risky, but occasionally useful. On the other hand, center boss shields are easier to maneuver to cover more of your body. Strapped shield users usually compensate by turning their bodies, which means they have less reach with their sword arm than someone with a center boss, unless they risk exposing the side of their body they were trying to protect. The shields Skallagrim is using here are just too small to give a proper feel for real sword and board combat. Coming up against someone with a large shield is very intimidating. Trying to figure out how to get around that thing is a real struggle, both physically and mentally.

@deletthis5040

2 жыл бұрын

That's what I thought too. What's stopping somebody from smashing the rim of the buckler intentionally to break your wrist?

@xboxcrusher

Жыл бұрын

I was looking to see if someone else had already mentioned this. :D And you're entirely right. Not just with bad blocks, but even with a correct block that is still a lot of force for your wrist to withstand over a long battle. Even if you discount the possible breaks and strains, over time you'd develop one hell of a case of carpal tunnel.

Can you do flat vs convex shields next? Both strapped or boss gripped (and both small or large) shields could be flat or convex. I'm curious what the pros and cons are.

@myco9253

2 жыл бұрын

Convex designs can be more durable (spreads the force a bit better and it is usually harder to strike the shields edge) and protects better depending on the size and design of the shield (blows glance more easily or the curve protects a body part better). The major con of a convex shield is producing one. It is far easier and less time consuming to make a flat shield. Convex shields may also cause some issues with positioning, depending on the shield of course. The tend to be a tas bit heavier as well. Overall it is largely dependent on the shield type, materials and a lot of other factors, but those are some of the possible benefits of convex shields.

@benedict6962

2 жыл бұрын

@@myco9253 convex also reduces distance between you and the shield, so arrows are more of a threat even for center grip.

@firestorm165

2 жыл бұрын

@@benedict6962 on the other hand the convex shield has a much better chance to cause the arrows to ricochet harmlessly away than a flat one

@baconghoti

2 жыл бұрын

Flat shields are easier to construct, those with a convex face will have a greater structural strength. However not all convex faced shields have a matching concave back. Depending on the construction method the convex face may be that only the centre has been thickened, this is more typical of larger ablative types. Secondly a curved construction has the same benefits as sloped armour on a tank; a piercing thrust has to travel further through the material because it is no longer a perpendicular strike. Shields with both a convex face and concave back and are strapped puts LESS of the arm adjacent to the shield. This is more common on smaller/metallic shields. Larger curved shield typified by the Roman legionary lessen the ability of an attacker to exert controlling force at the edge and are more often centre gripped. Small curved shields are held further from the body to keep it's angular size large to the opponent. This puts more of the arm and hand at risk from a counter blow. The curve protects more of the hand when the shield has been moved from the centre line. Arrows deflections aren't that much of a consideration because of material overmatch. An arrow's going through wood or breaking on metal. Flat shields are easier to cover and conceal centre line strikes and are more likely to retain bladed weapons in their ablative edge. Tl;DR it's way more complex than grip.

@redactedcanceledcensored6890

2 жыл бұрын

I guess convex shields would have their center of mass closer to the user so easier to hold and manipulate.

I’ve seen depictions of kite shields that had a center grip and a strap at the same time. Basically giving you the option of both. I always thought that was really interesting

@comradekenobi6908

2 жыл бұрын

I'd imagine it would be expensive no?

@caitlinomalley80

2 жыл бұрын

He actually shows and mentions those in the video too.

Heh. Thirty seconds in and I'm already glad I clicked this video. Skall's sense of humor never fails to put a smile on my face.

Skall, i like your advertising style. A personal touch, highlight a few products, and keeping it brief. I dont think ive ever watched through an ad before, I always skip them...until today. Keep doing it right 👍

@bungojerry9297

2 жыл бұрын

Lol same

I've never heard that theory about the shape of the Viking sword hilt! I have always wondered about the shape of those, it didn't seem particularly protective.

Funnily enough, just as Skall said at the end, I have never even considered that you can still use your main weapon to deflect blows. I just got so hyperfocused on the shield being the "main" defence that the thought of the sword still being used for defence never entered my mind.

@EladarImm

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, shield is just weird to me. I've been fighting with longswords of various types for 18+ years now, so having a tiny little shield is just bizarre and not second-nature/instinct/muscle memory. Heck, even using two swords it's very much instinct; but a shield? Nope. Not even a little.

@cryptosporidium01

2 жыл бұрын

I mean blows can come from any direction if it comes from the right and you have your weapon there you will use it to parry and maybe simultaneously punch with your shield.

@DTex.45ACP

2 жыл бұрын

I can't even understand that lack of realization unless you've never used a shield in a combat sport. Shield guards the off shoulder, torso, waist, maybe groin. Melee weapon held at an angle guards the head and primary arm and shoulder. It's natural.

@evanharrison4054

2 жыл бұрын

I guess that's a hurdle to overcome, but the other aspect is that generally speaking, your opponent is going to focus on your sword, so a slap or a light punch from the brim of your shield is going to really catch them off guard. A book I read about knife fighting could not emphasize hard enough that your opponent will barely be able to pay attention much less deflect your off hand attacks because of their focus on the weapon, so in many situations, your knife/sword can serve as more of a distraction than an actual tool of combat. One thing most people tend to forget is that for the majority of what we call the "middle ages", there wasn't really a code for "honorable combat" outside of knight tournaments and exhibition fights. Kick up dust, punch 'em with a shield, kick them in the shin, cut their hand with a short blade so they can't properly hold the sword...after a couple of centuries of brutal close quarters combat, the art of winning was perfected over the art of "looking cool while fighting" Especially in the age of mass produced crossbows, any second you wasted on your enemy meant another second for the next volley to be loaded. All in all, sometimes the sword is a tool and the shield is a weapon. Literally anything to give you an edge, because being gutted is a rotten way to die. It's all muscle memory though. If someone drilled shield deflects into you, you'd be able to do it without thinking. All you need is someone smacking you with a wooden stick about 2-5000 times.

@thomasfplm

2 жыл бұрын

I like LARP and I added a "spike" to my buckler and frequently defend with the sword and attack with the shield, even if I expressly point it to the opponent, they also tend to forget that you can defend with the sword and attack with the shield.

Love these hema/swordsmanship educational videos keep it up I’m a big fan!

Recently Dumbarton Oaks had a symposium on the Aztec captial of Tenochtitlan, where one of the talks by Dr. Laura Filloy was all about Aztec shields and their construction methods. Dumbarton Oaks doesn't have a recording up yet, but I highly reccomend it once they do upload it (and keep in mind they don't host the recordings forever, so keep an eye out for when it does go up!)

@robertlewis6915

2 жыл бұрын

Can you tell me where I can find that?

@MajoraZ

2 жыл бұрын

@@robertlewis6915 It'll be on the Dumbarton oaks website's recorded event page, but it's not uploaded yet

@robertlewis6915

2 жыл бұрын

@@MajoraZ Thankee

Loved this video Skall! Lots of points to consider. I also am really excited about your sponsor for this video. I un-ironically give business to any company with a medieval or fantasy style flare, it's essentially how I choose what I want to buy. Very epic that these folks are sponsoring you, I'm checking them out right now!

The complexity of heater shield construction makes me wonder if those functioned as one flavor, the other, and something in between. Only recently people began to take a look at that complex shield grip construction, which is vastly more complex than the relatively simple center grip and centered strap grip. But then, of course it has to be complex, since it was had to be useful on horseback and on foot. And: different times, different weapons, different shields, different tactics and techniques.

Great to see this shown, it’s always explained but it’s nice to actually see the pros and cons

Your friend has a magnificent beard

I love videos with this man, he also has a lot of knowledge as Skall and understanding of swordfight

I’ve always preferred the duel strap shields simply for their stability. I never could get the revolving door thing right.

I'm really surprised you've haven't made this video sooner. I'm glad you took your time to gather the facts. This is informative and interesting and

For the backpack carry you could have another strap, a third one running diagonally, like a sling.

More feedback from a fan. This is another great video. I really appreciate that you came at us with very practical information, pros and cons on both sides, and included live demos to show it off. I really do love that strap shield from this video. You showed it off on the target video too and it's stunningly gorgeous. Of course you don't really want to abuse it, but thanks for showing it as a tool and not just a decoration. I'm in favor of more of these types of videos. P.S. don't be afraid to revisit some of your old educational videos from 8 years ago. I know that "the basics" don't change, but you have better production quality these days and you can potentially reach viewers that won't go through your backlog but would like to learn about valid/legitimate melee combat. E.g. a video about edge alignment (swords and potentially other weapons) could be greatly informative. You cut like a pro, but show newbies how you got to that level. Does a flanged mace care about edge alignment? What about hammers? I'd love to hear your take on all of this.

With the Targe, a highland 'thing' was to have the dirk or dagger in the "shield hand" and another weapon in the "free hand" giving an opportunity attack, a possibility of trapping a weapon or easy access to a 'spare' weapon if otherwise disarmed.

I wonder if hybrids of the two designs exist. Ones with a strap but still a hollow area around the hand. Seems like the best of both worlds

One of my favorites you've done in a bit.

I feel like a thing you missed talking about with the center grip shield is not just how much more agile it is as a defensive weapon for deflecting and striking, it can also be used at full arm extension to close off broad angles of attack vs even a larger strapped shield.

@evanharrison4054

2 жыл бұрын

I'd imagine you could also throw them as a surprise attack much better than strap shields. Don't underestimate a 5-10kg disk being abruptly chucked in the general direction of your face. If you lose a second of composure and balance, that can mean death.

@deanwaller8283

Жыл бұрын

@@evanharrison4054 or just punch him the face,that's going to end the fight almost immediately

I liked they mini-spar at the end. Unedited cuts like that are gems.

Great work! You covered a lot of the big ones and a few that I wouldn't even think of! Two advantages of the center grip I thought of are 1. the fact that you can use it to create more space between yourself and your opponent if you need to wind up a larger attack, and 2. that with a center grip (especially a smaller buckler style one) you can use it to cut off your opponent's line of sight giving yourself an opening. You can do either with a arm brace shield as well, but not as effectively.

Love to see the grappling aspect taken into consideration.

something i feel like is missing here is that a Center grip shield could be on a sling (over the shoulder for example) aswell

Has Skallagrim ever done a video on weaponizing shields? I've know adding spikes on the front of the shield exists and the occasional "we added a gun!", but I wonder if blading the edges of the shield would be of any use. A diamond-shaped shield with sharp edges could be an interesting fusion of defense and offense, albeit it wouldn't have that much reach if it was strapped. I'd love to hear any ideas on weaponizing shields! Edit: Somehow missed the arm-blade/spiked shield link in the description. Absolutely fascinated with the idea of a forearm bladed shield.

@treborkroy5280

2 жыл бұрын

Prob harm the user more than the enemy.

@Skallagrim

2 жыл бұрын

I think I've talked about that in the video on arm blades and spiked shields (it's linked in the description of this one).

@ajithsidhu7183

2 жыл бұрын

@@Skallagrim why did Afghans used wrist cuts rather than india full body cuts

@ajithsidhu7183

2 жыл бұрын

@@Skallagrim please do on why khands and khyber knifes were straight but slashing swords

@lscibor

2 жыл бұрын

The best way of weaponizing a shield is likely to ram it into the head or some vulnerable part of opponents as hard as possible. Shield can weigh quite a lot and the fact that you can "punch" with them can produce a lot of impact.. Full contact armor fighting have quite a few KOs, or at least kockdowns that way, I'm pretty sure. kzread.info/dash/bejne/iKB3s5SpctLIZbQ.html Adding any kind of blades kinda defeats purpose, likely. You're not going to be able to wave it around and slash like with a sword anyway.

Something that struck me when seeing these set ups face off, is that for an arm mounted shield, you really only have good coverage of the lines on one side of the body. As he demonstrated a boss shield can be pivoted in the hand to equally cover both sides of the body almost equally. It would be especially bad if the person with the boss grip shield was left-handed.

As always, is nice to see a deeper insight in the body and physical mechanics that works in the weapons (or in this case, the shield). It would be easy to just say that as everything in warfare, each shield was made as a response of the conditions of their times and environment, so, each one has his own pros & cons, so, i appreciate your work going the extra step with the deeper explanation.

Giacomo di Grassi's manual has a great line regarding resting the round target on the thigh: "And there want not also men in our time, who to the intent they be not wearied, beare it leaning on their thigh as though that in this exercise (in which only trauaile and paines are auaileable,) a man should onelie care for rest and quietnesse" (from the 1594 translation).

Good vid. Informative and had a good flow. Also, that strapped shield looked really nice.

5:00 Shad once theorised, that you could grab a bow with the same hand as the one you are holding a strapped shield with, which is a pretty interesting idea.

Very good and interesting video as always, thank you very much I'm not sure what type of grip I would pick in a fight if given the choice, so many pros and cons to each type. I got no practical experience but the center grip style seems a bit more practical to me I wish everyone here a good weekend, and a happy Easter, if you celebrate that 😃

Love these types of videos on your channel. Cool to see diverse sponsors too.

I think it is super cool that the pop up ad on your video is for tourism Ontario. May the algorithm be in your favor. Thank you. I am thinking about a cold steel buckler with the Espada Xl as my everyday carry.

I’ve thought about this very topic for years but nobody I knew was able to come up a proper answer, thanks skallagrim.

Another great, informative, and practical video.

I really love this video idea Skall!

One thing I think could be important is the fact that with the center grip, you can (if you need to) protect the inner arm much more. Very minor but in some situations that might be a good thing to have. However, most strapped shields are sunken into the arm. This could be better protection as a large bracer.

It's about time. This is a great topic to analyze.

@Skalagrim, I admire your attempt to describe the use of the Highland Targe, however, you missed a few things, the first one is the Center Spike is a forged spike that Traditionaly is put through the back of the shield and held in place by forge welded disks on the front and the back of the shield. I know this because on my mothers side of the Family there were blacksmiths that taught me how to make them the Old Way. The Second is that there were Metal bands on the back of the shield that were attached by forge welds to corresponding metal disks in the front. And a third thing is that the Highland Targe was often used with a Knife or dagger either grasped in the left hand or attached to the shield by leathe straps or other devices ie metal bands etc. As for the Video itself, I cannot thank you enough for covering this topic as the art of using the Highland Targe has been mostly lost due to Colonization of Scotland by England. Cheers.❤✌😊

One point you missed, in a formation both shields have also different advantages and disadvantages. Center handed gives more distance, strapped gives more stability.

I would also add that a center grip would be better for infantry (especially large ones or "tall" ones like Roman/Gallic shields) and strapped is better for knightly style mounted combat, couched lances, gripping reigns, etc.

@undertakernumberone1

2 жыл бұрын

What about Hoplites?

@seanpoore2428

2 жыл бұрын

@@undertakernumberone1 I'm speaking in General terms. There have been plenty of infantrymen equipped with strap shields and vice versa. I believe Roman cavalry used center gripped shields as another counter-example to my point but Overall I think it holds water, unless I'm really missing something lol

@krystofmraz

2 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't say it's about horse. Amount of armour is what's important and also battle tactics. More loose formation is better for strapped shield. Center grip requires you to move more which is not possible in close ranks.

@seanpoore2428

2 жыл бұрын

@@krystofmraz Roman legions And classical Greek phalanxes would disagree with your assessment

@krystofmraz

2 жыл бұрын

@@seanpoore2428 no they wouldn't. Hoplon is strapped since hoplites were heavy infantry fighting in close formation. Roman legions were equally armoured but usually they used spread formations and relied on throwing weapons a lot.

That targe is a beautiful piece of work!

Glad to see this because I have been thinking about it lately. I have a cheap home crafted buckler with a center grip strap, no boss and a bit of soft foam glued to it, to rest my knuckles while holding the strap. The strap can be tighten across my palm so I don't have to grip as much, I would still wear a glove for the pressure.

Idk how historical it is, but I thought of adding a steel layer between the shield planks and the forearm padding on a strap shield. Instead of an external boss, this would be an internal plate. You wouldn't need the entire shield to have the added weight. Just adding the internal plate for the forearm itself could be very beneficial. I also don't know if the internal plate would need to be as thick as an external boss. With a plate, an opponent's strike would be partially absorbed by the boards first, so the plate would only need to be strong enough for the residual energy that might pass through the boards. Even if you went with boss-gauge steel for the plate, it might end up only being the same size as the boss, before the boss was hammered out into the familiar dome shape. It would be the steel plate that a boss starts its life out as, without being worked into shape.

@Rolepgeek

2 жыл бұрын

At that point why not just armor the forearm directly with bracer/gauntlet?

@texasbeast239

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rolepgeek Good Q. I suppose a plate might also reinforce the shield so it lasted a little longer. (I've seen many wooden plank shield look warped and flimsy after gluing, until the grip bar was added to the back, at which point the shields straightened themselves right out, which makes the grip bar act almost as a sort of backbone.) Without a plate, the enemy's strike could come right through the wood, and while your bracer would protect you, your shield would become toast,far sooner. Why let your shield easily fall apart and only have metal plate on your body? Build your shield a little more sturdily, and it might last ye through multiple battles, with repairs extending that life even longer.

@EphemeralTao

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rolepgeek Because then you're still dealing with arrow and narrow blade (eg. estoc) penetration; which can either punch through far enough to reach the body, or if not, still far enough to cause problems with shield handling. With a wooden shield backed by a metal plate, penetration would be greatly reduced. Wood/leather backed with a thin metal plate seems like it would be an effective compromise between the protection of a metal shield, and the lighter weight of a wood/leather shield; but would also be a more labour- and materials-intensive construction method. The one really big problem I can see, is that for such a construction to be truly effective, the metal plate would need to be a very high grade of steel, at which point I'm not sure you'd be saving much in weight compared to an all-metal shield of the same quality steel, possibly with a simple hardened-leather outside cover. I think that would accomplish a better level of protection, while still saving considerable weight, without the need for the complexities of including wood in the construction.

For usage I like the strapped sheild. I find I can manipulate my opponents weapon easier. The hand held designs tends to wobble during hard strokes. Great video and solid points made for both designs.

Fascinating video. Really enjoyed it.

I was hoping you would do a video on this topic. Nice

Love your videos, keep up the great content!

As someone who loves sword and board style combat in any RPGs or any games that allow for it I always wondered which of these were more effective if any. I personally love the style of Heater and Kite shields and even some greatshields so this will be a fun watch.

On "wearing a shield as a backpack", there apparently were *guige* straps for precisely that purpose. These longer straps on the back of the shield enabled it to be worn slung across the back for transportation - clearly not for use in battle when you would need your shield in front of you.

Finally ive been waiting for this video for years

Cool video, more stuff on shields please!

There's a great video with Roland Warzecha (he has his own KZread channel), where he made a presentation on fighting with a shield, and arguing that center controlled shields aren't inferior, they were just used differently. Most of his demonstration was about Viking age shields and weapons, but it's applicable to other shield fighting as well, since for most of human history round center controlled shields were incredibly common. It's one of the best videos I've seen demonstrating how smart and ingenious ancient peoples were. Here's a short video on it (remove the spaces): www. youtube. com/watch?v=eNhMpiTSRFA Here's the full presentation (remove the spaces): www. youtube. com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc I highly recommend watching the full version as he expands on shield use a lot, and theorizes on why they were constructed the way they were. I'll attempt to explain a single portion with words what he eloquently showed in his video. Back in the day when center controlled shields were the only type used, the combatants would try to get into advantageous positions with their shields, pushing in and changing the shield orientation where both their shield and the enemy's shield protected them, but opened a vulnerability in the enemy, allowing them to strike. There were several ways to do this, since both shields would act as a fulcrum at the center, and each combatant would hold the shield in their left hand and sword in the right. For example, you could push in with your shield, with the inner edge of your shield (normally facing your sword) facing toward the enemy's shield, and hit the enemy's shield on the inner side (the part closest to their sword), which would turn both your shield and the enemy's shield to protect your left side (the only side the enemy could offend with his sword), and open a vulnerability in your opponent's left side which you could hit with your sword. The only way for the enemy to protect himself, since the shields are locked together at that point, is to back up. There were other more complicated ways to open vulnerabilities that worked with the sword as well.

@sethdusith6093

2 жыл бұрын

That is all speculation. That is one issue, The second is his school stopped sparring with others to test these techniques out.

@mnk9073

2 жыл бұрын

Roland's theories are "interesting". He may be right about certain points but oh boy is there controversy on so many others...

@eamonnholland5343

2 жыл бұрын

@@sethdusith6093 Are you suggesting that his school must spar with others to properly test theories, or that they stopped sparring with others to coddle their theories? You criticize him for speculation, but speculate yourself. His speculations and arguments make much more sense, as they're based on logic, anatomy and physics, evidence from the treatises, and with how the shields and weapons were designed.

@eamonnholland5343

2 жыл бұрын

@@mnk9073 I haven't heard this. What controversy surrounds other points made by Roland Warzecha? Would you mind explaining?

@mnk9073

2 жыл бұрын

@@eamonnholland5343 His interpretation of I.33 which is pretty much solely focused on the bind (which he claims to be the universal truth) and disregards all other similar manuals for one. There's a lot more but I won't bore you with it. Let me put it like this: Remember all those grand masters of Martial Art X who got floored by some MMA dude within 2 seconds? Roland is essentially on the fast track to THAT.

been waiting for this one

Nice editing and nice content. Works for me, an occasional watcher.

It would be so interesting if you bring along with this kind of content, some sparring videos, they are so good to watch, like, telling about some technics and tring to use in the sparring

Depends on context. *Matt Easton intensifies*

That's a lot of factors to consider! I definitely prefer the small center gripped shield.

Awesome video!

Being a HEMA practitioner who enjoys fighting sword and buckler, I will fight against fellow HEMAists with long sword, I would agree a two handed can push through a buckler, however the ability to be more mobile using sword and buckler can give the benefit to get through their range, would be interested to see your take more on this sort of fight :)

Absolutely great topic. Makes me remember the trash can lid until one of the bigger guys hits it with something hard. Even today a shield is still useful. Just have to change what a shield needs to look like. A backpack with bullet proof armor is still a shield.

3:00 This is what shield straps are for. They're depicted often in period art with men sometimes even leaving their shield dangling from the strap in front of them while they two-hand a spear.

My favorite shield back when I fought regularly was a strapped shield with a false boss riveted to the front as a sword breaker. Only 'broke' one sword, but sure bent several.

Thank you so much for pointing out how a forearm strapped shield can be twisted to create a joint lock. It had occurred to me, but I'd not been able to verify that as a legit technique.

Nice analysis. Something the center grip style, I suspect, is more readily capable of is use in a shield wall.

i prefer the center grip shield. i like the flexibility and balance, plus being left handed its easier for me to make. also as a romaboo and a norsaboo i like the centergrips of the times

One thing I kinda felt kinda got addressed but not really given a chance to be fully discussed is that you can blast through a center grip much easier than a strapped shield. Like if you in particular thrust jar you can get the shield to pivot and potentially get a lethal blow if they can’t successfully parry you.

Skall may have just talked me into beard products..... Apparently he's also an effective salesman.

@aleisterlavey9716

2 жыл бұрын

If I would make videos, I would only say "This Company gives me Money. Buy their Stuff."

I would think the most important difference would be the metal boss. Since one of the most important things about shields is their ability to protect against arrows, but arrows can still penetrate shields. So having a large amount of shield surface area in direct contact with the forearm means; blocking an arrow anywhere in that area has serious risks associated with it. The boss entirely negates those risks. Granted, both shield types “can” use a boss, it is mandatory on a center-grip, whereas it’s an optional feature on a strapped shield. So I think it’s worth mentioning.

@gavaudan2131

2 жыл бұрын

Even with a boss though the strapped shield has your whole forearm resting against it, so arrows can still hit you

On resting, your targe has a couple of D-rings (for a strap?), and you could easily put one on to the center grip shield and - assuming it's small and light enough a shield, obviously - a matching hook could be attached to clothing/belt/armour to just hang it there where you give your arm and fingies a quick stretch out.

An interesting exception the center-grip shields needing a boss to protect the hand is the Ishilangu or Nguni shield, which is an oval shield made from hide with a center grip, but a more or less flat surface. It also has two spike-like protrusions on the top and bottom which could be used to catch and manipulate an enemies weapon.

I'm gonna refer to sword and shield as sword and board from now until the end of time. Thank you for enlightening me yet again you beautiful man.

Great video. Personally I prefer centre grip. It allows for more offensive manoeuvrers like bashing your opponent with the flat of the shield. I also use an adjustable strap for carrying it on my back when I swing my dane axe.

The I.33 manual shows how you can use the center grip buckler in ways that can't be done with the strap shield. I think the center grip is better for small shields and the strap for larger ones.

An advantage of the centre grip shield is that if you hold it at arm's length, it will provide a bigger cone of protection against missile fire, a bit like a goal keeper moving forward to narrow the angles. My view of the Viking sword hilt, and the earlier Roman gladius hilt is that it was as compact as possible to stop it catching on the edge of your own shield. You would fight with your sword held back behind the cover of the shield, then thrust it forward when the opportunity arose. A mediaeval-stye cross guard might foul the edge of your won shield.

nice video, well done

Oh, balm! That's a relief.

In school i made a metal shield with the straps as the handle, i also made a much crappier aluminum teardrop shield with the center grip, there was a third shield i had been working on that was going to have my families heraldry on it but i didnt get to finish it and wasnt able to bring it home with me lile i had with the first two

I have always wondered this but didn't know how to word the question.

I've done boffing and what I have noticed about center grip shields is that using them feel way more heavy and exhaustive, but you can keep them further from yourself which gives you more protection (just how the angles work). when someone hits the edge it will rotate and expose you, not much you can do about it.

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

boffer weaponry is much lighter than "normal" which gives it its own characteristics. you're right about the perceived effort difference between a center grip and a strapped shield, though. the strapped shield loads your arm more at the elbow whereas the center grip puts it at your hand. more mass and a good shape on the center grip makes it more resistant to "tabling" than your boffer shield seems to have had, though.

@tormendor8585

2 жыл бұрын

@@kenbrown2808 well im usually up against 4-5 meter long spears in formation so they kindof overpower the shield grip, forgot to say that xD But the strapped ones can take hits pretty good from those spears. The boffer shields weigh about 2,5kg and are 100cm in diameter. The weapons themselves are super light (a sword of 110cm total length weighs around 350-400 grams) The equipment are based on "Sotahuuto" rules.

@kenbrown2808

2 жыл бұрын

@@tormendor8585 that's when happiness is a warm scutem.

Last week I got to examine one of the Omani Zanzibaran shields I've mentioned in prior comments. 2 cm thick at the edge, almost 15 cm space between the handle and the boss, and with concentric rings running all down the cone it's a truly strange buckler design and I love it. So for the moment at least I'm all about centre grip shields I suppose.

The biggest thing with center grip shields is a lot like fencing with a pistol grip. The angle and orientation of your hand is super relevant. You've got a position the shield be to be strong in the direction you need strength. This is to say imagine an imaginary line through the shield drawn through the axis of the grip. That's where you're strong That's what you have to use to block relatively heavier incoming strikes.

regarding carrying the shield on the back, I don't think they would have a separate strap for that, maybe even one that can be removed if really get in the way. But I think that a extra larger strap that you could adjust the size wouldn't be a problem.

Ever since I started playing Dark Souls yeeeaaars ago, I always wondered what the difference was with shields in this reguard. Many thanks, good sir!

Skallagrim, another fun thing you can do with the strapped shield, is shoot a bow while holding it. If you place the arrow on the right side of the bow, and use an Asiatic thumb draw (if the shield has a relatively thin) handle grip, I can quite comfortably shoot my Asiatic bows, while also holding my targe. Functionally it provides very little difference from shooting normally, and if I were trading arrows against other skirmishers, I would very happily take the minor inconvenience in exchange, not to mention the shield is now already in hand if I need to drop the bow and engage in hand to hand.

Epic Beardmen waving swords and shields!

I think a significant factor between strapped vs center carry shield would be in formations. A strapped shield wants to be slightly to the side, while a center carry can be held straight in front of you (Or above, if we think about things like Phalanx formations and other formations trying to protect against arrowfire). Add on to this, a center grip shield allows a greater amount of movement without moving the shield itself (As you have your elbow to buffer your movement) which can allow you to put more weight into spear thrusts past the shield without compromising a shield wall.

I love the pros and cons list for these, because you see a lot of stuff like- Strap pros: more leverage strap cons: more leverage boss pros: less leverage boss cons: less leverage

I know you touched on the idea of having more clearance behind the shield if you catch an arrow, but another point that goes to the center grip shield is that you have the option of holding it out further from your body rather than being forced to keep it tucked close to your side. A smaller shield held further away from the body can provide the same amount of effective cover as a larger shield held closer to the body, and gives you more range with which to parry incoming strikes which would make it a slightly less predictable means of defense.

Are you going to be commenting on The Northman?? I watched it last night and it's incredible!! But it'd interesting to hear you're thoughts on the accuracy of weapons, combat, tactics etc👍

I feel like if the opponent tries to do grappling techniques like ones you demonstrated, I could just bash push them with the shield, which is a lot more powerful with the strapped,because one can easily put their entire weight into it as opposed to center grip.

When the lead grip is closer to the lead sheild edge on a strapped shield shooting a bow/bracing a spear becomes easier I have found for what it's worth.. thanks for another video